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Open Mike 28/01/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 28th, 2019 - 87 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

87 comments on “Open Mike 28/01/2019 ”

  1. marty mars 1

    Time to change our relationships to our waterways.

    “Fish & Game commissioned the nationwide poll which was conducted in early December by Colmar Brunton.

    About 82 percent of respondents said they would support a move to introduce mandatory environmental standards for New Zealand’s waterways, even if it meant regulating intensive farming.

    Support is stronger among people who are very concerned about the pollution of rivers and lakes, with nine out of ten supporting tougher rules.

    Fish & Game chief executive Martin Taylor said local authorities had for too long allowed intensive farms to become established in unsuitable areas, and then protected them at the expense of the environment.”

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/381064/new-zealanders-want-tougher-protections-for-waterways

    The day of reckoning is coming for uncaring polluters.

    • rata 1.1

      7 billion people.
      Enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world a thousand times.
      Trillions of litres of chemicals in the air in the water in the land.
      I wonder by the end of this century if living out doors will still be possible
      or if the survivors will be in sealed in bubbles.

    • Robert Guyton 1.2

      Many of those contributing to the degradation of rivers through their farming practices might be caring, unwitting, reluctant, unable to do otherwise. But those uncaring ones, they deserve a reckoning.

    • Gosman 1.3

      Most people live in the Cities so won’t be impacted by any tough new regulations. It is easy to call for this when it isn’t your livelihood that is directly impacted.

      • rata 1.3.1

        There are much tougher regulations in urban areas too.
        Farmers have had it too easy too long.
        Either comply or sell the land to someone who will comply.

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    I just heard Vernon Tava on Morning Report, interviewed about his initiative for a new green party. He said it has to be genuinely centrist. That’s reassuring. He didn’t use the bluegreen framing. In fact, he explained that he hadn’t canvassed the idea with any other National MPs.

    That’s a puzzle! It suggests the Nats view their brand as captive and want to keep it in-house. It also suggests tacit thinking: their bluegreen MPs are dogs who need to be kept in their kennels, rather than be allowed to roam freely in public.

    This all paints a picture in which establishment politics has successfully marginalised both political wings of the Green movement. Since the public, as revealed in the new poll, is 80% behind authentic environmentalism, the political arena is wide open for centrist political representation.

    Vernon reckons the time is right. People seem to feel the same, but we ought not to discount the gate-keeper effect of MMP. Getting a new party through the gate already clogged up with other parties can only succeed if voters see it as a better option and switch their support. One leader can’t achieve that result: authenticity requires a genuine convergence of political activists from the margins. No sign of that yet.

    • Gosman 2.1

      I would be tempted to support a Blue-Green party if they genuinely searched for market based solutions to environmental issues.

      • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

        Bit like searching for an oasis in the desert, eh? There, alright, but always real hard to find. If it was easy, environmental problems wouldn’t persist.

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.2

        “market based solutions to environmental issues.”
        Can you give an example of one such solution, Gosman?

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.2.1

          Gosman?

        • greywarshark 2.1.2.2

          Robert G
          As a non-market solution to trees needing water in a drought, I have a street tree with tap root apparently – liquidamber, with a lot of grass around it, and also a decorative plum prunus cerasifera nigra I think.
          Now would it be good and useful to the tree to carry a 10 litre bucket of water and splash it round about 1 metre from the trunk each day? It’s been dry here for a while and the recent high winds have been getting warmer.

          If I just did the above daily would that help the trees or would I be wasting my time?

          • Robert Guyton 2.1.2.2.1

            Hi Greywarshark. How big/old are the trees? If they are young (1 or 2 years) then hand-watering is a good option. Often the grass will be affecting the availability of water and nutrient to the tree, so carefully (no weed-whackers, ever!) removing the live grass will help – lay it down as mulch. If the tree is well established and showing signs of stress from drought, the chances of saving it with buckets of water are reduced, but you’ll probably enjoy the activity anyway and it could help. Often, amenity trees are poorly planted and have distorted roots, so it’s difficult to really know what’s going on down there.

