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Open mike 28/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, May 28th, 2014 - 195 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

195 comments on “Open mike 28/05/2014 ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    It is a bit rich for social democrats to criticise Internet Mana for consorting with neo liberals and emerge with credibility. Rog, Bassett, Mad Dog Prebble and Ruth got that ball rolling decades ago.
    The NZ Labour Party struggles still with the vestiges of that takeover. And the whole country endures the Reserve Bank Act, SOEs and user pays.

    Internet Mana is a party vote promotion deal. Neo liberals do not usually go gunning for the state security forces. Mana is the closest any NZ parliamentary party comes to being an anti capitalist party.

    As for the various right critics of Internet Mana some of them have done projections and realise the potential effect of 2–5 extra MPs in the whole equation and do not like the prospect. Others are just being their usual bonehead tory selves and having a swipe at Hone and John Minto. Strangely enough some of these critics did not like the formation of Mana or the inclusion of marxist forces in it either.

    Flavell (MP) and Davis (LP) have much to lose hence their self serving opportunist remarks this morning.

    • tc 1.1

      Makes for interesting times now mana has some backing, hone is a canny player and this keeps KDC in the frame during the campaign.

      Methinks the nact wish they should have looked after that donor now rather than take his cash then throw him to their US backers as the pawn they were playing him for.

      • Tautoko Viper 1.1.1

        The voting out of the current government in the next election is absolutely vital for Aotearoa NZ society. Left wing parties are severely disadvantaged by their inability to raise anything like the amount of money that the right wing parties pull in from those who benefit from their policies. Mana have acted in the best interests of 99% of New Zealanders to fight the common enemy using the same weapon as the NActs – money. While I understand and respect Sue Bradford’s views, I applaud Mana for their considered decision.

        • Rosie

          +1 Tautoko Viper.

          Apparently (ref: Mr Ure yesterday on Open Mike and John Minto on RNZ news) the alliance was widely supported among the membership of Mana – they are Mana members for a reason and have a feel for what the right move is, critics should take note of that.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Left wing parties are severely disadvantaged by their inability to raise anything like the amount of money that the right wing parties pull in from those who benefit from their policies.

          Can we stop spreading this BS?

          Apparently Labour’s membership is the greatest it’s been in 30 years. Thirty years ago Labour had ~55,000 members. So, if we assume a conservative 30,000 members and we get each paying $5/week (affordable even on a benefit) that would give an income of $150,000 per week. And that’s just the Labour Party.

          So don’t tell me that the left can’t raise money. Doing so is the purpose of having political parties. Membership in a political party has both its privileges and its sacrifices. People don’t seem willing to do the sacrifice part.

          • Clemgeopin

            You are mistaking or misrepresenting the actual annual fee amount with the suggested amount depending on one’s income. Take another look here to understand the difference:

            • Draco T Bastard

              No I’m not – I’m complaining about left-wing parties failing to raise the money that they’re quite capable of raising because they’re too busy saying that people can join for only $5 per year.

              • McFlock

                The benefit isn’t enough to live on, so how can even $5/w be affordable? That $260 would be quite useful for someone on sweet fuck all.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  The benefit isn’t enough to live on, so how can even $5/w be affordable?

                  With difficulty.

            • Rosie

              Thanks for the info Clemogeopin. That’s a good arrangement that suits all budgets.

          • Rosie

            Does membership tie to a weekly donation Drax? Serious question. I had assumed that there might a one off annual donation for membership and maybe an option to contribute weekly if you felt so compelled and were able.

            I recall Trevor Mallard saying on Backbenches a few weeks ago he had members in Hutt South contributing $10 per week because they wanted to see a change in government. That led me to believe that a weekly contribution was optional, but clarification would be welcome.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Does membership tie to a weekly donation Drax?

              No, and that’s the problem and it applies to all left wing parties. They all have ridiculously low membership fees. Mana is $5 per year, Alliance is $25 every three years.

              Thing is, it’s these very low membership dues that allow big money to buy our MPs.

              • Rosie

                In Mana’s case they represent the poor and working poor so that membership fee is totally appropriate and considerate of their circumstances.

                The Labour example above showed a tiered ‘suggested donation’ (with the minimum for waged workers being $20 per year) for different income brackets. As we know there are individuals that make chunky one off donations as well. But we on the left are different eh, we just can’t compete with cabinet club.

                Better still, instead of the hollow campaign it would be great to see intelligent policy and strong leaders win out over the big mouthy money of the Natz club…….and we can…..

                • Colonial Viper

                  Labour used to own a stack of houses and commercial buildings. Almost all gone now.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  $20 per year raises $600k compared to the $7.8 millions that I suggested and meanwhile people will continue to complain that the left just can’t raise any funds.

                  Sure, have it so that beneficiaries only pay $1 per week but the party needs a reasonable income.

                  In Mana’s case they represent the poor and working poor so that membership fee is totally appropriate and considerate of their circumstances.

                  No it’s not as having it that low means that the party can’t do anything worthwhile and never will be able to. I’m sure that National and Act are quite happy with that state affairs though.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Sure, have it so that beneficiaries only pay $1 per week but the party needs a reasonable income.

                    The modern way of doing it is by owning solid yielding income generating assets. The old way of doing it is by tithing.

                    All in all however you’ve fallen into one of the usual traps you tend towards – thinking that something that appears quite possible in theory is even remotely possible in practice.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      So, why can’t it possibly be done? Why is it that the left just go on whinging about not having enough money when they have the possibility of having so much?

                      You and others have mentioned before that we need a left leaning media with full time journalists but the only way we could get that is through my suggestion of funding. The big problem with the left is that so many of them seem unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Well I agree with you Draco that funding is a major problem, and I agree with you that the funds we need to raise are in the several-million dollar per year mark.

                      But Labour is not the Left, and, using the example of building an effective media/news channel, we would want a Left alternative media/news channel, not a distinctly Labour one.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      But Labour is not the Left, and, using the example of building an effective media/news channel, we would want a Left alternative media/news channel, not a distinctly Labour one.

                      If each left party funded themselves the way I suggest then each party could put a small amount into Left Journalism. Or, each person on the left puts forward a dollar per week into it as a separate entity. Either way, it needs that security of of income to work.

                  • Rosie

                    Drax, folks would have to have a huge amount of faith based belief in a party to part with their cash on a weekly basis when their budget is is so tight, and that scenario wades into destiny church territory, tithing the poor.

                    Think about the large membership within the Labour party for example that translate to actual active activists compared to the number of Nat members who couldn’t be arsed doing anything apart from throwing cash at their party – the difference is in the functioning of the membership. One functions the lazy way and one functions in the determined proactive collaborative way.

