Open mike 27/08/2016
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6:00 am, August 27th, 2016 - 58 comments
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Cheers, CV. I’m glad you see some value in my argument.
I think giving a commenter a reasonable time to either back their statements or withdraw them is good moderation. I appreciate that Xanthe actually made an effort to find something (though it was just from an Assange fanboi site). Unfortunately, you’ve censored his or her efforts.
When they pop up next, presumably on open mike, I’m going to repeat the comment above and see if they get the point. If they do, there won’t be a ban.
Oh how very gracious of you TRP.
You’re going to keep playing your cat and mouse games then? Let it go TRP. You’ve had enough little power tripping jollies for a day.
TRP
Your apology?
[Still waiting for you to supply evidence to back your claim. If you don’t have it, say so. I’m in a cheerful mood this morning, and I’m happy to explain my thinking once you either provide evidence or confirm you can’t do so. TRP]
I posted link to transcript of the original police interviews .
Perhaps it would be more appropriate if you did not continue to discuss as moderator. You have misrepresented me!
You need to stop abusing your position and go an become informed
There is a huge trove of original source documentation at
Justice4assange.com avail yourself of it before you return here
[Yes, you did post that link, Xanthe. Unfortunately it was censored by CV.
However, good attempt though it was, I did ask you not to just link to Assange fan sites. NNN and J4A fall into that category. What we are looking for the two complainant’s words, not the words of third parties. You’ve made a very specific claim and if it was true, there would be clear evidence, not least because Assange supporters would be repeating it at every opportunity.
As I mentioned earlier, at least one of the women is apparently very keen to have her story told in court. That suggests you really have got this wrong.
You might also consider whether or not it makes a blind bit of difference anyway. There are plenty of victims of crime who don’t know what the crime’s called, or don’t even know that it’s a crime at all. There are others who, out of fear or shame, don’t want the crime prosecuted. That doesn’t mean the Police shouldn’t do their job anyway.
So, if you’re prepared to accept that your claim cannot be substantiated, I’m happy to drop it.
If you want to insist your claim is true, post some evidence that comes directly from both women. TRP]
My specific claim was …. check carefully before you reply!
[And my careful checked reply is that you’re welcome back on Oct. 1st. TRP]
Xanthe was wrong – dead wrong in the assertion they made. That can be pointed out quite easily by reasoned argument and I think some people did that on the thread at the time. The thread is gone and the discussion finished (thankfully) and I can’t see what’s to be gained by the flogging of dead horses trp.
There are dodgy and unsubstantiated opinions on a number of topics all over the site. That’s the nature of the beast. A link was asked for. A link was given. If the link is problematic (and that was pointed out) then the opinion’s undermined and the matter’s as good as dead and buried.
Sometimes poking at stuff just brings up unpleasant odours y’know? Not worth it.
And fuck it. The weather’s crap and it would be nice if commentary didn’t mirror the elements.
Cheers, Bill. I agree for the most part. However, it’s reasonable to ask commenters to substantiate claims (it’s covered in the rules). Xanthe has the choice of either providing evidence (which can’t be done) or backing down. I’m off to work now and I’ll check back later in the morning to see what decision Xanthe’s made.
It’s reasonable. And for most people who were following that conversation, I’d guess that Xanthes link wasn’t considered to be up to the mark. shrug
But hey, that’s what they’ve got and that’s that.
Others (me, you and who-ever) can read and evaluate stuff and adopt or change a position off the back of that.
Peeps can’t be “bashed into line” and opinions won’t disappear or change just because some proponent of any given opinion is being given a hard time. More often than not, that just results in entrenchment.
An opinion is aired. It gets challenged and is found wanting. And that’s that.
I’ll put it like this. If there are people in a room and someone in the room believes in alien abductions, then whatever evidence or argument they may have for their existence can be challenged, and people can come away (presumably) essentially dismissing any notion of alien abductions. At that point, there’s no useful purpose served by carrying on or over into the realm of ‘confession’ whereby the believer in abductions is pressured to ‘recant’ or whatever.
1 The assertion I made was?
2 reasoned argument would be good
3 what is problematic about a link to original police interview transcript?
Xanthe, if you had any sense at all you’d have stayed away from commenting for a few days. TRP isn’t the type to let this kind of thing go. Inevitably, he’ll find some rationale to permaban you as I can guarantee that no link or document you post will be satisfactory or admissible in his books.
