Open mike 29/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 29th, 2019 - 105 comments
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105 comments on “Open mike 29/06/2019 ”

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  1. Robert Guyton 1
    29 June 2019 at 10:10 am

    Now, making up for lost time…

    Here's the podcast link for the interview I did on Otago Access Radio on Thursday, on the topic of climate emergency.

    http://www.accessradio.org/ProgrammePage.aspx?PID=d6c5fa93-1644-4811-acef-71386373b70a

  2. Jenny - How to Get there? 2
    29 June 2019 at 10:51 am

    What is the purpose of the Suppression of Terrorism Act?

    Surely as the name suggests its purpose is to suppress terrorism before it happens

    The only people to be arrested and charged under the Suppression of Terrorism Act are a self admitted white supremacist who murdered 51 people. And Tuhoi activists. (Though the charges against the Tuhoe activists were later dropped through lack of evidence, mainly wire tapped conversations in Maori, that were supposed to show intent to commit terrorism, but showed no such thing.)

    The point is, the purpose of the Suppression of Terrorism Act (supposedly) is to protect the community by suppressing terrorism. Ideally, before it happens.

    Which is why charges under the Suppression of Terrorism Act were brought against Tuhoi, even though they had not committed any acts of terrorism. The prosecutors believed that the Tuhoe activists had an intent to commit acts of terror.

    Which brings us to Phillip Arps.

    Why hasn't Phillip Arps been charged under the Suppression of Terrorism.Act?
    .

    Philip Arps the self identified Christchurch 'fascist' and "white supremacist", who gloried in the Christchurch massacre, reportedly telling the police and other witnesses the video of the slayings was "awesome".

    After viewing the video of the massacre. Phillip Arps had tried to get gun sights and a kill count added to the video to, quote; "make it funnier"

    Phillip Arps is a danger to the community at large in a way that few criminals are. Philip Arps has been sentenced to 21 months for circulating the video of the Christchurch massacre.

    At his sentencing the Judge said… Arps has a high risk of re-offending, shows no remorse and the prospects of changing his views on religion were "virtually non-existent".

    In my opinion Arps "high risk of re-offending" will not be for a minor act.

    This is a man who openly supports acts of terror as defined under the Act.**

    Christchurch attack: The dark truth about New Zealand’s white supremacists

    • 12/05/2019
    • Patrick Gower

    ……He's a white supremacist – and Newshub has obtained a video of him delivering a box containing a severed pig's head to the Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch in 2016.

    “White power," he can be heard saying in the video. "Don't go to a mosque often. Like I said, it should be molotovs.”

    In the Islamic faith, pork is considered unclean and eating it is prohibited.

    In the video, Arps holds the pig's head and says: "Our Muslims gonna love this. See? You see that?" His delivery came complete with Nazi salutes at the door of the building….

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/05/christchurch-attack-the-dark-truth-about-new-zealand-s-white-supremacists.html

    Philip Arps has openly threatened to commit an act of terror, the fire bombing of a mosque.. This is not an allegation, this is a proven fact.

    It is an unproven allegation that the Tuhoe activists ever threatened to commit an act of terror, against anyone, Why were they charged and Phillip Arps has not been?

    Philip Arp. says he models himself on Rudolf Hess, Hitler's deputy.

    (Rudolf Hess spent 46 years in prison. Modeling yourself on Rudolf Hess suggests that you deserve to be jailed as long as he was).

    Hitler himself spent 9 months in prison for organising an attempted coup, the so called Beer Hall Putsch…

    Hindsight suggests that Hitler and his compatriots should have been kept in prison..

    **The Terrorism Suppression Act defines terrorism, in New Zealand or elsewhere, as an act that "is carried out for the purpose of advancing an ideological, political, or religious cause" and with the following intention: to induce terror in a civilian population…

    P.S. In a debate over Syria someone asked me on these pages what my definition of a 'fascist' was. I replied that my definition is simple, someone who commits acts of genocide, or supports the committing of acts of genocide. (Including, knowingly covering up, and denial of acts genocide).

    This would also be my definition of terrorism, A terrorist is someone who commits acts of terror, or who supports committing acts of terror. Phillip Arp fits the second category. But not only only by his words, but by his actions as well, Phillip Arps demonstrates that he himself is at high risk of committing a serious act of terror.

    If Phillip Arps is not tried under the Suppression of Terrorism Act, the question must be asked, what other useful purpose than the suppression of terrorism does it serve?

    One of the reasons given by legal experts as to why charges under the Suppression of Terrorism Act were not initially not brought against the Christchurch shooter was that it would not add anything to the charges of multiple counts of murder that he was already facing.

    If the Suppression of Terrorism Act does not add much to charges against someone who has committed an act of terror, and is not applied to someone at high risk of committing an act of terror. What purpose does the Suppression of Terrorism Act serve?

    • Incognito 2.1
      29 June 2019 at 11:02 am

      Too many horrendously difficult and sensitive issues packed together with a whiff of binary thinking, which is sure to conflate and confuse.

      IMO as non-legal expert, the Terrorism Act is a legal tool, which means it can be used but not it must be used. When a screwdriver suffices, there is no need to charge up the power drill.

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 11:21 am

        Incognito 2.1
        29 June 2019 at 11:02 am
        Too many horrendously difficult and sensitive issues packed together….

        So let’s unpack them….

        It seems that reaching for a 'screwdriver suffices', if the suspect is a self described fascist and white supremacist with an expressed interest in firebombing mosques.

        The power drill is charged up for Maori for no good reason at all.

        • Incognito 2.1.1.1
          29 June 2019 at 11:31 am

          As I said, too many things in one to unpack. Why don’t you focus on one at the time? For example, Phillip Arps and the Terrorism Act and argue why he should have been charged under that particular Law instead? As I see it, he’s been charged and this is sufficient. In other words, start a proper debate, make your points, listen to other counter-points, and discern a new truth. Best wishes.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.1.1.1.1
            29 June 2019 at 12:05 pm

            Incognito 2.1.1.1

            29 June 2019 at 11:31 am

            As I said, too many things in one to unpack…..

