Open mike 28/05/2020

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1. Ad 1

   28 May 2020 at 6:39 am

   With the new fresh water quality standards due out today, I have a very strong feeling that Minister Parker is going to walk it all backwards faster than a moonwalking Michael Jackson.

   He will cite our dire economic conditions, and "listening", and "revised", and the need for "flexibility".

   He will talk about trust, and progress, and metaphors about pathways.

   There may even be extra powers to discipline regional governments for their regulatory failures.

   But as Politik noted a few days ago, on behalf of our farmers New Zealand First played hardball, sidelined the Greens, and stared down Parker until he folded like origami.

   Dairy NZ and HortNZ and Federated Farmers will moan like a stuck Spanish bull, but privately it will have almost fully neutralised the biggest-ever regulatory threat they've faced.

   Goobye Galaxids.
   • Stephen D 1.1

     28 May 2020 at 12:46 pm

     From Stuff.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121652598/government-pumps-700m-into-cleaning-up-waterways

     "Climate Change Minister and Green Party co-leader James Shaw said the reforms were the strongest protections a government has ever put in place for waterways.

     “We all rely on clean water as part of our way of life; whether for drinking, for gathering freshwater kai, or for swimming on a well-earned summer break. However, our precious waterways have been in crisis for decades.

     “Not only has this meant that people cannot swim in a lot of our rivers without risking their health, but many of the species that depend on clean rivers, lakes, wetlands and estuaries are now threatened with extinction.

     “Today that changes. With mātauranga Māori – or Māori principles – for water management as our guide, we have developed a clear, robust and enforceable set of policies so we can all enjoy and benefit from healthy rivers and clean, safe water for decades to come.”
     • Ad 1.1.1

       28 May 2020 at 3:46 pm

       If you go onto Scoop's Politics section it looks like the nature advocates are aghast at the lack of nitrogen rules, and the farmers and irrigators are just fine with the whole thing.

       I'd be keen to see a forecast map of the likely effects of these rules such as they are.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1

         28 May 2020 at 5:45 pm

         “Run-down of urban infrastructure is a key reason for urban water quality problems and I don’t see that highlighted in there.”

         Reducing the pollution at source rather than cleaning up later should be the focus, he [Dr Mike Joy] says. The new rules flag $700 million for riparian planting.

         “If you spent that money on reducing the pollution then you would have a permanent win, this is mopping up at the bottom while you’re polluting.

         “So you can just keep spending money forever [on] that kind of thing.”

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018748371/ecologist-responds-to-new-water-rules
   • patricia 1.2

     28 May 2020 at 6:09 pm

     Please let us know what you don't and do like about the actual decision.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   28 May 2020 at 7:00 am

   I didn't see it, but this Spinoff review of Tova's story makes a good case for it being front-runner for news story of the year: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27-05-2020/a-frame-by-frame-analysis-of-tova-obriens-hall-of-fame-national-shambles-story/

   Why? It captures the high drama unfolding in real-time as she follows her keen instincts to get responses to the emerging political nuances. I bet they use it as a classic case study in journo school for years to come. "Hayden Donnell has watched it several hundred times."

   "Newshub’s camera operator captures the distant gaze on Muller’s face as the inquiry is made. The shot reveals a painful cross-stitch of emotions. Fear. Regret. Resignation."

   "“She’ll be needed in caucus more than I will,” Bennett says with palpable delight as Collins heads to the mics to be interviewed first. In the space of seven chilling seconds, O’Brien then shows Collins witheringly replying “oh Paula”, before asking media, “is there something wrong with me being white?”"

   "O’Brien’s report is one of several humiliations for Muller over the last three days. He’s struggled in interviews with Jack Tame on Q&A and John Campbell on TVNZ Breakfast, often flapping his hands in response to tough questions as if hoping to levitate out of the situation."
   • Robert Guyton 2.1

     28 May 2020 at 7:26 am

     Collins' oleaginous "Oh, Paula!". A softer variation on venomous, I suppose.
3. Dennis Frank 3

   28 May 2020 at 7:10 am

   "National MP Paul Goldsmith might not be Māori, but his heritage shows he has a lot of whānau on the East Cape – his ancestor regarded as becoming the "father of more children than any other early trader. Goldsmith's great-great-grandfather, Charles George Goldsmith, arrived in the area from Liverpool in the 1840s, and had four wives – two Māori (Ngāti Porou), and two Pākehā – fathering 16 children." https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12335229

   Goldsmith: "That is the sort of spirit that built this nation." "That broad connection, thanks to his ancestor, include many Ngāti Porou whanaunga, who range from economics Rhodes scholars, iwi and business leaders, and even a famous film director."

