Open mike 28/10/2020

59 comments on “Open mike 28/10/2020 ”

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1. Sacha 1

   28 October 2020 at 6:16 am

   The simplest answer can be the right one. https://publicaddress.net/speaker/rewarding-competence/

   Voters delivered the Left their election victory based on their rediscovery of the power of government to aid society; and to stay in power, they’ll need to continue wielding it. It will be up to all of us to make sure they do it well.
   • Sacha 1.1

     28 October 2020 at 6:20 am

     The Joe Nunweek article linked from Drummond's one is in the same vein. https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/25-10-2020/expecting-less-or-more-of-labours-new-voters/

     I’m also not a psephologist, but I’m happy to suggest that some (but not many) ardent National voters voted Labour strategically. I’m happy to suggest some (but not many) voters across the entire country voted for a person or a party they profoundly disliked for an elaborate reason, in various combinations. But even waiting on the NZES, I’m willing to say that a lot of communities voted Labour, and for Jacinda Ardern, because they genuinely wanted to do so.
     • Sacha 1.1.1

       28 October 2020 at 6:23 am

       And on a satirical note..

       https://twitter.com/hamish_keith/status/1320896061091631106
       • swordfish 1.1.1.1

         28 October 2020 at 7:13 pm

         I’ve deleted this comment … outside chance it could be considered borderline as far as putting the site in some sort of legal jeopardy.
         • Sacha 1.1.1.1.1

           28 October 2020 at 7:48 pm

           Now I'm curious..
           • swordfish 1.1.1.1.1.1

             28 October 2020 at 8:03 pm

             Be quick … this post will self-destruct in the not-too-distant future 🙂

             https://sub-zero-politics.blogspot.com/2020/10/the-offending-comment-ill-just.html
             • Sacha …

               29 October 2020 at 7:10 am

               I missed the window. Thank you for trying.
   • Gabby 1.2

     28 October 2020 at 4:22 pm

     I wonder if it's ever crossed Labour's mind that there are more tenants of voting age than landlords.
     • Andre 1.2.1

       28 October 2020 at 4:25 pm

       But do they vote?
       • Sacha 1.2.1.1

         28 October 2020 at 6:28 pm

         and do they donate?
2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

   28 October 2020 at 6:59 am

   'Westland Mayor Bruce Smith said the Greens' hard-line stance on conservation issues had impacted negatively on the West Coast, or were about to, including the proposed closure of whitebaiting rivers, a general negativity towards mining and the push to protect stewardship land.

   He said he believed a lot of Coasters had voted Labour to kick the Greens out.

   "If the Government brings in Greens just to keep them handy for next time, there'll be pushback all right." '

   'Greymouth mayor Tania Gibson agreed.

   "A lot of people voted Labour this time to keep the Greens out and the Government should take note," Mrs Gibson said.'

   And needless to say…also maga hat owner Alan Birchfield…included

   https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast/coasters-divided-over-conservation-direction
   • Matiri 2.1

     28 October 2020 at 7:19 am

     The preliminary election result for West Coast-Tasman (my electorate too) is consistent with the national result. With twelve!! electorate candidates this election, WCT has more than its fair share of 'alternative' views.

     Labour 46.6%

     National 26%

     2017 election – Labour 39.9% National 37%
   • Sacha 2.2

     28 October 2020 at 7:26 am

     He said he believed a lot of Coasters had voted Labour to kick the Greens out.

     That's the trouble with false narratives being seeded so fast – others like him can repeat them without any challenge, including from media who should know better.
     • Craig H 2.2.1

       28 October 2020 at 8:38 am

       I can believe that a few voters went that way at the end, but the polls were pretty clear for months that mostly it was just that people liked Labour.
     • Bearded Git 2.2.2

       28 October 2020 at 9:18 am

       Agreed Sacha….the media will find any way it can to attack the Greens. Many on the Right must be livid that the Greens did so wonderfully well despite being written-off, invented scandals levelled at them, attacks on their Wealth Tax etc

       More worrying is that just now on RNZ Morning Report the political correspondent seemed sure that only Marama Davidson and James Shaw will be offered ministerial posts outside cabinet.

