Open mike 28/07/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 28th, 2024 - 55 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

55 comments on “Open mike 28/07/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    28 July 2024 at 8:56 am

    Government cuts funding to farm gas programme it is touting as answer to agricultural gas

    In June, the government's commitment to the fund was highlighted in a press release about the government pulling agriculture out of New Zealand's emissions pricing scheme – a campaign promise to farmers by members of the Coalition.

    The government has been criticised for its decision to delay the date when farmers pay for some of their planet-heating gases.

    Methane and nitrous oxide gases from dairy, beef and sheep make up almost half the country's emissions profile but producers do not pay for these emissions the way emitters of carbon dioxide from vehicles and factories do.

    The government's June press release about pulling agriculture out of New Zealand's emissions pricing scheme said the government was "investing further in R&D to develop practical tools to help lower on-farm emissions while protecting production."

    Chloe tries to make sense of them …

    Green Party co-leader Chloe Swarbrick says the "maths are not mathing" in the government's claims.

    "But we also have to realise that we are grappling …with the hard scientific fundamentals for life on earth as we know it and we have to go with what we know works."

    "We have been having this debate about pricing in the agricultural sector for two decades."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/523341/government-cuts-funding-to-farm-gas-programme-it-is-touting-as-answer-to-agricultural-gas

    I would add…why dont Farmers..reduce the number of stock wallowing in mud and shit ? Of course a one word answer. $Profit !

    Surely apart from the Animal's welfare..this would also reduce emissions ? But… $Profit. : (

    There needs to be consequences …not being visited 13 plus times by MPI !

    And 1News Link….

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/07/26/southland-dairy-farmer-facing-prosecution-for-animal-welfare-offences/

    • Ad 1.1
      28 July 2024 at 12:58 pm

      This special topic Treasury paper essentially says agriculture particularly dairy just isn't going to dig New Zealand out of the massive trade hole that it is in.

      Our recovery will be down to a full return to tourism in better numbers and higher value stays.

      "Continued recovery in tourism will play a key role in the improvement in the services balance and the overall current account deficit."

      https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-and-commentary/rangitaki-blog/feu-special-topic-outlook-current-account

      That, and a gradually declining exchange rate, would do a lot to help us.

      • AB 1.1.1
        28 July 2024 at 4:21 pm

        Yes – but in that scenario we have to compare the increased GHG emissions from long-haul flights by extra tourists with the decline in agricultural emissions. Depending on how that comparison stacks up, the only gain may be that we don't need to count those air travel emissions as 'ours' because they do not occur onshore – thus making it easier to meet our Paris commitments. But the emissions don't go away despite that.

        • Ad 1.1.1.1
          28 July 2024 at 8:01 pm

          We are always going to have greenhouse gas emissions from our 2 core industries. It's just who we are now.

          You can power down all you like but if we stay in this scale of deficit, you might find the government can't afford your NZSuper.

        • Michael Scott 1.1.1.2
          30 July 2024 at 5:09 pm

          There are more GHG emissions from data centres than the aviation industry. And we're about to build a number in NZ.

          [lprent: If you want to assert statements of fact, then provide substantive links. This will be your only warning. ]

          • lprent 1.1.1.2.1
            30 July 2024 at 5:47 pm

            Complete bullshit by a really stupid troll..

            NZ has a electricity generating capacity that is approximately 80-90% non GHG emitting in operations. Depends on the year. Read wikipedia.

            Most of the operational GHGs for data centres are related to their usage of electricity. If the generation doesn’t generate GHGs then nor do the data centres.

            The aviation industry in NZ relies almost entirely on fossil carbon.

            So here is my assertion of fact. What are you – an dumbarse american troll? Or just moron who parrots them without bothering to think? Or just a old fossil who never managed to get your head out of the early 20th century.

            Based on your stupid comment, you seem to think that we site data centres right next bunker oil fired powered station like some nation from the 19th century. In reality, data centres are being deliberately sited so that they don’t rely on fossil fuels. They’re being set up where we have hydro (waikato, southern alps) or solar power plants (northland) or geothermal (central north island) in place or going in to produce supply. Eventually wind should gain enough capacity to join that.

            The only significiant fossil generation capability in NZ is at Huntly, currently mostly burning gas, but with some coal when we have dry years. In essence it is in a slow shutdown without a fossil fuel replacement.

            BTW: if you want to make assertions of fact, false or true (unlikely in your case), then get off your capacious couch centred arse and provide a link to back it up. Otherwise it just leaves me free to speculate on just how stupid you actually are.