            ….start a proper debate, make your points, listen to other counter-points, and discern a new truth. Best wishes.

            Thanks for the best wishes.

            I really would like to hear your counter points, let's have a proper debate. So far Incog. you have only raised a vague objection around me including too many things to unpack. Pick one point you disagree with and let's look at it. Maybe we can, as you say, discern a new truth.

            We might discern that Taika Waititi claim that New Zealand is ‘racist as f***’ is true. And that this is especially true of our Justice System. Self described fascists and white supremacist extremists get an easy ride in our justice system.

            While Maori have the full weight of the law descend on them for the smallest transgression.

            Maybe the revealed bias in the justice system accounts for the much higher arrest rates, conviction rates, imprisonment rates, for Maori over the (white), European population.

            Maybe this bias in the establishment, is where white supremacy and racism finds fertile ground to grow.

            Maybe when we acknowledge it, we could go on to address it.

            To begin with; We should charge Phillip Arps the way we would, if he were Maori.

            • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2019 at 3:18 pm

              Arps wasn't suspected of planning, nor had he committed, a terrorist act. Had he?

            • Incognito 2.1.1.1.1.2
              29 June 2019 at 9:15 pm

              I really would like to hear your counter points, let's have a proper debate. So far Incog. you have only raised a vague objection around me including too many things to unpack. Pick one point you disagree with and let's look at it. Maybe we can, as you say, discern a new truth.

              I’d like healthy intelligent debate flourish here and there are things that make this easier and there are things that make it harder. Pointing out these things is not an objection per se more of an observation. Whether it is taken as such, as constructive criticism, or elicits an evasive or defensive response depends on the recipient.

              I did pick one point (i.e. the charging of Phillip Arps under Suppression of Terrorism Act), which appeared to be the main gist of your rather convoluted and conflated comment @ 2. It was merely a suggestion for you to lead off the debate that you desire and debate in good faith. If you would like to do a Guest Post here then please let us know.

              Here’s a brief selection of key words from your comment @ 2:

              Suppression of Terrorism Act, white supremacist, fascist, Tuhoi [sp] or Tūhoe, Māori, Christchurch massacre, Phillip Arps, Rudolf Hess, Hitler, Syria, genocide.

              You felt it necessary to redefine the definition of “fascist” in your terms and expect other commenters to debate on your terms.

              Indeed, the Tūhoe raids were a monumental cock up by NZ Police and they did give a belated apology. However, none of the activists was ever charged in Court under the Suppression of Terrorism Act and thus none was found guilty of terrorism. They were arrested under the Act as far as I know.

              Getting back to Phillip Arps, it seems to me that you want him charged as if he were Māori, despite the Tūhoe activists being falsely and wrongly ‘accused’ and suspected of being terrorists, and/or because he’s said and done vile things that in your opinion meet the legal standard of “terrorism” but may well fall short of this deliberately high bar when tested in Court.

    • solkta 2.2
      29 June 2019 at 11:10 am

      I'm not sure if it is helpful for everybody to come to their own definitions for words like Fascist.

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.2.1
        29 June 2019 at 11:32 am

        In the case of Phillip Alps, 'fascist' is a word that he uses to define himself.

        That he also supports the crimes of the Christchurch shooter, fits in with my definition of fascist, someone who supports genocide.

        I find it strange, Solkta, that you think it is not helpful for people to try and define the meaning of this word.

        • reason 2.2.1.1
          30 June 2019 at 10:26 am

          By your definition the usa and the british are fascist …. Jenny

          http://theconversation.com/us-complicity-in-the-saudi-led-genocide-in-yemen-spans-obama-trump-administrations-106896

          The mass starvation of up to 14 million people is an unfathomable crime against humanity. All parties to the conflict are responsible for creating these conditions, but the Saudi coalition and its Western patrons bear the largest share because they have been the ones blockading the country, systematically targeting food production and distribution, wrecking civilian infrastructure, and devastating the economy https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/14-million-yemenis-are-at-risk-of-dying-in-man-made-famine/

          University scholar Alex de Waal describes Yemen as “the greatest famine atrocity of our lifetimes.”

          The West's medieval client, Saudi Arabia – to which the US and Britain sell billions of dollars' worth of arms – is at present destroying Yemen, a country so poor that in the best of times, half the children are malnourished.

          The coalition isn’t accidentally attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure – it’s doing it deliberately.

          That’s evident from the kind – and volume – of civilian targets documented. They include places that are generally protected against attack even under the lax rules of international humanitarian law: Residential areas, vehicles, marketplaces and mosques as well as boats, social gatherings and camps for internally displaced persons.

          Loss of life from fighting should be easier to record and publicise, and the fact this has not happened in Yemen is a sign of the lack of interest by the international community in the conflict.

          https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/yemen-war-death-toll-saudi-arabia-allies-how-many-killed-responsibility-a8603326.html

          Uniting fascism old and new is the cult of superiority. "I believe in American exceptionalism with every fibre of my being," said Obama, evoking declarations of national fetishism from the 1930s.

          The common thread in fascism, past and present, is mass murder. The American invasion of Vietnam had its "free fire zones", "body counts" and "collateral damage". In the province of Quang Ngai, where I reported from, many thousands of civilians ("gooks") were murdered by the US; yet only one massacre, at My Lai, is remembered.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pWlSMa2yAE

    • Gabby 2.3
      29 June 2019 at 11:35 am

      He might be braindamaged.

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.3.1
        29 June 2019 at 2:42 pm

        Is Phillip Arps mentally deranged? Possibly, but that doesn't mean that Phillip Arps is less dangerous. It might mean that he is more dangerous.

    • SHG 2.4
      29 June 2019 at 12:58 pm

      someone asked me on these pages what my definition of a ‘fascist’ was. I replied that my definition is simple, someone who commits acts of genocide, or supports the committing of acts of genocide. (Including, knowingly covering up, and denial of acts genocide).

      See: Josef Stalin

      • Psycho Milt 2.4.1
        29 June 2019 at 1:33 pm

        Yep. Fascism's become most famous for something that was peripheral to, and certainly not unique to, fascism. It makes for a lot of really stupid definitions of fascism out there.

