Open mike 30/08/2012

124 comments on “Open mike 30/08/2012”

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1. Morrissey 1

   30 August 2012 at 7:04 am

   WIMP WALLOPING : David Shearer on Larry Williams Drive
   NewstalkZB, Wednesday 29 August 2012, 6.18 to 6:24p.m.

   Williams is shamelessly partisan and pro-National. Thirty minutes before this debacle, he had Gerry Brownlee on the programme, and treated him with cringing deference, feeding him the sort of patsy questions that someone like Simon Bridges or Chris Tremain serves up for a minister at Question Time in the House.

   Toward the Leader of the Opposition, though, his tone was radically different….

   Re selling off our state assets, Williams insolently stated: “You see risks, David, because you don’t want them sold.” Shearer let that go, unchallenged.

   Williams asked in a querulous tone: “Why SHOULDN’T private investors own umm, ahhh, part of the power company?” Shearer garbled a reply, and Williams condescendingly capped him by quoting something by Steven Joyce. Again, Shearer failed to pick him up on that, failed to challenge him.

   And it wasn’t over….

   WILLIAMS: Listen, the report on the child poverty…
   SHEARER: Uh, we’re still looking THROUGH that…”

   WILLIAMS: Do you really think these parents can’t afford to feed these kids some porridge?
   SHEARER: Uhhh…

   Throughout the interview, Larry Williams was by turn brusque, condescending and insolent.

   How long can this go on?

   Statistical analysis of Shearer’s performance:

   “y’know”…. 11 times
   “um”…. 14 times
   “uh uh, ahhh”…. 16 times
   “and and and and”…. 6 times
   “in the in the in the”….. 9 times
   “yeah”…… 5 times

   • Bill 1.1

     30 August 2012 at 7:44 am

     Don’t know how you do it Morrissey. This talent you have for listening to antagonistic tosh and dissecting it is kind of admirable. Must admit, I’d need a stockpile of radios and a good plasterer if I tried to emulate your efforts. And although you deserve a medal of some description, I’m afraid you’ll just have to settle for my thanks for making me laugh first thing in the morning. That running total of ‘Shearisms’ is pure gold.

   • vto 1.2

     30 August 2012 at 8:28 am

     Morrissey, your transcripts do an amazing job of cutting through the bullshit to see exactly what was going on. Your one yesterday I think it was Deaker and some others was brilliant.

     They should be made to listen to themselves.

     • Lanthanide 1.2.1

       30 August 2012 at 9:59 am

       I’ve given up paying attention to Morrissey’s transcripts after he twice transcribed interviews I had listened to and his transcription was biased and out of context.

       • Morrissey 1.2.1.1

         30 August 2012 at 10:10 am

         I’ve given up paying attention to Morrissey’s transcripts after he twice transcribed interviews I had listened to and his transcription was biased and out of context.

         Nonsense. You were upset because I recorded the inanity and lack of thought in the comments of some pro-nuclear shills on the National Radio.

         I didn’t record them verbatim, it was a rush transcript, but the gist of their idiotic comments was correct.

         Let’s not forget that even as the Japanese government was seriously considering the evacuation of the city of Tokyo, YOU were blithering on about how SAFE nuclear power is. My transcripts, which underlined the lack of intellectual substance and complete lack moral integrity of pro-nuclear advocates, clearly angered you. Your objections were nothing more than quibbles about a few missing words, and are thus quite spurious.

         • Lanthanide 1.2.1.1.1

           30 August 2012 at 10:26 am

           “I didn’t record them verbatim, it was a rush transcript, but the gist of their idiotic comments was correct.”

           If you didn’t record them verbatim, why did you present it as if you had, and then defended it when I challenged you on it?

           The topic really isn’t relevant.

         • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1.1.2

           30 August 2012 at 10:36 am

           So not a transcript, then Mozza? Just a precis? Can I suggest you don’t use the word ‘transcript’ in future, now that you’ve acknowleged that they are no such thing.

         • Bored 1.2.1.1.3

           30 August 2012 at 11:31 am

           Hey Morrissey, we never managed to agree on the World Cup final…..went on forever..and we agreed to disagree. I did however send you to metaphorical purgatory for being ideologically impure on referees being innocent until proven guilty…and you then got a ban proving there is a God and I was right. So there. Carry on.

           • Morrissey 1.2.1.1.3.1

             30 August 2012 at 1:22 pm

             and you then got a ban proving there is a God and I was right. So there. Carry on.

             Yes, my friend, I’m sorry to say I was in purgatory for a month after that one.

     • Morrissey 1.2.2

       30 August 2012 at 10:04 am

       Your one yesterday I think it was Deaker and some others was brilliant.

       Actually, it was Larry (Pravda) Williams again….

       http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-29082012/comment-page-1/#comment-514451

   • fnjckg 1.3

     30 August 2012 at 8:41 am

     yup

   • tc 1.4

     30 August 2012 at 8:59 am

     Epic fail again, wtf is he even doing on the right wing rant radio channel anyway. Another own goal.

     Play the game in a way you can be effective…..what a media dunce DS is.

   • David H 1.5

     30 August 2012 at 10:20 am

     Thats sad, Sad because of the performance of the labour leader. And sadder still that someone actually counted his umms, arrrs, and errs. And saddest of all is the unimpressive totals.
     Sorry people but on that performance he has got to go.

   • aerobubble 1.6

     30 August 2012 at 10:35 am

     Joyce says government can’t legislate for prosperity,
     but can take the draw down of charity profits
     from pokies, and give them to SkyCity
     for a conference center.

     Joyce shouts, GFC has made governing to hard, along with Labours
     legacy, National is unable to turn the economy around!
     Defeatism from Joyce.

     Then, Joyce says that tax cuts don’t effect benefitaries,
     as we all know Australians don’t pay tax on the first dollar
     of income, unlike here in NZ where 10.2% is levied, as
     National achieved nothing in reducing this rate from 12.5% to 10.2%!

     See National believes that Kiwis aren’t going to OZ for the zero tax income
     on the five thousand earned, the capital gains tax that increase the burden
     on the non-productive sector, but because there are jobs in OZ.

     • mike e 1.6.1

       31 August 2012 at 12:49 am

       So joyce is saying the brighter future was a con

       • Colonial Viper 1.6.1.1

         31 August 2012 at 12:51 am

         Which we knew all along. Too bad there are no competing visions of NZ out there to show the public.

         • prism 1.6.1.1.1

           2 September 2012 at 11:05 am

           CV 1 6 1 1
           competing visions of NZ out there
           This morning on Chris Laidlaw Radionz Jim Dier a very enthusiastic community builder who has found that he and his fellows have made a lot of difference. So he is not an armchair idealist but a thinking down-and-dirty-hands worker who has a good idea that works. Audio should be up by noon.

