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Open mike 28/02/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 28th, 2020 - 50 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

50 comments on “Open mike 28/02/2020 ”

  1. Ad 1

    Looks like Bridges is onto a winner with gangs. A good show in Tauranga last night.

    • Rapunzel 1.1

      Pardon? About a 100 heads compared to 250 the previous week where police spoke to the public & didn't end up driving around the carpark looking for non-existent boogie-men?? You really have to be joking, that was all for "appearances" & failed – it wasn't about solutions.

    • Sacha 1.2

      Sounds hilarious. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12312314

      Good opportunity for Bridges’ replacement to show off his chest-beating skills.

      • Rapunzel 1.2.1

        It was from planetkey to #simonsworld interesting to observe but was not about solutions as the more discerning of the audience would have seen, the blinkered ones saw only what they wanted to and at one point acted little more better than a gang with pitchforks themselves.

      • WeTheBleeple 1.2.2

        They are ridiculous posers with no idea what they're talking about.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10509500

        Bridges won't sit down and talk, but will solve the issue.

        Yeah, right.

      • Sacha 1.2.3

        More extensive quotes from the meeting via Richard Harman's blog: https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/02/28/bridges-and-mongrel-mob-spokesperson-in-tense-clash/

        Concludes:

        But the “tough on gangs” roadshow is designed for the provinces; it’s part of the campaign to try and occupy NZ First territory. It’s not for the cities where gangs are mostly invisible and where by the time we get to the election, it is likely the economy will be the main issue. Unfortunately for Bridges, it does not succumb to the easy answers that gangs do.

        • veutoviper 1.2.3.1

          Thanks for that, Sacha. Richard's report and the TVNZ report and video put up by Anne @ 1.5.1 are well worth it for the insight into the mood etc of the meeting and the ugly reception received by Louise Hutchinson.

          However, I don't agree that the tough on gangs approach is designed solely for the provinces.

          Fine, it may be an attempt to occupy NZF territory as part of National's all out campaign to destroy Peters and NZF. However, IMO the National "tough on crime and in particular gangs" approach cannot be seen as solely for the provinces.

          This 'no tolerance of gangs etc' approach as part of their overall law and order policy was highly publicised first by Key back in 2008 (as demonstrated in the old 2008 link in WTB's comment @ 1.2.2) and throughout Key's time as PM.

          It was then resurrected by Bridges late last year with the launch of his big law and order policy paper at National’s Annual Conference last November proposing a major crack down on crime with a special focus on gangs – including establishing a special/elite police unit similar to the Australian Strike Force Raptor Unit.

          Bridges has been talking up his 'no tolerance' approach ever since including on social media etc and I certainly don't recall any attempt to not apply it equally to urban situations or audiences. (Some links etc to the above in my comments in last week's OM 21 Feb discussion referred to below with links to the thread.)

          Back to last night's meeting. As expected it sounds the complete opposite to the meeting also held in Tauranga last week facilitated by Tauranga Mayor Terry Powell and Western Bay of Plenty Mayor Gary Webber. on that occasion they and Police Area Commander Inspector Clifford Paxton and the Bay of Plenty District Health Board's chief inspector of the health sector Simon Everett presented a completely different approach based on understanding and empathy while at the same time acknowledging and addressing the big issues of meth and community safety.

          For those who may have missed it some of us had a conversation re the earlier meeting on Open Mike 21 Feb 2020 initiated by Cinny @ 3 when she posted the Herald report of the earlier meeting. 21 February 2020 at 8:29 am

          IMHO, the contrast between the two meetings could not be greater, and it makes one wonder about the relationship Bridges may have with the Mayors and local Police etc in his own electorate.

    • A 1.3

      Yeah I think he is onto a winner. Possibly his strongest point so far.

      Which is why it is vital NZ stops the endless flow of criminals from Australia https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119863732/jacinda-arderns-pitch-to-scomo-stop-sending-us-your-crims

      Now it is understood that in private talks with Morrison today, Ardern will go much further. New Zealand will significantly stiffen its posturing on the issue, arguing that Australia's position – which Morrison had a hand in crafting while Immigration Minister – lacks proportionality and has become extreme.

