Open mike 30/06/2013

166 comments on “Open mike 30/06/2013 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   30 June 2013 at 7:14 am

   Humbug Corner
   
No. 6: BARACK OBAMA

   President Obama has called Mandela a “personal hero” and said the imprisoned activist’s willingness to risk his life for the cause of equal rights helped inspire his own political activism.

   http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/obama-paying-tribute-mandela-africa-19530636#.Uc6QFuD7JFQ

   “L’hypocrisie est un hommage que le vice rend à la vertu.”
   —-François de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims

   – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
   Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
   More appalling humbug….
   No. 5 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
   No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
   
No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”

   No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”


   Open mike 09/06/2013

   
   
No.1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”
   
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02062013/#comment-642288
   • Murray Olsen 1.1

     30 June 2013 at 4:07 pm

     It does make me a little sicker than normal to see Obama attaching himself to Mandela. Obama barely manages to talk the talk, let alone walk the walk. The equal rights Obama seems most concerned about are the rights of GEC, Monsanto, and the other corporations. As far as humans go, an equal right to be spied on or whacked by a drone is not much of a right at all. Yuck.
     • Populuxe1 1.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 4:30 am

       But then again I’m assuming you’re not black. Methinks you might want to check your white privilege there.
       • Murray Olsen 1.1.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 7:56 pm

         Do blacks love Obama and privileged whites dislike him? You are so informative. Thanks.
       • Morrissey 1.1.1.2

         1 July 2013 at 8:01 pm

         But then again I’m assuming you’re not black. Methinks you might want to check your white privilege there.

         ???!!??

         He’s not malicious this time, simply bewildered.

         As usual.
2. Morrissey 2

   30 June 2013 at 7:39 am

   As you read this item, bear in mind that Barack Obama is presently in Africa pretending to be a champion of democracy….

   California chalk protester hit with gag order
   RT, June 28, 2013 20:56

   A California man facing more than a decade in prison for writing with chalk on public sidewalks has been told he’s barred from discussing the details of his controversial case outside of court.

   Judge Howard Shore issued a gag-order in a San Diego, California courtroom this week against Jeff Olson, a 40-year-old activist that used washable children’s chalk to scribble anti-bank slogans in public space last year. According to the San Diego Reader, the gag-order issued on Friday also applies to witnesses, members of the jury and potentially others, a measure that Truth-Out editor Mark Karlin said is “unprecedented” for a misdemeanor trial.

   Olson has been charged with 13 misdemeanor counts of vandalism for chalking slogans such as “No Thanks, Big Banks” and “Shame on Bank of America” on the sidewalks outside of branches in the San Diego area throughout 2012. Now as the criminal trial against him wages on in Southern California, the defendant and anyone remotely involved in the case are reportedly muzzled by a ban that could…

   “I’m am not going out on a limb to say that this is outrageous,” quipped Olson.

   http://rt.com/usa/chalk-olson-diego-san-404/

   Comments from readers include these anonymous beauties….
   “The prosecutors should be hanged as traitors.”
   “You can talk vs. Blacks + poor in USA; but you can’t badmouth the rich.”
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     30 June 2013 at 12:49 pm

     Yep, we’re seeing a return of Lèse-majesté with the rich as the new aristocrats.
   • Rogue Trooper 2.2

     30 June 2013 at 1:11 pm

     Unfreakin’ believable : Thanks for the link too, Draco.
3. Morrissey 3

   30 June 2013 at 7:58 am

   Humbug Corner
   
No. 7: BARACK OBAMA

   In Pretoria, Mr Obama said Mr Mandela’s example of “the power of principle, of people standing up for what’s right continues to shine as a beacon. The outpouring of love that we’ve seen in recent days shows that the triumph of Nelson Mandela and his nation speaks to something very deep in the human spirit; the yearning for justice and dignity that transcends boundaries of race and class and faith and country.”

   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23109574

   “L’hypocrisie est un hommage que le vice rend à la vertu.”
   —-François de La Rochefoucauld

   – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
   Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

   More egregious humbug….
   No. 6 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
   No. 5 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
   No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
   
No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”

   No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”


   Open mike 09/06/2013

   
   
No.1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”
   
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02062013/#comment-642288
   • Populuxe1 3.1

     1 July 2013 at 4:37 am

     There is something quite gobsmacking about a white person pontificating about what one black man should think about another black man. I imagine Mandela has a far greater significance to someone like Obama who has experienced racism and oppression every day of his life, than he would to you, little angry white person.
     • felix 3.1.1

       1 July 2013 at 8:27 am

       Odd that you focus on the blackness of the two people in Morrissey’s comment, when that had nothing whatsoever to do with the point he’s making.

       Or is it not a black thing at all that you’re bringing up? Is it that we’re not allowed to question the sincerity of a politician’s platitudes if they’re about someone significant to that politician in any way?

       Cos I tells ya, there’s something gobsmacking about both those possibilities.
     • Morrissey 3.1.2

       1 July 2013 at 8:08 pm

       There is something quite gobsmacking about a white person pontificating about what one black man should think about another black man.

       The only pontification on show here, other than your own, is the empty pontification, grandiose phraseology and monstrous insincerity of President Hopey Changey—gibbering on about “yearning for justice and dignity”, while pursuing America’s modern versions of Mandela with the zeal of a coon hound going after a fugitive slave in the swamps of Alabama.

       I imagine Mandela has a far greater significance to someone like Obama who has experienced racism and oppression every day of his life, than he would to you, little angry white person.

       If Mandela has “significance” to Obama, how come Obama shows absolutely none of Mandela’s moral and political courage?
4. North 4

   30 June 2013 at 8:07 am

   What the hell is ShonKey Python up to ?

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10893823

   A charter for abuse and dehumanisation ?

   PPP – private profit from punitivism (surprise surprise).

   Cheers ShonKey Python. Your Ceaucescu Club colleague David Cameron in Britain has tutored you well.
   • JK 4.1

     30 June 2013 at 8:43 am

     When there are not enough jobs for those who are fit and well, how on earth are the mentally ill expected to find a job for 30 hours a week, and be able to work at it for all those 30 hours.
     • leftriteleft 4.1.1

       30 June 2013 at 9:23 am

       All is fine. Even Judith Collins, JonKey, et al have a job. Pays well too. Thanks TAXPAYERS.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         30 June 2013 at 9:45 am

         And now the private agencies who WINZ will pass their clients with mental health issues to, have jobs as well. Well done NACT.
         • rosy 4.1.1.1.1

           30 June 2013 at 10:02 am

           “And now the private agencies who WINZ will pass their clients with mental health issues to

           Clipping the ticket, money for nothing and all that.

           The private agencies also have the private records of mental health patients. Lawyers and the Human Rights Commission will surely have more jobs working out the privacy breaches. Extra well done NAct
           • Anne 4.1.1.1.1.1

             30 June 2013 at 11:38 am

             Who are these “private agencies”? This is horrific stuff. Creating an underclass who will be forced to live with the stigma of having been transferred to a privately run mental health work charter programme. That is a sure bet their names and a description of their condition will eventually end up in the public arena.

             Benny-basher Bennett has her footprints all over it of course. A “wrap around” service. Her favourite expression – doesn’t mean a thing.

             I wish someone would wrap her around and see how she likes it!

             Edit: I see rosy has already made the same points. No harm in re-stating them.
             • Treetop …

               30 June 2013 at 7:14 pm

               The conclusion I have come to about Bennett is, that if she did not get the help that she got from the state when she was struggling she would not be where she is today.

               Bennett’s mind set is that those who are mentally unwell benefit from working. A person can only do what they can manage and what they can manage needs to be instigated by them and to be productive.

               Further poverty (sanctions) and an increase in anxiety will occur when a person is forced by a policy which has unrealistic expectations.
       • AmaKiwi 4.1.1.2

         30 June 2013 at 10:57 am

         So Phil Goff, Trevor Mallard, and Annette King.

         If the party members ranked the list, they could end up 60, 61, and 62.

         The dead hand of the past versus LP democracy.
         • Murray Olsen 4.1.1.2.1

           30 June 2013 at 4:10 pm

           How would they get so high? I think those three would be happier in National, not on the Labour list at all.
   • muzza 4.2

     30 June 2013 at 9:25 am

     And the band played on….