Thanks CV you are almost certainly right!
Unfortunatly sense and self+ preservation is possibly not my strongest area 🙂
Is there any form of moderator moderation?….. just asking
Sweet Jesus! Just be grateful y’all don’t live in the U.S.A.
“Fred on Everything : Milwaukee”
The world’s problems are coming here. Try to be kind and have some fun until they get here. We’ll all be killing each other soon enough.
Labour claim the Maori King’s assertion was incorrect.
Labour MP Peeni Henare says the Maori King has got it wrong about Andrew Little not wanting to work with the Maori Party.
Little has no recollection of ever saying he wouldn’t work with the Maori Party.
In fact, the Opposition even invested Parliament Library resources in trying to hunt down any hint of a comment, to no avail.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83588857/jo-moir-the-maori-king-has-nailed-his-colours-to-the-mast-by-shunning-labour
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83462254/maori-kings-claims-andrew-little-wont-work-with-maori-party-wrong-labour
Does anybody know if this has been put to the King?
Thus, has he now accepted he was incorrect? And has that resulted in him changing his stance against Labour?
Or is the King standing by his assertion? Moreover, now that it’s been brought into question, can he substantiate it?
You don’t try and build positive relationships by saying someone is wrong. Idiotic tactics IF you want it better, good tactic if you don’t care or have too much ego in it. I cant imagine it wasn’t thought through. Grow up labour and be smart in building relationships ffs
Hang on mm. Put yourself in Little’s place. He cannot remember saying what has been claimed he said. And unlike his counterpart the PM, he can be trusted to be telling the truth. Nevertheless Little’s staff have made an effort to ascertain whether he did say it which they have every right to do. Given the historically close ties with Maori through the Ratana Movement this is an important issue for Labour.
I don’t think the intention is to start a sparring match with the Maori King. Although there is every chance that is what Tuku Morgan is trying to do with Labour. There’s past baggage there… Tuku’s underpants n’all.
I don’t remember ever disagreeing with you before MM, but I do this time.
Kīngi Tūheitia made a claim about Andrew Little in a setting that ensured it would be widely publicised. He said that the reason he would not vote for Labour again was because of a something he claimed was said by Andrew Little. I think it is fair enough for Andrew Little and Peeni Henare to say that he was mistaken. This is about correcting the record, and not about ego IMO.
What has been asserted is pivotal to the King no longer supporting Labour. Therefore, if incorrect, it’s only right for Labour to point out the King has it wrong.
After all, positive relationships are built on honesty.
I’m answer to all above. “I am sorry the king feels this way and i am geateful to be able to reiterate that i and labour are more than happy to work with the Māori Party and Mana. My goal is to change this government because they are doing nothing for the poor and disadvantaged, they are doing nothing about the homeless, they are doing nothing for the overinflated housing crisis, they are doing nothing about the dirty drinking waters and the state of the environment. We will change this. Labour, the Greens, and any other party that believes in a country that looks after those who need help will change this.
Thanks for sharing those sentiments, Marty.
I’m sure Labour are also disappointed the King feels this way. However, if Little didn’t make the asserted comment, the burning question is how did this all come about?
Has the King been questioned on this? If so, what was his response (anybody)?
They can’t both be right. And the media seems to have been lacking when it comes to ascertaining who is.
They can both be right it happens all the time. The point isn’t how it all came about but why – obviously a breakdown in communication that the king has highlighted. This is an opportunity not a reason to find a scapegoat, someone to blame. Surely we can be wiser than before and get on with sorting out the issues instead of blaming.
“They can both be right“
No, either Little said it or he didn’t.
Therefore, if he didn’t, the question then becomes how did the King come to believe this is what Little said?
How did communications between the two become so broken-down that it resulted in this?
It’s a bit late trying to avoid the blame game. The King fired the first salvo when he entered into the political fray and openly blamed Little.
This is an opportunity to get to the truth of the matter. Thus, potentially opening the door for reconciliation.
“How did communications between the two become so broken-down that it resulted in this?”
It went via Tukoroirangi Morgan.
Or more to the point – that is what Tuku told the King.
And it would be interesting to know what else Tuku told the King.
