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Open Mike 28/12/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 28th, 2016 - 97 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

97 comments on “Open Mike 28/12/2016 ”

  1. garibaldi 1

    Reading through yesterdays thread on Israel made me reflect on how fortuitous it was for the Jews, when they wrote the first testament, that god happened to be on their side and made them special.

    • DH 1.1

      If you want to know why the Jews of Israel act as they do it’s because they hear the voices of people like you and understand the old hatred is still infesting humanity.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1

        You seem confused, DH. But do explain for the rest of us how it is that you are a supporter of Israel’s criminal annexation of the West Bank and its repeated mass slaughters of the imprisoned population of Gaza.

      • marty mars 1.1.2

        + 1 DH – the hatred is still as ugly as it ever was

        • Morrissey 1.1.2.1

          And you are as ill informed as ever. You really are making a fool of yourself, marty.

          Still, anything for a bit of spiteful one-upmanship, huh? Even at the risk of permanent damage to your credibility.

        • DH 1.1.2.2

          I’ve never been able to understand it marty, I just can’t see what drives such virulent malice and animosity.

          A lot of people seem like Jekyll & Hyde. They’re calm, rational, everyday people until the subject of Jews comes up and they’re off foaming at the mouth.

          • Morrissey 1.1.2.2.1

            See, marty, you’re backing up someone who equates the criminal state of Israel with “the Jews”.

            That’s dumb, really dumb. You need to make some sort of a statement to show that you aren’t as simple-minded and credulous as that twit “DH”.

            • marty mars 1.1.2.2.1.1

              I certainly can see why you won ‘the most boring repetative, myopic letter writer of the year’ 3 years in a row on RNZ’s Kim hill program.

              Not everyone has to agree with your stupid view of the world. Just post your stuff and stop trying to puff yourself up into someone you definately are not.

              As for your insults – watch out morrie or you’ll feel my wraith ☺

              • Morrissey

                Our good friend marty mars writes:

                I certainly can see why you won ‘the most boring repetative, myopic letter writer of the year’ 3 years in a row on RNZ’s Kim hill program.

                I did? When was that announced?

                Not everyone has to agree with your stupid view of the world. Just post your stuff and stop trying to puff yourself up into someone you definately are not.

                Would it be churlish of this writer, i.e., moi, to point out that the word “definitely” has been mis-spelled?

                As for your insults – watch out morrie or you’ll feel my wraith

                Thanks for the warning about your wraith, marty.

                • All you’ve got is… nothing, as usual, ho hum…

                  • Morrissey

                    Gosh, a lighthearted, conciliatory response is met with your trademark dumb hostility.

                    I don’t like to point out the obvious, but your graceless truculence forces me to, I’m afraid: you are out of your depth, my friend. Withdraw now, while you have some self-respect left. We can forgive you for your foolish backing of a numbskull like “DH”, but your lack of good humour added to your snarling defiance of normal etiquette is less easy to indulge.

                    Think carefully, marty.

                    • I love how you use many syllables to disguise your well worn track of a mind, so stacked with insecurity, and self doubt. This is common in those who are labelled bully and those filled with self importance. You’d do better to sit a bit and really think about your motivations because as transparent as they are to others, their truth seems to have eluded you. I offer that to you for 3 reasons: 1. so you’ll leave me alone, 2. so you may grow and become a much more effective communicator and 3. so you may have some insight into your own rationale. Don’t be a bully and insult me again because it really makes you look like an insolent fool.

                    • Morrissey

                      I love how you use many syllables to disguise your well worn track of a mind, so stacked with insecurity, and self doubt. This is common in those who are labelled bully and those filled with self importance.

                      This indignant jag of yours over the last few weeks stems from a mild rebuke I administered to you over your foolish decision to uncritically cut and paste a Time article which suggested President Obama was superior morally to Russia’s president. To challenge the unexamined assumptions behind someone’s posts is not bullying, it’s simply what’s done on the internet—that is, if you’re serious, and comfortable about being involved in rigorous debate. It’s clear that you don’t have the slightest idea of what bullying is, and you’re used to wheeling out such accusations as a way of stymying criticism of you or your methods.

                      You’d do better to sit a bit and really think about your motivations because as transparent as they are to others,

                      Oh? Please feel free to elucidate.

                      ….their truth seems to have eluded you. I offer that to you for 3 reasons: 1. so you’ll leave me alone,

                      No chance of that. If you continue to write foolish and even depraved things, you must expect to be challenged. And all your posing as a victim will cut no ice with anybody.

                    • DH

                      He’s given you good advice Morrissey, you should heed it.