            • Gosman 2.1.2.2.1.1

              Or the tree should be left to die and the precious water used for something more appropriate. Not all tress are good in every location they exist.

              • Brigid

                And still the administrators of this blog allow gosman to continue to troll.
                Why is that te reo putake, LPrent?

                After all te reo putake, you set a precedent with banning Ed you know.

                • Gosman

                  Why is that a Troll? That is a valid environmental question. If you have a scarce resource such as water you have to make decisions on the best use of it. In some circumstances giving it to a tree might not make sense.

                • Bearded Git

                  +10000000 the market based Green Party comment is worth a year long ban…trolling par excellence

                  • veutoviper

                    Why?

                    Is Gosman breaking the Rules as set out in the “Policy” for TS?

                    Or is he actually within the Rules in putting up “dissenting views” and participating in “reasonably rational debate between dissenting viewpoints”?

                    IE “We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views. But this site run for reasonably rational debate between dissenting viewpoints and we intend to keep it operating that way.”

                    Is Gosman making “pointless personal attacks”, or commenting in a “tone or language that has the effect of excluding others”?

                    IE “What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others.”

                    Is Gosman continuing a flame war “where there is little discussion or debate”?

                    IE “We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate.”

                    Is Gosman making assertions that he/she is unable to substantiate with some proof?

                    Is Gosman unable/refusing to argue when requested to do so?

                    IE “We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate. This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so”

                    Hint – what about Gosman’s comment at 2.1.2.3 below.

                    Now I don’t often agree with Gosman’s comments, but my perceptions/opinion of his behaviour here is that, for the most part, Gosman actually complies with the TS rules above – much more so that the (many) commenters who have and continue to:

                    — Call for Gosman to be him banned ( “using language that has the effect of excluding others”)

                    — Make personal attacks, derogatory or snide personal remarks about him/her, attack the messenger not the message (“pointless personal attacks”).

                    etc, etc.

            • greywarshark 2.1.2.2.1.2

              Ta I’ll give it a try Robert. The amenity tree liquidamber, is large well established growing on a berm, swale-style. The prunus is old but lovely, so will take out the yarrow that I mistakenly planted, I don’t want more large roots to go with the bindweed, what a dope I am. That should give the old lady a bit of a boost.

        • Gosman 2.1.2.3

          https://www.edf.org/approach/markets

          “Case study: acid rain
          Problem: Sulfur dioxide from coal-fired power plants was creating harmful acid rain several decades ago. Traditional regulation would have simply directed every plant owner to cut pollution by a specific amount in a specific way, an expensive and often ineffective solution.

          Solution: Our experts proposed a cap-and-trade approach that required overall sulfur emissions be cut in half, but would let each company decide how to do it. Power plants that cut their pollution more than required could sell the extra allowances.

          Outcome: Cap and trade was so effective and affordable that The Economist magazine called it the “greatest green success story of the decade.”

        • NZJester 2.1.2.4

          The Right loves talking about the so-called free market. While on paper this utopia of the free market system seems to make sense in the real world it does not.
          A free market in order to work as they claim it should requires all those involved to deal fairly with each other and everyone to have equal negotiation power. However, in the real world, it falls over very fast as greedy people always find ways to manipulate the market in their favor.
          Some business people who claim to be for the free market, for example, use their power to force workers to take crappy deals to keep their jobs and when they attempt to unionize to give them equal negotiating power to get their fair market share of the profits they are suddenly no longer for a free and fair market and try and break the unions.
          The current non-free market cannot find a solution to solving environmental issues as it would require the greedy to spend a tiny bit of their profits to prevent pollution.
          There are a lot of solutions out there right now that will work, but because they require extra money to be spent they choose to ignore them.