      Actually we need to make it clear that this needs to stop immediately, no exceptions or Tauranga will be Hamilton, Wellington etc

    • RedLogix 1.4

      Yup. Most people viscerally loath gangs and any politician who stands up to them, chest-beating or not, will get a hearing.

      If you want to see where this goes, look to the Philippines. Most people know Duterte goes too far, but they support him because the alternative they were living through was worse.

      And totally agree with A above. Australia is many things to NZ, but this deportation policy is definitely on the bad side of ledger. Personally I would go to Morrison and say, you can keep deporting your criminals to us as is your right, but we will impose an extra tax on your resident banks to pay for the extra prisons we have to build.

    • Muttonbird 1.5

      Looked like a Grey Power meeting to me. Interesting he chose the Yacht and Power Boat club. Way to reach out there, Simon.

      Also read that a gang affiliate was there, offered some stats, and was rewarded with no stats from Simon and Mark, then was shouted down by the crowd.

      Again, way to solve the problem.

      • Anne 1.5.1

        Have a look at this video:

        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/content/tvnz/onenews/story/2020/02/28/simon-bridges-goes-head-to-head-with-mongrel-mob-representative.html?auto=6136607249001

        I've been in a situation where middle aged white men were staring me down in an effort to make me feel uncomfortable and put me off my stride. (I'm white but I was confronting them with a truth and they didn't like it.) We can't see them in this clip, but that is exactly what they were doing to this woman. It's a form of bullying and intimidation and strong women are a specific target.

        The meeting was a political stunt.

        • Incognito 1.5.1.1

          The meeting was a political stunt.

          QED

          The link is a TVNZ one; enough said.

        • Poission 1.5.1.2

          She is the PR face of a nasty gang that impoverishes and enslaves populations of low social economic groupings.(as most of the gangs do)

          If she wants to be the messanger for misery,she needs to look at her own ethics (and morality) which I suspect are lacking.

          One of the things that came up in the doco is that it seems meth has really entrenched itself in poorer communities. When it first cropped up in the late ’90s, it took off as a drug which was almost like a cool party drug. It’s a drug that affects a broad range of people, but in recent years there’s been a big shift and it has taken a stranglehold on a lot of poorer communities. And even a low-level retail dealer can have a big impact on a smaller community.

          So when we were planning this, there was a big police operation in Kawerau, called Operation NOTUS. There’s different levels of policing in each district, and the police in Kawerau were frustrated with what they perceived as the increasing strength of the Mongrel Mob, accumulating wealth and peddling meth. They weren’t resourced to investigate organised crime – to do that you have to be up on the wire monitoring phone calls, or doing physical surveillance, cameras and all of that jazz. Even in the Bay of Plenty District, my understanding is that there wasn’t really the resources to do that. They do have an organised crime team, but if there’s a murder or something big, detectives get seconded.

          So what happened was the National Organised Crime Group – normally they target very high end international syndicates – they got involved in this operation targeting the low level retail end. Basically they were tasked to do this job, and spent about six months working with and alongside key people in the Kawerau community. There’s about 6000 people in Kawerau, and the head of the job said they identified something like 600 users, so about 10% of the population. And there was a lot of social deprivation that went with that. So when they went in, it wasn’t just locking people up – I hate the word but it was a wraparound approach. They locked up dealers, but users were able to come forward and get help. And it was quite a new thing for police to do to have elite detectives looking at the lower end up the supply change.

          https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-05-2019/media-and-meth-the-nz-herald-goes-deep-on-the-destructive-drug/

          If you want to be the PR spokesman for modern day slavers,expect a shitstorm.

          • RedLogix 1.5.1.2.1

            A totally solid and interesting comment Poisson. Drugs, gangs and deprivation are a complex and polarising story that isn't easy to get right.

          • Anne 1.5.1.2.2

            That is only one side of the story Poission and I was talking about a specific incident organised by Simon Bridges to the "lock em up and throw away the key" white, racist boomer Nat brigade – some were probably bused in for the event.

            She was a Corrections Officer so she would have known what she was talking about. But the aim of the meeting was not to put both sides of the story and perhaps come to a consensus about what to do about it.

