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Open mike 28/12/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 28th, 2021 - 84 comments
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84 comments on “Open mike 28/12/2021 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    28 December 2021 at 6:41 am

    Young Maori woman breaks through prime-time barrier…

    Newshub’s Oriini Kaipara, who made history in 2019 as the first woman with a moko kauae to anchor a mainstream news bulletin, has come one step closer to achieving her ultimate goal by presenting Three's 6 o'clock news. Kaipara, who has had the traditional lower chin tattoo for nearly three years, is filling in on Newshub Live at 6pm until Thursday

    The bilingual journalist and broadcaster, of Tūhoe, Ngāti Awa, Tūwharetoa and Ngāti Rangitihi descent, has also previously worked on TVNZ’s te reo news show Te Karere. The former documentary filmmaker has also enjoyed stints at both Māori Television and Mai FM.

    Kaipara has been overwhelmed by the positive feedback she had received after her first two 6pm bulletins. “I've been realising for a while that it's much bigger than just reading the news, or doing stories that matter to all of us. It's also a big win for this generation and the next 10 generations – don't let identity or your culture hold you back from anything. In fact, you use it as your power, to be greater and do great things for everyone.”

    The mother of four said her debut presenting the 6pm news had been enjoyed by her proud whānau “up and down the country”.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300486757/groundbreaking-newshub-presenter-oriini-kaipara-makes-history-again-on-primetime-bulletin

    Having a govt with a foreign minister who fronts internationally with a moko no doubt helped management to make this move promoting her.

    • Gezza 1.1
      28 December 2021 at 9:50 am

      Having a govt with a foreign minister who fronts internationally with a moko no doubt helped management to make this move promoting her.

      I don’t think that would be a relevant factor in their decision. They poached her off TV1, where she’d been a regular midday news presenter since November 2019.

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/117787888/oriini-kaipara-one-of-the-first-with-moko-kauae-to-read-major-news-bulletin

      It’s quite noticeable now how all the major Kiwiland free to air tv channels are showing increasingly bicultural & multicultural ads as well. There are several regular ads that feature mixed Pākehā & Māori or Pākehā & Pasifika couples.

      • Pete 1.1.1
        28 December 2021 at 10:32 am

        I saw an online discussion earlier in the year about bicultural & multicultural ads. It was a chance for racists, the threatened majority and the insular to flaunt their wares.

        Ironic that what they see as sign of decline instead gave them the opportunity to show how terribly far we have to travel.

        • Gezza 1.1.1.1
          28 December 2021 at 10:57 am

          It cuts both ways. Hone Harawira has infamously said he “wouldn’t feel comfortable” if one of his children came home with a Pākehā partner.

          There are some other Māori who exhibit racist attitudes to Pākehā too, & frequently speak of Pākehā natives of several generations in this country as though THEY are guilty of the bad, even atrocious, behaviour of the early settler governments, colonial troops & militias.

          But these racist haters on both sides are still very much the minority, I believe. There are mixed Māori/Pākehā couples in my extended family/whanau, like there are in many Pākehā & Māori families. It’s just never been an issue in ours. They’re all loved nephews, nieces, cuzzies – just whanau to us. (Although few of them identify as Māori, they mostly consider themselves Kiwis first, with Māori & Pākehā whakapapa.)

          Some of our extended family got together over Xmas at my place. One of them mentioned that they’d seen the proposed Kiwiland history syllabus for schools. They thought it was too heavily weighted towards colonial history & the suppression of Māori, with no information on the pre-Treaty intertribal wars which would have featured in some iwi decisions to sign up to Te Tiriti.

          Their concern was that it might generate unnecessary friction between Pākehā & Māori students if Pākehā students come to feel picked on for the “sins of their forefathers” when they feel & exhibit no such attitudes themselves. So I’ll be interested to see how things go with the NZ history syllabus.

          • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.1
            28 December 2021 at 12:09 pm

            Hone saying "he wouldn't be comfortable…" is not racist.

            He'll readily admit to prejudice (quite rightly) but never to racism (quite rightly).

            • Blazer 1.1.1.1.1.1
              28 December 2021 at 12:19 pm

              Wonderful quote….I mean who ever heard of any European parents who shared the very same sentiments regarding their own …offspring.wink

            • Gezza 1.1.1.1.1.2
              28 December 2021 at 1:02 pm

              @ Robert
              Hone saying “he wouldn’t be comfortable…” is not racist. He’ll readily admit to prejudice (quite rightly) but never to racism (quite rightly).

              racist
              adjective
              prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
              ‘we are investigating complaints about racist abuse’

              noun
              a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
              ‘he has been targeted by vicious racists online’
              synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, anti-Semite, (racially) discriminatory, prejudiced, bigoted, biased, intolerant, illiberal, anti-Semitic

              • Robert Guyton …
                28 December 2021 at 1:45 pm

                "typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

                • RedLogix …
                  28 December 2021 at 2:06 pm

                  Try living and working in any country where you are a minority.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    28 December 2021 at 2:25 pm

                    Member of a minority… race?

