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Open mike 29/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:52 am, October 29th, 2014 - 156 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

mickey savage wonders wtf ht william joyceOpen mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

156 comments on “Open mike 29/10/2014”

  1. mickysavage 1

    A rock star economy is one where the managers steal all the profits …

  2. Peter 2

    Today’s Herald focuses on ACC and Health public sector related fraud http://www.nzherald.co.nz/fraud/news/article.cfm?c_id=213&objectid=11349645

    It seems they have conveniently forgotten much larger private sector fraud and tax fraud estimates by companies and individuals http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/20153949/the-cost-of-economic-crime

    Yet again NZH showing their true colours with what appears to be less than half a story? Apart from that they are relying on initial Radio NZ investigations to prompt them into writing something about a topic the NACTS would prefer to bury.

    • Paul 2.1

      Now we know what it was like for Russians as they read Pravda in the 1950s.

    • just saying 2.2

      Great, a fresh campaign against ACC claimants in being launched. It will merely brush the surface in regard to fraud committed by ACC employees and will not go near fraud perpertrated against claimants by the corporation in their denial of legitimate entitlements. It will tryrannise a vulnerable group of people. We know this.

      So thanks David Parker for this completely predictable response. The government relies on this kind of “opposition” from Labour:

      Labour Party finance spokesman David Parker expressed disquiet that the report had been buried and its conclusions redacted.

      “In order for people to be willing to pay taxes and levies they’ve got to have confidence that other people are doing likewise and the system is not being rorted … transparency is important.”.

      • marty mars 2.2.1

        + 1

        fuck me – system being rorted? – open your eyes parker – we have a two headed coin with the gnats and labour and the house wins every fucken time.

      • Murray Rawshark 2.2.2

        During WW2, Australia had the Coastwatchers to keep guard against Japanese invasion of their Northern coast. During the present class war, Labour has the Roofwatchers to guard against the spending of 1c more than they absolutely have to on the needy and vulnerable. Parker has shown he is a valued member, along with Shearer. The Fish Ambassador position has already gone, but perhaps NAct could think up something else for these loyal servants?

  3. North 3


    More in the style of Michelle Boag’s bullshit line – ‘The problem is, all these young first-home buyers want to live in Herne Bay…….’

    From a many times millionaire real estate agent. How strange is life ? Poachers turned gamekeepers everywhere. From the prime minister down.

    • Paul 3.1

      Yes, it’s got nothing to do with the price of houses in Auckland.
      Just blame young people.
      That’s easy, isn’t it.
      Put the ladder up. I’m fine.
      The selfish neoliberal society.
      Thanks Roger Douglas for destroying a once great country.

    • millsy 3.2

      Why do people not admit that house prices are used as a method to keep out ‘undesirables’ – gated communities without the gates.

      And ironically these millionaire real estate agents would have a nice Housing Corp loan and family benefit capitalisation to help them on the property ladder, and the higher wages would have made it easier to pay the mortgage.

      • North 3.2.1

        I’m pretty sure the real estate agent concerned and his family NEVER had to rely on the good offices of the state as far as their own housing was concerned. In their case the good offices of successive governments took the shape of restricting to a few the capacity to demand massive commissions. By dint of which huge benefit was derived from massive inflation in house prices. In other words they know SFA about the lot of the ordinary people – prattle pejoratively about the ordinary people they do (dishonestly masking self-rationalisation) but really KNOW ? Of course not.

  4. Paul 4

    The Herald acting as an outlet for the TAB.
    “Get your bets down”
    Good to see the Herald takes a responsible stance towards gambling.
    What. A. Rag.


  5. and tho’ this govt can be condemned for having done nothing about over 300,000 children living in poverty..

    ..the other takeaway is that these figures are the same as they were in 2008..

    ..after nine years of a labour govt..and a booming economy…

    ..take a bow..!..labour..!

    ..and yet labour seem to have learnt nothing from those mistakes..

    ..as their 2014 election-campaign policies offered absolutely nothing for the poorest..

    ..absolutely s.f.a..


    ‘(ed:..that is because they just ‘don’t care’ that their policies grow/exacerbate poverty..

    ..they are blinded by their twisted neo-liberal ideology..

    ..and they mask their ‘don’t care’..

    ..with those ‘twisted’ ideological-justifications..’



    • The Al1en 5.1

      For the 32nd time 🙄

      • marty mars 5.1.1

        and true again for the 32nd time – wake up mate!

        • The Al1en

          Questionable whether that’s really an accurate summary 99-08,, but beside that point of contention, repeatedly banging on and on about it changes things how exactly, mate?

          Everyone knows there are problems, it’s solutions we need, not mouth almighties getting narked about 15yrs ago back when labour were popular because he thinks it’s a go’er of a meme. Seems like pu’s rewriting history doesn’t find too much favour outside the wavy margins. Must be easy for some to view the lies for what they are and move on.

          Has to be said, if mana/mip or any other extremist fringe party had the answers they wouldn’t be 1% parties with no mps.

          • marty mars

            get over your fixation with Mana mate – it makes you look foolish

            repetition isn’t a bad thing, quite often it takes a few times before the message is even understood let alone accepted

            are the figures as bad as the were in 2008

            did we not have a labour government for 9 years

            did the last campaign have policies that directly offered something for the poorest in our society

            they seem valid questions to me and although you might not like that they come from phil and are written in his style or even the conclusions he draws from them.

            As for solutions – the are obvious when the problem is actually understood and the problem is not just poverty, it is the structural apparatus that generates poverty and the political forces that acquiesce to that structure.

