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Open mike 28/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 28th, 2013 - 61 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

61 comments on “Open mike 28/07/2013 ”

  1. richard 1

    This type of abuse of New Zealander’s rights will only get worse if the GCSB bill is passed ….

    The New Zealand military received help from US spy agencies to monitor the phone calls of Kiwi journalist Jon Stephenson and his associates while he was in Afghanistan reporting on the war.

    A leaked New Zealand Defence Force security manual reveals it sees three main “subversion” threats it needs to protect itself against: foreign intelligence services, organisations with extreme ideologies and “certain investigative journalists”.

    In the minds of the defence chiefs, probing journalists apparently belong on the same list as the KGB and al Qaeda.


    • Veutoviper 1.1

      Thanks for posting that SST article, Richard.

      It is a very shocking and revealing article containg a lot of ‘meat’ – and obviously not one that was compiled overnight. AND well-timed.

      I am still trying to get my head around all the revelations and implications etc, but it would appear that both the NZSIS and possibly the GCSB were involved in monitoring Jon Stephenson’s communications and metadata.

      And NZSIS people stationed in Afganistan ….

      And timing of this monitoring – in the last half of 2012 – when we have been ‘told’ that a stop had been put to monitoring of NZers in August 2012 (and currently continues pending the passing of the GCSB Bill).

      And the contents of the NZDF manual …..

      Alert, people. This is a MUST read – a pity it did not come out before yesterday’s marches. But well-timed for before Parliament this week.

      • David H 1.1.1

        And the fact that all your contacts are known, and probably visited by the SAS, won’t give future confidential informants any piece of mind. And it will KILL off investigative journalism, because who in their right mind would want to say anything, if the Govt and others, can read all your emails and come down hard on the informant.

        • Murray Olsen

          There are ways of communicating with journalists that don’t involve email. They’ll slow investigative journalism down, but won’t kill it off.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2

      1) Forbes Thought Of The Day which seems appropriate given the impending data flood which is about to become law:
      “ No individual raindrop ever considers itself responsible for the flood. ”
      — Anonymous

      2) Think “THEY” can’t pick on you? Check out the following article which shows how a Ford Escape and Toyota Prius can be hacked. Sudden breaking, jerking of the steering wheel, tampering with the odometer and speedo…it’s just naaasty.

      That’s just great. Now you can only step out of line if you drive an old Holden Kingswood.

  2. Descendant Of Sssmith 2

    Watching the Australian news once again heard the reporter talking about reducing support for those at the bottom and that hard decisions had to be had.

    It seems quite evident that in the last 30 years this type of cutting is not hard in the least.

    It’s the norm.

    The hard decision would be to lift benefit rates, the hard decision would be to increase general taxation, the hard decision would be to increase workers rights, to increase the minimum wage, put back death duties or increase capital gains or ……..

    Picking on the lowest paid and those who are unwell or are unemployed is easy – it’s happening day after day after day.

  3. Paul 3

    After yesterday’s successful nationwide protests against the GCSB Bill, what to do next.
    Well, for one thing, take more control of the narrative.
    Challenge the mainstream media’s narrative, where FairFax’s Stuff website story says ‘hundreds’ attended the Auckland protest. Maybe their journalist should learn to count better.

    TV3 news attempted to smear the protests in Palmerston North and Wellington by referring to rocks being thrown and gates climbed. Well, according to witnesses this did not even happen.

    The Auckland Protest

    Maybe the Standard could take a lead and runs a post questioning the MSM’s handling of these protests.

    • Veutoviper 3.1

      I would also add Radio NZ News to that list. Here is their 5,37pm 27 July news item repeated throughout the night – but no longer on their main news page.


      “The internet businessman Kim Dotcom has joined hundreds of people rallying in Auckland against the Government’s Spy Agency bill.

      The march in Auckland is one of several which took place in towns and cities around the country.