   "According to the book Historic Poverty Bay and the East Coast, N.I., N.Z., by Joseph Mackay, Charles Goldsmith was born in Liverpool in 1822. He had served on a trading vessel on the east coast of South America before he appeared in the Waiapu district in the early 1840s. He was a whaler, and kept a store at Waipiro Bay, before moving to Tūranganui-a-Kiwa – then known as Poverty Bay, and opening another store at Kairoro."

   "It was there that tragedy struck, when in 1868 while he was in Turanganui, two of his children, who were at the store, were slain as part of the Matawhero massacre on orders of Te Kooti, and his store burnt down."

   "He was later in charge of Kaiti native school, and some years later, kept an hotel at Muriwai. He even became a licensed interpreter." "Victor Goldsmith said it was very common at the time for European settlers to take on Māori wives – and vice versa – a time of great inter-cultural mingling. "Most people on the East Coast don't have Māori names, it was just how people assimilated. It's what Tā Apirana Ngata described as 'hybrid vigour'.""
   • RedLogix 3.1

     28 May 2020 at 8:04 am

     "Most people on the East Coast don't have Māori names, it was just how people assimilated. It's what Tā Apirana Ngata described as 'hybrid vigour'.""

     Indeed, something I've never mentioned before here is that my grandfather (on my father’s side) was from an East Coast iwi and I have a bunch of very brown cousins. And we all share a very Anglo name.

     This whole race/culture based identity thing is needlessly divisive when you consider just how very intermingled the two peoples really are.
     • solkta 3.1.1

       28 May 2020 at 8:19 am

       You use 'race' and culture like they are similar things. Just having some distant relatives who are Maori doesn't give you any insight into the distinct ways of thinking and experiencing that are Maori. You make this obvious with your stupid assertion.
       • OnceWasTim 3.1.1.1

         28 May 2020 at 8:30 am

         /Agreed @Solkta

         Just as I don't claim to 'feel' and think as Maori do despite having a pakeha brother (since passed away a decade ago), educated at Te Aute, fluent in Te Reo, Christened in the Ratana Church and married to a Maori.

         The best I can possibly claim is that its made me much more sympathetic (maybe empathetic) towards the way Maori continue to be treated
       • RedLogix 3.1.1.2

         28 May 2020 at 9:17 am

         You use 'race' and culture like they are similar things.

         Yes they are different, but they broadly overlap. They are not the same thing, but family heritage and culture are strongly correlated for most people.

         Just having some distant relatives who are Maori doesn't give you any insight into the distinct ways of thinking and experiencing that are Maori.

         And indeed it would be a stupid assertion if that's what I had claimed. But then again it gives you absolutely no grounds to erase what my family means to me either.
         • solkta 3.1.1.2.1

           28 May 2020 at 9:39 am

           But then again it gives you absolutely no grounds to erase what my family means to me either.

           I have no idea how this relates to what i said. Again it just looks like one of your attempts at diversion.

           You said that the Maori identity politics thing was "needlessly divisive" because many Pakeha are related to Maori. I would have thought the example of Paul Goldsmith would have shown how this point is irrelevant.
           • RedLogix 3.1.1.2.1.1

             28 May 2020 at 9:56 am

             Just having some distant relatives who are Maori doesn't give you any insight into the distinct ways of thinking and experiencing that are Maori. You make this obvious with your stupid assertion.

             And I have no idea how that relates to what I said. It may be obvious inside your head, but it just looks like a bad faith argument to me.

             You said that the Maori identity politics thing was "needlessly divisive" because many Pakeha are related to Maori.

             Again bad faith misrepresentation, what I said is that the two groups are now very intermingled, after all most Maori are closely related to Pakeha as well. And culturally the two groups have influenced each other enormously over the past 200 odd years.
             • solkta …

               28 May 2020 at 10:27 am

               Your post used the word intermingled but the only context you gave was a bunch of very brown cousins and a shared very Anglo name.

               The reason that the race/culture based identity thing is unavoidably divisive is because most Pakeha have very little understanding of Maori ways of thinking and experiencing, or even of the history of this country. Being distantly related to a Maori is not going to help that.
               • mauī …

                 28 May 2020 at 8:25 pm

                 And here you have publicly attacked a wonderful Maori man who whakapapas back to Ngati Porou. One has to wonder who the real racist in this conversation has actually been…?
                 • solkta …

                   28 May 2020 at 9:17 pm

                   Sorry, who is this wonderful Maori from Ngati Porou? I don't think RL was claiming to be Maori.
                 • RedLogix …

                   28 May 2020 at 9:18 pm

                   That's quite funny, but no there is no question I grew up on the Pakeha side of the family and I cannot in good faith present myself as Maori.