                    How can we really expect a beneficiary to contribute in an ongoing financial way to a party? Is that even fair? Those who can and want to support parties such as Mana are always free to donate. Growing their membership with the incentive of a small fee is the right thing for such a party. Such a party can’t turn members away because they are expected to continually stump up. It may be OK for National and Act, not so much for the struggling.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Drax, folks would have to have a huge amount of faith based belief in a party to part with their cash on a weekly basis

                      Surly that would be why they joined the party in the first place? If they didn’t have the belief that the party could change things then they wouldn’t have joined.

                      One functions the lazy way and one functions in the determined proactive collaborative way.

                      There’s been a few times when I’ve been asked to do some volunteer work for parties and have had to turn them down because I couldn’t afford to get there. I could afford to donate a couple of dollars per week though.

                      How can we really expect a beneficiary to contribute in an ongoing financial way to a party?

                      Because it’s needed.

                      Is that even fair?


                      Growing their membership with the incentive of a small fee is the right thing for such a party. Such a party can’t turn members away because they are expected to continually stump up.

                      Growing the numbers isn’t going to help much if the party is continually too short on cash to actually do anything. In fact, that will, eventually, result in those numbers going down, the party achieving and becoming little more than a foot note in history. This, IMO, is what has truly happened to the Alliance.

    • Colonial Viper 1.2

      Nice analysis.

    • Clemgeopin 1.3

      Well said, Tiger Mountain and Toutoko Viper!

      • North 1.3.1

        PLUS PLUS PLUS to all of the above. It’s fucking hilarious how pure can be the impure when it comes to Hone Harawira and Mana. But two examples – Kelvin Davis and Te Ururoa Flavell.

        Davis and Flavell over a cuppa –

        “Jeez he’s a hoha that Hone. Defiant, aggressive, profane, wild-card, dripping with mana, not beholden, fool of no one, cunning, charming, intelligent. And bro’…….we really like the bugger. Wish he’d respect the boundaries us fullas slapped on him !

        Oh well……on with the dance.

        We doin’ OK Sirs……Dave……John ?”

    • Chooky 1.4

      The Right wing Nact reaction to this merger is entirely predictable….and racist . Maori are and have been very astute both in warfare and business….Hone is in this tradition.

      ( It is only colonial devastation of their culture and patronising and sometimes outright racism in New Zealand that has kept the Maori on the backfoot)

      Yes Maori Party Flavell is self serving and so is Davis…as regards Davis ,the last thing the Left needs is a Labour MP criticising Mana/Dotcom, a winning combination for a Labour coalition win….and as for Flavell the hypocrisy of his criticisms is gob smacking…

      Bomber Bradbury on the Maori Party criticising Mana/Dotcom

      “A brief word on the Maori Party reaction to Internet MANA

      The Maori Party have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to John Key, they have their own relationship issues to deal with, perhaps that’s where Flavell needs to turn his attention before he starts critiquing MANA?…..The despicable and disgusting manner Te Ururoa Flavell and the Maori Party went about expelling Hone and then sucking up to National for almost 6 years gives them no moral high ground to attack MANAs strategic decision to enter into an alliance with the Internet Party. ….


    • Bearded Git 1.5

      +100 TM

  2. DC was playing down imigration on the news last night….i like DC but he,s sending such mixed signals you have to wonder whose showing him how to blow a whistle……I know i,m being blunt but I feel this is a sad road to go down……

    [lprent: This commenter has been on my watchlist as a probable right astroturfer for some time. He parrots anti-cunliffe lines with no argument underlying them. You’d think that they could find someone with better tactics. ]

  3. Paul 3

    Another hostile and prejudiced interview by Espiner this morning. This time an attempted hatchet job on Harawira.
    Total disgrace to public broadcasting.
    Morning Report now a travesty.

    Followed by another interview with the Internet Party where he interrupted the interviewee several times.
    Quite different to the cosy way he chats with his mate fellow wealthy mate John Key.

    At one stage Espiner even said that Key’s views had some validity.
    Why doesn’t he just Key to join him in the studio?
    Absolute disgrace that our tax payer money is being used for this propaganda.

    • David H 3.1

      Do what I do when I hear this sort of Drivel from Espiner or anyone elses blatant bullshit lines I lay a FORMAL complaint so far the count is about 19 for Espiner and I have lost count on Gower. As for Garner he’s a nobody now. No wonder he’s bitter. So I will; have a listen and maybe yet another Formal for Espiner to collect sooner or later they have to listen, but other people doing the same would help.


    • David H 3.2

      Sorry, but to me it sounded like Espiner did not like what he was hearing, but when ever he tried to change the subject he got a no no and Hone just carried on with his message. Nope Espiner was not a happy camper at the end of that interview. And that make me happy. But yes Morning report is a shadow of it’s former self, and the hiring of Espiner was the Travesty.

      • Bearded Git 3.2.1

        Yep Gavid I thought Hone was superb-Cunliffe/Turei/Norman should take note

    • Rosie 3.3

      I don’t know how you can put yourself through the Guyon Espiner spin Paul. The guy is nothing but a self important nat mouthpiece.

      I used to read his columns yonks ago and thought as much then, but in all that time he hasn’t learnt anything. And lols, about eight years ago I was at a Buy NZ Made campaign launch that was hosted at a unionised factory, so of course there were several union organisers and leaders there as guests.

      Espiner’s was there covering the launch for whatever TV station he was working for at the time. The look on his face was priceless, a mix of utter contempt and slight tension, as if he was the fox in the chicken coop, but he wasn’t sure if the chickens were going to round on him. Since then I’ve always viewed him as a joke.

      • Ron 3.3.1

        The real answer seems that we need abandon National Radio. (aptly names ain’t it) But what to replace it with. I look at the success that Public Radio has had in USA where it is supported by its listeners, Wonder if something similar could be done here. Here is a piece from Wiki about NPR

        NPR, formerly National Public Radio, is a privately and publicly funded non-profit membership media organization that serves as a national syndicator to a network of 900 public radio stations in the United States.
        NPR produces and distributes news and cultural programming. Individual public radio stations are not required to broadcast all NPR programs that are produced. Most public radio stations broadcast a mixture of NPR programs, content from rival providers American Public Media, Public Radio International and Public Radio Exchange, and locally produced programs. NPR’s flagships are two drive time news broadcasts, Morning Edition and the afternoon All Things Considered; both are carried by most NPR member stations, and are two of the most popular radio programs in the country
        NPR manages the Public Radio Satellite System, which distributes NPR programs and other programming.

        • Wonderpup

          Ron, all over the country is a network of community radio stations, mostly funded (badly) by NZ on Air, and partly by fundraising from local committees. They fill the role SBS does in Australia, as well as providing a voice for all sorts (and I do mean all sorts) of community groups.