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
           10:06 Ideas: Growing Communities
           Epuni Primary School’s Common Unity Project aims to produce enough fruit and vegetables to feed not only the school’s 110 pupils but their families as well. It’s a classic example of what’s been called Asset Based Community Development – or ABC Development. Ideas visits Epuni Primary School in Lower Hutt and talks to the project’s volunteer coordinator Julia Milne; Jim Diers, a proponent of the ABCD movement, tells Jeremy Rose about Seattle’s Strong Communities Initiative; and Denise Bijoux of Inspiring Communities talks to Chris Laidlaw about the proliferation of asset-based community projects in New Zealand.
           Presented by Chris Laidlaw
           Produced by Jeremy Rose.

   • fisiani 1.7

     30 August 2012 at 11:17 am

     Shearers eloquence evokes passion in the hearts of listeners. He is umm, ah the best best possible leader for umm New Zealand , yeah.

2. Logie97 2

   30 August 2012 at 7:26 am

   … don’t torture yourself by listening to ZB. Listen to Radio NZ “National” Programme instead. That way your stress levels will drop markedly, and you’ll find that bigots like Williams, Smith, Watson et al become irrelevant.

   What sort of independence do you think you will get from the commercial network anyway?

   • Morrissey 2.1

     30 August 2012 at 7:40 am

     … don’t torture yourself by listening to ZB.

     That ten minutes or so, plus the earlier interview with Brownlee, was all I listened to on NewstalkZB yesterday. Oh, and a few minutes of gardening expert Simon Farrell and Danny Watson being flippant and unfunny with their elderly callers earlier in the day.

     Listen to Radio NZ “National” Programme instead.

     I usually do.

     That way your stress levels will drop markedly, and you’ll find that bigots like Williams, Smith, Watson et al become irrelevant.

     Not correct. Have you listened to Jim Mora’s programme? Have you listened to Geoff Robiinson’s patsy interviews in the morning?

     What sort of independence do you think you will get from the commercial network anyway?

     Fair comment.

     • Logie97 2.1.1

       30 August 2012 at 7:52 am

       Sorry Morrissey, I thought the “National” in quotes might have been a concession there. Yeah, well I’ve let Mora know my feelings on many issues and Robinson… well he is best suited to Births Deaths and Marriages announcements where he can put on his “I’m ever so concerned” voice.

     • tc 2.1.2

       30 August 2012 at 9:01 am

       Yup morrissey, Robinson is a complete suckup, Mora belongs on ZB more that RNZ.

       Another clever subtle tweak by the CT folk with nat boy Griffin pulling the strings at RNZ.

     • David H 2.1.3

       30 August 2012 at 10:27 am

       I don’t listen to Radio. Haven’t for 15 years I used to listen to talkback radio when delivering pizza’s, and it wasn’t too bad. But i was somewhere the other day, where they had some honking idiot shouting all over the other person who was trying to make a point. And the 15 years radio less were instantly justified.

       • Morrissey 2.1.3.1

         30 August 2012 at 1:27 pm

         I don’t listen to Radio. Haven’t for 15 years I used to listen to talkback radio when delivering pizza’s, and it wasn’t too bad. But i was somewhere the other day, where they had some honking idiot shouting all over the other person who was trying to make a point.

         There’s a high likelihood that that honking idiot was one of the following: Leighton Smith, Larry Williams, Michael Laws, Mark Watson. Of course, there are others almost as bad, but they are the worst.

         And the 15 years radio less were instantly justified.

         Books are best. I agree.

         • David H 2.1.3.1.1

           30 August 2012 at 3:35 pm

           Yes I agree books are best. In fact I am just re reading Joe Haldemans The Forever War and Forever Peace. Just as valid now as when it was written.

3. Robert Atack 3

   30 August 2012 at 7:36 am

   Health warning, and NZ 100% pure bullshit.

   Transpower have been painting the pylons supporting the Haywards A & B transmission lines for about the last year (?). As they are coming closer to the pylons near my dwelling I started to look into exactly what they were doing.
   Transpower are using a product called Garnet, ignoring the .05% lead in this stuff, it is relatively inert, and is even used in water filters. It is also used, along with high pressure water, to cut steel. Garnet certainly has the ability to lift galvanising off steel.
   So my question is what is in the galvanising?
   It turns out it contains Cadmium and Zinc, which when hit with high pressure water and Garnet will cause the Cadmium and Zinc to be more or less vaporised.
   I rang OSH, they asked how to spell Cadmium? But are now looking into this.
   It is kind of hard to see a 100% pure NZ/Kapiti with these heave metals blowing all over the district.
   Anyone living near a freshly painted pylon may need a blood test.

   • weka 3.1

     30 August 2012 at 9:40 am

     Out of sight, out of mind. Tourists don’t arrive with heavy metal testing capabilities 😉

     Maybe you should notify the Ministry of Health, they’re not too keen on heavy metals.

   • David H 3.2

     30 August 2012 at 10:31 am

     And where are the experts, the people that are supposed to know about this shit??? Probably ‘Gone to Aus” But to ask how to spell Cadmium, why does that not leave me with a very warm feeling ?

   • joe90 3.3

     30 August 2012 at 11:00 am

     Robert, zinc galvanising isn’t cadmium plating, garnet injected water blasting isn’t garnet injected water jet cutting, mechanically sloughed particles aren’t vapourised oxides and hand to mouth ingestion isn’t metal fume fever.

     • weka 3.3.1

       30 August 2012 at 2:36 pm

       Are  you saying there are no pollution issues?

     • joe90 3.3.2

       30 August 2012 at 4:05 pm

       Are you saying there are no pollution issues?

       The only by-product of the sand injected blasting would be zinc from the galvanised tower struts, no heating so no oxides, and the abrasive sand.

       With strict compliance conditions regarding recovery of blasting sand and residue, including lead from previous paint jobs, pollution from tower painting is from the transport and compressor emissions.

       Cadmium plating is limited to high value components and fasteners so it’s highly unlikely there’ll be any present on transmission tower steel.

       If you’re the one doing the blasting/painting you’re compelled to cover up and use a mask because of the nature of the work and as with most industrial poisoning the real risk is hand to mouth ingestion.

       If you’re a grazing animal the sand wouldn’t be to good for your teeth and no doubt you’d exceed the daily zinc allowance but in my experience there’s rarely if ever any stock present because the animals do tend to either eat your gear or shit all over it.

       So IMO there’s no real risk of being poisoned by zinc, an essential mineral in your diet, the blasting sand is only bad for you if you ingest it and the presence of cadmium is highly unlikely.

       Transpower guidelines.

4. Te Reo Putake 4

   30 August 2012 at 7:44 am

   One of my chief delights is the English fortnightly magazine Private Eye whose covers are usually a news photo with a satirical caption and speech bubble attached. The latest issue is particularly funny, though Muzza, Mozza and other members of the rapidly dwindling Assange fan club should probably look away.
    
   Assange Taunts Hague.
    
   The cover when the Queen met former IRA man Martin McGuiness earlier this year wasn’t bad either!