            • The Al1en

              Come on, it’s not a fixation with mana to point out that pu’s election pick (the context), got fuck all vote on their poverty busting platform. If one is where it’s at policy wise and the direction we should be heading in, then having zero mps says otherwise.

              My guess, the rabid retro anti poverty nonsense from pu means nothing outside his imagination and those few serial agree merchant ‘well saids’, but you can cite constant repetition as a good thing if you want.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                IMP got sufficient party votes to have both Hone Harawira and Laila Harre in Parliament. Just 750 more votes in Te Tai Tokerou would have done it.

                That would have been an excellent start to build a significant minor Parliamentary party upon.

                • The Al1en

                  But they didn’t, so coulda means nada.

                  No mass appeal at all cutting through society outside the political junkies on blogs it would seem. Mana/mip didn’t even win the maori vote, so not surprising their message fell over.
                  Doesn’t mean anti poverty is wrong, just it’s not a popular topic in the real world. Shouting how shit labour were 99-08 is just bollocks spin for the ‘look at me, aren’t I hard’ sake of it.

                  Who would you prefer to have in government CV and why? Clark or key

                  • you are fixated and dogmatic about Mana but it is funny

                    Antipoverty is not popular in the real world – jeepers good enough reason there to keep going on and on and on and on and on about it until it is popular in the real world – of course those in poverty can just suffer and struggle until then – tough shit for them eh

                    • The Al1en

                      One man’s dogmatic is another man’s honest evaluation. I have no position as to which you think applicable.

                      The rest of your bit is moot, especially the barbs, as it’s not what I suggested, meant, believe or otherwise.
                      As a vote winner, the poverty issue sucks donkeys balls . Sad fact, but one the extremities have to take on board for the next election.

                      Can’t make a sandwich when all you have is filling.

                      “simpleton is perhaps generous eh mate”

                      Shame you couldn’t keep it from being personal, but it’s okay, I won’t make you cry again, I’ll just let you get on with it, even if ‘it’ is posting twisted maliciousness. 😉

                    • If you base your argument on erroneous contentions that is simple. But sorry for calling you a simpleton.

                      Popular is overrated especially when you want to shift the weight of society and the shift is against popular opinion.

                    • The Al1en

                      “If you base your argument on erroneous contentions that is simple.”

                      That was the total gist of my ‘for the 32nd time’ post. Humourous I find it applied to me for stating the obvious about the policy dogs in the extreme wings unrepresented living rooms.

                      “Popular is overrated especially when you want to shift the weight of society and the shift is against popular opinion.”

                      Not really, it’s not. Popular is vitally important in the fight to mainstream an issue to the fore of common consciousness. Being correct just isn’t enough. No mining on doc land gets 80-100,000 mum and dad nz’s down Queen st, because the anti movement had the measure of the argument and knew how to work it.

                      Like said, plenty of lesson for the extremers to learn before 2017.

                      “But sorry for calling you a simpleton.”

                      Life is like a box of chocolates and all that 🙂

                    • nah, popular is key, you can take your popular, I’ll keep my convictions and my “twisted maliciousness” and I’d suggest making people cry, even in your own imagination, is not something to skite about even if you think you’re being funny.

                    • The Al1en

                      “you can take your popular, I’ll keep my convictions”

                      Who said we can’t have both?

                      “I’d suggest making people cry, even in your own imagination, is not something to skite about even if you think you’re being funny.”

                      So your invective is okay, but mine’s sh1te. Okay, got it – Hometown rules, hometown judges 🙄
                      No worries, Ill get on getting on with it.

              • ” that pu’s election pick (the context), got fuck all vote on their poverty busting platform. If one is where it’s at policy wise and the direction we should be heading in, then having zero mps says otherwise.”

                simpleton is perhaps generous eh mate 🙂

          • phillip ure

            “.. the lies..”

            cd u plse detail just one ‘lie’ i have told..

            • The Al1en

              Are you engaging? lol

              • you accuse me of lying..

                ..put up..or shut the fuck up..

                ..you fucken simpleton..

                • The Al1en


                  “‘(ed:..that is because they just ‘don’t care’ that their policies grow/exacerbate poverty….they are blinded by their twisted neo-liberal ideology..”

                  Go on, citate away.

                  • i am not going to play that game..explain to the idiot..

                    ..so no ‘lies’ then..

                    ..communication ends..

                    • The Al1en

                      “..put up..or shut the fuck up..”

                      “‘(ed:..that is because they just ‘don’t care’ that their policies grow/exacerbate poverty….they are blinded by their twisted neo-liberal ideology..”

                      “Go on, citate away.”

                      “i am not going to play that game..explain to the idiot…communication ends..”

                      Okay, maybe when you feel like providing the proof to back up your editorial we’ll try again.

                  • Murray Rawshark

                    If that’s about the Labour caucus, it’s a reason inference from their actions and statements. Far from being a lie. For all his apparent faults, I don’t think Phil is a liar.

                • The Al1en

                  “you accuse me of lying….put up..or shut the fuck up..”

                  Open mike 21/10/2014

    • miravox 5.2

      Of course, New Zealand’s figures are not complete and are for 2010 because the government
      doesn’t measure child poverty.

      NZ data is from

      New Zealand, 2009–2010.
      The statistics on child income poverty for New Zealand
      have been taken from:
      Perry, Bryan (2011),‘Household Incomes in New Zealand:
      Trends in indicators of inequality and hardship 1982 to
      2010’, Ministry of Social Development, Wellington,
      July 2011.
      This paper elaborates microdata from the 2009-2010
      Household Economic Survey of Statistics New Zealand.
      Income data from this survey refer to 2010.

      • phillip ure 5.2.1

        “..Of course, New Zealand’s figures are not complete and are for 2010..”