      Up to 1500 people gathered near Auckland’s Aotea Square before the march to listen to speeches from politicians, academics and Kim Dotcom.

      He told the crowd the bill made New Zealand a puppet of the US government and called the prime minister John Key, “the biggest puppet of them all.”

      ….There was a similar sized march in Wellington and a smaller one in Christchurch….”

      Focus was entirely on KDC, no naming of others who spoke etc including Shearer.

      Auckland numbers appear low.

      No mention of numbers at other venues; and implies that marches were only in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch.


  4. Jenny 4

    “I am not a crook”

    Richard Nixon

    If you have to say it, you can’t but help condemn yourself.

    In a letter to the Russians US authorities say they will not torture or murder Edward Snowden in exchange for his return.


    “I can report that the United States is prepared to provide to the Russian government the following assurances regarding the treatment Mr. Snowden would face upon return to the United States,” Holder wrote. “First, the United States would not seek the death penalty for Mr. Snowden should he return to the United States.” In addition, “Mr. Snowden will not be tortured.

    Eric Holder, The US Attorney General in a letter sent to The Russian Minister of Justice, Alexander Vladimirovich Konovalov

    The American authorities also promise to hold an immediate trial of Edward Snowden, on his hand over to US custody. This is in contrast to the years of solitary confinement without trial that they have subjected other whistle blower Bradley Manning to.

    • Jenny 4.1

      In other news:

      From South Korea John Key makes an extraordinary statement, completely wiping his hands of any legal responsibility for New Zealand legal resident Kim Dotcom. Who the US are seeking to rendition to US territory from New Zealand.

      ….he’s got a long term agenda here, and that is to try to convince people that he should be allowed to stay forever. But in the end he really needs to make that case to the United States of America.”

      John Key The Prime Minister of New Zealand stuff.co.nz

      Key’s statement is extraordinary in two ways.
      New Zealand legal resident, Kim Dotcom is fighting his extradition to the US,. Which currently is a matter before the New Zealand courts. By saying that Kim Dotcom needs to make that case to the United States of America.” It could be argued that our Premier John Key is seeking to interfere and/or influence a matter that is before the New Zealand courts. Which is an offence.

      By saying that Dotcom “needs to make that case to United States of America” John Key is spitting in the eye of the whole New Zealand justice system, not to mention our whole system of residency and immigration. You have to ask If our Prime Minister thinks our courts or our system of granting legal residency has any validity at all. At least in this matter, For Key the answer is no.

      Unlike the Russians, John Key does not demand of the US, that they give at the very least their written assurance that Dotcom if rendered to the US Authorities would be given access to the courts and not left to rot in jail for years, in solitary confinement, without charge as happened to Bradley Manning.

      Without this assurance there is no way that New Zealand can render Dotcom to the US authorities without breaching his human rights, as set out under the United Nations charter of International Human rights, which guarantees the right to a fair trial, to which New Zealand is a signatory to.

      The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights

      • Jenny 4.1.1

        This must rank as one of the most bizarre statements ever made by any politician in the history of politics.

        ….he’s got a long term agenda here, and that is to try to convince people that he should be allowed to stay forever. But in the end he really needs to make that case to the United States of America.”

        John Key The Prime Minister of New Zealand stuff.co.nz

        So let’s get this straight

        The Prime MInister of New Zealand…
        Who’s main residence is in Hawaii….
        Speaking from South Korea…
        Says that a German national, namely Kim Dotcom…
        Who wants to stay in New Zealand…
        Has to make his case to America…


        When did New Zealand become a colony of the US?

        I think that John Key has somehow got his wires badly crossed if he thinks that New Zealand’s sovereignty to make is own decisions is somehow limited by the USA. Even if this was true. It still does not square with the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 2, paragraph 2.

        Article 2.

        Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

        Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

        • Murray Olsen

          “When did New Zealand become a colony of the US?”
          1951. The waterfront lockout was the government’s way of proving loyalty to their new master.

          • muzza

            It’s not the US we are a colony of.

