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Open mike 28/08/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 28th, 2011 - 66 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

66 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2011 ”

  1. just saying 1

    I wonder if it would be possible to get a petition going to have the ‘Left Leaning’ column, which ostensibly provides one of the few spaces for the voices of the left in our largely right-leaning media, to be written by someone who is, I dunno, a bit left? Even centre would be a step in the left direction.

    In this particularly appalling piece, http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/blogs/john-pagani-left-leaning/5511201/Heres-how-we-stop-our-kids-being-bashed Pagani links to an even more appalling item written by Tony Blair, http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/20/tony-blair-riots-crime-family which he says he found “moving”.

    On a positive note: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10747833

  2. Here’s what I think would be a realistic outcome from the election with a good balance of power that reflects the current state of politics.

    National 56
    UnitedFuture 6
    Maori Party 4
    Act 4

    Labour 40
    Greens 10
    Mana 1

    Explained more: Election Predictions

    • But Pete you won’t even declare who you are going to vote for.  Why should we place credence in your views?

      And ACT 4 ups but Mana only one?  Is this a sign of right wing bias? 

      • Pete George 2.1.1

        It’s got nothing to do with left right anything, I’d be quite happy with Act 1, Mana 1.

        I rate Act 0-5 depending on Epsom and how much party vote they get.

        Mana are a probably going to get one, ok, they could pick up one or two more on party vote but that would be at the expense of Labour.

        Just listening to Sepuloni, I wish she wouldn’t talk in election slogans.

        • kriswgtn

          United Future 6??

          hahha comedy central

        • mickysavage

          So let’s all play pull figures out of our arse.

          And by no means should we discuss anything meaningful, like the country’s problems and what to do about them.

          • Pete George

            One way of dealing with problems is to get into government, but that’s not all I’m doing, I work off the net as well.

            Today I’m also working on doing something about problems, like NARK, Child Matters, and here’s a really neat thing that I’m helping promote at the moment: chatbus.org.nz

    • Lanthanide 2.2

      I’d prefer if UF got 6 seats at the expense of National and Act too.

      No doubt you want this outcome as well so you can swan off to Wellington and suck up the nice salary and pension scheme.

      Unfortunately for you, they’re not likely to get more than 2 seats, and only then if Dunne can take his seat which isn’t exactly the safest in the country.

    • Tiger Mountain 2.3

      Often on the net you see unwarranted ‘LOL’s but today I actually Laughed Out Loud after reading tory Pete’s mirthful post-UF 6? Harr effin harr!

    • locus 2.4

      only just read this UF6 – lol – hahahahaha

  3. Gawd on Q&A they have three right wingers, Tamihere, Phil O’Reilly, and some woman who thinks the Spirit Level has been discredited, discussing the book.  O’Reilly thinks that not growing “is just madness”.  And Holmes admitted he diid not understand an interview with one of the authors of the book.

    Where is the balance? 

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      although we don’t really need the MSM’s facile version of ‘balance’…we need critical discussion and a media able to use facts and figures to force people to move on from their little PR platitudes.

    • neoleftie 3.2

      MS – surely in a global sense with more and more countries and modern type consumers coming onstream there must be net global growth to cater for the increased number who demand consumerables. More connected countries means more efficiencies in resource utilisation surely.
      Do we as a global connected society simple say too the rest i.e africa, etc too late, you missed the boat but we’ll take your resources though.

      Now good points from Q+A
      – discource on envirnomental impact and increased awareness and contribution from agri sector.
      – need for a socital discusion around social inequality and at what slope do we ‘float the boats’.
      -good imput on crime and how to lessen impact on society and police resources.

      • Colonial Viper 3.2.1

        MS – surely in a global sense with more and more countries and modern type consumers coming onstream there must be net global growth to cater for the increased number who demand consumerables.

        Orlov put it very well: Mother Nature does not change its behaviour due to price signals.

        There will be no more global net growth because the physical world system cannot support exponential growth any longer. And our financial system cannot support exponential growth (of debt) any longer.

        And the main constraint: cheap oil. There is virtually none left.