        ..tho’ a marked/any improvement from then to now couldn’t really be expected..

        ..probably the opposite..

        ..(and/but i am encouraged by both key and tolley making firm promises to do something about it..

        ..and they are clearly on notice from the media..

        ..that there are expectations they will actually do something about this..

        ..tho i hasten to add..i am not holding my breath..)

        • miravox

          Yeah if the figures were going to be better NAct would have been keen to measure them.

          How would you know if Key and Tolley are improving things when they’re not measured? NAct-speak for sure.

          • phillip ure

            and of course..a real head-fuck/knee-slap/w.t.f! from this record of neglect from labour..

            ..from then right up to now..

            ..is that parker is now basing his leadership campaign on the ‘story’ that labour have been too focused on caring for the vulnerable’..(!)

            .and he wants to change this..



            ..and labour are still walking around scratching their heads/puzzled as to why that disposessed million didn’t flock to the ballot-box to elect them..

            ..they need to have a ‘review’ to find out why..?


  6. les 6

    Aspergers…just read the 10 symptoms in the NZH.Is this just a made up condition?

    • JanM 6.1

      No, it’s a form of autism

      • les 6.1.1

        whats the treatment….a regime of drugs from the friendly muti nationals,who have discovered so many ‘conditions’ that we were unaware of years ago.

    • BM 6.2

      I think the issue is that a lot of poorly raised kids display the same type of symptoms which rather casts a cloud over people who do have this condition.

      • marty mars 6.2.1

        What symptoms do these so called ‘poorly raised kids’ display?

        • BM

          I wanted to replace poorly with badly but lost the ability to edit my comment.

          What symptoms do these so called ‘poorly raised kids’ display?

          Poor social skills.

          • JanM

            Poor social skills – does that include accusing others from a point of total ignorance?

            • wekarawshark


              BM, if you lack the ability to distinguish between people on the Autism/Aspies spectrum and people who’ve had certain kinds of upbringings, you should probably STFU.

              • The Al1en

                Maybe he was thinking of adt kids.
                If he was, I agree with his point about badly raised children, as some I have had first hand contact with just needed enforced boundaries and not ritalin.

                • wekarawshark


                  • The Al1en

                    Sorry, add/adht

                    And not all, obviously, just the couple of children I have known personally.

                    • wekarawshark

                      Yes, sure. And I’m of the generation where many raised their kids to be brats, but I wouldn’t look at them and think Aspergers. BM’s comment just demonstrated he doesn’t understand what Aspergers is but feels he can comment based on ignorance and perpetuating ignorance.

                      I can’t find anything in the Herald on Aspergers. Does anyone have a link?

                    • The Al1en

                      I looked earlier and I couldn’t find a story or 10 signs either.

                      Yes, seems like he may be confused.

          • marty mars

            that is imo a result of the type of society they live in not ‘bad’ parenting

          • Minarch

            Your right BM

            those Kings college kids are animals, its sad when parents fob their kids off like that,

            the damage there going to do to society when they get older doesn’t bear thinking about and whos going to have to pay to fix it, the tax payer thats who !

            , Mind you when you got to the most deadly school in the country you’ve got to be a bit of hard arse eh

      • Molly 6.2.2

        You are showing a lot of ignorance on this topic.

        Just one – off the top of my head – is confusing poor social skills with lack of ethics and good character.

        I can think of many adept social performers that lack integrity or basic honesty.

        FASD also duplicates many of the traits that are indicative of those on the spectrum, but includes other impulse control and decision making impairment, and often physical characteristics that can be used to aid diagnosis.

        In both cases, autism spectrum or FASD, “poor raising” is a snide and uninformed throwaway comment.

    • Colonial Rawshark 6.3

      Aspergers…just read the 10 symptoms in the NZH.Is this just a made up condition?

      Seriously, get a grip mate. I mean, is depression a made up condition too, from your point of view.

    • emergency mike 6.4

      No, it’s a very real condition. Try google.

  7. “..Burger King and McDonald’s Pay Fast Food Workers $20 an Hour in Denmark..

    ..Enough to pay their bills – save some money –

    – and even go out with friends.

    Why can’t we do that here?..”



    • The Al1en 7.1

      Interesting. You say meat is murder yet will campaign for a living wage for burger flippers.
      Animal < Human. That's progress, well done.

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        oh..!..you’re right..!

        ..i also shouldn’t talk about poverty..

        ..as so many poor people eat meat..eh..?

        ..little minds..and little things…eh..?

        ..(a bit too much too loud drum ‘n bass..?..y’reckon..?..)

        • vto

          are you two going to fill up the screen again today with your punches and counter-punches over the same things again….?

          a hint: keep the exchanges short as it is easier to quickly get the gist and have a giggle…

          • The Al1en

            “are you two going to fill up the screen again today with your punches and counter-punches over the same things again….?”

            Not me, I have to work for a living. Perhaps this afternoon.
            I guess it all depends how much guff pu posts between now and then, so never say never. 😉

          • phillip ure

            @ vto..

            “..are you two going to fill up the screen again today with your punches and counter-punches over the same things again….?..”


          • adam

            vto – i was going to ask them to get a room…

        • The Al1en

          If you like drum and bass, go for it. I won’t blame your musical taste for your piss poor observational and communication skills.

          But it is still progress that you now put humans first.
          Long may that continue.

          • marty mars

            putting humans first is one thing but when everything else is relegated to a distant speck on the horizon (as is imo the case) then we end up with a non-sustainable situation for everything including the humans.

      • Chooky 7.1.2

        Adolf Hitler and Vegetarianism …wait for the squeals from pu


        • phillip ure

          no..i’m not engaging with you..

