Open mike 28/10/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 28th, 2015 - 65 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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65 comments on “Open mike 28/10/2015 ”

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  1. amirite 1
    28 October 2015 at 7:17 am

    Dirty Politics players are retaliating – Nicky Hager may face criminal charges over accepting the hacked material.
    This is sure to have a chilling effect among journalists and it’s an symptomatic of how New Zealand treats its investigative journalists – as criminals.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11535914

    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.1
      28 October 2015 at 8:18 am

      “INTERNATIONAL PRINCIPLES FOR WHISTLEBLOWER LEGISLATION”
      “The right of citizens to report wrongdoing is a natural extension of the
      right of freedom of expression, and is linked to the principles of
      transparency and integrity. All people have the inherent right to protect
      the well-being of other citizens and society at large, and in some cases
      they have the duty to report wrongdoing. The absence of effective
      protection can therefore pose a dilemma for whistleblowers: they are
      often expected to report corruption and other crimes, but doing so can
      expose them to retaliation.”
      file:///C:/Users/Di/Downloads/2013_WhistleblowerPrinciples_EN.pdf

      “A treason investigation into two journalists who reported that the German state planned to increase online surveillance has been suspended by the country’s prosecutor general following protests by leading voices across politics and media.”
      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/germany-halts-treason-inquiry-journalists-surveillance-protests

      It is time for us to let the powers-that-be know that we will stand beside our principled whistleblowers. Those who attack whistleblowers are hiding either illegal or at the least shoddy, despicable, unethical and underhand actions which are in the public interest as they can influence the public’s political voting decisions.

      Has Slater been threatened with arrest?

      • Manuka AOR 1.1.1
        28 October 2015 at 9:01 am

        “It is time for us to let the powers-that-be know that we will stand beside our principled whistleblowers.”
        100%.

        • Manuka AOR 1.1.1.1
          28 October 2015 at 9:14 am

          One person in my family banks with Westpac. I am asking him to close that account.

          • ianmac 1.1.1.2.1
            28 October 2015 at 10:12 am

            Whistleblowers become criminals in the eyes of Government.
            Key often says that his Government is the most open/transparent ever. Really?
            If the contents of Nicky’s book becomes stolen property then they will be able to call for prison.
            The intent from Government/Police is at least to make Nick’s life and that of other journalists, miserable/stressful.

          • weston 1.1.1.2.2
            28 October 2015 at 8:20 pm

            unwatchable unless you an american patriot bullshit consumer

            • The Chairman 1.1.1.2.2.1
              28 October 2015 at 8:32 pm

              It’s unfortunate you perceive it that way. Most others comprehend its global relevance and importance.

              • weston …
                28 October 2015 at 8:44 pm

                theres some relevance i guess but in the light of more up to date stuff on the same topic it just seems lame and the whistleblowers featured i think would make snowden or assange or manning etc cringe with embarresment for them plus the stirring music in the background gives me the shits also

      • Anne 1.1.2
        28 October 2015 at 9:40 am

        How do we let them know as individuals? Who do we write to? My beef is the inordinate amount of time and energy the police are putting into the case and yet they have taken no cognisance of the wrong doing of the people Hager was writing about.

        Has Slater been threatened with arrest?

        We know he hasn’t. We know the police are dragging their heels on the complaints laid against him. We know they will do everything in their power to NOT have to prosecute him except for some tiddly little transgression that carries a fine of about $1000. I also suspect they are acting on behalf of the “Prime Ministers Office”.

        • Manuka AOR 1.1.2.1
          28 October 2015 at 9:52 am

          “and yet they have taken no cognisance of the conduct (both illegal and amoral) of the people Hager was writing about. “

          Exactly. And corruption, like rust, never sleeps. It needs to be cleaned out now, while this is still possible.

    • weka 1.2
      28 October 2015 at 10:05 am

      Ropata put this up in Daily Review last night. It’s a press release from Hager’s lawyer about the Westpac issue. Important reading regarding the privacy issues, the police refusing to hand over information via Privacy Act and OIA requests etc, and where Hager is at with it all.

      https://t.co/ymrbXmPDaL

      pic.twitter.com/dHVCdqAMTu

      It’s a PDF so I can’t cut and past but perhaps one of the authors might like to put it up as a Notices and Features post?

