Open Mike 30/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 30th, 2017 - 83 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

83 comments on “Open Mike 30/06/2017”

  1. james 1

    Shane Jones to NZ First – Im thinking that this can only be good for National come post election discussions.

    • Some of the media have been promoting Jones’ chances for months and are now going hard out giving today’s announcement maximum publicity.

      Patrick Gower has gone further than most: 12 reasons why Shane Jones can win Whangarei

      He missed reason 13 – Paddy power.

      • There are actually other candidates for Whangarei, not that most people would know from what they hear in the media.

        Other contenders are:
        Shane Reti (National) – current MP, 13,169 in 2014
        Tony Savage (Labour)
        Ash Howell (Greens)
        Chris Leitch (Democrats)

        • Skinny 1.1.1.1

          Labour & Greens have fielded very strong candidates who appeal to many, more so than the weak candidates they stood in 2014. While Savage is pragmatic about Jones standing, I think Ash won’t cut any deal and given the Greens co leader has come out staunchly opposed to Jones. There will be no change in Whangarei Reti is it.

          • JanM 1.1.1.1.1

            Don’t forget that Whangarei is completely encircled by Winston’s electorate and we’ve still got an awful lot of one-way bridges up here – the trains still aren’t running and the trucks on the roads are getting worse

        • billmurray 1.1.1.2

          Pete George,
          All of the candidates that you have listed have been through a process of selection within their parties, particularly National and Labour who normally have vigorous process.
          Shane Jones did not go through any process.
          NZ First is a sham political party.

          • ianmac 1.1.1.2.1

            Bill M. Shane Jones was one of three candidates for the NZF position. To be settled by 1pm today.

          • AmaKiwi 1.1.1.2.2

            @ bill murray

            I agree, “NZ First is a sham political party.”

            Contemporary voting is based more on personalities than parties. Jones might significantly increase NZF party votes. That’s a major reason for him to run.

      • Skinny 1.1.2

        MSM are fawning all over Jones even had a couple asking if I will be there. Yeah I will get along box off a deal or 2 given they both know I hold the key for any upset victory up here.

        Interesting one of the MSM shills outed this;

        “One of National’s most senior MPs has even told me he thought Jones would win and Reti would lose.”
        Apparently it was Gerry Brownlee who said this. Not good a inner circle Minister thinks this of the ‘strong local voice’. Though Jabba was bitter his mini me Jones never beat Reti for the candidacy.

    • North 1.2

      On that very score (James @ 1 above) I’m rethinking my intended repeat vote for Winston Peters in Northland electorate. Additionally, the great ‘me me me’ void which is Jones quite repels this voter. It’s a question of character.

      • bwaghorn 1.2.1

        oh hell yes ,jones is shit

      • garibaldi 1.2.2

        Quite right North. A vote for NZF is a vote for more bloody National. And that means more pricks like Thiel. Just what we need!

      • Muttonbird 1.2.3

        +1. Jones is thoroughly unlikable. A dirty Jerry Brownlee.

        • mary_a 1.2.3.1

          @ MUTTONBIRD (1.2.3) … agree.

          Jones, the political prince of pawn, is as grubby as they come. Don’t think his selection will go down well with many NZF voters somehow.

      • Andre 1.2.4

        In the Northland by-election it actually made a difference whether you voted for Peters, the Nat wotzit, or any of the others. Because before the by-election the Nats only needed one of Rimmer or the hairdo or the Maori Party for a majority. After Peters won, the Nats needed the Maori Party or both Rimmer and the hairdo. That’s a major shift in the balance of power.

        In the coming election, it’s back to just the party vote that matters, unless you’re in Epsom, Ohariu, or the Maori electorates. For the other electorates, at most the electorate result just shuffles who’s in or out in the lower part of the list.

    • Ed 1.3

      Still awaiting your opinion on the real issues that affect many people in this country.

      How does New Zealand tackle the extreme levels of inequality
      How does New Zealand tackle child poverty
      How does New Zealand tackle extreme levels of suicide
      How does New Zealand tackle The housing crisis
      How does New Zealand tackle its alcohol problem
      How does New Zealand tackle the P epidemic
      How does New Zealand tackle Obesity

      • gsays 1.3.1

        Hi ed,
        I will offer a few answers to yr questions.
        The inequality/child poverty issue can be impacted by a UBI and a living wage.
        Nick hanaeur says it well here: https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming/up-next
        20 mins well spent.