      • John irving 2.1.3

        That’s easy enough. Simply charge polluters for the cost of cleaning up just as was done with SOX/NOX emissions in the 1980s

    • xanthe 2.2

      Any political party genuinely interested in environmemtal sustainability would be fabulous,

      • Robert Guyton 2.2.1

        Fabulous: having no basis in reality; mythical.
        “fabulous creatures”
        synonyms: mythical, legendary, mythic, mythological, fabled, folkloric, fairy-tale, heroic, traditional; More

        • Morrissey 2.2.1.1

          He hasn’t a clue, Robert. You’re wasting your time trying to argue in good faith with him.

          • Brigid 2.2.1.1.1

            Have you listened to this Morrissey?
            It’s an excellent interview with Laith Marouf by Eva Bartlett on the history and current state in the Middle East. Particularly how the Kurds got to be Syrian citizens.

            Gosman don’t listen to this, it’s way beyond your intellect.

        • xanthe 2.2.1.2

          Thanks robert , looks like “fabulous” is the correct word then at this time. Altho i think i intended “welcome”

      • SaveNZ 2.2.2

        Yes but the Maori party sounded great at the time, but sadly hijacked for a “seat at the table” mentality. Now Maori seem worse off in terms of homelessness and wages and conditions post the near decade of support the Maori party gave to the Natz, which also destroyed and divided the Maori/party in reality as well.

        The party The Maori party most served was the National party, it helped take down the Mana party which was a lot more focused on raising poverty standards and genuine treaty issues for Maori.

        I’d say the Green Party are already too close to the National party, and it’s taking down their voter support along with their tenancy to go woke left as well as intentionally or unintentionally supporting the right, so I don’t necessarily think that another Green Party allied to the Natz is going to help the environment, more like have an outcome like the Maori party.

        • Bearded Git 2.2.2.1

          Well when you have an idiot as a leader (Fox) who supports screwing up the RMA what chance do u have?

    • rata 2.3

      The biggest 3rd party can often play Queen maker
      so well worth the Greens looking to add to it’s vote.
      Green/Red, Green/Blue, Green/Old Fartz NZF, Green/Brown, or Green /young?
      Do the research, get the stats find two photogenic articulate spin doctors
      and hit the hustings I mean FB,Snap Chat and E-Mail.
      Don’t forget to tick, share,and subscribe.

  3. Robert Guyton 3

    Idiot/Savant looks at the issue of an “astroturf” party.:

    “National has no friends, leaving them with an obvious problem in the MMP coalition game next election. Their solution? To simply create one:

    The problem: if they do, then its a clear signal that the party isn’t really green. Because National’s policies of supporting the dairy, oil and trucking industries, sucking the rivers dry, and dragging their feet on climate change in the name of “balance” with economic growth are inherently anti-environment, and any environmentally-minded voter can see that. Which makes their “BlueGreen” astroturf idea laughable – the only people it convinces are people who don’t understand environmental issues at all. But like Colin Craig, Kim Dotcom and Gareth Morgan, they probably think they can simply throw money at the problem and buy the votes they need, with a fallback of hoping to buy enough votes away from the actual Green Party to drive them out of Parliament – a deeply undemocratic goal. But unlike National, I think environmentally-minded voters are smart enough not to fall for it.”

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/01/an-astroturf-party.html

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1

      I suspect it will mostly grab existing NAct voters – certainly won’t take many Green voters.

      Plus maybe a few rightish Labour voters – this is probably the biggest risk to a left-side coalition.

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        Are you stating that there are not Green voters who would be swayed by a political party willing to work across the political divide to solve environmental problems?

        • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1

          There are very few Green voters who won’t be able to see straight through a green-painted puppet of the National Party.

          • Gosman 3.1.1.1.1

            The trouble is you would think ANY political party willing to work with National is a puppet. Take off your ideological blinkers for one second and try and look at the situation with the minimal of bias.

            • Sabine 3.1.1.1.1.1

              How many parties that worked with National are still alive and kicking?

              so like a child the National party uses others for play time and when broken goes to find a new toy.

              So yeah, generally speaking any Party willing to work with National, especially one created to work with National, is a Puppet.

