Open Mike 29/10/2017

74 comments on “Open Mike 29/10/2017 ”

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1. Ovid 1

   29 October 2017 at 7:16 am

   This tickled my fancy with the news that Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation is starting to serve indictments

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Uy0Uznw4E
2. Geistle 2

   29 October 2017 at 7:23 am

   Over the last couple of months I have developed a new habit. Each morning, upon waking up, I check to see if the USA and North Korea have started a war yet.

   Is this rational behaviour? Well the Doomsday Clock was last reset in January and now registers at 3 minutes to midnight. It is now standing at 2 and a half minutes to midnight. This is the second closest setting to Armageddon that has ever been achieved. (It got down to 2 minutes after the USSR detonated its first nuclear bombs, but has as far away as 17 minutes to midnight. We are now about 8 times more likely to have a nuclear war than the halcyon days in the 1990’s.

   Risk is defined as probability times consequence. Maybe it is not closer to midnight due to the risk assessment will lower consequences (only millions dead, and not billions) but the probability is higher.

   I’m looking to kicking this habit by having the threat levels reduced.
   • Antoine 2.1

     29 October 2017 at 8:45 am

     I do this also, maybe not quite as punctually but still.

     > Maybe it is not closer to midnight due to the risk assessment will lower consequences (only millions dead, and not billions)

     This depends on what China and Russia do in the event of a war.

     A.
   • greywarshark 2.2

     29 October 2017 at 12:01 pm

     Hey are you Geistle or Gristle?
     • Gristle 2.2.1

       29 October 2017 at 4:29 pm

       Typo – Gristle
3. Robert Guyton 3

   29 October 2017 at 7:38 am

   An especially beautiful day in Riverton; birds calling, air still and already warm; I can feel the garden growing, plants pushing toward the sky, like rising dough in a warm room. My typing-fingers still tingling from its brush with stinging nettle yesterday but I chose, as National “chose” to embrace Opposition for the rest of their natural days, to grow the larger-leafed variety for the Red and Yellow Admirals, so don’t resent the occasional interaction. I’m betting nettle-sting has therapeutic qualities, but don’t know quite what they might be; anyone?
   • The decrypter 3.1

     29 October 2017 at 8:16 am

     Therapeutic qualities –hmmmm- ? I don’t know, but james might know.
     • James 3.1.1

       29 October 2017 at 8:46 am

       It’s obvious you are in love with me.

       Sadly for you – I think I can do better.
       • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1

         29 October 2017 at 8:53 am

         “It’s obvious you are in love with me”
         Do you believe that everyone who uses your name, is in love with you, James?
         (Doh! – should’a said, Jimmy or Jimbo !!)
         • james 3.1.1.1.1

           29 October 2017 at 5:53 pm

           Nope – only people that follow me around wondering what Im feeling or thinking.

           Its obsessive I tell you. Funny really – because I couldnt give people like that a second thought.
           • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1.1

             29 October 2017 at 11:22 pm

             James, people wonder if you are feeling or thinking, not what .
             Your constant yearning for love though, is noted.
             People! Let’s give James the love he seeks # lovejamesdespitehisfoibles
   • Sans Cle 3.2

     29 October 2017 at 8:26 am

     Getting stung by nettles sets you off on an immediate treasure hunt for a dock leaf to rub on the sting.
   • Tony Veitch (not etc) 3.3

     29 October 2017 at 8:47 am

     Perhaps aversion therapy, Robert – once touched, avoided in future?

     I suspect there’s a certain amount of symbolism here!
   • weka 3.4

     29 October 2017 at 9:18 am

     Which nettle is it Robert? So the Admirals prefer it over the others?

     Nettle sting is a traditional arthritis remedy.
     • Robert Guyton 3.4.1

       29 October 2017 at 5:12 pm

       The perennial nettle (Urtica dioica) – I don’t know if they favour it particularly, but the more commonly found nettle won’t grow in my dappled-shade woodland, preferring exposed, dry, nitrogen-rich sheepy places. I reckon nettles cure by alerting the body to sites of trouble, in the way the frozen nitrogen treatment lets the body know that the wart virus has set up shop, disguising itself as you.
       I’d grow ongaonga, (Urtica ferox) but am finding it hard to locate – anything that hurts us, we destroy (unless it has a pleasurable aspect).
       • Stuart Munro 3.4.1.1

         30 October 2017 at 1:08 am

         Lots of ferox in the Motueka gorge – might like warmer climes.
   • mac1 3.5

     29 October 2017 at 9:24 am

     Have you been ‘grasping the nettle”, Robert Guyton? Acting boldly, dealing with a problem determinedly. As Tony Veitch says below, there is symbolism here.