        • In Vino 2.4.1.1
          29 June 2019 at 6:10 pm

          Absolutely right, PM

        • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.4.1.2
          30 June 2019 at 11:41 am

          Psycho Milt 2.4.1

          29 June 2019 at 1:33 pm

          Yep. Fascism's become most famous for something that was peripheral to, and certainly not unique to, fascism……

          Hi Psycho,
          Extreme nationalism with notions of racial superiority and race purity. And genocide which is the practical application of these theories, is not "peripheral" to fascism, as you claim Psycho, it is fascism's central identifying feature.

          I might ask you Psycho, if you think the theory of racial superiority and its practical application, genocide is only peripheral to fascism, what do you think fascism's main features are?

          Their great fashion sense, perhaps?

          Or perhaps that they made the trains run on time?

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.4.2
        29 June 2019 at 2:51 pm

        Just to clarify your statement SHG, are you saying that Josef Stalin was not guilty of committing genocide?

        Or are you saying that Stalin wasn't a fascist?

        By my definition anyone who commits genocide is a fascist.

        To argue the opposite is a semantic argument, of petty definitions. That there are good genocides and bad genocides, (pretty much the argument of the Assad apologists).

        • In Vino 2.4.2.1
          29 June 2019 at 6:19 pm

          Fascists are extreme right, prone to be racist. If you know anything of history, that does not describe Stalin. He was paranoid and despotic – destroyed anyone he feared was a threat to his authority and system regardless of race. Shifted entire populations (almost) based on practical considerations like communal property, economic 5-year-plan policy. I have read quite a bit of history, and the only racist bone I can think of in Stalin would be his anti-German feelings, after the misery the racist, anti-Slavonic Nazis inflicted upon his country.

          If Stalin committed genocide, I would suggest that he did not do it for racist reasons. He had only practical considerations in his warped, paranoid mind. Unlike Hitler.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.4.2.1.1
            30 June 2019 at 11:59 am

            Was Stalin racist? Not in the strict meaning of the word, but what you miss, In Vino, is that despite being from Georgia and being the leader of a multi-national state, (the old USSR). Is that what Stalin shared with Hitler was that they both exploited notions of extreme nationalism to consolidate their power. The war against fascism was termed by Stalin the 'The Great Patriotic War', ' The war for the Motherland' etc. Posing the war against Germany in this way was objected to by many old socialists.

            But Stalin could hardly have termed that titanic struggle the war for freedom and liberty in case his own people got ideas.

            • In Vino 2.4.2.1.1.1
              30 June 2019 at 4:25 pm

              Jenny – Hitler always believed in his extreme nationalism/racism. He wrote Mein Kampf back in the 1920s. Stalin had no such views, and had thoroughly consolidated his position of power long before WW2. His official party line was that the international proletariat would eventually take over the world, and patriotism would go the way of religion. (Opiate of the masses, etc.)

              Stalin resorted to appealing to Russian patriotism only when Hitler had invaded, and Russia was staring defeat in the face. Stalin had to resort back to patriotic appeal etc to get the utmost effort out of his people and soldiers. Once it proved to be of help, he stayed with it. But he had established his personal power long beforehand, and did it all much more cynically than Hitler, who really believed in the Aryan Master-race.

              • In Vino …
                30 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

                To push my point, Jenny, I think you are pushing a very sloppy definition of Fascism much too far. Looking at definitions, most dictionaries describe Fascism as far right. Millions of Russians who died opposing Fascism would revile your calling their leader a Fascist.

                Simply wrong, whatever parallels you find.

        • mikesh 2.4.2.2
          29 June 2019 at 8:18 pm

          Fascists tend to crush political opponents; but they do so because these are political opponents, not because they belong to a particular race. Benito Mussolini was clearly a fascist, but I don't think he was genocidal.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 2.4.2.2.1
            30 June 2019 at 10:57 am

            mikesh 2.4.2.2

            29 June 2019 at 8:18 pm

            …….Benito Mussolini was clearly a fascist, but I don't think he was genocidal.

            Hi Mikesh, all empires are genocidal by their very nature.

            Genocide is how empires go about their business of invasion and conquest and subjugation of new territories.

            The expanding Italian fascist empire, set on conquering and occupying Greece, Yugoslavia and North Africa and turning them into Italian colonies, was no different.

            There was no Nuremberg for Italian criminals.

            Given the evidence against them, it must rank as one of the great escapes. General Pietro Badoglio's planes dropped 280kg bombs of mustard gas over Ethiopian villages and strafed Red Cross camps. He died of old age in his bed, was buried with full military honours and had his home town named after him. General Rudolfo Graziani, aka the butcher of Libya, massacred entire communities; his crimes included an infamous assault on the sick and elderly of Addis Ababa. His men posed for photographs holding severed heads. General Mario Roatta, known to his men as the black beast, killed tens of thousands of Yugoslav civilians in reprisals and herded thousands more to their deaths in concentration camps lacking water, food and medicine. One of his soldiers wrote home on July 1 1942: "We have destroyed everything from top to bottom without sparing the innocent. We kill entire families every night, beating them to death or shooting them."….

            ……There remains in Italian culture and public opinion the idea that basically we were colonialists with a human face."

            Another historian, Angelo Del Boca, says those guilty of genocide were honoured. "A process of rehabilitation is being organised for some of them by sympathetic or supportive biographers." He says that for decades his research was obstructed – an accusation echoed by Focardi. Vital documents are "mislaid" or perpetually out on loan. Just one example: 11 years ago a German researcher found documents and photographs of Italian atrocities in Yugoslavia in the central state archive, a fascist-built marble hulk south of Rome. No one has been able to gain access to them since…..

            ……Last month workers digging in northern Ethiopia stumbled on yet another Italian arms depot suspected of containing mustard gas. Addis Ababa asked Rome to respect an international weapons treaty by revealing the location of stockpiles and helping to clear them…..

            https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/jun/25/artsandhumanities.highereducation

            P.S.Resembling somewhat the cone of silence around New Zealand’s past colonial and imperial history. In which ideas of white superiority find fertile ground. (Not looking at you, Hobson’s Pledge)

    • Psycho Milt 2.5
      29 June 2019 at 1:31 pm

      Why hasn't Phillip Arps been charged under the Suppression of Terrorism.Act?