        As to suicde/mental health/drugs, a Scandinavian country took a different approach. (I heard this on rnz about a month ago)
        They invested heavily in activities youth enjoy: sport music,cultural activities. The thinking was that the happy chemicals serotonin and dopamine are released in a sustainable way.
        Some of the effects were far less time on their devices, increased time with parents and a drop in the statistics that we kiwi are excelling in.
        This all takes time, which ironically, is a key by product of a UBI!

        “Show me the money”, I hear the Tories whine, a FTT, home tax, tobin tax.
        All doable we merely lack the will.

        • ianmac 1.3.1.1

          And in Iceland they developed a huge amount time/money in activity for young people. Alcohol use in teens dropped from 40% to 5%. The streets of Rechaivik (sp?) are now empty of loitering kids as they are too busy being active.

        • Gosman 1.3.1.2

          An FTT has been tried before in Sweden I believe. What was the result do you know?

          • McFlock 1.3.1.2.1

            the tax on equity securities nuked most domestic bond speculation – which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

            The ones in Switzerland and Taiwan rake in billions a year, so really it’s in how you implement it. How’s the one in Colombia doing? France? Italy? Peru? Belgium? the USA? In the 30-odd other countries that have some form of FTT?

            • gsays 1.3.1.2.1.1

              Thanks ianmac, that will be the one I heard about.

            • Stuart Munro 1.3.1.2.1.2

              If we are to believe Chang Ha-Joon, Switzerland’s relative prosperity relates to their having the highest consumption of locally manufactured goods – the financial sector contributes remarkably little to the great majority of the populace.

          • gsays 1.3.1.2.2

            Potentially sounds like in the state in the US that refunded tax to the citizenry because of the huge tax take from marijuana sales.

          • gsays 1.3.1.2.3

            Hi gosman,
            I am not familiar with the Swede example,
            If you benefit from the tax spend you would think it was good.
            If your previously untaxed habits become liable for a .01% tax, you may have a differing opinion.

            From what I have read it is one of the initiatives that appeals across the political spectrum.
            From the left it lessens inequality, from the right it allows more participants in the ‘market’.

      • Jenny Kirk 1.3.2

        Read Labour’s announced policies, Ed. Easy to find on their website. That will answer some of your queries – oh, and also read Andrew Little’s speeches – those should answer the rest of your queries.

        • adam 1.3.2.1

          We have, and we are not amused.

          • McFlock 1.3.2.1.1

            yeah, but when was the last time you were anything other than a glum puritan?

            • adam 1.3.2.1.1.1

              When were you anything but a beige liberal?

              • McFlock

                Well, I used to be door security for heritage buildings, but decided to give it up after someone kicked me in the portico.

                I tried to qualify as a pilot, but it didn’t go well when I winged the test.

                Had a short stint as a ghostwriter, but apparently publishers expect more than “ooooooOOOOOOOooooaveeennnggeeemeeeeeee”.

                Tried being a plasterer, but got fired after sorting out the plumber’s crack.

                Went to med school to be a surgeon, but I just couldn’t cut it.

                But I’ve always been a smartarse.

                • greywarshark

                  McFlock
                  Your short stint as a ghostwriter taught you a lot about levity. (That’s meant to be funny in case I am misunderstood.)

                  • In Vino

                    Rather relieved that you didn’t try proctology, McFlock
                    Or is that something to do with ‘smartarse’?

                    • McFlock

                      There were some bits of the job I could handle, but in a general sense there was something wrong, on the whole, that I just couldn’t put my finger on.

                    • Incognito

                      As they say, it’s a shitty workplace and there’s no light at the end of the tunnel.

                  • McFlock

                    that’s the spirit!

                    • In Vino

                      With such sensitive fingers, you should have been a surgeon..

                    • Incognito

                      Or a masseur or a Reiki Master or a Braille proof-reader or …

                    • McFlock

                      being a masseuse didn’t end happily for me, I took the Reiki just an inch too far and it got weird, and I got fired from the braille job after an incident with a sesame seed bun.

                    • You were in computers for a bit weren’t you?

                    • McFlock

                      No, we did go out on a couple of dates but they never went anywhere.

                    • Incognito

                      Very good riposte.

                      Ever considered politics?

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      I’d keep getting kicked out of the House for telling tories to suck my balls. I really did work venue security for years, and the patois of the street is difficult to shake. And there’s something about smiling tories that makes my fists itch.