     “”Tender-handed stroke a nettle, And it stings you, for your pains: Grasp it like a man of mettle, And it soft as silk remains.”

     Googling this symbolism on a Sunday morning, I found a http://www.graspingthenettle.org
     which explores the divide between agnostic and believer, the Science/God debate.

     It started in Scotland and its first meeting took place in the Glasgow Thistle hotel!

     As well, I hope there are men and women ‘of mettle’ within our new Cabinet and government, for the nettles are assuredly there to be dealt with determinedly.
     • Robert Guyton 3.5.1

       29 October 2017 at 5:16 pm

       I certainly have, mac1 – taking the chairman of ES to task yesterday for right-wing comments made in his editorial in yesterday’s The Southland Times, submitting on the up-coming Southland Regional Development Strategy ( it’s a neo-libs dream and I oppose almost every aspect of it), and so on. As a biodynamic-lite gardener, grasping the nettle is a regular occurence.
   • swordfish 3.6

     29 October 2017 at 3:23 pm

     Riverton = Blue like a New Tattoo

     …… 2014 …….. 2017
     Lab …. 17% …… 22%
     Green ..7% …….. 2%
     (L+G … 24% …… 25%)

     NZF …… 11% …. 11%

     Nat …….. 59% …. 60%
     (Right …. 62% …. 60%)
     • Ad 3.6.1

       29 October 2017 at 3:58 pm

       Stinging nettle benefit: hallucinogenic.
     • Robert Guyton 3.6.2

       29 October 2017 at 5:06 pm

       Blue-rinse brigade. A streak of deep green here as well, few in number, loud of voice. Bill’s billboards took a terrible hammering.
       • mac1 3.6.2.1

         29 October 2017 at 10:18 pm

         John Key assisting with billboard erection, was he, to effect the terrible hammering?
         • Robert Guyton 3.6.2.1.1

           29 October 2017 at 11:17 pm

           You’ve nailed it, mac1!
4. Ed 4

   29 October 2017 at 7:45 am

   Happy Days

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M
5. Muttonbird 5

   29 October 2017 at 7:56 am

   Cold and grey in Auckland but warming me up is the now fever pitched whining beginning to emanate from the Soper household.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936052

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11937350
   • Ed 5.1

     29 October 2017 at 8:05 am

     Sore losers…..
     • Muttonbird 5.1.1

       29 October 2017 at 8:12 am

       Imagine picking a fight with Linda Clark. Access gone!

       Same goes for the other National party embedded hacks, Trevett, Watkins, and Young. Their writing since the decision has been Nat-centred as if they are only people left for them to talk to.

       Thats what years of bashing the opposition on ideological grounds does – leaves you with no contacts or friends when they are in government.
       • Ed 5.1.1.1

         29 October 2017 at 8:21 am

         The article by Soper is really quite pitiful and very solipsistic.
         • JanM 5.1.1.1.1

           29 October 2017 at 11:00 am

           He really is an awful little man – I had the doubtful pleasure of being at a dinner party he was invited to some years back – loud, opinionated, rude, sexist – eeek! – just as well the food was so good!
6. Eco maori 6

   29 October 2017 at 8:30 am

   I say our coalition government get housing Corp to design a flat pack house like that one on TV 2 weeks ago were the panels are all insulated and the only finishing they need once they are up is a coat of paint E.C.T design these houses so they are stable in a earth quake may be design to be trucked out if they have a natural disaster like that gently man designed down south it’s logical all areas that are prone to natural disasters should be legislated to have a design to move them as this will help mitergate the cost after the disaster they could be be design so the kitchen and Barth room can be fliped so they have a bit of different s factory,S setup to make them . And design a house for our Pacific islands cousins that can with stand climate change and test it in a wind tunnel Kami pai
   • Eco maori 6.1

