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Open Mike 30/01/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 30th, 2017 - 131 comments
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131 comments on “Open Mike 30/01/2017”

  1. Ad 2

    Anyone see Federer v Nadal last night?
    Seriously awesome tennis.

  2. Sanctuary 3

    Just remember this: After Trump’s presidential decree banning people from several countries, hundreds – possibly thousands – of civil rights workers and pro bono lawyers descended almost spontaneously on US airports to fight for peoples rights.

    It warms the heart.

    • Morrissey 3.1

      What the United States needs is mass public protest. Ongoing. If they leave it to the cowards and fools in Congress, Trump will continue doing what he’s doing.

      The people of Romania showed the way in 1989 when they overthrew the U.S.-backed dictator Ceaușescu by doing THIS day after day after day….

      http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/21/article-0-001FD8F400000258-293_468x325.jpg

      • garibaldi 3.1.1

        Be very worried. Trump will continue doing what he is doing regardless.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

          +1

        • North 3.1.1.2

          Mid-term US House of Representatives elections are less than two years away, Same with the Senate as to a third of its members.
          http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/look-to-2018-the-midterm-elections-could-be-the-most-important-one-for-the-democrats-yet/

          In good taste substituting ‘the US’ for “The Democrats” in that article’s title, relentless protest offers the high prospect of ‘self-interest first’ GOP representatives turning on the unhinged Trump and reverting to pre-convention positions.

          Trump’s personal God fantasies may not be impacted by that of course – he’s lived a lifetime of encouragement to hubris – and he may well “continue doing what he is doing regardless”, but electoral effect would be profound with potential loss of the much vaunted control of both houses – emoluments impeachment looming ?

          Already the loathsome draft dodger Trump is vulnerable to the reputational damage GOP “loser” war hero McCain seems intent on doing him. Assisted, weirdly, by psychotic behaviour Trump neither resists nor his dark inner circle can control. In time the damp squibs Ryan and McConnell will fall into line.

          US checks and balances may well save the day within two years, if only by dint of coiffed idiots feeling electoral heat. Someone should get the message to the “late great Abraham Lincoln” (Trump’s absurd reference during the campaign) that all is not lost.

        • aerobubble 3.1.1.3

          You mean talking bollocks that keep media from covering what he is actually doing, or doing studffg that is also nonsense overturned in courts. If Trump is not a senile old git, then what is he is up to coz he’s highly effective at keep media enthralled.

          Take abortion, we know the predominant Catholic scotus wont be willing to out pope the pope, so the whole abortion is over scare is a joke. Similarly the border crap, Obama saw more s.American migrants return home that Trump will be hard pressed to match him. Similarly Muslim countries is largely a temporary smoke and mirrors policy. Its about wjat Trump is is doing.

      • James 3.1.2

        But there are millions of Americans that voted for him and agree with it.

        • North 3.1.2.1

          You don’t keep up James ? Already there are 2-3 million more Americans who voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. Trump with already the lowest approval rating of any new president for a long time…….The Chickenhawk Dubya (another outrageous down to $$$ draft dodger) being the last as I recall.

          You claim to be a serious commentator James. How come you’re blind to those patently salient factors, US Constitution, and the imminence of mid-terms, James ? Pretty weak arse that, For a ‘serious commentator’.

          ‘The Orange Being Squeezed’ too much for you what ? Like Actoid Steve Wathall somewhere above. Ooooh, sorry ’bout that. You better get outa Jonestown quick James. Before “I’m Peach……Mint”. Two years baby. Two years.

        • NewsFlash 3.1.2.2

          James

          One in five eligible voters voted for trump, I’m sure you can do the maths, four out of five didn’t vote for trump, that’s hundreds of millions.

  3. Morrissey 4

    Is Arianna Huffington the stupidest person in America?

    Here she is being schooled, with two other fools, by one of the smartest….

    • North 4.1

      Yes Morrissey…….what a disgracefully mindless, artless, hag ! “Just returned from Israel….” was the tip-off. A hag who cares not a fig for the children of Gaza murdered and mutilated by the Eastern European NatziYahoo (whom The Orange is extra buddy buddy with). Encouraged in that by annual $US 3,000,000,000 US military aid. A curse on the bloodthirsty hag. And them who pay the ‘baby’ bounty !

  4. Pat 5

    more government sanctioned corruption emerging (emerging at least to those not directly affected)

    http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/85690/how-eqc-has-avoided-being-stung-rising-land-values-cameron-preston-has-back-story

  5. Penny Bright 6

    Regarding the Labour / Green ‘State of the Nation’ speeches and the path forward?

    Constructive criticism from the future ‘fiery’ and ‘fierce’ Independent MP for Mt Albert – Penny Bright 🙂

    (AKA ‘Pullya Bennefitt 😉

    Where are Labour and the Green’s clear policies prioritising the implementation and enforcement of the Public Records Act 2005 – which would transform transparency and accountability in our corrupt, polluted tax haven New Zealand, which SO needs a massive ‘clean up’?