            Not for the first time this woman asked Bridges and the ex-mercenary Mike Mitchell (not a lot of difference between a patched gang member and a mercenary soldier) to come to their headquarters… see it for themselves and discuss their problems.

            Hell no. That might make for a better understanding and pave the way for a solution on both sides. The Nats would lose all the political capital they intend to squeeze out of the issue in time for the election.

            • Rapunzel 1.5.1.2.2.1

              Yes exactly it's disgusting because there's no way they want this "solved" while they can milk it for votes

              • veutoviper

                Exactly Rapunzel and Anne. That is where the contrast is to me between last week's meeting and Bridges' one last night. The earlier meeting was focussed on looking at the overall problem and situation – and the ways of solving or at the least reducing the problems. Last night's was political grandstanding and blaming. FFS Bridges saying to Loise Hutchinson you can speak but I won't believe or listen to you is just astounding for someone who supposedly has high quality legal qualifications and experience in the justice/judicial system.

                I have no tolerance for hard drugs such as P and meth and have many friends who work in the alcohol and addiction field and also in the justice sector, as I did myself for part of my career; and I am well aware from experience of the ill effects of drugs etc. Attitudes and approaches such as Bridges advocates solve nothing.

                • Incognito

                  Simon wasn’t there to solve anything but to get votes.

                  This is the increasingly obvious problem I have with National: they are not interested in anything but getting back in power at any cost.

                  • Peter

                    A couple of times recently I have seen references to Bridges' qualifications as if they mean he is special and above the ordinary and will act and behave in ways befitting those. On here it's " … supposedly has high quality legal qualifications and experience in the justice/judicial system."

                    A lot or people who are qualified at things are dumb. A lot of people who are qualified at things are arseholes. A lot of people who are qualified at things have very poor judgement. A lot of people who are qualified at things start wars. A lot of people who are qualified at things are psychopaths. A lot of people who are qualified at things follow people who are dumb, arseholes, have poor judgement are psychopaths or start wars.

                    Simon Bridges' qualifications means he has those qualifications. They don't mean he isn't a smarmy little lying weasel as he showed on RadioNZ this week.

      • mary_a 1.5.2

        @ Muttonbird (1.5) … Simon made sure he was well in his comfort zone to speak about gangs, with only one challenger, in a room full of Natz supporters. Simon was safe. He had his personal thug Mitchell there to protect him, if things got a bit hairy.

        Simon's electioning campaign should be entertaining. With Mitchell busy doing his own campaigning to act as Simon's bully boy, how will Simon manage?

  2. Louis 2

    @ Ad, but its the same lines we have all heard before. I still remember National govt's failed war on gangs and drugs. Apologies meant to be a reply

    • Muttonbird 2.1

      John Key's war on drugs was a failure because, as always, National Party policy contradicted itself.

      On the one hand they pretended to be tough on law and order, but on the other they encouraged free immigration without any kind of character checks. If you had money or if you had a trade skill you were in.

      I believe the explosion of accessible methamphetamine is tied to domestic gangs associating with recent poor quality immigrants both from China, which is a major source of precursors, and from Australia, which is a major source of gang related smuggling and distribution intelligence.

      Bit rich for Simon to stand up at the Tauranga Yacht and Power Boat Club and weep about it now.

  3. joe90 3

    Consider the shit fight should we have to do the same.

    Following the spread of the new coronavirus, Prime Minister Abe expressed his intention to request that all elementary schools, junior high schools, and high schools nationwide be closed temporarily from spring 2 until spring break from next month. In the future, we will make requests to related organizations nationwide. This request does not include kindergartens, daycare centers and schoolchildcare.

    The government opened a headquarters for countermeasures against the new coronavirus at the Prime Minister's Office at 6:00 pm on the 27th.

    Prime Minister Abe noted that temporary closure of elementary and junior high schools has been taken in Hokkaido and Ichikawa City, Chiba Prefecture, and said, "Efforts are being made to prevent the spread of infection to children in each region. But the last week or two is a very important time. "

    He said, "First and foremost, put children's health and safety first, and prepare in advance for the risk of large-scale infections caused by many children and teachers gathering for long hours on a daily basis." He stated that all elementary and junior high schools, as well as high schools and special needs schools, should be closed temporarily until spring break.

    google translate

    https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20200227/k10012304751000.html?utm_int=news-new_contents_list-items_002

  4. Herodotus 4

    Corona virus, to easy a potential rush for medicinal and hospital services, perhaps our govt should push an urgent country wide program to give all elderly, uni and school students the flu jab as winter is coming ?