     29 October 2017 at 5:35 pm

     Just a thought rather that pay 1 or 2 designer,S I would run a competition and have guide lines to follow and have $100.000 first prize and give prizes to the top ten two category,S both flat pack house,S but one for hurricane resistance and one for here that way we get a lot of intelligent designer all over new zealand we get people power and a lot of new Zealanders are real ingenious and this will be cost effective and I’m sure we will get a some good design from this . It’s all in the design mother nature has been perfecting her design,S for billions of years Ka pai
7. Carolyn_Nth 7

   29 October 2017 at 8:53 am

   According to Mediawatch on RNZ yesterday, the Labour-NZ+GP government’s media policy is likely to be more like that of Labour than the policies of the other 2 parties. But, just because Curran is strongly favouring Labour policies on public service media, doesn’t mean it is a done deal.

   It looks like NZF’s desire for political coverage quotas and sport of national significance on free-to-air TV are on a back-burner by Curran.

   And Clare Curran is pushing Labour’s policy for an RNZ+ with freeview TV channel, rather than the policies of the other 2 parties which look more to keep TV with TVNZ but in a changed way.

   Labour want a new public service media funding agency, operating well out of the control of government, and not subject to funding decisions each budget time.

   Commercial broadcasters, of course, don’t like it a bit and want to continue with a lot of government money being available to them.

   Hopefully Labour has learned from it’s weak charter when last in government, and its tentative TVNZ7 etc. They do seem to be looking to create a public service media this time round that will be hard for a Nat-led government to dismantle. That is very important.

   I think a strong public service media is essential for public education on politics, and for countering dirty politics, political spin, and deliberate misinformation and lies – the latter was used by the Nats in the 2017 election campaign and probably gained them enough extra votes to stop them showing a strong decline in the election results.

   But, the exact form for public service, state funded media, needs some debate in order to weigh up the proposals from the 3 parties (Lab, NZF, GP).
   • garibaldi 7.1

     29 October 2017 at 12:28 pm

     Yes, Wallace’s interview with Clare Curren was a reasonable start but falls well short of a proper cleanout of political patsies currently embedded, from the board down on RNZ. As for TV, why does the public purse carry on funding an idiot like Hosking for as much as another second?
     As an aside Curren needs media training to avoid saying “um” so much. It was nearly as bad as using “like”!
     • Philg 7.1.1

       29 October 2017 at 2:54 pm

       Independent quality Broadcasting and Media are foundstions for a healthy Democracy. Clare has to get this right and learn from previous mistakes. She appears to be tip toeing. A clean out from the top is required. Or the Chiefs have to learn a new sentimental song, and fast.
   • Matthew Whitehead 7.2

     29 October 2017 at 3:23 pm

     I’m honestly pretty supportive of the idea of RNZ+, if it is properly funded, given that RNZ has been dealing with an unreasonable budget freeze, and has done a pretty good job of low-budget video content with Checkpoint. That said, I hope it would be in addition to some of the better parts of both NZF and the Greens’ media ideas, such as wider funding for freeview sport, and contestable funding for public-interest journalism, which has the simultaneous effect of letting RNZ stand up a bit more to the NZ MSM, and also allowing other great media ideas to compete a little in RNZ’s space, too, as it does have its own biases.

     My main concern is that I honestly am not sure it will be properly funded, (honestly, one way to address that would simply to be to take some of the public funding out of TVNZ in areas where it’s not being well-utilized in the public interest) with a side-concern of believing that Clare Curran is absolutely the wrong person to be leading the charge on this, and that basically anyone else in the new government would do a better job, but then again I don’t have confidence in her to do anything that doesn’t directly benefit herself, so maybe I’m biased.
     • Carolyn_nth 7.2.1

       29 October 2017 at 3:38 pm

       Yes, I have concerns about it being led by Curran as well. She is not great on digital media. And she hasn’t been given any helpful associate ministers.

       I’ve been to a couple of panels and symposiums on the media, for which spokes people from various parties were invited. I have been quite impressed with Tracey Martin in this area. She does get the significance of public service media, and probably had quite a bit of influence on NZF’s policy.

       Gareth Hughes attended some of those events, and is very good on ICT and digital media.

       That Curran has been given sole responsibility for this area, makes it seem like it’s not a high priority for Labour.