     These are very sick , dangerous people *in charge*. No its not John Key, in charge!
   • AsleepWhileWalking 4.3

     30 June 2013 at 10:45 am

     The Mad Doctor is hell bent on getting everyone better, or at least off welfare. Suicide = success!

     A recent article on the successful UK model which WINZ are now following:
     http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/atos-boss-earns-44k-a-week-while-disabled-fight-to-keep-just-131/
     • xtasy 4.3.1

       30 June 2013 at 11:06 am

       AsleepWhileWalking –

       The MAD doctor is coming to YOU!

       http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10893823

       “Mentally ill people will be moved off state-funded benefits and into work using private employment agencies who will earn hefty fees for the service.

       The Herald on Sunday has obtained leaked Ministry of Social Development documents detailing plans to get people suffering from depression, stress and anxiety disorders into paid work.

       Private providers are being lined up to deliver “wrap around” case management for sickness beneficiaries with common mental health conditions to help find jobs and co-ordinate clinical support so they stay in work.

       If successful, private providers could earn up to $12,000 for placing a client considered to have “entrenched” mental health issues in a job where they are working for 30 hours or more a week.”

       It seems the Herald on Sunday is onto something!

       So it seems that “mad doctor” David Bratt, Principal Health Advisor for MSD and Work and Income is finally getting his way, and that Paula Bennett and her underlings are going to push the agenda all the way now!

       As faithful “disciples” of the teachings of one Professor Mansel Aylward, former Chief Medical Officer of the Department for Work and Pensions in the UK (DWP), and later Unum Insurance sponsored boss of his own department at Cardiff University, pushing the agenda that most “common” mental and other health conditions are basically just not diagnosable and thus “in people’s minds”, they now seem to be trialling a plan to get this put into practice in little old New Zealand, the best real life laboratory already for social and economic “experinments” the developed world offers.

       http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/04/18/welfare-reform-the-hidden-agenda-by-mo-stewart/

       This is stuff to follow, I presume. “Work sets you free”, getting a whole new meaning, a presumably more “humane” one, right here in New Zealand!

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei
       • AsleepWhileWorking 4.3.1.1

         30 June 2013 at 11:22 am

         Mmmm….there are only a limited amount of employers offering jobs for envelope stuffers and none that I have seen over the past few years.

         Experienced Case Managers often stuff up benefit entitlements. The idea of lay people trying to manage beneficiaries with serious mental health issues is very concerning and is likely to lead to many more people going without their full and correct entitlement. The contractors may be experienced with mental health consumers but it’s a big jump from there to figuring the ins and outs of the Social Securities Act.

         Also disturbing is the amount of money – $12K! Holy heck. That’s enough for most people to boot their own grandma off welfare and into completely unsuitable work.
         • weka 4.3.1.1.1

           30 June 2013 at 12:01 pm

           Not sure the contractors will be doing entitlements and beneficiary payments. Looks like they’re taking over WINZ’s job seeking functions, not the entitlement ones.

           “If successful, private providers could earn up to $12,000 for placing a client considered to have “entrenched” mental health issues in a job where they are working for 30 hours or more a week.”

           How long after the placement will the agency be paid? What happens if the client isn’t in the job a year later? Another $12,000?
           • xtasy 4.3.1.1.1.1

             30 June 2013 at 11:01 pm

             weka – you are spot on. Queries I made prove, this has nothing to do with delivering extra health care in the way of psychological or other support, it is a new player being put into the agenda, to simply be commissioned to get those “sick” and supposedly “pseudo incapacitated” into work, nothing more or less!

             It is a scheme to have some outside providers, and you will be well advised to read up on websites of Te Pou, and The Wise Group, for instance, to know that it is supposed to put another “link” into a “network” of services, so they will give the clients the bit of “extra motivational push”.

             WINZ will pre-select, relying on the old network of “designated doctors”, and their internal “advisors” of the Bratt category, and then the short shift is onto a service, that will get paid rewards to get the buggers off the benefit and into “meaningful” employment, for hefty rewards, it seems.

             Talk about the UK model hitting the ground here, Mansel Aylward (the Unum paid facilitator, and google UNUM, for god’s sake and Black Triangle, same as ATOS Victims Group also, to get a balance) has done a proper job for Bennett, it is ALL on now, full power ahead, sick or disabled, two thirds are considered to be “illness believers”, short “malingerers”, none else. Face the bloody music, dear folks, the war on beneficiaries has just begun, in little corner of the world islands called Niu Zilliland.
             • McFlock …

               30 June 2013 at 11:09 pm

               yeah, it makes my (admittedly overactive) cynicism bell ring like the clappers.
       • mickysavage 4.3.1.2

         30 June 2013 at 11:28 am

         This has the fingerprints of Paula Bennett all over it.

         You can imagine the policy document used to make this proposal. Stripped of all the diplomatic language and public serviceesque it would have read something like this:

         “These lazy bludging *&^%s should get of their arse and toughen up and get real work. After all when I was a solo mum I pulled myself up by my shoestraps and look where I am today.”

         The paper of course will make no reference to Paula’s removal of assistance for solo mums seeking education so they can get meaningful work and also the fact she is one of the best paid beneficiaries of public largesse in the country.
         • AsleepWhileWorking 4.3.1.2.1

           30 June 2013 at 11:33 am

           Mental health consumers who also happen to be single parents will be hit particularly hard due to the wide variation of support available to them (eg grandparents taking pressure off, difficulty accessing a GP or second tier health service, no further support from non custodial parent etc, etc)
       • AsleepWhileWorking 4.3.1.3

         30 June 2013 at 11:28 am

         I just realised that Dr Bratt’s own comments may contradict this new strategy. He did say that it wasn’t just work improved health, specifically he said that meaningful work was needed and that some jobs could be demoralising.

         I hope that the work they find is meaningful but given the UK example I think I’ll just sit back and watch those comments bite him in the arse.
         • xtasy 4.3.1.3.1

           30 June 2013 at 11:19 pm

           AsleepWhileWalking –

           PLEASE, do not freak out, nor delude yourself. Dr Bratt did keep a relatively low profile while he was hired and employed under a Labour led government, but once the Nats took over, at least since 2010, he has been like “hell break loose”!

           He delivered all this, and there has been no denial, regret, repentance or any withdrawal AT ALL!

           http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/GP%20CME/Friday/C1%201515%20Bratt-Hawker.pdf

           http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/2012/Fri_DaVinci_1400_Bratt_Medical%20Certificates%20are%20Clinical%20Instruments%20too%20-%20June%202012.pdf

           http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/12615-dr-david-bratt/

           Have a close look and read, he has gone under the radar, even after others and I raised various issues and aspects here and elsewhere. MSD and WINZ totally SUPPORT the man, and they believe Mansel Aylward, the “mad UK professor, yes, they want to cull people off benefits, same as ACC has tried and is to a degree successful in culling off people off claimants lists.

           There will always be a few malingerers and cheats, but they carry it a hell of a lot further, to basically claim that up to two thirds of sick, disabled and injured just believe””or pretend in being ill or sick, while according to them there are NO physical symptoms or proof. So that means, they will declare a full war and hit out across the board, against you, me and many others, challenging them, prove you are too sick and cannot crawl to a job!

           Wake damned well up New Zealand, stop sleeping and day dreaming, this is the most hostile attack on sick, disabled and incapacitated in modern day NZ history!!!
       • Rose 4.3.1.4

         30 June 2013 at 12:01 pm

         There’s a difference between being informed about what is going on and scaremongering. It seems that if you scaremonger, you are actually scaring beneficiaries more and not helping.

         Lighten up.
         • xtasy 4.3.1.4.1

           30 June 2013 at 11:28 pm

           Rose, I cannot believe where you come from, you have no information that I and a fair few others have, it seems, this is very serious stuff here, you are irresponsible to comment as you have.

           I do not want to scare people, I am damned well having a duty to WARN them, so they will not fall into traps to be conned into saying, hey, I would try to work, but end up with a profit focused, outsourced provider, who gets paid by WINZ to get benes off the payroll!