          • lprent 1.1.1.2.2
            30 July 2024 at 5:49 pm

            see my mod note.

          • Michael Scott 1.1.1.2.3
            30 July 2024 at 7:26 pm

            I read somewhere that data centres are worse than aviation for emissions but can't remember where.

            Looked on google and found:

            Data centers account for 2.5% to 3.7% of global GHG emissions. Data center emissions exceed GHG emissions from the aviation industry (2.4%) and other activities that fuel the global economy.

            Carbon Footprint of Data Centers & Data Storage Per Country …

            8 Billion Trees

            https://8billiontrees.c

  2. Anker 2
    28 July 2024 at 10:40 am

    [deleted]

    [I deleted this claim without a link. Please see my last reply to you to understand what is expected here – weka]

    [I’m also putting a whole comment in trash. The menstruation/menopause one sounded interesting, but you have to provide a link so we know what you are talking about – weka]

    • weka 2.1
      28 July 2024 at 2:07 pm

      mod note. If you having a technical problem linking, please let me know and I will see if I can help.

  3. joe90 3
    28 July 2024 at 11:08 am

    Narrated by the author.

    (if you have the stomach)

    https://archive.org/details/HillbillyElegy/01-Introduction.mp3

    • adam 3.1
      29 July 2024 at 12:11 am

      What's narrated by the author?

    • tWig 3.2
      29 July 2024 at 3:01 pm

      I read Vance's book three or four years ago, before all this hype. I found it quite a good biographical read, in terms of explaining the hard-scrabble defeatism of generational rural poverty. The area he grew up in has had more than a 100 years of capitalist exploitation, in mines and factories. His book did not make me think he is an arsehole.

      Vance at least has a moral journey at his core. You don't just convert to Catholicism for the fun of it, and moreover, he has an interfaith marriage, so the conversion is personal. Can't even imagine Trump thinking about anything higher than his next fleeting desire.

      I wonder if Vance is a dark horse. He may have changed his public opinion of Trump as Hitler, but does his private one remain the same? Although Thiel has fronted up with Vance's money stake into the highest level of US and world politics, he is a young man, and Trump may drop dead of spleen tomorrow. I figure Trump does not have the longevity of Murdoch, he likes his Cokes and hamburgers too much. Certainly Vance would be a saner leader of the US, and has truly pulled himself up by his bootstraps, unlike the unlikeable Trump.

      • SPC 3.2.1
        29 July 2024 at 3:07 pm

        It's nyet from me for a Mr Gilead.

        • tWig 3.2.1.1
          30 July 2024 at 12:17 pm

          I am trying to find a silver lining in a potential Trump victory, in part. I do think Vance is a better potential president than Palin.

  4. joe90 4
    28 July 2024 at 11:14 am

    Dopey pricks are reaching and this is the best they can come up with.

    /

    A man who was taught by US First Lady Jill Biden when he was a child was caught with €330,000 worth of ketamine in his suitcase at Dublin Airport last year, a court has heard

    https://www.longfordleader.ie/news/national-news/1564878/man-taught-by-joe-biden-s-wife-as-a-child-caught-with-330k-of-ketamine-at-dublin-airport.html

  5. joe90 5
    28 July 2024 at 12:26 pm

    Bernie's in.

    @BernieSanders

    I want to thank the 800 people in Portland, Maine who joined me this morning at a high-energy rally. We must defeat Trump, elect VP @KamalaHarris, and create a government that works for all, not just the 1%.

    https://x.com/BernieSanders/status/1817243928548319732

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/biden-drops-out-updates/?id=112113289

  6. Ad 6
    28 July 2024 at 12:51 pm

    The Greens have passed on the opportunity of their AGM to get MP Tana out of Parliament.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/greens-giving-rogue-mp-last-chance-resign

    But if you don't have to leave your job and you have nearly 3 years on $170,000 + benefits, why would you?

    • Cricklewood 6.1
      28 July 2024 at 3:10 pm

      They really need to get on with if for no other reason to get the next person on the list some parlimentary experience before the next election.

    • Bearded Git 6.2
      28 July 2024 at 3:49 pm

      I heard that the Greens were giving the branches a few weeks to have input into the Tana situation. This may avert party infighting

      My guess is the Waka legislation will happen in a couple of months.

