Open Mike 30/05/2018

135 comments on “Open Mike 30/05/2018 ”

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1. Ed 1

   30 May 2018 at 7:09 am

   The Herald front page screams ‘Russian serial killer.’

   Any excuse to recreate the fear and hatred of the Cold War.
   Shameful.

   Just another reminder that a real people’s government should seize control of the narrative from the plutocrats.
   This tinkering crew will do too little for fear of offending the capitalists.
   And no, I did not buy it and did not click on it.
   Saw the headline on a paper lyiing ona table in a cafe.
   • Bill 1.1

     30 May 2018 at 11:53 am

     Ed? pfft.

     Russian authorities hunting a serial killer asked New Zealand police to search their DNA database in a bid to catch the dangerous and wanted murderer.

     Y’know, yes, there’s a whole lot of simplistic “black and white”, and “with us or agin us” bullshit going on in the world today.

     But jumping up on a chair and getting all arm wavy on the flimsiest of contexts or (in this case) a completely bogus context is just …why fcking do that?
2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

   30 May 2018 at 7:21 am

   Didn’t read the story. Has no idea what the story says. Indulges monomania anyway 🙄
   • Hanswurst 2.1

     30 May 2018 at 8:15 am

     He’s still got a point, though.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 8:19 am

       Has he? I think he writes a load of steaming drivel on almost any subject you care to name.
       • Hanswurst 2.1.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 8:41 am

         Granted. He’s still got a point here, though.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 8:52 am

           That the NZH wants to recreate the fear and hatred of the Cold War? Nope, I think that’s just more addled gobshite. That the NZLP won’t do the things he wants? Maybe so, but since the things he wants are motivated by addled gobshite, that’s hardly surprising.
         • Ed 2.1.1.1.2

           30 May 2018 at 4:44 pm

           If you think my views on inequality, taxes, obesity, housing, transport, health and education are ‘gobshite’, or ‘steaming drivel’, then you clearly are not left wing.
           When a Blairite insults me, I wear it as a badge of honour.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.2.1

             30 May 2018 at 5:14 pm

             However, when someone who isn’t a Blairite calls out your drivel, you attack the messenger because you can’t handle the criticism.

             “Real left wing thinking” ≠ regurgitating kleptocrat propaganda whilst seeing conspiracies everywhere.

             Plus what Bill said.
             • Ed …

               30 May 2018 at 5:23 pm

               Many on this site are sick of your bully boy tactics.
               Just because you don’t agree with my views does not give you the right in verbal abuse.

               My views are left of the NZ Labour Party.

               Conspiracies everywhere?
               No.

               Do they exist?
               Yes

               Skripal
               Yes – a conspiracy.

               Syrian chemical attack
               Yes – a conspiracy

               The plan to attack Iraq in 2003.
               Yes – a conspiracy.

               The plan to attack the U.S in 2001
               Yes – a conspiracy.
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 30 May 2018 at 5:48 pm

                 😆

                 Calls me a Blairite, bleats about verbal abuse.
           • mauī 2.1.1.1.2.2

             30 May 2018 at 6:48 pm

             Nice riposte Ed, you are part of the true left imo. Thanks for trying to mend the bridge with armed offenders bloke.
       • Bewildered 2.1.1.2

         30 May 2018 at 10:19 am

         Probably most relevant Russian story today is not Ed’s little piece but that another anti Putin journalist and former Russian parliamentary candidate Oles Bunyan has been murdered in Kiev Probably nothing to do with russua though, suggest it was the British ( sarc)
       • greywarshark 2.1.1.3

         30 May 2018 at 11:17 am

         OAB
         Don’t be so quick to diss Ed. A bowl of steaming drivel might be all a poor person has on a winter morning to keep them going!
       • Ed 2.1.1.4

         30 May 2018 at 4:39 pm

         I would argue most real left wing thinking is closely aligned to what I say on this site.
         • McFlock 2.1.1.4.1

           30 May 2018 at 4:47 pm

           Like a “True Scotsman”, I suspect the definition of “real left wing thinking” is in the eye of the proclaimer.
   • mauī 2.2

     30 May 2018 at 9:19 am

     scroll past.
3. cleangreen 3

   30 May 2018 at 7:40 am

   While the meth cirus reigns on TV today; – look what the Government is pushing forward at the same time as they threw the ‘distraction’ of meth at us!!!!

   Did they think we would not see them shifting to ‘a thumbs up to CPTPP???????

   We are being played big time now folks sadly.

   Our verbal submission was 10 minutes last week and we are bitterly disapointed they did not even add any protectins we advocated for.

   When will Labour/National /NZF appologise to NZ, after the new cases of other disease comes here after their final rush to pass the final report to Parliament simnce the phoney “select Committee to review the TPTPP” was hoisted on us all as a “diversion” while their intent was to pass this toxic trade agreement as it already was???

   Chair Simon O’Connor (National MP) said he believed the CPTPP is o/k; – as is????

   Even though us and a lot of other submitters warned him and his committee that they will be setting us up for more “micro-plasma bovis” events.

   The submitters said they should include a clause be added to the ISDS agreement to allow in all cases Government contracts or with other parties allowing local/state governments and other parties to encourage Government to pass regulations to protect NZ citizens and the environment against foreign activities in NZ that may damage their future economic, environmental, health, and well-being after the trade agreement will be enacted in 2019.

   ‘Editored’ section involving environmental protection and no change from draft report originally proposed in march 2018.

   https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/SCR_78363/a1acbf19b29fdfcfb0f773ee52bffd2dfd522be3

   (Chair Simon O’Connor said he believed the CPTPP is o/k; – as is????)