   • Bill 4.1

     30 August 2012 at 7:59 am

     I think you should give people more credit for having a sense of humour TRP. I’m certainly one of those people who figures it is absolutely unacceptable for a person to be exposed to a somewhat paranoid and vindictive US justice system on the back of some other, unrelated and actual crime they may or may not have committed.

     The PE cover is genuinely humourous.

   • Morrissey 4.2

     30 August 2012 at 8:09 am

     I love Private Eye. It has a go at everyone, even the saintly, and it’s always funny.

     Yes, they’re having a go at Assange here, but their coverage of his persecution by the state has been thorough and fair.

     Unlike you, the Eye long ago worked out that William Hague is a pathetic little worm and an inveterate liar, qualities that come in useful when mounting a campaign against a dangerous dissenter. Unlike you, they can have a go at Assange while also realizing the attacks on him by scoundrels like Hague are politically motivated.

     You say that the Eye is one of your “chief delights”, but it is clear that you just don’t get it.

     • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1

       30 August 2012 at 8:18 am

       Ho ho, very satirical! I do get it, by the way. Every fortnight, by airmail.

       • Morrissey 4.2.1.1

         30 August 2012 at 8:19 am

         I do get it, by the way. Every fortnight, by airmail.

         No, you don’t “get it”.

         • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1.1.1

           30 August 2012 at 8:23 am

           I see your humour bypass has kicked in again, Mozza!

           • Morrissey 4.2.1.1.1.1

             30 August 2012 at 9:42 am

             I see your humour bypass has kicked in again, Mozza!

             My “humour bypass”? I did get the joke, in case you were wondering.

   • Bored 4.3

     30 August 2012 at 11:12 am

     FFS TR, who gives a flying fekk at a rolling donut about a rapidly dwindling Assange fan club? Are we being told what is politically correct to think again, tow the line or you are going to be show trialled a al Soviet by the blogging ideologues on TS?

   • muzza 4.4

     30 August 2012 at 12:24 pm

     When did I ever indicate I was part of the Assange “fan club” in my posts on the topic?

     • Te Reo Putake 4.4.1

       30 August 2012 at 12:36 pm

       Whoops, my mistake. It was another poster altogether I was thinking of, Muzza, humble apologies.

     • Morrissey 4.4.2

       30 August 2012 at 2:09 pm

       Muzza, the intention is to trivialize your arguments. One fool called me a “fan boy” at least three times. If Assange was Jewish, he no doubt would used an antisemitic slur against me.

5. Logie97 5

   30 August 2012 at 7:55 am

   Key gets lucky again.

   Remember his support for S59 and how it boosted his public image while the Left got punished for social engineering. Now his open support for the Marriage Bill looks good, but he doesn’t have to speak to it, just leaves his vote, while he is off at some Pacific Forum.

   • Logie97 5.1

     30 August 2012 at 8:11 am

     … have a look at the Herald’s photo of Louisa Wall – illustrates the point. Can’t imagine they would publish that sort of picture of our PM.
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10830418

6. Seti 6

   30 August 2012 at 8:03 am

   The US government has established a new vehicle fuel economy standard for all cars and light trucks by 2025, which will nearly double the current regulation.
   http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/28/13527985-obama-raising-fuel-standard-to-average-545-mpg-by-2025?lite

   Manufacturers will have to achieve an average of 54.5mpg or 4.36 litres per 100km. How does that compare with current models?

   Toyota Prius  4.7 l/100km
   Honda Civic hybrid  5.3 l/100km
   Mitsi Lancer  7.7 l/100km
   Ford Falcon 9.9 l/100km
   Bugatti Veyron 29 l/100km

   So the new average economy for all models will have to exceed the most efficient currently available. 

   “Everybody is a winner today,” said Frances Beinecke, president of the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group.
   “Motorists win because they will have much more fuel-efficient cars to drive, thus saving thousands of dollars at the gas pump every year,” Beinecke said. “The auto industry — and its workers — win because these standards will spur the creation of thousands of new jobs as well as state-of-the-art vehicles that go nearly twice as far on the same gallon of gasoline.”

   These standards will flow on to global manufacturing not just US produced models.

   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     30 August 2012 at 9:21 am

     Its interesting that they managed to pass this very tough (and actually world leading) legislation – they had help from a lot of Republicans in order to do so. However, they are counting on a lot of sales of electric and semi-electric vehicles in order to meet the overall average requirement. That’s where these regulations are taking a big risk, in terms of technical and commercial feasibility.

     The other longstanding trend to bear in mind is that new car sales in the US are slow and that people are holding onto existing cars longer and longer. Average vehicle age in the US is now a record 10.8 years.

     In other words, the new mileage standards will take up to a decade before significantly reducing US gasoline consumption.

   • mike e 6.2

     30 August 2012 at 10:39 am

     seti the hybrid figures above are manufactures figures in reality hybrid cars are no more effecient than small petrol cars + the huge energy cost of manufacture.

   • Lanthanide 6.3

     30 August 2012 at 12:30 pm

     Reading comments on this on Slashdot, there was one very interesting one. Note that I haven’t verified it’s veracity.

     These aren’t actually MPG standards, but are air emissions standards, which can *equate* to MPG standards. However the equation part is actually quite misleading. For example, to improve emissions you can either increase fuel efficiency or invent a better better exhaust / muffler system – either will be sufficient to meet the emissions standards. The commenter also indicated that such things as swapping standard incandescent lamps in headlines/brake lights to LEDs can be counted towards the emissions reductions, which doing absolutely nothing for the fuel efficiency of the car.

7. mickysavage 7

   30 August 2012 at 8:48 am

   Well, Julie Anne Genter handed ex labour party MP and rogernome /hiss/ Ken Shirley his arse on Morning Report this morning.

   How refreshing to have a fact based presentation of transport issues as opposed to the wooly headed rhetoric we normally get.

   • vto 7.1

     30 August 2012 at 9:05 am

     Yes mr micky that is refreshing. Ken Shirley had no answers.

     Now that approach needs to be applied to other major issues facing us, such as;

     How having foreign landlords is a better thing for us.
     Why selling the assets is a good thing when it is actually costing us.
     Why the taxpayer needs to support big business all the time (NZX, irrigation, etc).

     As far as I can see, the right wing free market private business model is lying in tatters on the road. Farmers have woken up and acknowledged their pollution (different issue, but with same attitudes) but it took some time…. and similarly, it will take a bit more time before these other sectors acknowledge their very substantial and fatal flaws.

   • Jackal 7.2

     30 August 2012 at 10:17 am

     Thanks for that mickysavage. I found this bit interesting:

     Ken Shirley: Bigger but fewer trucks than you would otherwise have, and safer trucks because they are higher technology and you can get up to 20 per cent improved loadings ah in bigger trucks but fewer trucks than you would otherwise need for a given freight task.

     There is no “higher technology” being employed… They are simply loading the same old trucks to the maximum weight they can carry. Not only does this cause more wear and tear on the trucks themselves, making them less safe, it damages our roading infrastructure.