                      You act like an over-bearing bully, the weak minded might be impressed by your self-important posturing but I can’t see anyone else getting excited over it.

                    • In Vino

                      ‘Inebriated by the exuberance of their own verbosity’ is a phrase that comes to mind for you two. DH may be deluded, but at least he keeps it brief.

              • greywarshark

                marty mars
                You haven’t a ghost of a chance of putting off Morrisey, or finding some state of reasonable argument either, not your style is it.

    • Morrissey 1.2

      garibaldi, the scofflaw Israeli state is NOT “the Jews” any more than Boko Haram is “the Africans” or the Ku Klux Klan is “the Gentiles”.

      You are aware, I take it, of the many brave and principled Israeli citizens who stand with the Palestinians against the aggression of the Israeli state? Journalists like Gideon Levy and Amira Hass; academics like Ilan Pappé and Yael Lotan; the thousands of young Israelis who refuse to participate in the IDF’s brutal regime of illegal checkpoints and constant harassment of Palestinians; organizations like B’Tselem, Jews for Justice for Palestinians, and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.

      Some of the most compelling witness to Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians comes from those who were once involved in perpetrating those crimes….
      http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

      • garibaldi 1.2.2

        Yes Morrissey, I am aware of these things. My post was more tongue in cheek to see what it elicited.
        IMO the subject of ” Israel ” brings out greater divisiveness than any other topic.
        Personally I object most strongly to what the World allows the Israeli State to get away with. Their arrogance is beyond belief. Their behaviour is appalling.

        • marty mars 1.2.2.1

          “My post was more tongue in cheek to see what it elicited.”

          Why bother stoking the fires of hate – what buzz do you get out of that?

          • garibaldi 1.2.2.1.1

            I thought the aim was to discuss things marty mars. Why does this subject have to be taboo? Why are the pro Israeli people so insensitive to the cruelty of their behaviour? Their insecurity is not a reason to be so inhumane.

            • marty mars 1.2.2.1.1.1

              sure – do you not see that

              “My post was more tongue in cheek to see what it elicited”

              and

              “I thought the aim was to discuss things ”

              are not the same things?

              but whatever – it is post truth after all.

              • Morrissey

                whatever – it is post truth after all.

                It certainly is with you, unfortunately, as evidenced by your inability to discern crude pro-state propaganda in Time magazine.

                  • In Vino

                    I am happy to agree with Garibaldi about the bias and non-divine nature of the first testament. Is that what really bugs some of you?
                    Is it belief in the bible that sets off such unreasoned acrimony?

                    • don’t know what you mean tbh – I’m not a christian so I don’t believe any of the bible or any of the other religions specific teachings that formed in the ‘middle east’ sorry. Of course the universal morality of don’t kill or hurt others and so forth I wholeheartedly agree with.

                    • In Vino

                      Fair enough. It just surprises me that any discussion of Israeli policy arouses such a firestorm. Is it some kind of policy? Looking at Netanyahu’s reactive rants, I wonder if there is a kind of forward aggression policy. Flame the emotions and thereby darken the debate. All participants seem to be drawn in.

                    • I put it into the “unless you are there you don’t know” and “even if you are there you don’t know other than what you have been taught or what fits with preconceived views” category, along with most of the middle east and pretty well anywhere else too for that matter. My views have been influenced by Israeli people I love, my natural hatred of the disgusting and particular injustices the Palestinian people have suffered, and all of the other suffering peoples of that region have endured, my horror at indiscriminate killing to further causes, and overbearingly destructive responses to provocation. My belief in fairness and equality and the suffering, always the suffering of the oppressed and those ‘considered inferior’.

                      who do I support – everyone

                      who do I hate – no one

                      what do I know – nothing

                      what do I want – peace and an end to the killing and waste of human life – FFS it is just about 2017 and still stupid disgusting humans think killing is some answer – I spit on all who think that.

                    • In Vino

                      Cool. You may be closer to Morrissey than you think – I don’t see him as a keen killer either.
                      Certain things seem to trigger big reactions in people.
                      I like what you like/don’t like. (Last 4 items of your last message.)

                    • DH

                      And there you go marty mars, his lordship has deemed you worthy. You may kiss his feet now.

                    • under my terms though DH and I don’t kiss feet – tops of heads if I’m feeling benevolent, after all I’m not a monster

                    • @ in vino

                      morrie is just having a bad hair day – probably just lonely like many at this time of year.

                    • DH

                      Fair ’nuff.

                      To my mind this site has been going a bit downhill lately, been a few too many chest beaters for my liking.