        • neoleftie

          yes CV i agree totally peak oil, lack of eco stability etc etc…There must and will be a shift from oil for energy to oil for consumerables only at some point but limiting factors are availability of govt cash reserves and willpower (both in very short supply ). I wonder if the extreme right ,who can read the same signals as the left, havent a plan for after as well. Use cheap energy and resources and then via science / techno use their system liquidity and cash in / control the next phase of development.
          I see two paths – social democratic slow adaption to the next growth/ developement phase via govt control and constructs or a sole bought out /leveraged mega-private sector society without any public controls or direction at all.

          • aerobubble

            The societial arrangement surely isn’t all that relevant, its the one we choose.
            Centralizers want to control resources, but its turning out that the solutions
            to our world crisises, food, population, climate, resources, energy, is more
            ant like. The ‘central’ of an ant colony is a egg producer, nothing more
            nothing less. Government in the new networked local centric world will\
            not be the centre. So you could be right, depending on who you ask
            the world could look owned by mega-private ‘queens’ yet still be slowly
            adapt to the next growth phase. The right could be right, government is
            the problem, and the left could be right that businesses are not the engine
            of society. That when we all conform our behavior – think local act
            globally – then we will survive. Think of it like this, why do you
            drive within the white lines. Well the council makes the best road
            in between the lines. The lines aren’t there to contain you, its your
            choice to stay within the lines, its in your interest since others
            stay on the other side of the line and so you gain safety by
            staying within the line. This is when government should be,
            drawing lines, measuring if they work, and keeping us from harming
            ourselves and prospering. But government does not do this anymore,
            the right believe its their right to get very very rich and exploit,
            the left believe its there right to decide what society should look like,
            what we need is neither the right or the left, we need to trust people
            and provide the people networks to faciliate their personal growth,
            and everything will come right again. We just have too many sociopathic
            control narcissists in power and in the media, and we will all pay
            dearly for their needy attention disorders. clip of Key dressed in drag
            at a gay festival.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2

        Do we as a global connected society simple say too the rest i.e africa, etc too late, you missed the boat but we’ll take your resources though.

        That’s what we’ve been telling them since colonisation a few hundred years ago.

        • neoleftie

          yes but each region or country is on its own economic pathway with its own pace of economic evolution. stability, security and consumerism would appear to be necessary factor that allow for a sucessful adoption into the western paradym…oh and the McDonalds too.
          We all know the rational for USA etc to support or invade non connected or misaligned strategic countries such as iraq…and dictate to other countries adherance to internation regs that allow free trade or movment of capital.
          We IMO need every country connected and functioning so we can face the challenges ahead over the next 50-100 years.

          The only viable long term solution is a ‘next way’ economic system that will manage the transition from a Neolib / Socialist matrix flipflop to a more balanced, globally connected social democratic govt where we still have room for capital investment in a limited private sector.
          My thoughts would see the rise of workplace co-ops ( as the new work unions ) expanded SOE / Public sector sphere that provide control / influence on wages and worker condition ( the expanded public sector would provide a balance to the private sector ). Erodicate the concept of traditional model of ownership of housing and control the price of land as this cause market created bubbles and artifical instabilities.
          Why not a complex ‘rent to own’ scheme where need is meet by the state…The real nominal cost of a new average house build is far far lower than present values.

          At present our economic system is chaotic, full of contridiction, lack of coordination and simply inefficient in a holistc sense. resources are being misused and wasted.
          What right does 1500 billionaire individuals have to live a utopian dream when the billions upon billions of the global population starve or eck out a miserable existance?

          • Draco T Bastard

            …limited private sector.

            There is no such thing as a private sector or, for that matter, a government sector – there is only society.

            At present our economic system is chaotic, full of contridiction, lack of coordination and simply inefficient in a holistc sense. resources are being misused and wasted.

            Yep, there is a massive misallocation of the worlds resources caused by the capitalist paradigm.

    • I can’t remember the name of the woman either but ….OMG!
      Our binge drinking culture is a product of children coming home and watching Home and Away where people meet at the local bar for drinks?
      That’s it! Pissed teens are gathering on the North Shore for riotous parties because they saw it on Home and Away! Well, that’s easily solved.
      Let’s axe Home and Away and replace with something safer….like Cheers.
      BTW…..there is no bar on Home and Away!