     Shirley is wrong that there will be less trucks on our roads. National has recently revealed plans to further disestablish our rail network, which will push more heavy freight onto less efficient trucks.

     Of course road repairs and things like $45 million for strengthening bridges so heavier vehicles can use them are socialized costs. This ensures that the trucking industry appears on paper to be more cost effective, because they’re simply not paying all their overheads.

     Shirley was also completely wrong concerning the Auckland rail link. Even before you account for the benefits from highway decongestion, things like job creation and regional efficiency make the CBD rail link economically viable.

     Perhaps the intellectually deficient Ken Shirley was getting confused with the holiday highway, which has completely failed its cost to benefit analysis.

   • Sanctuary 7.3

     30 August 2012 at 10:29 am

     Bahahahahaha at Ken Shirley resorting to a straight party-political diatribe when he lost the argument!

     “They don’t like it up ’em, do they captain Mainwaring!”

     I must confess I love it when smug right-wing middle aged white men are trounced in public like that, it really rattles their cage and they absolutely hate it.

8. ak 8

   30 August 2012 at 8:51 am

   Tentacles.

   Jaybus aitch fracking Christmas, Carol, just when you thought you’d plumbed the depths of gormless, racist, arrogant shallowness, out pops another zinger from the Keyster.

   Tentacles. Way to burn off decades of hard-wrought good will, kid. With the market that’s propping us up. The burgeoning superpower, and the only one in history that hasn’t invaded another country.

   Tentacles. Maybe they won’t notice or take offence.

9. fnjckg 9

   30 August 2012 at 9:01 am

   J-A G: excellent

   Fiji-a Chinese Naval Base? hee hee-“Race for the Pacific” (again)

   Brendan Horan (now thats a phonetically interesting sir-name) -re CONSCIENCE vote
   “hadn’t given ‘it’ much thought”
   conscience? what conscience? foolish presenter not ‘present’
   but we suffer quite a few ‘presenters’ in our democracy (finger approaching throat, but i just had breakfast)

   Assad-” rebels face inevitable death”
   Chemical Weapons deployed inevitable?

   Motorways-borrow borrow borrow burrow

   Track-maintenance worker redundencies-MADNESS

10. Morrissey 10

    30 August 2012 at 9:53 am

    Weasel Watch
    Thursday 30 August 2012

    Okay, everybody, listen carefully and do exactly as I say.

    1.) Pick up your copy of the New Zealand Herald.

    2.) Open it and look at page A16.

    3.) Look at the advertisement on the bottom half of the page.

    4.) Now ask yourself this question: is it or is it not the most blackly humorous, unintentionally funny advertisement you have ever seen?

    • Carol 10.1

      30 August 2012 at 10:09 am

      I would never PAY for NZ Herald. Looked at it on Press Display.
      :sigh:

      Apt that the headline above it is It’s all downhill from here

      Fitting for one of those beer billboards:

      YOU FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST SPIN DOCTORS

      Williams, Watson, Hosking, Smith, Woodham [images of] Newstalk ZB

      Yeah, right!

      • tc 10.1.1

        30 August 2012 at 12:32 pm

        I liked a comment the other day which applies to ZB’s

        ‘the upper class telling the middle class it’s the lower class’s fault’

        Shock jocks and dog whistlers.

        • Morrissey 10.1.1.1

          30 August 2012 at 1:33 pm

          ‘the upper class telling the middle class it’s the lower class’s fault’

          Actually, in the case of NewstalkZB, it’s more a case of “the Ignorant telling the Bewildered that it’s the Liberals’ fault.”

11. hellonearthis 11

    30 August 2012 at 9:59 am

    WINZ could save a couple off million dollars each year, if only they would do a little Synchronization of there clients, a little time management.
    Sickness beneficiaries have to go to the GP every 3 months to have there benefit renewed.
    And once a year the Sickness beneficiaries also get a full review, which means another GP visit.
    The current system means that once a year a Sickness beneficiary will go to the GP for a 3 month renewal and then, go to the GP again (generally within 3 weeks of just getting there medical certificate updated) for another medical certificate, even though they have a valid one on record that’s not due to expire for another couple of months.
    This costs each Sickness beneficiary around $40 with is refunded by Winz.
    So my point is, if Winz synchronized this Annual medical certificate with the 3 month medical certificate, it would save the state the cost of a medical certificate.
    If there are 59,500 people on a Sickness benefit then performing this would save the Government around $2,380,000 each and every year.

    Not sure if there is a similar issue with invalid beneficiaries but if there is then that could more than double the $2+ million dollars.

    Yes, the GP’s will make less money but will also have less paper to deal with and would be able to cope with an extra 59,500 sick people.

    Note: I don’t want my private information by Paula Benefit or any Winz staff or Ministers.

    Will cross post this to Red Alert and the Greens blog.

    OMG did I just work out a way to save over $2 million dollars a year…

    • weka 11.1

      30 August 2012 at 10:21 am

      “This costs each Sickness beneficiary around $40 with is refunded by Winz.”
       
      I’m not sure that is true. Maybe the rules have changed, but in the past you had to claim the medical fee back on disability allowance. If your DA is already at the maximum then the only way to claim medical fees  is if you get TAS (hardship grant, which is meant to be temporary, capped, and which only pays a proportion of the cost).
       
      I take your point though, and agree there are many inefficiencies in the WINZ system. All the people on SB long term for instance (and being refused Invalid’s), could go on 6 month or even 12 month reviews. 

      • David H 11.1.1

        30 August 2012 at 11:11 am

        Like me I am a long term (3 years) and not really much chance of going back to work I have been refused the Invalids Benefit on the word of a doctor I have never met, who has never even spoken to me let alone examine me, and he seems to know a hell of a lot more about how to cure me, that all the specialists I have seen and have spoken to me don’t know. My medical expenses are worked out by winz, and then divided by 52 and paid that way, so when I go to the doctor its still hard to pay the bill. It would be better if they also paid you the $40 the week of your appointment (even if you had to show your appointment) or they just put it on the card.

    • Uturn 11.2

      30 August 2012 at 10:25 am

      [blockquote]The current system means that once a year a Sickness beneficiary will go to the GP for a 3 month renewal and then, go to the GP again (generally within 3 weeks of just getting there medical certificate updated) for another medical certificate, even though they have a valid one on record that’s not due to expire for another couple of months.[/blockquote]

      Seems tidy on paper, one less vist being “better”, but make sure you check the real life experience of a sickness beneficiary visiting a doctor at any given time which may reveal the opposite. A person may only be able to deal with the stress of a short visit, that deals with only one aspect of an illness at a time and need a pause before being additionally reminded of the administration of their affairs. These people don’t just have a bad case of flu, they have a profound health concern that effects all aspects of their lives. Most doctors these days at least have a piece of paper stuck to the wall of their office that says they are officially concerned at the emotional state of their clients as well as any other aspect.