           I bloody well know what I am talking about, and I have more info than you seem to have. This is bloody serious stuff, but in New Zealand the government always comes across cunning and pretending, once you are there to face the music, they offer you no back door, it will be all your fault to not keep up, and your benefit will be cut, unless you have a solid, supportive doctor or specialist support you.

           I have been through the bloody MILL twice, my dear, they are cunning and dishonest bastards, the ones that run MSD and certainly also that is the top dog, called Bennett!
     • Jackal 4.3.2

       30 June 2013 at 11:47 am

       Great article you’ve linked to there AsleepWhileWalking, although the government is more likely to simply be copying something a bit closer to home: the ACC model. Some people will have been forced off compensation before they’re properly rehabilitated and are now facing the prospect of being forced off the appropriate benefit as well. So much for New Zealand being egalitarian.
       • xtasy 4.3.2.1

         30 June 2013 at 11:36 pm

         Is this coming from the Jackal, really?

         Well, compliments, the Jackal is seeing the light also, what is going on. It was in humble ways started under Labour, the last term under Helen, and I suppose the intentions were good, but they hired the bloody wrong man to lead it all, one damned extreme, bizarre and irrational Dr David Bratt.

         Yeah, thanks for seeing the light, Jackal, we are facing an onslaught, and as I am one suffering of serious health issues that they are also focusing on, it is to me a declaration of war. I already was years ago harassed and denied time and security to focus on needed treatment, leading to irreversible damage, now they simply ignore all warnings and want to push others through the same. The true agenda is COST SAVING, none else.

         Wake up to the damned music and the truth, that is what it is all about, not about support and assistance. They may as well agree the Nazis “assisted” those struggling to get social acceptance to (forced) labour, that in the end “set them free”, yeah right!
         • Populuxe1 4.3.2.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 4:47 am

           Given that the Naz1s were more about euthanising people with disabilities, I am not sure you want to be giving them ideas.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.4

     30 June 2013 at 12:50 pm

     Just part of their plan to give our wealth to the rich few.
   • Rogue Trooper 4.5

     30 June 2013 at 1:31 pm

     Exactly how I imagined that this agenda would play out; still, only a 1000 clients (guinea pigs per year). Target is only half of selected clients have to remain in employment; money for jams (just a mental-health statistic).
     Sabotage
     “I’m looking through a Hole in The Sky
     I’m seeing nowhere through the eyes of a lie

     I’ve watched the dogs of war enjoying the feast
     I’ve seen the western world go down in the east.
     The food of love become the greed of our time
     But now we’re living on the profits of crime.”
   • Murray Olsen 4.6

     30 June 2013 at 4:15 pm

     This is just more troughfare for the scum who will set up the private services. It’s sick, sick stuff and probably violates any number of UN conventions we’ve signed up to. Do they want sick people to kill themselves? Silly question, of course. Sick sadists like WhaleSpew are loved by them.
5. North 5

   30 June 2013 at 8:16 am

   Here, from Britain, the Artist Taxi Driver’s take on the Ceaucescu Club.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXlKqPEBcI
6. North 6

   30 June 2013 at 8:42 am

   Morrissey…….you gotta give it to Schmooz Obama. He’s good…….

   In Pretoria, Nelson Mandela a “beacon” says The Big O. “My personal hero” says he.

   Chur Bro’. Mine too.

   Oh hang on……..The Schmooz a few months back…….Maggot Thatcher a beacon for freedom and light.

   What ??? The fetid sociopath Thatcher who denounced Nelson Mandela as a terrorist ?

   Faaarrk ! How does he do it ?
   • Populuxe1 6.1

     30 June 2013 at 5:55 pm

     Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover
     • Pascal's bookie 6.1.1

       30 June 2013 at 6:09 pm

       That’s a weird thing to say.

       What’s it got to do with S.A for starters?

       And you make it sound like Hong Kong had a functioning democracy for decades under the British or something. Rather than giving them a wee taste, (but not too much), a few years before the handover.

       But if you think that Thatcher’s efforts, such as they were, in Hong Kong trump her attitudes towards S.A., or South America, or the the fall of the Berlin wall even, then good for you I guess.
       • Populuxe1 6.1.1.1

         1 July 2013 at 5:01 am

         It was an observation on what may have justified such a statement on Obama’s part – nothing more than that. Unbunch your panties, you’ll live longer. And as for Hong Kong’s wee taste, it certainly seems to have been enough of a taste for Snowden.
         • Pascal's bookie 6.1.1.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 5:23 am

           Except you didn’t mention Obama at all. Speak for him do you?

           Your comment seemed to be expressing your opinion, not some opinion Obama might have.

           When asked to justify it, you move on to the attack, and claim that you were just imagining what Obama might reckon. What an arse you are.

           And I thought it was your position that Snowden went to Hong Kong because treason or some such mind reading bullshit.

           But of course, you can’t defend your claim that Thatcher ‘kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover’ so you try and introduce some other bullshit as a distraction.
           • Populuxe1 6.1.1.1.1.1

             1 July 2013 at 5:36 am

             “Except you didn’t mention Obama at all. Speak for him do you?”

             I would have thought that was perfectly self fucking evident to anyone capable of following a thread that it was in reference to North. Of course now that I know you have below average adult reading comprehension, in future I will spoon feed you.

             “Your comment seemed to be expressing your opinion, not some opinion Obama might have.”

             North was presumably speaking in reference to Obama’s statement: “She knew that with strength and resolve we could win the Cold War and extend freedom’s promise.”
             http://uk.news.yahoo.com/obama-thatcher-america-lost-true-friend-150124594.html#0514ggU
             I was offering another example

             “When asked to justify it, you move on to the attack, and claim that you were just imagining what Obama might reckon. What an arse you are.”

             Scroll down the thread, my justification is there. If I’m an arse then you are illustrating perfectly a certain proverb involving a pot and a kettle that is probably racially insensitive in this context.

             “And I thought it was your position that Snowden went to Hong Kong because treason or some such mind reading bullshit.”

             It’s called sarcasm

             “But of course, you can’t defend your claim that Thatcher ‘kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover’ so you try and introduce some other bullshit as a distraction.”

             Ah, but I can, if you bother to scroll down the thread.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               1 July 2013 at 5:46 am

               It’s not self evident at all Pop, hence the need for all this explanation, which seems to make you rather angry. For some reason.

               People were talking about South Aftrica, and Thatcher’s thoughts about that in the 80’s. You piped in saying that

               “Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover”

               It isn’t self-evident what that means at all. It’s just another of your typically snide attacks.

               I took it mean that you think Thatcher was a hero for democracy and liberty because whatever it is you think she did re Hong Kong trumps what she thought and did elsewhere around the world.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 1 July 2013 at 6:11 am

                 “It’s not self evident at all Pop, hence the need for all this explanation, which seems to make you rather angry. For some reason.”

                 Not self evident to you, and there was nothing aggressive in the first comment – does it occur to you that your endless focussed and rather pointless attacks are likely to provoke such a response? Or are you a sociopath?

                 “People were talking about South Aftrica, and Thatcher’s thoughts about that in the 80′s. You piped in saying that

                 “Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover”

                 It isn’t self-evident what that means at all. It’s just another of your typically snide attacks.”

                 Ok, I did promise I would spoon feed you so here goes –
                 North: “Oh hang on……..The Schmooz a few months back…….Maggot Thatcher a beacon for freedom and light.”

                 Now I trust that you do realise that this is the internet and I am perfectly at liberty to comment on whatever part of someone’s statement I choose – I really didn’t expect you to fly in on your broomstick of righteous indignation and deraill the thread entirely.

                 “I took it mean that you think Thatcher was a hero for democracy and liberty because whatever it is you think she did re Hong Kong trumps what she thought and did elsewhere around the world.”

                 Which I did not say – I provided a possible justification for the statemen and passed no more judgment upon it than that, however like all historical personages Thatcher’s career isn’t all black and white, and it is quite possible to interpret some of her acts in a more positive light. Especially as some of you have an unusually specific form of amnesia when it comes to anything involving the Cold War, the PRC or Central and South America.
                 • Pascal's bookie …

                   1 July 2013 at 6:45 am

                   I took it that you disagreeing with North. that you were saying that Thtacher was a beacon for freedom and light because of her actions in Hong Kong.