    • Purplescottie 3.4

      Going by the discussion of The Spirit Level, I don’t think any of them had read the book.
      Their problems with the theory had been covered and refuted in the book.

      • aerobubble 3.4.1

        They were not even listening, the prof said inequality measure was a flag indicating
        poor economic outcomes for rich and poor. Rich parent are just as likely too be
        uneducated enough to stop their kids getting immunized, for example.

        But the ost conceited media was laid law on entrepreneurs, that was a shocker
        for myopia.

    • neoleftie 3.5

      inerestingly the balance is alreay presnt at grassroot levels…’the spirit level’ and its insight are being discussed at various levels or sectors such as in ECE.

  4. tc 4

    Q&A is another soapbox to ensure Ellis pockets a circa million p.a. Package from his nat mates and masters.
    due to a lack of a public broadcaster providing balance and objectivity we get this one sided approach…..look across the Tasman where ABC and SBS set a bar the others follow or just don’t get watched when it matters.
    They enjoy jumps in ratings when major events occur as people know they can be trusted….whereas here it’s reality tv and jokers like Holmes, Espiner, garner and associated sycophants.

  5. randal 5

    I dont know about the rest of the country but round here the Labour Party candidate and his team have been working away for over a year and I think they have avery good chance of toppling the incumbent National party and dispatching them with a very healthy majority for Labour. Locally Labour is seen as the can do party and the chances are looking better every day.

    • kriswgtn 5.1

      I met the new MP for Otaki 3 weeks ago
      Primo guy
      Had good 30 mins talking with him

      and he said from his meeting people in Levin- it highly likely Guy will lose his seat
      made my day

  6. KJT 6

    Spotted in the Herald comments.

    “Yes you’re right. There is this famous exchange at the G* a year or so back between Gordon Brown and Angela Merkel where Brown asks why Germany weathered the GFC so well and Britain had just plummeted into debt. Merkel answered “Because Germany still makes things Mr Brown!””

  7. Anne 7

    Anyone noticed that Labour’s blog site ‘Red Alert’ is being rapidly taken over by trained trollers whose brief is to undermine the site’s owners and supporters? These individuals seem to work in loose groups, and bully their victims with repetitive criticisms and insults. I put much of the blame on the timidity of the MP owners who talk about the problem, but seem unwilling to take positive action to get rid of them. Genuine critics are welcome and make for healthy debate, but these narcisstic nasties are anything but genuine.

    All I can say is: it will be to the site’s detriment, because soon there will be nobody of worth bothering to comment there – which I guess is the ultimate aim of the NAct campaign.

    • wtl 7.1

      Haven’t properly visited for awhile, but always thought that ‘Red Alert’ would be a prime target for attack by trolls, whether coordinated by spin merchants or just a bunch of losers with an axe to grind. I think it was always going to happen sooner or later unless they switched comments off or engaged in very strict moderation.

      • Anne 7.1.1

        always thought that ‘Red Alert’ would be a prime target for attack by trolls, whether coordinated by spin merchants or just a bunch of losers with an axe to grind

        There’s both. It’s easy to tell which is which. The ‘losers’ are one man bands and, as you say, they have a bee in their bonnet. The professional spin merchants repeatedly attack the authors and commenters until – particularly in the case of commenters – they fall silent presumably cowered. Their lines are just too pat to be random.

        • Anne

          in the case of commenters – they fall silent presumably cowered.

          err… in the case of some commenters- not all.

          • chris73

            Or maybe the arguements presented are piss-weak and easily countered…

            But at least you’ve still got your true believers like spud 🙂

            • Anne

              He’s alright chris 73. I enjoy his witty one liners. Although even Spuddy boy has been silenced a bit of late…

              • chris73

                I’m sorry but did you mention spud and witty one liners in the same breath?