   COMPREHENSIVE AND PROGRESSIVE AGREEMENT FOR TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP (CPTPP)

   Page; 5

   Summary of issues discussed with submitters
   Many submitters, notably those opposed to the CPTPP, believe that the changes from the
   TPP do not substantively address their concerns. They consider that the CPTPP is
   effectively the same as the TPP.

   Investor-State dispute settlement and sovereignty
   We discussed some submitters’ concerns about the effect the CPTPP would have on the
   sovereign rights of New Zealanders to determine their own future through an elected
   Parliament. In particular, these submitters consider that the ISDS provisions unnecessarily
   empower and protect international investors.
   Some submitters believe that the threat of substantial awards against governments is a
   strong disincentive for the New Zealand Government to act in the interests of New
   Zealanders when those interests conflict with those of CPTPP investors. Submitters consider
   that this could have a chilling effect on the Government’s ability to make policy and regulate
   in areas including labour law and the mitigation of climate change.
   We also discussed the CPTPP’s relationship with New Zealand’s many international
   obligations, including the Paris Agreement to address climate change, and the United
   Nations’ Sustainable Development Goals. We understand that this is problematic because
   many of these obligations are not enforceable, but the CPTPP contains enforcement
   mechanisms.
   Two dispute settlement mechanisms in CPTPP
   We understand that the CPTPP provides for two dispute settlement mechanisms: a
   government-to-government system to resolve disputes in the agreement, and ISDS. The
   ISDS mechanism provides for the settlement of disputes between foreign investors and the
   Government of the country in which the investment is made.
   Application of ISDS in CPTPP
   In the CPTPP, ISDS only applies to the Investment chapter and limited investment-related
   elements of the Financial Services chapter. The scope of the ISDS mechanism is narrower
   that it was in the TPP. Claims are no longer permitted in relation to investment contracts and
   COMPREHENSIVE AND PROGRESSIVE AGREEMENT FOR TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP (CPTPP)
   6
   approval. This means that private companies which enter into an investment contract with
   the Government would not be able to use ISDS if there were a dispute about that contract.
   Decisions made under the Overseas Investment Act 2005 are also not subject to ISDS.
   Suspensions around the minimum standard of treatment concerning financial services
   further reduce the risk of successful claims under the CPTPP being taken against New
   Zealand. The minimum standard of treatment is an obligation that forms part of the body of
   customary international law, to accord fair and equitable treatment to covered investments,
   and not to deny justice.
   • wayne 3.1

     30 May 2018 at 8:37 am

     Once a treaty is entered into, it cannot be changed by any one state. So any submission to the New Zealand Parliament asking for that will necessarily fail.

     It is basically an up and down vote. And there is zero chance (given the make up of the committee) that the select committee would recommend a down vote.

     But I presume you knew all of this already, and your submission was merely another way of showing your opposition, rather than an expectation it would have actual effect.

     However, presumably the Greens will put in a minority report covering your points.
     • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 9:09 am

       “Once a treaty is entered into, it cannot be changed by any one state. So any submission to the New Zealand Parliament asking for that will necessarily fail.”

       What wayne means is BOKYAG.
       • dukeofurl 3.1.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 9:48 am

         Cant be changed ?

         tell that to Trump as hes doing just that with NAFTA
         • veutoviper 3.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 10:48 am

           Different situation as the US, Canada and Mexico are in the middle of formal negotiations called to renegotiate NAFTA; whereas the CP TPP is now post the end of formal negotiations and sign off by all parties (countries) to the agreement and in the ratification stage where individual states are processing the agreement through their national legislative requirements for ratification.
         • Daveosaurus 3.1.1.1.2

           30 May 2018 at 7:51 pm

           Trump is an example no sane politician would wish to follow.
4. The Chairman 4

   30 May 2018 at 7:48 am

   With the Chief Science Advisor to the Government, Peter Gluckman, stating he wouldn’t be worried about “toddlers crawling around on the floor” until the meth residue reached the level of several hundred micrograms per 100cm2, why is the new testing standard level (at 15mcg per 100cm2) recommended so low?
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104287037/the-meth-house-is-a-myth-theres-no-risk-from-drug-smoking-residue-govt-report-finds

   In fact, the country’s top scientists are recommending people not test their homes unless the police specifically indicate it was a meth lab.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/358454/meth-house-contamination-debunked-by-pm-s-science-advisor

   Therefore, are we about to make the same costly mistake all over again?

   As for the initial mistake (the low level adopted) should and will there be compensation for homeowners and others affected? Moreover, will heads roll?
   • Robert Guyton 4.1

     30 May 2018 at 8:07 am

     The head’s of Key, English et al, rolling…
     • The Chairman 4.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 8:14 am

       “I lose count of the number of times that I questioned [Housing New Zealand] about it. To the point that I was told as a minister that I was on the edge of getting involved of day to day running of the technical issues of a crown entity,” Bennett said.

       Seems Bennett is pointing the finger at HNZ, Robert.
       • Muttonbird 4.1.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 8:24 am

         You often ask for evidence of you being a fake leftie. Defending Bennett’s I-know-nothing approach and the blaming of officials is one example.
         • The Chairman 4.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 8:31 am

           Highlighting what has been reported isn’t defending Bennett.

           Nevertheless, are you prepared to let your dislike for Bennett get in the way of getting to the truth?