                   For that to be the case, it would have to outweigh her actions and beliefs in other areas. as you say, it isn[t all black and white, People have to make judgements based on the totality. But at the end of the day a judgement can still be made.

                   Yuo dragged in HK as if to say that it was a thing that people had to ignore in order to reach the conclusion she was not a beacon for freedom and light.

                   And passive aggression, is still aggression.

                   If you don;t want people to respond badly to you try not to write things like :

                   “Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover”

                   That’s apassive aggression is spades. Just because people don;t mention Thatcher’s HK record, (such as it is) doesn’t mean they haven’t factored it in to their judgement, If you think it balances out everything else she did, make that argument.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               1 July 2013 at 5:54 am

               And on the ‘sarcasm’ thing.

               Are you saying that Hong Kong doesn’t have much in the way of democracy then? What is your point exactly?

               You always resort to sarcasm and ad hom attacks (see above, or pretty much any other discussion we’ve had) in place of actually explaining yourself.

               It’s quite revealing.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 1 July 2013 at 6:12 am

                 You don’t discuss, you badger, and then shriek with glee should I make an error – that sort of behaviour is guaranteed to piss me off and get the response you described.
                 • Pascal's bookie …

                   1 July 2013 at 6:28 am

                   I usually just ask for clarification of what you mean.

                   You usually respond in the way people can see in this thread. With sarcasm and abuse.
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     1 July 2013 at 6:44 am

                     Get. a. hobby.
             • felix …

               1 July 2013 at 9:01 am

               “North was presumably speaking in reference to Obama’s statement: “She knew that with strength and resolve we could win the Cold War and extend freedom’s promise.” [link to article]”

               What’s that old saying about presumption? Making a cunt of yourself and no-one else or some such.

               You don’t suppose it’s more likely North was referring to this quote from Obama, do you?

               “With the passing of Baroness Margaret Thatcher, the world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty”

               … which contains a phrase very close to what North attributed to him, unlike the one you picked, from further down the same article, which bears no relation at all.
     • karol 6.1.2

       30 June 2013 at 6:32 pm

       Stuff I’ve read indicate Thatcher’s heart wasn’t as much in the Hong Kong negotiations as they were in war mongering over the Falklands. And many think she c=got done over by the Chinese leaders.

       How Mrs Thatcher lost Hong Kong

       Graceless and reluctant Thatcher stumbling her way through Hong Kong negotiations.
       • Populuxe1 6.1.2.1

         1 July 2013 at 4:59 am

         Which would be to ignore the sterling efforts of the last governor of Hong Kong, Chris Patten, as Thatcher’s representative, in securing those vital agreements with Beijing, backed by Thatcher’s hard-nosed reputation, relationship with the US, and four state visits to China at the highest levels – it didn’t appear half-hearted to me. The reality was the British were always going to lose Hong Kong because, quelle surprise, the lease was up.

         Also, what you call “war mongering” was the legitimate defense of British citizens against an illegal and unprevoked invasion.

         Yes, much of what she did in the UK was horrific, but at least try to retain some objectivity.
         • Pascal's bookie 6.1.2.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 5:26 am

           Patten was appointed in 92. Thatcher left office in 90.

           Thatcher’s meetings with China were to try and renegotiate the lease, and she wanted to not give up various areas.

           Her agreement around one countryu two systems was about Hong Kong retaining capitalism, not democracy, which HK had none of under Thatcher.
           • Populuxe1 6.1.2.1.1.1

             1 July 2013 at 5:56 am

             Thatcher’s successor was John Major, annointed by her and something of a puppet for her – or at least was expected to be so. He might as well have not even been there, but I suppose I shouldn’t have elided them.
             http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/major-has-every-right-to-shop-lady-thatcher-1112948.html

             There are multiple reasons why Thatcher wanted to renegotiate the lease – they are not mutually exclusive.

             Hong Kong’s constitution was approved in 1990, but well before that, following the historic meeting in 1979 between Deng Xiaoping and then governor Murray MacLehose, a Green paper on development of representative government was issued by the colonial government in July 1984. It included proposals aimed at developing a system of more localised government, which included the introduction of indirect elections to the Legco the following year. The government proposed 12 legislators elected by nine trade-based seats, or ‘functional bodies’ – commercial, industrial, financial, labour, social services, education, legal, medical and engineering – the following year. Martin Lee and Szeto Wah were among those elected in 1985. Considerably more democratic that the PRC, no? There is a reason why Hong Kong wanted autonomy from the PRC, yes?
             • Pascal's bookie …

               1 July 2013 at 6:05 am

               Yes, but it’s along way away from :

               “Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover”

               which implies that Hong Kong had a tradition of democracy under the UK to protect.

               Also worth noting that the 90’s reform process didn’t go anywhere near as far as local democratic activists would have liked. Patten wasn’t as gung-ho at the time as later articles paint it. The indicative referenda around whther or not people wanted democractic representation, were controversial in how they were treated, to say the least.

               And this:

               Thatcher’s successor was John Major, annointed by her and something of a puppet for her – or at least was expected to be so. He might as well have not even been there, but I suppose I shouldn’t have elided them.
               

               Jesus wept man. Show some pride.
               • Populuxe1 …

                 1 July 2013 at 6:14 am

                 Or had a democratic tradition compared to the PRC, which had begun to evolve and grow from 1984 onwards.
                 • Pascal's bookie …

                   1 July 2013 at 6:26 am

                   “kept Hong Kong democratic”
                   • Populuxe1 …

                     1 July 2013 at 6:42 am

                     God, even I’m bored now. I would have thought that it was patently obvious to most people that there are degrees of democracy and that Hong Kong is more democratic than PRC, or are you just going to go on and on like a broken record because you don’t have anything better in your life to be getting on with?
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     1 July 2013 at 6:51 am

                     laugh.
     • Morrissey 6.1.3

       30 June 2013 at 7:24 pm

       Our good friend Populuxe1, has for the last few days been notable by his absence. Fans of the truly crazed will, like me, have been jonesing for more of our friend’s dependably daft yet always amusing ouput; the wait has just been killing this writer, i.e. moi.

       And now, this gem suddenly appears under our friend’s aegis…..

       …it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover…

       That’s Margaret Thatcher, not Tom Sawyer’s girlfriend Becky, that he’s holding up as a champion of democracy there! Yes, that’s right—MARGARET THATCHER, the friend and mentor and protector and advocate of (to name just a few off the top of my head) Pinochet, Saddam, Suharto, Reagan, Begin, Peres, Pol Pot and Osama Bin Laden himself! This monster of hypocrisy, this darling of dictators, this mortal enemy of protestors, unionists and human rights activists all over the world has been reborn in the fertile brain of Populuxe1 as another Nelson Mandela or Aung San Suu Kyi or Hugo Chávez.

       Here it is again, fellas, in all it’s glory…

       * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
       …it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic…

       * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

       Gotta say that, even for Populuxe1, this is one for the ages. It was worth the wait!
       • Populuxe1 6.1.3.1

         1 July 2013 at 5:11 am

         What is it with you pathetic people that you must leap on a simple, objective statement, and twist and pervert it into something else? I never said Thatcher wasn’t a nasty piece of work who brought untold suffering to the people of Britain, I said that she was quite significant in events in Hong Kong in 1997 and after regarding Hong Kong’s relative independance from the PRC. Possibly the fact that the two things aren’t neccisarily mutually exclusive is too much for your stunted intellect and Owen Glenn levels of self regard, but it is by no means a particularly fringe view. Specifically I refer you to Thatcher’s first September 1982 visit to meet with Deng Xiaoping on the matter. Throughout their meeting, she sought the PRC’s agreement to a continued British presence in the territory. Deng stated clearly the PRC’s sovereignty on Hong Kong was non-negotiable, but he was willing to settle the sovereignty issue with Britain through formal negotiations, and both governments promised to maintain Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity. You should read Michael B. Yahuda’s Hong Kong: China’s Challenge. (London: Routledge, 1996) – even you should be able to follow it.
         • Pascal's bookie 6.1.3.1.1

           1 July 2013 at 5:30 am

           “Some people really can’t handle the fact that it was largely Thatcher’s political will that kept Hong Kong democratic even after the handover”

           Maybe you should phrrase your ‘simple objective statements ‘in ways that aren’t so arrogantly aggressive? Maybe try, simple and objective as guidlines?
           • Populuxe1 6.1.3.1.1.1

             1 July 2013 at 6:00 am

             You have a nerve to accuse me of being “arrogantly aggressive”, which is a subjective interpretation more honoured in spirit than in the breach around here. Spare me your sanctimonious hypocrisy. If you disagree with me then disagree, don’t latch on like a dog with a bone with your ad hominems and your oxygen-wasting attacks on the fripperies of style.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               1 July 2013 at 7:04 am

               Not really.