                      But there are plenty of opportunities to slog away for the good fight while being restrained from general public contact. And the last six months or so I’ve been working with a local community culture&heritage group – you’d be amazed at how many people need a halfway decent bureaucrat. When their place is up and running I’ll be slamming together just a basic excel worksheet for people and skillsets that will flag when safety and competency certifications (first aid/fire/etc) are due to expire – you know, the sort of things that slip off the radar and then cause havoc five years later when auditors discover they’re noncompliant.

                      So still busy busy 🙂

                • BM

                  My Plastering always sucked arse.

                  Paper tape, terrible, bubbles and all sorts of shite.

                  Then I discovered this product, fucking amazing

                  http://intex.co.nz/shop/Brands/Fibafuse/x_cat/00860.html

                  What a difference, I’m no pro but wow you get a good result.

      • Jan Rivers 1.3.3

        Scoop is holding a consultation on housing using the HiveMind platform – a modern civics application that supports text analysis of different viewpoints.

        There is plenty of information on the page but essentially we have sourced ideas from across the political spectrum from – NZ initiative, Renters United, Community Housing Aotearoa, government policy, party manifestos, research articles and so on.

        If you are able I’d be delighted if you can take part. The output will be a report on the diversity of views proposed and analysis of approaches that seem to have wide endorsement. We have contacted hundreds of people interested in the area – people involved in public housing, rental campaigns, property companies, estate agents, builders and developers as well as our readership.

        The consultation is here http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1706/S00034/making-housing-affordable-lets-crack-it.htm and it got a nice write up on last week’s Media Watch http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201848483/getting-engaged-with-the-audience and is open till next Sunday 9 July

    • bwaghorn 1.4

      i had a look at the last election results , unfortunately the chances of jones and reti splitting the vote far enough for labour to get in is unlikely, unless the greens pull their person

    • Felix Marwick runs against the media tide:

      But ask yourself this? How appropriate will Shane Jones be as a New Zealand First candidate given his past history? He was after all the minister that controversially approved citizenship for businessman Bill Liu, a man convicted in May of money laundering. How does that fit with New Zealand First’s immigration and law and order stances?

      http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/opinion/felix-marwick-politicians-so-often-too-cute-with-the-truth/

    • Ad 1.6

      Shane Jones is a near-perfect candidate for New Zealand First.

      While he won’t win in Whangarei, he will get a good list placing and will strengthen the NZF firepower in parliament whether they are a part of the government or not. If they do get in to government, he is already an experienced Minister.

      He is an excellent campaigner, always funny at the podium, self-funding, well versed, charming (if that kind of thing appeals), takes no prisoners, qualified Masters in Public Administration with further study at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Management, and now on top of that plenty of diplomatic and commercial experience across the Pacific.

      If a Labour and Greens binary grouping cannot work with Shane Jones, they have absolutely no chance of being in power until 2020, and it will be their fault not his.

      • I reckon Jones is bought and paid for by National and will serve only them no matter what position he holds. Labour and The Greens can do nothing about that.

      • weka 1.6.2

        Given Jones’ antipathy towards the Greens and the Greens willingness and ability to work with anyone in shared policy, I think your analysis is flawed. But another good reason for lefties to not vote NZF, jones would be just as happy with national.

        • Ad 1.6.2.1

          I know why you would say that.
          But New Zealand First doesn’t need the Greens.
          The Greens need New Zealand First.

          • weka 1.6.2.1.1

            The Greens don’t need NZF. If you want change but not power for its own sake then you don’t have to play those games in that way.

            I would say the ball is in Labour’s court on this. I’ve seen the argument that Labour should just come out and say it won’t work with NZF and then centrist/swing voters can choose if they want to change the govt or not. Of course Labour aren’t going to do that but it does sharpen the mind.

            Plus it’s up to swing, centrist and left wing voters generally. I don’t have a problem with NZF being in a coalition with Labour and the Greens, and I can certainly see why NZF appeals to many people needing a better government than we’ve had. But I do have a problem with Peters in that because despite the useful things he’s done, he has also routinely used MMP to lessen representation and consolidate power to the middle and the right. I full expect him to continue to do that including in post-election negotiations.

            There should be a line beyond which the powermongering has to be resisted for its own sake and I’d prefer the Greens to stay out of government rather than be so compromised as to see themselves as having to bow down to the anti-democratic positions of Peters and Jones if that’s what Peters insists upon. I would trust the Greens to know where that line is, but it would also be very hard given how hard they’ve worked to get into govt. Not sure what the membership would do, and a lot will depend on them.