           She could actually be telling the truth, do you have any evidence to the contrary?
           • dv 4.1.1.1.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 8:40 am

             And yet Twyford reversed the Meth test policy on becoming Govt.
             So twas possible.
             • The Chairman …

               30 May 2018 at 8:51 am

               Twyford?

               Wasn’t that done on their (HNZ) own initiative? Rather than it being a Government directive?
               • dv …

                 30 May 2018 at 9:05 am

                 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104287037/the-meth-house-is-a-myth-theres-no-risk-from-drug-smoking-residue-govt-report-finds

                 In response to the recommendations, Housing Minister Phil Twyford has announced new standards and less stringent standards will be set for houses within the next year – with Housing NZ immediately changing its policy.

                 Perhaps not a directive, but pretty close.
                 • The Chairman …

                   30 May 2018 at 9:20 am

                   “Less stringent standards will be set for houses within the next year”

                   So despite what has come to light, seems it will still take Twyford sometime before he can set new standards.

                   If Bennett had info that she could have used to push through changes, but failed too, then she could also be held to account.

                   In the meantime, HNZ has announced it’s own changes. So they can call their own shots, therefore can also be held to account on their decisions taken.
       • Ankerrawshark 4.1.1.2

         30 May 2018 at 8:44 am

         It appears ms Bennett wasn’t smart enough to translate her concerns into action as mr Twyford did. Mr Twyford needs to be congratulated on such a positive result.
         • The Chairman 4.1.1.2.1

           30 May 2018 at 9:28 am

           Could be. Or it could be she lacked compelling evidence to back action being taken. Then again, she may of had the evidence and failed to act, therefore she would also be culpable.
           • In Vino 4.1.1.2.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 6:48 pm

             Chairman, I also think you are a fake leftie, and it is your normal haughty, super-correct tone that prompts me to write this.
             ‘may of had’????
             If Maori have the right to protect and promote their language ( as I believe they have) then you should try to avoid barbaric solecisms, and those who value our language should help you.
             You may write either “may have” or “may’ve’ – but “may of” simply reflects badly upon all else that you write.
             If you consistently strike a haughty, super-correct tone, please live up to it in your use of English.
             • Robert Guyton …

               30 May 2018 at 6:50 pm

               Yeah, he is.
         • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.2

           30 May 2018 at 11:06 am

           Indications are that Bennett is lying:

           However, in several news stories at the time Bennett and English said they approved of the Housing NZ regime.

           English said the agency was “rightly taking a firm stance on the health risks posed by meth, and will continue to do so for as long as it is detected in its properties” in 2016.

           And Bennett told Newshub in 2016 there was “no evidence” Housing NZ had evicted tenants unfairly.
       • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.3

         30 May 2018 at 8:55 am

         Bennett, Chairman, was unable to effect the necessary change to an unjust situation affecting many New Zealanders? What was she there for???
         Labour’s only been in a short while, yet the job is done! Tells the story…
         • The Chairman 4.1.1.3.1

           30 May 2018 at 9:24 am

           Labour haven’t got the job done yet, Robert. See my post above.
           • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.3.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 6:51 pm

             Okay, “being done”. Good enough for me. Better than “not being done”(National).
             • The Chairman …

               31 May 2018 at 8:45 am

               Full kudos to them for commissioning this report and acting to make improvements.

               However, the concern here is the rather conservative level HNZ has now adopted. We now risk repeating the same mistake again, unless the Government swiftly acts to correct this.

               Additionally, a decent Government would see the injustice caused, therefore would willingly offer compensation to all those unfairly impacted. We are not seeing this from this Government.

               Does that sit right with you, Robert?
               • Robert Guyton …

                 31 May 2018 at 8:49 am

                 Never satisfied, you. “Full kudos to them”, you say, then go on to qualify your praise, as you inevitably do, “good job, but …
                 Compensating for National’s fubar? Galling. Let’s wait till they own their actions then talk of compensation.
                 • The Chairman …

                   31 May 2018 at 9:30 am

                   Satisfied risking repeating the same mistake all over again? Of course I’m not and nor should you be.

                   National aren’t going to own this, evident by their pointing the finger at HNZ.

                   We now have compelling evidence, therefore we know people have been unfairly treated. Hence, the current Government should be acknowledging this and offering compensation. At the least, announcing they are looking into it.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     31 May 2018 at 11:00 am

                     They are, of course, “looking into it”. Your attempts to read between the lines in order to find failure is … tiresome and your glossing-over/dismissal of National’s culpability is … expected.
                 • The Chairman …

                   31 May 2018 at 1:15 pm

                   “They are, of course, ‘looking into it’”.

                   More rubbish from you as usual, Robert.

                   “I haven’t given any thought to compensation and I don’t intend to.” – Phil Twyford. 

                   http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/05/landlords-won-t-get-compensation-for-following-incorrect-meth-standards.html

                   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018647263/no-compensation-for-meth-evictions-housing-nz
       • Cinny 4.1.1.4

         30 May 2018 at 9:51 am

         paula bennet is so full of it and just covering her arse.

         “However, in several news stories at the time Bennett and English said they approved of the Housing NZ regime.

         English said the agency was “rightly taking a firm stance on the health risks posed by meth, and will continue to do so for as long as it is detected in its properties” in 2016.

         And Bennett told Newshub in 2016 there was “no evidence” Housing NZ had evicted tenants unfairly.”

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104287037/the-meth-house-is-a-myth-theres-no-risk-from-drug-smoking-residue-govt-report-finds
         • The Chairman 4.1.1.4.1

           30 May 2018 at 9:55 am

           “And Bennett told Newshub in 2016 there was ‘no evidence’ Housing NZ had evicted tenants unfairly.”