          There is no better or simpler way of easily creating a podcast than doing a live show on community radio (c.f. The Sustainable Lens on Radio, http://sustainablelens.org/ 1).

          However, as much as I support Community Radio, an entirely state sponsored, ad free, independent media source is absolutely necessary. Radio is a cheap medium to produce, but we should also be looking at TV, and web resources. It shouldn’t be left to (as much as I love them) amateurs.

          The kvetching about Espiner et al. on here will be seen as a vindication of his employment by management at RNZ (and their masters). At last, the lefty liberals on RNZ have been neutered, they will be thinking, and they are complaining about it as much as we used to. Schadenfreude.

          1) After moving to Christchurch, I am no longer actively involved in this magnificent show, other than providing web hosting and a bit of tech support.

          • Rosie

            Excellent point about the community radio stations Wonderpup. There are alternatives that people might like to look for their listening pleasure.

            Twice I have provided the frequency and website for on line listening for Radio Active’s Thursday morning 25 minute interview with Grant Robertson and Alistair Thompson from Scoop but only two people were interested. I especially encouraged people to listen last week to the analysis of the Campbell Live show about the string pulling at the GCSB – it was a good listen! The DJ’s themselves on the morning shows are Left and Proud!

            There are other independent alternative stations around the country that folks can tune into. I’m not sure if BFM in Auckland still does a political show on a weekday morning but Aucklanders might want to look into that. And what about RDU in Dunedin?
            One TS commenter even has their own slot on a station in Raglan!

            I tend to listen to RNZ for the news first thing in the morning and then at 5pm but it’s not on at times in between.

            It is good that people are complaining loudly about the content and bias on RNZ, however a search around the web for other political news and analysis might result in a healthy reduction in blood pressure.

      • phillip ure 3.3.2

        [email protected] rosie..

        ..plus one..

        ..i haven’t even bothered listening to him..

        ..for all the reasons you list..

        ..he is a rightwing trout…

        ..and that joke of a dancing-current-affairs show (360-something?)..he did with garner was a bit of a final straw for me..

      • North 3.3.3

        Rosie…….had a similar experience re Potty Gower at the Mana launch in Pt Chevalier a few years ago. There he was with a look on his face suggestive that he was really pissed off even being in proximity to such nothing rabble. In his cheap, crumpled, no-whiff-of-wool, too tight suit.

        You paint the snotty little lispy lipped Guyon Espiner so well. I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts he went to Scots College where he was the little narky boy who regularly took the secret back door corridor to Headmaster’s Study.

        • Rosie

          Thats very funny about Gower, North, and quite telling as well.

          Oh, and that shiny tight polyester suit. Ugh. Certainly not a supporter of NZ Wool Week – (on now!)


        • Once was Tim

          @ North – a bit over the top to many folk, but no truer word spoken in jest. One doesn’t expect those in the public eye should have to make public their private lives, but there is a very real and fundamental dishonesty going on there.
          I’ve never gone along with all that ‘what plays in Vegas stays in Vegas’ crap but IF they expect that to play out – and most jonolists and pollies seem to these days, then those living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones (if ya get what I mean because if you don’t, then an explanation would have to be borderline Whalescum).
          Let’s NOT buy into it.
          Turn the cnut off. In fact turn off Natrad 0600-1900 weekdays – there are better options

    • weka 3.4

      “Another hostile and prejudiced interview by Espiner this morning. This time an attempted hatchet job on Harawira”

      Do you mean the interview with Harawira? I just listened and I can’t see what’s wrong with it. I haven’t listened to Espiner on RNZ before, so am not putting this interview in any kind of context. He asked pertinent questions (eg about when the agreement ends), he wasn’t aggressive or hostile. He did interrupt a bit, but I don’t think it was out of the ordinary for RNZ interviewers. I wouldn’t say it was a great interview, but I can’t see how it can be classified as hostile and prejudiced either.

      Harawira was very good and I came away from the interview understanding more about what is going on.


      • North 3.4.1

        I think the point is that Espiner’s impatient, rude, even ill-tempered interruptions betray a readiness to shut-down with hectoring, selected targets. And lo, whom does he always seem NOT to interrupt or hector ? Well, ShonKey Python and most of his ministers of course.

        Relative carte blanche for them. “You’ve got 90 seconds. Go for it.” – overstating just a little to illustrate a seeming taste for National Party political broadcasts.

        At best it’s status quo bias in the unartful. At a worse level it’s licking Tory arse.

        The hoot is that wee Guyon knows (as do they all) that Hone’s a bit of a wild card and might just slap him down embarrassingly if he goes too “yelly private school boy” on him. Bit of fear there. Winston but more measured.

        • weka

          Thanks, that makes sense. So Espiner’s rudeness is obviously partisan, whereas someone like Kim Hill is rude across the board?

          I do think that we need to be careful about not damning everything with the same critique.

  4. new top-ranker in the political-commentators-talking-utter-shite-awards..

    ..that michael parkyn on tv one..

    ..after a period of watching his work..

    ..i have come to the conclusion…

    ..that he hasn’t really got a fucken clue..

    ..and just stumbles along in the wake of whatever happens…

    ..gaping like a guppy…

    latest example:..his claims the internet party have done a real number on mana/harawira..(!)..

    • and he outright calls harawira a liar..

      ..for his claiming there has been no discussion with dotcom re his immigration/deportation-woes..

    • bad12 4.2

      Laughable aint they Phillip, i didn’t catch the name of the ivory tower expert Professor,(dipshit will suffice until memory returns), i heard this morning on the radio pontificating various scenrio of doom and gloom as a result of the InternetMana alliance,

      (i should imagine they will never mention the doom and gloom they most fear, such an alliance providing the numbers to oust Slippery the PM and this used car salesman Government),

      Contrast that with the words of someone from up in the Rohe saying the confirmation of this alliance has got a definite ‘Buzz’ going,


      Annette Sykes Facebook page is said to have ‘lit up’ with 99% positive comments from those who logged on to comment,

      Shock horror, 3 Mana Party members are said to have quit the Party in protest at the alliance and with such news i can well imagine Hone having to be put on some powerful anti-depressants, sarc/

      The membership of Mana DOUBLED under the weight of mainstream media scrutiny of the proposed InternetMana alliance, it just doubled again with the confirmation,

      3–4% of the Party vote in September and i can see Hone Harawira, Annette Sykes, and John Minto as MP’s, my vote will be saying a big YES to that…

  5. Not a PS Staffer 5

    The attack, by Stephen Joyce, on Student Representation on University Councils is an great opportunity for Labour to engage with the student population. Labour needs to have lively branches in each 3rd level institutions.
    University of Auckland is nearly as big as Dunedin. It should have a branch in each School. Branches in each campus of UIT, AUT etc are a pre-requisite to Labour engaging effectively with the student population and getting the youth vote out.
    The NZ Council should take a lead role in expanding the Labour presence in 3rd level education.