            The US is controlled by the UK, but who is the UK controlled by?

            NZ is a colony of whoever controls the UK.

            NZ became a plantation, in the financial sense, back in the 19th century, as soon as money was borrowed from abroad.

            Being put under IMF control in 1961, sealed the deal!

            Conditionalities Policies!

  5. tiresias 5

    I recommend this article:


    containing this observation:

    “You see, democracy here at home must be balanced against the requirements of security, and it is simply too dangerous to leave the question of this balance to the democratic public. Open deliberation over the appropriate balance would require saying something concrete about threats to public safety, and also about the means by which those threats might be checked. But revealing such information would only empower America’s enemies and endanger American lives. Therefore, this is a discussion Americans can’t afford to have. Therefore, the power to determine that this is a discussion the public cannot afford to have cannot reside in the democratic public. That power must reside elsewhere, with the best and brightest, with those who have surveyed the perils of the world and know what it takes to meet them. Those deep within the security apparatus, within the charmed circle, must therefore make the decision, on America’s behalf, about how much democracy—about how much discussion about the limits of democracy, even—it is safe for Americans to have.

    This decision will not be effective, however, if it is openly questioned. The point is that is not up for debate. It is crucial, then, that any attempt by those on the inside to reveal the real, secret rules governing American life be met with overwhelming, intimidating retaliation. In order to maintain a legitimising democratic imprimatur, it is of course important that a handful of elected officials be brought into the anteroom of the inner council, but it’s important that they know barely more than that there is a significant risk that we will all perish if they, or the rest of us, know too much, and they must be made to feel that they dare not publicly speak what little they have been allowed know. Even senators. Even senators must fear to describe America’s laws to America’s citizens. This is, yes, democracy-suppression, but it is a vitally necessary arrangement. It keeps you and your adorable kids and even your cute pet dog alive.”

    Strike any chords?

  6. muzza 6


    The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

    The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations “without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries

    Once developed, the software could allow US service personnel, working around the clock in one location, to respond to emerging online conversations with any number of co-ordinated messages, blogposts, chatroom posts and other interventions. Details of the contract suggest this location would be MacDill air force base near Tampa, Florida, home of US Special Operations Command.

    The article well over 2 years old, indicates the operation will have been live for many years before this ever came to light.

    Military/spook types trooling the social media, who’d have thought!

    My expectation would be that in NZ for example, they would pick on the popular blog sites, perhaps they are monitoring all of them, who knows, but certainly the popular blog will be well under control. Spend any time on certain subject matter, on the larger blog sites, and you can see it in action, the posters names, and the content, are generally a dead give a way!

    • Adrian 6.1

      So how would they be implementing this?. How would they attack, who would they support ?. As John Key and the Nact Government are their obvious anointed ones, any threat to them must be countered. That means that there must be no chance of a left-wing Government and you would do that by destabilising the Labour leadership, painting it as incompetent and bumbling in some cases and in others as dangerous commie lovers, whose father might have been oh..say, a Red Reverend.
      So can we out any here on The Standard, can anyone think of anyone calling for the Labour leaders sacking or replacement?

      • marty mars 6.1.1

        Or maybe they believe that having shearer is the best chance for a continued reign of key so therefore supporting shearer helps them or maybe they know that we know that and therefore they DO add their voice against shearer, or maybe they know that we know they will do THAT so they actually attack those unhappy with shearer… Luckily they are not as sophisticated or talented as they believe they are and they give themselves away through the use of their language, or maybe they know that we know that and they deliberately sow seeds of confusion by pretending to be thick… the worse ones are the ones that you never find out about – the deep ones who only through luck get caught, and frankly, that could be anyone. One thing is sure though that the seeds of distrust and suspicion are tools for them and make their jobs easier.