           Yes, I know. Do you have the evidence to prove otherwise – i.e. that Bennett had the evidence?
           • Cinny 4.1.1.4.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 9:57 am

             TC, am on a quest to find out and when I do, you’ll be the first to know.
             • The Chairman …

               30 May 2018 at 10:23 am

               Off hand, there was questioning by some in the scientific community in regards to the low level set. So there may be something to find.
           • Ankerrawshark 4.1.1.4.1.2

             30 May 2018 at 6:34 pm

             The chairman ms Bennett never got off her back side to find the information unlike mr Twyford
             • The Chairman …

               31 May 2018 at 9:17 am

               You could well be right, Ankerrawshark. Off hand, around 2000 scientist made submissions in 2017 with many of them stating testing was unnecessary.

               Moreover, as Draco highlighted below, there was concern raised by the Ministry of Health in 2016 (hat tip to mickysavage).
           • Zorb6 4.1.1.4.1.3

             30 May 2018 at 7:04 pm

             Bennett was on RNZ tonight saying she had real concerns about the meth testing and eviction of state house tenants,but even though she expressed concern to HNZ and other agencies,she was powerless to act.
   • DH 4.2

     30 May 2018 at 8:38 am

     From what I’ve seen it’s all about liability, we’re paying for the steady erosion of the ‘no fault’ ethos behind ACC.

     The bureacrats and interested parties really don’t have a lot of choice in these matters. If something is said to be a risk then ignoring the risk leaves people open to future claims for damages. That looming liability threat pushes people to take extremely conservative measures. No-one goes to work to be sued or face criminal charges so people do everything they can to eliminate the risk of that happening.

     As it transpired the meth threat was a bust but no-one was to know that for sure until it did transpire. People acted on the information available at the time and who can blame them for that. Sure, common sense said it was a gross overreaction but the law doesn’t give a rats arse about common sense does it.

     To my mind the only culpable party is the Government of the day and, sadly, they can’t be sued or charged for their refusal to establish reasonable and proper meth testing standards.
     • The Chairman 4.2.1

       30 May 2018 at 9:06 am

       The potential liability threat of taking an extremely conservative approach should have also been given far more consideration considering the massive costs and unnecessary stress it has caused.

       Therefore, risk should be correctly established before levels are set and lives are thrown into disarray.

       And while the Government of the day could well be culpable, just because they can’t be sued or charged doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get to the bottom of this.

       Surely we’ll want to prevent similar from occurring again, thus we need to establish who was culpable and what went wrong.
       • DH 4.2.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 9:15 am

         You missed the point by some margin there. The risk to landlords was being sued or charged for any harm that might befall their tenants.

         You can’t contract out of the law so creating your own testing standards would have been a foolish move, there’s no guarantees ‘the law’ would accept it. It was always for the Govt to set the standards. This Govt has shown how easy it was and one is left to wonder at the motives of the last Govt in refusing to do so.
         • The Chairman 4.2.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 9:37 am

           “This Govt has shown how easy it was”

           On the contrary. They have shown that despite the info that has come to light, it’s still going to take the Government up to a year to set new levels.

           The risk to landlords being sued wasn’t the only risk. What about homeowners that were impacted, they may now look at suing the Government.
           • Cinny 4.2.1.1.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 10:03 am

             What about the tenants who were evicted and more than likely incorrectly labelled by their communities or neighbours as P addicts? Don’t know about you, but if that happened to me I’d be devastated for myself and my children especially if one lived in a small community.

             How many children have suffered as a result, did one parent find out that another parent had been evicted and then try and take their kids away from them as a result? That’s a very likely scenario.
             • The Chairman …

               30 May 2018 at 10:28 am

               Indeed, others were also impacted. As I have mentioned further up. And at this stage the Government hasn’t ruled out compensating them. But there has been no mention that I’ve heard of in regards to compensating homeowners that were also impacted.

               I’m thinking we may now see class action suits similar to the leaky homes debacle.
             • greywarshark …

               30 May 2018 at 8:31 pm

               Just as well there are some NZs now keeping an eye on housing and the government. Everyone in Britain in the Great Depression got worn out by the amount of deprivation. And it would be echoed here if we aren’t careful as we have brought the British callousness over with us as colonials and it has persisted over nearly two centuries.

               This is a bit from George Orwell’s look at the homeless in Britain as in his book The Road to Wigan Pier from 1937.

               [The wagon/caravan will contain] such furniture as can be crammed in – sometimes two beds, more usually one, into which the whole family have to huddle as best they can. It is almost impossible to sleep on the floor, because the damp soaks up from below. I was shown mattresses which were still wringing wet at eleven in the morning. In winter it is so cold that the kitcheners have to be kept burning day and night, and the windows, needless to say, are never opened.

               Water is got from a hydrant common to the whole colony, some of the caravan-dwellers having to walk 150 or 200 yards for every bucket of water. There are no sanitary arrangements at all. Most of the people construct a little hut to serve as a lavatory on the tiny patch of ground….All the people I saw…especially the children, were unspeakably dirty…The thought that haunted me….was, What can happen in those cramped interiors when anybody dies? But that, of course, is the kind of question you hardly care to ask.

               Some of the people have been in their caravans for many years. Theoretically the Corporation are…getting the inhabitants out into houses; but as the houses don’t get built, the caravans remain standing….one woman with a worn skull-like face… struggling to keep her large brood of children clean,…[must have felt as if] coated all over with dung.