            I don’t mind the Greens becoming more mainstream, while it lessens their progressiveness somewhat it moves NZ in a better direction. But if NZ chooses a centrist, right of Labour govt via NZF, then we need the Greens to hold the left position because there is literally no-one else to do it. They can’t do that if the kaupapa is appeasing Shane Jones in order to gain power.

      • He has the kind of “charm” that does not appeal, in fact it makes me want to smack him in the face: smug, pompous false bonhomie, always with a strand of malicious bigotry underlying it.

        He may have been to a fancy university and been a hit on the local cocktail circuit, but the only things he’s famous for are ones that prompt the suspicion that he’s corrupt. He’d fit right in to a National cabinet, but I guess he prefers to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

        Certainly Labour and the Greens would be nuts to have anything to do with him.

    • Im thinking James is correct.

  2. Penny Bright 2

    This conveniently ‘clocking out’ at will from the NZ ‘Ministerial factory’ is just more utter BILLSHIT.

    Seen THIS?

    How is being a New Zealand Minister, including the PRIME Minister, not a 24/7 ‘job’?

    Here’s what the NZ Cabinet Manual states:

    https://dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-6

    Conduct of Ministers

    2.55A Minister of the Crown, while holding a ministerial warrant, acts in a number of different capacities:

    in a ministerial capacity, making decisions and determining and promoting policy within particular portfolios;

    in a political capacity as a member of Parliament, representing a constituency or particular community of interest; and

    in a personal capacity.

    2.56In all these roles and at all times, Ministers are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards.

    This includes exercising a professional approach and good judgement in their interactions with the public and officials, and in all their communications, personal and professional.

    Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour.

    2.57Holding ministerial office is regarded as a full-time occupation and is remunerated as such. Accordingly:

    accepting additional payment for doing anything that could be regarded as a ministerial function is not permissible; and
    accepting payment for any other activities requires the prior approval of the Prime Minister.

    _____________________________

    The problem?

    “Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour.”

    What happens when the Prime Minister arguably does NOT act lawfully and behaves in a way that does NOT uphold and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards?

    Is the Prime Minister going to sack himself?

    Unlikely.

    So – I guess that becomes the job of the voting public on 23 September 2017?

    Penny Bright

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

    • Ad 2.1

      So all you are saying that is if Bill English gets re-elected, all his sins are forgiven.

      • Johan 2.1.1

        …and a person like Hitler got massive German public approval, even after many misdeeds. What is your real point Ad?

        • Ad 2.1.1.1

          Go for Godwin, so quick!

          Penny is citing the Cabinet manual, proposing that it has no real effect, then saying the election is the real law. On both counts she is wrong, and dumb. Bill English will be re-elected by a country mile but that does not make what he did right. Nor does it make the Cabinet manual ineffective. Penny should hold her breath until the Police have completed the further examination and make a determination.

      • Psych nurse 2.1.2

        No a few Hail Mary’s for penance and all his sins are forgiven, a good Catholic will already have confessed.’Bless me father for I have sinned etc’.See no quilt.

  3. Philj 3

    The RNZ “In The House” This link is the privatisation of government services, including Universities. Also the dire state of RNZ being defended by Richard Griffen. This has recieved minimum coverage in the MSM and was difficult to find on the RNZ website. Disgraceful.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201849371

    • Covered by Stuff here.

      Illustrates what the staff there are dealing with. Long list of issues presented:

      “There’s a concern that RNZ hasn’t managed reasonably well on its reduced funding. There’s a downgrade in regional coverage, cuts in key programs, there’s no buffer in the staffing – so they’re down to a skeleton staff on the weekends, there’s key staff resignations, a loss of experience, thin cover in the newsroom, the closure of regional offices including Tauranga and Queenstown – no journalists now between Hamilton and Napier,”

      To which the board chair Richard Griffin apparently considers this a compelling rebuttal:

      “Our audience is bigger both online and on-air than they’ve ever been.”

      It’s an object lesson in why you shouldn’t appoint right-wingers to run public-sector organisations.

      • tc 3.1.1

        national treat every govt dept and SOE as a potential opportunity to further their interests, shore up positions and dish out sinecures.

        RNZ/TVNZ are willing participants under griffin and house of travel kev after recycling rik laid the groundwork, blew sheds of cash on tivo and gave heartland away to sky.