This (link below) is an interesting read.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/opinion/opinion-maori-politics-now-a-game-of-thrones-2016082612
Dr Mike Joy ‘blows the whistle’ and exposes the ‘clean, green, 100% pure New Zealand’ myth and mantra – FIVE years ago?
Remember this?
http://pundit.co.nz/content/mike-joy-answers-the-pm-with-hard-facts
Mike Joy answers the PM, with hard facts
by Claire Browning
Fresh water ecologist Dr Mike Joy responds to the Prime Minister’s ‘hardtalk’, debunking his bland assertions, and calling his advice “rubbish science”, that would fail a first-year student.
________________________
Penny Bright
2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
Minister says KiwiSaver concerns a matter for Police
The widening KiwiSaver scandal saw the Commerce Minister put the ball into Police’s court following the receipt of official advice that concluded laws banning controversial weapons applied to providers of the public savings scheme.
A Police spokesperson said they were aware of the issue and had begun asking questions.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11700839
However, a suggestion that KiwiSaver providers might have broken laws by investing in companies that make weapons has been dismissed by one financial law expert.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/83622970/no-laws-broken-by-kiwisaver-schemes-expert-says
Thoughts?
“Thoughts?” = Pomposity. That’s my thought.
+1 yep, it’s a comment killer
The precedent for Havelock Norths water incident in Canterbury
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/83457130/Poisoning-the-wells-a-history-of-infected-drinking-water-in-Canterbury
How long will we accept human greed over human health.
Mugabe orders arrest of all 31 members of Zimbabwe Olympic team for non-performance
I guess this is one motivational strategy.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-26/mugabe-orders-arrest-rats-we-call-athletes-after-zimbabwe-wins-no-olympic-medals
It wouldn’t be the first time that such a thing has happened.
Perhaps he got the idea from the Saddam Hussein in Iraq
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/feb/02/athletics.duncanmackay1
Alternatively he may be taking lessons from North Korea
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/fifa-probes-north-korea-world-cup-punishment-20100811-12018.html
I don’t think it is going to work though.
How about good ole Venezuela , highly likely he would have sliced the balls off the soccer team for non performance .
World class villain. Mugabe kicked all the white farmers out and cratered the economy, the farmers went to Zambia and revolutionised their productivity, now Mugabe thinks Zambia owes him something.
Well, I guess that’s what an Oxford education does to you (tongue in cheek…)
Perhaps we should start doing that with our cricket team. I see again that they have decided to be useless.
Wow ok
From the print version of the DomPost
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83509666/overhauling-new-zealand-journalism
Would you accept a small levy on all your media usage to fund independent journalism.?
Typical bludging left wingers, expecting everyone else to fund their life styles.
How about this for an idea chaps, stump up with your own money and start your own media business.
If people want to read your leftist news, your new business will be a raging success.
How’s this for an idea chap: the only way you can get elected is to lie, and you need a compliant media to lie effectively. So anything that fucks you over is good with me.
The standard bother boy and key board warrior strikes again, unfortunately soft as putty as usual
He’s not wrong though.
dirty politics doesn’t bother RWNJs, they shit on others for a living
I am surprised he is still here , he was threatening everyone after the last election that he was leaving in disgust , or he was organising a massed riot / uprising , neither has happened obviously .
If The Spinoff and Scoop can do it, so can others.
But BM my dirty disco champ ………….. right wing bludgers like John Shewan and the Aussie banks try and scam New Zealand for $2.2 Billion dollars and you never moan about or mention that …
Bernard Hickey: Banks’ tax dodging tantamount to theft
” the combined banks owe the Government and people of New Zealand about $2.25 billion.
Now I’m not just grumpy.
I’m furious. That is 10 hospitals or 100 schools or the entire budget deficit forecast for the year just finished.
If I stole that much money I would be public enemy number one and rightly so.”
….
************************************************
I’m beginning to suspect BM has double standards 😉
The fact that most New Zealanders are unaware that Shewan was at the center of an attempted $2.2 Billion bank dollar robbery demonstrates something wrong with our media….
One mans broken tax vehicles returned 100 years worth of total combined welfare benefit fraud recovery from ALL beneficiarys.
How was this not front page news at the time ????
It impressed the hell out of me ……. I bet John Shewan swings a hammer like John Key …… They may not be able to hammer a nail straight in soft pine ….but those two boys build things which blow billions out of Government revenues ……
They should have statues of them by Des Brittans carbon fiber super bike at Te Papa
Teach a rich man how to cheat and speculate ………. and BM will talk about the poor and fish
Don’t forget 1.6 billion for SCF too.
