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Open mike 28/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:56 am, July 28th, 2014 - 282 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

282 comments on “Open mike 28/07/2014 ”

  1. Gosman 1

    What was the position of the various political parties in the polls 6 weeks out from the 2008 and 2011 elections?

    • mac1 1.1

      Go back to bed, Gossie. You’re bad enough on a Sunday night in England let alone early on a Monday morning.

    • Paul 1.2


    • mickysavage 1.3

      The comparable Colmar Brunton poll had National at 56%, 4% ahead of where it is in the latest poll.

      • phillip ure 1.3.1

        i think the media – who seem to be wetting their pants in unison over the idea of a king key..ruling alone like a despot of yore..

        ..when there is that four-points below last time fact staring them in the face..

        ..(not to mention no friends who aren’t on life-support….)

        ..couldn’t be more proof than what’s needed that the media..in the main..

        ..have both the analytical skills and short-term memories of guppies…

        • Gosman

          How is the no friends issue any different ot 2008 or 2011?

          • McFlock

            Exactly, because ACT and the Maori Party are just as popular now as they were in 2008… /sarc

          • Clemgeopin

            Remarkably, ACT and HAIRDO have been very consistently steady at about naught or thereabouts!

        • Clemgeopin

          “..(not to mention no friends who aren’t on life-support….)…”

          Or heading into jail or oblivion !

          Or their chief hash-honcho to Hawaii-5’O in USA!

      • Tiger Mountain 1.3.2

        Two things;
        • 1. the polling industry is going to be looking rather sick if this period of tory ‘hyper polling’ is well out from the actual results
        • 2. help get people enrolled and assist them to vote early from 3-20 Sept. to make sure the polling industry looks sick! You can still enrol people up to the 19th, but don’t wait, do it today.


        • Weepus beard

          Number one reason low socio-economic groups don’t vote:

          It’s too hard to enrol.

          • Tiger Mountain

            There is a sad list of reasons for non enrolment including…
            • unawareness of the non printed roll for people worried about debt collectors, ex’s, govt. depts etc.
            • overcrowded ‘non addresses’–cars & garages, lapsed PO boxes
            • transience
            • general alienation and non compliance

            These are difficult to overcome with an outdated, and under resourced on purpose it seems, electoral commission approach. No rock is left unturned to track down say traffic fine defaulters but every effort is spared in encouraging non enrollees.

            Thats why the ‘outreach’ is happening with unions in particular. Once enrolled people will be contacted as voting time nears.

            • Weepus beard

              Excellent points. Those four bullet points feature high in low socio-economic groups. Why would people make themselves visible when they are concerned about the repercussions of becoming visible?

              Who can access the roll, btw?

          • Mike

            If you want to win the lower socio economic groups, you need to appeal to them. Free food, free gifts, people to walk them through the process. It depends upon whether you want to win or not.

      • Enough is Enough 1.3.3

        Where were the other parties tracking though? I am struggling to find the data.

        • Tracey

          Goto swordfish site

          • swordfish

            Cheers, Tracey.

            Actually, I’m working on a post on this very topic as we speak.

            I’ve taken the average % support of the last 10 polls (for all of the parties and blocs) and I’m comparing them with the average for 10 consecutive polls at the same point in 2008 and 2011.

            I won’t go into detail here but suffice to say:
            – Labour’s average is slightly down on 2011 and wayyyyyyyy down on their 2008 average.
            – BUT the Greens are well up on both their 2008 and 2011 average, as are both NZ First and the minor party of the Left (Jim Anderton’s Progressives in 08, the fledgling Mana Party in 11, IMP in 14). Together, their much-improved support share more than compensates for Labour’s decline.
            – National and the Right Bloc = well down on 2011 and about equal with 08
            – The upshot of it all: This election is looking much more like 2008 than 2011 (and yet the MSM would you believe it’s far, far worse than 11)
            – Proviso: Assumes, of course, that Nats and the Right will suffer the same sort of nose-dive that they experienced in both 08 and 11. Tory tr*lls would say “No, they were abberations”, I (and probably Puddleglum and possibly Rob Salmond) would tend toward reluctantly disagreeing with our fine Tory chums.

            • Gosman

              The trouble with 2008 for ther left is that it was obvious there was a desire to supplant Labour as the main party in government. There is currently not that for the left bloc as a whole.

      • Gosman 1.3.4

        2008 around the same time before the election would be a more interesting comparison I would suggest. I have found an interesting article on Wikipedia about this.


        National had around the same level of support they are getting now with Labour and the Greens trending a bit higher. Even NZ First was getting around the same level of support that they are getting now.

        • swordfish

          Kind of snap, Gossie, in that we both agree it’s looking much more 08 than 11.

          But Labour were doing far better in 08 than now. And Greens were doing far worse.

          Overall, whichever way you look at it – gap between National and Lab+Green / gap between Right Bloc and Left Bloc / gap between Right Bloc and Opposition Bloc (Left + Winston) – it’s looking remarkably similar to 2008. (except, of course, Labour down and – crucial, this – NZ First probably going to top 5%).

          • Gosman

            Individually yes but collectively about the same. It raises a question in my mind though about why the left bloc is not bigger as a whole. 6 years of a National led government should have made the electorate at least more interested in alternatives yet instead we have the same group of left wing supporters seemingly just switching support from Labour to the Greens and not being able to cut in to National party territory or even bring in large numbers of left leaning non-voters..

          • Tracey

            Its snap cos he read your post before writing his…

    • Seti 1.4

      Two months out from the election in 2011 Roy Morgan had the closest poll to the actual result (although their NZ First number was way out) –

      Roy Morgan 12-25 Sep, 2011-
      National: 51 (47.3 Election night)
      Labour: 30.5 (27.5)
      Green: 11.5 (11.1)
      Act: 1.5 (1.1)
      Maori: 2.5 (1.4)
      UF: 0.5 (0.6)
      NZ First: 1 (6.59)
      Conservative: 0 (2.65)

      Roy Morgan also had the closest poll to actual result two months out from the 2008 election –
      National: 47.5 (44.9)
      Labour 36.5 (34)
      NZ First: 5 (4.1)
      Maori: 1.5 (2.4)
      Green: 6.5 (6.7)
      Act: 1.5 (3.7)
      UF: 0.5 (0.9)
      Progressive: 0 (0.9)

      The most recent Roy Morgan, 30 Jun-13 Jul 2014 –
      National: 51
      Labour: 23.5
      Green: 15
      NZ First: 6
      Maori: 1
      Act: 0.5
      UF: 0.5
      Conservative: 1
      IMP: 1.5

    • Clemgeopin 1.5

      Poll Date National Labour Green ACT Māori Progressive United Future NZ First Mana Conservative

      News Colmar Brunton[70] 2 October 2011 56 29 9 1.3 1.1 0.0 1.9 0.6

      One News Colmar Brunton[80] 3 November 2011 56 30 9 0.9 1.3 0.1 2.2 0.3

      One News Colmar Brunton[84] 10 November 2011 54 28 9 1.5 2.1 0.8 2.9 0.2 0.5

      One News Colmar Brunton[87] 17 November 2011 51 26 13 1.6 1.6 0.3 2.2 1.3 1.4

      One News Colmar Brunton[92] 24 November 2011 50 28 10 1.7 2.0 0.1 4.2 1.0 2.4

      2011 election result[97] 26 November 2011 47.31 27.48 11.06 1.07 1.43 –[note c] 0.60 6.59 1.08 2.65

      Poll Date National Labour Green ACT Māori Progressive United Future NZ First Mana Conservative


      On One News-Colmar Brunton, 21 August 2011, 3 months to election, Key=57%, Goff= 8%
      On One News-Colmar Brunton, 3 Novembr 2011, 3 weeks to election, Key=56 %, Goff=12%

      Election was on 26 Nov, where Nats just scraped through with Banks and with 1 seat (Dunne) majority.

      You can get more details here:

    • Rodel 1.6

      ??? Zzzzzzzz
      ??? Zzzzzzzzzz
      ?????? Zzzzzzzz ????

      • Gosman 1.6.1

        Were you attempting to make a point with this post?

        • blue leopard

          I thought Rodel’s point was clear 🙂

          • Gosman

            Care to expand on what he meant then?

            • blue leopard

              Your comment was:
              a. that of someone who has fallen asleep and
              b. of the the type that falls into the same-old-same-old-boring-enough-to-send-one-to-sleep category.

              …of course Rodel put it much more succinctly 🙂

            • McFlock

              are you thick as well as monotonous, or are you monotonous because you are thick?

  2. Paul 2

    In between the propaganda pumped out by the lamestream corporate media about rock star economies et al, just occasionally there is a glimpse through to how tough life really is in NZ.

    This one also demonstrates how disgraceful insurance companies are.

  3. Belladonna 3

    I suspect there will be an increase in suicide rates in Christchurch. What is going on down there is unbelievable. Apart from John Campbell the media are practically ignoring Christchurch. Let’s hope the Cantabs play a huge part in voting this government out. Cant imagine they would be voting for the right.