      I'm no lawyer, but several fairly obvious reasons stand out:

      1. The authorities learned something from the Tuhoi fiasco and don't want to make themselves look that stupid again.

      2. They would prefer to have him actually convicted of appropriate charges, rather than have terrorism charges laughed out of court and him walk free.

      3. "Being a fascist" isn't a crime in this country and hopefully never will be.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    29 June 2019 at 11:07 am

    CNN's Editor-at-large rated the performance of the Dem hopefuls competing with each other. Ten each on Weds/Thurs nights. Biggest loser: Joe Biden. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/27/politics/who-won-democratic-debate-night-2/index.html

    Winners:

    "Kamala Harris: The California Senator gave the strongest performance not just of Thursday night's debate but of either nights' debate. She was calm, poised, knowledgeable and, yes, presidential."

    Julian Castro: "His net favorability rating increased 16.1 percentage points, more than even Harris’ did." https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/2020-democratic-presidential-primary-debate-winners-and-losers.html

    And on TDB, Curwen Rolinson makes a statistical case for an unknown leaping into prominence: "Below, we’ve got search analytics data for the Congresswoman both during and after the debate. I’ve also seen immediate post-match polling which has Gabbard a clear ‘winner’ – in fact, the clear Winner – edging out even predicted ‘people’s-choice-but-establishment-bete-noir’ Elizabeth Warren." https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/06/28/tulsi-gabbard-blazes-impressive-trail-at-first-democratic-primary-debate/

    "At one point, the moderators deliberately attempted to stop Gabbard from speaking about Saudi Arabia and its role in financing terrorism." Understandable, eh? Moderators want everyone to be moderate. Democrats trying to tell the truth are swimming against that tide…

    • joe90 3.1
      29 June 2019 at 11:41 am

      I watched some of the debate and TBF, it looked like the moderators were trying to stop Gabbard talking about herself and her military service.

      But hey, let the whinging begin.

      https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1144058895863832577

      https://nypost.com/2019/06/27/tulsi-gabbard-was-most-searched-candidate-after-democratic-debate/

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 11:53 am

        Fair enough then. I noticed Beto failed to impress. Did you rate any obvious winners of either night?

        • The Al1en 3.1.1.1
          29 June 2019 at 12:20 pm

          BBC Rates it thusly

          https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48766635

          Winners – Harris, Warren and Castro.

          Losers – Biden, O'Rourke, everybody else not named Bernie Sanders or Pete Buttigieg, who has enough momentum to fight another day.

        • joe90 3.1.1.2
          29 June 2019 at 12:22 pm

          Harris. She took control and cut through the bullshit. Castro and Warren looked good, too. Next debate, ditch Ryan, Inslee, Gabbard, Williamson, and De Blasio and give the rest more time to articulate policy.

          https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/1144415771512193024

          • Morrissey 3.1.1.2.1
            29 June 2019 at 12:39 pm

            Why ditch Tulsi Gabbard? The others you mention are little better than worthless, but she's not. Justify your contempt for her—if you can.

              • Morrissey …
                29 June 2019 at 12:54 pm

                “Dove”? She’s an ex-soldier in the U.S. Army. You’re probably the first person in the world to call her a “dove”. Do you even know what that word means, in political/military terminology?

                You support the U.S., Britain, and France arming and funding Al Qaeda in Syria, then, do you?

                • joe90 …
                  29 June 2019 at 1:01 pm

                  You support assisting Assad and Putin's murderous assaults on Syrians in their own homes, then, do you?

                  https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1143599820357214208

                  • Morrissey …
                    29 June 2019 at 1:53 pm

                    Ha! There are many humane, highly educated and intelligent Palestinian commentators. And then there is Rula Jebreal. With unerring, even comical, panache, you went straight to that MSNBC drone to support your broadside against one of the few principled and decent politicians in the U.S.

                    Word of advice: MSNBC is as credible a source as its mirror image, Fox News. Of course, just as with Fox, there is occasionally something that looks like informed, rigorous journalism; Rula Jebreal is never going to be the occasion for such a deviation. You'd know that, of course, if you ever bothered to do anything other than post up complacent tweets from the extreme right of the Democratic Party machine.

                    How’s that hunt for the Russian masterminds and their evil control of the U.S. elections going, by the way? Any evidence yet?

                    • McFlock …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:22 pm

                      Yup, and a couple of dozen indictments, wasn't there? #Mueller

                    • mauī …
                      29 June 2019 at 5:42 pm

                      ….Those would be the indictments that prove everything under the sun apart from any Trump – Russia collusion lol.

                    • McFlock …
                      29 June 2019 at 6:12 pm

                      Wasn't it twenty Russians indicted? That's the involvement bit.

                      The report suggests that Trump's team tried to collude with Russia, but weren't any good at it.

                  • mauī …
                    29 June 2019 at 6:07 pm

                    “Since moving to the United States in 2009, Rula has been an on-air foreign policy analyst for MSNBC and a contributor to the Daily Beast, Newsweek and Salon.com,….. Rula has appeared frequently on CNN and Bloomberg……. ”

                    That's enough for me, "propaganda" is her middle name.

                    • joe90 …
                      29 June 2019 at 6:58 pm

                      Of course, had she moved to Russia you'd lap up whatever she had to say.

                      But hey, when your go-to sources are Assad apologists Beeley and Johnston, WTF would an Israel born Palestinian women know.

                      /

            • Andre 3.1.1.2.1.2
              29 June 2019 at 1:22 pm

              Yeah, I s'pose if she keeps she keeps the support of all the Drudge Report and David Duke – type deplorables, she just might make it up into mid-single digits support.

              https://thehill.com/homenews/media/450597-drudge-instant-poll-shows-tulsi-gabbard-winning-first-democratic-debate-in

              • Morrissey …
                29 June 2019 at 2:00 pm

                There are several people in that depressingly untalented line-up of primary cannon-fodder that would endorse David Duke's crackpot theories—Biden being the most openly racist of them. Tulsi Gabbard is neither a racist nor a supporter of endless war, which makes her an uncomfortable presence in a party dominated by the likes of Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi.