               One must remember that these people are not gypsies; they are decent English people who have all,,,had homes in their day.,,their caravans are,,,inferior to those of gypsies and they have not the…advantage of being on the move.

               Recapping The Road to Wigan Pier in the 2000s.
               https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/20/orwell-wigan-pier-75-years
           • DH 4.2.1.1.1.2

             30 May 2018 at 10:19 am

             “On the contrary. They have shown that despite the info that has come to light, it’s still going to take the Government up to a year to set new levels.”

             Huh? How long was National in power for?
             • The Chairman …

               30 May 2018 at 10:31 am

               When did compelling info to the contrary first come to light is what you need to ask.
               • DH …

                 30 May 2018 at 10:46 am

                 Compelling to whom?
                 • The Chairman …

                   30 May 2018 at 11:27 am

                   To everyone concerned to force through change.
                   • DH …

                     30 May 2018 at 11:54 am

                     Be realistic. It’s a bit like beauty, it’s in the eye of the beholder.

                     I believe the relevant Standard that HNZ and others have used as a reference is NZS 8510:2017. I’m not going to buy a copy just to have a look at it so I can’t comment on its content.

                     IIRC Standards are not of themselves statutory laws but one would be rather foolish to ignore them in pursuant of your own standards.

                     Those standards are developed with input from different parties, some with their own self-interests. I believe the science-oriented input to NZS 8510:2017 was somewhate looser than the end result.
                 • Incognito …

                   30 May 2018 at 10:36 pm

                   I’m not going to buy a copy just to have a look at it so I can’t comment on its content.

                   I believe it can be downloaded for free here:

                   https://www.standards.govt.nz/sponsored-standards/testing-and-decontamination-of-methamphetamine-contaminated-properties/
                   • DH …

                     30 May 2018 at 11:32 pm

                     Thanks, wonders will never cease I haven’t come across a free AUS/NZS Standard before.

                     It looks to pretty much explain how this all came about, except perhaps for an explanation as to how meth use became conflated with meth labs.
                 • The Chairman …

                   31 May 2018 at 8:50 am

                   “Be realistic. It’s a bit like beauty, it’s in the eye of the beholder.”

                   The reality is we now have compelling evidence, thus change is being made.

                   The standard that HNZ and others have used was flawed and the Government of the day seem to have failed in their oversight of that.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 30 May 2018 at 11:13 am

                 Longer than two years ago.
5. Robert Guyton 5

   30 May 2018 at 8:12 am

   Headline of the week:

   Act candidate Stephen Barry has a dream for the North Shore . It’s very stupid .

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104310522/act-candidate-north-shore-motorway-is-breathtakingly-stupid
   • Gosman 5.1

     30 May 2018 at 9:56 am

     Headline:

     ‘Shocker ! – Left wing reporter disagrees with plan of right wing candidate’
     • Muttonbird 5.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 10:11 am

       You are in favour of a plan to destroy public green spaces with a road which duplicates the Northern motorway?

       You can’t be serious.
       • Gosman 5.1.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 10:18 am

         I am neither in favour or not in favour. I leave that up to the good citizens of Auckland to decide.

         I was in favour of Transmission Gully which many here disagreed with but which thankfully the last Government fast tracked.
       • greywarshark 5.1.1.2

         30 May 2018 at 7:27 pm

         Stephen Berry, no relation to Maggie. Nepotism is not yet rife.
     • mac1 5.1.2

       30 May 2018 at 11:09 am

       Gosman, WTF has the politics of the reporter, as you imagine them, got to do with the demolition job that reporter did on the daft ideas of the ACT candidate?

       Except of course, to deflect from the actual arguments raised by the reporter.

       And to deflect from the daffiness of the ACT candidates ideas.

       Play the ball, Gosman, not the man.

       I note that NZ First had the wisdom to let go the candidate who was 38th on their list and who is now standing in Northcote for a Right-Wing Hansen style party. By-elections certainly bring out the dillies, the daffies and the daft.
       • Gosman 5.1.2.1

         30 May 2018 at 11:30 am

         There was no demolition job here. This is merely an opinion piece by a well known left leaning journalist. As such his political leanings are entirely valid when determining if his piece has any validity. It does not.
         • mac1 5.1.2.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 11:55 am

           Gosman, if your sole or main determinant as to whether argument is correct is the political views of the writer, then what are you doing here on a left-wing blog?

           I say there is a demolition job. I read the article.

           The proposals of the ACT candidate in resurrecting 1972 proposals to advocate for a 6 lane highway through the myriad green spaces in Auckland were rightly ridiculed.

           At the end, the writer said that a vote for this candidate is similar to voting for the anti-fluoride homeopathic candidate whose name appears next to the ACT candidate’s.

           I note that the writer’s left wing views are the sole determinant for your dismissal of his arguments. You have not attempted to justify your belief that his views have no validity, have you?
           • Gosman 5.1.2.1.1.1

             30 May 2018 at 4:34 pm

             If you want to have arguments why his opinion has no validity beyond his political bias (as well as showing why he has political bias) then look no further than his argument that the proposal is an old one. So what? Transmission Gully was first proposed back in the 1940’s or even earlier. It was still a good idea and one that the last National government took up in the past 5 years. The Rail loop in Auckland is also an old idea which seems to have merit. Trying to dismiss ideas because they are not original highlights the fact the author is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of objections.
             • One Two …

               30 May 2018 at 4:53 pm

               You’ve changed again Gosman…
               • mac1 …

                 30 May 2018 at 7:26 pm

                 Gosman, I suggest you look further.