                   But equally just before I came to Australia I made an effort to track down and meet up with the cuzzies. Cool people, we were all really happy to make up for a long broken connection.
               • Paddington …

                 28 May 2020 at 9:14 pm

                 I am currently involved in fighting against plans to cause irreversable environmental damage to very special places in our city. The places include areas of land that is owned by Maori. There are Maori and non-Maori fighting against these destructive plans (of a council funded entity). I have taken the time to 'understand the Maori ways of thinking and experiencing' so that I can stand alongside my Maori peers and together we can understand each others connections to these special places. And I have been joined in that journey by a large number of non-Maori supporters of our cause.

                 So unless you have surveyed 'most pakeha', don't pretend to speak for us.
                 • solkta …

                   28 May 2020 at 9:22 pm

                   I don't pretend to speak for Pakeha, i'm just saying how it is. If you personally have learned something since we last discussed the tree thing then that is great. You were looking very ignorant then.
                   • Paddington …

                     28 May 2020 at 10:27 pm

                     1. You were purporting to speak for most pakeha. That is both ignorant and arrogant.
                     2. What I have learned through the tree thing is that the (ratepayer funded) Maunga Authority are ideologically misguided and morally bankrupt.
                     3. What I have come to better understand is how Maori view the whenua. More and more they are challenging the Maunga Authority’s warped view of governance of these beautiful places, including Ngati Whatua, who have openly challenged the Maunga Authority’s governanance of Owairaka.
                   • solkta …

                     28 May 2020 at 10:38 pm

                     1. You were purporting to speak for most pakeha.

                     No i was not. I was just saying how it is. That is not speaking for them but speaking about them.
                   • Paddington …

                     29 May 2020 at 2:57 pm

                     "I was just saying how it is. "

                     No, you were saying how you think it is. Claining "most Pakeha have very little understanding of Maori ways of thinking and experiencing, or even of the history of this country." when you can't possibly knpow that is simply ignorant.
           • greywarshark 3.1.1.2.1.2

             28 May 2020 at 10:18 am

             It's a pity that some here concentrate too much on dissecting and criticising the comments from people who are trying to have a reasonable discussion. The blog becomes didactic and a narrow-minded dictatorship rather than working to show how a more informed and collaborative democracy would work.
             • bwaghorn …

               28 May 2020 at 11:19 am

               It sure as shit stops a clunky thinker like me from trying to put my 2 cents in on race relations in nz.
     • roblogic 3.1.2

       28 May 2020 at 12:11 pm

       I know some of those East Coast Goldsmiths, they are a talented lot. Enjoyed Paul G's forthright responses and wry smiles
4. Dennis Frank 4

   28 May 2020 at 8:31 am

   The PM may be looking at the big covid-driven picture, but political management has to be done by someone. Who's gambling that using the coalition agreement like a gagging order is good politics? If you don't let people inform the media & public, then the rumour mill takes over & the wrong impressions may form in the public mind.

   Thus John Minto: "Behind the scenes now Labour MPs will be whispering to key people: “We didn’t want to do it this way but New Zealand First wouldn’t agree”, repeating the messages from Labour MPs in 2005: “We wanted to do more for beneficiaries but Helen and Michael (Helen Clarke and Michael Cullen) wouldn’t let us”. Gutlessness personified." https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/28/why-does-carmel-sepuloni-bother-to-get-out-of-bed-in-the-morning/

   I see no strategic advantage in allowing the fudging of the issue to continue. It just looks like incompetence. Okay, the Nats are way ahead of the govt in demonstrating incompetence currently, true. Even so, not a good look.

   Who is responsible for the two-tier meme achieving widespread circulation in the media? Answer: those who created the policy basis for that perception. Who did that? The coalition agreement is being used by the govt to prevent the Greens telling us. Blame Labour? I saw Willie Jackson telling a reporter he wasn't happy with it. He's running the Labour maori ship, right? If he's not on board, you'd reasonably suspect the other Labour maori feel likewise. Blame NZF? Not unless we get a good enough reason first.
   • Ad 4.1

     28 May 2020 at 9:03 am

     What crap you talk.

     NZFirst break ranks whenever they want – and did so yesterday.