                Feel free to carry on with your name calling and lies, however—-witless abuse from you is nothing new, it adds nothing to the discussion, but nobody with a whit of common sense takes your paranoid rubbish seriously.

                • The Al1en …
                  29 June 2019 at 2:24 pm

                  And yet Gabbard has zero chance of winning the Democrat nomination, which is at least consistent, as polling shows she has, unlike Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harris and Mayor Pete, zero chance of beating Trump, too.

                  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

                  General Election: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Biden 55, Trump 45 Biden +10

                  General Election: Trump vs. Sanders Emerson Sanders 55, Trump 45 Sanders +10

                  General Election: Trump vs. Warren Emerson Warren 53, Trump 47 Warren +6

                  General Election: Trump vs. Harris Emerson Harris 52, Trump 48 Harris +4

                  General Election: Trump vs. Buttigieg Emerson Buttigieg 52, Trump 48 Buttigieg +

                  • Morrissey …
                    29 June 2019 at 2:28 pm

                    Do carry on and enjoy those polls, Alien! Let's hope they are as prescient as you obviously think they are.

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:31 pm

                      Who said anything about enjoyment? That's you just poorly attempting a narrative set up, but surely the only hoping is yours, given the public support on here, how those polls will completely reverse or all other candidates step down or die.

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:42 pm

                      I meant "enjoy" in the most technical sense, of course—as in "I read those polls religiously, and I trembled with excitement at their promise of a Biden-Buttiegieg administration, but I didn't enjoy it. No sir, I didn't enjoy it."

                      Personally, Alien, though I want him gone immediately, I think the Penguin will be re-elected with an increased majority. And I have a record of being right about this matter….

                      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/who-will-be-lead-mourner-at-obamas.html

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:48 pm

                      No offence, but I barely get through your comments on here, so the last thing I'd do is click a link to your blog, but that aside, I'm all good, ta.

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:52 pm

                      "No offence". Ha! I'm not surprised you're too idle to do any research to back up your prejudiced posts here.

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:55 pm

                      Bait not taken. I'm still not bigging up your daily traffic ego 😉

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:58 pm

                      Trouble is, you're obviously not doing any serious, leave alone extended, reading.

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:02 pm

                      More poorly crafted narrative setting it is, then. lol

                • Wayne …
                  29 June 2019 at 2:36 pm

                  It is ridiculous to suggest Biden is a racist. Perhaps not always at the forefront of combating racism. But with 40 years in the Senate he inevitably had to work with southern Democrats who were probably first elected in the 1950’s. And some of them would have been racist. That doesn’t make Biden a racist.

                  • Morrissey …
                    29 June 2019 at 2:44 pm

                    It is ridiculous to suggest Biden is a racist.

                    ??????

                    As ridiculous as "suggesting", leave alone exhaustively documenting, that New Zealand troops under your watch invaded Afghan villages, strapped dead bodies to the front of their vehicles to terrorize the local women and children, and handed over captives to be tortured.

                • Andre …
                  29 June 2019 at 2:38 pm

                  Nah, she's all for funneling money to big defense contractors so the US can drone the fuck out of brown people whose religion she doesn't like. Torture is all tickety-boo with her, too.

                  https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tulsi-gabbard-president-sanders-democratic-party

                  • Morrissey …
                    29 June 2019 at 2:50 pm

                    Tulsi Gabbard is opposed to the U.S. and its vassals carrying on endless illegal war, whether in the devastated Middle East, or Venezuela. That's why the war-mongers of the Democratic Party "leadership" hate her, and that's why their media mouthpieces ridicule her. Which is why people like you, who take their views from their narrow and largely uncritical consumption of those media mouthpieces, are so happy to recycle them on fora like this one.

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:54 pm

                      It's not just "the war-mongers of the Democratic Party "leadership"" who hate her, according to the polls, 99% of democrat voters do as well.

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 2:57 pm

                      With respect, 99 percent of the population do not have the chance to see her speak. How often is she on television compared to Biden? How often is she accorded even minimal respect when she appears on television?

                    • Andre …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:02 pm

                      In Morrissey-speak, does respect mean "goes all gooey-eyed and brain-dead when she says a few key catch-words so the viewer becomes unable to comprehend the really unsavory aspects of her actual positions"?

                    • The Al1en …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:04 pm

                      Will that be the line you run when your pick bombs? At least you can say with confidence, for once, we heard it here first.

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:11 pm

                      What "unsavory" positions does she hold? She's opposed to bombing other countries for no good reason; that's not the same as supporting the governments of those countries.

                      In contrast, many of those other Democratic "leadership" candidates are open supporters of the most unsavory regimes on the planet. Saudi Arabia is a key funder of many of them, as are weapons manufacturers. One of them, Pete Buttigieg, is an enthusiastic supporter of the Israeli Army, which he reckons is a "model" for the U.S. Army of the future.

                      But of course you'll carry on pouring filth on Tulsi Gabbard in the same way you pour filth on political prisoners.

                      Carry on.

                    • Morrissey …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:15 pm

                      At least you can say with confidence, for once, we heard it here first.

                      You read it here first that Trump would be president. This writer, i.e. moi, predicted it long before he started his campaign….

                      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/who-will-be-lead-mourner-at-obamas.html

                    • Andre …
                      29 June 2019 at 3:17 pm

                      Gee, mozzie, you ever taken a good hard look at Gabbard views on Israel? Maybe you should.

                      https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2019/1/18/the-pro-palestine-lefts-curious-support-for-tulsi-gabbard

      • Morrissey 3.1.2
        29 June 2019 at 1:00 pm

        Why the animus—from you—against the only decent person at the "debate"?

  5. Morrissey 5
    29 June 2019 at 12:44 pm

    The late John McCain's idiot daughter could well be the stupidest person in the whole of the United States.