    “Where the people lead – the politicians will follow…”

    Want to see some REAL policies that will help to ‘Roll back Neo-liberal Rogernomic$’?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1701/S00171/the-2016-corruption-perception-index-isnt-worth-the-paper.htm

    “If New Zealand was truly ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – shouldn’t we arguably be the most transparent?

    So – why isn’t the Public Records Act 2005, being properly and lawfully implemented and enforced?

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345729.html

    “17 Requirement to create and maintain records

    (1) Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.
    …”

    “So, how come we don’t know exactly where billion$ of taxpayer and ratepayer public monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors at NZ central and government level?”

    “What has anyone from Transparency International New Zealand had to say about the endemic and entrenched bribery and corruption revealed in the unprecedented bribery and corruption conviction of just ONE corrupt ‘public official’ and just ONE corrupt contractor – where the bribes totalled $1.2 million over 7 years?

    (Where are the Press Releases from Labour and the Greens condemning this entrenched bribery and corruption, and what needs to be done to fix this problem?)

    “Reasons for the Verdict of Fitzgerald J”

    CRI-2015-044-001286

    [2016]NZHC2970
    THE QUEEN v STEPHEN JAMES BORLASE (&) MURRAY JOHN NOONE

    https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/r-v-borlase-reasons/@@images/fileDecision

    “How many thousands of ‘public officials’ and private contractors are there across NZ central and local government?”

    “As a genuinely (politically fiercely) independent, self-funded proven
    ‘anti-corruption campaigner’ and Independent candidate for the 2017 Mt Albert by-election here is my ACTION PLAN:

    “ACTION PLAN TO ENSURE ‘OPEN, TRANSPARENT AND DEMOCRATICALLY ACCOUNTABLE’ NZ GOVERNMENT AND JUDICIARY”:
    ……..

    Read on – if you dare 😉

    Penny Bright
    PROVEN ‘anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner’.

    Future ‘fierce’ and fiery Independent MP for Mt Albert 🙂

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: I can’t see the relevance of this comment to the post. Don’t do it again.

    BTW: The PB immitation was pretty good. ]

    • greg 6.1

      nonono penny labour/greens will not release policy until nearer the election it needs to be carefully timed and in small understandable bits
      what we should be demanding is where is nationals because they never release any policy and because they don’t want to defend there record the yellow cowards wont front in mt Albert

    • Ad 6.2

      With National not standing, and Greens simply using it as rehearsal for their Auckland-wide campaign, Penny this could be your chance to scoop up all those National Party votes, all those Act votes, join them together with the NZFirst and Socialist votes, and … you’ll be like Liberty at the Barricades leading your People to Victory!
      Victory is within your grasp Penny!
      Penny Bright you really could win this thing you know.

      Think of all the respect you’ll have when you win!
      All that pay!
      All those people you currently have to rail against, they will cower before you and fear your wrathful policies.
      What shock on Guyon Espiner’s face.
      Like another Trump, but right here, right now.

      You’ll be an MP! For 6 months at least!
      Then you can go into coalition with whomever you want!

      Become a Minister of Local Government! From Day 1!

      Then you can make them do all that you’ve ever wanted.
      There’s so little time.

      It’s going to be amazing to see you up there, at last.

      At Last!

  6. gsays 7

    hi pm and maui,
    re police pursuits; all the power rests with the authorities, sobriety, training, support(both on the ground and with the ‘comms’ team) etc.

    the idea of being comfortable that someone dies, as a result of being in a persued car, is abhorrent and very cold.

    in a related incident recently in australia, i listened to a senior police officer describe what had unfolded.
    we heard all about the environment and driving conditions, about the drivers behaviour and attitude, extensive details of the victims including a baby, and a single line, late in the statement informing us it was a police pursuit.

    even the police aren’t happy with the situation.

    • The idea that only people in authority are responsible for their actions is a pernicious one. When you drive a car, you and no other are responsible for what you do with that car. That is the number one most important fact about driving that a beginning driver needs to learn. If your car ends up speeding through a red light and hitting two other vehicles, you, the person who was driving it, are the only one who could have determined a different course of events.

      The Police can try and find ways to minimise the carnage that fuckwits like this cause, but minimise it is the most we can hope for and for fuck’s sake let’s not pretend Fuckwit-Behind-The-Wheel had no agency in the matter. It would be nice if failing to stop was a severe aggravating factor in sentencing, as it would put the responsibility where it properly lies.

      When one of these ambulatory turds kills himself without killing or maiming anyone else, I do regard that as a good outcome because it’s taken him off the road before he gets to kill anyone else. That’s not “cold,” it’s “realistic.”

  7. Morrissey 8

    The New Zealand Herald: getting it wrong for 79 years

    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/new-zealand-herald/1938/9/30/11

  8. Ad 9

    For all the lovelies who want to “turn Labour left”, here’s a great little contest to test that out on:

    On the one side is super-racist EU fracturing Euro killing Marine Le Pen, on the rise and ready to strap on the Presidential Knee Pads with Donald Trump, and on the other side, the Socialists have chosen Benoit Hamon, a staunchly leftwing rebel outsider who wants to:
    – introduce a universal basic income
    – legalise cannabis and
    tax robots, among other things.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/29/french-socialists-leftwing-rebel-benoit-hamon-elysee-manuel-valls-francois-hollande-presidency

    Let’s see how that one works out.