      • veutoviper 1.2.2
        28 October 2015 at 11:32 am

        This is the best version – http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=83096

        Tracey and I posted various links/comments on this yesterday afternoon on the “Angry with Westpac” post – see 10 and thereabouts.

        This morning Tracey has also posted some good responses to various comments throughout the discussion under that post on the Privacy Act provisions you may wish to check out.

        If you are game to see what ‘the other side’ are saying, a certain Dunedin-based blog has several posts on this subject, and WO has now broken his silence with a couple of posts this morning – and Spanish Bride is apparently releasing a post at 1.30pm. Sorry, I will not provide links to those blogs, but I check them from time to time via Donotlink to see what is going on there.

        From Twitter this morning, TVNZ (Katie Bradford) are also doing further follow-up on the Westpac situation and there is high interest/concern by journalists on the implications for them of the bank’s action; and the Supreme Court decision last week on the status of computer records etc as property.

        • veutoviper 1.2.2.1
          28 October 2015 at 11:56 am

          And for a little bit of humour (we all need a laugh) – Westpac’s new fleet of mobile offices

          https://twitter.com/SirWB/status/657700721584939009

        • Tracey 1.2.2.2
          28 October 2015 at 12:24 pm

          taken them quite a few days to coordinate the “best” response. Perhaps Cameron is now engaged by Westpac, and once he starts his meme they will finally release something?

          • veutoviper 1.2.2.2.1
            28 October 2015 at 1:08 pm

            I assume you mean WO re “‘taken them…”. I doubt that there is any connection between WO and Westpac.

            From my quick read, the posts did not mention Westpac per se. They relate to CS’ outrage at people being concerned at Hager’s privacy being breached when HE is the REAL victim of privacy breach by Rawshark, Hager, and all those journalists (a whole list of them named) and others who have written about the Rawshark releases, Dirty Politics book etc etc ., or rather had or have his property. [Obviously linking to the SC decision last week.]

            Oh the irony considering how many peoples’ privacy WO has breached over the years.

            Damn it – here is a quote from one of the posts

            Charge him, and every other person or group who had or still has my data.

            That means the NZ Herald, David Fisher, Matt Nippert, John Campbell, Mediaworks and Fairfax….there are a few others as well that I can think of who handled my property, including some bloggers and political party operatives who have admitted that they were involved in handling my property. The NZ Herald refused to give my data back, as did other media organisations. They might like to revisit that decision, and pretty quickly. One journalist in particular has been boasting all over town how he has enough of my property to write a story a week for years…he might want to consider returning my property. The journalists who ran Whaledump might like to think about that too.

            They are all at risk, and not just from criminal prosecution, but from civil action.

            The key here is those who worked with the hacker/s or closely with the team working with the hacker/s. They are now vulnerable.

            Journalists shouldn’t break the law to get a story. Perhaps they need a chilling and salient lesson in that regard.

            The early part of the post is a reprint of most of Fisher’s Herald post today – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11535914

            Him’ in the first sentence means Hager.

            Some interesting claims in the second para – eg “… some bloggers and political party operatives who have admitted …” and “The journalists who ran Whaledump …”.

            • Tracey 1.2.2.2.1.1
              28 October 2015 at 1:26 pm

              I meant he will work for anyone 😉

              Poor poor Slater, always the victim. I guess that’s why he is the only person to get an apology from our PM?

              • Anne …
                28 October 2015 at 4:32 pm

                I’ve got news for W.O. If Hager is prosecuted for receiving stolen property then he can expect a police complaint to be laid against him for “receiving stolen property belonging to the Labour Party.” The fact that their computers turned out not to be as fully secure as they thought is neither here nor there.

                They still stole the property!

  2. Morrissey 2
    28 October 2015 at 7:19 am

    “Oh my God! Professor Christine Fair, what HAPPENED to you?”
    [angrily sobbing] “Those BASTARDS put me up against Glenn Greenwald.” (sniff).

    The greatest intellectual and moral mismatch since that stammering pseud Norman Mailer thought he’d take a shot at Gore Vidal….