               I don’t think I’ve seen you add much here at all beyond arrogant snide bullshit personal attacks on people.

               I, on the other hand, regularly season my arrogant takedowns of folk like you with stimulating links to pieces of general interest. Also and too, jokes.
               • Murray Olsen …

                 1 July 2013 at 8:00 pm

                 Impossible to argue with that view, Pb.
7. chris73 7

   30 June 2013 at 10:35 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10893846

   I can understand the family grieving but when the police tell you to stop and when you then shoot at the police theres only going to be one likely outcome

   I feel for the cop whos going to have to carry the burden of taking someones life
   • Te Reo Putake 7.1

     30 June 2013 at 10:49 am

     “I feel for the cop whos going to have to carry the burden of taking someones life”

     Well, at least he didn’t have to look him in the eye before executing him.
     • chris73 7.1.1

       30 June 2013 at 11:00 am

       Seriously? Its dark, the crim was told to surrender, the crim shot at the cop, the cop fired back and you call it an execution…
       • Morrissey 7.1.1.1

         30 June 2013 at 11:20 am

         Seriously? Its dark, the crim was told to surrender, the crim shot at the cop, the cop fired back and you call it an execution…

         I think he was serious. Unlike you, you complacent fool.
         • chris73 7.1.1.1.1

           30 June 2013 at 11:35 am

           I realise that the left have a problem with accepting the consequences of ones actions but I’ll make it real simple for you.

           The crim chose to carry a firearm, the crim chose to break into the golf club, the crim chose to ignore the polices warnings and the crim chose to shoot at the police

           The policeman gave the crim fair warning, chose to use the taser and fired after the crim fired first, the blame for this is squarely on the crim and he paid the for his actions

           Unfortunately the cop is the one thats going to suffer the consequences
           • Te Reo Putake 7.1.1.1.1.1

             30 June 2013 at 11:37 am

             Yep, I’m certainly hoping the cop suffers the consequences, but the history of previous killer cops in Taranaki and elsewhere suggests otherwise. Two shots in the back. What a hero.
             • chris73 …

               30 June 2013 at 11:49 am

               Its dark so we don’t know how well the cop could see the crim, whether the crim was reloading etc etc

               What we do know is that the cop fired in self-defence (you know after the crim fired at him) also if the crim hadn’t been committing a crime, hadn’t had a firearm, had stopped when the cops told him to or not fired at the police he’d be alive today

               But no call the cop carrying out his duty a killer…nice one
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 30 June 2013 at 11:55 am

                 I have no problem with the police acting in self defence, or in the defence of others. Two shots in the back suggests that is not the case here.
                 • chris73 …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:02 pm

                   “Two shots in the back suggests that is not the case here.”
                   – Why?

                   We know the crim fired at the police and:

                   The crim could have still been armed
                   The crim could have been reloading
                   The crim could have surrendered

                   instead the crim chose to shoot at the police and the police fired back
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:26 pm

                     According to the article you linked to he had already been tasered and was on his knees.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:31 pm

                     No, according to the article a friend said he was on his knees.

                     And according to the article, someone close to the police said he’d already been tasered and that the taser wasn’t working – implication is that despite being tasered, he was still a threat.

                     We don’t know if either of those things are true. The article is one long speculation, as is most of this discussion.

                     btw, just because someone with a shotgun is on their knees, it doesn’t mean they’re not capable of shooting someone else. It may be just as you say felix, but that you can’t consider another explanation is irrational.
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:45 pm

                     “implication is that despite being tasered, he was still a threat.”

                     That’s not an implication, weka, it’s an inference on your part. And it’s an inference which relies heavily on a couple of dubious assumptions about the NZ Police.

                     The key word is “after”.

                     You can give these “close to police sources” (lolz) all the benefit of the doubt you like, but I’ve read enough of these reports to know better.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:54 pm

                     you mean this ‘after’?

                     Police say Adam Te Rata Charles Morehu, 33, was first Tasered, then shot twice in the torso with a police-issue Glock handgun after he acted aggressively towards the officers, twice threatening to kill them and firing a shot from a rifle.

                     For what it is worth, I would tend to believe the family’s sources over the vague police ones, but my point was really that the article was full of hearsay and speculation so why debate as if it were fact?

                     “You can give these “close to police sources” (lolz) all the benefit of the doubt you like, but I’ve read enough of these reports to know better.”

                     Ok, so you have a preformed judgement irrespective of the facts. Just don’t pretend you are any better than chris (apart from the politics of course).
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 11:35 pm

                     “Ok, so you have a preformed judgement irrespective of the facts.”

                     Bullshit weka. I’m just not going to play your silly game of pretending we have to look at this event in total isolation, devoid of any context, history, or long-established patterns of behaviour.

                     I’m not under any obligation to give equal weight to every statement, every opinion, every piece of information I encounter. That’s not having a preformed judgement, it’s having a functioning mind.

                     “Just don’t pretend you are any better than chris (apart from the politics of course).”

                     Nonsense, I’m considerably better than chris in every conceivable way.
                 • weka …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:08 pm

                   Right, so the policeman should have waited until the man turned around and then shot him in the front, even though that puts the policeman’s life at risk?

                   Given we have no idea what happened, I do tend to agree that someone who shoots at the police can expect the possibility of being shot and killed. It’s not right or good, but it’s reasonable.

                   “What a hero.”

                   Why should the police be expected to be heroes?
                   • chris73 …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:23 pm

                     “Right, so the policeman should have waited until the man turned around and then shot him in the front, even though that puts the policeman’s life at risk?”

                     – Yes thats what should have happened because this situation is just like a hollywood movie where the cop would have then shot him in the hand to make him drop his weapon , at least thats what some of the posters on here are thinking
               • BM …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:03 pm

                 You have to laugh at these sad old Che Guevara wannabes trying to act all bad ass and revolutionary.
                 At their age, It’s just sad and pathetic.
                 • felix …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:15 pm

                   That’s no way to talk about the NZ Police. Two shots in the back for you.
               • felix …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:14 pm

                 chris, not only are you a nasty piece of work, you’re also naive as all fuck.

                 The guy was on his knees, being tasered, and was shot twice in the back.

                 That’s an execution. And yeah you’re right, they likely executed him because he fired at them first. They do tend to take that personally. It’s an unwritten code that no-one shoots at the NZ Police and lives.

                 But drop the bullshit about “self defence” and “duty”. It’s revenge, plain and simple.
                 • chris73 …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:20 pm

                   “chris, not only are you a nasty piece of work, you’re also naive as all fuck.”
                   – and you are as played as easily as a puppet on a string

                   “The guy was on his knees, being tasered, and was shot twice in the back”
                   – Lets have some evidence on that please
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:21 pm

                     “Lets have some evidence on that please”

                     You linked to the article, dick.

                     “played as easily as a puppet on a string”

                     Says the guy who believes everything the police say because they always tell the truth.
                 • weka …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:24 pm

                   “The guy was on his knees, being tasered, and was shot twice in the back.”

                   With all due respect, none of us know what exactly happened. The crucial bit is whether the police were in danger. We can’t tell that from the report. Maybe they weren’t and the shooting was completely illegitimate. Or maybe not.

                   Morehu and Kevin Bishell were reportedly trying to flee the burglary on Morehu’s motorbike…

                   Police say Adam Te Rata Charles Morehu, 33, was first Tasered, then shot twice in the torso with a police-issue Glock handgun after he acted aggressively towards the officers, twice threatening to kill them and firing a shot from a rifle.