     The fact is these Green MPs are just cabbages.
     • Dennis Frank 4.1.1

       28 May 2020 at 9:46 am

       Well cabbages are Green, right? But I note you didn't even attempt to address any of the substantive points. Tacit concession seems a tad wimpish. But I realise trying to defend the indefensible is too much of a challenge, so I sympathise.
       • Ad 4.1.1.1

         28 May 2020 at 9:51 am

         This is a Labour-led government doing precisely what it wants, with brio and popularity.

         Minto proposing minor conspiracies is just so fanciful.

         The Greens are nowhere. Their supporters are generating the standard chatter of perpetual righteous losing.
         • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1.1

           28 May 2020 at 10:25 am

           generating the standard chatter of perpetual righteous losing

           Yes, I've oft had to criticise that syndrome. But it is the inevitable consequence of trying to out-flank Labour on the left instead of representing the Green movement on an authentic basis. I originally expected them to learn from experience but no sign of that so far. Perhaps if the electorate flushes them out of parliament, the catharsis resulting may insert the learning through the concrete.
         • SPC 4.1.1.1.2

           28 May 2020 at 12:54 pm

           Still being heard unlike the left in the Labour Party.
         • weka 4.1.1.1.3

           28 May 2020 at 6:20 pm

           bash, bash, but still no explanation of how the Greens could get what they want, against both Lab and NZF, given they sit to the left of Labour and don't have the natural leverage that comes from being a centrist party like NZF.

           At this point it's just boring. You know enough about how government works, but maybe you just prefer to put the boot in.
       • Tricledrown 4.1.1.2

         28 May 2020 at 10:15 am

         Red cabbages Winston has put the handbrake on the Greens because he can form a coalition with National the greens can't because of their stance.
         • Ad 4.1.1.2.1

           28 May 2020 at 11:01 am

           It's going to keep happening until the Greens grow some balls.
           • SPC 4.1.1.2.1.1

             28 May 2020 at 12:53 pm

             Where's the CGT?
             • Ad …

               28 May 2020 at 3:41 pm

               Exactly
               • SPC …

                 28 May 2020 at 4:26 pm

                 Really?

                 Until the Greens hold the balance of power they have no leverage. They might have after the September election, but someone has already ruled it out. The Greens have no leverage when National also rule it out.

                 The only leverage coalition partners have is to block something requiring legislation. There is no leverage to pressure coalition partners to go further than they are prepared to go.
                 • Dennis Frank …

                   28 May 2020 at 4:41 pm

                   I suspect their gamble is based on NZF not making the threshold. Unwise, that! However the electorate are giving the PM all the credit for pandemic management success. Winston will be peeved – but with Labour threatening to win on its own the Green caucus may believe Jacinda's goodwill extends to including them in her second term.
                   • weka …

                     28 May 2020 at 6:28 pm

                     I'm actually ok at this point if the numbers mean the Greens are in opposition. Let them go hard against shitty Labour policy and see how Labour gets on with that.

                     A way better outcome for NZ would be L/G with lots more Green MPs. NZ will get the centre left government we deserve, it's really on centre lefties at this point.
                 • weka …

                   28 May 2020 at 6:26 pm

                   don't hold your breath waiting for an explanation from people who want to blame the Greens for the positioning of Labour and NZF.

                   "There is no leverage to pressure coalition partners to go further than they are prepared to go."

                   If the voters give enough party votes to the Greens that Labour and the Greens could govern alone (assuming Lab would do that without NZF which is a big if, but it could happen if NZF drop below 5%), then the Greens will have much more negotiating power. How much will depend on how many MPs, I think there is a general consensus of fairness in relation to the vote (unless you are Peters, and you will expect more power than is your due).

                   This is a real potential this year, but it does depend on people who voted Labour last time voting Green, not just to keep them in parliament, but to give them some actual power. Labour supporters like Ad won't want that. They want the Greens in parliament and maybe even in govt, but they don't want them to have power, hence the bashing. Other Labour voters are saying they will vote Green this year, for a range of reasons, but we will have to wait and see how many.

                   Meanwhile the Greens do what they do, effect change rather than going for power for power's sake. And they don't buy into the macho politicking that Ad wants them to. There are good reasons for that, and NZ does seem to want such a party and expects the Greens to not play bullshit games.
               • patricia …

                 28 May 2020 at 6:20 pm

                 Under NZ First's heel.
           • Tricledrown 4.1.1.2.1.2

             28 May 2020 at 9:38 pm

             Grow the votes is the way
5. Treetop 5

   28 May 2020 at 9:22 am

   I have been giving the Social Security Act some thought. There needs to be changes made to Commencement of Benefits and Ending of Benefits due to a pandemic.
   • Anne 5.1

     28 May 2020 at 10:25 am

     Jacinda Ardern has already acknowledged there are anomalies showing up in the system, and that the Social Security Act needs an overhaul. She hasn't been more specific than that yet but at least we know the government is aware changes need to be made.
     • bwaghorn 5.1.1

       28 May 2020 at 11:17 am

       Once another 5% of "good old hard working kiwis " are on the dole the time will be right to fix the benefit system, go to early and the nats win in 2020.
     • Treetop 5.1.2

       28 May 2020 at 1:46 pm

       Had Covid-19 not have occurred I feel that the last budget would have improved dental care even if the SNG rose to $500.