                    • best advice anyone ever gave me on here was to hang up the mouse and take a break from the site – sure maybe not as stimulating conversation wise but really good for perspective and to rebuild energy for the big year ahead.

                      I do get what you mean though – the ego, the ego and imo the warped thinking – whew – it blows me away sometimes, how distorted from my reality some people are – I would NEVER hang anywhere near them – yet they pop up here. The hardest for me is when a commenter I quite like writes some utter bullshit – so hard for me to respect them much after that.

                    • DH

                      Good advice, thanks… might be a good idea 😉

                      Some people seem to be permanently angry, or have a chip on their shoulder, and it can get a bit depressing seeing that all the time. I don’t like fighting but I don’t like bullies either, everyone needs to ease up a little IMO.

  2. Carolyn_nth 2

    A maximum of a 6 hour working day for all, 5 days a week sounds good.

    But there’s nothing about how much the lowest paid will earn in such a system. I think the idea of a shorter working week (limiting wage slavery) would be a good thing if everyone also got a living wage/income.

    The article mentions flexible hours, also. But that doesn’t seem so easily organised for people on the frontline dealing with customers or members of the public.

    • mauī 2.1

      I can see the Tui ad now,

      Capitalism has decided you only need to work 30, maybe 25 hours a week.

      Yeah fucking right!

    • james 2.2

      Plenty of people work flexible hours, less hours etc rather happily. They generally have skills that allow them to do this. If you do not have the skills, then sadly you have to work more hours for less $.

      Someone has to pay for it – and there simply isnt enough money to do so. Heck there is a poster on here who wants to pay a living wage, but cannot. How the hell could they pay the living wage, and have to do with either less hours from staff, or having to spend more to get another person to make up the hours. Businesses will go broke.

      • JanM 2.2.1

        If a business is not in a position to pay a ‘living wage’ to their staff (think about what that means – said staff can afford a roof over their heads, clothes and food) then in my opinion they are essentially trading insolvent and need to adapt or fold

        • Carolyn_nth 2.2.1.1

          I agree with that. Although, I think the rise of big corporate dominance has sucked the livelihoods from many small businesses: eg shopping malls, supermarkets, (international) chains, etc, compared with a small retail outlet on the high street.

          We need a system that reins in the big corporations, and makes things easier for smaller businesses.

      • mauī 2.2.2

        Yeah because if you have “no skills”, like you’re a carer or a forestry worker or something you should get paid peanuts and probably go back to school and “upskill” to get a pointless qualification that proves you can do what you already do. While if you can sit at a desk and use phone and email, then you’re “highly skilled” and should enjoy all the benefits 🙄

        • Red 2.2.2.1

          Your comment displays your ignorance Maui, if that’s all you do in your office I can put your little mind at rest and ensure you as an office admin worker you are paid not much more than min wage

          • mauī 2.2.2.1.1

            Oh yes, and it’s the poor office workers that commute in from Mangere, Flaxmere and Highbury every day too I’m guessing. I don’t think so.

      • Carolyn_nth 2.2.3

        and there simply isnt enough money to do so

        Actually, I think there is. The current system is resulting in some people with an income much higher than they need, while others cannot earn enough for a warm, safe place to live + utilities and food bills, etc.

        Generally, people don’t get paid so much for the skills they have, but for what they can get an employer to pay them. There is something very wrong with the system.

        A study in Sweden showed that nurses were more productive, and took less sick leave when doing a 6 hour day, compared with a control group working longer hours at a similar workplace.

        It can cost the employer more to employ more people – some of that is re-couped through paying less sick leave and increased productivity.

        But the social cost of people working longer hours, while others cannot get enough work, is a big drag on society, the economy and public funds.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.4

        Someone has to pay for it – and there simply isnt enough money to do so.

        1. There is enough money but too much is going to the bludging shareholders and CEOs
        2. It’s the poor that pay for everything especially the rich to be rich

      • b waghorn 2.2.5

        ‘there isn’t enough money’ best joke of the year , there is heaps of money , but you know some people feel they need three houses millions in the bank etc ,

        • GregJ 2.2.5.1

          Yep – New Zealands Gross Domestic Product per capita when adjusted by purchasing power parity (PPP) is recorded at US$34762.35 (approx $NZ50,000) in 2015. That is equivalent to 196 percent of the world’s average.

  3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

    If the weather turns rainy, here are some good viewing links.
    1. Interview with Adam Curtis on his latest doco “HyperNormalisation”.
    Start in at about 8 min to miss chit-chat.