              • Gosman

                The same can be stated for Labour. Where is the Alliance? Where is United Future (a Labour partner as much as National). NZ First disappeared from Parliament after the last time it was in coalition with Labour. Look what is happening to The Greens now.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.2

        I wonder how they’ll respond to challenges over any policies or principles they might profess. Environmentalists are well practiced at arguing these issues, centrists and right wingers, not so much, beyond their narrow range. “Off-setting” would be a good example.

        • Gosman 3.1.2.1

          How is “Off-setting” a good example?

          • Robert Guyton 3.1.2.1.1

            A good example of the Right’s approach to conserving natural taonga. Turn it into money, wreck it, buy something somewhere else that fits your own model of what’s valuable.

            • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1.1

              You haven’t explained how “Off-setting” is bad beyond your emotive dislike of it. I have yet to see anybody argue that “Off-setting” should be used in all circumstances to deal with every environmental concern. It is merely one of multiple tools that could be employed. I am pretty sure you don’t have an issue with the principle behind it either.

              • Robert Guyton

                Gosman – what is it about my explanation for the failings of the off-set model described at 10:14 don’t you understand to be bad? My dislike of it, is not based on emotion; I’ve had close associations with the process and weighed up the reality of it carefully. It’s typical of the Right’s approach to environmental management and it’s a fail, imo.

                • Gosman

                  You have not explained why. You objection does seem to be based purely on your emotional dislike of the ideology behind it rather than whether it works or not. If it was based on some actual facts showing that it doesn’t work (i.e. it makes the overall environmental problem worse) then you have a valid argument against it.

                  • Robert Guyton

                    My argument is, Gosman, that something like a pristine river can be damned/dammed if the dammers pay for the creation of a kiwi sanctuary elsewhere. That is, the river is lost. Gone. Environmental loss, right there. Not emotive, actual.

                    • Gosman

                      Where is this proposal to build a Kiwi sanctuary to enable a river to have a dam to be built on it? That generally is not how a proper “Off-setting” scheme works anyway.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      “something like” was to indicate a theoretical example.
                      What is your understanding of “off setting” Gosman?
                      In any case, off setting, as proposed by Right wingers, is just one of many examples where the Right ideology (everything has a price!) exemplifies the narrow range the Right makes decisions from on environmental matters – my original claim.

          • Bearded Git 3.1.2.1.2

            troll

      • james 3.1.3

        You could be very wrong there.

        You wont get the far left nutters, but you will get some of the more rational people who like to vote for the enviornment.

        When you are just hovering above 5% you wouldn’t want to lose many.

        esp with NZ first under 5%.

        Hell – Labour could lose all their friends after just one term.

        • McFlock 3.1.3.1

          And national could split itself apart into two ~20% parties.

          Two can play “coulds”.

          • Dennis Frank 3.1.3.1.1

            Yes, that possibility is what will be deterring those in the know. If their market research has established the likelihood. From a design perspective, they have to ensure the split is more like 35:10.

            That was implied in my suggestion re Bridges & Nat caucus endorsement. They ought to brainstorm the design then create consensus. Just enough front-people to pull the bluegreens over the threshold, up to a comfortable margin. At least two sitting MPs with centrist street cred and safe seats should suffice.

    • Dennis Frank 3.2

      He’s not the only one to get it wrong. Here’s what the bomber thinks: “There’s no actual electorate here for Blue Greens so getting to 5% is a total pipe dream.” https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/01/27/vernon-tava-blue-green-fantasy-shows-how-desperate-national-are-becoming/

      But Tava is not actually proclaiming the bluegreen brand. Leftist misrepresentation is a ruse to lead observers astray.

      “Blue Greens will fail to get any electorate traction at all and I support National wasting energy on this bullshit as it will only eat into National’s voter base without any representation.” Bridges hasn’t endorsed use of the bluegreen brand, has he? Bradbury’s kool-aid intake must’ve gone over the limit.

      “The only purpose for running Blue Greens is as a spoiler to the actual Greens who will face a strong challenge again from TOP and with the additional syphoning off by Blue Greens would see the Greens slip beneath 5%.”

      Now there he actually makes a very good point. Splitting the centrist vote defeats the centrist cause, so both tribes within the GP could lose big.