          ..you are rapidly exposing yrslf as as big an idiot as that fool allen..

          ..there is much evidence..from people close to hitler..that this was a public-persona..

          ..and that really he wasn’t..(chef/details of late-nite snacks enjoyed by him and eva braun..)

          ..but i can’t be fucked making the case..

          ..’cos really..w.t.f. does it mean/signify..about anything..

          ..whether or not hitler was a vegetarian..?

          ..it is a meaningless/dead-end debate..

          ..so off ya go..!..fill yer boots..!

        • minarch

          “Adolf Hitler and Vegetarianism …wait for the squeals from pu


          that was just weak/lame……….

          • Chooky

            @ minarch….Sorry it is not “just weak/ lame”

            …it is meant to show that not ALL vegetarians/vegans are holier than thou and totally beyond moral reproach or question…some can be quite monstrous as was Adolf Hitler ( or do you deny this?!)

            For some time I have shown sympathy with and have conceded quite a lot of pu’s points about vegetarianism/veganism … and I have also done it with good humour …but I draw the line at him bullying me, making false accusations and accusing me of anti Semitism because i eat pork

            ( which is after all a New Zealand dish and one which both the British and the Maori particularly like)

            ( see The Allen on ‘Open Mike’ 27 October 8.38pm)

            • minarch

              cmon really, Hitler ?

              its bit much

              Hitler also injected Meth daily, what are you trying to say ?

              • McFlock

                meth is a gateway drug into vegetarianism? 🙂

              • Chooky

                @ minarch …have you read the wki link?….or are you trying to throw in a red herring about meth?

                I didnt see meth mentioned in that wiki article about Hitler being a vegetarian….what has meth got to do with it?

                • minarch

                  national socialism is the gate way drug to bad jokes !

                  I dont need to read a wiki link about Hitler,

                  Thats what the history channel is for dammit !

                  • Chooky

                    it is NOT a joke…so you admit you haven’t and wont read the wiki article on Hitler and vegetarianism…interesting

                    • minarch

                      your just confusing me now….

                      Hitlers vegetarianism is well known, he was tee-total as well

                      is there something im missing ?

                    • i think that to avoid being like hitler..

                      ..you have to neck animal-flesh..

                      ..and glug down the piss..

                      ..i think that is the point trying to be made..

                    • and don’t drink tea – keep away from that hitlerformnghabit

                    • Chooky

                      @ minarch…. so you admit Hitler was a vegetarian…”Hitlers vegetarianism is well known”…. unlike pu, who denies Hitler was a vegetarian!

                      ….the point is vegetarians/vegans /non pork eaters like pu should sometimes get off their righteous high horse and stop lecturing and guilt tripping and bullying meat eaters and accusing them of all sorts of things …. when being a vegetarian /vegan/non pork eater is in itself not the high road to absolute moral superiority…(as some of these people/castes/religions/ideologies would like us lesser meat eating mortals to believe)

                      eg the vegetarian Hitler is a case in point

                      ( in fact the psychology of Hitler is quite interesting …if you read that wiki link…because he was quite moral when it came to animals).


                    • chris73

                      Can’t we just accept that no matter our different philosophies and political leanings that bacon is in fact delicious and that vegans, bless them, are wrong

                    • The Al1en

                      “vegetarians/vegans /non pork eaters like pu should sometimes get off their righteous high horse and stop lecturing and guilt tripping and bullying meat eaters and accusing them of all sorts of things”

                      Ironic that supposed eating healthy make them full of nasty sh1t.
                      You just ignore his rantings and munch down on the little piggy sandwich who tasted great all the way home.

                    • Chooky

                      @ The Allen and chris 73… thankyou for that licence to indulge …makes me feel much better already

                      * Maori hangi…hot stone steam- cooked pork and puha and kumara …heavenly !

                      * English pork pies …yummy..out of this world !

                      * toasted bacon, pineapple and cucumber chillie sandwich …divine…7th heaven!

                      ( too bad about the piggie…but piggie is already in heaven)


                    • The Al1en

                      I don’t actually eat much meat at all, probably just a little more than pu in reality, and certainly not pork which would be far too close to cannibalism for comfort, but you have every right to eat a pig if you want without spiteful weak constitution nobodies viciously slagging you off for it on the web.

    • minarch 7.2

      you realize they have NO minimum wage laws in Denmark ?

      Due to a strong trade union movement, wages in Denmark are generally high though Negotiated minimum wage is approximately $20/hour (USD)

      they dodged a bullet with the Euro as well !

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.2.1

        Yes they did. In essence Eurozone countries ceeded sovereignty over their currency, to the European Central Bank. Sort of like NZ becoming another state of Australia, and having our currency, forex and interest rate policies controlled out of Canberra.

  8. Foreign waka 8

    Listening to Mrs Trolley and Mrs Bennett this morning in regards to Child poverty and housing of people living in caravans makes my blood boil. Truly, there are a myriad of excuses and no relief in sight. Global Financial Crisis is still being quoted and I for one can not hear this anymore. In a time where corporates make mega profits and bank workers strike because the bank is not happy to make more billions and in the same breath talk about a crisis is just beyond belief. How stupid those people think the population is?
    At the same time the court has to decide on a case of equal pay. Another Pandora’s box is opened. The low wage economy is being carried by women as they are paid about 30% less then man. To remedy this from happening again, the employment law is being changes and rushed through so that the rich can keep their spoils. Angst rains supreme. I wonder what the actual plan here is, because all those snippets put together spells a peasant economy where democratic freedom will be lost.

    • Skinny 8.1

      Driving down wages in New Zealand takes a step closer. Shameful outfit in charge, let’s hear the complaints when idiot workers who voted National begin to get hit in the pocket.