        • Adrian

          Very clever Marty, but the military mind only attacks at the point of least resistance, and the Military Intellegence’s ( I know, an oxymoron, the word was coined I’m sure, to describe it ) job is to destabilise leadership so, attacks on Labour leadership is the first job. Attacks on the Greens however are not productive because the Labour/ Nat war is won among the central waiverers. How’s the weather at McGill AFB tonight?.

      • Rogue Trooper 6.1.2

        No surprises. And yes, anything but a left-wing government in New Zealand is essential to the imperialists and their toadies.

  7. Morrissey 7

    Humbug Corner


    “I asked him if, with the recent birth of the British royal baby, there was just the slightest tinge of regret that they had got rid of the French monarchy?”
    —-Chris Laidlaw, previewing his interview with the outgoing French ambassador Francis Etienne.
    Radio New Zealand National, Sunday 28 July 2013, 9:45 a.m.

    Humbug Corner gathers, and highlights, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More humbugs, mostly half-witted….
    No. 20 Nevil Gibson: “Well, everybody’s getting richer.”
    No. 19 Byron Bentley: “He is a great guy, a good man … very caring…”
    No. 18 Rachel Smalley: “…heartbreak all over NSW as Queensland wins the deciding State of Origin!”
    No. 17 Jay Carney: ““He is not a human rights activist, he is not a dissident.”
    No. 16 Barack Obama: “I wish Muslims across America & around the world a month blessed with the joys of family, peace & understanding.”

    Open mike 11/07/2013

    No.15 John Key: “They know this is an issue of national security…”
    No. 14 Charles Saatchi: “I abhor violence of any kind against women…”

    No. 13 Toyota New Zealand: “The more Kiwis that lean, the more motivated our ETNZ crew will be to win.”

    No. 12 Pem Bird: “We’re there to do the business of advancing our people.”

    No.11 Whenua Patuwai: “They’re my brothers and to see one of them goes [sic]—it’s tough.”

    No. 10 [REMOVED]


    No. 8 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”

No. 7 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”

No. 6 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
    No.5 Dr. Rodney Syme: “If you want good, open, honest practice, you have to make it transparent.”

    No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”

No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”

No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”

No. 1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”

  8. Morrissey 8

    Ignoring the elephant in the Room
    Radio NZ National, Sunday 28 July 2013

    In a lightweight interview this morning, Chris Laidlaw chuckled that the 8-7 loss in the World Cup final to Craig Joubert’s All Blacks had “bizarrely improved the relationship” between France and New Zealand. Anyone who follows French rugby, and has charted the immense public anger and cynicism following that disgrace, knows that the reality is exactly the opposite. I emailed Chris Laidlaw on behalf of all sports fans….

    Dear Chris,
    In your interview with outgoing French ambassador Francis Etienne, you broached the subject of the farcical 2011 World Cup final. You neglected, perhaps deliberately, to even mention the controversy that still rages in France over the failure (if that is the correct word) of the referee to penalize the systematic, repeated, blatant fouling by the home team. Obviously, the ambassador, with his évasif diplomatique, was never going to bring up such a vexatious topic, but listeners who care about rugby football will have been disappointed that you did not.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • Te Reo Putake 8.1

      Weird, Moz. Given that most of France doesn’t give a toss about egg chasing, I reckon you’ll be completely unable to back up your claim about a raging controversy. Not that you’re wrong about the AB’s violent cheating; McCaw’s knee in the back of a prone french forward late in the game was sickening.

      • bad12 8.1.1

        It is tho after-all ‘thugby’, for every incidence of overt unnecessary violence inflicted on the French by McCaw and others, in slow motion the tape of the game will show a French player dishing out the same,

        The game is overtly violent and every weekend up and down the country ‘players’ get away with behavior which if committed elsewhere would likely result in them being locked up,

        The ‘black eyes’ walking off the field from last nights Chiefs/Crusaders during and after the match are testament to the games violent nature, i don’t think i watch the game to witness such violence but watch i do,(so perhaps i am complicit)…

        • Morrissey

          in slow motion the tape of the game will show a French player dishing out the same,

          Yes it will. French football is notorious for its brutality. The issue though, is the failure of the referee to do his job.