    • Andre 9.1

      Seems to me we can get a big clue on whether there’s any value in turning Labour left from Joe Carolan’s vote count in the Mt Albert by-election.

    • gsays 9.2

      hi ad, not too sure what you are getting at here.

      “lovelies”?

      can you want labour to turn left without being a lovely?

      do you have a pejorative term for the status-quo ists who don’t want to scare the horses, i am doing ok thanks?

      france is france, probably better to look at left policies in this country, put them up the flagpole and see who salutes them.

      eg 100% free education,
      feed all children in schools,
      communioty gardens in schools,
      ftt, hone heke tax or robin hood tax……

      • bwaghorn 9.2.1

        I don’t want someone else feeding my child in school , my child my responsibility .

        • gsays 9.2.1.1

          does that mean no child could be fed in a school?

          would you be happy for your child to assist growing, preparing and cooking in order to feed other children?

          • bwaghorn 9.2.1.1.1

            im pro gardens in school and such , and feeding those whose parents are unable or willing to do it is a must , but i will not trust a bunch of office wallas to feed my kid .
            What we really need is to come at it from several directions , educating parents on healthy choices , improving incomes so parents can do it themselves, education around the great contraception out there now (which i believe is having an effect)

        • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.2

          Why not?

          And don’t just say that it’s your responsibility. You’d be paying the taxes to provide the food so your responsibility is covered.

          • bwaghorn 9.2.1.2.1

            would you trust serco to feed your loved ones ?

            • McFlock 9.2.1.2.1.1

              Alternatively, the school kitchens could be managed by a school employee and the parents help cook as a community effort.

              But even if serco (or compass) provided the meals, if you’re that snickety you’d probably just feed your kids anyway. One less school meal to make.

              The point is that your kids might be fine, but a lot of families are struggling. All kids need to be fed in school. How would your system best balance those conflicting facts?

              • bwaghorn

                It’s not snickerty to feel its my kid so it’s my responsibility , in this day and age breeding is optional ,which i know makes me sound right wing as fuck. but i did say up thread that it is a problem that has to be attacked from many angles for many years.
                the simplest system would be for the school to get a number of how many need feeding in their school and have an existing outfit like a cafe make the lunches , a sandwich , a nut/ muesli bar and some fruit isn’t a big ask.
                Funding it is the thorny question.

                • McFlock

                  Breeding might be optional (depending on how trumpy our own govt gets). Changing circumstances aren’t.

                  Local catering might work for 20 or thirty (but there’d still be a base cost in organising it), but not one of the schools with hundreds of high-dep students.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  the simplest system would be for the school to get a number of how many need feeding in their school and have an existing outfit like a cafe make the lunches , a sandwich , a nut/ muesli bar and some fruit isn’t a big ask.

                  No, that is the most inefficient, time consuming, privacy invasive method available that will be used to denigrate and abuse both the parents and the children.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.2.1.2

              Is that a reason or just a fear?

              Of course, I’d have the food brought in from local farms and prepared by local people but that’s me.

              • David C

                Food from local farms?

                A Hereford heifer and a truck of turnips?

                last time I looked farms didnt grow bread or muesli bars.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Last time I looked I make my own bread and muesli bars from stuff produced on farms.

            • Gael 9.2.1.2.1.3

              Not bloody likely.

        • Psycho Milt 9.2.1.3

          I don’t want someone else feeding my child in school…

          Yes. For one thing, I’ve seen what schools think kids should be eating. “Healthy” food nazis can leave my kids alone.

          • Molly 9.2.1.3.1

            French school lunches look pretty good.

            “. For one thing, I’ve seen what schools think kids should be eating. “Healthy” food nazis can leave my kids alone.”
            And yet you put your kids in the same system in order to teach them how they should be thinking. How does that sit with you?

            (BTW, I don’t think either is a problem, if you are prepared to spend your time – and meals – with them, showing another choice).

            • Psycho Milt 9.2.1.3.1.1

              It had its moments. We did eventually get the school to stop passive-aggressively punishing them for not attending religious education classes, and they got earfuls from me every time Life Education Trust came round to tell them that recreational drug use is wrong and ruins your life. But that’s par forf the course – no parent is 100% happy with what the school tells their kids.

              • Andre

                Heh. The god-botherers had their “Life Choices” program going at my kids’ school while I was coaching the chess players. None of the keen chess players were religious types, so we decided to do a second session in the “Life Choices” time slot. All of a sudden we had a lot more chess enthusiasts. Including the son of the woman running the “Life Choices”.

                • North

                  Well done Andre ! Chortle inducing indeed. The God-Botherers can be such oppressive, fear peddling, manipulative arseholes. If ya been brought up right (as I was) then ya have the good stuff without the need for all that shit.

                  I know a guy who’s a spectacularly artful (and resilient in the face of institutional bullying) young lawyer. Doesn’t buy any of that wankery, In The Law or in the bible-banging area. His commanding ethic is this…….”In my life I try to hurt no-one !”

                  What more could you ask ?