      Saving money sounds great, but it should not come at the cost of making vulnerable people feel even more out of control of their affairs, or in an extreme, trampling over their human rights because they are “beneficiaries who owe society” i.e. lower class of person. Treating situations that have inherent fragilities from a dollars-and-cents-first-make-the-people-fit-it approach, makes me nervous.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1

        30 August 2012 at 1:46 pm

        Saving money sounds great, but it should not come at the cost of making vulnerable people feel even more out of control of their affairs, or in an extreme, trampling over their human rights because they are “beneficiaries who owe society” i.e. lower class of person.

        It wouldn’t. In fact, it would make the person feel more in control and less like having to jump through hoops. If they have to go every three months to get a doctors certificate plus another every year then the fourth one just becomes the yearly one meaning that the person only has to go four times per year and not five.

        Treating situations that have inherent fragilities from a dollars-and-cents-first-make-the-people-fit-it approach, makes me nervous.

        Um, what? Where’d you get that idea from?

        BTW, HTML for formatting here, not PHP.

        • Uturn 11.2.1.1

          30 August 2012 at 3:07 pm

          Yes you’re right, it wouldn’t, or possibly it would. At least that is now cleared up. I get ideas from understanding the meaning of words.

    • joe90 11.3

      30 August 2012 at 1:52 pm

      The UK solution, if you won’t work for free you’ll be subjected to a work test which in some instances appears to have been fatal.

12. weka 12

    30 August 2012 at 10:20 am

    …

13. fnjckg 13

    30 August 2012 at 10:39 am

    Isaac: MSM-Seven years to the day since Katrina

    7 years, to the day! pretty ‘hairy’

14. golden retriever 14

    30 August 2012 at 11:42 am

    Neil Armstrong and the decay of late capitalism
    http://www.readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/neil-armstrong-and-other-relics-of.html

15. joe90 15

    30 August 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Fracking, denial and tin..

    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/343202/title/The_Facts_Behind_the_Frack

    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/economics-in-denial-by-howard-davies

    http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/67884-the-deadly-tin-inside-your-smartphone

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      30 August 2012 at 2:13 pm

      From your second link:

      This amounts to what we might call an “irrelevance” defense: Finance theorists cannot be held responsible, since no one in the real world pays attention to them!

      Which made me giggle 😈

    • Southern Limits 15.2

      30 August 2012 at 2:23 pm

      Thanks for the links

16. Southern Limits 16

    30 August 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Great video from Richard Heinberg at the Post Carbon Institute

    DON’T WORRY, DRIVE ON: Fossil Fools & Fracking Lies

    “In recent months we’ve seen a spate of articles, reports, and op-eds claiming that peak oil is a worry of the past thanks to so-called “new technologies” that can tap massive amounts of previously inaccessible stores of “unconventional” oil. “Don’t worry, drive on,” we’re told.

    But as Post Carbon Institute Senior Fellow Richard Heinberg asks in this short video, what’s really new here? “What’s new is high oil prices and … the economy hates high oil prices.”

    WE NEED YOUR HELP SHARING THIS VIDEO
    Email the video to everyone you think needs to watch it
    Share it through your social networks
    Send it to your elected officials
    We can fall for the oil industry hype and keep ourselves chained to a resource that’s depleting and comes with ever increasing economic and environmental costs, or we can recognize that the days of cheap and abundant oil (not to mention coal and natural gas) are over.

    Unfortunately, the mainstream media and politicians on both sides of the aisle are parroting the hype, claiming — in Obama’s case — that unconventional oil can play a key role in an “all of the above” energy strategy and — in Romney’s — that increased production of tight oil and tar sands can make North America energy independent by the end of his second term.

    We need your help: Please share this video and help bring a dose of reality to the energy conversation.”

    http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2012-08-28/dont-worry-theres-plenty-oil

    • Lanthanide 16.1

      30 August 2012 at 5:38 pm

      Hahaha, North America!

      Americans will hear that and think “America”. Really it’s Canada, possibly with Mexico thrown in for good obfuscation.

17. Southern Limits 17

    30 August 2012 at 1:55 pm

    NZ has reached “peak coal” according to Solid Energy chief executive Don Elder. There is plenty of coal left in the ground, but it is becoming prohibitively expensive to extract. This is illustrated by yesterdays announcement by Solid Energy of hundreds of job losses.

    “Underground mining was inefficient and “very hard”.

    ”It’s becoming harder, it’s becoming problematic,” he said.

    “After 110 years of mining in New Zealand, the easy coal has gone.”

    New technology was needed to reach the significant amount that was left deep underground, which was why the company was pushing its underground coal gasification and coal seam gas projects, he said.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7575543/Coast-reels-as-mine-closes

    • weka 17.1

      30 August 2012 at 2:44 pm

      So now would be the time to prioritise all coal extraction to projects that build post-carbon resiliency. In NZ.

      “Elder said he was refusing a short-term incentive payment and had taken a 10 per cent reduction in his $1.41 million salary.”

      🙁 

      • Southern Limits 17.1.1

        30 August 2012 at 3:41 pm

        Yeah poor guy right. A $141,000 pay cut and he still makes over one million dollars. I’ll be sure to pass the hat around my friends and family to help support this kiwi battler.

    • mike e 17.2

      31 August 2012 at 1:05 am

      if they know so much why the hell did they buy pike river.

18. Morrissey 18

    30 August 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Some people around here seem to think I make my transcripts up. I don’t. Often, however, they are not verbatim, but hurried transcripts taken down in longhand as I listen to the source of the inanity, whether it be radio or television. Occasionally, though, I’ll transcribe the whole thing. Here’s a real transcript, laboriously taken from an audiotape…

    Larry Williams clashes with Murray Deaker
    Friday 4 February 2003

    Friday afternoon’s little stoush live on air was not the first time these two have brawled like this. On the day of the launch of the Blackguard organisation just five or so months ago, Williams got a sheepish, evasive Deaker to admit that he’d been at the launch of the super-patriotic organisation. “You’re PATHETIC!” snarled Williams. An indignant Deaker wasn’t going to stand for such insolence: “Larry, you never READ anything, you have no idea of what you’re talking about!” he bellowed, and they proceeded to yell at each other for at least three minutes. Later, on his 7 o’clock show, a still upset Deaker played the tape again, presumably to show what a bastard Larry Williams was.

    By the next day, the two pilgarlics had kissed and made up and Deaker was smothering Williams with his legendary flattery: “Larry, THAT is why YOU are the best in the business,” he cooed after Williams had made an unremarkable comment about another matter. But that was then and this is now. Last Friday afternoon, Russell Coutts and Brad Butterworth, the targets of the Blackguard vilification campaign, broke their silence, revealing that it was mainly the shoddy and vacillating management of the trustees that forced them to leave Team New Zealand three years ago. Support for the Alinghi sailors by listeners was swift, indicating widespread suspicion and resentment of the Blackguard organisation and, in particular, of its most strident mouthpiece, Murray Deaker. We present herewith a selection from the last half hour of the Larry Williams
    show of Friday 31 January….