    • Kiwiri 5.1


      Yup. Labour and the wider progressive left parties should make full use of the opportunities! Also, not just students but also staff and potentially reaching out to families of both.

      • Wyndham, George 5.1.1

        Unfortunately Labour has abdicated its responsibilty to the useless Princes Street branch.
        Only when the Gen Sec and the Council take back its responsibility will Labour get proper traction with this critical population.

        • Colonial Viper

          The last thing Labour needs are people who decide to be political careerists and hangers-on at 19 years of age, and then decide that Labour is the convenient vehicle that they want to do that through.

    • Tracey 5.2

      labour wont go near anything that looks like a union in case middle nz doesnt like it.

  6. Herodotus 6

    Auckland will increase by 23.5 per cent from $9775 to $12,075 . And as a result affordable housing has just increase by $2,300.so those houses that are to be built under the Kiwibuild are becoming less affirdable for the middle class !!
    In one quick action nationals savings to build a house has been wiped out negating this, now a wated effort to those looking for help to build a home.

    • BM 6.1

      It’s almost as if Auckland council is purposely trying to halt housing development.

      Maybe it’s time National stepped in and took over, they’d have massive support if they did.

      • lprent 6.1.1

        They aren’t. And National wouldn’t be welcome by anyone apart from non-aucklander like you because they’d tax everyone else in the city to pay for their land developer mates housing projects.

        The council are the body who tax me to pay for such basic things as the services that make those types of out of the urban area developments habitable. They are extraordinarily expensive compared to brownfield sites closer to the city. That is why the council is trying to intensify existing brownfields rather than building new subdivisions 20+ kilometres from the city.

        FFS The proposed Kumeu development is 25 km from the city and currently has limited water feed, sewerage feeds, and indeed any public services from the council or council owned entities.

        For instance running a electrifying that rail line out to the Kumeu development. This is something that the central government is extraordinarily reluctant to pay for. And no wonder, the commuter train out there had to be shut down due to its excessive costs to ratepayers.

        I tell you what. Perhaps you should lobby the central government to allow the council to force the developers to pay for the electrification or the commuter trains – gte that and other costs built directly and upfront into the housing prices. Then lets see how economic that development (and others like it are).

        This is just one amongst many of the services that the fuckwits like Brownlees and Key are expecting me to pay for to make for a “cheap” greenfield housing development on the outskirts of the city.

        I say that if you want developments out there, then you should pay for it through general taxes. In the meantime keep that other Christchurch git Brownlee out of Auckland and down there with you. He already seems to be having fun bankrupting that city.

        • BM

          I know National would never step in, that would be suicidal.

          According to google maps it would take around 24 minutes in traffic to drive from Kumeu to Queens st.
          I would have though that wasn’t too bad for Auckland.

          • wtl

            According to google maps it would take around 24 minutes in traffic to drive from Kumeu to Queens st.

            This might be true under very good traffic conditions, but not once traffic starts to build up. It could easily be 3 or 4 times that amount of time during rush hour.

          • KJT

            It used to take my wife over an hour to drive from The city to Te Atatu! in the rush hour, Dimwit.

          • Naturesong

            Having lived in Waimauku previously for 2 and a half years (the motorway extension and interchange was finished about halfway through my stay) I can assure you that between the hours of 7am and 9am (and 2 or 3 times a week you can extend that window by an extra half hour before and after) you want to budget at least 60 to 90 minutes travelling into the city from kumeu (more if you were exceptionally unlucky).

            Thankfully, due to the nature of my work, I wasn’t compelled to be in the city at a specific time, or required to work in the office everyday so the traffic only affected me when I either forgot about the traffic (I’m not a morning person), or had morning meetings.

          • karol

            The North Western motorway actually runs pretty freely most of the peak period.

            At morning peak time, it takes me from 30-45 min to get from Kelston to the North Western motorway via the Waterview connection. This is partly because the ramp lights only let a certain number of vehicles onto the motorway at a time.

            Coming back in aftrnoon peak time, from about 4-4.30pm, there’s a big queue (and growing) to get off the motorway at the same interchange.

          • Tracey

            first you wrote they would have massive support, then later that it would be suicide. The problem with just being a parrot for the right is that you reveal their contradictions.

            I can get from st lukes to henderson, via the motorway, outside peak times between ten and fifteen minutes.

            Auckland central is now as busy off peak as it was during peak 15 years ago.

          • Molly

            National DID step in. They refused to ratify the Unitary Plan unless the development of SHA’s were implemented. In many cases these SHA’s are a continuation of sprawl, and an ultra-fast and inexpensive way for landbankers to put forward for a change of landuse.

      • Tracey 6.1.2

        National want more houses but not more affordable houses and not too many. Joyce never reveals the value of the consents it trumpets or the areas they have been granted.

        For a govt that believed in keeping out of local govt it has taken it over bigtime.

    • DH 6.2

      Yeah, it’s the usual accounting bullshit. Watercare claimed $184,980,000 in depreciation which is classified as an expense for tax purposes but it’s not an actual expense. That reduced operating profit by $184 million. They then revalued assets upwards by $264 millon & claim a higher cost of capital as justification for increasing prices.

      The depreciation/revaluation scam is primarily why prices keep going up for the likes of power, water etc. It’s self perpetuating inflation.

      Their actual operating snapshot is;

      Operating revenue ;

      Water $134,978,000
      Waste water $272,818,000
      Trade waste $ 13,161,000
      Other $ 61,663,000

      Total revenue $482,620,000

      Operating expenses ;

      Water $ 69,675,000
      Wastewater $122,232,000
      Interest $ 71,632,000

      Total expenses $263,539,000

      Operating profit before depreciation $219,089,000

      This is interesting too….

      “During the year, tax losses of $27.8 million were sold to Ports of Auckland Limited (POAL), a related party. Based on an agreement between the parties, Watercare received a subvention payment of $3.5 million from POAL which equates to 45 cents per dollar of the tax impact of the losses sold. The balance of $24.3 million was recorded by Watercare as a loss offset with POAL.”

      • vto 6.2.1

        You’re onto it DH, that is exactly what goes on. Airports do it too. It is simply a deceit and rort on a grand scale.

      • Naturesong 6.2.2

        That’s been the primary source of rising power prices since the Bradford reforms.

  7. cricket..for why?..explained..

    “..The English are not very spiritual people” goes the quote – often attributed to George Bernard Shaw-

    -“so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity.”

    • The Al1en 7.1

      I do love the smell of neurons toasted on frosty mornings.

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        do you clean bars..?