  6. UncookedSelachimorpha 6
    29 June 2019 at 12:55 pm

    Excellent article from Bryce Edwards today on the coalition's approach to fixing the housing crisis, with interesting stats on the number of state houses being built compared to that requried

    Not only was KiwiBuild an ill-thought-out policy, it was something of a right-wing policy masquerading as a left-wing one, which made it ill-suited to a government trying to satisfy a public looking again for the state to step up to solve problems in society, rather than use market-oriented "solutions"..

    Despite promising 100,000 houses, economist Shamubeel Eaqub estimated there was a need for 500,000 affordable houses to be built by the state.

    What the Labour Party never wanted to do was to spend any capital – political or actual – on housing.

    • I feel love 6.1
      29 June 2019 at 9:31 pm

      A sweet irony, the right have been hounding Kiwibuild since before it's inception, yet it's a right wing idea, maybe Labour will actually turn left and come up with something that doesn't line developers pockets, then the right wingers will be wishing for Kiwibuild again!

      Personally speaking, I'm just glad Labour have ideas and are trying something, anything.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1.1
        30 June 2019 at 7:31 am

        Yes, one thing for certain is that Labour is much better than the last lot, but so constrained by right wing ideology.

  7. Morrissey 7
    29 June 2019 at 2:15 pm

    If our friends "joe90" and "Andre" were serious, then they'd watch this.

    They're not, of course, but other Standardisti may well be interested….

    • Incognito 7.1
      29 June 2019 at 4:16 pm

      Why would Standardistas be interested in watching a video that’s 49’17’’ long? Because of the catchy title?

      • Morrissey 7.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 5:04 pm

        Why would Standardistas be interested in watching a video that’s 49’17’’ long? Because of the catchy title?

        Because it features Max Blumenthal, one of the best journalists and activists in the United States. Because it's an eloquent deconstruction of the motivations behind the ludicrous and dangerous "Russiagate" fantasy that's been recycled by some dedicated followers of the DNC* on this mostly excellent site.

        I take your point about its length, though. Here's some equally astute analysis that should take only a few minutes of our colleagues' valuable time….

        https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-trump-russia-mueller-investigation-815060/

        https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-russiagate-helps-israel-lobby

        * No, don't ask me why New Zealanders would clamber on that doomed bandwagon; your guess is as good as mine.

      • Sacha 7.1.2
        29 June 2019 at 5:08 pm

        The credibility of the recommender is more than enough.

        [Do you want to add anything useful to this site? If yes, please stop the personal jibes or balance them with something useful if you must ridicule the commenter’s thinking because otherwise it looks like you just want to start another flame war instead of contributing to robust debate – Incognito]

        • Morrissey 7.1.2.1
          29 June 2019 at 5:12 pm

          Still nothing of substance to say? Have you heard of Max Blumenthal? How about Ali Abuminah? Or Matt Taibbi? Do you actually read anything?

          • McFlock 7.1.2.1.1
            29 June 2019 at 5:34 pm

            The question is not whether one reads anything, but rather whether one filters content by source before investing time and energy to consume and consider it.

            Your recommendations are an excellent filter.

          • Incognito 7.1.2.1.2
            29 June 2019 at 6:36 pm

            Now, that’s not helpful at all. In fact, it is condescending. You didn’t need to have taken the bait by Sacha. Instead, you could have explained to those of us who are not familiar with those names who they are, what they stand for, and what they have in common or what binds them contextually together in your opinion.

        • McFlock 7.1.2.2
          29 June 2019 at 5:30 pm

          heh

        • Incognito 7.1.2.3
          29 June 2019 at 6:46 pm

          See my Moderation note @ 5:08 PM.

  8. Puckish Rogue 8
    29 June 2019 at 4:53 pm

    Ben Shapiros take on the Dems debate





      • bewildered 8.1.1
        29 June 2019 at 9:13 pm

        Oh mozzie do STFU Shapiro may not be to your liking but he is no idiot or racist You don’t get into Harvard law school and finish top of your class being and idiot Basically any one who does not agree with you and your RT contributors , left or right is an idiot I suggest this makes only one idiot being yourself

        • McFlock 8.1.1.1
          29 June 2019 at 9:46 pm

          Might not be an idiot, but he's been identified as a gateway drug to joining the swastika crowd.

        • McFlock 8.1.1.2
          30 June 2019 at 1:33 am

          He has an interesting take on bussing. Interesting for this day and age, I mean.

          Ben Shapiro might not be an idiot, but he is a piece of shit.

        • Morrissey 8.1.1.3
          30 June 2019 at 2:58 pm

          He's fine when spewing out, without anyone contradicting him, his brutal attacks on Palestinians and other untermenschen, but to anyone who has watched his embarrassing demolition at the hands of Andrew Neil, it's obvious Shapiro has not got the chops for intellectual debate.

          Your appeal to credentials is misplaced. A lot of fools have made it to the top of the academic ladder. That discredited liar, plagiarist and hate-propagandist Alan Dershowitz was top of his Harvard Law School class too.

          Back in this country, the late not so great Roger Kerr, who was head of the Employers' Federation for far too long, never failed to mention that he got the highest total marks in School Certificate in 1960—yet he hardly ever made a coherent or memorable statement. Kerr "featured" in one of the very worst traincrash interviews by Kim Hill; when she challenged his lazy and complacent statements, he had nothing to offer other than repeating incessantly: "Are you a communist, Kim?"

  9. Craig H 9
    29 June 2019 at 5:29 pm

    Arguments for Universal Basic Income

    1: Women

    Half of society would be liberated, and that's worthy of top billing.

    2: Survival under a Modern Economy

    Self-reliance is impossible in a modern economy.

    In ages past, it was possible to live by hunting/gathering, or by practicing subsistence farming in some unclaimed territory. This is no longer practical. Not only are we not trained to do so, the population is far too large to sustain by hunting, and all the land is claimed (either by big agricultural concerns, or as wilderness reserves).

    People can only survive through participating in the economy, paying farmers for produce (usually via logistics chains).

    The economy is assumed to provide jobs for a good number of people. However, let's be real: even under normal conditions, most people aren't in the conventional workforce. Children. Students. Mothers and other homemakers. Invalids. Retirees. Incarceratees. This adds up to most people. And all of them have to buy toilet paper. (Kidding, it's usually the women.)