      And “global warming and the catastrophes it’s bringing will demand radical policy responses”. True. Does this mean the GP will go radical? Of course not. Democracy will always marginalise radicals. That’s why it’s a prescription for disaster.

    • Andre 3.3

      I suspect there probably is room for a socially and economically centrist, environmentally focused party. I’m aware of more than a few voters that can relate to the likes of Kennedy Graham and David Clendon, but can’t swallow the idea of voting for a party whose public profile is as much about reclaiming the c-word or promoting the crap Sue Kedgley was into, as it is about environmental issues.

      These are people that enjoy spending time in the outdoors, can see and are distressed by the damage currently being done and want to turn it around. Sneering comments like ” … don’t understand environmental issues at all” simply provokes a ‘fuck you very much’ in return.

  4. Robert Guyton 4

    “These are people that enjoy spending time in the outdoors, can see and are distressed by the damage currently being done and want to turn it around”
    Farmers? Operators of earth moving machinery? Hunters?

  5. Ad 5

    Listening to Minister Mahuta on RNZ drone on about water industry and regulation reform, looks like the most she will achieve in a term is slightly stronger drinking water standards some time after the election – once she puts up her Cabinet paper mid this year.

    In reality there will be nothing that gets the critical issues of
    – water and wastewater pricing regulation,
    – system amalgamation, state capex subsidy, or
    – the kind of either regulatory approach to networks seen in the Electricity Authority over our electricity generators, or
    – the full core+subsidy approach that extends over the New Zealand land transport network through NZTA.

    Nothing from Mahuta this morning told us we will see effective action about water.

    The weakness in this cabinet to regulate is pretty apparent in water.

  6. ianmac 6

    “National leader Simon Bridges says he retains confidence in Invercargill MP Sarah Dowie and she won’t be stood down, despite a police investigation into a message sent from her phone to Jami-Lee Ross.

    But he said he does not condone her behaviour, in relation to the text in question.”

    Tells us two things:
    Bridges is a weak leader who would have demanded a “stand down” at least, if it was the other way round.
    That Dowie did send the message.

    • Bridges is an appaling poitical operator imo. He is wrecking the gnats, just him. Funny as hell.

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        Paula’s warming up her engines as we speak.

        • OnceWasTim 6.1.1.1

          The engines are currently idling on an eco-friendly fuel mix of botulinum and ethanol produced from a load of rotting old spuds with a heavy dose of colagen in the sump to keep everything all greased up.
          And the only problem they’ve yet to overcome is the potential for being charged with ‘sustained loss of traction’

    • rata 6.2

      “Bridges retains confidence”.
      So when Dowie steps down in the near future
      she can say “although I retained support of my colleagues
      I believe it is best I step aside”.
      This will make it easier for the Nat’s to win any by- election.
      Spin spin spin.
      NB.
      News caster ends with
      “Dowie does not rule out a return to politics
      at some time in the future”

  7. Cinny 7

    Heatwave, it’s been warm in Motueka.

    What are your tips for keeping cool in the heat?

    Have been opening up the house at night, then getting up before the sun and closing all the windows, curtains etc to keep out the sun.

    • ianmac 7.1

      Blenheim 33 degrees at moment Cinny. As kids we used to revel in very hot summers but now not so much fun. The washing on the line dried almost instantly though.
      Overhead sun doesn’t reach inside much but doors windows wide open and a stiff gutsy gusty norwester keeps the air moving. Refuse the use of an air conditioner.

    • patricia bremner 7.2

      Cinny in Australia one household I know of, puts 8 cool packs in the freezer to be used if a household member becomes heat stressed, wrapped, placed on head and back.
      Also four milk bottles in freezer. Place two at at a time in front of a fan so air blows across them.
      Make fruit juice and cordial iceblocks/popcicles
      DRINK PLENTY, a pinch of salt and sugar help quickly replace lost sweat.
      Fill the bath with cold water, sit in it for ten minutes before bed.
      Wear pure cotton or lawn. Cheers. Not everyone has aircon, or even power goes down for a while sometimes

      • ianmac 7.2.1

        The so called “new” idea about a cooler using the simple evaporation of water works OK. We had a little porous concrete one 60 plus years ago to keep the butter cool.
        A soaking wet towel near the breeze or a fan would work.
        I would tell my kids to get the water off their swimming skins as the change of state water to gas, is what chills them.