          • bad12

            ‘the Ref’ tho has 30 players all moving in fast motion to watch, perhaps the ref genuinely missed the ‘piece of thugby’ you cite McCaw for, hell i miss a lot of it from the birds eye perspective of TV viewing and it’s only slow motion replay’s which show the ‘dirt’ going in and even then much of that is invisible in the ruck and maul situation,

            while on the subject, a hat-tip to the Chiefs for their semi-final win over the Crusaders,(just)…

      • Morrissey 8.1.2

        Weird, Moz. Given that most of France doesn’t give a toss about egg chasing,

        You’ve said some stupid and dishonest things on this mostly excellent forum, but without a doubt that is the st000pidest. Rugby is immensely popular in France; you know that of course.

        And of course the issue wasn’t the violence of McCaw, it was (and is) the outrageously partial display of the non-referee.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Merde! Rugby is barely in the top ten sports list in France, Moz. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your delusions, but it’s only popular in the south, and even there, it’s way behind football, cycling and the rest. No need for an apology for calling me dishonest, I’m hardened to the dismal levels of accuracy associated with your claims.

          • Morrissey

            Rugby is the most popular spectator sport in France. True, it’s playing strength and its most fanatical following is in the southwest, but it’s immensely popular all over. You don’t know anything about French sport, just as you don’t know anything about New Zealand, as indicated by your ignorant insistence on calling soccer “football”.

            I am amused by your foolish (and continual) attempts to impugn my integrity; especially ironic given your formal warning from L Prent after you had, moronically, called another poster a “thief”.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Cite needed for the spectator sport claim. Sounds like utter bollocks, given how popular football is there. Anything to back it up?

              When was this warning from Lprent? I don’t recall it.

              edit: found the ‘warning’. Clockie gave the context in the next comment, so no probs. I used the term accurately.

              • Te Reo Putake

                I’ve done some research for ya Moz. As usual you’re wrong. Here’s an article optimistic about rugby in France, but far more realistic than you:


                “But rugby may have surged at soccer’s expense. Attendance figures for the recently-ended pro rugby regular season show an 11% boost over the previous year, contrasting soccer’s nearly 4% slump. Though the average 19,860 fans at Ligue 1 soccer games is still considerably higher than the 13,402 average for rugby’s Top 14, rugger is fast closing the gap — over the past six years, soccer stadiums have lost a total of 10% of fans, while rugby’s gate has more than doubled. The tables are slowly turning in TV Land too: though the 1.7 million viewers average of soccer matches on pay station Canal Plus far out-guns 700,000 for the Top 14, rugby’s offensive has gained ground there, too.”

                btw, the most popular rugby club in France, Toulouse, still gets smaller crowds for its biggest games than the average gate for the regular Ligue 1 matches of Toulouse FC at the ground they share, the Stadium Municipal.

                ps the game is called football in NZ, hence the national administration is named NZ Football. Do try and keep up.

                • Morrissey

                  ps the game is called football in NZ, hence the national administration is named NZ Football.</i.

                  Trouble is, "football" means rugby football in New Zealand. Soccer NZ changed its name in response to a directive from John "Possumhead" O'Neill, who had just been appointed to the position of CEO of Soccer Australia after being fired from his ARU job.

    • Northshoreguynz 8.2

      I wondered how long Mo’s obsession with that game would take to surface here. Actually longer than I thought.

      • Morrissey 8.2.1

        Actually, northshoreguynz, I have commented on this game many times on this excellent forum. here are half a dozen for you, from most recent right back to November 2011…

        1.) Dismaying hypocrisy: A not so smart Ted talks….