       People tend to be able to scrape by using SNGs when the unexpected occurs. The SNG programme is where I would start first and if possible buy up some struggling motels to house the homeless.

       So much needs to change with welfare that discussions need to occur between the government and benefit rights coordinators.

       The country can only afford so much and unemployment has not yet peaked.

       Sometimes a little bit can go a long way.
       • patricia 5.1.2.1

         28 May 2020 at 3:53 pm

         Australian states bought motels to house singles and couples years ago. They also provided fully planned communities, something we are just beginning.
       • Barfly 5.1.2.2

         28 May 2020 at 5:33 pm

         I had to google SNG urk
   • James Thrace 5.2

     28 May 2020 at 12:54 pm

     There already have been changes made. E.g. the 13 week stand down is not applied at the moment
6. Dennis Frank 6

   28 May 2020 at 11:51 am

   Bomber: "Bridges challenged Muller on his claim that National are the Party for small businesses by pointing out the startling fact that barely 20% of his Cabinet have any Business experience, watching Muller drown during that question is almost too much pain for even a masochist to endure." https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/28/how-has-national-become-a-white-supremacist-party-in-less-than-week/

   I saw that. He did indeed seem skewered. An adept would have finessed it by responding thus: "Whatever. The coalition represent the anti-business brigade. We have to balance that. Are you trying to suggest that business ought not to be represented in politics??"

   Then Bomber gets to the guts of the primary issue: "It’s not that they selected a dozen white volk , it’s that they had no idea how that looked to everyone else." Elementary, my dear Watson! Was Hooton off sick?? If not, he has to own his share of that achilles heel.
   • roblogic 6.1

     28 May 2020 at 4:12 pm

     Thanks for the link, Bomber's polemics are epic when he gets a head of steam up
7. joe90 7

   28 May 2020 at 12:04 pm

   Oh, just a pair of nuclear capable nations rattling sabres.

   SRINAGAR, India — Indian and Chinese soldiers are in a bitter standoff in the remote and picturesque Ladakh region, with the two countries amassing soldiers and machinery near the tense frontier, Indian officials said.

   The standoff began in early May when large contingents of Chinese soldiers entered deep inside Indian-controlled territory at three places in Ladakh, erecting tents and posts, the officials said this week.

   http://archive.li/AgulB
   • RedLogix 7.1

     28 May 2020 at 1:01 pm

     Yes. Xi Xinping's CCP is doubling down on pissing off just about everyone at the moment. It's hard to see the purpose for it all beyond ramping up domestic ultra-nationalism.

     Keep in mind these guys regard New Zealand as part of their Third Island chain.
     • McFlock 7.1.1

       28 May 2020 at 1:34 pm

       Domestic stability would be the main priority, but it also doesn't hurt them to put a bit of stick about now dolt45 is trying to reassert (to deflect from his own domestic fuckups). e.g. the Taiwan thing was a slight backslide for CCP
       • RedLogix 7.1.1.1

         28 May 2020 at 1:58 pm

         Taiwan is a big concern; I'd rate the chances of a hard invasion this year at 50/50.

         Just in case anyone wonders where I get my paranoid views of the CCP from, some years back I met a Chinese man (tramping of all things) here in NZ who was a retired very senior Taiwanese govt official. On our first trip together we had a close call with hypothermia and have remained good friends ever since.

         One thing is absolutely clear, Taiwan has been a self-governing state since 1947 and the large majority of people do not want to be 'reunified' with the mainland regime. Especially under the CCP's 'President for Life' Xinping.
         • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1

           28 May 2020 at 2:36 pm

           50/50 is a bit much – not sure what geopolitical conditions have changed to make it more likely.

           And HK/uighurs could deteriorate further, so they'll need to hold reserves for that. As well as their other border disputes. So even assuming they can rule out direct US assistance, it might be an expensive move.
           • RedLogix 7.1.1.1.1.1

             28 May 2020 at 3:05 pm

             What I think has changed are:

             1. CV19 has done two things; one is that the exemplary Taiwanese response (they actually warned WHO of CV19 human to human transmission on Dec31) is a major loss of face for the CCP, and also obviously it has caused a major distraction in the USA.)