        • Dennis Frank 7.2.1.1

          Yes, Ian, did you hear about how our soldiers kept beer cool in the desert during WWII? Wrapped in a wet towel suspended from a line in blazing sunshine, apparently. Actually, did they really get a beer ration from the powers that be or was that an urban legend? Maybe it was water…

      • veutoviper 7.2.2

        Bags of frozen vegetables (eg peas) can also be used in place of cool packs for heat stress – and of course, sprained ankles etc. Better in fact than solid style cool packs as they ‘wrap’.

        Sssshhh – not PC these days, but Glad sell soft plastic ice block bags in packs of 8 (?) for just a couple of dollars where you fill a bag with tap water through a pocket which then self-seals and you end up with a wrapable ice pack for next to nothing. Not reuseable however, unless you use something else (peg?) to reseal the filling hole.

        Not available in all supermarkets but if so, in the same part as sandwich bags etc.

        • patricia bremner 7.2.2.1

          VeutoviperThe cool packs are a gel and can be pushed around an ankle. yes frozen pea pks are a good old stand by.

      • greywarshark 7.2.3

        patricia b
        Something i remember from time in Oz – they tend to line bathroom and have on floor, ceramic tiles which tend to remain cold. Lying lightly clad on the floor, with damp towels over body, could be emergency cooling. Perhaps some soothing music to lower stress, and alleviate the discomfort, cold water for sipping.

        Then there are the novelty caps with reservoirs of water and tubes to suck on, silly but they could save extreme heat stress. Can’t find much on google for these which i remember from decades ago. But coca Cola has come up with a simple? version. I would recommend having plastic disposable gloves though. Bit stupid not including these in the demonstration as nothing is ever as simple as you expect.
        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50UL5LpeEo

        Beer hats

        (https://www.amazon.com/Bazaar-Hands-Beverage-Tubularis-Drinking/dp/B06X9FJ2J3
        (https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Beer-Hat/155078/bn_72173313

        • patricia bremner 7.2.3.1

          Greywarshark, my brother and family used to sleep in the dining room on the tiled floor with the fan going. It was a regular thing in summer if the temperature got above 35 deg. It had a cathedral ceiling

    • Cinny 7.3

      Awesome tips everyone thanks for the advice and tips, much appreciated.

      No air-con at ours, so this kind of info being shared is gold.

      Thanks again.

    • Andre 7.4

      Google diy swamp cooler for a bunch of ideas (if an article from that blathering idiot The Hosk appears, don’t bother with that one).

      Swamp coolers really work a treat in dry areas, but if it’s humid heat they don’t do anything useful.

      Window coverings stopping the heat getting in are good. Something on the outside works better than a curtain on the inside if there’s an easy way to put something there.

  8. greywarshark 8

    Private enterprise will look after us better than slack government – so the mantra goes. It is much more efficient to employ people in a just-in-time scenario? This is very hard on anyone wanting to have a life.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018679697/survival-mode-why-some-rural-emergency-services-are-under-threat

    Prime is a 24/7 emergency medical service which relies on local doctors and nurses, who also have day jobs, as on-call contractors. The medics who are signed-up with Prime drop everything to attend call outs as and when they arise.

    For rural communities, it’s a lifeline.

    Dr Creegan was a Prime doctor on isolated Great Barrier Island before moving to Waimate in South Canterbury, where she raised her family and established her practice while continuing her Prime work.

    She’s one of three Prime responders in the practice covering the service.

    “There’s a thing in the back of your mind all of the time that you’re on call. You just tuck it in and get on with it. But you go to sleep with that thought that you might be woken up in the night,” Dr Creegan said.