      The Employment Relations Bill is going to be debated tonight (after 7:30pm) for the last part of the Committee Stage.
      This will leave only the third reading, which could happen either tomorrow or Thursday – so expecting the legislation to be passed this week.
      Royal Assent usually happens within 2-3 days.
      So the Bill, if it is not amended, will come into force 4 months after the date on which it receives the Royal assent.  So if passed this week as expected, it would come into force at the end of February/start of March next year.
      This is the link to the Bill as going through Committee Stage http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2013/0105/latest/DLM5160206.html?src=qs (It says it is being taken through by Simon Bridges but, as you’ll know, Michael Woodhouse has taken over as the new Minister).

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

        Shameful outfit in charge, let’s hear the complaints when idiot workers who voted National begin to get hit in the pocket.

        A relative who voted National now works 60+ hours per week, is fairly insecure in his position and is struggling to make ends meet still thinks voting National was the best the best thing ever.

        A lot of people who vote National do so because they think it’s the best thing ever and just won’t see the evidence even when it’s happening to them.

        • Skinny

          Yes and watching either ( can’t recall which one)The Nation or Q & A the other day, I saw an interview with a South Auckland woman of Pacfic island decent, who said she candidate voted the Labour candidate and party voted National. She liked John Key. And what the nice Mr Key asked for he got, ‘the party vote.’

          This is exactly what annoys me, that Labour never learnt their lesson from the 2011 election, where they never campaigned with the party vote strategy. The Greens did and got a great result. So National saw this mistake and in all their messaging plugged for the party vote, going as far to put an orange tape across their hoards which said “your party vote is crucial” this in the final 10 days leading up to polling day.

          Human nature dictates plenty of voters see they have 2 votes and if there not too politically aware will vote split. The other thing was no nothing Labour newbie candidates and their campaign team were allowed to run a candidate vote campaign. I had one candidate and their team on, and pretty much got told to fuck off and mind my own business. I am yet to run into them but I will where I will rub their nose in it at the poor party vote result. The candidate still got totally thrashed, but the party vote should have been more if they solely asked for the party vote.

  9. les 9

    John Key from’3410′-I’ve always thought that the appeal of John Key was fairly obvious. He’s simply the embodiment of what “we” would all want ourselves to be; normal, happy, successful, popular, wildly wealthy, and yet not (or, at least, not usually appearing to be) one who considers himself better than the rest of us.

    That seems to widely be the measure of a leader these days. Not excellence in governance, but rather something more like a mascot (of New Zealand).

    Even his very name perfectly captures the blend of normalcy and success that “we” look for in a mascot……………..pretty good summation I would say.Which Labour candidate for leadership resembles that description the most?

    • vto 9.1

      That does not paint the full picture les so don’t be fooled. Such a view may be the case in a society that is splintered by individualism and self-interest. Such a view may be the case in a society where shallow is the new depth and everything must be condensed to a soundbite. That may be the case in a society which doesn’t care about the downtrodden and suffering, or the quality of its structure and internal relations. That may be the case with some New Zealanders today (well quite a few actually).

      All of that just shows how poorly our society is today. The proof of this poorliness is John Key himself and the statistics of worsening measures. Plus yourself.

      Poor you les.

      Societies wax and wane les. History shows this.

      wake up

      • les 9.1.1

        wide awake…it may be shallow,but its reality…ignoring reality no matter how distasteful it may be, is an exercise in futility.

        • vto

          sheesh les, you really do have a limited capacity eh…

          Who said anything about ignoring reality? Not me. I would suggest that such reality has most definitely to be acknowledged. Without such an acknowledgment then there can be no way of improving things. I have already acknowledged that reality ….

          but you know les …… you can lie down and accept things, or you can do something about them.

          It seems you are one of those that just takes what is dished up then.

          Poor you again les.

          • les

            well vto,apart from being very condescending, you also make so many assumptions,and are so enamoured with your own viewpoint ,that I will leave you to admire your own reflections.

        • Foreign Waka

          Yes, and after the machine of envy is really rived up and some of the unsuccessful impatient people make a run for it criminality will rise. And this in turn will invite the authority to monitor the lives of the citizen of the country, as a preventive measure of cause. And before we know, its like Germany in the 30’s. Only those who do not know History (all of it) repeat the mistakes. Greed has and is the driving force of all wars.

  10. Clemgeopin 10

    Millions face years on the breadline: Britain has more long-term low-paid workers than ever.

    A generation of Britons is destined to spend years languishing in low-paid jobs barely above the minimum wage, with the number in poorly paid work at a historic high, a major report will reveal this week.

    More than five million workers are in low-paid work, with the proportion of people on low salaries rising from 21 to 22 per cent last year, according to the new research by the Resolution Foundation think-tank. It badly dents hopes of an economic recovery driven by consumer spending: millions are in jobs so poorly paid that they have little if anything left to spend after their basic needs have been met.

    Not much different from the plight of the low paid workers in NZ in our own ‘Rock Star Economy’! The income and wealth gap is expanding faster and faster due to the marvels of the uncontrolled free market stupidity and the ineptitude of the stupid useless governments,

    Read more details here:


    • Chooky 10.1

      @ Clem….rt’s Keiser Report is also a good analysis of what is going on in Britain and USA …and of course if you join the dots…what is happening and will happen here in NZ unless we stop it


      • Chooky 10.1.1

        also on Keiser Report ..an interview with Helena Norberg _Hodge …on corporates eg TPP over-riding democracies…she is an advocate for anti- globalisation in economics and values ( think local) ‘Voices of Hope in a Time of Crisis’; ‘Economics of Happiness’

        …on corporate driven media ( not media for the people/democracy but media for the corporates and corporate driven governements)

        (eg. in NZ attacks on Cunlffe and the Left by PR consultants posing as journalists and political commentators)

        …and media driven eugenics

        ( in NZ an example would be onslaught on Hone Harawira and Mana/Int from the media eg Herald and certain tv and radio hosts)

  11. millsy 12

    I see Len Brown wants to slap Aucklanders using the motorways with a $2 toll with all the usual susects (Council for Infrastructure Development, Chamber of Commerce, etc) in support.