             2. The withdrawal of the USA from global affairs is becoming increasingly obvious. US overseas troop deployments in total is now less than 100,000, lower than any time in the past century.

             3. The Chinese military has dramatically expanded it's capacity in the past few years. In particular they may well believe their new hypersonic missile capacity gives them the ability to keep the US Navy aircraft carriers at a safe distance.

             4. They keep on saying that they are preparing for war.

             5. Their military are in the middle of major invasion landing exercises on Hainan Island. Also in their sights are an invasion of the Dongsha Island group .

             No single factor is conclusive of course, but none of them point to a reduction in the odds.
             • McFlock …

               28 May 2020 at 3:44 pm

               They're valid points, but most of them aren't particularly new. China's been progressively isolating Taiwan for 60 years, C19 is a blip in that. We could argue that foreign policy has become less planned as a result of Xi's concentration of personal power rather than the previous power of the state institution, but even so a transitory "loss of face" is a bit much to go to war over. They've been rattling the sabre for decades. Maybe we're just more aware of it, or maybe there's been a genuine culture change towards invasion. I don't know.

               China's military tech advances are significant, but it's been another ongoing process. They still have notable deficiencies in jet engines, for example. Additionally, any invasion of Taiwan will require naval deployment (otherwise any airborne assault will wither on the vine), with generally known points of origin and Taiwan's long buildup of naval defenses of all types of bangbang. Sure, it might be like the Fall of Singapore, but somehow I doubt it. Getting your invasion force sunk in the Formosa Strait would be a massive loss of face.

               The US retreat towards isolationism is a fair point, but it's one of those situations where the longer one waits, the rosier it gets. So maybe the invasion will be november/december if it happens, but I still think the odds are against it.
               • Barfly …

                 28 May 2020 at 5:38 pm

                 can we get the TAB to offer odds? I'd be betting against fyi
         • roblogic 7.1.1.1.2

           28 May 2020 at 2:52 pm

           July 2021 is the 100th anniversary of the CCP. They want something to celebrate, perhaps a re-enactment of the cultural revolution and slaughter of 35 to 45 million.
           • Descendant Of Smith 7.1.1.1.2.1

             28 May 2020 at 3:20 pm

             They can celebrate one year since Judith Collins released her book.
             • roblogic …

               28 May 2020 at 4:01 pm

               Gnats really have no principles do they? One hand funded by the CCP, other hand promoting alt right memes.

               I had hoped the ascension of Toad Muddler meant a clean out, but it’s gone pear shaped pretty quick.
           • McFlock 7.1.1.1.2.2

             28 May 2020 at 3:47 pm

             That's an interesting point about the anniversary.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.2

       28 May 2020 at 6:41 pm

       “Keep in mind these guys [the CCP] regard New Zealand as part of their Third Island chain.” – RL

       That's an interesting link, but note the Hawaii comes before Tonga and NZ in the 'Third Island Chain' (Amlia Island, Hawaii, Tonga, NZ). Also note that the Island Chain Concept was propounded by John Foster Dulles in 1951 for the strategic containment of the USSR and China. I'm not surprised that you would claim that the CCP regards "New Zealand as part of their Third Island chain", but perhaps you could provide some objective supporting evidence – oh wait, how foolish of me.

       Tonga is a long way from China, NZ even further. Australia's foreign aid to Tonga was in decline, but dwarfed that of any other country in 2016 when Rear Admiral Dr. S. Kulshrestha's (Indian Navy, Retd.) opinion piece was written.

       Which country gives the most aid to Pacific Island nations? The answer might surprise you

       "Between 2011 to 2017, Australian governments poured at least $US6.5 billion ($8.76 billion) into aid projects across the region. The final figure will likely be even larger because Lowy is still gathering data for 2017.

       That dwarfs the contributions of every other country."

       https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-09/aid-to-pacific-island-nations/10082702?nw=0
   • Adrian 7.2

     28 May 2020 at 2:02 pm

     "They have been doing it all day, ref". Its posturing and a mutual pissing off contest, that India’/China land border ( and it's the only common one they have ) is probably the hardest to cross with an invading army anywhere in the world.
     • joe90 7.2.1

       28 May 2020 at 2:22 pm

       It's a reminder from the CCP about the perils of cuddling up to the US.

       For the first time since the Kargil intrusions of 1999, Indian territory is in the hands of foreign soldiers. Starting in the third week of April, more than 5,000 Chinese soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) have intruded into five points in Ladakh – four along the Galwan River, and one near the Pangong Lake.