        • The Al1en

          Throw another synapse on the griddle and cook ’til golden brown

          • phillip ure

            you peddle cancer-causing/unhealthy food..?

            ..help me here..!

            • phillip ure

              and of course..as a vegan/plant-based-diet person….

              ..i am growing my telomeres..

              ..and that makes my synapses happy little synapses..

              ..whereas you..as a carnivore/dairy-addict..(‘i couldn’t live without cheese..!’)..

              ..you are fraying/shredding/shortening yr telomeres..eh..?

              ..and that makes for sad synapses…eh..?

                • yes please..i’ll have one of those..

                    • no..whereas you..?

                      ..eating yr own telomeres..as you do..

                    • The Al1en

                      You do get that I’m not commenting on your diet, don’t you? 😆

                      But for the record, I’m a content omnivore, just like I was unintelligently designed to be.

                    • gee..!..allen..

                      ..you got me there..eh..?..

                      ..what actually were you saying..?

                      ..you loon..you…eh..?

                    • The Al1en

                      “what actually were you saying..?”

                      The first was how baked you must be to agree, through publishing, with the notion the English weren’t spiritual, bypassing 3000+ years of recorded spirituality.
                      And then linking it to the birth of cricket, which has been around since the sixteenth century, also by chance, around the time of the reformation and the birth of the church of England.

                      The second was the same gag, but a bit different.

                      The third was a tongue in cheek response to the drift off topic, in keeping with the theme of the first two.

                      The fourth, making it almost as clear as can be without calling you a raving mental.

                      The fifth, just to be sure we’re on the same page.

            • Chooky

              Here we are philip ure the “hen fellow”( omnivore) is being nice to you …and passing on to you something sent to her by a vegetarian. In this utube thingie about ‘The Truth About Cancer'( Episode One)…there is a lovely Vegan lady at the end of it saying how a vegan diet helped her defeat cancer…of course the conventionally minded in the medical profession who can brook no criticism wont be pleased about what they hear/see in this utube thingie because it is very critical of them in the nicest possible way….( but we wont worry about that)

  8. anker 8

    HI everyone,

    I am wondering if I can pick people’s brains/memories. I put into two complaints to the Press Council around the time David Cunliffe’s trust was in the news. There have been many delays getting my complaints heard.

    The Herald have responding saying that the “secret” trust by passed some of the requirements of electoral law. My memory is is that is BS. Can anyone reference anything for me on this?


    • bad12 8.1

      i have the sneaking feeling that the Herald might be close to right as you have outlined it, the Trust to collect donations was apparently within the Labour Party rules but such donations had to be revealed in (i think) the MP’s register of gifts received…

      • anker 8.1.1

        BAd 12 @ 8.1
        Thanks for your reply.
        Did Cunliffe not do that? I think it was revealed in pecuniary interests.

        It doesn’t matter if the Herald are correct, cause that wasn’t the point of my complaint. They have said that in their defence.

        • bad12

          Anker, again from memory, i think He did so after the initial explosion of bile from the media, giving back i think one donation as the donor didn’t want to be publicly known…

  9. joe90 9

    Michael Kirk, director of two part PBS documentary United States of Secrets, interviewed.


    Kirk: The thing that we learned that was, I think, most astonishing to many of the people I talked to was that the regulation, the agreement, the authorization that was written for Hayden to keep in his safe — the authorization that allowed many things that have been revealed by the Snowden revelations — was written by the vice president’s attorney; not Alberto Gonzales, the president’s attorney, not over at the Justice Department, but by the attorney for the vice president. … Not an elected official — David Addington is the lawyer’s name — not an appointed official in the sense that the Senate has confirmed him.

    He just went to an office and wrote something that is still a secret and kept it in his safe and once in a while would reveal it to some people to read. But an amazing number of people in even the Bush White House, certainly at the Justice Department and out at the National Security Agency, never read the document.

    All they knew was that something had been signed by the president and the attorney general that authorized them to walk across the bright white lines that had been established by Congress in the 1970s. … It was and is, I think, the darkest-kept secret that the government has had in recent times.


    • vto 9.1

      Yes, it is truly bizarre how people believe the US government when it says a plane hit the pentagon

      • joe90 9.1.1


        • vto

          ha ha, wtf is that thing? probably referencing my quite tangential comment to your post I imagine …. I just followed your link to a related place and got all lost in the pentagon explosion and lack of a plane, and footage, and more. JFK was shot by a lone gunman …

        • Paul

          Look at Building 7 before you ridicule people who question the official story.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Looked at it. Still ridiculing them.

            • vto

              Looked at the official story. Completely ridiculous.

              you work in the land of the official story dontcha

              • Colonial Viper

                Don’t challenge the narrative of the power elite…as long as it happens to be “our” power elite.

                • TheContrarian

                  Damn, I’m sorry I missed this.

                  ‘Truther’ arguments are so easily debunked it is almost a sport. Ahh well, next time.

    • freedom 9.2


      Almost five hours of facts, many of which are not public knowledge and many have not been seen outside of lecture halls and books. Facts that evicerate the Official Story, chapter and verse.

      No politics, no grand accusations, no whodunnit bullshit!
      Just the Official Story, taken apart, lie by lie.

      It is the best argument to date for a full and independent investigation of 9/11 to be undertaken.

    • Chooky 9.3

      Re: “All they knew was that something had been signed by the president and the attorney general that authorized them to walk across the bright white lines that had been established by Congress in the 1970s. … It was and is, I think, the darkest-kept secret that the government has had in recent times.”

      ‘The Curious Case of Philip Marshall’


      black ops, privatization of intelligence, privatization of ‘national security’, authoritarianism, fascism, death of democracy and freedom of information and public inquiry ?

  10. bad12 10

    Bastards!!! This is housing the poor from un-Housing Minister Nick Smith and National,

    HousingNZ issued 476 90 day notices to evict tenants in 2013, 80 of these notices were issued in the first four months of this year,

    In the 4 years leading up to 2007 just 1 eviction notice was issued,

    State tenants from across Auckland are holding a meeting at the Grey Lynn Community Center at 7pm tonight,

    You don’t have to be a State tenant to support State Housing, if you have the time and means to, get there and give all political parties the message….

    • BM 10.1

      Why were they evicted?, if they were destroying the houses or not following the rules, I say good.

      People have to realize these properties belong to New Zealand, they don’t belong to the tenant to do what they please.

      Obey the rules, look after the house otherwise go live under a bridge.

      That’s the options.

      • freedom 10.1.1

        Wow, that is possibly the most ignorant statement you have ever written on these boards BM, and that is quite an achievement.

        Maybe you completely missed the widespread ongoing sales of State Housing the Minister is actively engaged in? I find it odd to ask that, because I am pretty sure you have commented on quite a few threads that discussed that very topic.