    5:32 p.m.
    LARRY WILLIAMS: I have been involved with Russell and Brad and there’s plenty more there than they released today – that’s all I’m going to say… you’ve just heard jim Farmer QC; you’d have to be a MONKEY, an IDIOT to accept on those terms…

    5:32 p.m.
    MICHAEL LAWS: [commenting on the failure of TVNZ to show the TV interview from Swiss TV which proves that Team NZ and Blackheart were always very close, and never independent] This should be Broadcasting Authority stuff… Gee, the Americas Cup is a nasty piece of work. I’ve never come across a sport that is so much about lawyers, vindictiveness, money and nastiness.

    5:45 p.m.
    [A Blackguard supporter rings in to sling off at Coutts and Butterworth…]

    WILLIAMS: You’re PATHETIC!
    …………………………
    CALLER TIM: I’m sick of hearing certain commentators, who look like Kojak, shooting from the mouth – or screaming from the mouth – and I’ve said all along we’ve never heard the other side of this.

    WILLIAMS: Well we haven’t heard the other side because they haven’t been allowed to tell the other side and yet you must know – let this be clear – they didn’t actually want to TELL the other side. They NEVER wanted to say anything. They just wanted to go at the time and get out and do what they do best, which is sailing boats. Look it has to be pointed out it was Team New Zealand who wanted this kept secret. Now I must also point out that we’re not talking about Team New
    Zealand TODAY, really – we’re talking about Team New Zealand the old trustees, although the new trustees wanted this kept silent. But in the main, we are talking about Coutts and Butterworth’s negotiations with the OLD – let me emphasise that, the OLD – Team New Zealand
    trustees, not the ones we’ve got now.

    CALLER TIM: Yes I understood that from what you said earlier. I’m just surprised people kept on slaying them when they were silent and you – I understood there must have been reasons why they weren’t speaking and you don’t, if you’re fair, have a go at someone unless you’ve heard the other side.

    WILLIAMS: Well, we’ve also got to understand that there will be a lot of people who won’t have a bar of this, they will not believe this, they will NOT want to know, because they’re bigoted. But thanks for your call. Hello, Scott.

    SCOTT: Congratulations! I’d just like to add to what the other person put through to you. We had our doubts, and we’re keen yachties down here in Christchurch – but where does Murray Deaker stand on all this? I notice that he’s been perpetuated [sic!] by his silence. What’s going on?

    WILLIAMS: Well now, hold on, hold on! To be fair to Murray, he’s been on a week’s leave and frankly I don’t – lookm I don’t care WHAT Murray thinks. Murray’s had – Murray has taken his course and I respect what he’s had to say, I don’t believe a WORD of it but I respect his right to have an opinion.

    SCOTT: Fair enough.

    WILLIAMS: But what he thinks about it now, I don’t know. Doesn’t worry me, frankly.

    SCOTT: Hey, thank you for that.

    WILLIAMS: Thanks for your call…. I should point out I’ve only mentioned part of the release and as I said before there is a lot of – no, I’m not going to tease you, we’ll go to a break.

    [ADVERTISING BREAK….]
    5:56 p.m.
    WILLIAMS: Now Murray Deaker is – has called in. I’ve got two minutes Deaks. What’s your main points?

    DEAKER: Well, firstly, I’ve been on holiday so I take exception to that chap’s reference that I’m gutless. Huh! That is ONE thing that I’m not!

    WILLIAMS: But hold on, I clarified that, so –

    DEAKER: The second point that I’d make is this – that you say, and you led Tom – um, the chap Farmer to say that it was an impossible situation –

    WILLIAMS: Yup.

    DEAKER: Larry, it CAN’T have been impossible. Tom Schnackenburg took on the role WITH THOSE CONDITIONS –

    WILLIAMS: No he did NOT!

    DEAKER: He did.

    WILLIAMS: You are talking ABSOLUTE – you are talking –

    DEAKER: He stayed there and –

    WILLIAMS: Murray… MURRAY! YOU ARE TALKING CRAP! He did NOT stay there –

    DEAKER: He stayed there Larry –

    WILLIAMS: Murray! Murray! He did NOT stay there on the same conditions –

    DEAKER: He stayed there Larry under the same conditions. And they got them changed didn’t they.

    WILLIAMS: Whaddya mean – when Coutts and Butterworth announced –

    DEAKER: No, no, they worked those conditions to get them changed because there are two – there are three other people who stayed there as well –
    WILLIAMS: He did NOT stay –
    DEAKER: Reiseley, who was appointed by Coutts and Butterworth –
    WILLIAMS: YOU SEE, YOU DON’T WANT TO LISTEN TO ME. Can… Can I tell you what – have you – have you read the press release? Do you know what a –

    DEAKER: Yes, I’ve read the press release.

    WILLIAMS: He did not stay under the trust that was offered to Coutts and Butterworth. The trust was changed and it took TWO HOURS for that trust to be changed, when the new trust went to the old trust and said: hand it over under these conditions otherwise we’re outa here. THAT’s what happened. So STOP trying to move the story around, Murray!

    DEAKER: But the point is that Schnackenburg stayed. The other guys could have stayed as well Larry and you know that.

    WILLIAMS: Well look –
    DEAKER: They could have worked it –
    WILLIAMS: Hey! –
    DEAKER: SURE they were completely frustrated –
    WILLIAMS: Hey! –
    DEAKER: – and that comes through in their release as well.
    WILLIAMS: HEY!!! MURRAY!!! They could NOT have stayed under the deal that was offered –
    DEAKER: The guys that they had appointed as trustees, namely Norris and, ah, Reiseley and Menzies who you’ve not interviewed yet, and those are the guys that I’ll have on my program tomorrow.
    WILLIAMS: Yeah, GOOD… yeah, GOOD, well I –
    DEAKER: Because you NEED to get some balance into this.
    WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Hey, just like –
    DEAKER: You sounded like a P.R. agent for Alinghi mate.
    WILLIAMS: Yeah well I learned that off you with your sycophantic interview with Dave Walden the other day. I’ve goota go, and I respect your opinion even if you’re wrong. Thanks for your call. It’s now, ah, three to six o’clock here at Newstalk ZB…
    ……………………………………
    [TRANSCRIBED BY WALLIE INGRAM FOR RADIO TRANSCRIPTS LTD, A DIVISION OF DAISYCUTTER SPORTS INC.]

19. gobsmacked 19

    30 August 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Latest Morgan poll out:

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4815/

    Basically no change. So Labour have wasted all the gift-wrapped chances National have offered in the past few weeks, because they were busy going down a dead-end street. It looks like they have slowly backed up the truck (while hoping nobody would notice), and maybe we’ve heard the last of Shearer’s roof-painter.

    It would be good if the Labour leadership said “you were right, we were wrong, and we won’t be taking advice from idiots any more”. It would be good, but unlikely.