                   But they have refused to confirm to the Herald on Sunday that he was shot in the back, saying only that the officer believed he heard Morehu reloading his rifle in the darkness….

                   Another source, close to police, said: “The Taser wasn’t working properly. It just made him angry and he said he was going to shoot the police. He had already fired a shot.

                   “An officer tried to move around to flank him and it is quite possible that he was shot in the back.”…

                   A friend claimed Morehu was on his knees at the time…

                   “If individuals decide to make comments it does not change the fact that it is inappropriate for police to discuss details publicly until the investigation is complete and the findings have been tested by peer legal review, the Independent Police Complaints Authority and the coroner.”

                   It is understood that police have been candid with the family about the circumstances of Morehu’s death, though their account changed as more facts have emerged.

                   Diane Richardson said he was Tasered as many as four times, before and after he was shot, before a blow to the head with a police torch. The blow left a head wound visible to mourners at his tangi….

                   “It is important to us as a whanau that we, our friends and the community of Waitara, receive, listen and absorb these facts in understanding this tragedy,” said whanau spokesman John Niwa.

                   “Our conclusions and what we do about it are a long way off.”
                   
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:29 pm

                     “With all due respect, none of us know what exactly happened.”

                     chris is quoting one version of events as fact so I thought I’d quote another.

                     Both versions are from the article he linked to, so he can’t have a problem with me doing that.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:33 pm

                     Ok, so you’re not interested in the reality of someone who just got shot, or their family, or the police involved, you just want to score points in a useless debate. Good to know, thanks for clarifying.
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:36 pm

                     Sorry, I didn’t realise that the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry was such a useless debate.

                     I’ll let you get back to your useless posturing now.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:48 pm

                     Well felix, by your own words you just said that you are arguing with chris because he’s making out the Herald is gospel so you will too. How useful is that in the debate? You can’t have it both ways – either you are taunting chris for stating hearsay as fact, or you yourself believe that treating hearsay as fact is valid. Can’t do both (or you can and thus be a hypocrite).

                     Maybe there is some clever tactic here that is too subtle for me (which means it’s way to subtle for chris), but all I can see is that you are having a go at chris because you think him and his politics are a tosser. Or, which is what I first thought, you assume the police are evil and therefore chris is an arse for what he said.

                     “Sorry, I didn’t realise that the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry was such a useless debate.”

                     It’s an important debate. I’m just not sure how you think you are contributing to it.

                     Also important is how the media report stories. I don’t think the Herald did a very good job on this one.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     30 June 2013 at 1:22 pm

                     All this discussion proves is that police need to have cameras on them at all times as part of their uniform. Ones that they can’t manipulate and, if possible, stream live to several backup servers. With today’s technology it’s easily done.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 3:27 pm

                     good idea. apart from the civil rights issues.
                   • Arfamo …

                     30 June 2013 at 3:43 pm

                     I dunno. One good reason not to do a burglary with a loaded gun is you might end up getting shot dead by someone else with a loaded gun. This seems to be what happened. The best start of any argument about what shouldn’t have happened is probably the decision to do a burglary.
                   • felix …

                     30 June 2013 at 11:20 pm

                     “all I can see is that you are having a go at chris because you think him and his politics are a tosser.”

                     I’m sorry that’s all you can see, weka. Your problem though.
                 • Murray Olsen …

                   30 June 2013 at 4:37 pm

                   The existence of such an unwritten code certainly fits in with my experience and prejudices. Revenge, and even the spreading of fear, seem to play a huge part in the motivations of many police officers. We’ll never really know what happened, except for those who slavishly believe everything the boys in blue say, and those who self righteously portray every act as police brutality, barbarism, and murder. We need some method of holding them accountable. With the power to take life legally must come an extremely high level of accountability. What we have now is a joke.
                   • weka …

                     30 June 2013 at 5:34 pm

                     +1
             • Morrissey …

               30 June 2013 at 11:57 am

               Two shots in the back. What a hero.

               If this cowardly shooting lands him in court, Dirty Harry from Taranaki will no doubt get a glowing character testimonial from Deputy Police Commissioner Mike Bush…..

               Open mike 18/06/2013
               • chris73 …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:03 pm

                 You must have inside information on this case, care to share it with the rest of us?
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:09 pm

                 Yep!
           • Morrissey 7.1.1.1.1.2

             30 June 2013 at 11:53 am

             I realise that the left have a problem…

             You realise nothing, you fool. You read nothing, and know nothing.

             Is your name….Leighton Smith?
             • chris73 …

               30 June 2013 at 12:06 pm

               Ok so educate me on what happened oh wise and all-knowing purveyor of truth and enlightenment

               Let me guess, you think Bains innocent and deserves compenation?
               • Morrissey …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:17 pm

                 Let me guess, you think Bains innocent and deserves compensation?

                 No, fool, I do not. You are simply incapable of construing intelligently from what I have written in the past. Nothing I have ever written would suggest I support Bain.
                 • chris73 …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:27 pm

                   You are simply incapable of construing intelligently from what I have written in the past

                   – Ever consider that, maybe, what you write is particularly intelligent?

                   Nothing I have ever written would suggest I support Bain.

                   – My bad, its just that I don’t follow what you write (see above)
               • fender …

                 30 June 2013 at 12:19 pm

                 Your sick Judith Collins fantasy has clouded your thinking soldier.
                 • chris73 …

                   30 June 2013 at 12:29 pm

                   My fantasies towards Judith Collins aside, tell me how my thinking (on this matter as we don’t have all day) is clouded
                   • fender …

                     30 June 2013 at 12:46 pm

                     You said: “Let me guess, you think Bains innocent and deserves compensation?”

                     I’m suggesting your Collins fetish determines your stance, and it’s sick.
           • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1.3

             30 June 2013 at 1:40 pm

             The policeman gave the crim fair warning…

             The real problem is that the police have a strange notion of “Reasonable force” and because of that and the fact that they keep getting away with obvious crimes of violence means that no-one trusts them. I certainly don’t.
             • chris73 …

               30 June 2013 at 10:01 pm

               I certainly trust them more than the family of the career crim
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 1 July 2013 at 12:40 am

                 I don’t.
8. Sosoo 8

   30 June 2013 at 11:03 am

   So the Rolling Stones are headlining Glastonbury… over 35 years since they last released a half decent record.

   This is like having Bing Crosby headline Woodstock.
   • logie97 8.1

     30 June 2013 at 12:40 pm

     … Yeah but bet you wish we had a festival like Glastonbury here though don’t you – with or without the Stones. What’s your problem? It’s a bummer having to go midweek to see the occasional stars (still crowd pullers) in New Zealand. Most of them only come as far as Australia.
   • Te Reo Putake 8.2

     30 June 2013 at 7:31 pm

     Nailed it, apparently. And with a guest appearence from Mick Taylor. Nice.

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jun/30/rolling-stones-glastonbury-debut

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23111268
     • felix 8.2.1

       1 July 2013 at 8:47 am

       Nailed it, eh? Well done those lads, keep at it and they could really go places 😉
9. Morrissey 9

   30 June 2013 at 11:42 am

   Rabuka on National Radio
   National Radio, Sunday 30 June 2013

   Listening right now (11:34 a.m.) to Chris Laidlaw interviewing that reptile Sitiveni Rabuka. It’s unusual to hear Chris so clearly hostile to an interviewee; he obviously despises Rabuka.

   It reminded me of the famous occasion in 2006 when Eva Radich pursued another politician who hated democracy: Tony Blair.

   Rabuka is incapable of giving a straight or honest answer; he’s a South Seas version of Tony Blair.
   • Murray Olsen 9.1

     30 June 2013 at 4:48 pm

     I think Rabuka is more honest, civilised, and democratic than Tony Blair. For a start, Rabuka was a soldier, not someone pretending to be a democratic “socialist saviour”. One more point is that he is an indigenous Fijian, and was fighting for some distorted view of indigenous rights. To equal Blair here, he would have had to be an Indian unionist pro-democracy campaigner and still do the things he did.