      • Cricklewood 6.2.1
        28 July 2024 at 6:32 pm

        Looks like one of the factions has thrown their toys out of the cot as it were…

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350358045/ruptures-emerge-over-greens-handling-darleen-tana

      • Dennis Frank 6.2.2
        28 July 2024 at 7:14 pm

        Well according to the tv news tonight the infighting happened earlier today – senior pasifika members have resigned. Claimed Tana was being treated unfairly or something like that. Depicted as a fundamental culture clash, which intrigued me. I guess we'll get a framing of that in the media tomorrow.

        Chloe told viewers the issue is going out to all branches for a collective decision, but it ought to get done promptly. Even a month would look like slack performance.

    • bwaghorn 6.3
      28 July 2024 at 3:53 pm

      Hope they never become the biggest party if the left, wishy washy dreamers.

  7. Michael Scott 7
    28 July 2024 at 2:07 pm

    Good article in Point of Order on Chloe's baptism by fire into the Greens leadership.

    https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/07/27/chloe-swarbricks-education-in-disaster-management/#more-30437

    The author makes a point that I hadn't considered re a lot of the current Greens support moving back to Labour when Hipkins is replaced.

    "However, by any assessment, the party Swarbrick has come to rule is in spectacular disarray. Although it is still riding relatively high in the polls — and regularly higher than its election result of 11.6 per cent — a chunk of that support will undoubtedly peel away once Labour rolls Chris Hipkins and replaces him with someone less tainted by a deep connection to the Ardern years."

    • Barfly 7.1
      28 July 2024 at 2:36 pm

      DNFTT

    • Ad 7.2
      28 July 2024 at 3:24 pm

      Swarbrick could shoot a dairy farmer on mainstreet Te Kuiti and her base would still start at 11%. Greens and NZF have peeled away easily 9% of Labour's base since 2002 and shows no signs of coming back.

      And expecting Hipkins to be rolled is just fanciful. No one in Labour has the guts to roll his sorry ass deadweight down the political hill where he belongs.

      • Michael Scott 7.2.1
        28 July 2024 at 4:46 pm

        David Lange seemed to me to come from nowhere to lead the party. He was intellectually astounding and visionary in those first years so maybe someone similar will turn up.

        Chloe Swarbrick's stated goal is to make Labour the minor party on the left and assume Labours mantle. She has told her followers that the Greens may need policies more appealing to mainstream voters, I hope she drops the wealth tax and concentrates on the environment.

        • weka 7.2.1.1
          28 July 2024 at 5:11 pm

          You can’t solve environmental problems without solving human poverty. Both have to be paid for somehow. This is core to green politics and is very unlikely to change.

          We need better poling on vote change but I’m willing to be some of the shift from Labour to Greens is because of social and economic policy

          • weka 7.2.1.1.1
            28 July 2024 at 5:13 pm

            I’d go further and say that if weren’t for the issues around Turei’s speech, the rise of Ardern and Labour’s handling of the pandemic, the Greens would have significantly more MPs in parliament.

    • Bearded Git 7.3
      28 July 2024 at 3:53 pm

      All those Points of Order are written by right wing authors. The Greens are not in "disarray".

      The Greens are polling a steady 12 per cent and once Tana has been chucked out it will be sorted. Chloe is showing great maturity for a 28 year old.

    • AB 7.4
      28 July 2024 at 4:36 pm

      Thanks for the reminder that the bizarre amount of oxygen given to the Tana story by shabby little propaganda outfits from the NZ Herald on down is not due to any actual interest in Tana. It's all aimed at damaging the political career of Swarbrick and at eroding her will to keep going rather than clearing out for a better gig elsewhere.

      I'd say well done to Swarbrick for sufficiently scaring the sort people who should be scared regularly – to the point that in an attempt to damage her they're boring us all with this flatulent verbiage that's flogging an unimportant story.

      • Dennis Frank 7.4.1
        28 July 2024 at 7:27 pm

        Media will always be dead keen to feast on any own-goal by the Greens. I liked her stance on the news tonight. Much improved over recent performances. I get a sense they thrashed the issue out quite well today. They've been pathetic for so long I felt quite reassured! Anyway, we'll see how it plays out with the folk at large.

        As long as Labour keep lying down on the job the Greens can secure competitive advantage – but an intellectual position on the malaise in the global economy & neoliberal ideology remains conspicuous by its absence. Does it hurt when they try to use their brains? If so, we ought to feel compassion I suppose. Still, we know Labour is way too stupid to even consider the possibility of a way out of the morass.

        • bwaghorn 7.4.1.1
          29 July 2024 at 7:57 am

          Media will always be dead keen to feast on any own-goal by the Greens

          I've noticed you don't mind being at the table yourself!!