    UpFront – Do drone strikes create more terrorists than they kill?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXPWbFyhK0

    • ianmac 2.1
      28 October 2015 at 9:40 am

      What a pity that they don’t have a microphone switch off like the Speaker has in Question Time.
      Trying to imagine how say Rangiora would react should an Australian drone be used to take out a militant but also take out 75 other men women and children? The survivors might just be a bit miffed.

    • Once was Tim 2.2
      28 October 2015 at 9:47 am

      I almost felt embarrassed for her when watching it. (Almost, then I kicked myself)

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      28 October 2015 at 11:06 am

      Because “NUANCE”

  3. ianmac 3
    28 October 2015 at 10:27 am

    A relative asked me yesterday why was I so against the Key Government but I couldn’t think of a succinct list of damage done by them.
    Anyone help make a list suitable to persuade someone who is puzzled about anti Key sentiment in her locality?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1
      28 October 2015 at 10:38 am

      Notional Standards.
      Charter Schools.
      Human rights.
      The rule of law.
      Child poverty.
      Infant morbidity.
      Inequality.
      Privatisation.
      Two tier healthcare.
      Lies about all of the above.
      Dirty Politics.

    • Red Blooded 3.2
      28 October 2015 at 10:49 am

      Billion dollar debt.
      Assets sold.

      • ianmac 3.2.1
        28 October 2015 at 11:12 am

        Thanks One and Red. I will adapt your ideas and have them ready at hand. I had suggested that this Government is creeping legislation a bit at a time so that we don’t notice the changes as much as we did with for example the Mother of All Budgets.
        Gentle Erosion is taking place rather than an avalanche.

        • tc 3.2.1.1
          28 October 2015 at 12:02 pm

          Rejecting: healthy homes, feeding kids in schools, safer workplaces, engineering capability (Hillside closure), adequate health funding (25% under across the board now) etc

          Closing more Km’s of rail than occured under privatisation, Gisborne a good example of that ‘don’t give a F about rail’ atitude whilst RONS and holiday highways siphon money from elsewhere.

          Admitting they game the OIA etc etc

          • Gangnam Style 3.2.1.1.1
            29 October 2015 at 6:20 am

            See the guy who bought Hillside has to lay off workers because they have no work, & so it goes.

    • infused 3.3
      28 October 2015 at 11:05 am

      That just shows how much of a sheep you are.

    • Psycho Milt 3.4
      28 October 2015 at 2:15 pm

      To add to the above, my personal pet hates:

      1. Key’s government is increasing state control over universities and polytechs (by scrapping staff/student/community representatives and replacing them with government appointees).

      2. It’s butchering public-sector scientific research (via funding cuts, political appointees and restructuring).

      3. It’s undermining wage/salary-earners’ ability to maintain or improve their pay and conditions (via zero-hours contracts, trial periods and putting collective contracts at the whim of the employer).

  4. Chooky 4
    28 October 2015 at 11:40 am

    ‘We are deeply disturbed’: 343 British academics vow to boycott Israeli universities’

    https://www.rt.com/uk/319837-British-boycott-Israel-universities/

    “Over 300 scholars from UK institutions have signed a letter vowing to boycott Israeli universities, citing Tel Aviv’s “illegal occupation” of Palestinian land and “human rights violations.” The move has drawn criticism from Jewish organizations and diplomats.
    The letter, signed by 343 academics, appeared as a full-page ad in Tuesday’s Guardian newspaper.

    “As scholars associated with British universities, we are deeply disturbed by Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian land, the intolerable human rights violations that it inflicts on all sections of the Palestinian people, and its apparent determination to resist any feasible settlement,” it reads…

  5. Chooky 5
    28 October 2015 at 11:49 am

    ‘EU Parliament rejects amendments protecting net neutrality’

    https://www.rt.com/news/319847-eu-parliament-net-neutrality/

    “European Parliament has voted for a package of EU internet traffic regulations, rejecting all amendments on net neutrality. The move was slammed by activists and companies alike, who say it will allow some to have faster internet access than others.

    Opponents also say the move will stifle growth, as not all network traffic will be treated equally. They believe the rules will create “fast lanes” for so-called “specialized services with quality requirements.” This would subsequently mean network owners would be able to offer zero rated services and offer net neutrality exceptions…

    …The founder of the worldwide web Sir Tim Berners-Lee was against the move. Speaking before the vote took place, he said: “If adopted as currently written, these rules will threaten innovation, free speech and privacy, and compromise Europe’s ability to lead in the digital economy.”