        Open mike 23/05/2013

        2.) Comedy, chivalry and one mouth-breathing cretin: Twenty minutes of Radio Live (Highlights)…

        Open mike 06/05/2013

        3.) “Now if only we could GUARANTEE the victory by installing Craig Joubert as (non-) umpire for the day…”

        Open mike 26/03/2013

        4.) “Mental skills” coach Gilbert Enoka disappointing on radio this morning…

        Open mike 13/04/2012

        5.) Will Kathryn Ryan risk upsetting Richie McCaw?…

        Open mike 15/12/2011

        6.) Phil Goff almost broke the national conspiracy of silence tonight…

        Open mike 18/11/2011

  9. Sable 9

    Anyone interested in an American take human rights abuses might be interested in this site:


  10. Draco T Bastard 11

    The Charitable-Industrial Complex

    As more lives and communities are destroyed by the system that creates vast amounts of wealth for the few, the more heroic it sounds to “give back.” It’s what I would call “conscience laundering” — feeling better about accumulating more than any one person could possibly need to live on by sprinkling a little around as an act of charity.

    But this just keeps the existing structure of inequality in place. The rich sleep better at night, while others get just enough to keep the pot from boiling over. Nearly every time someone feels better by doing good, on the other side of the world (or street), someone else is further locked into a system that will not allow the true flourishing of his or her nature or the opportunity to live a joyful and fulfilled life.

    Couldn’t have said it better. It’s the entire system that needs changing.

  11. Herodotus (CV Supporter) 13

    I notice the John Keys wealth has been maintained at $50m since he entered politics.
    Given the increase in property values and equity markets recently is there some conspiracy to ensure that Key s not seen to have profited over his time in politics, more so since he has been PM. I cannot see how the NBR can continue to record this $50m value.
    His properties in Parnell and Omaha in themselves must have appreciated a few $m in their own. then there are is shares and options from his banking days

    • srylands 13.1

      Why do you care?

      • Herodotus (CV Supporter) 13.1.1

        Accuracy of reporting, otherwise why report on such matters or are you comfortable with the media not being thorough in what it reports??

        • srylands

          I’m questioning why it is news worthy

          • muzza

            You’re new around here eh?

            The PM is pathological and lies on command, even seems to enjoy the moments.

            His back story is a lie, why is that, NOT news worthy!

          • North

            It’s newsworthy………ShonKey Python being richer than he was at the outset……..(if that’s the case – I don’t know – neither do any of you ShonKey Python suckers)………because it would point up the cargo cult as a scam sold by the already very rich…….while the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

            Taihoa………….that wasn’t the deal .

            Easy to fix this confusion ShonKey Python. GCSB yourself…….then publish it, you honest, honest man.

            • Alanz

              John Key needs to come clean with his secret stash – “nothing to fear, nothing to hide”.

    • muzza 13.2

      The figure of $50m was chosen as part of the back story, and is utter nonsense, he was worth more then, and will be worth much more, now!

      Agree though, the number 50 is a joke, as if its not changed in the past 5-6 years.

      The numbers are always low, and meaningless anyway!

    • jaymam 13.3

      According to the Auckland City rates database, the Parnell property with its huge house and tennis court and swimming pool has a current capital value of $2.45 million, not $6.82 million. Check it for yourself. The adjoining properties are apparently valued at nothing, hence the rates for them are also nothing.

      It’s just lovely the way anyone can look up these things. Thank you GCSB!

  12. Colonial Viper 14

    ‘Chris Hedges: ‘Blue collar working class was decimated while liberal elites focussed on issues of gender and multiculturalism’

    – Liberal elites act as a safety valve to address a few underclass and working class concerns, while ensuring that the status quo framework continues.

    – Electoral politics is only a tiny part of what needs to be done; building mass movements is what is needed.

    – Surveillance state of fear arrayed against any possible dissent and organisation.

    NB Chris Hedges was New York Times Middle East bureau head, and was a correspondent covering communist Eastern Europe.

  13. muzza 17

    Anyone got a link to BliPs posts created with the links to the articles outlining all the lies told by John Key?


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