        The numerous protests, the police, the politicians, the newspaper articles, the tv news? Did none of this factor into your thinking before you slapped your hate on the table for public viewing.

        One thing I don’t understand is, if you are so concerned about NZ property that is owned by the people, why are you such an active supporter of the Government selling off any thing they can?

        • BM

          I’m a big fan of the government selling off the housing stock that is no longer suitable, old and run down or that now finds itself in very desirable expensive areas of town.

          The money raised can then be used to upgrade and add to the housing stock as it what is happening.

          I have actually written before that I have no problem with state housing, I don’t want to see people out living on the streets but I do expect people to respect and appreciate the house that they’re given to live in.

          • freedom

            So you admit knowing the Government selling off the housing stock is the likely cause for hundreds and hundreds of evictions, yet chose to write your original comment without including any reference to this leading fact and instead insinuated vandalism and a lack of respect for others as the probable cause.


            • BM

              Where are these people going are they just being turfed out onto the street?

              If they’re been shifted into another address they haven’t really been evicted.

              • freedom

                🙄 🙄 🙄

              • fender

                “If they’re been [sic] shifted into another address they haven’t really been evicted.”

                hahaha BM

                Next time you get banned from here just tell yourself you weren’t banned, you just shifted into whale slops haunted house….

        • Gosman

          Do you have any actual evidence that the total amount of housing stock that the State looks after is falling?

          • McFlock

            I’ll start looking when you provide evidence that you actually give a shit, you trool

          • Macro

            Why don’t you do some research Gos?
            You might be surprised by what you find.
            Might change your mind before making such idiotic comments..

      • bad12 10.1.2

        Destroying the houses BM is the sole province of un-Housing Minister Nick Smith, they are being kicked out of their State Houses so that Smith can send a bulldozer through them and sell the land to His developer buddies,

        Here’s how it works, source: Herald online today,

        A tract of the HousingNZ estate 155 homes will be emptied the houses destroyed and the land sold to ”a private developer”,

        The Private developer will then be free to build and sell whatever He/she decides to upon the land, Smith has guaranteed to buy back from the developer 75 houses to be used in the States housing estate for the price the developer dictates,

        Kaching kaching, the private developer gets to clip the ticket every which way courtesy of Smith’s use of the taxpayers monies and those most in need get half the houses to live in that they had befor…

        • Tracey

          interesting item on nat radio this morning about impact of transience on children and learning. Schools reporting kids moving several times a year as their parents move to go picking. Others moving to try and find cheaper accomodation and others showing whole families living in a single room in boarding houses.

          The children and their education and other development suffers.

          Makes a mockery of slylands et al claiming people should move and dont.

          They do and its harming their children.

          Includes work from the sallies so key must be due to claim the sallies need to get out more as he did last time they revealled facts like these.


  11. lprent 11

    I’ve just finished looking at the brief outage this morning. Was caused by a sudden spike in traffic escalating up from just after 0830 on top of a overseas seachbot running a scan. I need to fine turn the auto-scaler a bit more for kickstart sensitivity.

    On the upside, the routine to shutdown and restart the database when it has too many open connections worked in the real world. I watched it happen.

  12. Clemgeopin 12

    WHO is the well known, well respected surprise leader of the Internet party?

    In the following interview Mr Vikram Kumaar says, both the party heirarchy are pleased with the selection.

    I am trying to imagine who that might be. These are some of the names that came to me quickly. Of course, I could be far out!

    Shane Jones, David Shearer, Garrett Morgan, Sam Morgan, Dame Anne Salmond, Mai Chen……

    Do you have any guesses?

    • freedom 12.1

      Pete George !!! 😎

    • bad12 12.2

      Nope, but i was watching Mai Chen interviewed on Maori Television last night and wouldn’t mind at all if she were to be No1 on the Internet Party list, hence No2 on the InternetMana list…

      • yeshe 12.2.1

        +1 bad12 for Mai Chen and her inerview last night. Now I see NBR suggesting Seeby Woodhouse could be leader of IP ? That would be grand — such a smart and elegant Kiwi innovator !!!

        • karol

          NBR asked Seeby, who said “No”.

          They suggest other possibilities.

          My memory is Seeby still remains pretty much centre right.

          • yeshe

            well, we will know tomorrow ! very interesting …

              • Clemgeopin

                That is interesting because his name did cross my mind when I was thinking about it earlier this morning!

            • karol

              And now apparently NBR is tipping Laila Harre to lead the Internet Party. Wow! That’d be something!

              • Rosie

                Last I heard, Laila had opened a restaurant in Mt Eden, and that would be full on work and she ‘s a very hands on woman so juggling political leadership and a high energy business? Interesting thought though.

                • karol

                  Well, now the whole of Twitter is tweeting like Harre is the confirmed leader. Bomber are Bryce Edwards are going with that, too!

                  • blue leopard

                    Pretty impressive leader to have attracted!

                  • Rosie

                    Verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting. I’ll with hold any speculation until its announced. I also thought from the days when I used to read TDB that Laila said she had joined the Greens…………..but things change don’t they and it would be F’n awesome to see Laila back in the house. I have a lot of respect for her and she is a very hard worker.

                    Picture this: Annette Sykes takes Waiariki from Te Uroroa Flavell, Hone Harawira retains Te Tai Tokorau, National takes Epsom (long shot I know but we can fantasise) Laila picks up a seat via Mana’s success, we somehow manage to dispose of Dunne we would have a shiny new Government and the Blues would be banished!!!!

                    • yeshe

                      Rosie .. I just read Laila resigned from Greens last December … yes, yes, time to dream isn’t it !!!

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Picture this: Annette Sykes takes Waiariki from Te Uroroa Flavell, Hone Harawira retains Te Tai Tokorau

                      Labour needs to facilitate this. Finishing off the Maori Party as the Tory pet party needs to be a strategic priority.

                    • yeshe

                      on Stuff now …


                      HARRE HAS GREEN PARTY’S BLESSING

                      Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said Harre resigned from the Greens last December.

                      “She decided that she wanted to move on to other things and do other work,” she said.

                      She was not concerned that Harre had taken trade secrets with her, saying Harre was “a trustworthy person” who had “every democratic right to be part of another party and to lead it if she wants to”.

                      Harre was not being lined up as a Green party candidate and had not spoken with Turei about the Internet Party.

                      “I’ve only heard what you’ve heard, which is on the Twitter,” Turei said.

                      She was not concerned that Harre’s defection would take votes from the Greens.

                    • Rosie

                      Run out of reply buttons so I hope this comes out beneath yeshe’s reply.

                      Thanks for that and the stuff article. I had also heard on rnz news at 5 that Laila had indeed resigned from the Greens’ last December.