    • there is one fact that still blows my mind..

      (..and one that ..to me..shows that the rebuild of christchurch has turned into a milking-operation..milking for as long as those currently with their snouts in the trough can get away with..)

      ..that ‘fact’ is that since the first big earthquake in christchurch..

      ..china has used/poured more concrete than america used in the whole of the twentieth century..

      ..let that fact sink in..then ask yrslf again..

      ..why are people in christchurch still shivering in broken/unrepaired homes..?

      ..all these years later..and with no end to their miseries in sight..?

      ..and christchurch central looking like a just-started building-site…

      ..what degree of incompetent-clowns are running this clusterfuck..?

      • Lanthanide 3.1.1

        Wow, really? China has used lots of concrete, therefore Christchurch should be rebuilt by now?

        The mind boggles.

      • Mike 3.1.2

        Only when New Zealand has fully embraced communism will we make repairing the houses of the working class our priority. “Insurers” and their lackeys will be invited to pick our fields. There they will learn the value of hard work.

        Comrade Key even now forges unbreakable bonds with Big Brother China. How fortunate we are to have such a benevolent nation willing to guide us through the process of becoming a Communist nation!

        Long Live the International!!

    • McFlock 3.2

      possibly, but any increase might well be hidden in displaced persons, i.e. people who lost their chch home and “emigrated” to Wellington or something. They’d turn up in different regional stats.

      this article from last year suggests that there was a spike in 2012, but within previous small-numbers variance. On the flipside, it depends on what was going on with the local population (how many had relocated, whether the influx of workers had changed the demographic profile, and so on): a decrease in population might make the spike a significant change.

      So short answer “yes, with an if”, long answer “no, with a but”. Real answer “who the fuck knows”.

  4. karol 4

    1000 Kiwi kids being sponsored by charity – like the sponsorship for people in very poor countries.

    • Tracey 4.1

      Someone will say “only 1000? We are clearly doing well.”

    • Rosie 4.2

      It’s a deeply shameful thing that we have dollar a day kids in NZ, or 50 cents a day to be more precise. What an insecure and cold world we have created for kids growing up in NZ these days.

      When I hear people who have plenty of money complaining about people who don’t and making assumptions as to why they don’t, I ask them, if this problem wasn’t serious and was easily solved by your suggestions (give up fags n booze!) do you really think we would need dollar a day kids in NZ? Usually they don’t know that we now have child sponsorship programmes to match programmes they consider relevant only to “third world” nations.

      As well as Variety we have Kids Can


      Absolute respect to the Congolese family in the article. The trauma they have experienced is beyond imagining.

      • bad12 4.2.1

        Indeed Rosie, i have been meaning at some time to comment on the Kids Can ads i have recently seen on my Tee Vee,

        At first i thought it was the usual ask for 50 cents a day to support a child in Africa, unfortunately not, Kids Can are asking for support for Kiwi Kids,

        The worst aspects of third world economics have definitely become well established here in New Zealand, the poverty i would suggest didn’t arrive as luggage, successive Governments have to carry that can of shame as their actions/inactions have been solely responsible…

  5. i think david cunnliffe should promise to open questiontime to public-questions..


    ( i present that as an idea that would catch the interest of both the media and the public..to my mind..

    ..and basically as a ‘good-idea’…)

  6. Ffloyd 6

    Does anybody know if Labour will be doing anything about the demolition of Agresearch? Particularly Ruakura?

  7. karol 7

    The Nats blame its democratic processes for its low proportion of female list candidates – as if women are just less capable…. or is it that capable women are just not impressed with the Nats’ politics?

    Or maybe it just shows the biases of Nats doing the selection of candidates?

    Given the masculine dominance of the senior position in the Nat caucus, and the anti-women policies – especially the callous bashing of single mothers on benefits – the low proportion of female list candidates is not really surprising.

    • i thought that one deserved a special p.r/spin-award..

      ..that crediting of their ‘democratic-processes’..

      ..for their woeful numbers of women on their party list..


      ..(should key/national re-brand..?…as ‘the mens’-party’..?..

      ..and just be done with it..?..)

      • Mike 7.1.1

        Women should hardly be forced to sully themselves with the grotesque machinations of modern politics. Never should they have to endure long, drawn out arguments, nor stoop to bother themselves with the lesser task of governing the country.

    • Tracey 7.2

      Nats say their list proves that women are just not as good as men.

    • Bill 7.3

      Course it could be argued, in a society where women are forever getting that systemic grease slathered on ladder rungs, that fewer of them are going to attain a position that would fit with being selected for the party that best reflects said patriarchal society.

      On that front, I don’t think affording compensatory traction is any solution. Eventually, if we want an end to all this nonsense, people are going to have to pull or push all the ladders over.

  8. Te Reo Putake 8

    Key is apparently saying McCully will be standing in East Coast Bays. Hopefully that means they are overestimating their actual support (as opposed to the polls) and writing Colin Craycray off.

    • i wouldn’t get too excited..

      ..they still have time to pull mccully..before the election..

      ..should they choose..

      ..so it’s more a ‘haven’t decided yet’..

      • Tiger Mountain 8.1.1

        “squiggle & rort” opportunity should cease after the Electoral Commission’s forms and ballots print date. Even if McCully is pulled at last minute he will appear on the ballot paper.

      • phillip ure 8.1.2

        craig now may just have to hope there are 5% of the population..who like him..

        ..believe the moon-landing was shot on a soundstage..just outside of phoenix arizona..

        ..and that those fellow-deniers will come out on the day and vote for him..

        ..maybe..with any natty-deal appearing dead..maybe craig should now focus his campaign more on that loony end of town..in search of his 5%..

        ..billboards with pics of col..

        with the legend:..’chem-trails..?..what’s that all about..?..elect me..and i’ll find out..!..vote conservative..!’..

        or:..’the moon-landing..?..yeah right..!..i wasn’t there..were you..?..’..vote conservative!’..

        (n.b..that latter statement is no flight of fancy on my part..it was actually made by craig..while defending his moon-landing denying..the man is fucken ‘barking’..)

        or:..’the tooth-fairy..where did it go..?’..let col look for it..!..vote conservative..!

        or..’elvis..is he really dead..?’..let col find him..!..vote conservative..!

    • Tracey 8.2

      That is because they know they are getting epsom for act and ohariu for dunne. See how high up the list goldsmith is, and the invisible nat candidate from ohariu. They dont need colin and his bag of something… The cup of tea has been and gone.

  9. bad12 9

    Pictured in yesterday’s Granny Herald online, John Banks, the criminal, ‘allegedly’ driving His car at 100k an hour down the Auckland motorway while using His cellphone,

    Why isn’t this man,(snigger),obviously showing every sign of being a danger to the public and a serial offender, under constant police surveillance…

    • Tracey 9.1

      Photographed by someone connected to someone in Labour… Was the photographer taking a photo while driving at speed? I am no Banks fan but found the story churlish and a waste of time

      • karol 9.1.1

        I thought the photographer was a passenger – Banks could have been speeding past.

        Edit – the article doesn’t say whether or not the photographer was in a car.

        • Tracey

          Well, we assume they were a passenger dont we, i didnt think the article stated BUT of all things to highlight?

          • phillip ure

            banks doesn’t have to worry..

            ..even if found guilty..he wd get a discharge without conviction..

            ..’cos he has ‘connections’..

        • alwyn

          That photograph, unless it has been loaded as a mirror image, looks as if Banks was a passenger in the car and the person taking the photo was on the drivers side.
          Banks appears, from the shadow on his body to be on the LEFT hand side of the car.
          The photographer appears to be on the RIGHT hand side. He could be, conceivably, be in the back seat of course.
          The last time I looked the steering wheel in my car was on the right.
          Looks like an own goal by a Labour party stooge to me. The person taking the photo looks to be lying.

          • Te Reo Putake

            Yeah, nice try. Your attempt to excuse the criminal John Banks would be a teeny weeny bit more believable if there was an actual alternative driver to be seen. Look at the steering wheel … wheeee, no hands!

            • alwyn

              Can you see the bottom of the wheel? I certainly can’t. I can only see the top half in that photo and it is quite normal to drive a car with one’s hands on the bottom half of the wheel you know.
              Alternatively can you see either of John Banks’ hands? By your logic if one can’t see them they don’t exist. TRP obviously thinks that John doesn’t have any hands.
              He must have been a very knowledgeable car enthusiast by the way. I’m prepared to believe he could read the back f the car when he caught up so he could tell it was a C63 AMG model Merc but you would have to be very good to be able to tell it was a 2011 model. Me-thinks he has been obsessed with Banks and follows his life story very closely to know he owns a 2011 model. Could we have a John Banks stalker on the loose?