       No places for Genter or Sage. It's almost as though Labour believes the complete rubbish the media is spouting about people voting Labour to keep the Greens out.
       • Anne 2.2.2.1

         28 October 2020 at 9:58 am

         Yeah – clever strategy from the Nats and the media. It prompted some tribal Labour voters like myself to party vote Green. We played a role in bouncing the Greens back from political oblivion. We might not have done so if they had played a straight ball. Dickheads.

         Genter and Sage are generally recognised as having been competent associate ministers so I think hope they will be allowed to continue in their roles.
   • Psycho Milt 2.3

     28 October 2020 at 12:46 pm

     He said he believed a lot of Coasters had voted Labour to kick the Greens out.

     Everyone's free to believe whatever they like. For example, I believe a lot of Coasters voted Labour because they like that Jacinda Ardern dresses in clothes from NZ fashion designers. That's the great thing about beliefs – no evidence required.
     • AB 2.3.1

       28 October 2020 at 2:24 pm

       Indeed. I party voted Green, so lots of Nat voters would vote Labour to keep the Greens out, so National would look weak, so they would lose the gun lobby to ACT which would amplify their pro-gun message. Sometimes I have to hug myself at how cunning I am – voting Green in order to support ACT, a cunning plan worthy of Baldrick himself.
       • lprent 2.3.1.1

         28 October 2020 at 5:53 pm

         Reads more like Blackadder the first.
3. Patricia Bremner 3

   28 October 2020 at 7:19 am

   I think most voted Labour as a safe haven. The common refrain "They have done well" the unspoken part of that "In spite of…." take your choice of any number of things or people.

   National are never going to say, "they voted for Labour because they didn't trust us".
   • I Feel Love 3.1

     28 October 2020 at 8:58 am

     The MSM are also never going to say, "they voted for Labour because they didn't trust us".
   • Rosemary McDonald 3.2

     28 October 2020 at 9:08 am

     …most voted Labour as a safe haven.

     And some didn't because they know that for the most vulnerable in our community Labour offer no more of a safe haven than National.
   • Anne 3.3

     28 October 2020 at 10:01 am

     They're never going to say :"they voted for Labour because they trust them" either. Hence the irrational meme highlighted by Hamish Keith's satirical tweet.
4. xanthe 4

   28 October 2020 at 9:28 am

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/formal-review-into-governments-covid-19-response-would-distraction-chris-hipkins-says

   I will participate in any such review and try to bring attention onto the misconduct of many media outlets and the misuse of the opposition led covid response committee.
5. truck driver 5

   28 October 2020 at 9:45 am

   So why was the PM lying to us about border testing before the election?

   After all this isnt even disputed as it is in the official records.

   [lprent: What she reported according to my recollection was what she (and Bloomfield) had been told and she expressed it exactly that way. That is part of the “official record”. Your statement is maliciously incorrect in that you are stating that she stated something that was incorrect. After all PMs do not physically go around and personally run border testing themselves. They make policy and others then implement and report back to them.

   So you are lying through your teeth in your statement. You are also claiming an authority (‘official records’)in bad faith. You didn’t provide a link or any support for your statement. I’d say that you are a simpleminded moronic liar peddling false facts – and quite unsuited to this forum (see the policy).

   I’d suggest you try the sewer aka kiwiblog where this kind of stupid lying is not only tolerated, but also encouraged. Come back when you increase in your ability to discriminate between what are substantiated facts and what are merely your opinions – plus being able to clearly express to others which is which. ]
6. mac1 6

   28 October 2020 at 10:38 am

   One National grief point has now been laid to rest.

   No more will we hear from them that they were gypped as the largest single party being prevented from forming a government.

   In the immortal words of Mike Cullen that he never uttered, "We won. You lost. Eat that."

   Now the meme is it was an intentional loss to prevent the Greens from forcing their way into power.