    A number of tech companies signed a letter against the proposals, including Kickstater, Vimeo, BirTorrent and Netflix.

    “These problems jeopardize the future of the startup innovation and economic growth in the EU. They also create barriers for US startups and businesses seeking to enter the EU market,” the letter read. “We believe that the future of the open Internet in Europe is at stake and urgent action is warranted.”

    • Kiwiri 5.1
      28 October 2015 at 1:42 pm

      ‘Tis becoming increasingly obvious now, all over the world, that the so-called elected representatives no longer govern and legislate for the people, but against the people.

  6. Draco T Bastard 6
    28 October 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Dita DeBoni: Privacy right is not a right when not ‘right’

    Again, you may think Nicky Hager deserved the treatment he’s had. You may not agree with him in general.

    But remember that whatever treatment’s been handed out to him can be handed out to anyone with the ‘wrong’ connections, the ‘wrong’ information, and the ‘wrong’ intentions.

    Privacy increasingly seems to be only your right if you are on the ‘right’ side.

    What we’re seeing in the Hager case is what we’d expect to see in a police state when the government acts to hide its actions.

    • ianmac 6.1
      28 October 2015 at 2:12 pm

      In that video posted by The Chairman above, they point out that if “information” is leaked by politicians, and it is, then they regard that as OK.
      If the same sort of “information” is leaked by a whistleblower, then it is all bad and the full weight of the Government will set out to destroy you and your credibility. For example in NZ, Jon Stephenson and Nicky Hager.

      • alwyn 6.1.1
        28 October 2015 at 6:52 pm

        It is hardly a new thing, is it, that politicians regard themselves as exempt from the rules that apply to mere mortals.
        After all, it was spelt out most succinctly by a former New Zealand Prime Minister who smeared a Police Commissioner.
        “By definition I cannot leak” she averred.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/blogs/on-the-house/3470774/The-Governments-own-leaky-home-saga
        Every Government follows the same set of rules. To try and pretend that our current Government is somehow uniquely at fault is to fool yourself. Repeat 100 times. “They all do it, and it is never right just because you approve of the particular lot concerned”

  7. Tracey 7
    28 October 2015 at 12:26 pm

    “Fifteen of the biggest players in the $14 trillion market for credit insurance are also the referees.

    Firms such as JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs wrote the rules, are the dominant buyers and sellers and, ultimately, help decide winners and losers.

    Has a country such as Argentina paid what it owes? Has a company like Caesars Entertainment Corp. kept up with its bills? When the question comes up, the 15 firms meet on a conference call to decide whether a default has triggered a payout of the bond insurance, called a credit-default swap. Investors use CDS to protect themselves from missed debt payments or profit from them.

    Once the 15 firms decide that a default has taken place, they effectively determine how much money will change hands.

    And now, seven years after the financial crisis first brought CDS to widespread attention, pressure is growing inside and outside what’s called the determinations committee to tackle conflicts of interest, according to interviews with three dozen people with direct knowledge of the panel’s functioning who asked that their names not be used.

    Scandals that exposed how bank traders rigged key interest rates and fixed currency values have given ammunition to those who say CDS may also be susceptible to collusion or, worse, outright manipulation.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11536192

  8. Tautoko Mangō Mata 8
    28 October 2015 at 1:12 pm

    Joseph Stiglitz: “Under TPP, Polluters Could Sue U.S. for Setting Carbon Emissions Limits”
    “We know we’re going to need regulations to restrict the emissions of carbon,” Stiglitz said. “But under these provisions, corporations can sue the government, including the American government, by the way, so it’s all the governments in the TPP can be sued for the loss of profits as a result of the regulations that restrict their ability to emit carbon emissions that lead to global warming.”

    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/27/joseph_stiglitz_under_tpp_polluters_could

    • Manuka AOR 8.1
      28 October 2015 at 2:31 pm

      Transcript excerpt: “In other words, the view is, they have the right to kill people, and if you want to take away that right, you have to pay them not to kill.” Joseph Stiglitz – Nobel Prize-winning economist and Columbia University professor.