      • In Vino 3.1.2

        Exactly. Commercial radio is so appallingly bad that people flee to National Radio, and a dumb-arse commercialist uses this as an excuse for deliberate underfunding of National Radio. (I refuse to agree to all the expensive name-changes that National Radio has undergone over recent years.)

  4. Kevin 5

    Does anyone know what is happening with Chris Trotter’s Bowalley Road blog?

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz

    No update since the end of May.

  5. AsleepWhileWalking 6

    A story of sharing a one bedroom flat between eight people + the baby is now better than anything on offer by the state (ie nothing).

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/06/30/update-family-of-five-including-six-month-old-baby-accommodation-crisis/

  6. Bearded Git 7

    National are in trouble on the Peter Thiel “12 days” scandal. It is something the public can easily understand, and smacks of privilege and favouritism to mates.

    But it is worse than that. On RNZ Nine to Noon just now the comedians, Raybon Kan and Michelle O’Court couldn’t resist the issue and roasted it.

    O’Court suggested that when the Americas Cup comes to Auckland this would mean a lot of rich white men would come too, so the government should open a Citizenship Kiosk, handing out passports to the rich white men as they would be here for longer than 12 days.

    Raybon Kan, having listened to Nathan Guy’s reasons for granting citizenship, said that Guy was worshiping Thiel like he was Harry Styles, and that Guy must have a poster of Thiel up in his room.

    When the comedians are finding such fertile ground for irony in a government decision, they are in trouble.

    • James Thrace 7.1

      A’Court. Not O’Court.

      They’re right. Citizenship for sale is something that should make those who have given up their lives to move to NZ, gone through the process, and become a citizen through proper channels, very mad.

      We still haven’t seen any compelling reasons as to why he was given citizenship. Apart from a vulture fund that benefited Thiel, and a few million pumped into Xero (and likely sold when it hit $50 a share)…

      He was supposed to promote NZ on the world stage? A quick Google shows he has never mentioned NZ in his multiple speaking engagements over the last two years… And he deals a lot with the IT sector, which he was supposed to promote NZ to.

      So, this is something that should be taken further. Judicial review a possibility?

      • Bearded Git 7.1.1

        @James Thrace

        A’Court-thanks. Not sure if judicial review would work as outside statutory period to lodge. But you have reminded me of something else Raybon Kan alluded to, which was: Who else has had the same treatment?

        Maybe we need an OIA request asking for info on any other dubious citizenship approvals over the last few years.

  7. Carolyn_nth 8

    I got an email from the Labour Party thanking me for attending the launch of their community action network. Eh? Not me.

    I used the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the email.

  8. greywarshark 9

    Jane Goodall, now 83, has been travelling the world 300 days a year and her message is to be kind to each other and other animals.

    • Poission 9.1

      chimpanzees are altruistic, even at personal cost, if it involves reciprocity.

      http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/06/13/1700351114.abstract

      • greywarshark 9.1.1

        Chimpanzees have their limitations too. Mothers may group together and raid another group and catch and eat their babies. Also when one chimpanzee became ill and its fur changed colour or something, he was rejected from his group who wouldn’t groom him. Jane had to help him as a fellow group member to gather the materials for his nest each night as no-one else would.

        The old primitive things that come up in our minds need to be dealt to with our superior intellect, but usually aren’t and often we use that intellect to impose harm to a psychotic degree.

        • Alwyn 9.1.1.1

          “Jane had to help him”
          You mean that that miserable bugger Tarzan, the supposed “Tarzan of the apes” didn’t do it first?
          Or do you have some other Jane in mind?

          • greywarshark 9.1.1.1.1

            Alwyn
            I just presumed that any informed person on TS would know about Jane Goodall and her groundbreaking research and study on chimpanzees.
            A woman whose work is all good. Easy to remember her name.
            The official title for her work is Primatologist also ethologist, anthropologist.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall

            There you are. An information capsule – just slip it in the nearest gap in your head.

            • greywarshark 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Sorry Alwyn you were making a funny which I consider good medicine but you just touched a nerve there. I tend to revere people like Jane Goodall who stick to their task of finding out things we need to know that make us better and more informed even though they get flak along the way.

              • Alwyn

                Yes, it was only mean’t as a simple joke.
                I should have realised who you were talking abot as you had given the full name a couple of comments earliar. I just didn’t connect the two.
                Blame it on jet lag.

  9. greywarshark 10

    Carolyn-nth
    Perhaps that’s Labour’s random act of beauty and kindness for the day encouraging people to do what they are praised for. That would be clever thinking.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts