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Open mike 30/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:06 am, August 30th, 2014 - 80 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

80 comments on “Open mike 30/08/2014 ”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Judith Collins, the gift that keeps on giving.

    Garner joins the chorous of Bennett acolytes.

    Adam Bennett muscles in on Pete George’s territory and finds it abandoned. The larder is full. The fire is going. Adam has a good feed and puts his feet up.

    🙂

  2. disturbed 3

    Why are opposition Parties not pursuing the MSM media to get their messages and policies out there, as administrators were asking them to do?

    Blogs were spending most of the time concentrating on Slatergate for two weeks every day, and some strongly suggested we now concentrate on discussing opposition parties policies so why are we still not hearing about Opposition Parties policies to discuss our views on?

    Is this because the MSM are completely failing to give adequate time to opposition parties?

    This while every news broadcast virtually all we hear is Key whining about other parties policies, and not much else.

    We believe the MSM must begin time slot political time breaks to give all opposition parties informational opportunities to get their messages of policies directed at the electorate out so the people can hear what they are.

    Take this Saturday morning 30/8/14 for example,
    I turn first to RNZ, and nothing on Policics, then go to TVNZ nothing there, except for The Nation scheduled on TV3 a private channel so nothing on politics at all on our so called public broadcaster?

    Is this the election we are having when we are not having an election, or Nat’s way of shutting interest down among voters?

  3. Apologies if this has been commented on before but I was interested to hear at the formal launch of the National Party’s campaign in Manukau, an almost manic John Key, shout :

    ‘Breaking news, Ritchie McCaw’s texted and says ‘Yes you can”.’

    In light of the Rugby News cover a while back, is this an indication that McCaw is formally backing the National Party or has TeamKey just co-opted him and the AB brand?

  4. The lag in posts appearing is a bit annoying. I’d probably have spotted my error in my Open Mike post last night (which was caused by being distracted by my partner loudly expressing astonishment at Stuart SMITH’s ineptitude at the Hurunui electorate debate) and corrected it but the lag meant I didn’t get the chance. So I inadvertently slandered poor Stuart Nash – whose name is unfortunately fixed in my memory by virtue of Simon Lusk having described him as an ‘exceptionally gifted politician’.

  5. Paul 7

    Brilliant article by Nigel Latta

    His 10 points
    People really do care about other people
    We don’t talk enough about the really important things
    There are dark shapes swirling around under the water
    People who should know better seem to ignore the science with hardly a backward glance.
    There is more cause for hope than ever before.
    The bad guys fight dirty
    We are further apart now than ever before
    We’re hungry for leadership
    Television can be meaningful
    Things can be better

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316443

    If you haven’t watched his TV series , please do and encourage everyone you know to watch it!
    All NZers should watch it.

    It’s on TVNZ on demand.

    Topics covered
    1. Inequality
    2. Alcohol
    3. Child abuse
    4. Prison
    5. Sugar …not yet screened

  6. Keith ross 8

    It is very suspicious that there is nothing on the state channels. The tactics that the nats are employing are straight from the Republican play book. Turn off as many voters as possible. The right can not win on policies or the popular vote. They know that and through the stacking of the public service their tactics are proving to be very effective. John really shows his American side with so many of his ideas straight out of the Republican party.i was shocked to see the blantent use of this after returning from living in the states for many years. Not only are they lacking in any original ideas they are taking the worst of the American concepts. Hurry up and return to your Republican buddies john.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      Not only are they lacking in any original ideas they are taking the worst of the American concepts.

      The US has done a hell of a lot of research over the years on why people react the way that they do to external stimuli. Those lessons are then used by the US Republican’s to produce manipulative advertising and word grouping, the effects noted and refined. That knowledge is then exported to other conservative parties around the world. There is, effectively, only one conservative party in the world and it’s dominated by the US.

      • KJS0ne 8.1.1

        So succinctly put Draco. “There is only one conservative party in the world and it’s dominated by the US” that’s one helluva quotable.

        • crocodill 8.1.1.1

          Not surprisingly I’m not convinced. What “we” are asked to believe is that “The Republicans” or whoever the bad guys are, have the inside scoop on human motivations, a direct line to the sub-conscious; that is, there is really only one type of us and we are easily controlled. Now I’m not saying there aren’t people who are easily led or who fit the stereotype, but why then do people like you, me and the rest of the resistors exist untouched, despite our diverse backgrounds and conditioning? Do you suggest we all just give up? Why aren’t I immediately a possum in Key’s headlights? Why did I not see a couple of guys paddling a National boat and think, wow, that is soooo me yet strangely I don’t know why? Why aren’t I out right now buying the latest widget I was told to buy via email this morning? No makey the sense. As someone famous once said, it only takes one exception to disprove a scientific proof.

          Just yesterday I learned that extensive effort and money has been put into the music recording studio to make sure whatever we hear on the radio or buy on CD or DVD is at 440kHz. This is a recent thing apparently. Before that it was 432kHz. There was research that 440kHz “overpowered” the ear drum with “sound waves” rather than harmonised with the natural rhythms of ancient music styles. There was/is a movement to return to 432Khz.