                    • RedLogix …
                      28 December 2021 at 3:04 pm

                      My point is that you're viewing 'racism' through just one local lens that's familiar to you.

                      Globally it's a much more complex thing, and doesn’t conform to the tired stereotypes being used here.

                • Gezza …
                  28 December 2021 at 2:16 pm

                  “Typically” being the operative word, but it also means not always. Racial predjudice is racism. It’s not determined by whether the object of the racism is a member of a minority, or marginalised, or not.

                  The argument that because some Pākehā are racist against Māori this justifies some Māori being racist against Pākehā is a pathetic attempt to minimise or “whitewash / brownwash” racism as acceptable in the case of a member of a minority but not for a member of a majority.

                  It’s bullshit. Racism is racism & needs to be called out & condemned wherever it’s encountered. Otherwise it just becomes an endless circle of justifications: “If it’s ok for him/her/them to be racist, I/we can be too!”

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    28 December 2021 at 2:22 pm

                    No. Typically means typically, so the definition of racism and prejudice is not the same. The exception does not extinguish the difference.

                    Hone admits to prejudice (shouldn't we all?) but denies racism.

                    "minority or marginalised" – are you somehow hoping to pitch us pakeha as such?

                    Hone's right.

                    • Gezza …
                      28 December 2021 at 3:07 pm

                      Hone’s racist. Some days. Other days he’s not.

                      Typically means “typically”, because in the majority of cases members of majorities are racially prejudiced against minorities, or the marginalised, like the Dalit, in India, as one example, but certainly doesn’t mean “always”.

                      Whites in South Africa were prejudiced against the majority – blacks & coloureds.

                      I can only assume you’re being obtuse or wilfully obdurate in a failed attempt to justify what some folk call reverse racism in this country.

                      But that’s bullshit, Guyton, imo.

                      Racism is the same thing as racial prejudice & it’s unacceptable to all fair-minded folk. No matter who is demonstrating it & whatever group it’s directed at.

                    • weka …
                      28 December 2021 at 4:50 pm

                      Whites in South Africa were prejudiced against the majority – blacks & coloureds.

                      People of colour in SA are the marginalised group. Your definition included minority and marginalised.

                      If we don't differentiate between people being marginalised as a class because of race and those who are receiving personal bigotry, then we can't understand what racism is, how it manifests, and what to do about it.

                      THere are obvious differences between a Pāhekā man not wanting his daughter to date any Māori man because he believes that Māori generally are [insert racial prejudice], and a Māori man not wanting his daughter to date any Pākehā man because he wants to redress issues of colonisation (eg he believes that his grandkids will be better raised in te Ao Māori with a Māori dad, that te reo is more likely to survive, that his daughter is less likely to be exposed to racism if she is marries a Māori man etc).

                      Note I am not talking good/bad here, I am pointing out that there are important differences.

                    • Gezza …
                      28 December 2021 at 5:58 pm

                      @ weka

                      Note I am not talking good/bad here, I am pointing out that there are important differences.

                      So, presumably you’d agree that a Pākehā man not wanting his daughter to have a Māori partner because he believes that his grandkids will be better raised in the Pākehā world with a Pākehā dad, that English is more likely to be of use to them in NZ and overseas than Te reo is, & that his daughter is less likely to be exposed to racism if she marries a man of European ancestry?

                      In this day in this country there’s no reason why having a Pākehā partner means you can’t move in both Māori & Pākehā circles & in fact many mixed race couples do, with the Pākehā partner learning Māori & being welcome on nga marae as whanau.

                      If we don’t differentiate between people being marginalised as a class because of race and those who are receiving personal bigotry, then we can’t understand what racism is, how it manifests, and what to do about it.

                      Yeah we can. It’s not complicated. Don’t abuse, insult, discriminate against or marginalise people because of their race or ethnic extraction.

                    • weka …
                      28 December 2021 at 7:54 pm

                      So, presumably you’d agree that a Pākehā man not wanting his daughter to have a Māori partner because he believes that his grandkids will be better raised in the Pākehā world with a Pākehā dad, that English is more likely to be of use to them in NZ and overseas than Te reo is, & that his daughter is less likely to be exposed to racism if she marries a man of European ancestry?

                      No. My point was the two situations are not symmetric, they're actually quite different.

