Open mike 29/12/2024

24 comments on “Open mike 29/12/2024 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   29 December 2024 at 6:58 am

   From Tunisia to Egypt, from Egypt to Syria, from Syria to Palestine, from Palestine to Ukraine, two left commentators have consistently taken the side of the people.

   Mehdi Hasan and Owen Jones, arguably the two most astute left commentators in the world today. get together to ask us,;

   Did the Left Fail Syria?

   Reply
   • Paul Rain 1.1

     29 December 2024 at 9:32 pm

     HAHAHAHAH! Owen Jones, Owen Jones who supported the false antisemitism accusations against Corbyn? Owen Jones who supported the lies about Hamas soldiers raping zionist invaders on October 7? Owen Jones who now supports the terrorists who ate the hearts of Syrian civilians and now are busily beheading Christians and Alawites for the crime of defending themselves against 'israel'?

     [When everybody else is taking a well-deserved break, the trolls crawl out from underneath their bridges; they must be bored shitless without the attention their teeny-weeny egos crave – Incognito]

     Reply
     • Jenny 1.1.1

       30 December 2024 at 5:29 pm

       Paul Rain @1.1

       29 December 2024 at 9:32 pm

       HAHAHAHAH! Owen Jones, Owen Jones who supported the false antisemitism accusations against Corbyn……

       Smears nested within smears.

       It's turtles all the way down.

       Owen Jones never supported the false accusations leveled against Jeremy Corbyn that Corbyn was an anti-Semite, far from it.. The record shows that Jones took the side of Jeremy Corbyn and defended Corbyn against the false smears of anti-Semitism leveled against him by his right wing opponents within the British Labour Party.

       From my memory, and a google search to confirm my recollection of those events. Owen Jones vigorously opposed the false accusations of anti-Semitism leveled at the British Labour Party and the British Labour Party leader of the time, Jeremy Corbyn.

       Under sustained attack, Jones did admit to the fact, that a tiny minority of fringe anti-Semitism did exist in the British Labour Party, just as it does in society. Jones strongly condemned the Labour Party candidate who made a false and hurtful accusation that Jewish people were involved in the slave trade.
       Pro-Assad and Pro-Putin Leftists tried to conflate Jones' admission of fact, to smear Jones as supporting the accusations made against Corbyn and the Labour party as being anti-Semitic. And they continue this line of attack against Jones today, alleging that Jones, who now supports the Green Party, thinks the British Green Party are anti-Semitic.

       The Weaponisation of anti-Semitism

       Curtis talks to Owen Jones

       Beginning @44:06 minutes

       ……Given that the Green Party has been doing phenomenally well, I mean they picked up 800 counselors at the local election, it's no surprise they're they're now facing attacks, but specifically on anti-Semitism….

       …..There's all forms of racism in every party, because it exists [in] society.

       But given how we've got people claiming the UN is anti-Semitic, that the green party is harboring sorry anti-Semites, it isn't those of us who said that.

       Anti-Semitism was weaponized and exaggerated under Corbyn's labour …

       It's a smear to say the Labour leadership is anti-Semitic or Jeremy Corbyn is anti-Semitic, or the vast majority of Labour members are anti-Semitic, that's just false.

       There was a small number of people who engaged in either anti-Semitism or anti-Semitic tropes who are not representative, but whose calls hurt the Jewish people, and that's true.

       The claims about Jeremy Corbyn being anti-Semitic are false, they're entirely false and the claims that there was rampant anti-Semitism in the labor leadership [and] membership was entirely false.

       It is true that anti-Semitism is a great evil and that [it] exists, and it's rising, I would say globally. Like no question at all about that.

       And there are those who use false claims about anti-Semitism in order to destroy people who stand up to crimes by the Israeli state, which is first, a fact.

       No one can deny that fact. And they [the false accusations] are dangerous because they actually stop people believing in anti-Semitism. So I would say that's absolutely true.

       You had people, who for example, would spread the idea that the there was a role of Jewish people in the slave trade historically.

       And then when I'm being witch hunted over Palestine, it's like you're not talking about Palestine now, you're talking about a false narrative.

       There was no meaningful involvement by Jewish people in the slave trade historically.

       ….I'm not naming the person, but they did say that, that's the point they made. They alluded to the involvement [of Jewish people in the slave trade] and that is a false history which was actually promoted by Louis Farrakhan from the Nation of Islam.

       The point I make, is there were people who said things which was just completely false and caused hurt.