    “You can’t go and have a swim without thinking that you’re away from your pager or your phone so you might need to ask someone to hold it for you and sing out to you, or you might just actually say ‘I’m going to go for a swim and I’m not going to worry about it for 20 minutes’. But then you’re going to look at your pager when you come back and if something’s come in that time, how are you going to feel?”

  9. SaveNZ 9

    What planet are these people on if they think those paltry fines will act as a deterrent. Many of the migrants pay that just for the job in the first place! They should have a minimum $50k fine and increasing the more turnover the business has, then 10 times the amount undercharged paid back to the worker with a minimum of $25,000 and then be banned from employing migrant workers and defiantly not allowed to sponsor them permanantly! IF the employer is not a citizen they should be deported for illegal trading and not be allowed to become a resident here!

    If businesses are still better off when they are caught underpaying or asking for money for the job, then what is the deterrent???

    Probably costs more than that for the government to prosecute them, when you look at the lawyers fees and court costs! crazy!

    Restaurant owner fined for poor treatment of migrant workers
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/381115/restaurant-owner-fined-for-poor-treatment-of-migrant-workers

    No wonder places like Hawkes bay have high unemployment of local people and they have a rental crisis!

  10. Morrissey 10

    Allan Nairn: “I think someone like Mr. Abrams would
    be a fit subject for such a Nuremberg-style inquiry.”

    In March 1995, journalist Allan Nairn exposed how Elliott Abrams organized death squads in Guatemala. and confronted him on television.

    Twenty-four years later, Abrams has yet to serve a day in prison for his crimes. Donald Trump has just appointed this terrible criminal “Special U.S. Envoy to Venezuela.”

    ROSE: Let me just ask you a hypothetical question. Would you as an
    assistant secretary of State for Latin American affairs, if you found out that our government was paying a man in the Guatemalan military after it learned that he had been implicated in the assassination of an American or someone married to an American, would you be outraged?

    ABRAMS: I would certainly be outraged in the Devine case which looked like the cold blooded murder of an innocent American. The notion that we would continue to employ such a person would give him and others in the Guatemalan military the sense that we just didn’t care about the killing of American citizens. The Bamaca case is a different case. That guy was a guerrilla and he was not an American.

    ROSE: Yeah, but he wasn’t killed in battle, he was killed in prison.

    ABRAMS: No, but it is a different case. And the responsibility we have is to protect above all American citizens, not Guatemalan guerrillas. So it is a different case, different kind of level of seriousness for the U.S. government.

    NAIRN: Charlie, you asked a hypothetical: How would Mr. Abrams react? In fact we have the historical record. We can see how he and the other Reagan and Bush and Clinton officials have reacted.

    ROSE: In the State Department, or in the CIA, or both?

    NAIRN: Across the board. And in the face of this systematic policy of slaughter by the Guatemalan military, more than 110,000 civilians killed by that military since 1978, what Amnesty International has called a “government program of political murder,” the U.S. has continued to provide covert assistance to the G-2 and they have continued, especially during the time of Mr. Abrams, to provide political aid and comfort. For example. . .

    ABRAMS: Uh, Charlie.

    ROSE: One second.

    NAIRN: …during the Northwest Highland massacres of the [early] ’80s when the Catholic Church said: “never in our history has it come to such grave extremes. It has reached the point of genocide,” President Reagan went down, embraced Rios Montt, the dictator who was staging these massacres, and said he was getting “a bum rap on human rights.” In ’85 when human rights leader Rosario Godoy was abducted by the army, raped, and mutilated, her baby had his fingernails torn out, the Guatemalan military said: “Oh, they died in a traffic accident.” Human rights groups contacted Mr. Abrams, asked him about it, he wrote back-this is his letter of reply-he said: yes, “there’s no evidence other than that they died in a traffic accident.” Now this is a woman raped and mutilated, a baby with his fingernails torn out. This is
    long-standing policy.

    ROSE: …these are specific points raised by Allan having to do with your public conduct.