              • Te Reo Putake

                Yeah, you’re right. It is quite normal to for the driver to have their hands on the bottom of the steering wheel. If they’re a fucken idiot. Still, to back up your story, John Banks has just released a press statement denying he was the driver and, oh, wait a minute … no, no he hasn’t. My mistake.

      • Te Reo Putake 9.1.2

        “Spurdle was a passenger when he took the photo of Banks, who was driving a Mercedes AMG C63 2011 model.”


      • Naki man 9.1.3

        I couldn’t agree more, no surprise that it was the Herald.

      • bad12 9.1.4

        A sitting MP breaks the law, albeit a minor traffic one in terms of penalties applied and you see this as a waste of time and churlish Tracey,???

        SO, have you perhaps a guide you would care to publish with regards to those who govern us that prescribes what criminal acts should or should not be prosecuted when committed by a Member of the Parliament,

        (PS, the pic was taken by a passenger in the car opposite)…

        • Tracey

          Perhaps you missed his resignation from parliament. He is not a sitting MP.

          I wont publish a guide, I just dont agree with you and the SST ranking of this issue amongst those I consider are hurting kiwis today.

          • bad12

            Lolz indeed, i had Totally forgotten Banks having fallen on His toothbrush, However, if the link below is to be believed,(i thought the Law outlawing cellphone use was brought into force in 2004),Banks as an MP was directly involved in voting in this particular Legislation which He was pictured (allegedly) ignoring,


            The fact is IF what is alleged is found to be fact it would show that Banks is a serial offender using mobile phones in a dangerous manner with callous disregard for the safety of others and that previous leniency at sentencing has not altered Banks’s behavior…

      • Weepus beard 9.1.5

        It does re-enforce the public’s perception that Banks is/was a personage of public importance who feels unbound by the laws of the land.

        Now, I reckon just about everyone here would have used a cellphone while driving in the last 18 months, or not come to a complete stop at a stop sign, or ducked into a bus lane when we shouldn’t have (all of which carry the same penalty), but we are not/were not personages of public importance.

        When we do it, it’s not a story, but when he does it, it is.

        • bad12

          Nope, i plead not guilty, i have never, while the driver of a vehicle used a mobile phone while the vehicle is in motion,

          In fact, unless i know that the phone will be necessary to use as a tool when i get to my destination it stays at home,

          i do not see anything of such importance occurring in the time it takes to get from A to B that necessitates carrying such a tracking device on my person at the times i am on the roam…

          • Weepus beard

            And you set a fine example. I tend to lose work if I don’t answer, or call back asap at least (I do pull over to do this of course). Food on the table, etc.

            • Rosie

              So get yourself a hands free set Weepu’s beard. There’ll be no food on the table if you end up dead because you decide to take a call changing lanes at 100kph on the motorway. Think about it.

          • idlegus

            absolutely! & stopping at a stop sign takes 1 or seconds, whats the freekin’ rush.

        • Rosie

          “Now, I reckon just about everyone here would have used a cellphone while driving in the last 18 months……….”

          Hell no Weepus beard! Not using your cell phone while driving is law for good reason. It is highly distracting and very dangerous. People have lost their lives because of stupid irresponsible fuckers using their phones, texting or talking.

          No matter who does it IS important, whether it’s Banks or you. Anyone can take another’s life by being an idiot and using their phone while driving.

          Why do we have this careless “road rules are made to be broken” attitude in our country? Like our approach to H&S in the workplace, we sure do have some serious “she’ll be right” perceptions to correct.


      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.6

        Was the photographer taking a photo while driving at speed?

        He was a passenger in the car in the other car.

        • Tracey

          Apologies. I thought i had read the article in SST. I hadnt cos they didnt carry it.

  10. fender 10

    If we want iphones and ipads Nick Smith says we must have poorer water quality.

    “Association of Freshwater Anglers president David Haynes, who was at the meeting, said Dr Smith was bullying the Fish and Game councillors in a clear attempt to stop it carrying out its statutory role to advocate for water quality.”

    “He said the minister indicated he wanted to “tweak” Fish and Game because its advocacy for clean rivers was standing in the way of economic growth.”

  11. anker 11


    I still think it is worth collecting signatures for this. Please sign and pass on if you havent already.

    Currently signatures around 4221 (approx).

    • have you read don quixote..?..there..anker..?

    • Chooky 11.2

      I can never think of Mike Hoskings apart from being the “fruit and vege man”…he used to report early morning on the quality and quantity of fruit and veges in the market…He was very good!…i was almost persuaded to eat more fruit and veges

      i think he is a turnip head with rodent teeth

      • Hami Shearlie 11.2.1

        Turnip Head with rodent teeth – Hmm, that sounds like Worzel Gummidge too!

  12. vto 12

    Is New Zealand at war at the moment?

    there are muslims being called from New Zealand to fight their holy war
    there are jews being called from New Zealand to fight their jihad

    Our government permits one of these types to be killed by the US government. So, are we at war? It feels as close as one can get before a declaration.

    • we have been ‘at war’ since clark/goff signed us up for the invasion/occupation of afghanistan..

      ..we are eager spear-carriers in americas’ long-war…

      (this has long been our role/place in the world..first for britain..and now for america..)

      ..and we are now a vassal-state of america..(as we were once a vassal-state for britain..until they told us to just piss-off!..(what world wars sacrifices..?..)

      ..and as the snowden/greenwald/dotcom data/secrets-drop will clearly show..

      ..that is how they view/treat us..

      ..any ideas of our sovereignty as a nation are just a joke..to america..

      ..and we need to take our country back..

      • The Al1en 12.1.1

        “we have been ‘at war’ since clark/goff signed us up for the invasion/occupation of afghanistan..”

        Citation required.

        • phillip ure

          brain required..

          (mind-achingly-stupid-retort-award shortlist..?..)

          ..you clearly can’t walk and chew gum at the same time..

          (..need a ‘citation’ for that..?..)

          • The Al1en

            Not even a link for that statement, Philip?
            If you can’t find a parliamentary edict, “We have been at war” should still have made the headlines somewhere.

            Emotional and sloppy PU.


            • phillip ure

              the sun comes up 2morrow..

              ..need a fucken citation for that..?

              ..and apologies for my slip there..

              ..for engaging..

              ..back on just-ignore! ya go..!

              • The Al1en

                “.back on just-ignore! ya go..!”

                The tool of the beaten.

                “need a fucken citation for that..?”

                That NZ is at war or has had war declared upon it, most definitely.
                If you can’t provide one, no worries, we’ll just call it a urism from now on.

              • bad12

                The end of Phillips latest could just as easily be read as: ”Back into ignorance He goes”…

        • Chooky

          …at least Helen Clark kept New Zealand out of the false trumped up war against Iraq and gave short shift to the Israelis who tried to steal the passports of dead New Zealand children…i think she made enemies for these actions

    • Gosman 12.2

      Following your logic we “allowed” Hamas to kill the New Zealander that was fighting with the Israeli military in Gaza.

    • Mike 12.3

      The inter-tribal fighting of semites should hardly concern us. The children of Isaac and Ishmael need to sort out their issues. They seem to have problems with Loving their Neighbour.

      Let them go and fight. The military experience they gain overseas will be vital to the improvement of our forces back home, if they return.

      Of course, those returning home, harbouring desires of insurrection against our legally appointed government ought to face the scaffold or the firing squad.

  13. Bearded Git 13

    Bryce Johnson Chief Executive of Fish and Game has just said on Nine to Noon that Nick Smith’s attack on Fish and Game has done irreparable damage to the relationship between F and G and the minister.

    I loved the tweet at the end of Morning Report that said something like “I’m going to tell all my friends to throw away their fishing rods and buy tablets and laptops so they can have some real fun”*

    *This was in reference to Smith saying at a recent F and G meeting he was invited to that F and G’s stance on supporting clean lakes and rivers was damaging economic growth

    The interviews of F and G people on Morning Report before 8am and then Smith in poor effort at damage control after 8am well worth a listen.

    • vto 13.1

      Typical of National Party people – all about the money and “winning”. It doesn’t matter if you have to lie and cheat, or shit in the rivers, just as long as you “win”

      What a loser Nick Smith is.

      • and yep – lets play on laptops and iphones rather than swim and fish in rivers. Nick Smith describes his view of life.

      He has in fact inadvertently just laid out a catch-phrase in the war on farming greed. “What do you want for your children? Laptops and iphones, or swimming and fishing in rivers? This is the choice Nick Smith gives you”

      He has made the issue as clear as it can be

      • Bearded Git 13.1.1

        +1 vto. Cunliffe should be seen fishing ASAP

        • Mainlander

          Comment of the day for me, just make sure hes trout fishing, those snappers are perilous to political careers

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            I can see why Smith packed such an insincere howly-bag over it. His bullying arrogance is very damaging to the National vote among the outdoorsy types. I expect they’ll move more to the Greens than Labour.