       And then there were other people who were clearly just being demonized because of their position on Gaza, and there had to be a bit of a demarcation.

       Generally speaking there's no question that anti-Semitism is very real and it needs to be taken on.

       And there are bad faith merchants who defend the role the state of Israel and its crimes, who use false claims of anti-Semitism to demonize their opponents. And that's what they've now done on a mass scale……

       It's just ludicrous, and I think that is unbelievably dangerous and irresponsible.

       And we've seen a war on people who are Jewish.

       I remember defending Joe Bird at the time. Joe Bird who was handed out the Labour party and I defended her at the time when she was attacked. She's now standing for the green party. She's [Jewish]. You know when you got so many people who are Jewish being accused of anti-Semitism, it's just so ludicrous you know, and dangerous, and irresponsible….

       [I have painstakingly removed the time stamps and lightly edited the machine generated transcript for clarity and ease of reading, J.]

       "They're Monsters" | Curtis Talks To Owen Jones – YouTube

       Paul Rain1.1

       29 December 2024 at 9:32 pm

       …….Owen Jones who supported the lies about Hamas soldiers raping zionist invaders on October 7? Owen Jones who now supports the terrorists who ate the hearts of Syrian civilians and now are busily beheading Christians and Alawites….

       1/, Owen Jones never supported the lies about Hamas soldiers committing mass rapes on October 7.

       2/. There is no evidence, that I have seen that the HTS led forces that toppled the Assad regime are eating the hearts of Syrian civilians, or are busily beheading Christians and Alawites,

       3/ There is no evidence that Owen Jones would ever support or deny such atrocities, if they were being committed.

       I could go into more depth to disprove Paul Rain's smears against Jones, But I have probably used up the moderator's patience enough already. Just to say that Paul's wild accusations against Owen Jones are all equally ridiculous.

       Why does Paul Rain hate Owen Jones?

       There are some true believers, calling themselves 'leftists' that have always supported Russian imperialism, and before that Soviet imperialism, who hate anyone who punctures their narrative.

       There is no lie they won't tell or false smear they won't spread to try and discredit anyone who exposes the crimes of the Russian imperialists or their allies.

       Lest we forget.

       Reply
2. joe90 2

   29 December 2024 at 10:34 am

   Kabuki to distract the base?

   

   Reply
   • joe90 2.1

     29 December 2024 at 7:41 pm

     Kabuki to distract the base?

     Perhaps not.

     

     https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:5o6k7jvowuyaquloafzn3cfw/post/3lefh7b2o3c2c?

     Reply
3. georgecom 3

   29 December 2024 at 12:07 pm

   I wonder how the people behind the John Key morphing into Chris Luxon billboard are feeling about the return on their investment, probably very underwhelmed atm. Key wasn't a visionary thinker, charasmatic or a great leader but he did what he was put in place to do, get National elected. he did that 3 times and might have done it a 4th had be not bailed and left Bill "Jack Marshall" English to fail a second time to become PM.

   Luxon clearly isn't a second Key and may not even win 2 elections given current polls, and that most of all is what the money was to achieve. Even Mathew Hooten is panicking. Sure, the 1%ers have had their personal and landlord tax cuts but that's obligatory in exchange for their money. They have had to endure Winston Peters. Willis has crashed the economy so dividends and profits are down, and so far NO mention of any asset sales. Every National government is expected to turn over some state assets into their hands, so far Nada. Not even any state houses up for sale, Chris Bishop was set up perfectly to do that, but no. There is little money to be made building and running houses for the poor, far more lucrative to buy the houses.

   Reply
4. joe90 4

   29 December 2024 at 12:13 pm

   Christmas story of the year.

   .

   Deputies said as he approached the altar, he dropped an onion in the aisle, disturbing the peace of others attending.

   A witness followed Von Goetz as he exited the church to make sure he was leaving and saw him then assault another person by throwing tangerines.

   Later that night, during midnight mass at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Church, Von Goetz allegedly disrupted the service by pouring whiskey into the holy water and threatening to harm parishioners.

   https://www.wsaz.com/2024/12/27/man-arrested-disrupting-christmas-church-services-pouring-whiskey-into-holy-water-deputies-say/?

   Reply
5. Bearded Git 5

   29 December 2024 at 12:30 pm

   More than 240,000 at the first 3 days of the Melbourne test.

   Test match cricket is dead?

   Reply
   • joe90 5.1

     29 December 2024 at 1:02 pm

     Ticket prices.