              • Molly

                The “option” of religious classes gets me too. Especially when you consider over the course of a year that adds up to around 36 hours. And yet, schools are diligently opposing any child missing time during the school year to go overseas.

                I remember the attitude when I was at primary, with teachers being delighted with the students return, and getting them up to tell the class about their travels.

        • The Fairy Godmother 9.2.1.4

          Preparing healthy lunches is not easy. Particulalry when there is no refridgeration for yoghurts etc. It is just another thing to be done at the end of a busy working day usually by mothers. Even if the children do it themselves the have to buy the stuff in and supervise the younger children. When my children were growing up I would happily have paid extra in taxes so they could have a healthy cooked lunch at school. I would still pay higher taxes so all children could have this.

        • Molly 9.2.1.5

          Your child is required by law to be present at school for around seven hours a day, five days a week.

          In every other government institution – you either receive remuneration, or are given meals – ie. hospital, prison – sometimes both.

          If we are keeping children in school for this length of time, and good nutrition is a requirement for achievement – then that is easy fix isn’t it?

          The community aspect of shared lunches, as well as the physical and learning benefits would only be of benefit to schools and wider communities.

          • Gabby 9.2.1.5.1

            It might even save money, if the cost of providing meals is deducted from working for families etc.

            • In Vino 9.2.1.5.1.1

              School meals happened in Europe because in the coldest parts of winter (worse than here) kids could not just sit outside and eat sandwiches, nor (more importantly) walk home and back for lunch. (Most Mums were at home in early times.)
              Here, we have never needed that. But I like the insightful comments above: I agree that a wise society would provide decent food for its children at school.

      • garibaldi 9.2.2

        Yes gsays. France is France, and it will turn right because of the migrant problem.

    • Siobhan 9.3

      Sure, lets just keep on with the current middle of the road NZ Labour Party, UK New Labour, and DNC policies.

      And hows that been working out??

    • Bill 9.4

      I don’t know anything about Benoit Hamon bar the expected piece of slur in ‘The Guardian’.

      But let’s say a comparison to Corbyn is about right. So Hamon will broadly advocate policies that are in line with social democratic ideals rather than liberal democratic ideals.

      That’s what the SNP did – and won. And then won again. And again.

      The parties that stuck with liberal democratic policies lost. And then lost again. And again.

      And just like in the UK with Corbyn, the liberals within the left in France, are gunning for Hamon (that includes a fair proportion of the mainstream media – y’know, outlets like ‘The Guardian’)

      What were the policies advocated by Trudeau in Canada? Well, a liberal politician from a party called, ‘The Liberal Party’, dumped liberal democratic policies, ran on a social democratic platform and won. Meanwhile, the ‘New Democratic Party’, who for some reason known only to themselves (maybe they were taking a leaf from NZ Greens?) abandoned a social democratic platform, well they tanked.

      In the US, Sanders ran on what could best be described as a social democratic platform and very nearly took the Democrat leadership.

      Win or lose for Hamon, the tide is well on the turn Ad. And if you’re wedded to liberalism, then you’re going to be all washed up with the rest of them. And here’s the thing, you don’t have to be an anarchist or autonomous Marxist or whatever shade of radical to stand against liberalism. Social Democrats would and do too. People who have no political knowledge find the social democratic message appealing (you did notice that Trump essentially twisted a lot of Sanders’ rhetoric, aye?) Anyway – the numbers of disillusioned liberals is only set to grow. So think about it.

      And then come on over here and join with all us ‘lovelies’ 😉

      • Ad 9.4.1

        That would be … lovely.

        Except I think you’re just a little ahead of yourself kicking over ash looking for coals.

        There’s the remote possibility that there will be no further wins by hard-right movements. Maybe Brexit and Trump are its global high points. Maybe the global mainstream media will become so enraged that the opposition to the hard right governments around the world will itself become a gobal upwelling. Maybe, like Federer, the purest and the most elegant moves will win against the odds again.

        The above is highly unlikely.

        As I pointed out, there’s some great global contests coming up.

        Our own in New Zealand is definitely one of the most globally interesting match-ups, due to the strength of the Greens compared to any other democracy. A win would be the closest since the Realos of the German Green Party got into a proper coalition anywhere. I think the approach we have here is the right one. The standard left needs reviving, agreed. But Labour doesn’t want to lose its historical identity, nor let go of its usefully unresolved internal neuroses.

        So reviving Labour with an exterior political entity in a proposed coalition is both dignified and effective. Reviving the country with the same is the right approach.

        I sincerely hope that arrangement is effective this year.

        • Bill 9.4.1.1

          This is the bit you’re missing Ad…

          …there will be wins by ‘hard-right’ movements until and unless liberals step aside.

          Liberalism is dead. How does it shuffle into the dustbin of history?

          Well, either liberals try to cling to power (by sledging social democrats and anything else to their left while continually playing the fear card) and incidentally enable the ‘hard -right’ or opportunistic populists….which spells the end to liberalism.

          Or liberals step aside – take down the barricades they keep constructing against the left and…yeah, that spells the end to liberalism too.

          The only question that needs to be asked is, just how misanthropic are they?