                      The reason why a Māori man might want his grandkids raised in te Ao Māori, is because that is at risk. Kids get raised in te Ao Pākehā by default, because it's the dominant culture. This is the point of analysis of racism beyond personal prejudice.

                      The only reason I can see for not wanting one's grandkid raised bilingually (te reo Māori and English) would be racism. Please explain any other reason you can see. There's no suggestion that they only learn TRM. And again, this is why the situations aren't symmetrical. English is the default, everyone learns it. It takes effort to learn TRM and there are many barriers to doing so.

                      In this day in this country there’s no reason why having a Pākehā partner means you can’t move in both Māori & Pākehā circles & in fact many mixed race couples do, with the Pākehā partner learning Māori & being welcome on nga marae as whanau.

                      Ae, but the chances of the Pākehā partner being versed in te Ao Māori, or even accepting of it, are much less likely. I'm not making a case for not marrying Pākehā, I'm pointing out the situations are two sides of the same coin.

                      If we don’t differentiate between people being marginalised as a class because of race and those who are receiving personal bigotry, then we can’t understand what racism is, how it manifests, and what to do about it.

                      Yeah we can. It’s not complicated. Don’t abuse, insult, discriminate against or marginalise people because of their race or ethnic extraction.

                      Do you believe that there is a thing such as institutional racism? Or structural racism? Unconscious racism?

                    • Gezza …
                      29 December 2021 at 12:23 am

                      @ weka

                      The only reason I can see for not wanting one’s grandkid raised bilingually (te reo Māori and English) would be racism. Please explain any other reason you can see.

                      Personally I think our kids should be learning Te Reo English as the lingua franca & a widely spoken international language AND Te Reo Māori as the native language of Kiwiland. Both languages have completely different roots & grammar/syntax. Good for both brain development & for understanding the cultures they come from.

                      But I accept that some Pākehā can’t see the point in learning Te Reo Māori as they’re not Māori, & they have the same attitude regarding their kids learning it too. I do think some of them are probably racist, although they may not see it themselves, and it really depends on what their attitude is towards Māori people generally.

                      Do you believe that there is a thing such as institutional racism? Yes. It’s often unconscious in institutions that see themselves as offering equal opportunity or services to all Kiwis, but which don’t cater for non-Pākehā cultural differences..

                      Or structural racism? Yes. We saw this in the vaccine rollout.

                      Unconscious racism? Yes. Some people are unaware their attitudes or statements are racist. Point it out & some people will change. Others won’t – although now they should be aware they’re being racist if it’s been explained clearly.

                  • Blazer …
                    28 December 2021 at 2:43 pm

                    Prejudice is not confined to….racism.

                  • swordfish …
                    28 December 2021 at 5:02 pm

                    .

                    Gezza

                    Yeah, it's yet another attempt by the Woke Cult to dramatically transform definitions & then vigorously police them.

                    These radical re-definitions are grounded in Critical Race Theory dogma, particularly its crude, deeply distorted Postmodern-derived view of power dynamics. Basically, a racial re-theorising of Foucault's arguments around Knowledge & Power.

                    Practical Upshot: anyone deemed by horrendously self-indulgent Upper-Middle Wokedom to be a member of a ‘Marginalised’ ID group is essentially given carte blanche … tough luck for their victims if they’re violent anti-socials ruthlessly exercising power, control & domination.

                    But, of course, that couldn’t possibly happen if they’re not white … I mean …

                    As I’ve said before, the Woke Cult is an Upper-Middle Vanity Project that consolidates power & privilege for itself while viciously scapegoating a whole swathe of low-to-low-middle income it deems ‘outgroups’. The Paternalistic Romanticisation & Infantilisation of PoC is weapon they deploy.

                    • roblogic …
                      29 December 2021 at 12:37 am

                      madness… and grim reality

                  • Pat …
                    28 December 2021 at 7:19 pm

                    "Yeah we can. It’s not complicated. Don’t abuse, insult, discriminate against or marginalise people because of their race or ethnic extraction."

                    It is the definition of racism I understand (but as Swordfish says, the language has been redefined for spurious political purposes)….as you say its simple…folk are folk.

                    Absurd positions do not serve anyone well.

            • Foreign waka 1.1.1.1.1.3
              28 December 2021 at 11:15 pm

              Racism is racism, no matter what colour of skin. To make this a valid argument is no different than any statement of such matter. But I am honestly not surprised. Many comments I heard over the last 30 years are in that vain and it is pakeha riding a trend of woke culture completely misreading whats happening at the gras roots. Wait until the economic crisis thats in the making pulls the rug…

    • joe90 1.2
      28 December 2021 at 12:01 pm

      Having a govt with a foreign minister who fronts internationally with a moko no doubt helped management to make this move promoting her.