        • Murray Olsen

          I have seen a photo of him with a salmon he caught when his father died, so he does know how to catch fish.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.2

        “What do you want for your children? Laptops and iphones, or swimming and fishing in rivers? This is the choice Nick Smith gives you”

        That’s the choice that National gives you and along with that ‘choice’ comes the elimination of life on Earth one as well.

        National: Fucking over NZ so that a few people can get a lot of money – until we’ve destroyed all life on Earth.

      • Mike 13.1.3

        The Children of Tomorrow will receive their orders on iPads and Tablets.

        These orders will of course include the cleaning of our rivers, the repopulating of our fish, and the reporting to the Authorities of the Environmental Despoilers that would damage the Green Earth God gave us. The same despoilers that run amok at this very moment, comrades.

        Fear not, the future is bright.

    • Bearded Git 13.2

      ….and the interview with Bryce Johnson on Nine to Noon at about 9.08am is priceless and a must listen.

  14. philj 14

    Nick Smith told me in a public meeting on transport issues that cyclists don’t get considered in policy as they don’t pay road user tax! Stand up comedy awaits you Nick.

  15. greywarbler 15

    Some things hotting up this morning. On Radionz Dr Nick Smith and Fish and Game. What a mendacious character Nick Smith is. Threatening, bullying, crowing about being responsible for water for six years and working hard, which raises the question why is it still so bad. Warning Fish and Game to be smarter themselves and stick to fresh water advocacy and not say anything about causes of pollution, ie dairy. Being careful with words, not mentioning pollution. F&G have put up billboards about water quality.

    The government doesn’t like any entity that it funds to do any advocacy, it is out for social causes now the environmental ones are being told how to do their job set under legislation. Nick Smith mentioned that he was likely to tweak the legislation under which F&G operate, but says its about a number of matters such as the ability to get licences using technology etc. Observers at the meeting said it actually sounded like a threat to diminish F&Gs role and freedom to operate as at present and probably their funding.

    And Smith disagreed with that understanding. He denied that intention and quoted the authority of a ‘neutral’ civil servant who took notes on the meeting that differ from accusations about what he said. And he is going to sue the critics for misrepresenting him.

    Also this morning, scientists criticising the way that the government is trying to direct science in exactly the way that suits the sitting government’s interests. Which scientists say will be incredibly limiting on the range and options for them. No they are not says also slimy Joyce.

    And tourist drones introduced, offering free pics to tourists which it is stated will be a way of getting our lovely scenery to the golden masses overseas. And a good way of providing and spying options seducing people that they are great. And invasive they will be, because there is so much enthusiasm for them from business and people who love tech. They are going to be used extensively in agriculture as the robotised farm replaces our people-run, human populated major industry. Our laissez faire government won’t properly control them and limit them to surveying dangerous areas where robotised machinery comes into its own.

    And criticism of tech in schools, expensive additions for little cost-benefit.

    Life is never dull. Subtle ancient curse is ‘May you live in interesting times’.

    • Bearded Git 15.1

      “events dear boy events”.

      Smith’s perpetual greenwashing has been getting on my nerves and now he shows his true colours.

      If Labour and the Greens don’t get some votes out of Smith’s disaster I would be very surprised.

      Get that fishing rod out DC.

      • greywarbler 15.1.1

        @ Bearded Git 9.38
        I just remembered that Old Nick referred to his NACT government being ‘blue-green’. So you are wrong to say that he has been green-washing and he may sue you for that.
        The actual name of the shade is cyan which is used in cyanide and that is what NZ will receive if they allow NACTs back into government. (This assertion is entirely unsubstantiated and unchecked for fact, ie political.) e&oe /sarc

        Matthew Hooton saying how volatile Nick Smith and he has a PHd in geology or something which is to study rocks. Perhaps he should study his head! Then says that its okay to have pollution because that happens to all countries as they industrialise but then they get wealthy and can clean up!!!! Just about fell off my chair.

        First we haven’t industrialised? If we didn’t, haven’t it’s too late now the way that NACTs are running the country backwards to agricultural dependencey. (Can someone rewind that film before they have the next showing!) And we are never going to get wealthy, again because of how the country and its finances are run, so we can never clean up. Publicly we should have minimum taxes if the NACTs have their way and there will not be enough for reparations to the environment, and privately the wealthy will just shift their interest and money to a nicer environment, personally and pursely.

        Cunliffe’s incompetence and poor old Shearer never got a fair go and was polling better from Hooton. The Wormtongue.

        Mike Williams says that there is a risk for the government which can appear arrogant.
        And that goes for Nick Smith too.

        • Tracey

          The article about fudging numbers to get a surplus will raise the eyebrows of a fewxless than die hard right voters who vote national cos of how they are perceived to be handling the economy

      • ropata 15.1.2

        Severely pissed off when I heard it this morning. Scientists say one thing. Minister says the opposite. WTF

        Just another way for this anti-science mob to cut research grants and squeeze out pure science in favour of tax breaks for their mates

        And the Fish & Game stuff (see other thread)

  16. Bearded Git 16

    54 men and 21 women in the Nats list-not a good look. The Nats chairman argues that democracy meant there were so few women on the list. Female voters take note. See:


  17. Tiger Mountain 17

    the dirty filthy Herald runs a puff piece on a dead Israeli soldier because of his “Kiwi” links, well what about a story on thousands of dead, injured and de housed Palestinian civilians who also have links–to the HUMAN RACE?

    • Mike 17.1

      The same Palestinians that fed their children vile television programs and propaganda, stories of revenge and recapturing of a land lost.

      Side not with either of the Semitic tribes, friends. They will sort out their issues in time. The sons of Ishmael, the disparate lot that they are need to learn the value of unity. The Esteemed brothers of the Ummah even now gather their people, and purge the ranks of Wreckers and Obstructionists. If only we were as brave, as committed to the future of our people as they.

      The sons of Issac have abandoned their Torah, and the God that feeds them. Leave the re-education of the sons of Issac to ISIS. Any of you who know of the defiling of the Daughters of Israel – the scantily clad IDF photos, the “Dead Sea Salt” girls that infest our malls, will know some Sharia Law will do them good.

      We must save our energy for the repair of our own broken country and people.

      • The Al1en 17.1.1

        “Leave the re-education of the sons of Issac to ISIS. Any of you who know of the defiling of the Daughters of Israel – the scantily clad IDF photos, the “Dead Sea Salt” girls that infest our malls, will know some Sharia Law will do them good.”


  18. Bearded Git 18

    Very powerful stuff on Gaza here.

    • Chooky 18.1

      +100 Bearded Git

      Very powerful pictures here too….says it all …crimes against humanity!


      and an Israeli on the brink of burning her Passport


      • silverbullet 18.1.1

        I think Israel has the right to defend itself against rocket attacks and tunnels infiltrating its terrirotry. Hamas are no sweeties.

        It is unfortunate that there a civilian casualties but that is what occurs in urban battle fields and with the destabilising global population explosion and megapolises we are going to see a lot more of it.

        Meanwhile ISIS is literally CRUCIFYING prisoners of war or BEHEADING them and putting their heads on sticks or with a head in each hand and big toothy smiles for photos. Yet there is no Left march down Queen St expressing condemnation of these atrocities or burning ISIS flags or demanding the world do more to stop them.

        • Tom Jackson

          Whataboutery, bro.

          You’re defending the shelling of civilians, including children and apartheid. That makes you evil.

          • silverbullet

            Actually your defending the shelling of civilians , including children re: Hamas so guess that makes you evil according to your logic.

            • Tom Jackson

              I must have missed the bit where I did that in my post. Can you point it out?


              • silverbullet

                Are you the one who has been writing Cunliffes speeches? It would explain a lot.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Tom’s point stands. You lied about what he’d said, then you pretended your lie was true, then you acted all morally outraged. It’s transparent and tiresome and we get it a lot around here.

                  I doubt even the Israelis have sunk so low they’re prepared to use ISIL as some sort of ethical benchmark, but not you.

                  • silverbullet

                    Tom obviously doesn’t think Israel should move against Hamas to destroy their tunnels and rocket attacks. therefore he is defending the actions of Hamas, he certainly has taken the ample opportunity to condemn Hamas actions against Israel civilians.

                    Again ISIS is way more problematic but it seems the West can’t even face it.

                    • Murray Olsen

                      Off you go then, organise a march against ISIS. Every Hasbara troll from both sewers will no doubt join you. Before you demand that we do something, you really need to be doing something yourself. Moran.

        • Tracey

          And the israeli blockades… And the difficulty even in non war times ogf getting goods in and out of gaza cos of hold ups by the israelis.

          Leave a people with nothing left to lose and they dig tunnels

        • Mike

          Leave the re-education of the Wicked Israelis to the Esteemed Brothers of the Muslim Ummah.

          Jews have always done better within Muslim Majority countries. I fear their exposure to the ways of the Imperialist Crusaders has tainted them. Lets hope it is not irreversible.

          Only our friends in ISIS have the necessary fortitude and perseverance to cover the Holy Land in the safety of Sharia, and return the Jews to their God and the Torah of Moses.

          • The Al1en

            I called act child, but I repick fuckstick.

            • Mike

              If you have a dog in this fight, I whole heartedly encourage you to take up your rifle, fly to the middle east, and fight for your team.

              When you return, you will be able to pass on what you have learned during your military service to our own warriors.

              • The Al1en

                When I see fighting dogs, I leave them to it, like the mongrels they are.
                That and wait for a victor then kick seven bells out of it for disturbing the peace.

                Keep your brotherhood in arms bullshit to yourself, funny man.

                • Mike

                  Indeed, you must be a fierce warrior, and valiant brave, with words such as those.

                  • The Al1en

                    Unbeaten and never had to threaten women and girls with inhuman sharia law.

                    Not only does that make me hard as fuck, but a step up, or several, on what passes as a bloke from the cowardly shit stinking hole you crawled out from.

                    Now unless you have something worthwhile for me, do one.

                    • Mike

                      Your Islamophobia is chilling, friend.

                    • The Al1en

                      You wrote

                      “Leave the re-education of the sons of Issac to ISIS. Any of you who know of the defiling of the Daughters of Israel – the scantily clad IDF photos, the “Dead Sea Salt” girls that infest our malls, will know some Sharia Law will do them good.”

                      And I replied

                      “and never had to threaten women and girls with inhuman sharia law.”

                      Nothing phobic about that, it’s a realism. The cowardly shit bit, just icing on the cake.

                      Religious nutjobs (of whatever persuasion) never see the wood for the trees – They’re too busy making crosses to crucify themselves or stoking fires to burn martyrs.

                    • Mike

                      Our Glorious Leader, John Key, is both a Committed Communist and Christian.

                      He is concerned of course with Gaza, and has said a two state solution is the ideal answer.

                      But do you think the wicked of either side will accept this?

                      No, they will not, and they will continue to kill women and children. These Demons will continue to sacrifice Children to Molech, which the God of Abraham, the God of the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims abhores. Canaanites, hiding amongst the Israelis and Palestinians.

                      Our Leader knows the only way for them to live side by side would be for a strict discipline to be brought down on both states. A embracing theology that did not allow one to harm the other. An Abrahamic religion that prevented the sacrifice of children.

                      The Ummah. The Body of Islam.

                      Our leader is not a foolish Crusader who seeks to impose Western Imperialism on the Holy Land. Liberal Democracy, that tool of the Capitalist Exploiter, our leader knows is stepped in the blood of Children.

                      Western Imperialism must end. Put down the Cross, comrade. Love is not enough for our brothers in the Middle East. They need Law.

                      Long Live Islam!!

                      Long live the Ummah!!

                      Long live the Communist International!!

                    • The Al1en

                      If the material isn’t funny, the crowd’s not buying into it and you see tumbleweeds blowing across the stage – Don’t make eye contact, sideways shuffle stage right and hope nobody got it on camera phone.

                      As radio rental as they come, I fear.

                    • Mike

                      Unlike the bourgeoise, a communist does not idealise humour.

                      His goal is only service to working class.

                      Good luck with your “routine”. I hope you get the laughs you are looking for.

                    • The Al1en

                      You’re as much a communist, mental mullah as you are a funny man comic.

                      I guessed correct second time of asking 😉

                      Open mike 28/07/2014

                      Live long and prosper, nugget.

                    • Mike

                      Such rudeness from the Petite Bourgeoisie. What else was I to expect? The privileged do not give up their privileges readily.

                      I am reminded of a quote by Mussolini.

                      “Every anarchist is a baffled dictator.”

                    • The Al1en

                      “Such rudeness”
                      I’ll be sure to pass on your sensitivity to those dead sea salt girls you want to be left to isis to sort out. Double standards, I shit ’em. Tardo.

                      Biggest laugh is your use of Bourgeoisie. If it’s to be a put down, it has to believable to be effective.
                      This certainly doesn’t describe me, not even close.

                      “the middle class, typically with reference to its perceived materialistic values or conventional attitudes.”
                      ” the capitalist class who own most of society’s wealth and means of production”

                      Now sort your shit out and work out how to maximise an angle of attack that not only scores on a direct hit, but cuts at tangents to the main target for maximum effect.
                      I don’t think you have it in you, but set goals and you never know.

                    • Mike

                      You win. Talking to you is tiring.

                      It appears that the wise leaders of this board do not censor personal attacks. It appears they let anarchy, and thus the most abusive reign.

                      You obviously don’t care that the Daughters of Israel are allowed to debase both their military, or themselves, with lewdess, or themselves by washing the unclean hands of foreigners.

                      To you this is glorious “Liberty”.

                      Leviticus 19:29

                      Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.

                      You no doubt are yet another Anti Semite, that rejoices in the destruction of Israel.

                      I leave you to your small kingdom.

                    • The Al1en

                      “It appears that the wise leaders of this board do not censor personal attacks. It appears they let anarchy, and thus the most abusive reign.
                      I leave you to your small kingdom.”

                      You had a good run as far as offensive pish goes. Channeling honour killings, subjugation and abusive treatment of women and the like. Dry your eyes bruv.

                      But to be fair, if you go on like that in public, especially around centered, balanced New Zealanders, I bet you’re well use to personal attacks, it’s a bit unfair to single me out.

                    • Mike

                      Beneficiary, our working class has been exported. It is the correct word for you.

                      We are all live upon the backs of the third world. Even a beneficiary in our country is a Petite Bourgeoisie.

                      The third world is our working class.

                      The lack of any understanding of Communism on this board is understandable, with the Capitalist propaganda you have consumed your whole lives.

                      These continual attacks on Islam are disgraceful.

                    • The Al1en

                      “You no doubt are yet another Anti Semite, that rejoices in the destruction of Israel.”

                      Make your mind up. It was only a few minutes ago I was muslimaphobic.

                      Are you losing focus?

                    • Mike

                      One can be both Anti Semitic and Anti Muslim. A White Supremacist may hold both views. Not that you are, please don’t get upset by this comment, I give this only as an example.

                      The two religions are far more similar than most people think. Both prescribe stoning of adulterers and sodomites. Both prescribe the whipping of whores and fornicators.

                      Your repulsion, and outright rejection of Islam as a solution to a seeming impasse, and periodic slaughter of children is sad. If the Jews will not obey their God, then surely Islam is a close second.

                      Atheists are never much fun to talk to. I do appreciate now though that you have reduced your vitriol, and begun to argue.

                      Ad Hominem helps no one.

                    • The Al1en

                      If you think the answer is sharia law, and the women of israel and palestine paying a disproportionate price for peace, then you are asking the wrong question.

                      But ultimately, you as contributor, are damned to me by comments made about homosexuality and calling it a perversion to minors.
                      How can I take you seriously when you are so flawed? That’s rhetorical by the way.

                    • Mike

                      I defer to both the Torah of Moses and the leadership of Stalin on this one.

                    • Mike

                      From the Huffington Post, no less.

                      The White man’s cult of phallus worship.


              • minarch

                right then im off to Ireland to shoot some Catholics

                you know battle of the boyne and all that

                • Mike

                  Our queen has only just made a shaky peace with the Catholics. To cause grief on behalf of Mother England would be a terrible, and treasonous thing to do.

                  • minarch

                    traitorous wench that queen !

                    allthough what would you expect from a reptilian shapeshifter right Mike ?

                • The Al1en

                  Better take plenty of ammo, you know how they breed.

              • McFlock

                There’s enough fighting going on already.
                With an exceptionally skewed kill ratio: one side had multiple city blocks tunred into rubble and hundreds of deaths, the other side makes it a spectator sport.

              • bad12

                This one Mike is i assume intended as a joke, it sails way too close to the edge of encouraging criminal behavior for comfort,(your comfort that is),

                You obviously have no dog in that particular fight then???…

                • Mike

                  We have a duty to the land we have been allotted to, and our leaders.

                  Last I checked, we do not live in Israel or Palestine, and neither are our leaders Israelis or Palestinians.

                  • The Al1en

                    “We have a duty to the land we have been allotted to, and our leaders.”

                    Gullible and easily led much?
                    Speak for yourself, patsy.

                  • bad12

                    Mike, you might want to try and disguise all of this with a series of unneeded punctuation marks of various character, your efforts so far tonight make Phillip’s daily contribution look like the musings of one touched by God, as opposed to simply being touched in the head which is the impression you are generating…

                • Mike

                  Perhaps you are correct bad12 on the legality of my comment. I take that comment back, the one suggesting Al1en go and fight. My personal dislike of this poster got the better of my judgement.

                  I stick with our Leader, John Key, and his decision that we do not involve ourselves. I appologise Al1en, you were correct to Respect the wishes of our leader, and I was wrong to challenge him.

                  Our Leader has wisely pledged $250,000 to help the Palestinian cause.

                  • bad12

                    🙄 i think Mike that you have been engaging here in the vein of a massive piss take for the past couple of days,

                    Either that or you have a prior diagnosis as a bi-polar personality?, or better/worse depending upon how you view such diagnosis,

                    Your latest effort would suggest a bit of both…

                    • Mike

                      I am most sincere in my views.

                      Only on the internet may I profess my affection for Communism. In this politically correct society, guardians of licentiousness, the “Right” and “Left” wing would never allow such discussion.

                      Sadly, as Cam Slater is the Guardian of the right, it appears there are plenty willing to do so for the Left.

                      Communists should always be gracious in defeat, so I leave you both with this.

                      If not Islam, what kind of strict moral code, preventing Hate Speech and hateful education would allow the Israeli’s and Palestinians to live side by side? Who could administer this law so that these seemingly eternal hatreds can be put to rest?

                      Perhaps the United Nations could create for them both a legal code. A strict code preventing any dissemination of hatred for the other side, and enforced tolerance for each other.

                      The Jewish Bible and the Koran both insist upon eradication of the other. Thus, peace is never going to be possible.

                      It does not need to be Islam that be the moral code that they share, but it needs to be strict.

                    • bad12

                      That Mike has all the gravitas of a fully inflated balloon, its neck held in such a fashion so as to recreate an elongated representation of flatulence,

                      Had you not made the series of previous comments that are exhibited here tonight the comment may have held its argument to be valid,

                      Read in conjunction as the finale to the series tho it is in fact an even bigger piss take,(off you go now for a communion with Cam-puke),

                      i would suggest re: the State of Israel that an exodus of a Biblical scale will, when the Shia and Sunni have finally settled that particular blood feud, be the ultimate result,

                      The US are, as is the House of Saud, aware of this little nicety which is why they keep all sides in the conflict armed, albeit with glaring disparities…

    • joe90 18.2

      An interview with Yuval Diskin, a former Shin Bet head. He isn’t hopeful and makes it clear who he thinks is responsible for the ongoing situation.

      But Netanyahu has made the invocation of an existential threat from Iran into his mantra, it is almost messianic. And of course he has derived political profit from it. It is much easier to create consensus about the Iranian existential threat than about an agreement with the Palestinians. Because there, Netanyahu has a problem with his electorate.


      There are plenty of people within Shin Bet, Mossad and the army who think like I do. But in another five years, we will be very lonely people. Because the number of religious Zionists in positions of political power and in the military is continually growing


      Diskin had this to say too..

      the rapid deterioration we’re experiencing in the security situation did not come because of the vile murder of Naftali, Eyal and Gil-Ad, may their memories be blessed. The deterioration is first and foremost a result of the illusion that the government’s inaction on every front can actually freeze the situation in place, the illusion that “price tag” is simply a few slogans on the wall and not pure racism, the illusion that everything can be solved with a little more force, the illusion that the Palestinians will accept everything that’s done in the West Bank and won’t respond despite the rage and frustration and the worsening economic situation, the illusion that the international community won’t impose sanctions on us, that the Arab citizens of Israel won’t take to the streets at the end of the day because of the lack of care for their problems, and that the Israeli public will continue submissively to accept the government’s helplessness in dealing with the social gaps that its policies have created and are worsening, while corruption continues to poison everything good, and so on and so on.


      • silverbullet 18.2.1

        Problem is the Palestinians and Arabs are breeding at a far greater rate than Israeli Jews, just take a look at all the footage coming out of Gaza, kids all over the place. Maybe if the Israelis dropped free contraception instead of bombs they might achieve more for Israeli security in the long run?

        • vto

          Problem is that the Israeli arabs have made Gaza the world’s largest prison for the Palestinian arabs.

          They should be ashamed

          • Colonial Viper

            Gaza is a walled in ghetto where indigenous natives are surrounded by razor wire, mines and occupation force guard posts controlling all entry points and exit points.

            Not a good look for the Jewish state which once upon a time vowed “never again.”

          • silverbullet

            I don’t get the whole Israeli Arab thing. They don’t have any real power right, after all the Jews must be highly suspicious and paranoid about them.

            • vto

              the point was silverbullet that the Palestinians are arabs and the Israelis are arabs. There is no jewish race – they are fellow arabs.

              • silverbullet

                Jews are not Arabs, they share Semitic ancestory with some of them. Definitely would not call them “fellows”.

                And there are actual Israeli Arabs, they get to vote but otherwise seem like 2nd class citizens, population wise they are growing at a faster rate than Israeli Jews.

                • Colonial Viper

                  If Israel want Gazans to have fewer children, the formula is easy. Improve their living circumstances instead of bombing their infrastructure back to the stone age, let them have jobs and an economy instead of 40% unemployment and a near total embargo, support their education instead of shelling their schools and universities.

      • greywarbler 18.2.2

        It’s very hard to leave devils that spread muck on line, alone. But why encourage Mike Allen? Nobody replying to their diseased-mind utterances is an effective rebuttal. Why not try it instead of relighting the touchpaper on the rocket? I

        t makes me sick to read the crap coming out of some of these people’s minds. It shouldn’t be encouraged once it is recognised for the crazy mix of slogans, racism, vilification and hate transference that is being spouted. It’s as unpleasant to read as vomit is to smell and impossible to completely clean – the memory remains.

  19. bad12 19

    From my wireless, RadioNZ Natioanl News @ 10.00am, Did i here that right???, Slippery the Prime Minister is said to have confirmed that Murray McCully will not be pulled from the East Coast Bays electorate in favor of Colon the Conservative,

    Slippery himself didn’t speak to the piece on the wireless, but, Colon the Conservative was heard bizarrely going wah wah Wah, finishing with a nah,nah,nah,nah nah in the form of ”there were more people at His latest meeting than one held by David Cunliffe somewhere”,

    Disappointing really i would have expected Colon to, after having been thwarted in such a fashion, to have declared Jihad or a new Holy War,

    Instead what pretty much appears to have been the death notice for the electoral chances of the Conservatives issued by Slippery the PM resulted in a series of dull whines from Craig…

    • bad12 19.1

      The NZHerald online version confirms the above, aah it’s so great to smell the stench of Colon Craig’s burning millions,(how many million has the plonker wasted so far, 1, 2, 3, 4, million dollars all for nothing, that must be totally Gutting and my attempts to not Laugh out Loud have become an exercise in futility)…

      • Naki man 19.1.1

        Exactly the same thing will happen to the fat German when he is extradited.

        [lprent: Pre-guessing court verdicts is a very bad idea for many reasons.

        Expressing them as an assertion is just outright stupidity because what you are effectively doing is to tell a judge what they should do – something that you are clearly incompetent to do. But it is also bad news in many ways. One of them is that I don’t want judges getting pissed off with this site.

        If you want to make such assertions then you should express them as your opinion and ideally to explain why you hold that opinion. Never ever demand what a judge will do.

        Banned three weeks – one each for stupidity, endangering this site, and bone idle laziness. You should use the time to find out more about how the judiciary actually operates here. ]

        • bad12

          Nakahi man, you will have to be far more explanatory in your comments than the latest dribble of drivel…

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Oh I think you’ll find $3M to IMP will leave a lasting legacy 😈

          • The Al1en

            Wishful thinking without projections and reinforcing data.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              An educated guess based on Laila Harré’s involvement in spending it.

              • The Al1en

                So wishful thinking based on LH involvement, that’s fair enough, but when kdc is extradited and the courts come looking for his loot as compensation, it may not be the end to the dream you’re looking for.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  The $3M he gave to IMP isn’t his any more. You seem very optimistic on Hollywood’s behalf.

                  • The Al1en

                    Optimistic doesn’t come in to it, it’s the reality of the situation, of why kdc is so heavily ‘invested’ in NZ politics right now.
                    If you believe the gift to the nation guff, then that trumps my realism any day.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The ‘reality’ is that he hasn’t been found guilty of anything in the US. That court case will take years if it goes ahead at all.

                      A crystal ball you have.

                      It wasn’t a gift to the nation it was a calculated attack on the National Party. I don’t think much of your ‘realism’.

                    • The Al1en

                      “A crystal ball you have.
                      It wasn’t a gift to the nation it was a calculated attack on the National Party.”

                      There is a recent report where it is stated his gift was to the people of NZ. No crystal balls needed, but google will help find it. Are you saying kdc is a liar and a vindictive schemer?

                      “I don’t think much of your ‘realism’.”

                      I don’t expect you too. Al1en I may be, but rooted firmly on planet Terra I am.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      ‘A gift to the nation’ is a positive spin on ‘a calculated attack upon the National Party’; well spotted.

          • bad12

            Indeed, it depends on how the monies from DotCom to facilitate the electoral efforts of InternetMana were/are treated,

            Should part or all of these monies have been wisely invested, the DotCom gift may well keep on giving way past the current election…

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              … whether he is extradited or not.

              • The Al1en

                Which he will be, by lunch time, if the nats are returned in September.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I’m operating under the assumption that the courts will order his extradition – although that’s by no means a certainty – and I’m idly curious as to which National Party justice minister could make the call without immediate judicial review of their massive conflict of interest.

                  • dv

                    How about the court saying
                    ‘you have not followed all of our rulings ( re the return of data)
                    When the court rulings are obeyed we will consider the extradition”

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I’m not sure that’s covered by the act. Section 8 may prove problematic to the Crown’s case.

                • bad12

                  Not necessarily Alien, my understanding of the status of the charges DotCom faces are that the copyright allegations have been ‘stayed’ by the US Court,

                  As the other charges, Racketeering etc, rely upon the proving of the original allegations of copyright infringement i fail to see how a Court in New Zealand can do anything but dismiss the extradition request from the US, or, likewise ‘stay’ such a request until such time the US proves to the Court here in New Zealand that a prima- facie case exists to support the Racketeering/Money Laundering allegations,

                  Without having an actual ‘live’ case to support the original copyright infringements i would suggest makes the above impossible as charges of Racketeering/Money Laundering must by definition derive from some other illegal/illicit action…

                  • The Al1en

                    Mega has loads of copyrighted material for illegal download right now.
                    Make the most of it while you can, it won’t last.

                    I could, but won’t, provide links as proof. I don’t want to appear in court as the star witness that took down kdc.
                    1% of the voting population would never forgive me.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So what? Did Mega upload the material, or did their users?

                    • bad12

                      i think you are mistaken in that you describe what you see as copyrighted material as being ”Mega’s”,

                      It is a fact is it not, that the ‘individuals’ who pay Mega for the right to store material have the legal possession of it,

                      The same legal niceties can be seen in the operation of any physical storage facility, the owners of such are not responsible for everything stored at such a facility,(unless they knowingly allow illegal items to be stored),

                      Should those who hold copyright over material stored at the Mega site provide a request along with proof of copyright that such material be removed then i would suggest if such a request were refused a case could be made that Mega were facilitating the use of copyrighted materials to the detriment of those who hold the copyright…

                    • The Al1en

                      Just saying the stuff is there in kim’s cloud, 100%

                      And as far as pay to host Bad, according to the recent spat with xero’s boss, less than 1% of users pay to host on mega.

                    • bad12

                      Alien, ”pay to host”, that needs an explanation, what is the difference in ‘pay to store’ and ‘pay to host’ if any…

                    • The Al1en

                      Host/store I meant it as the same thing.

                      According to one source, 1% paying customers, 99% with free accounts.

                      From a bitchy tweet by kdc to the xero bloke.

                      Mega: 10+m users, 350 gigabit bandwidth utilization.


                      Xero: 300k users, 0.5 gigabit bandwidth utilization.

                      STFU Rod ‘overvalued’ Drury

                    • bad12

                      Alien, a microscope would have been needed to split that particular hair, the difference between paying and not paying to ‘store’ stuff at Mega having no particular bearing on the discussion,

                      My point being that Mega, as is the case for every other storage facility of the genre, simply provides a storage facility and what users of that facility choose to store there is cannot make Mega culpable unless, as i state above, Mega has been advised of copyrighted material being used/stored at Mega and refuses to remove it,

                      There is a legal argument that could be made that whomever owns the copyright should be pursuing the person(s) who store the material and not the storage facility,(Mega)…

                • The Al1en

                  Seeing the bold type above.

                  In relation to “Which he will be, by lunch time, if the nats are returned in September.”

                  My opinion based on the aggressive nature of the copyright holders in bringing cases for breaches in the past.
                  And the nats will just want rid.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    The court will set the timetable, not Hollywood, not the government.

          • Bearded Git

            OAB re IMP-I saw KDC on tv a few days ago saying he was now spending $4 million.

            He must be enjoying the campaign.

  20. minarch 20

    Where unsold cars go to die !


    luxury car sales are going up though (of course)

    Please note that wealthy people are still buying McLaren, Zonda, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Maybach, Rolls-Royce etc in fact sales have shot up 80% in the last few years. But when we are talking about the working class and cars for like 10, 15, 20 and 25 grand the story is different…very different.

    • silverbullet 21.1

      I always liked reading Finkelstein over the years, sticking it to the US pro Israeli crowd. But I feel more ambiguous towards the Israel/Palestine issue these days.

      Snow states the average age in Gaza is 17. So why are the Palestinians having crazy numbers of kids when their circumstances are already bloody dangerous and miserable. Is it a deliberate ploy to overwhelm the enemy via a population explosion?

      • Tracey 21.1.1

        Or is it a “ploy” to try live a normal life in abnormal times. You presume no hope remains for a brighter future.

        • silverbullet

          I am very pessimistic about the entire Middle East. Probably about the most nightmarish scenario is taking place right now with ISIS establishing a caliphate and decorating it with crucifixions and beheadings.

          I think that maybe Israel is “cleaning house” and getting ready for ISIS which already has 35% of Syria and news every day it has sized more. Will virtually all of Syria besides Damascus fall into ISIS control?

          Everyone was waiting for ISIS to attack Baghdad, instead they took all the top notch firepower left when the Iraq army fled and turned again to take Syria – which is probably a way better strategic plan. ISIS are lethal because they are excellent strategists and fanatical. Who would want to go into battle against men who play with decapitated heads during their morning tea break?

          • Colonial Viper

            Israel clearing out Hamas and debilitating the Palestinian Authority will open the perfect space for something ISIS-like to arise. Even the US military has said so.

            • Chooky

              CV+100…ever get the feeling that there are fools running the place?

            • silverbullet

              Possibly, but if Israel got the wiff of an ISIS like element ( maybe they already see Hamas like that? ) then they will turn Gaza to dust – and we all know they have the fire power to do it.

              The reality is Israel does not want a Palestinian state or Palestinian anything, I think one Israeli politico said the Palestinain could live like dogs until they left.

              Maybe international sanctions would work to make the Israelis hold off, the boycott seems to be getting stronger. I guess the idea is a South Africa style demise. Probably the only thing that will make the Israelis back down would be a withdrawal of USA support.

              Personally I am glad NZ is far away from the ME shit storm and like most NZers are not amused by Muslim immigrants burning Israeli or US flags on our streets.

      • greywarbler 21.1.2

        @ silverbullet 1.10
        Don’t be so painfully thoughtless – can’t you understand human nature at all. The Palestinians probably haven’t or aren’t allowed to use, condoms. They live in severely deprived circumstances where they haven’t much to comfort them. Both Jewish and Muslim religions seem to be patriarchal and male dominated, though the Jewish seem to have become more gender integrated for rights. Having sex daily may be part of the male expectation in these societies, or so I have heard. Births are bound to rise in these circumstances.

        • Chooky

          lol greywarbler …the Palestinians are not Catholics…ever read anything of Edward Said’s?




          the Palestinians are a very sophisticated people

          • Chooky

            more from Edward Said

          • greywarbler

            @ Chooky 7.11
            Have you read Souad the story of a Muslim woman. I’d be interested in your opinions about it. And one man who actually isn’t living in Palestine might be thinking and behaving differently to those incarcerated in that Israeli prison.

            • Chooky

              @ greywarbler

              Have you read the critiques of this book?…How true is it exactly?…repressed memory?…horrific burns with no documented evidence? I am not saying crimes against women don’t happen against Palestinian women…. just as they do elsewhere in the world eg India, New Zealand ,Ireland , New York, Israel…but is this one true or is it propaganda?




              • greywarbler

                @ Chooky 10.31
                I have accepted it on face value because Souad was helped by an outside group to escape and receive treatment. That group may itself be a falsehood. Because I know that there is very bad treatment of women in a number of countries with old traditional male-dominated class-stratified practices, I did not think of doubting it. I will follow up your links thanks.

                It doesn’t change my point as to why the Palestinians should not be criticised for having rising births while in the midst of chaos and cruelty by a vengeful, malicious, dirty-dealing Israeli army government.

                Palestinians try to carry on their lives and through continuing to have sex and babies, declare that they are people and defy the Israelis desire for them to go away or be extinguished, leaving their land for occupation.

                The Israelis would have to gas them as the Nasties did to them in Germany to get rid of them. The Jewish people would then have had revenge, and gained precious and historical land and perhaps stronger borders against the growing hatred of the Muslim people which they have largely fostered themselves. I do not think that will make happy and satisfied. Indeed if they destroyed Palestine and Palestinians they never could. The shame and infamy would hang over them for ever.

                I wonder if they then would ever be able to recover their own souls, after revenging the souls of those poor suffering Jewish prisoners killed so industrially and industriously while Germany went through its own period of madness and psychopathy. It’s a vicious circle that Jews do not seem to recognise. The Israelis are creating and shaping themselves with their own hands and actions, into the style of the images and thoughts expressed in the disgusting propaganda put out against Jews by the Nasties prior to and during WW2.

  21. Draco T Bastard 22

    Are We Having an Election or a Game of Trivial Pursuit?

    The Alliance Party wants to remind people that it is ok to care. It is ok to want the best, to believe anything is possible, and to believe that New Zealand – and the world on large-scale – is able to be changed for the better. At the risk of stating the obvious, an election would seem like the ideal time to focus on this – for both politicians and voters.

    Instead we’re getting out of context attacks on apologies and bunkum on red scarves.

  22. joe90 23

    So school vouchers do produce better outcomes – if you cheat.

    It’s the darker side of competition that Milton Friedman and his free-market disciples tend to downplay: If parents value high test scores, you can compete for voucher dollars by hiring better teachers and providing a better education—or by going easy in grading national tests. Competition was also meant to discipline government schools by forcing them to up their game to maintain their enrollments, but it may have instead led to a race to the bottom as they too started grading generously to keep their students.


  23. Draco T Bastard 24

    Report: Germany to reject EU-Canada trade deal

    Citing diplomats in Brussels, the Sueddeutsche Zeitung said Berlin objects to clauses outlining the legal protection offered to firms investing in the 28-member bloc. Critics say they could allow investors to stop or reverse laws.

    Are any of our politicians able to do the same with regards to the TPPA?

  24. The Lone Haranguer 25

    Minarch, I think you may find that those pikkys are fake.


    Or maybe its all true and the Jalopnik link is the fake story?

  25. McFlock 26

    Holiday highways for some areas, but Dunedin roads get funding cuts.

    Obviously they don’t think Woodhouse has a shot of beating Curran in Dunedin South.

    • Draco T Bastard 26.1

      Personally, I wouldn’t worry about it. By the time that the funding starts decreasing there won’t be any more building of roads as the cost of driving will be going through the roof and even the RWNJs will start realising how much of a white elephant the Roads of National’s Significance were (They will, of course, blame Labour).

      • McFlock 26.1.1

        maybe so.

      • silverbullet 26.1.2

        I think SH1 should be upgraded to a dual carriage way like the Auckland Northern Gateway, from Kaitia to Invercargill, plus laterals to provincial centers like New Plymouth and Napier. That’s the kind of transport system a 1st world country has.

        • McFlock

          frankly a heavy traffic bypass (so that stock trucks and freight don’t go through the middle of town) would be a nice to have.

          Every so often someone makes a small mistake that has a massive penalty for failure, usually no fault of the truckie, too.

        • Colonial Viper

          1st world = rail

          declining world = roads (eg USA)

          • Draco T Bastard


          • silverbullet

            You could run rail down the middle of the expressway.

            I support the idea of rail – get more trucks off the road, and tourists would flock to a train ride that took them up and down the country.

            But a BASIC spine of high quality motorway is needed. The Auckland Northern Gateway is a PLEASURE to travel – efficient and beautiful.

            • Colonial Viper

              NB every road you build now will also be virtually unused in 25 years time.

              • greywarbler

                @ colonial viper
                I don’t see why there won’t be lots of bikes and bikes-with tow trailer on them.
                Motor scooters bikes with electric drive and chargeing batteries while riding etc. It will be busy as…

        • greywarbler

          @silver bullet
          A 1st world country? What’s that and where? When you pull off the wrappings of all the 1st world class propaganda, underneath is something pulsing and oozing.
          There is something shoddy in the state of Mythmania perhaps more like Gormenghast.

          • silverbullet

            You need to drop the “class” rhetoric, god forbid Cunliffe starts talking “class war” on the leaders debate, Hoskins would have a field day, lol.

            Take a look at China and the massive transport infrastructure it has/is building. They understand the need for a high quality transport system to increase standard of living. Of course there are issues of peak oil/peak everything. A report by a scientist claims that Los Angeles can go solar,wind,thermal and tidal power by 2050 and thrive. But maybe the mega drought will get them first?

            • Colonial Viper

              Cunliffe shouldn’t be talking “class war” at the TV debates, correct. Simple allusions and metaphors around class war will be enough to get the message across.

    • Pasupial 26.2


      Woodhouse is not going up against Curran. Rather, he is again standing in Dunedin North against Clark – which may be a close run contest if Turei appeals to a lot of erstwhile Labour voters. It’s Hamish Walker in Dunedin South, here’s the Nat press release that Scoop has on him:

      born-and-bred Dunedinite… moved to Auckland, completed a degree in accountancy, and in 2012 started his own property management business, which is now being franchised… rugby referee… “I will be a strong and passionate voice in John Key’s National Party”


  26. Herodotus 27

    Gerry Brownlee issue from last week.
    New Zealand regulations say when a person boards a jet-engined plane without being subject to a security check, the plane should be emptied and passengers should pass through security again.

    Should not all passengers within the outward bound terminal have to be cleared, as if something untoward was passed on then this could be to a passenger on another flight to another destination ?

    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      sounds logical

      the thought of what “untoward” material Gerry Brownlee might pass on to another passenger is a bit eeeew

      • Herodotus 27.1.1

        Forgot to include this should also cover all workers that had been cleared to work in the area. The more I think about it, this breach should have had major extensive implications. If the authorities had acted accordingly think of the disruptions that should have resulted, I would imagine that flights out of Chch would have been delayed for many hours as the authorities reacted as they should have to this security breach. Even if Brownlee gets charged IMO he has been lightly let off.
        This as a result of a thoughtless act “He said he did not give it any thought, but has now apologised unreservedly for the action.”

  27. greywarbler 28

    Northland businesses are agitating for money to be spent on their minor roads, which are major roads to them. The recent floods showed how unsatisfactory this is. Fonterra couldn’t collect from 200 farms. They are desperate and it may be that old Nat John Carter might have some arm twisting abilities. Something needs to be done. The bloody smart road to Puhoi can wait. The north has always been neglected compared to rest of NZ.

    On this map it can be seen that the Puhoi to Warkworth road expenditure is very far south from the needy northern section around Whangarei and to the Far North.

    Radionz news –
    Northland leaders say huge spend needed on roads ( 3′ 18″ )
    17:40 Northland councils and businesses are calling for major spending on the region’s roads.


  28. Draco T Bastard 29

    From Concorde to the iPhone, state intervention drives technological innovation

    Mazzucato, in a paper with LSE professor Carlota Perez, points out the danger of leaving tech to the private sector. In an economy bloated with printed money and cheap credit, if capital can’t find real-world, high-growth, high-profit opportunities to invest in, it will pool into the finance system, creating one bubble after another.

    And when you throw in the fact that it’s the private banks creating the money it gets even worse.

    If the proponents of modern laissez-faire economics could point to a single economy where technology and markets had worked, alone, to create a vibrant, confident, high-growth economic model, their arguments would be stronger. But it’s China, Singapore, South Korea and Brazil where the success stories happened. The state was at the centre of every one.

    It is, and always has been, the state that produces an ever improving society. The privatised free-market does the exact opposite as we see in the growing inequality and poverty of the last thirty years.

  29. Weepus beard 30

    Winston should go stand in Epsom. That would really f*ck the Nats up.

    Can’t for the life of me imagine why anyone would vote for hairpiece. Time for a change isn’t it, Karori? Isn’t it? This is the guy who texted Andrea Vance 30 times a day. This is the guy who refused to make legal highs illegal because his son acted for the industry. This is the revenue minister. Has anyone tried dealing with the IRD in a 21st century way? It’s not pretty.

    You can do better, Karori.

  30. greywarbler 31

    A Hong Kong woman has been found guilty of being involved in importing amphetamine. She has been sentenced to jail and has to have a non-parole period of 4 years – when she will be deported.

    So we are going to punish ourselves with high costs to punish her, and then deport her. How bloody stupid. Is there anyone alive and thinking in government? Pollies have to be more than sentient, they need to think about crime and punishment – the musical perhaps rather than the book.. All singing and dancing taxpayers who want a cost-benefit analysis of what period is a worthwhile punishment. This after preparing systems setting out what is to be done in retraining, discussion about ethical rules in society, an effort to reach any remnants of personal spirit, morality and future goal setting and assistance etc. which would be effective in preventing recidivism and in how short a time. Then release the non-violent ones with reporting to probation officers and with recall possible for serious infringements.

  31. feijoa 32

    Policy releases from National….

    1) the road thingey


    Nothing else
    Just keep on slamming David

    • Weepus beard 32.1

      Don’t forget electorate gifts to the incest party of Epsom, and to the serial texter party of Karori.

  32. greywarbler 33

    Why does Winston Peters have to be such a not-so-smart dick so much of the time? Just when he is in a position to do something useful for the NZ political system now, he blabs on about how he is too good to have anything to do with MP or Mana because he won’t have a bar of race-based politics.

    Oh can it will you Winston. Just shut your gob, work with whomever and help us to get a forward looking, practical, people and SME oriented government, that is if you care about NZ and not just your bloody image being flashed around, getting more double breasted suits and hair grooming products, advancing your own future and getting the dosh.

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