       But, I think it is.
       • Philg 7.2.1.1

         29 October 2017 at 3:56 pm

         I hope that Clare Curran proves us wrong. But I have not been impressed with her grasp of the Public Broadcasting issue. Somehow reminds me of Maggie Barry being allocated Minister of DOC.😉
       • Matthew Whitehead 7.2.1.2

         29 October 2017 at 6:22 pm

         Yeah, I would actually have loved to see Curran’s responsibilities split up and given to Martin and Hughes tbqh, and that’s with my concerns about Martin wanting to take state regulation of the media a little too far. Curran’s a lightweight and it’s astounding she’s even made it into cabinet, it raises some serious questions about the organizational politics within Labour that she got voted in. (my understanding is that caucus votes on who goes into cabinet/becomes a minister/etc… before the portfolios are assigned by the leadership team?)

         I’m honestly struggling to think of a charitable explanation of her presence in cabinet when she’s at best backbencher material, if not ripe for deselection, but I think I’ll hold my tongue and assume there’s some good reason she’s there.

         I won’t go as far as PhilG in hoping she proves us wrong because I think I’ve been pleasantly surprised once, and that was that time she went on a hunger strike. Most of the things she’s good at seem to basically boil down to “being an electorate MP.”
8. OnceWasTim 8

   29 October 2017 at 9:06 am

   As I listened to Canadian ‘progressive economist’ Armine Yalnizyan on RNZ Sunday this morning, I was imagining most of the National Party and other neo-libs dreaming up excuses and chanting “but but but but…..”.
   Podcast link not yet up)
   • greywarshark 8.1

     29 October 2017 at 12:09 pm

     Heard that. If the whole thing is listened to good thoughts and points emerge.
     8:35 Economist Armine Yalnizyan: “expose, oppose, propose”

     economy inequality
     8:35 am today
     Economist Armine Yalnizyan: “expose, oppose, propose”
     From Sunday Morning, 8:35 am today

     Listen duration 22′ :49″
     http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018619620/economist-armine-yalnizyan-expose-oppose-propose

     Armine Yalnizyan is a progressive economist from Canada interested in concrete solutions for working people. Her “holy trinity” approach to her work is “expose, oppose, propose”. Yalnizyan presents an alternative analysis of economic issues from a people-centric perspective and is in New Zealand to talk about income inequality and how we can change it. She says governments alone can’t fix it.

     and while we are thinking about NZ the islands and all that sail in her, we should stretch our thoughts to Manus Island.

     refugees and migrants
     7:20 am today
     After Manus Island, what next for asylum seekers?
     From Sunday Morning, 7:20 am today
     Listen duration 13′ :36″
     http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018619616/after-manus-island-what-next-for-asylum-seekers

     A refugee advocate is calling for New Zealand to step up ahead of the closure of the Manus Island immigration detention centre in Papua Guinea next week. Tracey Barnett is highlighting the problem in a speech on October 29 at an exhibition in Wellington at the New Zealand Portrait Gallery.

     It’s called Transplanted and is made up of refugee portraits. Tracey is also the curator of the exhibition but her focus is on how the newly appointed government can step up to help the Manus Island asylum seekers and refugees as the centre is being closed by the Australian government on 31 October.
     • OnceWasTim 8.1.1

       29 October 2017 at 3:14 pm

       Agree! the whole thing needs to be listened to. Not sure about her UBI stance but I’m no expert. It may become an inevitability.
       I also share your concern about refugees and immigrants/migrants. It concerns me (at least over the past 9 years) of the hypocrisy on NZ’s migrant/immigrant/immigration policy.
       – The labelling – which is almost akin to a Peter Dutton/ Scott Morrison/Tarn Yabbit/Ja Vol Herr Commandant Corman/Steven Choice/MBIE CEO wet dream whereby we talk about ‘economic immigrants’ who are lesser beings than the refugee. All the while when Kiwis crossing the Tasman for better prospects, then returning home when things go tits up.
       – The policies under the past junta which enabled government administrative structures that enabled and encouraged exploitation of workers, international students and supposedly ‘respectable’ ticket clippers (that MBIE possibly/probably the worst offender/contributor)

       Incidentally, It’s also when I realised the rumours about Marama Fox having a nasty streak to her could ekshully be true: She wasn’t just “Derek’s little girl” (bear in mind Derek’s Maori TV record – Joanna Paul et al), but here was a politician proposing the 21st Century eqivalent of a 19th Century indentured labour scheme whilst st the same time harping on about the effects of colonisation.
       (Play it again Sam! Ekshully, maybe that should be “Play it again Sambo”)
9. marty mars 9

   29 October 2017 at 10:20 am

   Good article – manage people not the land.

   https://www.wildernessmag.co.nz/revolutionary-plan-te-urewera/
10. greywarshark 10

    29 October 2017 at 12:20 pm

    As I celebrated a while ago that there was often really good discussion going on in TS in a particular thread with informed and thoughtful stuff being presented, I am going to signpost it if I see one that is great to observe or participate in and just to follow the flow of intelligent thought.

    So suggest anyone who values the opportunity to get close to i.t. (lowercase as above), have a look at the Catalonia post. What they are going through in Spain with this fairly autonomous region is relevant to us and the world in numerous ways. Watch and learn I think. (Another that could be parallel is the large group of Kurdish people affected by a number of borders but notably in Turkey.)
11. JanM 11

    29 October 2017 at 1:37 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/97906160/auckland-kindergarten-association-reviewing-its-decisions-after-changes-met-with-backlash

    Yea – I hope the uproar is big enough to stop this devious lot of right- wingers in their tracks. They’ve been planning this move behind everyone’s backs for a long time now!
    • Ed1 11.1

      29 October 2017 at 6:28 pm

      I have heard that at least one kindergarten is losing all of its staff as at the end of this year – it appers that trained ECE staff do have some options . . .
12. Ad 12

    29 October 2017 at 2:11 pm

    The government is interested in a new city of up to 500,000 people being built south of Auckland:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11937945

    It’s on a tiny village called Paerata, but the driver of this is the massive land holdings that Wesley College has right next door.

    That’s a city three times the size of Hamilton.

    The Minister is clearly keen and it will continue in the media for a while. Auckland Council’s Mayor Goff can digest this when he meets with Minister Twyford next week.

    Now, granted, property owners who have sat on this holdings for nearly a century are probably going to get rich. But the Minister might want to ask the question:

    Who benefits?

    His team need to do some research behind the names. Might want to start with one ex-Minister Bill Birch and work from there.
    • Graeme 12.1

      29 October 2017 at 2:37 pm

      You could do the same scratch and sniff test on any piece of currently rural land on Auckland’s periphery and there’s fair chance you won’t come up with roses. If someone’s got the necessary a piece of rural land close to auckland would be a good investment. It’s been going out for the last 60 years and shows no sign of stopping in the foreseeable.
      • thevoiceofreason 12.1.1

        29 October 2017 at 2:50 pm

        Well rather than decry those that have tried to make a buck out of the sprawl, how about doing what any world class city does and intensify (after sorting out transport infrastructure of course). That’s the easy way to put an end to the urban boundary speculation and land-banking.

        I thoroughly applaud all of Labour’s Auckland policies but the one that stands out as incongruous is removing the metropolitan boundary. Just doesn’t mesh with the other well conceived of policy.

        In other news, I was impressed with Grant Robertson on Q&A this morning. Positive, has a plan and knows what he wants to do. Kudos
        • Ad 12.1.1.1

          29 October 2017 at 4:05 pm

          We’ve been waiting since 2007 for Auckland Council to do that, but the runs on the board from Panuku cannot yet be seen.

          We’ve also been waiting for Tamaki Redevelopment Co to shine, but so far it’s miserably slow.
        • marty mars 12.1.1.2

          29 October 2017 at 4:24 pm

          Are you back or are you another one? If back, I am pleased.
          • thevoiceofreason 12.1.1.2.1

            29 October 2017 at 5:08 pm

            Never left, curiosity keeps me checking in. 🙂

            Maybe I misheard but Grant Robertson seemed to hint this morning they’d be looking at stamp duty on foreign buyers rather than an outright ban… Perhaps as a plan B in case renegotiation of TPPA isn’t possible?
            • marty mars 12.1.1.2.1.1

              29 October 2017 at 5:22 pm

              I think it is wise that they have a plan b although not sure that one is the one especially with the mood around foreign buyers.

              Edit – it’s like the band is getting back together – oasis or something ☺
            • marty mars 12.1.1.2.1.2

              30 October 2017 at 3:16 pm

              There was an author with the same name – that is not you. I suggest you change it because that poster was a long time contributer and more than one person has thought you were them. I’m not trying to be mean, it’s just confusing. ☺
      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.2

        29 October 2017 at 5:38 pm

        It’s been going out for the last 60 years and shows no sign of stopping in the foreseeable.

        Especially now that the government seems to want to get rid of the urban limit.

        Perhaps we should just move everyone into Auckland.
        • Graeme 12.1.2.1

          29 October 2017 at 7:07 pm

          “Perhaps we should just move everyone into Auckland.”

          Well hasn’t that been economic development in New Zealand for the last 60 years, move everything and everyone to Auckland…
    • Muttonbird 12.2

      29 October 2017 at 3:09 pm

      Compulsory acquisition should do it.
      • Ad 12.2.1

        29 October 2017 at 4:03 pm

        It would, but the Minister doesn’t have his machine running yet.
        He had better damn wall hurry up with it – there’s Bonanza speculative money to be made clearly.

        I smell another job for Crown Infrastructure Partners, once they’ve finished with the Stevenson quarry down there making dump trucks of money for the Stevenson family as a development.
    • DoublePlusGood 12.3

      30 October 2017 at 11:52 am

      We need to control population growth, not encourage Auckland to get so enormous that a satellite city at Paerata eats all the surrounding land and reaches 500,000 people on some of the best farmland in the country.
13. Graeme 13

    29 October 2017 at 2:44 pm

    Hmmmm….
    Pacific Aerospace’s dealings in China seem to go from naive to embarrassing. First one of their products turns up at an airshow in North Korea https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/96724372/pacific-aerospace-guilty-of-unlawful-exports-to-north-korea , and now they are military drones to supply outposts in South China Sea

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2117438/drone-could-deliver-cargo-islets-south-china-sea-makes
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      29 October 2017 at 5:57 pm

      Quoting first link:

      Under New Zealand law, a company which breaches a UN-mandated ban can be fined up to $100,000.

      A company can be fined up to $5000 for making an erroneous declaration under the Customs and Excise Act.

      Those need to be increased by at least ten times.

      As for the second, once China had a copy of one or two it would have rapidly reversed engineered it. China is doing what every advanced nation has done at some point – developing their economy. And they’re doing it simply by copying what others have done.
    • Exkiwiforces 13.2

      29 October 2017 at 8:39 pm

      Also remember the Chinese also brought Airworks NZabout 18mths after they had listed on the NZX. Airworks NZ had been around since the 1920-1930’s.
14. Philg 14

    29 October 2017 at 2:57 pm

    Let’s not forget, almost all the money is not funding/supporting the new government, yet. But wait and see what money will buy.
15. Draco T Bastard 15

    29 October 2017 at 6:00 pm

    Poll shows 85% of MPs don’t know where money comes from

    Only 15% of MPs were aware that new money is created when banks make loans, and existing money is destroyed when members of the public repay loans. 62% thought this was false, while 23% responded ‘don’t know’. Tory MPs seemed to have a slightly better idea, with 19% answering correctly, compared to only 5% of Labour MPs.

    As explained in the ‘Money creation in the modern economy’ report published by the Bank of England in 2014, most money takes the form of bank deposits, which are mostly created through commercial banks making loans: “Whenever a bank makes a loan, it simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money.” The most recent figures suggest that 97% of money exists as bank deposits, with only 3% created by the Bank of England and Royal Mint as cash.

    That’s in the UK but I’m reasonably certain that the same would apply here for our politicians.

    How money is created is something that needs to be well distributed so as to start a groundswell for change against the present corrupt system.
    • Ed 15.1

      29 October 2017 at 6:54 pm

      Maybe they should watch this film

      Money as Debt

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AC6RSau7r8
      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        29 October 2017 at 6:59 pm

        Just reading the research that the RBNZ has done that shows how private banks create would work. After all, that’s what government department research is for – informing the government.
16. joe90 16

    29 October 2017 at 6:02 pm

    heh

    Thought in light of todays news this would be very fitting. This is amazing. #MuellerTime #Comeyday pic.twitter.com/67x9M76bUG— AgentHades (@AgentHades) October 28, 2017

    https://twitter.com/AgentHades/status/924112609409875969
17. Union city greens 17

    29 October 2017 at 6:43 pm

    If the government wants to get rid of incandescent light bulbs, as they should, can they be a love and do it when it’s not an election year this time?
    • Andre 17.1

      29 October 2017 at 6:54 pm

      I’m not sure I agree with completely banning incandescents.