       While patrol intrusions from both sides are routine in areas where the Line of Actual Control (LAC) – the de facto border between India and China – is disputed, the LAC in the Galwan Valley corresponds to China’s official claim line.

       That means that, in sending thousands of PLA troops three-to-four kilometres into the Galwan Valley, China has violated its own claim line and occupied territory that Beijing itself has traditionally acknowledged to be Indian.

       This is not shaping up like a routing patrol confrontation, or even a temporary occupation of disputed territory of the kind that took place in Depsang in 2013, or in Chumar in 2014. This time the PLA soldiers are digging defences, preparing bunkers, moving in heavy vehicles and have reportedly even moved artillery guns to the rear (albeit in their own territory) to support the intruders, say the sources.

       http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-new-and-worrying-chapter-ladakh.html
   • Grafton Gully 7.3

     28 May 2020 at 8:34 pm

     "wave after wave of screaming Chinese" – about time they won a foreign war.
8. roblogic 8

   28 May 2020 at 12:14 pm

   Global adulation of **OUR** Prime Minister continues. No you can’t have her!

   https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1265774537523769344?s=20

   https://twitter.com/meladoodle/status/1265075406790516737?s=20
   • Morrissey 8.1

     28 May 2020 at 4:59 pm

     She's good, but she'd better watch out. The National Party is full of brilliant candidates, led by the dynamic and charismatic Todd Muller.

     https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/just-kidding-meme.jpg
9. greywarshark 9

   28 May 2020 at 12:27 pm

   Keeping ourselves healthy may include lowering the toilet lid when you flush and then politely putting it up for the next person. And perhaps pulling a bit of toilet paper which is held over the door handle and the lock-knob before washing and drying hands.

   Such improved practices may reduce much sickness particularly Covid-19.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018747730/how-covid-19-could-change-public-toilets-forever
   • joe90 9.1

     28 May 2020 at 12:45 pm

     putting it up for the next person.

     Nope, lift it yourself.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_plume
10. Dennis Frank 10

    28 May 2020 at 3:17 pm

    An inkling of how economies will be transformed by covid-driven geopolitical realignment: "Washington is not alone in feeling that Chinese consolidation of supply chains for many essential goods was exposed by the coronavirus as an intolerable threat. In early April, Japan unveiled a $2.2 billion funding package to shift key supply chains away from China, and Germany has called for an EU-wide effort to bolster continental manufacturing of essential health care goods. Meanwhile, alternative low-cost manufacturing hubs are waiting with open arms. India, for example, is reportedly courting more than 1,000 U.S. firms in China and setting up special economic zones twice the size of Luxembourg to house them." https://geopoliticalfutures.com/china-is-still-the-next-china/

    "White House-backed legislation that would give subsidies to U.S. manufacturers who leave China." Subsidies! By Trump! Roger Douglas will be spinning in his wheelchair.

    So "the change from competition to confrontation between the U.S. and China has been a long time coming. The launch of the U.S.-China trade and tech wars in 2017 merely announced its arrival. COVID-19 kicked it into overdrive."

    "The pandemic did this, in part, by exposing just how much China had become a single point of failure in supply chains of essential goods in critical sectors like pharma. For example, China produces around 80-90 percent of the global supply of active ingredients for antibiotics. Chinese export restrictions and bottlenecks led to shortages of personal protective equipment, test kits and vital medical equipment, including products made by U.S. firms in China. The pandemic also exposed chronic quality control problems in China, with several embattled countries having to discard much-needed shipments of faulty Chinese masks and test kits. (To be fair, the global rush to source pandemic supplies has created a profiteer’s paradise just about everywhere.)"
    • francesca 10.1

      28 May 2020 at 3:27 pm

      Perhaps a little shortsighted

      The next pandemic could start in a Kansas hog farm, or a Vietnamese wet market or a Japanese or Indian factory farm .

      http://www.alive-net.net/english/en-farm/factory.html

      https://www.firstpost.com/india/inhumane-unregulated-animal-agriculture-practices-in-india-extract-a-heavy-toll-on-us-and-the-environment-6961421.html
    • Adrian 10.2

      28 May 2020 at 4:43 pm

      NZ companies have been regularily pulling out of manufacturing in China when they find quality and supply failures. An Oamaru ? sock manufacturer has bought production home and quality has gone up and costs have gone down. interestingly they are able to do it with new Italian machinery something the Italians are still world leaders at.
      • Dennis Frank 10.2.1

        28 May 2020 at 5:15 pm

        Good to hear that! I'm old enough to have grown up when kiwi-made clothes were the usual. The market is the test, of course…
11. Morrissey 11

    28 May 2020 at 3:49 pm

    Horrible, horrible, horrible

    Watch these "journalists" and autocue readers pushing Amazon's cynical propaganda….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrgrp72vcV8
12. adam 12

    28 May 2020 at 4:11 pm

    Just in case your in denial about the real world – there are wild cat strikes and direct action all across the USA as their economy melts.