    ABRAMS: I’m not, I tell you, whatever Allan Nairn wants to do, Charlie, I’m not here to refight the Cold War. I’m glad we won, maybe he’s not. What I’m here to say is we’re talking not about U.S. policy in the world .

    NAIRN: Won against who, won against those civilians the Guatemalan army was massacring?

    ABRAMS: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. We’re not here to refight the Cold War.

    http://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/01/elliott-abrams-and-allan-nairn-on.html

    • Gabby 10.1

      He sounds like a real peach of a guy morry. Maybe the Venezuelans should apply for his extradition.

  11. Sacha 11

    Sounds like the KiwiBuild boss who resigned had trouble with the inertia of the Housing department team he was transferred to – and his previous strong record across multiple jobs supports that: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12197474

    “Mr Barclay was employed by MBIE from July to October 2018 when the KiwiBuild programme was transferred to the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development. During this period, there were no issues raised about his performance, management style or leadership,” the statement [from Barclay’s PR company] said.

    “Within two weeks of the KiwiBuild programme moving to MHUD, he can confirm there were a small number of complaints from individuals who held a close relationship to the Chief Executive, Mr [Andrew] Crisp.”

    The statement said the nature of the complaints related to Barclay’s direct management style and dealings with certain individuals.

    “They were entirely linked to the implementation of the KiwiBuild programme which was Mr Barclay’s only remit. His commitment was to execute against the targets of the KiwiBuild programme, and he was attempting to do this at pace.”

  12. joe90 12

    ‘Nuff said.

  13. joe90 13

    They deployed a trained killer. What could possibly go wrong?

    New details in the case against a Navy SEAL charged with multiple war crimes emerged during a marathon hearing this week at Naval Base San Diego.

    Friday’s hearing revealed that seven Navy SEALs have been granted immunity to testify for the prosecution during the upcoming trial of Edward R. Gallagher, a chief special warfare operator alleged to have murdered a wounded teenage Islamic State combatant by stabbing him in the neck.

    […]

    Witnesses told investigators that Gallagher boasted of killing up to 200 people during the 2017 deployment. Another witness said Gallagher told him he killed “three a day” and to “do the math” for the total number he killed.

    […]

    Prosecutors said the incident began May 3, 2017, with a drone strike and two Hellfire missiles hitting two sides of a home in Mosul. Witness statements conflict about whether the injured Islamic State fighter was inside the home when it was struck. The prosecution says he was, but the defense said their witnesses say he was injured by gunfire, not the drone strike. Both sides agree that Iraqi forces loaded the combatant onto the hood of a Humvee and delivered him to Gallagher’s team. Gallagher, a medic, began treating him.

    Prosecutors say Gallagher stabbed the fighter, estimated to be between 15 and 17 years old. Gallagher also is accused of posing for photos with the corpse, operating a drone over it and, sometime later, celebrating his reenlistment next to it.

    […]

    In unrelated incidents, Gallagher is charged with shooting two civilians — an old man and a little girl — and with shooting indiscriminately at civilians throughout his deployment.

    One witness told investigators Gallagher told him it was “OK to shoot at women.”

    https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-seals-granted-immunity-in-murder-trial-20190126-story.html

  14. greywarshark 14

    This could be the subject of an interesting fast paced scam novel. From 2016 but part of our interesting development as we tried to be the sleazy Switzerland or offshore haven for those with hot money, perhaps hot from being passed around so quickly; too much friction.

    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/81725/nelsons-stock-exchange-big-ponzi-scheme-and-other-tales-john-keys-offshore-financial

    A foreign exchange business that looks and smells like a Ponzi scheme targeting Malaysians, a Nelson-based global stock exchange, a warning from the Czech Republic’s central bank, a fantasist, and curious French-Latvian connections all have one thing in common. New Zealand registered financial service providers.

    While the NZ government looks, albeit unenthusiastically, at changing foreign trust laws in the wake of the Panama Papers, here’s a reminder the country’s international reputation is being degraded by more than just Mossack Fonseca and foreign trusts. This statement is based on our probe of just a handful of NZ registered financial service providers.

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