          So far, the answer hasn’t been anything anyone’d be wanting to write home about.

  9. Paul 10

    Wrathall is a troll.
    Ignore his Islamophobia.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Muttonbird 10.1

      His Twitter page is a place populated by all sorts of right wing intolerance.

      • joe90 10.1.1

        Note his enthusiastic approval of an ancient theme.

        • Muttonbird 10.1.1.1

          Wow. Amazing similarities between Nazi propaganda and the current US administration.

          • Morrissey 10.1.1.1.1

            Wrathall is a science-denying chump as well. He made a laughing stock of himself in 2010 when he made a complaint to the BSA, which found it lacked any merit whatsoever….

            https://bsa.govt.nz/decisions/2548-wrathall-and-television-new-zealand-ltd-2010-076

            • HDCAFriendlyTroll 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Interesting interpretation there Mo, especially given these paragraphs:

              [19] At the outset, we do not accept TVNZ’s finding that human induced global climate change is uncontroversial. Likewise, the related issue of whether the observed sea level rise on Tuvalu is due to climate change is also disputed.

              [20] However, in our view, this item clearly focused on the experiences and perspectives of the local people, exploring their reactions to the changes in their environment, the ways in which they were adapting to those changes, and how they felt about the possibility of leaving their homeland if it became uninhabitable. It did not attempt to explore the possible causes for those changes. The Authority has previously determined that presenting personal views on, and experiences with, climate change in the Pacific, did not amount to a discussion of a controversial issue of public importance (see Clancy and TVWorks1).

              [21] Because the programme did not discuss a controversial issue of public importance, we do not consider that it was necessary, in the interests of balance, for the programme to explicitly state that the rising sea levels could be explained by natural processes, as argued by Mr Wrathall.

              • Morrissey

                The four people on the BSA are not scientists, and they bent over backwards to be nice to our Jew-hating, Arab-baiting friend. That spurious exercise of somehow “balancing” one sound view against one harebrained view is a mandated exercise, no matter how ridiculous it might be. It results in the sort of blather you have so astutely pointed out.

                Four scientists would have simply thrown his complaint in the bin, along with the rest of the day’s offerings from flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, 9/11 Truthers and Elvis-spotters.

            • Steve Wrathall 10.1.1.1.1.2

              And since 2010, sea-level has continued to rise at a non-alarming 3 mm/year (~30 cm/century). And yet the alarmists continue to predict metres of rise this century. Who’s denying science?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                There’s a debate among scientists about the likely future sea level rise. That is science.

                So that makes the person denying it, you.

                • Richard McGrath

                  However if the debate is about the veracity of the global warming hypothesis itself, that’s apparently science denial.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Yes, it is apparent that people who deny real world observations are pathetic and ridiculous. Or is it Quantum Physics you think you can debunk?

                    • Steve Wrathall

                      Predictions are not “real world observations” by definition. The non-alarming sea level rise is a real world observation.

                    • Richard McGrath

                      Real world observations should be objective (assuming they’re not being altered to ‘hide the decline’ or similar, but the conclusions and related hypotheses emanating from those observations are surely debatable.

                    • lprent

                      Richard, all you are demonstrating is that simply you don’t appear to understand the basic physics of greenhouse gases.

                      After all if you did then you’d actually be able to point out the basic points that you have a problem with – using some maths and links to the relevant science. Even a poorly trained quack should be able to figure out the basic physics.

                      Since you don’t, then I’d presume that your political religious beliefs tend to dominate over your scientific abilities.

                      On the subject of ‘objective’ measurements. You really are talking simple minded crap. These are measurements done over the whole world over very long periods of time and using a wide variety of measurement technique. They have inherent error in location, in time, in technique, to the methods of recording and storing them, and simply because weather and even climate is chaotic and subject to local changes outside of human caused climate changes.

                      And that is just the less important in-air measurements. The ocean measurements that are of more significance are pretty sparse both geographically and in the water column.

                      Almost every earth science measurement is only valid statistically, and even that is only because there are a lot of them made.

                      Your call for a ‘objective’ measurements just seems to confirm that you have an inability to understand even the most basic principles of measurements in earth sciences.

                    • Macro

                      Here are some “real world observations” for you Steve.
                      http://www.climatecentral.org/news/study-reveals-acceleration-of-sea-level-rise-20055
                      While the current rate of sea level rise is around 3 mm / year, that is accelerating from an average rate of around 1.7 mm / year over the past century. Up until the recent past – most sea level rise was driven by our warming oceans, however we now see the sudden collapse of the Greenland ice shelf and the WAIS notably the Larsen A, B and C https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-study-shows-antarctica-s-larsen-b-ice-shelf-nearing-its-final-act
                      These both have the potential to raise sea level by metres.
                      The real world observations back up the predictions and support the science.
                      Time for you and Richard to get real.

              • Anne

                You are a cretinous fool whose knowledge of the sciences equates with that of the mythical village idiot. It is typical of many right wingers like yourself who are too dumb to know just how dumb they/you are. We’ve all been associated with them.