      But I would certainly support requiring all incandescent bulb packaging to have most of the area taken up with a big warning that says “this bulb will waste $X of electricity every year compared to the equivalent LED bulb that will also last at least 10 times longer”.

      I would also support requiring LED bulbs in rentals.
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 17.2

      29 October 2017 at 9:10 pm

      Incandescent bulbs have certain applications, for example they are useful for some minor heating applications, loads on renewable systems or for testing in certain rare cases.

      So I think they should remain available – perhaps just tax them so they cost the same as the energy efficient ones. Sales of them would plummet.
18. UncookedSelachimorpha 18

    29 October 2017 at 8:05 pm

    I see RNZ reports

    “Joyce tells govt to front up on policy costings”

    Tell him they’ll cost about $11.7b

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/342618/joyce-tells-govt-to-front-up-on-policy-costings
    • Incognito 18.1

      29 October 2017 at 8:29 pm

      Prebble wrote “I’ve Been Thinking” and Joyce’s memoirs (cannot come soon enough) will carry the inspiring title “I’ve Been Counting”. Alternatively, John Roughan could write a biography “Steven Joyce: Portrait of a Dyscalculic Minister”.
      • UncookedSelachimorpha 18.1.1

        29 October 2017 at 9:12 pm

        Or was it “I be thunkin?”
        • Incognito 18.1.1.1

          29 October 2017 at 9:26 pm

          Yeah, while he’s smoking his own dope he’s doing a lot of that 😉
19. joe90 19

    29 October 2017 at 10:21 pm

    Giving voice to indigenous folk isn’t on, because white Australia.

    Indigenous affairs minister Nigel Scullion has defended the dismissal of the key proposal of the Uluru statement, saying the government was “surprised” by the Referendum Council’s report and suggested non-Indigenous people should have been consulted.

    On Thursday the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, confirmed the government had rejected the proposal in a joint statement with Scullion and attorney general George Brandis after cabinet discussions describing it as “too radical” were leaked to the media.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/27/nigel-scullion-says-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-would-not-fly-with-voters

    The statement rejected by the Australian government.

    Uluru Statement from the Heart

    We, gathered at the 2017 National Constitutional Convention, coming from all points of the southern sky, make this statement from the heart:

    Our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander tribes were the first sovereign Nations of the Australian continent and its adjacent islands, and possessed it under our own laws and customs. This our ancestors did, according to the reckoning of our culture, from the Creation, according to the common law from “time immemorial”, and according to science more than 60,000 years ago.

    This sovereignty is a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or “mother nature”, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty. It has never been ceded or extinguished, and co-exists with the sovereignty of the Crown.

    How could it be otherwise? That peoples possessed a land for 60 millennia and this sacred link disappears from world history in merely the last 200 years?

    With substantive constitutional change and structural reform, we believe this ancient sovereignty can shine through as a fuller expression of Australia’s nationhood.

    Proportionally, we are the most incarcerated people on the planet. We are not an innately criminal people. Our children are aliened from their families at unprecedented rates. This cannot be because we have no love for them. And our youth languish in detention in obscene numbers. They should be our hope for the future.

    These dimensions of our crisis tell plainly the structural nature of our problem. This is the torment of our powerlessness.

    We seek constitutional reforms to empower our people and take a rightful place in our own country. When we have power over our destiny our children will flourish. They will walk in two worlds and their culture will be a gift to their country.

    We call for the establishment of a First Nations Voice enshrined in the constitution.

    Makarrata is the culmination of our agenda: the coming together after a struggle. It captures our aspirations for a fair and truthful relationship with the people of Australia and a better future for our children based on justice and self-determination.

    We seek a Makarrata Commission to supervise a process of agreement-making between governments and First Nations and truth-telling about our history.

    In 1967 we were counted, in 2017 we seek to be heard. We leave base camp and start our trek across this vast country. We invite you to walk with us in a movement of the Australian people for a better future

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/10/27/uluru-statement-from-the-heart/

    Reactions.

    https://nacchocommunique.com/2017/10/27/naccho-aboriginal-health-and-the-referendum-ulurustatement-pm-rejects-indigenousvoice-to-parliament/

    https://imatthewsblog.com/2017/10/27/government-rejects-voice-to-parliament/

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