                 There is more out there.

                 Out beyond the familiar, the known, the safe………

                 Other argument, other views, other perceptions.

                 Welcome to the Left Wing!

                 That’s why you’re here, isn’t it?
   • Anne 5.2

     30 May 2018 at 10:17 am

     It looks like it goes directly through the Birkenhead Shopping Centre. That’s it folks. Your shops and mall will be gone. Never mind, you can drive to Glenfield or even Albany for your daily shopping commutes. 😡
     • Gosmel 5.2.1

       30 May 2018 at 10:18 am

       I believe the plan involves tunnels.
       • Anne 5.2.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 10:28 am

         And where are the shops and the mall going to go while it is being built? Whenever a tunnel is being built the topical landscape gets smashed to pieces and a small fortune is spent on rebuilding it at a much later date.
       • Muttonbird 5.2.1.2

         30 May 2018 at 10:50 am

         I like your new handle, Go smell.
6. Nic the NZer 6

   30 May 2018 at 8:16 am

   As i understand it the 15mcg level(previously 5) is the level to which a known lab should be cleaned before further use.

   Its set very low because there are other harmful by products produced during meth manufacture which are difficult to detect or verify cleanup of.

   15 is higher and should have fewer false positives but its still use of a cleaning standard for a detection standard.
   • The Chairman 6.1

     30 May 2018 at 9:52 am

     “As i understand it the 15mcg level (previously 5) is the level to which a known lab should be cleaned before further use.”

     It’s still miles away from the several hundred micrograms Peter Gluckman is concerned about.

     And while 15mcg is higher, is it really high enough to be concerned about? According to Gluckman it’s not.

     Therefore, it potentially leads to us repeating the same mistake. Only this time, with a slightly higher but still conservative level being set.
     • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 11:28 am

       I’m wondering if Gluckman is confusing 100cm2 to 1m2. Hundreds per 1m2 would be fine I suspect but not hundreds per 100cm2.
       • The Chairman 6.1.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 11:38 am

         I don’t believe so as it aligns with other info I’ve heard.
         • In Vino 6.1.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 7:12 pm

           What Gluckman said was that there was no danger from houses where there has only been smoking/taking P. But Labs can leave far more dangerous chemicals. So what they have done is raise the level to where smoking/taking P will be eliminated. Only a lab is likely to leave more than the new limit. And in that case there could be more dangerous chemicals there.
           My source, before you ask, Chairman, is my own fertile imagination working in conjunction with my amazing alcohol-enhanced powers of logic.
           And if I turn out to be right, you will have wasted considerable time once again trying to sow doubt and dissension, won’t you, Chairman?
           • The Chairman 6.1.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2018 at 8:29 am

             The report clearly states the most commonly used methods no longer use solvents. Therefore, the primary contaminant associated with manufacturing is methamphetamine itself.

             So testing for methamphetamine alone would give no indication that other potentially harmful chemicals are present. Therefore, we risk creating unnecessary costs and harm all over again, albeit with a higher but still conservative standard.
           • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.1.1.2

             31 May 2018 at 8:37 am

             “my own fertile imagination working in conjunction with my amazing alcohol-enhanced powers of logic”

             Thinking at it’s best! In vino veritas!
7. Nic the NZer 7

   30 May 2018 at 8:24 am

   Recently the Italian president vetoed the formation of an Italian government. This was because the proposed finance minister had previously looked at a proposal to exit the Euro, if needed. Its not the first time that the needs of the currency have overruled a democratic decision.

   https://rwer.wordpress.com/2018/05/28/president-mattarella-of-italy-from-moral-drift-to-tactical-blunder/#more-32724
   • dukeofurl 7.1

     30 May 2018 at 9:51 am

     Its really a ‘soft coup’.

     Its to be expected of course, and the new government is disposed of and a toady moves in.
8. millsy 8

   30 May 2018 at 9:35 am

   Now we need to look into the earthquake standards.

   I’m not too sure about anyone else, but I’m not too comfortable with the idea of emptying buildings and letting them stand empty for years on end, and this practice needs looking into.
   • James 8.1

     30 May 2018 at 10:15 am

     Would you be comfortable if there was an earthquake and 00’s of people died if you were wrong ?
   • Bewildered 8.2

     30 May 2018 at 10:27 am

     Building codes and regs are a little bit more evidenced based with global acceptance than meph standards Likewise established over many years
     • mauī 8.2.1

       30 May 2018 at 11:07 am

       If our old state housing stock was largely multi-storey apartments built on reclaimed land, with unreinforced masonry and dodgy steel connections holding up heavy floors you might have a point. However I very much doubt it.
9. ropata 9

   30 May 2018 at 9:35 am

   Nice story about Venezuelan democracy on TDB today.

   Remember their economic problems are caused by capitalist thievery and the US led economic blockade

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/05/28/guest-blog-vinnie-molina-the-bolivarian-revolution-in-venezuela-shall-overcome/
   • Gosmel 9.1

     30 May 2018 at 10:21 am

     “Remember their economic problems are caused by capitalist thievery and the US led economic blockade”

     LOL!

     I love how the failures of socialism is always blamed on other things and never on the stupid policies themselves.