                Intelligent people recognise their intellectual limitations and are capable of being persuaded with logic, sound reason and expert knowledge. But oh no, not dumb a**es like you. Unlike others on this site I don’t waste my time with detailed facts and figures because I know your ilk are way too stupid to understand.

                Are you a Trump supporter?

                http://www.salon.com/2016/09/30/idiocracy-now-donald-trump-and-the-dunning-kruger-effect-when-stupid-people-dont-know-they-are-stupid/

        • Morrissey 10.1.1.2

          Wrathall was too ignorant to realize it, but what he endorsed was the modern version of this cartoon, which appeared in the Viennese paper Das Kleine Blatt in 1939….

          http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/564b63a41f00002400f3cf97.jpeg

          • Steve Wrathall 10.1.1.2.1

            So the Jews fleeing pre-WWII Germany had 50+ majority-Jewish countries to go to, then tried to set up Jewish law as superior to local law when they were accepted, and many of them carried out terrorist acts in the name of Judaism in their host countries. Your analogy is asanine.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.2.1.1

              many of them

              A vanishingly small minority, with nowhere near the number of victims as people killed by family members, buses, right wing economic policy, or homegrown bigots.

              Blow harder.

            • Morrissey 10.1.1.2.1.2

              I thought so. You’re as anti-Jewish as you are anti-Arab.

              I’m not at all surprised.

        • Steve Wrathall 10.1.1.3

          So I liked a tweet by Bosch Fawstin? An ex-Muslim mohammed cartooner who jihadists tried to murder in Garland TX. As he was born a muslim, I must be racist against him, and then he changed his race, right?

          • Morrissey 10.1.1.3.1

            You don’t know what you think, actually, because you don’t read seriously or in depth.

            You’re a fool.

  10. Ad 11

    Check out Stephanie Rodgers’ ode to Mr Bradbury; all quotes from his own words on his own blog, apart I suspect from the very last paragraph:

    https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/unity-a-poem-inspired-by-martyn-bradbury/

    I think this is a small piece of genus, building on Stephanie’s consistent message over the last few months of treating all the minor causes of the left as if the only way to win any election for the left is through treating the causes of your colleagues with respect, and acting on forming solidarity.

    And on that she is perfectly on the money.

    • Ad 11.1

      Genius. Not ‘genus’.
      Excuse me.

      • swordfish 11.1.1

        Wouldn’t worry so much about that one word typo, Ad. Much more concerning is the sentence within which it resides – one of the less coherent passages to emerge from your finger tips in recent years.

        And the message I’ve managed to wrestle from that messy grammatical entanglement – that we should all be respectful of each others’ particular ideological proclivities – sits rather awkwardly next to your unbearably smug little piss-take (upthread) against Labour’s Left-leaning … what did you call them again ? … oh that’s right … “Lovelies”.

        I’ll resist commenting on the irony of an affluent, privileged, middle class Liberal Centrist with Clintonista tendencies having the temerity to call other people “Lovelies”. 🙂

  11. Infused 12

    I have a lefties I work with (damm annoying) he said that speech turned him off. He’s American born and said Andrew came across fake as hell.

    He’s a 10yr labour supporter

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: This is rather weak as it carries absolutely no actual argument related to the post. It simply looks like made up hearsay.

    Your followup comment looked like a advertisement for a National list MP and was completely unrelated to the post.

    I’d suggest that doing such obvious diversion comments like these is not the safest thing you could do on this site. ]

    • Infused 12.1

      To add he’s been impressed by Chris bishop who’s turned up to alot of his events in his own time. Blew him away. He does alot of non profit work.

      Donno if he will vote Nats but interesting.

      • swordfish 12.1.1

        This is one of the most genuine, believable and authentic things I have ever read.

      • Ethica 12.1.2

        Infused, I would doubt your informant is a Labour supporter. Chris Bishop is not turning up to events ‘in his own time’, or doing charity work out of the goodness of his heart. He is just being a National Party list MP (with lots of National Party money) who wants to be an electorate MP. He does such things so people think he cares. Labour’s Ginny Anderson will easily outclass him though in the election as she has integrity, intelligence and a much better message for the local electorate.

    • Infused 12.2

      I wrote a big reply to this, but in the end, I don’t really give a shit. I was just comparing how Labour is losing solid support, easily, when it shouldn’t be. And how Little comes across on TV isn’t genuine.

  12. Glenn 13

    Socialist Party in US doubles in numbers since Trump won.
    http://inthesetimes.com/article/19795/socialisms-trump-bump-democratic-socialists-america
    Democratic Socialist Party of America and Socialist Party USA (more leftwing) have both doubled their supporters and the ACLU and Planned Parenthood have had big increases too.

  13. fisiani 14

    Ethica you obviously do not live in the Hutt. Chris Bishop will easily win Hutt South by over 1,000 votes and also increase the Party Vote. No wonder Mallard chickened out. Chris was brought up in the Hutt and is well known by the locals. He is very hard working . He will probably be PM one day. Many of the Standard posters live in a socialist bubble getting confirmation bias from their twitter feed. Get out and listen to people. No one outside the bubble could tell you anything about the content of the launch. It’s only success was confirming that a vote for Labour or Greens means the same thing. Choose a colour. Any colour. The MOU is great for the Greens but will be disastrous for Labour. I suspect Labour will not get any list seats and that Little will be out of a job. I wish there was a betting market for the election, I understand the real world.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: See /open-mike-30012017/#comment-1293479

    And please make an effort to hit the Reply button. ]

    • Ethica 14.1

      Fisiani, are you Chris Bishop?