      Because a wahine Māori would never merit promotion on her skills alone. Eh, Dennis. /

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    28 December 2021 at 6:50 am

    Labour has been making incremental progress, dropping the number of casual public servants by 1% per year over the past four years.

    Numbers provided by the Public Service Commission shows that in the 2017/18 year – contractors and consultants made up 13.4 per cent of the Government's workforce. That number was 12.8 per cent in 2018/19, 11.3 per cent in 19/20 and 10.3 per cent in the last financial year.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/revealed-the-eye-watering-amount-the-govts-spending-on-contractors-and-whos-reaping-the-benefits/VWHSIHEWN5IXDHUE2D36C66M5A/

    In 2017/18, some $900 million was spent; $923m the year after and $968m in 2019/20. But, according to a spokesman for the Public Service Commission, the Commission "never said the actual dollars spent [on consultants] would be reduced. It's about getting the right balance of the Public Service workforce, finding the balance between the number of full-time employees and contractors and consultants. We are doing this."

    So Labour likes National's casualisation policy. Nat spokesperson reckons the policy is too expensive.

    Hipkins, however, said National and Act's position "is a bit confused. When they were in Government they put an arbitrary cap on the number of people the Public Sector could employ and that resulted in an explosion in the number of people who were being engaged as consultants – which ultimately cost the public service more."

    • Foreign waka 2.1
      28 December 2021 at 11:19 pm

      Don't worry, the government spent instead 1 Billion dollars on consultants and contractors. Maybe there is a money tree after all…..called the tax payer.

      • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1
        29 December 2021 at 12:26 pm

        So you don't think experts should be used on our behalf? Who then should be consulted? Oh and who could we get for free?

  3. aom 3
    28 December 2021 at 8:39 am

    How come one has to turn to the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/27/turn-the-planes-around-maori-leader-says-new-zealand-should-block-australian-deportations) to read something that should be all over the NZ Media. Matthew Tukaki, Chair of National Māori Authority posits an elegant solution to the arrogant dumping of 501's in NZ . He says the Government should adopt the Howard approach used when he turned back the Tampa, by doing the same to aircraft bringing the 501's here. That sure beats the present approach of – 'Oh well, there's nothing we can do." Irrespective of all else, the 501's learned their trade in Australia so it is appropriate they ply their trade there – not here!

    • Pat 3.1
      28 December 2021 at 8:46 am

      Im not sure we can refuse access to NZ citizens deported from abroad no matter the justification…..signatory to international agreements.

    • Gezza 3.2
      28 December 2021 at 9:59 am

      The problems with some 501s being behind the increasing use of guns & violence by NZ gangs IS being reported in NZ media as well:

      .https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-12-2021/#comment-1846739

      See especially The Herald coverage of Matthew Tukaki’s outburst.

      NZ legally can’t refuse to allow NZ citizens to be deported here. Tukaki most probably already knows that. He’s a real grandstander, that dude. Seems to just like being in the news.

      • joe90 3.2.1
        28 December 2021 at 11:51 am

        About that increasing use of guns & violence by NZ gangs…

      • Blazer 3.2.2
        28 December 2021 at 12:04 pm

        'The problems with some 501s being behind the increasing use of guns & violence by NZ gangs IS being reported in NZ media as well:'

        Small wonder sending them back is so,so popular in Australia.

      • Psycho Milt 3.2.3
        28 December 2021 at 2:05 pm

        What NZ can "legally" do is whatever Parliament says it can. If the govt wanted, refusing landing rights for any aircraft carrying a 501 deportee could be made legal in a matter of days.

        Potential constitutional issue of refusing to grant NZ citizens entry to NZ would also be pretty easily dealt with, given that the citizens in question don't actually want to enter NZ.

        • RedLogix 3.2.3.1
          28 December 2021 at 2:32 pm

          If the govt wanted, refusing landing rights for any aircraft carrying a 501 deportee could be made legal in a matter of days.

          I had typed out a comment in a very similar vein – and then deleted it as 'too radical'.

          Still the idea appeals. If a 501 commits any crime, round them up into detention camps, put batches of them onto boats. Send them back across the Tasman with a note telling the Australian govt that it has way more experience with convict ships than we do. /sarc

        • Gezza 3.2.3.2
          28 December 2021 at 2:52 pm

          FFS. If they wanted to do it they’d have done it.

          Oz has the right to deport them, they’re not Oz citizens. If NZ says we’re not taking them, we’re passing legislation depriving them of citizenship (or some device that amounts to declaring them some lesser form of citizen) they’d be stateless & our govt would be given pariah status internationally because they’re NZ citizens.

          Quite a few of the 501s are Māori. Can you imagine such legislation getting past the Maori Caucus? Or Te Pāti Māori? If so, you’re dreaming. No matter what they’ve done, to Māori, they’re whanau, they’ve got whakakpapa. They’d never turn them away.

          • Psycho Milt 3.2.3.2.1
            28 December 2021 at 9:24 pm

            FFS. If they wanted to do it they’d have done it.

            Very nearly my point – which was, if they wanted to do it, the legality of doing it wouldn't be an issue.

            Yes, Oz has the 'right' (in the strictly legal sense of the term) to deport people who grew up in Australia, have no memory of living in another country and no friends/family they know in the country they're being deported to. We could, if we chose, give ourselves the likewise-strictly-in-the-legal-sense-of-the-term 'right' to reject the dumping of these Australians (in all senses that matter) on our shores. The reasons we might choose or not choose to do that are entirely political, as you're aware.

        • Pat 3.2.3.3
          28 December 2021 at 7:51 pm

          They can make National Law, not International Law….so it would also mean removing ourselves as a signatory to the UN Declaration of Human Rights (at least).

          It would also impact our reputation as an honest broker.

          • Psycho Milt 3.2.3.3.1
            28 December 2021 at 9:29 pm

            We have no obligation to act as an honest broker when dealing with the bargain-basement fascists and religious fundamentalists sending these Australian criminals to NZ. We should act with integrity because it's the right thing to do, but scum like Dutton can have no expectation that it's owed to them.

            • Pat 3.2.3.3.1.1
              28 December 2021 at 9:48 pm

              We have the obligation to honour the convention we signed….how the Australians, or Dutton act have no bearing on that.

            • Pat 3.2.3.3.1.2
              28 December 2021 at 10:07 pm

              I fully expect however you will get your wish to have the UN Charter either changed (or ignored) by all and sundry in the not too distant future.

      • DukeEll 3.2.4
        28 December 2021 at 2:56 pm

        The best answer to the 501 issue is to take away the opportunity for criminal relapse when they arrive in NZ by decriminalisation of all drugs and legalisation of Marijuana, MDMA and Cocaine. Focus on the supply of meth entirely, with no noise or new people coming into its orbit as they move to less harmful drugs purchased from the government.

      • Blade 3.2.5
        28 December 2021 at 4:36 pm

        I find the guy a smug p%&#k. The way he patronised and belittled Don Brash during one debate was pitiful. He knew Don would be an easy target given Don doesn't seem to have a nasty bone in his body. Still, I'm sure Dons hardened to such tactics.

    • Stuart Munro 3.3
      28 December 2021 at 12:28 pm

      I understand the superficial appeal of the idea – but NZ needs to fess up – these are the offspring of kiwi economic refugees fleeing the carnage of Rogergnomics.

      They'd never have gone to Oz were the governments of their parents' day not thoroughly irresponsible. Yes, Australia should do better – but don't pretend Roger Douglas's bloody-handed apparatchiks are not to blame for this along with practically every other failure of governance that afflicts our long suffering nation.

      • AB 3.3.1
        28 December 2021 at 1:44 pm

        This country might look quite different if the Australian bolt hole had not been there. Its existence has given a free pass to our morally regressive elites to f**k up royally without consequences.

      • RedLogix 3.3.2
        28 December 2021 at 2:38 pm

        The divergence between the two economies dates back to the era of Gough Whitlam who predates Rogernomics by about a decade. The flow of economic migrants to Australia was relatively balanced until around 1967 in the direct aftermath of CER.

        There is a history of people movement across the Tasman Sea since the establishment of Sydney in 1788. Historically the flow has been both ways, and is more a form of shifting than overseas migration. Until the 1960s more people moved from Australia to New Zealand than vice versa. This trend changed from 1967. Since then significantly more people have moved from New Zealand to Australia than have migrated from Australia to New Zealand. From the late 1960s the traditional pattern became a cycle of peak net outflows to Australia towards the end of every decade, in 1969, 1979, 1989, 2000, and 2009, with a further peak in 2012 contributed by the Christchurch earthquakes.

        So just blaming Rogernomics cannot be the whole story.

        • Stuart Munro 3.3.2.1
          28 December 2021 at 10:02 pm

          Of course not – single cause things aren't particularly common in the real world. But it was and remains a large contributor to the rapidly growing inequality and homelessness in New Zealand, and little or nothing is being done to address it as a root cause.

          The wretched neoliberals that have larded dysfunction into every part of our state have more job security than the people they are ostensibly to serve. Small wonder that working families chose to emigrate, even when circumstances were not ideal.