    2. Actual doco “Hypernormalisation” 2 hr 40min

  4. tinfoilhat 4

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11773726

    ‘”Owner and skipper Jim Delegat praised his sons Nikolas, 19, and James, 18, who were among the crew of 14.

    “This type of yachting is a boyhood dream come true,” Jim said after pulling into Hobart’s Constitution Dock.

    “(James is) quite an experienced sailor for his age and he’s fearless. They’re very fearless and talented young men.”‘

    ..No daddy Delegat..at least one of your sons is a violent bully, a coward and a snivelling cur.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84151321/It-nearly-destroyed-her-life-rich-listers-son-told-after-punching-female-police-officer

  5. McGrath 5

    I’m beginning to wonder if Cameron Slater may have “jumped the shark” and condemned his blog. Declaring that there is now no way he’ll support National is just dumb given that he regularly puts out donation requests to his primarily National support base. The resolution against Israel (which I support BTW) has put him into apoplexy. I’m a right leaning voter who views Israel as part of the problem, and I’m not the only one with this view among my many right-leaning friends. In short: I wouldn’t be surprised if WO dies in 2017

  6. Fisiani 6

    I hear that Grant Robertson is hosting a BBQ this weekend. Should be interesting.

    • Morrissey 6.1

      It’ll certainly be a lot more fun than being with the glums still hurtin’ after the Mt Roskill landslide and the quicksmart desertion of their leader a day later!

  7. Draco T Bastard 7

    Legendary Star Wars Actress Carrie Fisher Dead at 60

    Star Wars actress Carrie Fisher has died at the age of 60, just days after she suffered a heart attack on a flight from London to Los Angeles, People reports. “It is with a very deep sadness that Billie Lourd confirms that her beloved mother Carrie Fisher passed away at 8:55 this morning,” family spokesman Simon Halls said in a statement. “She was loved by the world and she will be missed profoundly. Our entire family thanks you for your thoughts and prayers.”

  8. Morrissey 8

    Once again: Israeli military unlawfully shoots and
    kills Gazan protester and no-one will be held to account

    Published: 21 Dec 2016, by B’Tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

    At about 5:00 P.M. on 18 November 2016, soldiers shot and killed 25-year-old Muhammad Abu Sa’ed of Nuseirat Refugee Camp from a distance of some 15 meters. He was shot during the weekly protest near the Gaza perimeter fence, to the east of al-Bureij R.C.

    B’Tselem’s inquiries show that, like every Friday, a demonstration began at about 12:30 P.M. by the perimeter fence, east of al-Bureij R.C. At that time, there were several dozen protesters; two military jeeps were on the other side of the fence, and some eight soldiers were standing on an earth embankment nearby. By 2:00 P.M. more protesters had arrived, bringing their total number to some 300-400. Some, who were standing approximately 20 meters from the perimeter fence, carried Palestinian and Fatah flags. At that point, another military jeep arrived and another ten or so soldiers (male and female) joined the troops already on the scene. Some of the soldiers stood on an earth embankment situated some 10 meters east of the perimeter fence.

    Some of the demonstrators, who were a few meters from the perimeter fence, threw stones at the soldiers. According to eyewitness accounts, the soldiers fired live ammunition in the air and at demonstrators’ legs, and also fired tear-gas canisters. At about 4:00 P.M., most of the demonstrators moved about 150 meters to the south. Most of the soldiers followed suit, moving to an earth embankment and an asphalt road located roughly 100-150 south of where they had been, at a point about 10 meters east of the perimeter fence. The protesters and soldiers were more exposed to one another in this new location. Some of the protesters continued to throw stones at the soldiers, and eyewitnesses said the soldiers threw several red and green smoke grenades as well as stun grenades, while also continuing to fire live ammunition into the air and at the demonstrators’ legs.

    Shortly after 4:30 P.M., Abu Sa’ed and a few other demonstrators crossed over the barbed wire fence on the ground. They then went through an opening that had been breached in the perimeter fence, and threw stones at the 20 or so soldiers who were standing at a distance of 10-15 meters from them, on the earth embankment and on the asphalt road. …..

    Read more
    http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20161221_killing_of_muhammad_abu_saed

  9. Morrissey 9

    [deleted]

    Real men, indeed….

    http://deadspin.com/security-guard-appears-to-be-masturbating-near-cheerlea-1790317271

    [lprent: Gratuitous linkage. Link him with things that he actually does, rather than things that have nothing to do with him. He might be a young dickhead but that is something that we all have to grow out of. It is a condition and unchooseable as thr inability to pick parents.