   If that was the message, how come Collins was saying to two vote National to keep out the Greens eight days out from election day? Don't they listen? Did they mishear Blue for Red?

   Well, one thing about the National voter is that they are finely tuned to the nuances of meaning in the words Blue and Red, and not likely to be that stupid as to confuse Collins' message.

   Were they instead giving the electoral finger to Collins and National by voting Red? The socialist bogeyman doesn’t work any more. The Greens aren’t that terrifying, either. Fear is a poor substitute for true insight.

   Were they saying that we are cool with Labour; they can be trusted; they are in control; they know what they are doing; give me substance over slogans, action over abuse, compassion over greed?
   • tc 6.1

     28 October 2020 at 1:07 pm

     IMO many were simply turned off by Punch N Judy who appeared hell bent on a crusade towards Blinglish's 2002 result. 6 elections later the demographics aren't the same.

     Collins couldn't hide her contempt, Gez's conspiracy corner, Woody and Boags DP smear (the whitewash fooled nobody) then cap it all by insulting overweight people.

     They got the result their car crash of a campaign merited. Bipartisanship had votes in it but crusher knows best.
     • greywarshark 6.1.1

       28 October 2020 at 1:32 pm

       In the immortal words of Mike Cullen that he never uttered, "We won. You lost. Eat that."

       I'm not really surprised to be told he didn't say that. I didn't think that he was the sort to come out with such honesty, more of a behind-the-scenes wrecking ball on lower income people and the jobs that were there bread-and-butter.
       • mac1 6.1.1.1

         28 October 2020 at 1:51 pm

         Some of what Cullen did say, including a sub voce description of Key. Read here…….

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/2329749/Regrets-I-ve-had-a-few-Michael-Cullen-reflects
         • greywarshark 6.1.1.1.1

           28 October 2020 at 4:18 pm

           edit
           Points I note in this are that Cullen didn't understand the life and limits that ordinary people are constrained by. And also Labour has skated round the edges of committing to the low income people that are their raison d'etre.

           The light bulb matters that irritated:

           • The fact that Europe and America and Australia had either done it already or decided to carry out the policy seemed to assure Labour that we should adopt the same without thought.
           • The government was sensitive to the charge that it was Nannyish, he says, but the rage over the light-bulb ban seemed "highly irrational". The new bulbs were more efficient, less expensive and more environmentally desirable.

           First I have great distaste for us following automatically what other countries are doing, usually western.

           Second the reason for many in NZ not wanting all new tech bulbs was because they were more expensive. He is highly irrational saying otherwise. The cost per year for the bulb, and the lower electricity cost its different type produced, show cheapness on an amortised basis. But the cost to buy the bulb at the shop rose about 300% on average. Three bulbs needed (incandescent) @ $1.10 = $3.30 | three new type @ $4.10 each (possibly more) = $12.30.

           And he says that he had to accept Sue Bradford's Bill as if they did not have the ability to amend with more effective legislation:
           The anti-smacking bill was another strange case: even though National ended up voting for it, Labour got all the flak. Cullen says Labour could not have avoided the issue posed by green Sue Bradford's bill. Section 59 of the Crimes Act had led to the acquittal of people who had made quite serious attacks on children. And it fitted Labour policy, so opposing the measure would make people say it had no principles.

           Cullen says that Labour needed to deal with the 'acquittal of people who had made quite serious attacks on children'. What's this 'quite' – they were serious attacks even murderous. An Anti-Smacking Bill was not going to stop such attacks. I remember Craig Manukau aged 11 kicked to death by the male in his life for going to a school event, also a list of others*.

           Craig's sad story from 1992: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/faces-of-innocents/81267814/faces-of-innocents-craig-manukau

           Briefly re Craig: …the horrifying truth was that Craig Manukau's father went to a school disco, removed his son, took him home and kicked him to death while his mother turned up the radio to drown out the noise.