          • Foreign waka 3.3.2.1.1
            28 December 2021 at 11:34 pm

            I completely disagree, utterly and completely. These are only excuses to make murders, drugdealing and crimes forgivable. They are not, in any country. Hence Australia is deporting…yes you guessed it, criminals. It is the NZ government prerogative to set a standard and treat these returnees as such. Police is slowly being out numbered and even military would not boost the numbers enough. Don't get me wrong but this makes NZ completely unattravtive to investments and only smears its reputation. Be it in terms of law and order or corruption.

            • Stuart Munro 3.3.2.1.1.1
              30 December 2021 at 3:36 pm

              When a society is not being systemically looted by kleptocrats, it is more likely to function in such a way as to make working for a living a viable alternative to criminality. After Rogergnomics NZ stopped working for our lower quartile altogether. Now it barely works for the lower two quartiles. Property speculation is presently protected above housing security and community. In such circumstances, regard for the rule of law does poorer citizens no good at all.

              • Pat …
                30 December 2021 at 3:40 pm

                "In such circumstances, regard for the rule of law does poorer citizens no good at all."

                I understand the sentiment but I also doubt your conviction with that statement.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.3.3
        29 December 2021 at 12:38 pm

        Stuart please read up on the fourth National Government. Many ills were made worse by the bail out of BNZ, and the following changes to state house rents, surtax on pensions, loosening the housing regs leading to leaky homes. It made the deregulation by Douglas much worse.

  4. aom 4
    28 December 2021 at 10:34 am

    Interesting to hear Tukaki's comment was in the Herald – refuse to read it.

    Yes, there is loads of reporting on the activities of the 501's how does that relate to the issue?

    Australia couldn't legally turn refugees back either – so what? Of course, it is a deathcult imperative for 'civilized' countries like the UK now. Better still, we could follow their foriegn affairs tactic and render 501's stateless.

    Tukaki a grandstander? Interesting put down which one wouldn't expect from you Gezza.

    • Pat 4.1
      28 December 2021 at 10:40 am

      . "Better still, we could follow their foriegn affairs tactic and render 501's stateless."

      That action that is decried condemned from here then?…..hell, lets be done with it and revert to survival of the fittest…no need for agreements, cooperation or trust.

    • Gezza 4.2
      28 December 2021 at 12:53 pm

      Yes, there is loads of reporting on the activities of the 501’s how does that relate to the issue?

      The issue IS the 501s, aom. The suggestion that NZ turn back aircraft bringing them is not in the same legal category as turning back & refusing entry to Tampa refugees. That may have breached international conventions that Australia (& NZ) have signed up to, but granting entry to New Zealand citizens is enshrined in NZ law.

      Domestic law legally trumps international conventions – unless they are now enshrined in domestic law.

      New Zealand citizens are entitled to enter Kiwiland at any time. Refusing entry to NZ citizens is illegal & Customs, Defence & Immigration personnel cannot act illegally. Our legislation would have to be amended to permit what Tukaki suggests, & no such amendment would ever pass in the House, imo.

      • A.Ziffel 4.2.1
        28 December 2021 at 3:29 pm

        Clearly, entry to NZ is dependent on MIQ availability & so "refusing entry to NZ citizens is [not] illegal".

        Put the 501s at the bottom of the MIQ queue & tell Canberra they'll be accepted when circumstances allow.

        Also, for whatever subset of 501s hold dual citizenship & weren't born in NZ, revoke their NZ citizenship & force Canberra to send them somewhere else.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    28 December 2021 at 10:58 am

    So

    the Gibraltar Stock Exchange (GSX) is quietly preparing for a corporate takeover that could have global consequences … regulators are reviewing a proposal that would prompt blockchain firm Valereum to buy the exchange in the new year – meaning the British overseas territory could soon host the world’s first integrated bourse, where conventional bonds can be traded alongside major cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin and dogecoin. It is a bold move for a territory of just 33,000 people, where the financial sector – which accounts for roughly a third of Gibraltar’s £2.4bn economy – is overseen by a regulator staffed by 82 employees. If all goes to plan, the enclave could become a global cryptocurrency hub

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/27/blockchain-rock-gibraltar-moves-to-become-worlds-first-cryptocurrency-hub

    The idea seems to be that capitalism can evolve & progress on a sound basis provided one builds the system properly. Pretty much the opposite to wild west Americanism.

    It comes as Gibraltar struggles to shake off a reputation as a global tax haven, with the government having sued a Spanish newspaper in an attempt to restore its global standing. Albert Isola, Gibraltar’s minister for digital, financial services and public utilities, says that while Gibraltar was a tax haven 20 years ago, the territory has now overhauled its tax and information sharing policies. The introduction of crypto regulation is having a similar effect: rooting out bad actors and providing assurance to investors, he says.