  8. joe90 8
    28 July 2024 at 3:04 pm

    Great read.

    How did the children of Indian immigrants reach the top of US establishments in just one generation? Should we view them as part of the elite or categorize them as BIPOC — Black, Indigenous, and People of Color? Are they more likely to vote – or now, increasingly run – as Democrats or Republicans? And what does all this mean for the broader political landscape and policies on immigration, race, and DEI?

    I answer all these questions by explaining (1) the composition of Indian Americans in the US, especially from the lens of caste; (2) the origins of when and how Indian Americans came to the US; (3) the political leanings and views of the more recent Indian immigrants on immigration reform and DEI as a relatively small minority in the US.

    https://srajagopalan.substack.com/p/kamala-harris-usha-vance-and-the

  9. SPC 9
    28 July 2024 at 4:56 pm

    The tradition of no war during the Olympics is sadly one not kept in modern times.

    And Christian kulturekampf warriors raised objections about the ceremony, apparently confusing a scene said to be based on Greek legends of the feasting (music, dance and drinking by waterways) of Dionysus/Bacchus with the Last Supper.

    And being Christians they objected to the sort of people present, ignoring part of the gospel …

    Political posers, of the age of Trump and Putin …

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350358146/drag-queens-shine-olympics-opening-last-supper-tableau-draws-criticism

    Why the artistic directer did not have water nymphs in tempting red and innocent white one piece costumes? Dupont would not have missed such an opportunity.

    • Visubversa 9.1
      28 July 2024 at 5:33 pm

      That is just froth and bubble.

      This is the real problem – men in women's sports. Including the Olympics.

      https://reduxx.info/breaking-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes/

      "Speaking to TASS News, Kremlev claimed that the tests had proven the athletes in question “had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded from the sports events.”

      Among the disqualified was Imane Khelif, an Algerian boxer who had been set to challenge Yang Liu of China in the welterweight final. Khelif was removed from the gold medal fight, and Thailand’s Janjaem Suwannapheng, who had lost to Khelif in the semi-finals, was allowed to proceed to fight Yang instead.

      In a public statement, the IBA wrote that “a boxer from Algeria, Imane Khelif, was excluded from the IBA World Boxing Championships due to the failure to meet the IBA eligibility criteria.” But the Algerian Olympic Committee denied the IBA’s claims, attributing Khelif’s disqualification to a “conspiracy” to prevent Algeria from having a gold medal in boxing."

      • SPC 9.1.1
        28 July 2024 at 5:59 pm

        They are listed as having qualified …66kg near the end of the list.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2024_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Qualification

        July 28 northern time is the first round (32) in the 66kg category.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2024_Summer_Olympics

        Both are seeded to the Round of 16

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2024_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_66_kg

      • adam 9.1.2
        29 July 2024 at 12:23 am

        FFS it's the cheating Canadians which are the real problem.

        Death to Drones!

        • weka 9.1.3.1
          30 July 2024 at 11:58 am

          that article is a nonsense. It doesn't tell us if they are female, male with a DSD, or trans identified male.

          I thought the Olympics were leaving it up to individual sports bodies to decide. And let's not forget, the IOC has let a convicted child rapist compete. We know where its priorities are.

          • SPC 9.1.3.1.1
            30 July 2024 at 1:50 pm

            Maybe they thought the testing for level of testosterone made it obvious they were either born male or inter-sex.

            It is known that the two have XY chromosomes.

            I thought the Olympics were leaving it up to individual sports bodies to decide

            Sort of, but there are a number of different world boxing organisations and none are currently recognsied by the IOC.

            That means the boxing in Paris is now being run under the auspices of the IOC’s Paris 2024 Boxing Unit

            https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/29/boxers-who-failed-gender-tests-at-world-championships-cleared-to-compete-at-olympics

            Their disqualification was not because of XY chromosomes, but ***

            Khelif was “disqualified just hours before her gold medal showdown against Yang Liu at the 2023 world championships in New Delhi, India, after her elevated ­levels of testosterone failed to meet the eligibility criteria”. The IOC also acknowledges that Lin was “stripped of her bronze medal after failing to meet eligibility requirements based on the results of a biochemical test.

            The IOC is using the Rio Olympic standard, based on testing for testosterone, and the two have passed the test *** at Paris.

            • weka 9.1.3.1.1.1
              30 July 2024 at 3:31 pm

              Maybe they thought the testing for level of testosterone made it obvious they were either born male or inter-sex.

              Then Stuff should have said so, instead of lying that they are female.