                Seriously though any swing voter that goes onto red alert and reads his comments are likely to think hes a bit…(not sure how to say this without insulting anyone) simple

                • Anne

                  I was responding to your comment in friendly jest. Spud his who he is. He’s of Pacific Island extraction and it’s part of his personality. He may like to use seemingly simple minded one liners much of the time but he isn’t simple, and contributes pertinent observations when he want to. Cmon chris73, live and let live.

                • KJT

                  You havn’t spent much time reading Kiwibog.

                  Don’t blame you though. You leave feeling soiled.

    • thejackal 7.2

      NRT has removed the comments feature without much trouble. Personally I think having a forum for people to directly communicate with their representatives is a good idea. The trolls be damned!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.3

      Didn’t Clare mention that she was going get rid of the trolls?

      • Anne 7.3.1

        They got rid of one and have threatened (too timidly in my view) to moderate or ban a few others but that’s all. They need a lesson or two from lPrent.

        • chris73

          The problem is that a troll is a subjective term and if you’re going to start banning right-wing trolls will you then ban the left-wing trolls as well?

          • Anne

            I have a recollection RA did ban one insufferably rude leftie not too long ago. Can’t remember is blogging name.

          • lprent

            We have done it a number of times, booting people from all sides when required. There is a definite bias against rwnj’s. But I suspect that most of that is because the nj’s of other persuasions tend to value having the site available more – they amend their behavior when warned.

            But we look much more at behavior rather than peoples philosophy. The underlying criteria is the good of the site as expressed in the about. You don’t do that by supression of alternate ideas. You do it by removing people who are incapable of arguing and have the flexibility of a badly programmed robot.

            The fastest way to find out if someone is capable of learning is to stress them at a personal level. Personally I have decades of experience at how to do it, and query level access to a rather large database of whatever is said here makes it a hell of a lot easier. That is why I will sometimes start to torment people – I want to find out is they are merely automata.

            All that being said, I have one major advantage at moderating on a site like this. I simply do not care about what others think about me. I am not a politician nor anything more than a member of a political party. The things that I consider as being crucially important questions are not those discussed here.

            My involvement in the political sphere because of a sense of duty in constraining the ability of political people from screwing up too badly. Having open and public forums is a effective way to do it.

            Getting back to Annes point about team trolling – I just don’t tolerate it. To me it is just evidence of a berserk reproducing virus type program, and programmers hate CPU gobblers like that. People will operate as individuals here if theydo not want to attract my attention.

            • chris73

              Well thats what I mean, this site doesn’t allow it and red alert doesn’t allow it yet it seems to me that red alert is far more “trigger-happy” when it comes to banning people for being trolls

              Maybe they’re a tad more… precious

              • lprent

                Getting the right balance is far more of an art than a science and it depends on how far the local comment culture is from what is wanted.

                I was a *lot* more trigger happy when I was changing pattern of the comment culture here. But we’re also far more sadistic than a politician can be seen to be. That gives us far more options about how to modify behavior. We can do other things rather than banning, and those are frequently a damn sight worse.

  8. Like the climate change deniers who spend vast sums to discredit the convincing science that supports it, there is an equivalent reaction to Wilkinson and Pickett’s research on income inequality. The panel on Q&A were very dismissive of The Spirit Level based on the interview with Richard Wilkinson but I wonder how many of them actually read the book and the data that supported it.

  9. randal 9

    anne..red alert red alert..bandits at 12 o’clock.

  10. thejackal 10

    Super Fund Invests in Nuclear Weapons

    Last Wednesday it was revealed that the New Zealand superannuation fund holds 44,595 shares worth $2,082,736 in a Mumbai-based multinational company called Larsen and Toubro, which in partnership with the Indian Navy, is involved in designing and manufacture a fleet of nuclear-armed submarines for India. But that’s not all Larsen & Toubro (L&T) India’s largest engineering group gets up to…

    • Vicky32 10.1

      Last Wednesday it was revealed that the New Zealand superannuation fund holds 44,595 shares worth $2,082,736 in a Mumbai-based multinational company called Larsen and Toubro, which in partnership with the Indian Navy, is involved in designing and manufacture a fleet of nuclear-armed submarines for India. But that’s not all Larsen & Toubro (L&T) India’s largest engineering group gets up to…


  11. marsman 11

    “THE HOLLOW MEN” the film, is on Maori channel tonight at 8.30 pm. Very pertinent especially now, the main players are still getting away with their shady, self-serving scams.