    “If you wanted to do naughty things in crypto, you wouldn’t be in Gibraltar, because the firms are licensed and regulated, and they aren’t anywhere else in the world,” Isola says. Gibraltar’s regulator has so far approved 14 cryptocurrency and blockchain firms for its licensing scheme

    Capitalists not being naughty? Radical thinking on the rock. Wonder if it will catch on. Although it's British

    Under its current constitution, Gibraltar has almost complete internal self-governance through a parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    28 December 2021 at 12:13 pm

    Some folks here have rejected our foreign policy of triangulating China & the USA. When push comes to shove, they seem to believe it's inevitable we'll get squeezed onto the west side of the divide. However Pakistan is also triangulating China & the USA. I suspect sceptics, if they take a closer look at the foreign policy of other affected nations such as Japan, Phillipines, Vietnam, will be able to discern a common pattern.

    Pakistan is the fifth most populated country in the world and has the second-largest Muslim population after Indonesia. It has lived mostly under long military dictatorships since its independence in 1947 but transitioned to democracy for the third time in 2008. Since then it has had three successful democratic transfers of power through elections, with a robust multiple political party system and vibrant civil society.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/china-steps-in-where-us-declines-to-tread

    Since 2018, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), under cricket star turned politician Imran Khan, has been the ruling party… All other political parties in opposition allege the military rigged the 2018 election and made a coup-less coup to carry PTI to power.

    Here's the geopolitical strategy Imran inherited from the previous govt:

    The proposal for an economic corridor between China and Pakistan, known as the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), officially launched in 2015. It is a flagship project under BRI (China’s global infrastructure development project), and is seen as the economic peg in the broader longstanding strategic relationship between Pakistan and China. CPEC is a constellation of infrastructure projects aiming to build and upgrade roads, highways, rail, and pipeline infrastructure while connecting China with the Chinese-invested Pakistani port of Gwadar.

    US disengagement and a shift to an Indo-Pacific strategy has given a new impetus to authoritarianism in Pakistan. However, the military and political elite in Pakistan wish to keep a relationship with the US intact while allowing China’s infrastructure investment in Pakistan, as the military has been the primary beneficiary of billions of US dollars of aid weaponry, and training. The personal future of many officials in Pakistan is tied with the West, especially the US.

    Seems clear both govt & military are dead keen to stay in the middle & play both sides against each other. If they continue to be able to do so, they'll be a role model for other triangulators to copy. Anyone who criticises our govt for an independent foreign policy will look like a fool…

    • Blazer 7.1
      28 December 2021 at 12:15 pm

      '. Anyone who criticises our govt for an independent foreign policy will look like a fool…'

      I don't think that will be much of a …deterent.

  9. Stephen D 9
    28 December 2021 at 3:37 pm

    Paul Buchanan being nuanced again regarding our diplomatic relationship with China.

    http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2021/12/the-incremental-shift/

    I’m especially intrigued by this: “I have a feeling that something pretty outrageous may have occurred in the bilateral relationship and NZ has now sought to tighten its ties to Western trade and security networks”

    • Whispering Kate 9.1
      28 December 2021 at 4:11 pm

      re Paul Buchanan's "incremental shift" expose. Phew two ladies in control of little ol NZ the PM and the Minister of Foreign Affairs gently tugging on the "balls" of China – who would have thunk it. One for the ladies.

    • Blazer 9.2
      28 December 2021 at 5:27 pm

      NZ would have been given 'the hard word' by 5 eyes partners,you can be sure.

    • Gezza 9.3
      28 December 2021 at 7:58 pm

      That was an interesting read. I’ve been puzzled by our apparent hardening diplomatic stance towards the PRC, especially given the economic risks with so many of our trade eggs in the Chinese basket. It will be intriguing to see what if anything occurs in the coming year that might prove Buchanan right.

      • Dennis Frank 9.3.1
        28 December 2021 at 8:59 pm

        I’ve been puzzled by our apparent hardening diplomatic stance towards the PRC

        I've been reassured by it. It's ever so easy for me to default to the old `Labour are eternally clueless' judgment. When I see such evidence to the contrary, I can play with the notion that they aren't all morons after all.

        Others see it as getting onside with the yanks. Understandable, but I advise paying attention to nuances. Better to see Five Eyes as a prudent defensive strategy than robotic conformism, for instance.

        Thing is, Xi may be a benign dictator. The concentration camps may indeed just make inmates focus on Xi thought instead of islamic belief.

        Brainwashing for the good of mental cleansing has been used on western consumers throughout our lives. Freedom of choice as a right of citizens is the difference between our situation & theirs.

        Xi's credibility with westerners will be determined more by his Hong Kong policy than anything else currently. He has broken China's contract with the UK – the terms of the lease-ending agreement, which allowed HK to retain democratic rights & processes. Any contract-breaker proves they cannot be trusted. Prior Chinese regime leaders didn't make that stupid mistake!