    • The Chairman 8.2
      28 October 2015 at 5:22 pm

      I recommend watching the rest of the interview.

      Stiglitz talks about his new book: Rewriting the Rules of the American Economy: An Agenda for Growth and Shared Prosperity.

      In doing so, he explains the neo-liberal change of the eighty’s, its flaws (hence the need to rewrite the rules) and how that flawed structure is being locked in by the TPP.

  9. Kiwiri 9
    28 October 2015 at 1:32 pm

    Ex-PM Abbott, the suppository of knowledge, continues his anus horribilis by giving the second anal Margaret Thatcher Lecture:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/73441527/Tony-Abbott-urges-Europe-to-adopt-boat-turnbacks-in-response-to-refugee-crisis

    to edit typos.

  10. esoteric pineapples 10
    28 October 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Good interview for anyone interested in what is happening in Guatemala – http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/27/with_military_backing_tv_comedian_wins

  11. Penny Bright 11
    28 October 2015 at 8:03 pm

    FYI – I’ve been granted speaking rights at the Auckland Council Governing Body meeting to be held tomorrow, Thursday 29 October 2015, at the Auckland Town Hall, 9.30am.

    Seems that some members of the Local Government and Environment Select Committee, agree that it would be helpful to have a cost-benefit analysis of the Auckland ‘Supercity’ amalgamation?

    “Your request for public input at the 29 October 2015 Governing Body meeting has been approved.

    You have been allocated five minutes in the public input section of the meeting, commencing at 9.30am, in the Reception Lounge, Auckland Town Hall, to speak regarding the need for a ‘cost-benefit’ analysis of the Auckland Council amalgamation, and the Local Government and Environment Select Committee Report on Petition 2014/0009 of Penelope Mary Bright and 43 Others.
    …..”
    ____________________________________________________

    The above-mentioned Local Government and Environment Select Committee Report on Petition 2014/0009 of Penelope Mary Bright and 43 Others :

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/documents/reports/51DBSCH_SCR66460_1/petition-20140009-of-penelope-mary-bright-and-43-others

    “Recommendation

    The Local Government and Environment Committee has considered Petition 2014/9 of Penelope Mary Bright and 43 others and recommends that the House take note of its report.

    The petition requests

    That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into the alleged failure of the current Local Government Commissioners, to carry out the necessary ‘due diligence’ in order to comply with their statutory duties under the Local Government Act 2002, before formulating the ‘Draft Wellington Reorganisation Proposal’.

    …..

    Petitioner’s concerns

    In 2009 one regional and seven territorial authorities were amalgamated to create the Auckland “super city”.

    The petitioner told us she was opposed to the Auckland amalgamation from its inception, and questioned its reasoning.

    Because of her interest in local government reorganisation, the petitioner decided to become involved in the draft Wellington reorganisation proposal when it was released.

    The petitioner is critical that the commission released its draft Wellington proposal before it

     provided statistical data on Wellington’s nine local councils’ costs of services and regulatory functions, on which future costs could be measured

     acquired statistics illustrating the predicted efficiencies resulting from Auckland’s amalgamation.
    …….”

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    • Chooky 11.1
      28 October 2015 at 9:04 pm

      +100 Penny…Auckland amalgamation of councils is a mess and open to corruption…not a model to be emulated in Wellington or anywhere else imo

  12. Chooky 12
    28 October 2015 at 9:00 pm

    Round table discussion/debate on Syrian situation today:

    ‘Syrian turning point?’

    https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/319922-syria-civil-war-regime/

    “How has Russia’s stepped-up role in Syria changed the politics of the country’s civil war and the regime? Washington acknowledges Russia’s bombing campaign at the request of Damascus, but still does not accept it. Is this because Washington does not practice diplomacy anymore?

    CrossTalking with James Jatras, Sukant Chandan, and Mary Dejevsky.”

  13. Logie97 13
    28 October 2015 at 10:50 pm

    Just an observation from afar.
    Has anyone else noticed the casual photo-ops that the PM likes to have.

    An heir apparent.
    Morning commercial radio hosts.
    Rugby player dressing rooms.

    Can he or does he identify/socialise with people his own age?

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