    • Bored 19.1

      30 August 2012 at 4:05 pm

      The boy stood on the burning deck……

20. captain hook 20

    30 August 2012 at 3:40 pm

    well nobody is going to take your advice gobsmacked.
    you are just here as an agent provocateur and Labour will be the next government no matter what some poll says today.

    • gobsmacked 20.1

      30 August 2012 at 3:45 pm

      I expect Labour will be (part of) the next government, because they will follow my advice.

      Or do you want Shearer to talk more about his mythical roof-painter? If so, why?

21. Carol 21

    30 August 2012 at 3:47 pm

    (Perhaps stinging from all the criticism of late of him being a NAct lackey), Dunne has refused to support ACT’s proposed budget cap, so the bill won’t proceed….. for now.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7581311/Budget-spending-cap-shelved

    The Government has shelved a cornerstone of its support deal with ACT that would have capped Budget spending after Revenue Minister Peter Dunne refused to back the move.

    Finance Minister Bill English said the planned change had been set aside “at this stage” after consultation with other parties.

    ”The decision has now been made to introduce the spending limit as a stand alone Bill later this term. This will allow for further consultation and more policy work to be completed.”

    But it seems unlikely those talks will be successful, and the move appears to be doomed.

22. Ianmac from Vietnam 22

    30 August 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Funny how little Mr Key knew about the Dotcom affair when such high level Cabinet discussions were happening. No briefing to a PM at all?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10830413

23. William Joyce 23

    30 August 2012 at 4:09 pm

    John Key said our troops had the best of equipment – Link
     
    TV3 say otherwise

    A private security operative working in Afghanistan says the New Zealand military has to ‘beg for, borrow or steal’ equipment and it’s not just Humvees they’re cutting costs on.  
    Jack Waldron, who himself survived an IED explosion, says the New Zealand Government and military officials need to supply troops with better gear or more lives will be lost.
    Waldron spoke frankly with 3 News earlier in the week about the realities of working in a war-zone, in the wake of the recent deaths of five Kiwi soldiers. – link

     
    Regardless of whether we should be in Afghanistan or not, we owe it to our people to equip them properly. And some PM’s should stop lying.

24. Morrissey 24

    30 August 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Is Susan Baldacci a journalist or a shill for illegal killing?
    Thursday 30 August 2012

    Just heard a clearly outraged Susan Baldacci on “The Panel” discussing the revelation that bin Laden was murdered, unarmed, during that illegal U.S. raid into Pakistan last year. But Susan Baldacci was outraged not at the murder, but at the fact the two men broke the code of omerta and actually told the truth.

    Disgusted, I flicked off the following to stand-in host Finlay McDonald….

    from: Morrissey Breen, 4:00 PM

    to: Afternoons

    Dear Finlay,

    Susan Baldacci expressed her astonishment that a couple of Navy Seals have revealed what actually happened in Pakistan; that the killing of bin Laden was the assassination of an unarmed man. “I wouldn’t want to be them,” she said, darkly.

    Surely, as a journalist, she should be applauding these men for actually telling the truth.

    Yours in alarm at the standards at National Radio,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • Vicky32 24.1

      30 August 2012 at 7:04 pm

      Yours in alarm at the standards at National Radio,

      Good on you, Morrissey! Baldacci sounds like a truly horrible woman…

      • Alice 24.1.1

        30 August 2012 at 11:35 pm

        Miss Vicky, please see your messages.

25. gobsmacked 25

    30 August 2012 at 4:12 pm

    A MUST-read … David Shearer talks (at last) about the roof-painter.

    These are his own words. Not the MSM twisting them. This is the Labour leader speaking, explaining, justifying – or trying to.

    Scroll down to the Shearer transcript at the bottom, and draw your own conclusions …

    http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/the-man-on-roof.html#addendum

    (Hat-tip: Giovanni Tiso, Bryce Edwards)

    • weka 25.1

      30 August 2012 at 8:12 pm

      So does Shearer have an actual point? I couldn’t see it.

      QoT covered this as well

      http://ideologicallyimpure.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/david-shearer-lies-about-his-own-dogwhistle/ 

26. Draco T Bastard 26

    30 August 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Good post on Auckland Transport Blog about our oil production, importation and use. It shows clearly that if we want to become more competitive then we need to get off using oil for transport, I.E, can the RONS.

27. Bored 27

    30 August 2012 at 4:36 pm

    A short while ago Prism indicated he was going off the Standard…he has not been here today. I would welcome his presence and wise words. Come back.

    • William Joyce 27.1

      30 August 2012 at 9:46 pm

      +1

    • prism 27.2

      2 September 2012 at 11:22 am

      Bored 27
      Thanks. I was visiting Christchurch and a certain red-haired enchantress aged nearly two. I have been thinking. (Quote from Richard Prebble. And I am about as popular with some as Richard Prebble is with me – not. Also I have been reading Terry Pratchett one of the Discworld which has put any pretensions I had into perspective.)

      And I thought I like The Standard but I haven’t time to indulge in lengthy or continual regurgitation of similar thoughts,. I want to find a way to join with others, as I have time and can make time available, who want to work with other good-hearted positive people with standards and also a bit of the skeptic thrown in, to build a better future.

      So I won’t waste time entering into comments threads with my opinions but will reap the great benefit of finding access to good links provided from here, and also provide to the Standard any that I think make some point that seems worthwhile to me and hopefully others who want to BABF.

28. Te Reo Putake 28

    30 August 2012 at 4:38 pm

    I put the latest Roy Morgan into the electoral seat calculator. Assuming the Maori party get 3 seats, UF, ACT and Mana 1 each, the current government can only muster 59 votes. Labour and the Greens together have 56, Mana 1 and NZF holds the balance of power with 6. 
     
    It’s a good thing Winston isn’t interested in the baubles of office, eh?
     

29. Gosman 29

    30 August 2012 at 5:16 pm

    I do so enjoy it when Socialist policies work out exactly as predicted.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2012/08/venezuelas-oil-industry?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/upinsmoke

    • Murray Olsen 29.1

      30 August 2012 at 6:49 pm

      Meanwhile, in Communist California:
      

    • Morrissey 29.2

      30 August 2012 at 7:39 pm

      I do so enjoy it when Socialist policies work out exactly as predicted.

      Save the schadenfreude, my bewildered friend. Surely even an ignoramus like you can see that site is irrationally biased against the Venezuelan president, who has committed the grave crime of being a genuinely popular politician.

      If only he was a dictator, with a Somoza-sized body count instead of a democrat who has exactly no blood on his hands; then you’d approve of him, no doubt.

    • Mr Burns 29.3

      30 August 2012 at 8:19 pm

      Yes I hear that Muslim President of the US’s Socialist policies are causing exactly the carnage that was predicted. Ordinary people are getting healthcare. They are living longer. They are not losing all of their assets to rapacious financiers so they can finance medical treatment.

      There is something very wrong with the US. 