              People with DSD, what used to be called intersex, are generally male or female. I say generally, because it's unclear to me if a tiny number of people with a specific DSD it's not possible to tell. But nearly all people with a DSD are male or female. There is no third sex, or half way mix.

              • SPC …
                30 July 2024 at 4:17 pm

                What lie?

                Inter-sex people are either designated male or female at birth. These two like CS, another Olympian, were designated female.

                Are you of the opine that no one with XY chromosomes should be allowed female status?

                • weka …
                  30 July 2024 at 5:04 pm

                  biological sex isn't about designation, it's about material reality. I think you are referring to genitalia and how someone is raised?

                  afaik Caster Semenya is male with a DSD. The DSD they have can only be had by males, and their testosterone levels are those of other men.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya#Intersex_condition

                  However they were raised, they shouldn't be competing against women in sports.

                  I don't know if the boxers have a DSD, but I assume that is what is the issue. It is likely they went through male puberty and have the physical advantages that brings. But we don't know, and this is the problem. The IOC should be making the situation clear, but they can't be trusted because they essentially support males competing in women's sports.

                  They are also controlling how the MSM report on this, via their media policy.

                  For all their rhetoric about gender equity in sport, they, like many others, are willing to throw women under the bus and ignore what women are saying about this. Participation in women's sport shouldn't be about gender identity or gender expression, it's about biology and physiology. Otherwise why have women's sport at all?

                  The IOC had an opportunity here for open, transparent and educational comms and reporting, instead it's a clusterfuck of unclear media, and every worse social media.

          • SPC 9.1.3.1.2
            30 July 2024 at 2:07 pm

            According to feminist website Reduxx, both are thought both are impacted by a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD), a series of medical conditions identified at birth where genitalia is atypical in relation to chromosomes.

            Extra detail, from the Reddux link above.

            DSDs in elite sports first came to public attention during the meteoric rise of South African runner Caster Semenya. Semenya’s rapid improvements in performance beginning in 2009 initially triggered suspicions of drug use, and World Athletics (then called the IAAF) was internationally denounced for requesting Semenya take a test to ascertain his biological sex.

            Most women, including elite female athletes, have natural testosterone levels of 0.12 to 1.79 nanomoles per liter (nmol/L), but Semenya has XY chromosomes and male gonads producing a normal level of testosterone for a male. In 2011, Semenya was measured as having 15.6 and 29.3 nmol/L. Years later, a decision in the Court of Arbitration for Sport revealed that Semenya has a DSD where the normal male sexual development fails in utero, resulting in external genitals that appear to be a vagina at birth, but was in fact an underdeveloped penis.

            Speaking to Reduxx, a representative with the Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS) condemned the confusion that had emerged surrounding the sex of competitors due to the International Olympic Committee’s 2000 decision to end sex-verification screening.

            “The IOC’s decision to end sex-verification screening in 2000 has caused distrust and confusion in women’s sports ever since,” ICONS co-founder Marshi Smith said. “Its 2021 decision to offload the responsibility for international eligibility criteria to individual sporting bodies has resulted in varied standards and widespread chaos among athletes, coaches, officials, and the public.”

  11. gsays 11
    28 July 2024 at 8:01 pm

    Martin Phillipps has passed away.

    He wrote a great many of the songs that were the soundtrack of my life.

    So many band line-ups, I was reminded of Mark E. Smith saying "If it's me and yr Granny on bongos, it's The Fall".

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350358343/frontman-rock-band-chills-martin-phillipps-dies-60

    This is a great doco.

    https://www.nzfilm.co.nz/films/chills-triumph-tragedy-martin-phillipps

  12. Ad 12
    28 July 2024 at 8:44 pm

    If you're wondering how J.D.Vance was funded and accelerated to become the Ohio Senator with zero political experience, Peter Thiel was the guy who got him there.

    And Peter Thiel has finally, apparently, been defeated in New Zealand.

    This is of course the multibillionaire that PM John Key gave citizen ship to get some NZ-beneficial deal.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/us-billionaire-peter-thiel-abandons-lake-wanaka-lodge-build/D6GURR7ZFZEDLBYDN4SIWOBPMQ/

    There's still a wee chance that Thiel will re-apply under this "Fast Track" legislation. But for now the win is the win. And it's about as big as it gets.

    • Hunter Thompson II 12.1
      29 July 2024 at 9:47 am

      Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Thiel have a presence in NZ of about 5 days before getting his citizenship?

      Knowing the right people is all that matters.