     Blair lowered standards and defined slipperiness to a level not beaten until Obama turned up, and if British military and economic power hadn’t decayed so much, Obama would probably only equal him.
     • Morrissey 9.1.1

       30 June 2013 at 8:27 pm

       I think Rabuka is more honest, civilised, and democratic than Tony Blair.

       That is damning Rabuka with faint praise, as I’m sure you are aware, Murray. Yes, Blair has a body count that puts Rabuka, Speight and Bainimarama to shame, and he is despicable, but that doesn’t make those Fijian thugs any more acceptable, I am afraid.
       • Murray Olsen 9.1.1.1

         30 June 2013 at 9:52 pm

         Oh, I found Rabuka totally unacceptable at the time and nothing has happened to change my mind. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. It’s just that I reserve a special level of hell for treacherous dogs like Blair, Douglas, Prebble, and Obama.
10. Te Reo Putake 10

    30 June 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Don’t know if business goobermensch ‘yes’ is around today, but he won’t like this:

    http://union-news.co.uk/2013/06/union-wins-landmark-case-after-company-refuses-to-allow-worker-to-be-represented-at-disciplinary/
11. Morrissey 11

    30 June 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Humbug Corner
    
No. 8: “SIR” OWEN GLENN

    Millionaire businessshit Sir Owen Glenn’s inquiry into domestic violence and child abuse is under further pressure with revelations he was accused of physically abusing a young woman in Hawaii in 2002.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/sir-owen-glenn-defends-decision-not-reveal-abuse-claim-5481044

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More egregious humbug….
    No. 7 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”
    No. 6 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
    No. 5 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
    No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
    
No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”

    No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”


    Open mike 09/06/2013

    
    
No.1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”
    
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02062013/#comment-642288
    • muzza 11.1

      30 June 2013 at 2:34 pm

      Mozza, Owen Glenn has a past which is *underwraps*, a key component of the *Sir* title, is part of the *underwraps*.

      The article you link to, is a very brief insight to him, and the forces, which control him. His history is *known*, and at a time, and with a purpose, it is used against him, or the investigation, to be more precise, wonder what the significance of the timing is…

      The calling card of the puppet masters, is to take down the target, using something which is supposed to represent a positive aspect of the individual.

      Note:

      – Glenn *instigates/sponsors* an inquirey into abuse.

      – Glenn has a past, which is used against him, by way of *abuse charges*

      See how its done, its an occurance, which is as frequent, as it is transparent!

      There are powers, which do not want this investigation to serve a positive function that much was always apparant. Its why Owen Glenn was given the go ahead to sponsor it, because they already knew he could be discredited, anytime!
12. Colonial Viper 12

    30 June 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Glen Greenwald – Presentation At Hampshire College

    Massively important presentation by Glen Greenwald. This will change the way you look at what is happening both internationally and locally.
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      30 June 2013 at 2:08 pm

      PS this is a different presentation to the one I linked to last night.
      • Rogue Trooper 12.1.1

        30 June 2013 at 2:14 pm

        do you think some of us have all day to sit around in front of a monitor? hmm? hmm? 😉
        (although, it is fortuitous to have secured a three-day a week position with all the tools at one’s disposal) Nudge nudge, wink wink. 😉
        • fender 12.1.1.1

          30 June 2013 at 4:26 pm

          Just plug it into the stereo and listen, as I did while doing some chores. Was an excellent presentation, thanks for the link CV.
          • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1

            30 June 2013 at 5:43 pm

            Always welcome. The more we learn, the more powerful we are. That’s why they prefer to keep the masses dumb and distracted.
            • Jim Nald 12.1.1.1.1.1

              30 June 2013 at 8:39 pm

              Running a cable from the laptop to the amplifier and then streaming video/audio files while cooking or doing chores is a good way to get educated with these pieces 🙂
              • lprent …

                30 June 2013 at 11:10 pm

                Look at dlna/upnp. I use minidlna on my Linux server and pick it up on the bluray attached to the tv (used to use an amp – but it had no visual listings), my tablet usually with headphones on, my phone, and amarok on my workstation. I can also pick it up at work via ssh.

                Skifta on the nexus7 kind of acts as the universal remote. Select something off the server like a playlist or a movie, and then tell it what to play out off.

                I have a pile of laminated plastic in the cupboard gathering dust. Kind of a waste of time transcribing from those DVDs and peanut sized CDs when they arrive.
                • felix …

                  1 July 2013 at 8:49 am

                  Think I’ll just plug the lappy into an amp, thanks.
13. chris73 13

    30 June 2013 at 12:49 pm

    You said: “Let me guess, you think Bains innocent and deserves compensation?”

    I’m suggesting your Collins fetish determines your stance, and it’s sick.

    – I thought Bain was guilty long before Judith Collins came on the scene, its just coincidence we both appear to have the same views
    • fender 13.1

      30 June 2013 at 1:01 pm

      To continue the thread you just click on the lowest reply button.

      Yes as you say it’s just coincidental your views always align with those of the authoritarian Collins, the same Collins you want to have perform dominatrix acts on you.
      • chris73 13.1.1

        30 June 2013 at 1:04 pm

        the same Collins you want to have perform dominatrix acts on you.

        – that made me chuckle
        • fender 13.1.1.1

          30 June 2013 at 1:30 pm

          The day you said you wanted Collins to whip you made me chuckle too, but that was quickly followed by an urge to chuck-up!
          • chris73 13.1.1.1.1

            30 June 2013 at 1:35 pm

            I may not have been speaking figuratively…
            • fender 13.1.1.1.1.1

              30 June 2013 at 1:46 pm

              With your wife looking over your shoulder that’s probably the best response.

              Personally I have no respect for Collins as either a lawyer, politician or sex-symbol. But I’m sure Adolf would have welcomed her onto his side.
              • Rogue Trooper …

                30 June 2013 at 2:24 pm

                wottabout all those DueDiff ‘concerns’ (34) that the Collinic one sent to Robert Fisher, QC?
            • Murray Olsen 13.1.1.1.1.2

              1 July 2013 at 8:03 pm

              I for one assumed that you weren’t speaking figuratively. Thanks for confirming it.
14. Tim 14

    30 June 2013 at 1:22 pm

    And now for the “Big Con” (another one).
    Wellington Electricity is trying to butter up ‘consumers’ for the possibility of a power price increase – because of damage caused by recent storms.
    They apparently spent up to $5m fixing problems.
    They really must be running their operation on a shoestring if $5m damage can cause such devastation to their ‘bottom line’ that they think they now have to go ‘groveling’ (NOT) to what will probably be compliant authorities.

    No no no.
    Admitedly WE, since its acquisition has invested in lamp post replacement, and various other improvements to improve the reliability of “THEIR” network.
    That’s only because it had been left to run down since privatisation because of deferred maintenance and quick-fix mickey mouse solutions by previous owners.
    What that tells us is that they’ve either not adequately considered their risks (they need to find another shaista ‘risk management’ consultant maybe), OR they paid too much for a dog in the first place, and now they want consumers to pay for it so they can keep getting their ‘adequate return on investment’.

    Now …. if they increased my line charge 1 cent per day ….. you do the maths, BUT given the number of households and businesses in their jurisdiction, $5m could be recovered within a very short time – at which time there could/should be a line charge DEcrease. Does anyone seriously think that is going to happen?

    .. I could go on, but these buggers try it on at any opportunity! (sad thing is that they often get away with it)

    Now I think about it … they could probably clip a CEO and underlings salary and benefits a little, and come up with about 10% of that $5m. Justify it because of obvious poor performance – they cudda shudda wudda taken account of the potential for severe damage – just as old Power Boards and MEDs used to do
    • Rogue Trooper 14.1

      30 June 2013 at 1:43 pm

      The location and topography of Wellington is going to be increasingly problematic in these disruptive times. ( a quote from a geographical scientist informing RNZ listeners following the recent storm).
15. Draco T Bastard 15

    30 June 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Torchwood

    When the state rolls up to reduce real access to state allowances for those parenting, or introduce new measures to allow employers to pay less than a living wage for parents, or sells off state assets meaning essential services like power cost more, what we are really doing is treating some children as less important than other children.

    It’s got a prettier face than Torchwood. But the psychological process is the same, make no mistake. Distance. Othering. Outright denial. Killing off empathy.
    • Rogue Trooper 15.1

      30 June 2013 at 2:19 pm

      How many blogs you follow in flight Draco? Have your own ‘looking glass’?
      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        30 June 2013 at 2:53 pm

        More often than not these days I pick up interesting reading from the Twitter feed.
        • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.1

          30 June 2013 at 3:13 pm

          do you think / find that the feeds duplicate the International news sites / International journals such as IBT, Bloomberg etc? Feck, considering the data channeling / siphoning from mobile devices (as below) , think I’ll buy a flat-screen to watch films before I’d buy a cell-phone.
          • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.1.1

            1 July 2013 at 12:48 am

            The “twitter feed” is just what the people I follow consider interesting. This includes news items, pictures of babies/cats and random thoughts that don’t really connect with anything.
16. Poission 16

    30 June 2013 at 2:48 pm

    The Germans are not happy,

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/nsa-spied-on-european-union-offices-a-908590.html
    • Rogue Trooper 16.1

      30 June 2013 at 3:09 pm

      The Slatest
      http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/29/edward_snowden_nsa_leaks_glenn_greenwald_on_the_guardian_s_next_scoop.html
      Greenwald on how the NSA direct 1 Billion cell-phone calls a day into their data sup / repositories.

      Forbes on Greenwald
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmcquaid/2013/06/29/why-glenn-greenwald-drives-the-media-crazy/

      Question: “What is journalism” (today).
17. Morrissey 17

    30 June 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Humbug Corner
    
No. 10: “SIR” OWEN GLENN

    “I do care that every person, especially children, have [sic] the right to feel safe.”

    —-“Sir” Owen Glenn, Herald on Sunday, 9 June 2013
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10889282

    Humbug, n., a person or thing that tricks, deceives, talks, or behaves in a way that is deceptive, dishonest, false, or insincere, often a hoax or in jest. (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

    See also: fraud, gaff, impostor, spoof, swindle, bastard, brummagem, duffer, shoddy.

    Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More horrifying humbug….
    No. 9 “Sir” Owen Glenn: His abuse inquiry is floundering after revelations he was accused of physically abusing a young woman in 2002.

    Open mike 30/06/2013

    
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10889282
    No. 8 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”

    No. 7 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
    No. 6 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
    No.5 Dr. Rodney Syme: “If you want good, open, honest practice, you have to make it transparent.”

    Open mike 09/06/2013

    
    No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”

    No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”

    No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”


    Open mike 09/06/2013

    
    
No.1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”


    Open mike 02/06/2013
18. Rogue Trooper 18

    30 June 2013 at 3:31 pm

    just Clowning around – “constantly search and persist”
19. Rogue Trooper 19

    30 June 2013 at 3:59 pm

    The AML (and Countering Financing of Terrorism) Act
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10893662
    -Enhanced due diligence of the “politically exposed”.
20. Rosetinted 20

    30 June 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Constitution Conversation.
    Ranginui Walker was talking on Radionz Te Ahi Kaa this evening on how the Conversation meetings are going. He made a point that with an unwritten constitution people who consider change is needed can press for it through certain processes, whereas a written constitution is relatively fixed (there may be matters of interpretation) but consider ‘The Right to bear Arms’. What a difficulty there is in trying to govern this dangerous culture. How many years ago was that piece of legislation drawn up and how can a restrictive piece of legislation that governs over all be relevant over centuries, even over decades in our fast moving environment and culture.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/teahikaa
    Ranginui Walker ( 21′ 15″ ) 18:31 What’s becoming glaringly apparent to Constitutional Advisory Panel member
    Ranginui Walker, is that New Zealand’s education system is in need of a solid civics and history revamp. He discusses that and more with Maraea Rakuraku.

    What do you think about it? Make a submission.
    http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/search.html?q=meetings
    Some info from the Media Centre
    http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/Media-Centre
    • Rogue Trooper 20.1

      30 June 2013 at 7:28 pm

      tell us do, Rosetinted, what is becoming glaringly obvious? Another ‘living document” proposal.
21. Rosetinted 21

    30 June 2013 at 7:50 pm

    Rogue T
    Don’t know Rogue. I went to a CC meeting and left as the second speaker bombarded us with a lot of revisionist stuff against Maori, questioned the Treaty, and seemed to want to have a Constitution that would allow overturning all the conciliatory and justice work that has been done.

    I was angry to have to listen to these old male pakeha who seemed to want to shatter what we have – not build on the good, and get something that is not so distributed throughout the legislation.

    But I thought Ranginui Walker would have something wise to say, and in commenting that we should be careful in thinking whether we actually want a written prescriptive constitution, I believe that he made a good point.
22. Rosetinted 22

    30 June 2013 at 8:11 pm

    I had a little nut tree, / Nothing would it bear.
    I have tried twice to put something on the solar cycle and a warning on a science program on how sun extreme cycles can cut out whole electronic systems. There is an 11 year cycle. Let’s see if my nut tree will bear something now. It’s driving me nuts – first I lost it and the second gave me the fingers with ‘not a good http address.’

    Some interesting links.
    http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/01mar_twinpeaks/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle
    http://www.auroraborealispage.net/solarmax.html
    • Chooky 22.1

      1 July 2013 at 8:41 pm

      Interesting links .Thanx
23. Colonial Viper 23

    30 June 2013 at 9:50 pm

    “Attacks from America” – EU missions in Washington DC and New York targeted by NSA

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/nsa-spied-on-european-union-offices-a-908590.html
    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      30 June 2013 at 10:00 pm

      Right I see Poisson already posted this link…
24. logie97 24

    30 June 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Q+A this morning.
    One of the panel had a Cheshire cat smile on the issue of the big transport U-turn.
    Did he say, “It’s great really, my company has already done some work.”
    What would he have been privy to “already”, when Key only announced the plan on
    Friday.
25. xtasy 25

    1 July 2013 at 12:40 am

    ALL I want is to get out of this SHIT COUNTRY that is NEW ZEALAND, I have no MORE time for cowards and shits that inhabit these lost islands, I HATE YOU LOSERS, I spent years fighting for your interests, I worked even to get YOUR shit into the media that most of you people would never know to organise or do, the revolution is NEVER going to happen in this country, it is a dumb country a shit country, not worth even thinking about!!!

    I just before wrote a long post, to get some thinking, and what fucking happened? The website and system crashed. So get on with your damned life in this damned country, that I wish I never had come back to, I HATE NEW ZEALAND, A TOTAL LOST PLACE OF LOSERS AND ARSEHOLE BACK STABBERS AND OPPORTUNISTS.

    You will NEVER SEE AND HEAR FROM ME AGAIN ON THIS WEBSITE. I put hope into this site, but you are all losers, a minority and not even communicating, i.e. getting anything across, this country is there for the capitalist vultures to clean and rape, and they are doing it. I t is the gutlessness of ordinary Kiwis to just blog and ponder, and do NONE else to sell your own damned country out under your own arses!!!
    • Murray Olsen 25.1

      1 July 2013 at 8:10 pm

      Bye. You’re not the first left wing messiah to lose patience with the masses and blame them for the evils of capitalism, and you won’t be the last. Meanwhile, I’ll keep doing what I can.
26. amirite 26

    1 July 2013 at 9:47 am

    Is it a coincidence that Owen Glenn’s anti violence campaign has started going downhill ever since he received his knighthood? Maybe that’s all he was interested in.
27. Chooky 27

    1 July 2013 at 1:58 pm

    xstasy

    Come back…We are listening to you!. ( Don’t throw a tantrum!…the website is under crash attack from bad bots…Dont take it personally because it is happening to everyone….shows just how scared is the opposition of the collective voice of the Standard)

    You have a valuable voice and important thoughts ….You speak for the underdog and those at the very bottom who have no confidence and hence have lost their voice….We all have bad days….Take a breather and come back stronger…The Labour Party must represent New Zealanders like you , or it is doomed!!!!… Historically the people you are talking for have been the backbone of the Labour Party…Maybe you could also forge links with the activist Mana Party….But keep speaking out!

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