           And one person's response – to become a social worker. But Judge Mason's verbal comment below says that the social work system was badly run and ineffective which is really wilful neglect in my opinion. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/linda-hall-protecting-our-children-is-vital/IJEGGC5RFRDJ3VFMO5P4EQXANE/

           Bringing in non-smacking legislation was a statement about the state deploring this and being able to punish it – no biblical buts. But it did not try hard to conquer and overcome the actual violence in people being passed on to children, the vulnerable, and the violent parent syndrome.

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73681718/a-trail-of-broken-promises-1992-2015
           There was a report on CYPS and this is a great video and comment – listen to this. 'Former judge Ken Mason discusses his historical review of CYFS':

           …1992, the year District Court Judge Ken Mason released a report saying the Children and Young Persons Service (CYPS) was "dizzied and demoralised".

           It found widespread incompetence with staff lacking adequate training. CYPS general manager Robin Wilson said Mason "got it badly wrong", but no one from the department contacted Mason to discuss the report's contents….

           If violence meant a period of jail isolation and then a period of workshopping and personal thought; some determined and focussed action one on one with the instigator with jail for the recalcitrants that would have been a good Labour thing to do; instead it is just the neo-lib punitive approach.

           *https://childabuseinnz.wordpress.com/my-memorial/
           • mac1 6.1.1.1.1.1

             28 October 2020 at 4:33 pm

             What Cullen said. "The fact that Europe and America and Australia had either done it already or decided to do it seemed to be completely irrelevant."

             What you extrapolated from what Cullen said. "The fact that Europe and America and Australia had either done it already or decided to carry out the policy seemed to assure Labour that we should adopt the same without thought.

             Where's the 'without thought'? Not what he said, greywarshark, not what he said.
             • greywarshark …

               28 October 2020 at 4:42 pm

               Well I have changed the wording slightly as indicated by my 'edit'. And i have seen that adopting overseas policy is a default position in a number of governments. We find policies used overseas and install them here without apparent thought for how they will work here – if there is thought then it is fleeting and dismisses unintended consequences.
               • mac1 …

                 28 October 2020 at 4:55 pm

                 Sorry, mate, it's not 'slightly'.

                 You said 'without thought'. Cullen is saying we did as several other countries did, which would have meant he had considered that and the actual actions taken. He is also saying that opponents of what he had done need to consider that his policy had also been considered and enacted by other countries, using that evidence as support for his having done the same.
           • greywarshark 6.1.1.1.1.2

             28 October 2020 at 4:37 pm

             And a frenzied stabbing from a male incensed that his partner was able to make a life with a job, and so he had to cut her down to size literally. Meanwhile their poor child had to endure this foul stuff, and whatever culture, we have this sour attitude that rises like bile and man becomes vengeful God.

             https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/massey-stabbing-victim-came-to-nz-for-a-better-life-ex-partner-was-fixated-with-it/M73SFFPFNTZIKNCSUODPZ7B3SQ/
       • alwyn 6.1.1.2

         28 October 2020 at 2:13 pm

         In the interests of accuracy one must agree that he didn't say precisely what you quote.

         What he did say, on 9 September 2000 was.

         "Eat that. You lost, we won" Same words but a slightly different order. Hansard for that date is not on-line I'm afraid.
         • mac1 6.1.1.2.1

           28 October 2020 at 3:52 pm

           In 2009 Farrar wrote, "

           “Eat that! You lost, we won, it [the ECA] goes! It is as simple as that!”

           The quote, according to Farrar, referred to the disappearance of the ECA in September 2000, not the election result of 1999, the context I gave it. https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/04/cullen_did_say_it_after_all.html
           • ianmac 6.1.1.2.1.1

             28 October 2020 at 6:55 pm

             And I seem to remember that Cullen was heard to mutter that in relation to the 2002 National loss. "You lost. We won. Eat that!" Not in a speech.

             Maybe it was an echo of Farrar's 1999 quote though I do not recall his one.
         • Incognito 6.1.1.2.2

           28 October 2020 at 8:55 pm

           It was 9 August 2000:

           Thirdly, the Government is determined to pass this bill. It was an election commitment. Nine years ago, when Helen Clark was absent on overseas leave, I rose in this House on the second reading of the Employment Contracts Bill and committed the Labour Party to repealing the Employment Contracts Act. And we will repeal the Employment Contracts Act. Eat that! You lost, we won, it goes! It is as simple as that. Therefore, on Monday morning we will—

           https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Iwfzv-Mt3CRG1Sa2QxTlBVQ2M/view
   • Treetop 6.2

     28 October 2020 at 1:26 pm

     Now that the election is over I just want Labour to start governing from next week being a fresh election cycle.

     Those who did not win need to remember that they are there to serve the voters and not theirselves.
7. Whispering Kate 7

   28 October 2020 at 1:41 pm

   testing
   • Treetop 7.1

     28 October 2020 at 2:18 pm

     Looks like a pass.
8. greywarshark 8

   28 October 2020 at 1:41 pm

   Maeve Binchy in her wisdom of maturity – good to listen to about how we are and what we can think about the world. Good v Bad and What's the Meaning of Life?

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eKBMlu8o30
9. Ad 9

   28 October 2020 at 4:07 pm

   With Shaw coming out of talks with nothing, its ha4d to see them putting something together by Friday to put to their members.

   Bad omen.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1

     28 October 2020 at 5:17 pm

     Bad Omen(s)? You Never Know…
   • Patricia Bremner 9.2

     29 October 2020 at 10:25 am

     Living under a black cloud Ad? Where is your hope?
10. Tricledrown 10

    28 October 2020 at 4:09 pm

    Fox spews Laura Inghram reckons Jacinda Aderns forcing people who don't take compulsory test's in isolation facilities is removing freedoms and is fascist.

    Did they realise we are covid free.
    • Treetop 10.1

      28 October 2020 at 4:13 pm

      What a fool Inghram is.

      What about the rights of those people who get infected and die?
      • McFlock 10.1.1

        28 October 2020 at 4:22 pm

        She doesn't care.

        She's a Haw-Haw for the worst aspects of the current administration.
      • greywarshark 10.1.2

        28 October 2020 at 4:32 pm

        Interesting there is a parallel line from the UK. Nasty and busily crafted, not just a random putdown.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-kiwis-fight-back-after-nz-compared-to-nazi-germany/N5RCKEXHQACFT4RW3R7QNIDQKI/ A right-wing British politician has outraged Kiwis online after likening New Zealand to Nazi Germany in a series of tweets taking aim at Jacinda Ardern and the Government's Covid response.

        Suzanne Evans, a former journalist who hopped from the Conservative Party to the UK Independence Party before ditching politics, regularly shares posts critical of using lockdowns to tackle Covid-19. Yesterday Evans said that "New Zealand now has a fascist government under @jacindaardern. Are you going to act, @amnesty?".

        The comment came above a retweet from fellow lockdown-sceptic Bernie Spofforth, who had shared an edited video containing messages from Dr Ashley Bloomfield and Jacinda Ardern about the policy of moving all positive cases to quarantine facilities and enforcing testing.

        The video spliced together a press briefing from Bloomfield and a Facebook live video from Ardern and added graphics and memes.
    • Gabby 10.2

      28 October 2020 at 4:37 pm

      Thank god she and her fellow fuxxers are a long way away.
      • Treetop 10.2.1

        28 October 2020 at 9:06 pm

        With a bit of luck Evans won't come here because she will need to be tested or do 21 days in isolation.

        Evans needs to focus on Covid in the UK and not in NZ.
    • mac1 10.3

      28 October 2020 at 9:11 pm

      Also, if we live in a fascist state we don't realise it as we have just had an election where 60%+of the people approved of what we have done by voting Green, Labour and even NZF.

      This of course makes a stupidity of a claim that the non-fascist National voters, in order to keep out the Greens, voted for a fascist Labour party…….. as preferable.
11. greywarshark 11

    28 October 2020 at 4:51 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/429289/housing-boom-could-get-worse-economist-warns

    Economists are calling on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand to reinstate lending restrictions, warning the housing market is spiralling out of control.

    In May, the Reserve Bank temporarily removed loan to value ratio (LVR) restrictions, freeing banks to sell mortgages to buyers with small deposits.

    Since June, lending to investors has tripled and last month banks lent out more than $7.3 billion to house buyers – which is an all-time record.

    Sorry Robertson you will have to upset all your mates in financial circles, the tight, closed ones) and set up special rates for just young families and older single people who are wanting a secure home. And it may be that you will need a State Mortgages system, set up through Kiwibank and other NZ owned banks that report to NZ financial entities. Get some steel and show that you're the Right Stuff.
12. Muttonbird 12

    28 October 2020 at 4:55 pm

    Is New Zealand well served by having the dense shit Duncan Garner in a news/entertainment position?

    He is a very, very slow learner:

    I can now see why Jacinda Ardern got your vote and your support.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/duncan-garner-i-can-now-see-why-jacinda-ardern-got-your-vote-and-your-support.html

    Typically, this tone deaf spanner makes it all about him and his privileged social life. He also outs himself as a National Party voter.
13. Gabby 13

    28 October 2020 at 5:21 pm

    In the nicest possible way, trickortreaters might like to far cry toff. Thanks.
14. Peter 14

    28 October 2020 at 5:26 pm

    On Te Karere this afternoon I had my first glimpse of ACT Party MP Nicole McKee with her talking.

    The item was about the shooting up north, the hi-jacking, kidnapping and whatever else went on.

    McKee was described by Newsroom as a 'prominent gun advocate' in a piece 'ACT Party Nicole McKee wants 'commonsense and practicalities' brought back into Government."

    So what did she have? Commonsense and practicalities? No, just a redneck.

    Her answer is to 'sort the gangs out.' Okay Nicole McKee we've got plenty of land up here, how about building us another couple of prisons and we can sort the gangs out by picking them up and locking them away? How about 'moving the economy,' generating economic activity by importing personnel from overseas to staff those jails?

    We need ambulances at the bottom of cliffs as much as we need another useless MP who cannot see what the real problem is and cannot show what leadership and hope look like.

    Full marks to her at least I suppose for not suggesting that miscreants and gangs be shot on sight.
    • greywarshark 14.1

      28 October 2020 at 9:44 pm

      How many NZs see this as an insult to their intelligence, and an indication of her blinkered outlook? Fancy standing for a place in our political entity saying the same things that have been trotted out for decades and been shown to be worse than useless!

      This is a sign that we need a better political system. Each candidate will have to sit and pass a special set of papers that give an overview when finished, of all the things that will need to be understood by newbies, mostly at the 101/201 level.

      There will be explanation of hard science and how it is being utilised in NZ. And a lot of 'soft' science, sociology, study of the importance of early training and secure loving care to build confident little people, who grow right. Understanding statistics, planning, common building materials and tendering and how to get round that. Also entrepreneurship and the importance of paid work in a community.

      I will work out a set of uni papers that I think all should study when I get round to it. How do we contain our irritation, and our disgust at the waste of time and low standards in the choices for representatives in the present system? We have not reacted back to the 'change agents' foisted on us and their ploys that suit sharp financial types good both at calculation with all sorts of figures, and also at how to get power.
15. greywarshark 15

    28 October 2020 at 7:05 pm

    Livestreaming from cawthron inst Nelson now. Souxie Wiles Sereen Adams from the Cawthron on the planet and things….

    http://www.cawthron.live
16. Tricledrown 16

    29 October 2020 at 12:55 am

    How about a 4 day working week it's long over due.

    With AI robots and more mechanization there won't be enough work for everyone.

    20% less gridlock on motorways less stress more productive work places.

    The last time we had a major move forward was at the end of the depression 1936 it helped reduce unemployment and gave people a better work life balance.

    Now is the time to push this idea forward.

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