      You are seriously underestimating Ginny Anderson.

    • Infused 14.2

      Hensley, don’t bother. Some of these people really have no idea. Mallard left for exactly this reason.

      Chris has been out there 7 days a week for going on 2-3 years now. I don’t know how he does it to be honest.

      • repateet 14.2.1

        “Chris has been out there 7 days a week for going on 2-3 years now. I don’t know how he does it to be honest.”

        Just read all the Bishop stuff and this last bit provides a challenge I can’t resist …

        7 days a week for going on 2-3 years? I thought God rested after a certain number of days.

      • Ethica 14.2.2

        I have a friend who voted for Chris Bishop and National last time. He’s a minimum wage retail worker. He was rewarded by losing his compulsory work breaks, losing a guaranteed day off at Easter, and an increase in his rent and other expenses. He feels betrayed and won’t make that mistake again.

        • fisiani 14.2.2.1

          I have a street who voted Mallard and Labour last time. They like young Chris. Your mate cannot blame Chris Bishop. You give me one anecdote and I’ll give you a hundred. Chris Bishop is winning over at least one person a day. Labour candidate vote – 365 x 3 , Bishop +365 x 3. So easily a 1,000 majority, more like 2,000 plus majority.

          • McFlock 14.2.2.1.1

            cool story, bro

            • North 14.2.2.1.1.1

              Yeah we know about your fabulosity FusedAnus. And your post-truth ‘math’. Like the one Sunday afternoon 2014 when singlehandedly you won over 93.7% of riders on a Pomare-Wellington unit, to Trump (sorry….. Keydashian). For fear of stressing your cheesecutter I don’t mention your spectacular hit rate with puzzled Countdown shoppers up The Valley. You truly are heroic in your struggle to persuade yourself you’re significant, FusedAnus. Got a way to go to match ‘young’ Kellyanne Conway though ma bro’.

  14. Macro 15

    Trump to spend more time with the Queen?
    Donald Trump has taken to Twitter to assure everyone that a new petition calling for him spend even more time with the Queen during his state visit now has more than five million signatures.
    😈
    Well one despot to another…

    White House Press Secretary, Sean Spicer, was asked by the press pool for a link to the online petition.

    He explained, “This is just typical of you fake news organisations, just typical, trying to take down our new President.

    “Of course there is a real petition with five million names on it, yes there is, shut up!

    “A guy on Twitter said it, so it must be true, why would he lie?”

    Spicer refused to confirm whether the ‘guy on Twitter’ was President Trump.

  15. joe90 16

    heh

    Days until achieving MAJORITY disapproval from @GallupReagan: 727Bush I: 1336Clinton: 573Bush II: 1205Obama: 936Trump: 8. days. pic.twitter.com/kv2fy0Qsbp— Will Jordan (@williamjordann) January 29, 2017

  16. joe90 17

    Duterte’s saner the Trump.

    MANILA, Philippines

    (AP) – Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte asked the United States on Sunday not to store weapons in local camps under a defense pact, saying his country may get entangled if fighting erupts between China and the U.S.

    Duterte said in a news conference that he would consider abrogating a 2014 defense pact that allows U.S. forces to temporarily station in designated Philippine camps if the Americans build weapon depots in those encampments.

    “They’re unloading arms in the Philippines now,” Duterte said, identifying three areas where U.S. forces were supposedly bringing in their armaments, including the western Philippine province of Palawan, which faces the disputed South China Sea.

    “I’m serving notice to the armed forces of the United States, do not do it, I will not allow it,” Duterte said in the televised news conference after meeting top military and police officials.

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/politics-government/article129470414.html

    • NewsFlash 17.1

      Yeah, he’s jumped ship, China is his friend now, dislike to corruption and drug users and dealers, the human rights commission is trying to have him charged with murder for pushing a suspected corrupt official out of a helicopter and then boasting about his action, Just Another Nut Job.

  17. It is gratifying to see so many upset with the mango Mussolini’s banning Muslim immigrants into the states.

    I struggle to grok this though – aren’t many, even on this site, not wanting too many immigrants here due to a perceived lack of land, resources and so on.

    Is it that he is banning an identifiable group via religion – could be ethnicity, sexuality, ablement etc rather than the attempted reduction of immigrants.

    Sure he has dressed it up with all sorts of – keeping extremists out da da da dah

    but how do people reconcile this? or have I just got it completely wrong.

    For the record I don’t believe in the assumptions within my second paragraph.

    • Andre 18.1

      It’s not a muslim immigration ban, it’s a travel ban on people associated with seven muslim majority countries. So it affects visitors, people that have already completed their immigration procedures and even those who have gone as far through the process as getting their green card for permanent residence and have already made the US their home. There’s also the tidbits of information suggesting Trump wants to apply a religious test and is attempting to disguise that.