     >£100 a day in the UK, >$30 here and in Australia.

     https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/132771/how-new-zealand-flipped-the-script-with-test-crowds

     Reply
     • Bearded Git 5.1.1

       29 December 2024 at 1:34 pm

       Yes, getting greedy in England.

       In fact 255,000 in first 3 days at Melbourne I just heard

       Reply
       • alwyn 5.1.1.1

         29 December 2024 at 5:28 pm

         Melbournians are probably the greatest sporting enthusiasts in the world, providing Australians are playing of course.

         In 1997, while I lived there, the All Blacks played a test at the MCG. The crowd was just over 90,000. The majority of the populace had no knowledge of the game but they went anyway. A couple of people I was working with went to see the game. They didn't realise that Rugby League was a different game to Rugby Union but they went. Of course for them, and everybody else in the city, the AFL matches were what really matteres. When it was the VFL (only Melbourne teams) a couple of the Grand Finals were close to 120,000. The ground is smaller these days and the crowd is a full capacity one of 100,000 for the Grand Final. Even club games will get over 80,000 people there.

         Reply
         • Obtrectator 5.1.1.1.1

           29 December 2024 at 7:07 pm

           So in other words, the MCG turns the number of pennies it does through not being dedicated to only one game or code – unlike Lord's or so many other cricket grounds in England.

           Reply
           • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1.1

             29 December 2024 at 7:42 pm

             The main game is the AFL. That is where the money is. There are a minimum of 45 club games there each year and there are a number (probably at least 5) of the finals series. The minimum crowd would probably be about 45,000 and it could go up to about 90,000 for a game like Collingwood vs Carlton. A full MCG was quite an experience to attend.

             All the other sports were carried by the enormous draw that was the AFL.

             I don't whether it still exists, or what it costs, but they had a great scheme to encourage youngsters to follow the game. In the mid nineties you could buy a ticket for kids under 16 that cost 24 dollars and let them go, at no additional cost, to a game a week for the 24 week season. A dollar a game.

             Reply
6. joe90 6

   29 December 2024 at 2:18 pm

   Video/online gaming, podcasts and internet pron. Who needs drugs?

   .

   A new study has experts beaming with hope as it shows teen drug use at a record low, but they admit confusion as to why the trend is happening and how to ensure it continues.

   The annual national Monitoring the Future survey found the use of alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes and e-cigarettes among high schoolers is at its lowest level since the study began. Two-thirds of 12th graders in the survey, which included 24,000 students in total, said they haven’t used any of those substances in the last 30 days, and 90 percent of eighth graders and 80 percent of 10th graders said the same.

   https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5051213-teen-drug-use-vaping-marijuana-alcohol/

   Reply
7. SPC 7

   29 December 2024 at 2:27 pm

   Chapter zero to three degrees.

   Question posed

   https://www.chapterzero.nz/news-and-insights/a-tipping-point-is-imminent-and-its-time-for-our-boardrooms-to-get-uncomfortable

   Answered

   Atlantic current.

   https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=AStlantic+current+goes+down+what+happens

   Reply
   • kejo 7.1

     29 December 2024 at 3:37 pm

     Years behind the times arent they? Sounds to me like The Chapter Zero Steering Committee should put far more effort to getting themselves clued up.

     Reply
8. Subliminal 8

   29 December 2024 at 3:25 pm

   In a foretaste of what is in store for NZ when the Regulatory Standards Bill is passed, Mexico has just lost its dispute involving the ISDS of its FTA with the US. They now have no sovereign ability to determine the health and cultural outcomes associated with their use of corn.

   Mexico has lost the dispute settlement panel brought by the US and Canada over its attempt to ban imports of genetically modified corn for direct human consumption. On Friday (December 20), the arbitration panel ruled in favour of the United States, asserting that Mexico’s 2023 decree banning the use of genetically modified (GM) white corn for human consumption violated the terms of the trade agreement.

   Th ruling says that there are no reasons to reject GMO corn even as Mexico supplied hundreds of peer reviewed studies to back up their claims and

   This, of course, will be news to all the 165,000 people who have filed lawsuits against Bayer for cancers caused by glyphosate, the active ingredient in Monsanto’s Roundup herbicide whose use goes hand-in-hand with Monsanto’s Roundup Ready GMO corn. Bayer has already set aside a whopping $16 billion to cover the costs of litigation, and there are still many more lawsuits pending.