    Because the left is waking up to the reality, that organising on class grounds is the only answer.

    https://industrialworker.org/organize-the-class-not-just-the-workplace/

    You could sit there and wait for a government tethered to hard right economics to make a change in your life – or you could organise. The choice is yours.
    • Tiger Mountain 12.1

      28 May 2020 at 5:07 pm

      Agree. A General Strike would sit Trump on his arse.

      Some direct action here is needed now in respect of getting the Labour Caucus attention on the matter of finally retiring Rogernomics and its neo liberal structural elements throughout the public sector. The Govt. has transferred $billions to the capitalist class and petit bourgeois of this country and little to the working-class in the C19 bailouts. The likes of Fletchers, AirNZ and CHH are going to sack 1000s regardless! One man band self employed have taken loans they will likely never repay from other taxpayers. It will be time for action soon enough as rents go unpaid and people unfed.

      The class nature of NZ with hundreds of thousands of self employed and SMEs and provincials stuck in the 1950s, makes it difficult to organise–including a non fighting central labour organisation–NZCTU, a failure since its 1987 inception. But nonetheless a way can always be found.

      Uniting all who can be united around some immediate goals should be priority of all leftists.
13. Fireblade 13

    28 May 2020 at 5:29 pm

    

    https://www.twitter.com/NatsLeader/status/1265801987683041280
    • Barfly 13.1

      28 May 2020 at 5:46 pm

      And very "Bigly " hands- quote “Todd Conehead”
    • Incognito 13.2

      28 May 2020 at 5:58 pm

      It is a beautiful plan! When Steven Joyce has fact-checked it for hidden holes, I will personally tweet it, at 3:00 AM, wearing my MAGA National Party hat and nothing else.
    • Fireblade 13.3

      28 May 2020 at 6:50 pm

      Todd Muller finally announces the Nats plan for economic recovery.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw
14. Barfly 14

    28 May 2020 at 6:46 pm

    well wow 2 out of it to speak sensibly- such is my life -oddly i have faith in the country's direction – the national party seems to have borked itself so funny good fortune to all standanista's good fortune for the future
15. pat 15

    28 May 2020 at 6:58 pm

    "Get real"

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018748311/coronavirus-adrian-orr-confident-nz-financial-system-can-handle-virus-blow

    RNZ going to have to up their game if they want to continue to interview Mr Orr.
16. Herodotus 16

    28 May 2020 at 7:53 pm

    How can an organisation that made only a few months ago ONLY made $929m in 6 months ($155m/mth)!!! Now find this acceptable ??? Perhaps banks should as a solution NOT pay TAX times are tough for these banks 😢

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12226800

    New Zealand's largest bank, ANZ, has asked its contractors to take a pay cut of 20 per cent until the end of September.

    “The economic environment has changed, and we are responding by making changes across the business,” she said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300022941/anz-asks-contractors-to-take-a-pay-cut
17. ianmac 17

    28 May 2020 at 8:13 pm

    The National Party have had weeks if not months to produce their plan. To be very critical of the Government actions they must prove competence with credible alternative plans.

    Surely the GST "refund" could only be on recent purchases and not the GST collected on customer sales.

    In any case would the taxpayers get upset that they would still pay 15% while business get a 15% discount?
18. Nic 181 18

    28 May 2020 at 8:16 pm

    When I protest about the price of milk, beef or lamb in NZ I am told I have to pay the price of the overseas market. When overseas farmers have a potato glut and we might get cheaper chips, NZ farmers ask us not to buy them! It sounds like, “farmers way always” and bugger the consumers. If I see cheap chips I will fill my boots. They want the right to pollute waterways and the right to rip us off too!!!
19. Fireblade 19

    28 May 2020 at 8:31 pm

    Cringeworthy Muller moments.

    https://www.twitter.com/D00m95/status/1265645303748628485
    • Barfly 19.1

      28 May 2020 at 10:43 pm

      Brutal
20. sumsuch 20

    28 May 2020 at 11:20 pm

    What matters most? According to scientific proof , climate change. Or 100 times 1939. Yet and yet. Disagree with me please.

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