    • mike e 29.4

      31 August 2012 at 1:24 am

      goose sounds similar to bp horizon or exxon valdez such cynicism frakin cynicism goose.

    • mike e 29.5

      31 August 2012 at 1:30 am

      Rena and Shipley cuts to maritime safety Joyce forgetting to update insurance, pike river scf goldman saching of world governments to the trillions
      goose your full of sludge .
      Maybe it could be to do with embargo’s on oil equipment from the US

      • Morrissey 29.5.1

        31 August 2012 at 6:22 am

        “Goose” is simply an ignoramus. End of story.

30. Vicky32 30

    30 August 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Vi saluto in volo! That means I am in a tearing hurry, and don’t have time to see whether anyone else has covered this – but it’s doing my head in!
    The NZ police are madly enthusiastic about using drones here. Apparently, in cahoots with the FBI, they’ve already been playing with them.
    It’s horrifying – to say the least!
     

    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      30 August 2012 at 7:08 pm

      yeah well the judgement of police bosses in the last year or two have been seriously lacking. There is nothing in the US way of doing things that we want in this country.

    • Draco T Bastard 30.2

      30 August 2012 at 8:44 pm

      All depends upon how they are used. Probably cheaper run than a helicopter and no worse from a legal/moral standpoint.

      • Carol 30.2.1

        30 August 2012 at 8:48 pm

        They claim it’ll just be used for some searches…. but once they have those machines/

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7582496/Police-mull-eyes-in-the-sky

        New Zealand police have used the drones only once, to canvass the area where the body of Wellington woman Sofia Athanassiou was found in July.

        Police used a drone from a commercial company to search Mt Victoria in that case, a spokesman said.

        While the machines have been seen as a crime-fighting tool, there are concerns about their pervasive nature.

        Drew told TV3 News that New Zealand police were too busy to be monitoring the general public from the sky.

        “We don’t have the time to go spy on people for no good reason,” he said.

        Well, yes, but they have in the past decided they had “good reasons” for spying on people who were politically active…. was grey power one of those groups?

        • Vicky32 30.2.1.1

          31 August 2012 at 5:08 pm

          but once they have those machines

          Thanks, Carol!
          Very informative…

      • Colonial Viper 30.2.2

        30 August 2012 at 8:51 pm

        yeah until they weaponise the drones.

        http://rt.com/usa/news/us-domestic-drones-armed-090/

        Or fit them with AI sensors to read number plates, ID faces, warrantlessly track and follow individuals, listen into conversations, spy into bedrooms using far infra red etc.

        • Jackal 30.2.2.1

          30 August 2012 at 9:51 pm

          I think they probably do all of those things already… The smaller and cheaper drones will just allow them to do it on a larger scale. When exactly investigative work ends and invasive voyeurism begins shouldn’t in my opinion be a decision left up to the police.

          Over 80% on this stuff poll said that the Search and Surveillance Bill was a worrying invasion of their privacy. That bill pretty much gives the police the right to spy on people in any way they see fit.

          Whatever happened to good old fashioned policing and getting the community on your side?

          • Draco T Bastard 30.2.2.1.1

            30 August 2012 at 10:09 pm

            Definitely need some strict rules about their use and, unfortunately, the strict rules that the police operate under have been systematically lessened over time. I think we’ve forgotten that a state where the police have no checks on them is essentially anti-democratic.

    • joe90 30.3

      30 August 2012 at 10:44 pm

      Technology & the Future of Violence

      How should our defense strategy evolve in a world of easily accessible mini-drones, lethal nanobots, and DIY warfare?

31. joe90 31

    30 August 2012 at 7:54 pm

    There is nothing in the US way of doing things that we want in this country.

    They’ve adopted this tactic.

    Related: http://www.snitching.org/

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1

      30 August 2012 at 8:44 pm

      Who’s adopted that tactic?

    • joe90 31.2

      30 August 2012 at 8:51 pm

      Who’s adopted that tactic?

      Anecdotally, our coppers.

      • fnjckg 31.2.1

        30 August 2012 at 9:52 pm

        great links Joe thankyou

32. Herodotus 32

    30 August 2012 at 7:56 pm

    It appears we have another Waka jumper within parliament
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7579040/MPs-poised-to-vote-on-alcohol-bill
    im Groser (N)
    Nathan Guy (N)
    Kevin Hague (L)
    Tau Henare (N)
    Chris Hipkins (L)
    Parekura Horomia (L)

    Perhaps the leadership of Labour have worked out a successful strategy… head hunt the best of the other parties, hopefully trade a few of theirs in exchange. Next Banksie will be wearing red and calling all of us “brothers” 😉

33. Bored 33

    30 August 2012 at 8:28 pm

    On Campbell the txt poll was 4 to 1 in favour of raisng the drinking age to 20. A very well meaning man who picks up the peices from alcohol abuse spoke strongly in favour of raising the age. A young man wise beyond his years said all you would do was put off the abuse of alcohol by 2 years and they would get it anyway.

    All I heard was the standard Kiwi punative approach to a problem.

34. fnjckg 34

    30 August 2012 at 9:58 pm

    The Post and Post-script on “how they voted” was densely packed full of revealing information

    re politics of change: mercy triumphs over judgement with the NT
    or for those who prefer gold and Jewels-compassion moderation humility

    Welcome the PRC on the Way round
    (though there will be much wailing and gnashing)(u knew gnashing was coming did u)

    Let no one deceive you with Empty words

35. millsy 35

    30 August 2012 at 10:40 pm

    Good news — the government has dropped the spending cap.

    • mike e 35.1

      31 August 2012 at 1:37 am

      grosser being put forward for top job at WTO what a dopey idea.

36. Draco T Bastard 36

    30 August 2012 at 11:06 pm

    It seems that the rich are looking for new areas to expand in:

    “What is striking about the recovery, growth, and expansion of the world’s billionaires is how dependent their accumulation of wealth is based on pillage of state resources; how much of their fortunes are based on neo-liberal policies which led to the takeover at bargain prices of privatized public enterprises . . . that the state—not the market—plays the essential role in facilitating the greatest concentration and centralization of wealth in world history . . . The sources of billionaire wealth are, at best, only partially due to ‘entrepreneurial innovations.’ ”

    Yep, NZ is definitely being colonised and this government is at the forefront in assisting that colonisation.

    • Draco T Bastard 36.1

      30 August 2012 at 11:36 pm

      This is the unfairness that Shearer should be trying to explain to the populace:

      She quotes one woman at a dinner party complaining that though she made $20 million in the prior year, she was disgusted that after taxes it would be only $10 million. It seemed like theft to her.

      Unfortunately he, just like the RWNJs, is wailing on the poor.

      • Colonial Viper 36.1.1

        30 August 2012 at 11:50 pm

        If she paid $10M in taxes out of $20M income she really needs to fire her accountants. Because they are the ones stealing from her.

37. mike e 37

    30 August 2012 at 11:57 pm

    your right CV top company rate is 28% that means $5.6 million
    personal tax 33% $6.6million.

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