   Not to mention glyphosphate being banned in 18 countries and the consumption of corn in Mexico on average, 10 times higher per person than the US.

   https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/12/with-help-of-usmca-biden-administration-strikes-decisive-blow-against-mexican-food-sovereignty-health-and-global-biodiversity.html

   This is only one aspect of what we will face. NZ will become the first country in the world to embed ISDS mechanisms into legislation and the aim of this Bill is for it and the minster in charge to take complete control over the direction our future takes.

   Paired with the limitations this Bill will impose on TeTiriti our government of any stripe will become a post colonial rubber stamp for resource extraction and the bleeding of our wealth and labor back to the empire.

   Te Tiriti has at least as much value to Pakeha as to Maori. It is the only thing that gives legitimacy to our life here and prevents us from becoming colonial overlords. The partnership that we have been offered should be treasured for the Taonga that it is. It is something worth fighting for.

   Reply
   • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1

     29 December 2024 at 5:42 pm

     Te Tiriti has at least as much value to Pakeha as to Maori.

     Magnates are 'prepping' for polycrises by bending sovereignty to their will

     Let’s not play into Seymour’s hands [20 Nov 2024]
     The message against the coalition Treaty Principles Bill should be simple: the Treaty protects all New Zealanders from corporate exploitation

     The ‘dangerous’ bill flying under the radar [15 Dec 2024]
     New Zealand stands at a pivotal moment in its constitutional development. Not one but two key bills, both driven by the Act Party, signify a profound new direction for the country…

     Written submissions on the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill close on January 7, with consultation on the Regulatory Standards Bill ending on January 13. No special expertise is required to make a submission on either bill.

     https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/dec/28/we-need-dramatic-social-and-technological-changes-is-societal-collapse-inevitable

     https://scitechdaily.com/ai-exposes-accelerated-climate-change-3c-temperature-rise-imminent/

     Reply
   • Obtrectator 8.2

     29 December 2024 at 7:19 pm

     Once allowed to become entrenched here, foreign-owned businesses will basically be able to do what they like, whether or not their activities are facilitated by local legislation and/or FTAs. Precedents go all the way back through Hawai'i in 1893 to "British" India in the 18th century.

     Reply
     • Subliminal 8.2.1

       29 December 2024 at 7:49 pm

       The Treaty since 1970 has slowly but surely had its principles enshrined into NZ law. It means that the Crown is no longer free to dispose of assets on any and every whim without first consulting Maori who have become the sole guardians and protectors of the NZ commons.

       Most recently was when the Key govt sold 49% of NZ power companies. The courts upheld Maori concerns but allowed the sale since 51% ownership is still a controlling share but the implication is that anything over 49% sale is contestable.

       Drowsy above supplies this outline from the spinoff of the many ways that Te Tiriti has become a major handbrake on asset sales.

       https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-09-2024/the-real-reason-behind-acts-push-to-redefine-the-treaty-principles

       It is not so much foreign owned business as such that is the problem but rather, the govt ability to regulate and determine, what they can do with regard to public health and the environment, and the incorporation into law of inviolable private property rights that have privileges above personal, social and environmental health and well being.

       Unmitigated and unregulated rape and pillage of the environment will become the norm.

       Reply
9. Ad 9

   29 December 2024 at 9:06 pm

   The RNZ series on the first Lange government is worth your time.

   Tonight they did the rise of Lange and the 1984 election.

   Reply
   • thinker 9.1

     29 December 2024 at 10:24 pm

     I got a charity book sale book called "Revolution" which was the companion to a tv series on the neolibs, but I couldn't stand to go through it again.

     If you want an honest summary of those times, YouTube has "someone else's country" and "in a land of plenty".

     I graduated uni at the end of 1985, and was looking for jobs and constantly competing with experienced people who'd been laid off. I had 9 jobs in as many years, some longer than others, and found myself at what's now winz, doing their "job club" initiative to find work.

     So my proper 'career' started late and it's approaching it's zenith without blossoming as the generation before me did, who had no neoliberalism and more job security.

     Glad RNZ is doing a series on it for people who never went through it. We're closer to 1984 than ever before, methinks.

     Reply
     • Ad 9.1.1

       29 December 2024 at 10:42 pm

       That Colin James book does capture something of it.

       What NZ needed was another combination as good as Clark and Cullen for 9 years to return our coherence and institutional strength.

       It's 40 years ago so only 20% of New Zealand has living memory of that 1984 moment.

       Reply
   • tWig 9.2

     31 December 2024 at 1:16 pm

     Link please, the RNZ podcast page is alphabetical.

     Reply

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