  12. aerobubble 12

    NZ loves to grow weeds! Evn when it finds a king crop, milk, it puts its whole weight
    behind it and leaves a bit pile of cow shit floating down the water ways. Its always
    so black and white. NZ needs to diversify, so that means we should ignore the
    problem with all the weedy companies we have now, throw money at new start ups
    with a now discreited consumer paradigm. Oh, what insipidness. Any farmer
    does better with what he has, and that’s why we spend so much time with
    jingoistic business mantras about new innovation. We need to seize the new
    world economic reality, local, networked, low energy (or high energy where
    its cheap – i.e. Here IN nz), but no with new roads, and less education we
    are going to drive ourselves into a new growth phase.

  13. felix 13

    ACT has released a list of rich white men from Auckland: http://www.act.org.nz/news/act-releases-its-party-list-for-2011-general-election

    Bit surprised to see Meth-Whore Barbie missed out. When I saw her on telly screaming about how she hates animals I thought she’d be fighting off the party list offers with a shitty stick.

  14. uke 14

    Incredible, this is currently one of the top headlines on NACT PR webs—… er, sorry, Stuff:

    Peter Jackson heads John Key on Googled list

    John Key is one of our most popular prime ministers ever. It seems nothing Labour throws at him can stick. But even he can’t beat Peter Jackson when it comes to the popularity contest that is Google.

    Figures show that in the last three years Key was well above Goff in terms of Google searches by name.

    • Campbell Larsen 14.1

      Hah, he was searched because people didn’t know who this Prime Mincer of newsland, robber baron, cheap wannabe comedian, agent of the NWO, buddy of Obama, John ‘Keys’ really is….

      It was most probably people looking for overweight camp male catwalk models, with a greedy streak and an overinflated sense of self worth coupled with a deep and insatiable need for recognition and public affirmation – I’ve heard that that particular combo is harder to find and more popular than you would think.

      For all you people with fingers poised above the search keys – you don’t need google to find out what this prick is like – just come to New Zealand, swim in our rivers of effluent and see the faces of the people whose lives he has touched (hint: you won’t see them at the RWC – begging is to be made an offense just in time for the big game)

  15. Jum 15

    The Hollow Men is on Maori TV tonight at 8.30. Watch it and weep for our future.

    Thanks Maori TV for screening it.

    • R 15.1

      …and thanks Jum for highlighting the fact it was on. I am glad not to have missed it, I don’t usually watch TV so thanks for the heads-up (and I know I should have seen it back then, but they were on their way out back then). Very timely to see the young Key so enthusiastically lying, and to observe the groups formed during the Brash/English takeover.

      concur, thanks Maori TV. I really hope others watched, especially blind Key-followers.

  16. Georgecom 16

    Congratulations to Hillary Calvert for being, er, dropped from the ACT party list. Don Brash richly rewarded Clavert for her support during his putsch by cutting her out of the top 10 on the ACT list. Doesn’t say much for Brash and his commitment to reward loyalty. His purchase of the ACT Party was bad enough however, sorry Hillary, his project for take over of the party and stacking it with his mates is total. If that means you are a casualty then that is expedient for Brash.

    And the ACT Party, man, you have to be white male and old to be at the top. Anyone not old, male and white need not apply. “Young” Don Nicholson is the youthful face of ACT. The only other party with such a similar homogeneous list of candidates is the Maroi Party and they are clear about who their support base is and even they have women at the top.

  17. Draco T Bastard 17

    What’s in a Domain Name?

    Handling the profusion of names and TLDs is a relatively simple problem for a computer, even though it will require extra work to redirect hundreds of new names (when someone types them in) back to the same old Web site. It will also create lots of work for lawyers, marketers of search-engine optimization, registries, and registrars.

    All of this will create jobs, but little extra value. To me, useless jobs are, well, useless. And, while redundant domain names are not evil, I do think that they are a waste of resources.

    Don’t you just love the competitive free-market? It keeps costing more and more and more.

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