    But what is your excuse? You could exercise better judgement before I have to notice such stupidity. ]

  10. Nick 10

    2017…..without ShonKey….. Excellent…… One less Bullshit artist

  11. Whispering Kate 11

    Have just listened to Radio NZ on Channel 50 midday, a short link came up about a serious child offender returned to jail for yet again breaching his terms of parole and Corrections are not seeking a Permanent Protection Order against him – this offender has a history of breaching his terms of parole repeatedly. He will be able to come up for parole once again and, yes, you guessed it, he will be allowed his freedom again.

    WTF is going on with Corrections. Scott Watson has come up for parole a few times now and because he won’t admit guilt for the Marlborough Sounds murders they say he is a danger to the community and continue to incarcerate him – something is smelling real bad with political interference and bad decision making in Corrections. I understood if you did the time you were released. He is over his minimum sentence now and should be given an opportunity out in the community. The serious sex offender has had many opportunities – I know who I would prefer to be released.

    • JanM 11.1

      I agree with you about the Scott Watson thing in particular. They won’t let people out who won’t confess – bizarre if you are, in fact, innocent! You’d think we’d have advanced a little from the days when witches were dunked in water – if they sank they were innocent and if they floated they were guilty. Either way dead 🙁

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      truly before her time.

      • Jenny 12.1.1

        Carrie Fisher’s breakout female action hero character, Leia, led to Sigourney Weaver’s Ripley,

        • adam 12.1.1.1

          It was her as a fighter for the rights of people with mental health that I truly loved her for.

          But yeah she seemed to open the door to thinking action women on screen, a nice change from the previous stereotypes.

  12. Draco T Bastard 13

    Time for truth on petrol prices – Nash

    “The MBIE information shows that margins are more than double they were 10 years ago and that we pay the highest out of every OECD country for our petrol before taxes. The only losers are good hard working Kiwis and the only winners are big oil companies.

    Although that is a concern the real problem is that we still pay too little for fossil fuels and that we’re not doing enough to improve public transport.

  13. Xanthe 14

    Internet party returns for 2017 elections ?
    https://t.co/RIo3FhNiGz

  14. Draco T Bastard 15

    US close to announcing measures to punish Russia for election interference

    The Obama administration is close to announcing a series of measures to punish Russia for its interference in the 2016 presidential election, including economic sanctions and diplomatic censure, according to U.S. officials.

    The administration is still finalizing the details, which are also expected to include covert action that likely will involve cyber operations, the officials said. An announcement on the public elements of the response could come as early as this week.

    So, does that mean that we can punish the US next time they engage in regime change?
    Actually, as this is retrospective, does that mean we can punish the US for all their interference in other nations over the last few centuries?

    • xanthe 15.1

      hmmm That looks like the herald is dabbeling in “fake news” there, I dont believe the US will do this. But anything is possible i suppose

  15. Good news

    “The non profit director whose controversial “ape in heels” comment about first lady Michelle Obama propelled a small West Virginia town into an embarrassing national spotlight has been fired from her job…

    … After Donald Trump’s election as president, Taylor took to social media to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House.”

    She added: “I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.””

    and as regular as clockwork we have

    “Taylor reportedly told WSAZ that the heated public response to her Facebook post had become a “hate crime against me,” saying that she and her children had received death threats. She said she was planning to file a lawsuit against people who had slandered or libelled her amid the uproar, according to the news station.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11773907

    Don’t know how many more of these there will be with trump in there – doubt anyone will get fired for racism that’s for sure.

  16. Bearded Git 17

    OK the PR firm Blackland has just summed up the Key junta wonderfully well.

    The housing crisis is a “PR problem”. It is not an issue about people sleeping in cars….it is not an issue about young people not being able to get a foot on the housing ladder…it is not an issue about the richest 10% speculating in housing to further widen the wealth chasm….no it is a tricky PR problem.

    May you not rest in peace John Key.

    Read it here:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11773866

  17. Colonial Viper 18

    test test

    [Merry Xmas CV – MS]

  18. Once was and others etc 19

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201808688/banana-republic-the-ugly-story-behind-new-zealand's-most-popular-fruit

    Not to minimise it, but we have our very own ugly story. It exists in the Bay of Plenty and it’s to do with Kiwifruit.

  19. Pat 20

    “In January Trump will start governing and will have to make compromises. Even small ones will trigger squabbles between the ‘alt-right’. ‘Trump betrayed us.’ ‘No, you’re betraying us for saying Trump betrayed us.’ And so on. The alt-right’s appearance of influence will diminish more and more as they start to fight amongst themselves.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/27/alt-right-donald-trump-white-supremacy-backlash

    has a familiar ring to it…..the same but different.

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