    Never mind that those on low incomes (ie the army of cleaners that travel from Brown’s heartland to clean offices in the CBD) will bear the brunt of having to shit out over $1000 per year to get where they need to go.

    • Chooky 12.1

      yes motorways must NOT be privatised or tolled

      • karol 12.1.1

        At first sight I thought a congestion toll on the motorways was a good idea – help to promote more us of public transport. But, on reflection, if the public transport doesn’t offer a really good service, it’ll just push more vehicles onto non-motorway roads, through residential communities.

        Also, Julie Anne Genter has a really good point:

        Auckland doesn’t need tolls if we prioritise the congestion free network. #smarttransport https://www.greens.org.nz/news/press-releases/all-auckland-transport-options-should-be-considered … via @NZGreens

        Her press release:

        All options for meeting Auckland’s transport needs should be considered, including reprioritising the transport budget away from wasteful spending on motorways, the Green Party said today.
        “We are supportive of Aucklanders having an open debate about funding, but the debate should not be restricted to funding. What gets funded should also be on the table.

        “Aucklanders have the option of meeting the city’s transport needs without rate hikes, regional fuel taxes, road tolls or congestion charges.

        “The cost of implementing Auckland’s Congestion Free Network by 2030 is estimated at around $10 billion, which is 40 percent less than Auckland’s Integrated Transport Programme proposes to spend on new transport projects over that same time period.

        “Motorway tolls and rate rises would not be necessary if both Auckland and central government made the Congestion Free Network the priority – this hasn’t been presented as an option.

        “Huge patronage growth in public transport means Auckland desperately needs investment in rail and improved bus services now.

        “When more people can take buses and trains, and walk and cycle safely, existing roads work better.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.2

      I’m fully supportive of such a toll – as long as the businesses are the ones that directly pay for it along with all other travelling costs (including time) incurred by the people they employ.

      • weka 12.2.1

        And those without employers?

        • Draco T Bastard

          I suggest not going when the motorway is congested.

          • karol

            Yes, but the unemployed would still have to pay the toll to get about the city. And what about if they needed to get across the city to go to a job interview?

          • wekarawshark

            ok, I have to pick up my elderly mother from her relief care by 6pm. What do you suggest I do?

            Sorry, but your suggestions are at odds with fairness and the notion of all people being equal. I think there are better ways of dealing with congestion that don’t discriminate.

      • TheContrarian 12.2.2

        And if it is the weekend…?

        • Draco T Bastard

          Not a lot of congestion in the weekend so I doubt if they’ll be charging at that time.

          • karol

            The plan:

            There are two motorway user charge options:

            The first is a flat rate of $2 from 6am to 7pm on weekdays and $1 from 6am-7pm at weekends. Nights are free.

            The second option has variable weekday charges from $1.30 (10am-3pm), $2 on the shoulder and $2.80 at the morning (7am-9am) and evening (4pm-6pm) peaks. A $1.30 charge would apply at weekends from 6am-7pm. Nights are free.

  12. Draco T Bastard 13

    Naomi Klein: Writing on the wall

    “There is a way in which climate change is a revelation,” she says. “It is a message telling us that our system is broken.”

    Klein is unflinching in her assessment of where decades of international climate negotiations have gotten us: “This incrementalist approach has failed. Emissions are up 61 per cent from the time we started talking, negotiating seriously about emission reduction [in 1992]. That’s a catastrophic failure.”

    And it is a catastrophic failure and we will continue to fail as long as we listen to the rich and the corporations. We need to do what is right and stop catering to the greed.

    She’s quick to point out the ineffectiveness of emissions trading market schemes – including New Zealand’s.

    “If civilisation is on the line,” she says. “It doesn’t make sense for us to be creating a convoluted market that’s prone to boom and bust and is a fraud magnet.

    “Fraud has been a huge part of the carbon market, and why wouldn’t it be? As soon as word gets out that you’re trading air, guess who shows up?

    “We have so many examples of carbon markets failing. We don’t have any of carbon markets succeeding.”

    More market fundamentalism won’t cure us of the problems caused by market fundamentalism.

  13. from Project Jonah – I like what they do.

    “Sad news this morning of a dead humpback whale which has washed up on the Kapiti Coast, Wellington. DoC are at the scene and we would ask that people stay away as the whale is quite bloated and decomposed.”

    I am not in agreement that people stay away – go and see and smell and experience.

  14. Jenny Kirk 15

    To the person who posted me an anonymous letter about David Shearer – all I will say is that it appears it okay with you that David Shearer made spiteful comments about David Cunliffe immediately after the general election, and said he should go from Parliament, but its NOT okay for me to say similar things about David Shearer !
    That seems like a bit of hypocrisy to me.

  15. Penny Bright 16


    “At the lunch Banks asked Mr Dotcom for support and told him that $25,000 was enough from one donor, Mr Jones said.”

    So – if John Banks KNEW the identity of donor Kim Dotcom – why was this donation listed as ‘anonymous’?

    Was John Banks’ Treasurer present during this meeting and this conversation between John Banks and Kim Dotcom, regarding this requested donation from Kim Dotcom?