    • Matiri 4.1

      Flu jab is free to over 65's, people with certain health conditions etc and has been for years. Offer is widely taken up in my rural community.

      • Herodotus 4.1.1

        Free is one good thing, the other issue is ease of access. After viewing the issues many communities face to see a doctor, there could be an opportunity for Min of Health to become proactive and setup clinics with nurses either visiting retirement homes, schools etc to administer these jabs to all, not just those who qualify with certain health dispositions. Go out to where the people are. Perhaps this scare will not materalise to become the issue that it could be, but to implement a preventive measure could take so much stress out of a health system at breaking, and make the govt look good 😉

    • Sacha 4.2

      That is exactly what I heard the Ministry of Health promise on RNZ last night, to reduce one predictable seasonal demand on the system.

    • gsays 4.3

      By 'give' you mean make freely available?

      As opposed to compulsory jabs.

  5. AB 5

    Shock of shocks and knock me down with a feather. A Washington Post story out today – basically a statistical analysis that shows no sign of fraudulent activity in the vote count of the Bolivian election last year. The WP story is paywalled – but a brief summary of it is here.

    It should remind us that an interpretation of current events that is consistent with historical patterns is generally a good first port of call. Which means that the default position should have been to view events in Bolivia as a right-wing resource-theft coup orchestrated from Washington – at least until evidence emerged to the contrary, which it hasn't.

  6. Alice Tectonite 6

    Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel's election expenses investigated by SFO.

    RNZ

  7. adam 7

    A quick look at Bansky's The Walled Off Hotel in Bethlehem. Nice video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9qtYJTpsf8&feature=em-uploademail&ab_channel=KimIversen

    • Cinny 7.1

      That's epic, thanks so much for sharing. Absolutely beautiful….. loved the informative history clip.

      Banksy heart has quite a following in Israel, may this new work of art open many eyes.

  8. joe90 8

    Saw my first corona-phobe today. Looked like an older bloke wearing a surgical cap under an acrylic, hazmat like hooded onesie, wrap-around googles, mask, OR shoe covers and surgical gloves It's a stinker today, too, so I can only imagine just how miserable he would've been underneath that get-up.

    But hey, a phobics gotta phobe.

    • McFlock 8.1

      Can't laugh too hard, myself.

      I've tended to wear gloves everywhere for years – bloody doorhandles and eftpos machines lol. I blame bouncing – all the blokes wanting to shake your hand, but then seeing how few of them wash their hands after going to the toilet…

      • joe90 8.1.1

        Years ago the outfit I was working for got a new tea boy, Rex.

        Rex was an ex-army medic and set to with a bottle of squirt, cleaning daily every handle in the place, doors, desks. cabinets, lockers, vehicles, and every phone/radio hand set, too. Halved the number of sickies.

        • McFlock 8.1.1.1

          Thank god for my current role in a locked room with two-three people and no public interaction lol. One place tried to make us share R/T headsets.

      • Sacha 8.1.2

        Never thought of that side effect of the role. Interesting.

        • McFlock 8.1.2.1

          I was studying one or two public health-type papers at about the same time, so it probably had a reinforcing effect.

          The main side effect is that I'm now completely crap at remembering names – so many people would introduce themselves one night, and you'd never see them again.

          • Sacha 8.1.2.1.1

            Bet you are good at threat assessment though. 🙂

            • McFlock 8.1.2.1.1.1

              The real trick is drunk-whispering. Manipulating their behaviour before they even had the thought to do X. Most common example is the bouncer/"glassie". Wipes down a pretty clean table, disrupts the flow of the conversation that was leading to sulking body language, redirects it. And takes weapons off the bench.

              Not that students were all that difficult. There were other bars where I would never have worked – they would have eaten me for dinner lol

    • AB 8.2

      Perhaps he is immunocompromised due to having transplant surgery – or has dodgy lungs and doesn't really find the prospect of gasping his way to a death from pneumonia too amusing?

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