      Overall, from his past statements it’s clear he wants to reduce immigration into the US from pretty much all groups (except smokin’ hot white females). But it appears he is going about by singling out groups and applying restrictions to that smaller group. First he’s coming for Syrians/Libyans/Iraqis/Iranians… then he’s coming for… That’s a lot more severe and chilling than changing policies in a ethnicity/religion blind way with the goal of reducing overall immigration sometime in the future.

      Just a few of my problems with current immigration policies into New Zealand are:

      that it admits many people into a situation where they are extremely vulnerable to exploitation and are competing with (and crowding out) our locals for entry-level opportunities,

      we don’t have policies and processes in place to ensure our infrastructure keeps up with the demands imposed by a rapidly increasing population (resulting in things like the housing problems),

      our welfare state settings are extraordinarily generous to some groups of immigrants at the same time as they are punitive towards locals.

      • marty mars 18.1.1

        Thanks Andre, McFlock and Muttonbird

        I did wonder if I was being a bit precious – I still have twinges around this but I think I’ll sit and read more before I spout off.

    • McFlock 18.2

      For me, it’s separate to the general immigration debate.

      I believe Trump has made a ruling based on religion, likely moderated by personal business interests, that in particular targets refugees (the most vulnerable and in need group of immigrants there is).

      That’s beyond the questions of resources and national identity that people raise when debating about whether net migration should be half a percent or five percent of the population.

      • joe90 18.2.1

        I believe Trump has made a ruling based on religion,

        If they’re lying and the order was drafted by his inner circle, overriding objections and failing to coordinate with officials, I reckon he’s made a ruling based on provocation.

        Senior admin official says top congressional staff members on immigration were involved in drafting of exec order.— Jim Acosta (@Acosta) January 29, 2017

        Not one GOP lawmaker or staffer we've talked to will confirm this. Hill Rs say they didn't know what was in order until it went public https://t.co/aVjILPCXsu— John Bresnahan (@BresPolitico) January 29, 2017

        Homeland Security secretary found out about the travel ban EO moments before the president signed it, per NY Times.https://t.co/P4GcYsVa3L pic.twitter.com/BLTp0s9ITx— Brad Heath (@bradheath) January 30, 2017

    • Muttonbird 18.3

      Not irreconcilable. Immigrants, students, and refugees are welcome here as far as I’m concerned but NZ’s infrastructure is underfunded and unable to cope so that communities are now under stress. The Nats refuse to take the tax from the high earners, the people who benefit the most from cheap foreign labour. A different model needs to be found, one where central government is held responsible for the effects of its policy settings.

  18. garibaldi 19

    On RNZ this morning Little said there will be no electorate deals between Labour/Greens. Could this decision cost them the election? I think it could well do, unless they have a ‘cunning plan’ to do deals under the table to allay the outcries of foul play by the hypocritical Right.
    Regardless, it is time Labour got real and stopped thinking it is a 40 – 50% party. The tide has gone right out on ‘third way’ lefties trying to play at being kind free-marketeers.
    If, on the other hand, Little is trying to cosy up to NZF by shafting the Greens again in the vain hope of a coalition with Peters, Marks and Jones, then he is a bloody misguided dreamer.

    • McFlock 19.1

      Both parties are well over the threshold, so no problem for them.

      Might screw Mana, though.

    • Electorate deals are pointless, since it’s the party vote that counts and neither of these parties is at risk of not making the threshold.

      There’s conceivably some point in electorate deals that would combat National’s hangers-on (Dunne and Seymour), but Dunne’s the only one that could possibly be at risk from a Green/Labour deal – even then, National voters are as capable of strategic voting as anyone else, so there wouldn’t be much point.

  19. joe90 20

    The new member of the National Security Council.

    (video inside)

    "Christians are in a crisis, breitbart is our Christian platform to the world" breitbart preeches hate speech and bigotry #NotChristian pic.twitter.com/ZVdFbS6ECR— Jessika Jayne (@JessikaJayne) January 30, 2017

    https://twitter.com/JessikaJayne/status/825911923485048834

  20. Pat 21

    “There was never a gap of ideas. What there was, just as in the 1930s, was a social democratic party too keen to ingratiate itself with the establishment and a deep division between good, decent people – between liberals, Marxists, feminists, greens etc. Whereas the bigots unite behind toxically simplistic stories, progressives tend to fight against one another and thus fall prey to the Nationalist International.”

    https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2017/01/25/the-establishment-is-in-denial-interviewed-in-english-text/

    a united european left or a belated vision?

    https://diem25.org

  21. gsays 22

    In regard to drivers and their responsibility;
    Police in a pursuit also must consider the public, a duty of care, if you will.

    Just cause a driver is fleeing don’t give carte Blanche to per sue.
    Being comfortable with the notion that the police bear no responsibility, reeks of an authoritarian mindset.

  22. fisiani 23

    Fisiani is my handle. It is a noble Chitumbuka name. Do you think you are being humorous to be faecal obsessed? Is that what passes for constructive criticism? Such references are never moderated. I can only assume that such schoolboy attempted humour is actually tolerated and approved. That explains the abject failure of the Left.

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