                      And CV, it be would a fabulous boost to Labour’s chances should this happen but I think bad12 mentioned that David Cunliffe stated on the radio yesterday that Labour had the goal to win back the Maori seats?

                      Whats with not being up with the modern MMP way of strategic voting promotion? As I mentioned yesterday, Brett Hudson for National has made no bones about not pursuing the electorate vote in Ohariu, just the party vote, as a way of trying to retain Dunne so why the reluctance from Labour?

                      We all want a Labour Green Government!

              • Tamati

                NBR are pretty confident about the Harre call. Doubt they would be this bold if they weren’t certain.

              • yeshe

                I thought it was telling when Kumar referred to “the person” who would be leader … but thought it was my own wishful thinking … how superb if it is Leila Harre … exciting times ! See you shonkey — bye !!

    • yeshe 12.4

      Oh, it couldn’t be Tau Henare could it ?

  13. Marius 13

    ahaha. And true to form there’s Plunket putting the shit into Islam with a 5 minute rant about stonings and killings. I bet Sean won’t be doing the same one sided crap about israel running over Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer or the fact they are committing war crimes/crimes against humanity in Palestine any time soon. As for Sean’s disgust at John Minto protesting outside Key’s house – tough luck. Minto should have gone in and jumped up and down on the sofa while ‘bronnie’ (Key likes to call her that in his interviews with Marcus so we all feel like part of the family) remained calm and thumbed through the 2014 Ballantynes Christmas catalogue. Sorry Sean, if a prime minister insists on getting around with his boots hanging out of obama’s asshole his family deserves to be told a few things they don’t know about themselves.

    • Gosman 13.1

      Do you think it is acceptable to target Politician’s family then? If so it there could be a rather nasty blowback the other way.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        Which part of this was targetting a politicians family with harm or threats?

        You have an over-active imagination.

      • freedom 13.1.2

        I am compelled to enquire, what nasty reaction do you have in mind Gosman?

        What is the considered repsonse to the abject horror and terror of a vigil of peace.

        What return fire do you deploy to balance the bodycount created during the chilling emotional attack that was unleashed upon the lives of the Prime Minister’s family as a group of citizens, lit by candle light, stood on a public street asking for the lives of innocents to be respected?

        • Tracey

          In China it would attract the death penalty. I am not sure how far collins has got getting this measure past cabinet. Gosman will fight until he might have to actually do something for her right to do that.

          • Colonial Viper

            In China it would attract the death penalty.

            That wouldn’t happen for just a peaceful sign waving protest, even if involved Communist Party leadership.

            Getting dragged to the local police station, held without charge and having the shit beaten of you over 48 hours for “resisting arrest”…well, I supose that may be a distinct possibility.

      • Daveosaurus 13.1.3

        Do you think it is acceptable to target Politician’s family then?

        I wouldn’t have thought so. Then again, I wouldn’t have thought so last month, either, when the Tories had a go at Cunliffe’s grandfather’s war service. It seems that an unfortunate precedent has been set.

      • Macro 13.1.4

        Key obviously has no qualms about targeting and killing other families.
        But his was not targeted – it was just him.

  14. Marius 14

    John Minto offered no violence to anybody and i doubt he ever has. The man has a decency about him regarding human rights and apartheids. I admire him a real whole bunch. And that is from someone who threw lots of things at him in 1981.

  15. captain hook 15

    the thing is fatface herself is on the tv right now insulting the the whole country with her bombastic bullshit. one day she will go pop. I hope its on tv.

  16. greywarbler 16

    A discussion on what the NACTs are doing to our justice system and taking an arrogant line with lawyers using the on-line system as an excuse. They are being treated with the contempt that is adopted to teachers by gummint. And there are a lot of lawyers in parliament – seemingly they don’t respect the law and all who sails in her, and think that everyone else is a pirate.

    Law with Robert Lithgow ( 19′ 17″ )
    11:28 Robert Lithgow, the new Criminal Procedure Act.

    Lawyers can be fined for slackness, for not filing their papers in time, and if late they will not be paid. Then the demands of the procedures required mean that it is time consuming business to prepare the papers to meet requirements.

    The justice system is bug…ed (my thought) – $millions spent on a paperless system, which is a failure because it can’t be finished. The law has been passed to run the on line system which now is not complete, but the lawyers have to comply with the law provided for that system. And it is stupid. Paperless systems are hidden systems, virtually encrypted from the point of the view of the ordinary person – you can’t read a CD without a machine.

    It sounds like a system thought up by Dame Margaret Bazley – somebody has been speaking to the police who say this and that – yet the preliminary information has not been discussed with the lawyers.

    Banana republic no. We haven’t got any bananas.

  17. yeshe 17

    This is so, so sad; the worst ‘canary in the coal-mine’ signal for us all …


  18. Marius 18

    Kueenstown Kop up on racial abuse charges. cant wait for greg o connor to come out and defend this one.

    • Murray Olsen 18.1

      Simple. If she’d had a gun she wouldn’t have been forced to abuse him. He should be thankful that Newzild has the best police force in the world.

  19. Colonial Viper 19

    Lovely, Peter Thiel US investment magnate, who has made regular trips here to NZ talking business and foreign investment, is part of the Bilderberg Group.


  20. bad12 20

    Befor i forget in all the sugar rush surrounding the Internet Party leader i just have to say Go Brendon Who you good thing,

    Brendon Who, soon to make His seat in the Parliament as vacant as the look on His face yesterday launched another attack on Winston and NZFirst claiming, shock horror, that NZFirst had used a Parliamentary staffer to do Party work,

    Who would dare suggest that Brendon Who’s two week largely toothless attack on Winston Peters is motivated wholly by revenge,

    In the vein of every little bit helps, Go you good thing Brendon Who..

  21. Penny Bright 21

    Seen this?


    High time for NZ to ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) and establish a genuinely Independent Commission Against Corruption.

    While we’re at it – where’s National’s review of ‘corporate welfare’?


    (Seems there is a link between corporate welfare and corruption?

    What are the connections between those awarding the contracts and those to whom the contracts are awarded?

    Seen this?


    Awarded contracts

    Auckland Transport is committed to ensuring its procurement activities are undertaken in an ethical and transparent manner.

    The attached lists detail all of the contracts awarded in the previous six months that are valued over $50,000.00. Details include:

    the contract number,
    the contract name,
    the supplier, and the
    award value.

    View the latest awarded contracts list (PDF 52KB)

    (https://at.govt.nz/media/353833/AwardedContracts.pdf )

    Disclaimer: we endeavour to list all contracts awarded above the value of $50,000.00 in the previous six months. Whilst all possible care and effort has been taken to ensure accuracy in this list, we accept no responsibility for any errors or omissions. Accordingly, this list should be used for reference only.”

    Now check for links between ‘contracts issued’ by Auckland Transport, and member companies for the Committee for Auckland:


    (You may note that in a truly ‘transparent’ way – the Committee for Auckland membership list now no longer gives the NAMES of those who represent their companies?

    Gosh – I wonder why that is???

    Now look for that ‘devilish detail’ on the Auckland Council website regarding ‘contracts issued’?


    Looking forward to the considered opinion of the ‘Taxpayers Union’ on these matters …..

    Penny Bright

  22. bad12 22

    Hell State of Origin is on free to air so late tonight that the fast fading grey matter inside my cranial cavity is going to need so much coffee that i am going to start behaving like i’ve been on a ‘fries’ bender for a month,

    Thank various deity, real or imagined that Backbencher’s is on at 10.30 or i would have to subject myself to that insane little obscenity that TV3 choose to inflict on us all, probably a fate far more damaging than that month long ‘fries’ bender…

  23. blue leopard 23

    Something very odd just occurred in Parliament in the vote of Sue Moroney’s paid parental leave bill. Sue explained that Flavell is away because the birth of his first grandchild is occurring and National didn’t allow him to vote for this bill in absence on compassionate grounds. This was dubious enough of National, however….

    Straight after Moroney had relayed this it was time to vote and when it came to the Maori party vote a National member got up and voted the Maori Party as 3 votes against. In response, Moroney got up and tried to table an email saying that the Maori party was voting for the bill, this process, however, was delayed by the Speaker who got up and said he had to accepted the ‘3 against’ vote, and relayed that they had to take the word of whoever said it, because the person must realise it is extremely serious to meddle with another party’s vote.

    I am unable to check the draft transcripts because it only just happened. Can’t quite believe what I just heard – something isn’t right at all. Moroney reckoned they had a majority if it weren’t for National not allowing Flavell to vote in absence.

    • Clemgeopin 23.1

      That is interesting and I hope the MSM will make this an issue.

      However, I am not sure how, even if you include the 3 Maori votes to Moroney’s bill, she would have have had the majority. (I am of course assuming that Banks and Dunne would have voted with the nasty Nats here which gives Nats 1 vote majority.)

      • blue leopard 23.1.1

        I think United Future voted for the bill, Mana, Labour, Greens, NZ First, and Brendan Horan (have I spelt that correct – the weatherman) voted for it. Maori were supposed to – according to Moroney. The vote as counted tonight was 63 to 58 or 9 – with the Maori Party that would have been a majority for the bill…..

        Yes, kind of good – Gower won’t have to make anything up tomorrow night (perhaps?!)

        Bets on whether it is reported at all…..

        • Clemgeopin

          Kind of strange!

          Who voted for the Maori party on their behalf? Normally, the speaker corrects errors if any. Wonder why he didn’t? In any case, may be hopefully, they will correct it tomorrow!
          Labourr (and Maori party?!) should make a BIG noise about this.

          • blue leopard

            Ah! some confirmation, despite seeing it with my own eyes, I could hardly believe it

            Hope this twitter link works:

            (I didn’t see who voted for the Maori Party, but believe it was a National member)

            • weka

              Where were the other Māori party MPs?

              • blue leopard

                Good question!

                There are conversations going on on Twitter, one person said that the other two were voting against, that National gave compassionate leave at the last minute, and that is why the votes ended being cast – but they definitely cast 3 against the bill… others saying the Maori Party were all for the bill…clearly some confusion going on….

                • Colonial Viper

                  If the Maori Party MPs were really “FOR” the bill, they could let the country know easily and quickly.

                  I hope that the Maori Party MPs were closely monitored by Labour leading up to today ensure that they were not somehow persuaded to change their votes to “AGAINST”. Being absent and letting someone else cast your backstabbing vote is a time honoured way of becoming a turncoat.

    • karol 23.2

      Word on twitter is that the Nats cast the MP votes against their wishes.

    • karol 23.3

      Turei has tweeted there’s “curious little huddle of Nat ministers just outside the chamber.”

    • Draco T Bastard 23.4

      This was dubious enough of National,

      Nope, you have to get permission from the Speaker to be away before the day arrives.

      Straight after Moroney had relayed this it was time to vote and when it came to the Maori party vote a National member got up and voted the Maori Party as 3 votes against.

      Was there not an mP member there?

      In response, Moroney got up and tried to table an email saying that the Maori party was voting for the bill,

      That also requires proper process and it sounds like Moroney didn’t follow it.

      • blue leopard 23.4.1

        How would he know his daughter was going to be in labour? It may have been last minute stuff. I am repeating what I heard Moroney say on parliament channel and suggested read the draft transcript when it appears.

        [check out such gus’s comments and katie bradford’s on twitter]

        • Draco T Bastard

          How would he know his daughter was going to be in labour?

          Basic communication? Doctors can predict, fairly accurately, when a baby is due and so he could have arranged time out before hand.

          I’m more concerned with National apparently taking the mP’s votes against their will. There is a process there as well and it’s possible that both sides have it wrong.

          • blue leopard

            Most people I know were born ‘two weeks late’, it seems so consistent I would think that the formulae they use is wrong, however others are on time and others are early, so perhaps it pans out.

            Yes it is rather odd what occurred and Moroney’s final speech will be well worth the read once it comes out because it appears National played some very underhand tactics to stop the bill going through despite knowing there was a majority

          • weka

            Draco, there is a significant difference between when a baby’s due date is, and when it actually arrives. Could Flavell have gotten permission to be absent any time over a month?

            • Draco T Bastard

              Most of my nephews and nieces and great nephews and nieces have been born within a couple of days of the due date.

              As for what he could have done, well, that comes down to speaking to the Speaker about his need to be away but that the day would be undetermined. Then it comes down to the Speaker having any humanity.

  24. Clemgeopin 24

    Reminder for those interested:

    Prime TV Alerts Service:

    21:30 (2 minutes ago)

    to me

    A friendly reminder from Prime to watch the following programme:

    BACK BENCHES, ON PRIME, Wednesday (TODAY) 10:30PM.

    New Zealand is still the third fattest nation in the OECD, so what can we do about it? Wallace and Damian chew the fat with a panel of MPs about this, Generation Y voters, and immigration issues. PGR more

    You asked us to send you a reminder to watch the rest of the shows in this series - if you do not want to receive these emails, please unsubscribe

  25. fisiani 25

    How much money did you make or lose on ipredict when the parental leave bill failed?

    • blue leopard 25.1

      lol, National have potentially cast an incorrect vote for another party and you are wondering how much money has been lost speculating?

      Of more interest is how much money are you going to lose when National lose? Or have you got a bob each way?

      • bad12 25.1.1

        i suspect that fisiani has as much money as ‘it’ has brains, zero seems to be the consensus as far as the question of brains goes…

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