     Also how come the US has this amazing ability to collapse socialist economies but less power over other Capitalist ones?
     • Gabby 9.1.1

       30 May 2018 at 10:38 am

       Sounds like that’s where we should be importing builders from doesn’t it gosmerp.
     • ropata 9.1.2

       30 May 2018 at 11:30 am

       > Also how come the US has this amazing ability to collapse socialist economies but less power over other Capitalist ones?

       because corporate profits are at stake
       • Gosman 9.1.2.1

         30 May 2018 at 11:32 am

         How are corporate profits at stake in Venezuela? The main industry in the country is State controlled .
         • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 11:39 am

           Which means less profits for the bludging capitalists.
         • ropata 9.1.2.1.2

           30 May 2018 at 5:40 pm

           To clarify, the USA is happy to smash any country that doesn’t bow to the demands of its corporations, or attempts to defy the stranglehold of the petrodollar.

           Witness US smear jobs on NZ now that we have a slightly left leaning government
           http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2018/05/cherry-picking-chinese-influence/
     • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3

       30 May 2018 at 11:38 am

       The financial blockade isn’t a result of socialist policies but the result of capitalist ones.
       • Gosman 9.1.3.1

         30 May 2018 at 4:35 pm

         How is this supposed financial blockade impacting Venezuela exactly?
         • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3.1.1

           31 May 2018 at 1:44 am

           It’s listed in the article. It’s one of the problems of ‘free-trade’.
           • Gosmn 9.1.3.1.1.1

             31 May 2018 at 2:58 am

             The reason are not listed at all. It is merely posted as if it was a fact (which it is not).
             • Draco T Bastard …

               31 May 2018 at 10:57 am

               So, you’re saying that the US sanctions are having no effect at all?

               So, what would be the point of the US’s financial war upon Venezuela?
     • adam 9.1.4

       31 May 2018 at 2:30 am

       Loving not one piece of evidence of counter argument. Do we need to bring up Argentina again Gosman to prove how much of a plonker you are?
   • Bewildered 9.2

     30 May 2018 at 10:30 am

     Any country / cult run on pure ideology no matter what is rooted It usually comes down it will be better this time because I will be in charge
   • Gosman 9.3

     30 May 2018 at 11:34 am

     I am interested to see if your views on Venezuela gather much support amongst lefties here. I suspect not as Venezuela is now becoming a pariah nation and one to avoid mention at all costs for most mainstream leftists. It is only hard core ones like you that will be banging this particular drum.
     • lprent 9.3.1

       30 May 2018 at 5:12 pm

       Speak for yourself I always thought Venezuela was an economic nutcase country sustained largely by resource extraction.

       I also could never quite understand the nutcase right wing droning on and on about it as being the epitome of what the ‘left’ thought as their fandom economy. My opinion was that was largely the right nutbars grabbing their crotch with excitement to build a meme about how the left ‘thinks’. Which appears to be what you are doing?

       As you are aware, there is no monolithic left and never has been.

       BTW: exactly the same economic issue or over indulgence in resource extraction is what I think is the same fundamental weakness in the NZ (and the aussie) economies as well as Venezuela .

       However here the idiotic economic numb skulls who indulge in it appear to be largely from the right. They mine the soils, water and and different mineral resource rather than oil and put the benefits to their beneficiaries among the affluent rather than the poor. But it is exactly the same thing. Unsustainable stupidity indulged in for political reasons to benefit a group voting for selfish reasons. In our case by the National party.
       • Gosman 9.3.1.1

         30 May 2018 at 5:18 pm

         Interesting view that I suspect will not be shared by the more extreme leftist on this site. As already evidenced by some the cause of the problems in Venezuela is not the narrow resource based extractive nature of it’s economy but the actions of the US taken against the Socialist government.
         • Ed 9.3.1.1.1

           30 May 2018 at 5:26 pm

           What is an extreme leftist, as described by Gosman, whose politics lie to the right of Attila the Hun?
           • Gosman 9.3.1.1.1.1

             31 May 2018 at 7:50 am

             My politics are mainstream. People like Draco support policies that are fringe
   • Draco T Bastard 9.4

     30 May 2018 at 11:37 am

     The opposition candidate Falcon issued a statement calling for a new election citing a low voter turnout as the reason. Only 48% of those eligible cast their vote but he forgot to mention that the opposition had called its supporters to boycott the elections and not to vote.

     To be consistent he must also be demanding new elections in the US where turnout isn’t much better.
   • Baba Yaga 9.5

     30 May 2018 at 7:41 pm

     No, Venezuela’s economic problems are caused by the adoption of an economic system that fails everywhere it is tried. It’s called socialism.
     • Grey Area 9.5.1

       30 May 2018 at 7:50 pm

       Bit like capitalism then?
       • Baba Yaga 9.5.1.1

         31 May 2018 at 10:40 am

         Ah, no.

         https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/12/19/its-not-capitalism-that-causes-poverty-its-the-lack-of-it/&refURL=https://www.bing.com/&referrer=https://www.bing.com/
     • Draco T Bastard 9.5.2

       30 May 2018 at 8:51 pm

       Strange that, throughout history, it’s always been socialism that’;s saved capitalism. Without it capitalism destroys the society that it arises in.

       That’s 5000 years of recorded history for you.

       Proof that capitalism is a failure because of the greed of the rich.
       • Baba Yaga 9.5.2.1

         31 May 2018 at 10:41 am

         Yeah like Socialism is saving capitalism in Venezuela. And Russia. And China.
         • Draco T Bastard 9.5.2.1.1

           31 May 2018 at 11:01 am

           I haven’t seen anything of socialism in either Russia or China.

           Venezuela was definitely getting worse under capitalism and the people now keep voting for socialism despite the capitalist attacks upon it from other countries so things must be better than before.
           • Gosman 9.5.2.1.1.1

             31 May 2018 at 12:48 pm

             The people who can be bothered to vote in a rigged political system keep voting for Socialism.