    Even within the group of those able to work, not all of them can do so. An economy with 0% unemployment has no slack, and cannot easily grow or innovate – or even cope with seasonal work like harvesting. You need people to be available for new opportunities. Some proportion of unemployment is necessary for the system to work.

    From a utilitarian point of view, then, society needs a strong guarantee that its members can survive without permanent employment. The UBI delivers that guarantee.

    3: Dignity has Value

    I can drop your IQ by 20 points. First, hand me your wallet.

    Economic anxiety has a real, measurable cognitive load. It is thus a really bad motivational tool, like most forms of negative reinforcement. When we talk about a "poverty trap", it is this kind of negative effect that keeps people from doing their best.

    But I hear you cry: Why do you see this as negative? Shouldn't we treat 0 income as the baseline, and regard any income over and above that as positive?

    No, because there are non-negotiable expenses. Rent, power, food, medication, and communications are all considered fundamental human requirements today. Things like transport to work sites, suitable clothing, one nice thing per week, and socially acceptable narcotics like alcohol are practically required to be a worker, but aren't necessary for survival. And debt is an economic reality for an increasing number of people.

    There are various income thresholds, but the two most significant are the Living Wage and the Happiness Maximum.

    The Living Wage is well known. It varies by region thanks to real estate factors, but could be in the 12K-20K range. This is the low end of any effective UBI.

    The Happiness Maximum (my term, not sure if there's an official summary for it) is the point at which you feel secure, and further income gains do not contribute to your wellbeing. This is somewhere around 70K. Happymax is interesting for two reasons: it's a nice target for UBI in fully automated luxury space communism e.g. Star Trek utopia; and it's a reminder that the rich don't get that much out of their wealth, so they won't really miss it. Happymax isn't a serious proposal right now, but it's something important to bear in mind.

    Somewhere between Living Wage and Happymax, you get more out of people. They can be happier, healthier, and more productive. This tends to provide the biggest boost to the most disadvantaged; see experiments in Africa, where it allowed people to start small businesses and increase the capacity of entire communities.

    Dignity is valuable. If people can live with confidence, they will.

    4: Opposition is Desperation

    "It'll never work. The Man will keep us all in our place."

    Bold statements have power. They're very convincing.

    But you're smarter than that. You can see through bold declarations of fact, and see the agenda behind them. You are your own person, and you will be defined on your own terms.

    See what I did there? I used the same psychological weapon on you, set in reverse. I hope it works.

    A lot of people feel threatened by UBI and what it means. They should be. Their fear means they know they can lose. Well, "losing" in this context ain't so bad.

    5: It's the Right Thing

    UBI helps the vulnerable. It's the right thing to do.

    I'm closing with this statement for the same reason I opened with women. The start and the end stick in the mind. These two ideas are simple, and important, and nobody else talks about them. I want to change that.

    A neanderthal skeleton was found with long-term deformities. This individual could not have survived on their own. But they lived with this condition for decades. Neanderthals, with nothing but sharp rocks and a fire in a cave, cared for their fellows.

    It's what makes us human.

    • McFlock 9.1
      29 June 2019 at 5:39 pm

      Arguments against:

      Not everyone has the same need, which means the system would compromise projected efficiency or equity;

      the cost is substantial and possibly unaffordable;

      while it might address the difficulties of many or even most people in need, it might be inappropriate for others.

  10. Sacha 10
    29 June 2019 at 5:37 pm

    Concise reflection on how 'free speech' is being used in Australian social politics:

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/let-me-speak-freely-our-freedom-of-speech-crisis-is-culture-warriors-codswallop-20190628-p5227g.html

    When it involves free speech, culture warriors on the right aren’t afraid to invoke victimhood when it suits them. It’s all part of a majoritarian identity politics – one based on race and religion, and on sex and sexuality – aimed at reinforcing a hierarchy of voice and position. It’s no accident the demands for more free speech tend to come not from those lacking power, but those who fear the erosion of their power.

    We can expect to see more iterations of these battles, especially in the realms of popular culture. It has become part of the contemporary conservative mindset to believe that if you want political power, you must first change the culture – that “politics is downstream from culture”.

    (won't take 49 minutes to read, either)

  11. Sabine 11
    29 June 2019 at 5:37 pm

    well i guess its time to quickly invest in prisons for profit. they have found the new criminal and it is the migrant – be it economic, environmental reasons or simply to get away from gangs and death.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/slimy-sandwiches-unhealthy-ramen-on-appalling-detainee-menu

    200,000 Sandwiches

    Wootan and her colleagues calculated that in the contract awarded to Jesco, the government describes enough daily food for about 850 people for a year: about 200,000 bologna sandwiches, 300,000 burritos and between 48,000 and 96,000 ramen cups. (“Ramen soup cups are on our list of the most unhealthy foods you could eat,’’ she said.) But it’s unclear how many people are being held at the five centers supplied by the contract on any given day.

    Processing centers like the one at McAllen are supposed to hold detainees for no longer than 72 hours. Yet Gialluca said she spoke with detainees who’d been there for about two weeks. “Children aren’t supposed to spend any significant time in these processing facilities,’’ she said.

    Contractors that serve the centers are seeing increased revenue this year. Jesco, which provides other services in addition to food and beverages, has done 26 transactions worth $5.1 million thus far in 2019, including janitorial services, preventive maintenance and fencing construction. Last year, the company had $4.2 million in government contracts; in 2017, it was $3.9 million.

    Another company, Deployed Resources, of Rome, New York, has 2019 contracts worth $52 million, up from $3.8 million last year and $26.3 million in 2017. In addition to feeding detainees, the company provides such services as equipment leasing, building installation and temporary housing. A co-owner of Deployed Resources hung up on a Bloomberg News reporter when reached by phone.

  12. KJT 12
    30 June 2019 at 12:23 pm

    Sneaky cut to super, for a retiree whose spouse is too old to get a job, but too young to retire.

    https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/newsroom/factsheets/budget/factsheet-super-and-vp-modernisation-2019.pdf

    Hardly an addition to "wellbeing". 