        It is entirely possible that our foreign minister has been advised accordingly. It wouldn't be the first time our govt officials had done their job properly, one suspects. Give them the benefit of the doubt on that basis. If you do, you need no longer be puzzled – you will see good reason for our "hardening diplomatic stance towards the PRC".

        Xi seems intelligent, so you may wonder why he signalled this betrayal so blatantly. I reckon the signal was unintentional. My guess is that he does not realise he has discredited his geopolitical reputation yet. Belt & Road still seems a viable strategy – not just to him, but to most observers. Imran probably feels that islamic solidarity with the Uighyurs must be set aside in his mind to secure the economic benefits for Pakistan. Supping with the devil, he needs that long spoon.

        • Blazer 9.3.1.1
          28 December 2021 at 9:05 pm

          'Any contract-breaker proves they cannot be trusted.'

          You must have a high opinion of the U.S.A then!

          Do you really think China is interested in invading western countries?

          • Dennis Frank 9.3.1.1.1
            29 December 2021 at 5:28 am

            Let's assume you're being illogical to make a good point, eh? To make that point you would need to cite similar instances of geopolitical behaviour by the USA. Let's assume you didn't do that because you assume readers of this blog can read your mind, so no need.

            A false assumption, I expect. However, if readers write in to testify that they can actually read your mind, I'll be impressed.

            Do you really think China is interested in invading western countries?

            So what gave you that loopy idea?? When has China ever done that before?

            • Blazer 9.3.1.1.1.1
              29 December 2021 at 8:53 am

              O.K-I do need to spell it out then.

              Re your point about contract breakers and trust-a sample

              All the international agreements the US has broken before the Iran deal — Quartz (qz.com)

              ' Better to see Five Eyes as a prudent defensive strategy than robotic conformism, for instance.'-is that sugar coating it!

              'Xi's credibility with westerners will be determined more by his Hong Kong policy than anything else currently. '-your opinion.

              Currently the Chinese property crashes and Xi's reaction are causing more concern imo.

              ' Imran probably feels that islamic solidarity with the Uighyurs must be set aside in his mind to secure the economic benefits for Pakistan. Supping with the devil, he needs that long spoon.'

              Considering the U.S treatment of Native Americans and their actions in Sth and Central America just to name a couple ,how could their international reputation ever become as sullied as 'the Great Satan'.

              It may well be that you are unaware of the crimes and misdemeanours of the 'yanks' since WW2 and couldn't care less,but the irony of trying to demonise China is just U.S foreign policy …as usual.

              Hell, China has a 99 year lease on Darwin Port,they may as well just continue buying up Australia and NZ.

              p.s the only mind reader here appears to be…you-'Imram probably feels'

              'Xi's credibility will….'

              • Dennis Frank …
                29 December 2021 at 9:12 am

                You provide a link to a list that hides behind a paywall and expect me to take you seriously? All that achieves is an impression that there is likely to be substance to your claim. Which I knew about decades ago anyway.

                I marched against the yanks in '71, the Vietnam War mobe, with all the leftists. I'm not expecting you to tell me anything new – just provide suitable evidence that the US has broken similar geopolitical contracts to destroy it's own credibility. Citation of actual incidences.

                • Blazer …
                  29 December 2021 at 9:18 am

                  Just tried it again…NO paywall.

                  'All that achieves is an impression that there is likely to be substance to your claim. Which I knew about decades ago anyway.=?

                  – just provide suitable evidence that the US has broken similar geopolitical contracts to destroy it's own credibility. Citation of actual incidences.

                  Right…like they are just so hard to…find!surprise-hopeless.

                  • Dennis Frank …
                    29 December 2021 at 9:24 am

                    Okay so they don't want money to let you see it, they just want your private info. Not going there.

                    And you still can't specify instances to validate your claim. No worries – just thought you might not be as lazy as other folks here…

        • Foreign waka 9.3.1.2
          28 December 2021 at 11:54 pm

          And lets not forget those 165 000 nuklear warheads Palistan has and India just inbetween not belonging to the muslim world, having China on the border of Tibet……

          • RedLogix 9.3.1.2.1
            29 December 2021 at 1:08 pm

            I think a few extra zeroes slipped in there blush

            Pakistan is believed to have a stockpile of approximately 160 warheads, making it the 6th largest nuclear arsenal. Pakistan is actively developing nuclear weapons, and experts project that it may have the 5th largest arsenal by 2025 with 220-250 warheads.

            Still your point is a good one – the whole China/Russian/Tibet/India/Pakistan/Iran/Afghanistan geopolitical nexus is complex and potentially disastrous beyond all belief. I've no idea how it's going to play out.

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