             Fixed it for you Draco 😉
           • Baba Yaga 9.5.2.1.1.2

             31 May 2018 at 1:52 pm

             Russia was a socialist state. The author of this piece refers to communism, but try not to be confused:

             “Gorbachev understood that the shabby socialist economy was incapable of sustaining a world power. Perestroika was introduced, and with it glasnost, a limited opening up of channels of criticism. Glasnost proved suicidal. The surrealism of Soviet society could not survive the light of criticism. Inevitably, the ideological house of cards erected by the Party propagandists and disseminated by foreign fellow-travelers over seven decades collapsed.”
             https://fee.org/articles/the-soviet-tragedy-a-history-of-socialism-in-russia-1917-1991-and-russia-under-the-bolshevik-regime/

             “Venezuela was definitely getting worse under capitalism…”
             I think not. But it can’t possibly have been any worse than it is now.
     • halfcrown 9.5.3

       31 May 2018 at 8:04 am

       “adoption of an economic system that fails everywhere it is tried. It’s called socialism.”

       Yeah, But I think the beneficiary Dairy Farmers including that dick who had the notice about Ardern are thankful at the “adoption” of a good old bit of Socialism
       at the moment.
       • Baba Yaga 9.5.3.1

         31 May 2018 at 10:42 am

         They will be more thankful to the economic reforms of the 80’s and 90’s that made them internationally competitive.
         • halfcrown 9.5.3.1.1

           31 May 2018 at 2:53 pm

           Interesting, So I take it then that as they were so grateful and are so “internationally competitive.” they will not take or need the generous benefit these pack of beneficiaries are getting from the government.

           “They will be more thankful to the economic reforms of the 80’s and 90’s that made them internationally competitive.”

           Also, that is bullshit as if I remember correctly there was nothing but winging how were they going to survive now all the export incentives were being stopped and the suspensory loans and tax avoidance schemes like having a swimming pool c/w Barbecue area “just in case of fire”
           • Baba Yaga 9.5.3.1.1.1

             31 May 2018 at 4:35 pm

             “So I take it then that as they were so grateful and are so “internationally competitive.” they will not take or need the generous benefit these pack of beneficiaries are getting from the government.”
             That’s up to them. They have been the victims of a natural disaster beyond their control, a bit like the citizens of Christchurch. But then many businesses experience that and don’t get government aid.

             “…as if I remember correctly there was nothing but winging how were they going to survive now all the export incentives were being stopped…”
             Absolutely there was, and yet 35 years later we lead the world, and are selling our expertise to the world. Isn’t the market a wonderful thing.
10. Southern Man 10

    30 May 2018 at 10:24 am

    Since the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis, the authorities have repeatedly told us there is no risk to human health from eating meat or milk from infected animals. They would say that wouldn’t they – got to keep the ‘confidence of the market’.

    Now, a Massey University professor of food safety describes the disease as a *low* risk to humans. In time, I expect the risk deniers will obfuscate as scientific evidence mounts, in much the same way as the concerns over the A1/A2 milk proteins.
11. Herodotus 11

    30 May 2018 at 11:03 am

    “Amateurs Talk Strategy, Professionals Talk Logistics”
    Perhaps it is time for the government to evolve their policies with a mind open to the above quote.
12. Philip Ferguson 12

    30 May 2018 at 4:24 pm

    Don Franks on Jim Rose’s attempt to justify a racist judicial and prison system:

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/05/29/a-response-to-jim-rose-on-maori-prison-population/
13. Morrissey 13

    30 May 2018 at 7:25 pm

    Norman Finkelstein on the “quite unimpressive” Alan Dershowitz.
    Highly Recommended!

    “I told him his book was a tissue of lies, a complete fabrication…”

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/05/28/10-the-book-you-claim-to-have-written/
14. eco maori 14

    31 May 2018 at 6:44 am

    Good morning The AM Show there is a good reasoning for ECO MAORI pushing for equality for the ladies it’s the fair thing to do ladies are more intelligent than men and humane it’s good to have Amanda on the show this raises the humanity and intelligence of the show.
    You cannot see the flaws in locking people up for years 5000 Maori young men most who just need a bit of guidance who come from broken family created by this system no father to gide them set boundaries for them wake up you know they wanted to privatise Hospitals Prison school so what did national do the ran these to the ground and say the system in not working let’s privatise every thing like America . Duncan its is the justice system that failed to do there job of keeping the people who killed while on bail not the 5000 Maori men it’s not hard to observe people look at there history and identify the risky people and keep them in jail 1 persent of the 5000 50 mistake the justice system has made that’s a fact that’s what these civil servents get paid to do this is a logical way of thinking about this problem
    Its is best to try the eradication route for this bovine virus this virus will effect beef farmers as well as dairy farmers. Culling of these cows should have started on the 1/1/2017 No then it would not have blown out to what we have now Ana to kai Ka kite ano
15. eco maori 15

    31 May 2018 at 7:09 am

    The AM Show there you go Simon Bridge using crime and scare tactics to try and raise his polling rates the same phenomenon that made the bovine virus blow out to this mess. If he really cared about Aotearoa he would work with labour greens to come to a intelligent humane solutions to OUR Prison population look at our scandernavion cousins empty prison.
    Ka kite ano
16. eco maori 16

    31 May 2018 at 8:21 am

    Here’s someone crying in his coffee link below
    Male, pale, but not stale

    OPINION: I can’t help that I’m white and ageing. But it feels like society’s kicking me.

    Ka kite ano

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