    Couples are taxed on individual income, which makes for an large variation on how households are taxed on the same income, disadvantaging women, usually, who have to stay at home for disabled children or other relatives. One of the few things they could access was the non qualifying spouse share in super, if their older partner retired.

    And. They are using this to fund an effective increase for those who already get overseas pensions/super.

    Again an inconsistent approach.

  13. Eco maori 13
    1 July 2019 at 8:06 am

    Kia ora Newshub

    It's cool that the housing market has cooled down that phenomenon is letting our first home buyers into the market.

    The fuel tax is what is needed to protect your offspring future boy your national m8 made a big mess of Aotearoa just like trump is doing makeing a mess.

    I say a Maori health organization is needed run by Maori for Maori. I say that the 7 years shorter life expectancy for Maori than non Maori is a under estimate by a long way.

    Its good that all Aotearoa rentals have to be insulated ka pai What I see is a lot of houses being built without taking into consideration the phenomenon that gives us life the SUN heaps of whare being shaded out by trees or bad design this is what happens when a society forgets about the natural environment we come from we need to respect each other and our environment and build houses designed to maximize passive solar gain .

    Kia kite ano.

  14. Eco maori 14
    1 July 2019 at 11:04 am

    Time for a change to laws that are logical and not political as is the situation now.

    Some illegal drugs, including cocaine, heroin, cannabis and cannabis resin, were evaluated up to 30 years ago or have never been evaluated, Dreifuss said, which seriously undermines their international control.

    Asked whether these drugs should be reclassified, Juan Manuel Santos, the former president of Colombia, replied “yes”. “The scientific basis is non-existent,” Santos told journalists at an online briefing to discuss the commission’s report.

    “It was a political decision. According to the studies we’ve seen over past years, substances like cannabis are less harmful than alcohol,” he said. “I come from Colombia, probably the country that has paid the highest price for the war on drugs

    After 50 years, the war on drugs has not been won, Santos said. It had caused “more damage, more harm” to the world than a practical approach that would regulate the sale and consumption of drugs in a “good way”.

    The WHO estimated in 2011 that 83% of the world’s population lived in countries with low or non-existent access to opioid pain relief.

    The commission’s recent report looks into how “biased” historical classification of substances, with its emphasis on prohibition, has contributed to the world drug problem. Under the current system, in place since 1961, decisions on classifying drugs are taken by the Commission on Narcotic Drugs (CND), a body of UN member states established by the UN Economic and Social Council. The WHO Expert Committee on Drug Dependence provides recommendations to the CND. However, the recommendations are then voted on by the CND members, leaving them open to political decisions

    Helen Clark, the former prime minister of New Zealand, said the WHO should make decisions on drug classification based on health and wellbeing. More harmful drugs would require a higher level of intervention, she said.

    “The international community should recognise that the system is broken,” said Clark. “They should recognise the inconsistencies and it should trigger a review.”

    The campaign for a 'drug-free world' is costing lives

    Louise Arbour and

    Risk thresholds, such as those used for alcohol, should be used for illegal drugs rather than the “absolute precautionary principle”, she said.

    The commission called on the international community to move towards the legal regulation and use of drugs. In January, the WHO recognised the medical benefits of cannabis and recommended Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/26/illegal-drugs-classifications-based-on-politics-not-science-cannabis-report-says

  15. Eco maori 15
    1 July 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Kia ora Newshub

    Good on the new fuel tax that will get people on to public transportation Julie .

    Insulation makes a house the land lord have had plenty of warning about the deadline.

    There you go the Gail case Show there true characters.

    Let's hope that the American Cup will be a great big success.

    Ka kite ano

  16. Eco maori 16
    1 July 2019 at 6:47 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori news.

    I say that the changes to Oranga tamariki is good the reporting the success is great.

    Including 17 year old in the youth court is over due to Eco Maori say some people don't grow up till they are 30 years old.

    Kahanunui whanau services is needed to help get tangata whenua whare as a landlord will choose other people before Maori for their houses I know what that feels like.

    Health care by Maori for Maori who have heaps of Aroha for Maori.

    Ka kite ano

  17. Eco maori 17
    2 July 2019 at 8:22 am

    Kia ora The Am Show

    There you go that is how I see them you look stunned.

    I don't think a apologies is going to change anything in Maori health I would like to see improvements in Maori health up Te taiwhiti it's a scenario of the ambulances at the bottom of the hill literally.

    The housing short caused by national it is hard and expensive to get a whare

    The rightneck who are attacking Our Winston and The United Nations needs to be reigned in a stopped .

    That was mighty hail storm in Mexico caused by Global warming climate change.

    Kate Bullock's Our Government has done more for the Lowe classes in 2 years than the other lot did in 9 years this is to the person who Duncan read out there email.

    I have worked many days while I was sick and worked hard for my employers and still got discriminated against because Eco Maori is Maori some lost big time because of their discriminatory behavior.

    Ka kite ano.

  18. Eco maori 18
    2 July 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/SKprXO-f2pM

  19. Eco maori 19
    2 July 2019 at 1:26 pm

    This is a great start into our future of sustainable ways to give our tamariki and mokopuna a healthy happy

    Single-use plastic bag ban only a start – Minister

    Banning single-use plastic bags is only a start, and there's a strategy to toughen product stewardship rules, increase the landfill levy, Associate Environment Minister Eugenie Sage says.

    The plastic bag ban comes into force today, and affects businesses from markets and retailers through to large department stores and supermarkets, and includes online sales.

    To coincide with the ban, the government has announced a $40 million investment in facilities that recycle waste plastics into materials businesses and consumers can use.

    "[The ban] doesn't go far enough, but what is really great is it's started the conversation," Ms Sage told Morning Report.

    "People are now talking about single-use plastics and how we can phase them out.

    "Supermarkets like Countdown and Foodstuffs are now offering people the chance to take reusable containers to the deli counter instead of having plastic containers. People are now thinking about phasing out plastic straws Ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/393323/single-use-plastic-bag-ban-only-a-start-minister