MSM Propaganda.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
Russia is bad.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701071
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/olympics/news/article.cfm?c_id=502&objectid=11701015
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/olympics/news/article.cfm?c_id=502&objectid=11700559
The Olympics are a sad joke keeping the flames of nationalism burning … I skipped them.
But Going back in time the New Zealand rugby union with their national government team mates helped stuff up the Montreal Olympics when 25 countries boycotted because we ( New Zealand ) were there …..
“The New Zealand controversy
At the 1976 Montreal Olympics New Zealand sparked a boycott. The African nations were angry that a New Zealand All Blacks rugby team was touring apartheid-era South Africa. The Africans wanted New Zealand banned from the Montreal Olympics.
Eventually 26 African countries, as well as Iraq and Guyana, boycotted Montreal over New Zealand’s rugby activities. The boycott had a significant effect in athletics, as Africans were among the world’s best at middle- and long-distance running.”
” it looked as if New Zealand was in support of the apartheid movement as when no other country had wanted to create sporting ties with South Africa New Zealand was creating rugbylinks. Due to this a lot of controversy came a bout worldwide”
“He said the decision by the IOC not to ban New Zealand would give “comfort and respectability to the South African racist regime and encourage it to continue to defy world opinion.”
“Athletics events will be particularly affected by the absence of Filbert Bayi from Tanzania, who holds the world record in the 1500m and John Akii-Bua of Uganda, world record-holder in the 400 metres hurdles.
The latest country to announce its withdrawal was Kenya.”
“The All Blacks’ decision to tour South Africa in 1976 – at the height of the racial apartheid era – happened in defiance of a United Nations’ call to halt all sporting competition with the nation until racial equality was reached.”
http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/82567562/New-Zealand-at-centre-of-Olympics-boycott
“The boycott had a major impact on the 1976 Olympics”……
One million Canadian dollars in seat and hotel reservations had to be refunded, according to the BBC, during the first two days of the games alone, as a result of the boycott.
A number of events were marred as well; the track meet was badly diminished by the absence of perennial powerhouses like Tanzania and Kenya. ,……”http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/the-olympics-used-to-be-so-politicized-that-most-of-africa-boycotted-in-1976/260831/
Test Trump.
/
Bornstein’s a dead ringer for Dr Brackish Okun from Independence Day. Watch that 31 second clip and the resemblance gets even stronger.
The letter reads like Trump wrote it himself
An astonishingly excellent letter.
edit: forgot the video
So that’s how you get to be doctor to the wealthy – spend as much time learning to imitate their language patterns as you do looking up their family history… or any history, for that matter.
heh
http://archive.is/EAtow
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/drinking-water-standards-2008-jun14.pdf
“….Since the publication of Drinking-water Standards for New Zealand 2000 the approach to managing drinking-water quality has changed.
The focus has moved from quality control to a broader approach of quality assurance.
This has been necessary due to changes in technology, an improvement in our scientific knowledge and the requirement to address a broader range of issues than previously covered.
The Health (Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2007 amended the Health Act 1956 to require all drinking-water suppliers providing water to more than 500 people to develop and start to implement a Public Health Risk Management Plan to guide the safe management of their supply before 2013.
A Public Health Risk Management Plan is a tool to help suppliers identify, manage and minimise events that could cause water quality to deteriorate. …”
So – where’s the ‘Water Safety Management Plan’ that was supposed to have been produced by the Hastings District Council and assessed by the Hawkes Bay DHB?
Penny Bright
2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
Hekia’s little lie about a special education association
https://saveourschoolsnz.com/2016/08/27/lies-hekia-parata-fabricates-a-special-education-association/
They could be one of the new flying squads that helped the Salvation Army …. oh no hang on ……. that was Paula telling lies http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/306028/national%27s-brawlers-flex-their-muscles
Words can have many or any meanings from the Nacts…. so they are not really telling lies when not meaning what it appears they are saying
Association obviously now means anything Hekia chooses to associate with that word …….
Know that and a lie becomes the truth
Another good example is ‘ GST regime’ has been subtly changed …..to now actually mean Global Shadow Transactions regime …..
So Key was telling the truth recently about Shewan and Brash going to the Bahamas