    So – how could John Banks rely on his Treasurer to prepare his candidate’s returns accurately, if his Treasurer was not present at all meetings at which John Banks requested donations, particularly THIS one?

    John Banks signed his candidate’s returns for the 2010 Auckland Mayoralty.

    What happened to the famous ACT policy of ‘taking personal responsibility’?

    I predict that John Banks will NOT win this appeal.

    Penny Bright


  16. Philip Ferguson 17

    Hi folks,

    Another busy time at Redline, the pro-worker / anti-capitalist blog.

    The most recent article we’ve stuck up is veteran trade union activist Don Franks’ on why and how we need to wreck National’s plan to take away workers’ guaranteed tea breaks:http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/ways-to-wreck-the-teabreak-busting-bill/

    Please do email the url for Don’s article to as many people as you can. Workers and unions can’t keep rolling over; we have to start drawing some lines in the sand.

    Tony Norfield looks at some aspects of modern capitalism’s dependence on never-ending credit and the problems this leads to: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/moribund-capitalism-the-credit-fix/

    From the vaults, we have a 2007 article from a journal many of us were involved in; the article looks at the recent history of left-wing workers’ protests at Labour Party conferences: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/28/from-the-vaults-the-escalating-history-of-labour-party-conference-protest/

    Michael Roberts reviews four new books from inside and outside the British and US establishment, looking at how The Establishment (the ruling class) rules, changes since the GFC, and Marx: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/books-in-review-from-establishment-to-anti-establishment/

    We review Arundhati Roy’s book ‘Capitalism: a ghost story’: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/capitalism-a-ghost-story-by-arundhati-roy/

    Links to a chunk of our articles about the state of the working class in NZ are here: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/24/the-state-of-the-working-class-in-new-zealand-today/

    And don’t forget our symposium on the left and the way forward after the 2014 elections.
    Contribution 1, The Mana Movement and the left: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/election-2014-the-mana-movement-and-the-left/
    Contribution 2, What is to be done about the radical left in New Zealand: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/symposium-on-the-way-forward-2-what-is-to-be-done-about-the-radical-left-in-new-zealand/
    Contribution 3: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/28/symposium-on-the-way-forward-3-the-miseries-of-political-life/

    Lastly, on the ebola ‘crisis’: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/what-have-people-in-africa-been-doing-since-the-ebola-outbreak-started/

    When you read stuff on Redline, please do consider leaving comments.

    And if you know anyone who might like to get a weekly update on material on the blog, email me their email address.

    for the Redline Collective

  17. karol 18

    So apparently Paula Bennett has been giving the fingers to opposition MPs during question time this week. After Sue Moroney point of ordered it, the Speaker accepted Bennett’s word she hadn’t used any rude gestures.

    Moroney’s tweet about it:

    Paula Bennett just gave me the “fingers” during question time – not very exciting and sexy not to mention grown-up. Under pressure much!

    • Clemgeopin 18.1

      Another very disgusting, shocking and completely unbecoming gesture I have seen in Parliament is the Prime Minister, John Key doing a throat cutting gesture against Labour. What a disgrace!

      More here:

      The mask slips

      I know there was a video on the net. I tried to find it, but was unsuccessful.
      Please post it here if any of you have a link to that video. Thanks.

    • karol 18.2

      It’s hard to judge from the video.

      See for yourself:

      Bennett is using some sort of hand gestures after she starts to speak at 6.52 minutes into the video. There’s another at 7.08 minutes.

      At about 7.30 minutes Moroney raises the point of order.

      Then Bennett stands up and does what she says was the hand gesture she used and it wasn’t a rude one.

      • Murray Rawshark 18.2.1

        Much as I despise Paula Benefat, the fingers gesture was not visible in that video. It looks to me like it’s someone from Labour being a bit precious and misfiring again. When there is so much of substance to attack Key and his acolytes on, I am getting totally sick of seeing Labour choose insignificant rubbish and even get that wrong. We need Hone, Annette, John, and Laila in the house. The Greens can’t do it all by themselves.

  18. Penny Bright 19


    “Aucklanders could pay a motorway toll of about $2 under a congestion-busting plan being unveiled by Mayor Len Brown today.

    The mayor is set to announce details for tolling existing motorways at their on or off-ramps to plug a $12 billion-plus transport funding gap over the next 30 years.

    A motorway user charge of about $2 is believed to be one of two options prepared by an independent alternative transport funding group.

    The second option relies on higher rates.

    Both options are capable of raising about $300 million a year to fully deliver a $30 billion roading and public transport building programme over the next 30 years.

    Traditional funding sources, including fuel taxes, road user charges and rates, only stretch to $18 billion. ….”


    NO to road tolls!

    Why are the public subsidising what we no longer own?

    How many millions could be saved by cutting out the private sector transport consultants and contractors and returning passenger transport to public ownership, operation and control?

    It’s NOT ‘public transport’ in Auckland – it’s PRIVATELY owned passenger transport.

    Where’s the ‘cost-benefit’ analysis that PROVES the public subsidy to nine privately-owned bus companies is more ‘cost-effective’ than Auckland Transport owning one bus company?

    If there is no ‘cost-benefit’ analysis that PROVES public subsidy of private passenger transport is more cost-effective for the majority of citizens and ratepayers, than former ‘in-house’ provision, then how is this not yet another form of CORPORATE WELFARE?

    Why are we subsidising Transdev to operate and manage Auckland Rail?

    Why doesn’t Auckland Transport do it and potentially save citizens and ratepayers millions by cutting out the private ‘piggies in the middle’ transport consultant and contractors?

    Penny Bright


  19. Draco T Bastard 21

    No expense spared for the Key government:

    Prime Minister John Key’s new Government will soon have new ministerial limousines to replace the existing fleet of 34 BMWs.

    Wonder what excuses that they’ll use this time.

    • greywarshark 21.1

      DTB 6.22pm
      Whine from me. I thought we were hard up. A great little country managing to keep its head above water since the 2008 GFC etc. which gets trotted out ad infinitum.

    • RedBaronCV 21.2

      Cheaper than going back out to tender. Well I bet this isn’t cheaper than a bunch of 10 year old corollas that struggle to pass a warrant which is all that most of the country can afford. Arrogant and living on a different planet

  20. greywarshark 22

    For the keen political figure fancier – some from the Greens about their election result.

    Thank you! Because of you and thousands of people like you, the Greens ran election campaign on a scale we never have before.
    With the final votes all in and counted, the Green Party retained 14 MPs, continuing to be a strong and stable third party in Parliament. We added an extra 9,984 votes to our 2011 result.

    With such a bog to walk in I think they have done well.

  21. Why is it that when I click on the name/link of a few commenters I get http://deleted/ instead of their web page?

    [lprent: Because that is what they wrote or that we received in the website field. It could be also be an artifact of some web fence software that removes URLs from cookies you pass to the site (which is how the site ‘remembers’ your handle and details) ]

  22. Murray Rawshark 24

    The fuss being made on the Daily Bog about Hone hiring supposed sex offenders is really giving me the shits. It brings up a number of issues, and I’m not going to address the rights or wrongs of what Hone did. He can do that when he feels like it.
    1. It confirms for me once again the strain of reactionary racism that runs through pakeha liberals. They don’t like Hone at all because he challenges their comfortable lives, but they don’t know how to say that without appearing racist. Sex offences are the perfect opportunity, because everyone hates them, right? It also fits the prejudice of dangerous brown rapists, so it’s perfect for them.
    2. All notion of justice and rehabilitation fly out the window as soon as kid fuckers enter the picture. What are they supposed to do once they’ve done their time? What I see is a united front between pakeha liberals and the Nonsensical Sentencing Trust. Garth McVicar would be proud of them, especially that Winston First moron, Curwen Ares Winstonson.
    3. I get sick of the way a lot of people get all staunch about kidfuckers and rapists and love how they get bashed inside. Mostly that’s a load of shit, because while the small weak ones have very miserable lives, any big tattooed rapists and underage sex aficionados cop it sweet. There seems to be a size above which it’s impossible to be a rapist. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes.
    4. I don’t have much of a clue as to what to do with sex offenders, but I see that today’s decision to not charge the Roastbusters hints that the problem will be around for a while.

  23. Penny Bright 25

    FYI folks – particularly those who support the LAWFUL rights of citizens and ratepayers to ‘open, transparent and democratically-accountable’ local government?

    30 OCTOBER 2014:

    “Hi Penny,

    You have been approved to speak at the Governing Body meeting on 30 October 2014, on the following topic:

    · The law regarding the setting of rates, and statutory duties for ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ local government, regarding rates spending.

    You have been declined, under standing orders, to speak on the topic below as this matter is subject to a separate quasi-judicial process

    · My response to the offer by Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town, made in his letter to me dated 23 October 2014, offering me ‘rates postponement’.

    As you know, public input allows you to speak for a period of 5 minutes only and that you must remain on the topic that you have been approved to speak on.

    Also, as this Governing Body meeting is being held on the Orakei Marae (59b Kitemoana Street, Orakei), people attending this meeting need to be formally welcomed according to Marae protocols. This welcome commences at 0915 as advertised so please be there for the start. The meeting will formally commence at 1030.

    Thanks and if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

    Jason Marris | Governance Support Manager
    Democracy Services
    …………………….. ”

    Penny Bright

  24. SPC 26

    An 18 year old appears to have died from excess alcohol consumption.

    Misadventure based on a lack of awareness that this was possible, and in an environment where binge or excess drinking was encouraged rather than discouraged. A poverty of insight and appreciation of risk?

    So some say that if only we controlled society more this would not happen and so they advocate for a more controlled society.

    It is little different to an 18 year old involved in dangerous driving practice dying in an accident.

    Does anyone advocate the driving age going up to 20, or the price of petrol going up for the young and anyone else in society without much money – so why the age of alcohol purchase going up and minimum pricing for alcohol (which does not touch the favoured drinks of those on higher incomes – funny that)?

    And yes people have died from excess alcohol consumption in the past, when the legal purchase age was 20.

    What we are really witnessing is marginalisation. It happened to smokers – as numbers declined, the targeting of smokers intensified. By targeting those 18-20 and those who drink cheaper product (beer and the cheaper wine), they seek to obtain consent from the aging property owning middle class to control of the rest of the population. Note also the increasing drug testing of employees. The three are all directly connected to the beneficiary bashing meme. And why, because to divide the beneficiary poor from the low waged workers is the way to keep the workers low paid.

    The irony is that the beneficiary bashing meme is also used whenever the low paid workers seek higher pay. They are seen as ungrateful for having a job, as their pay is their market value. And of course they are told to live frugally to save a deposit for their home and aspire only to a modest starting home – still 2/3rd their income when it was 1/3rd only a generation ago.

    It’s simply all about putting the young and poor in their place and keeping them there.

    • SPC 26.1

      PS. The liberal “leftie” academics involved are listened to more by the nanny state in the Labour Party and Greens than they are by National, and it just goes to show how much of a divide there is between the working class and those who know best how to represent them in parliament. Thus the well to do establishment is more bi-partisan than we would care to admit. And this is why doing anything more than talking about poverty alleviation is so hard for any government.

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