          Now excuse me if I’ve been brain-washed by the music industry, but I know what Public Enemy were talking about (at least in so far as to the reasons why I’m not invited to their block party) same with Disposible Heroes of Hiphoprisy, Arrested Development, NWA, Mos Def etc etc etc. Then start on Fugazi, Dead Kennedys, Henry Rollins, Tori Amos, Juliana Hatfield cough Midnight Oil *cough, Pulp, Oasis, Blur, Gorillaz, Beastie Boys, Queens of the Stone Age, Soundgarden, Rage Against the Machine, Dinosaur Jnr, Guided By Voices… blah blah blah all these Bands have heavy political commentary/motivations involved. I was way off the “easily controlled” range even before I knew it existed, despite 440kHz, and this is the tame stuff. This music was no more or less powerful than listening to, say, a cruddy old recording of CCR or Country Joe and the Fish. What you’re asking me to believe is that I am powerless in the face of those tricky scientists. Why? How?

          Of course there is another angle too, that the reality those bands present is a confined space in itself. I got that too. the message I got didn’t include that they were all there was, and my life was not theirs – quite obviously – even though, if I could take you back, everyone and everything else thought they owned me or could tell me what was up.

          So no. To be convinced, I need to see proof that I or anyone else is powerless in the face of what “The Republicans” or John’s friends know about me, that I don’t. Prove to me I want to be John Key. Prove to me I want to uncritically pursue the aims of white culture over my own conscience. Good luck.

          • crocodill 8.1.1.1.1

            To clarify what 440kHz did to a person: it made them anxious, move fast rather than slow, find things outside themselves to fix inner problems, lends them to addictions etc. Since I’m the only case in my study, I’ve lived fast, “successful”, anxious, slow and quiet, so slow people would say “any slower you’d be in a coma” so slow I’m been called the proverbial “scum” et al. I’ve gone the full range and if anything I’m less easily controlled by others.

            440khz: I’m immune, you might be too.
            The Republican research: I’m immune, you might be too.

            If we are, why, who or where are these people who aren’t? And why don’t the Left use the same Republican research?

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.2

            What “we” are asked to believe is that “The Republicans” or whoever the bad guys are, have the inside scoop on human motivations, a direct line to the sub-conscious; that is, there is really only one type of us and we are easily controlled.

            Watch this documentary.

            The information is readily available and is even used to get people to continue to play video games (Especially MMOs). Like all information it just is but people put it to different uses and some of those uses are are simply immoral.

            • Rich 8.1.1.1.2.1

              Democrats are not exactly a party of the poor either, in fact the antipathy to the elites in the US tends to come from the right rather than the left in the US. We need to go past this left/right dichotomy if we are to win this war that has been declared on us.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Agreed, both major parties in the US rule for the rich and not the people. The same is, slowly, happening here as well and we need to stop and reverse it before it goes any further.

    • aerobubble 8.2

      Are you tuned out, turned off by the election, then you need to vote. Vote our incumbents is the best way of destabilizing those who think turning you off is good for them, and also lazy politicians who dont worry about your vote. Vote them out, get their attention.

  7. anker 9

    Just thought I would follow up on an early comment on Open Mike about Dirty Politics.

    If anyone living in Wellington can’t afford a copy and is keen to read the book, please post a comment. I am happy to loan my copy out!

  8. ianmac 10

    Just read Nigel Latta’s “Ten things I learned,” while making the series. Succinct and heartening. Well worth a read. For example he sums up the political issue:

    1. We are further apart now than ever before

    Elections are won and lost in the middle, so politicians play to the middle. The left can count on the left, and the right will always have the right, but the middle is where governments stand or fall. So they play to the middle. The problem is that the middle has lost touch with the bottom. There are a lot of people out there who think poor people are lazy, people in prison are all bad buggers, and anyone who wants to make something of themselves can. I hope this series has helped people to see that these things aren’t necessarily true. It’s important for all of us to look after all of us.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316443

    • greywarbler 10.1

      It’s hard to believe that people would fall for these old cliches about the poor. They have been said since we first came out of the trees. If people are still repeating them, it is a hell of a failure in education about our culture by parents, and formal education on civics which would examine the use of cliches and slogans in preventing honest thought and enquiry by the individual.

  9. disturbed 11

    Yes Keith,
    I spent 20yrs plus in Can/US and saw this also, since Watergate.

    Most media both TV and Radio Channels used to be regional when I first went there in 1968 but by 1978 a lot of media was becoming corporate interests.
    Then we began to witness the similarity of news coverage between them all except for Public service Television.

    We lost our regional voice, and any traces of any Central Government persuasion was lost entirely as we see here.

    Welcome to privatisation Corporatisation of N.Z.

    All opposition should now unite and force an immediate royal commission into the corruption of our media by Government.

    • aerobubble 11.1

      This morning Kim Hill show pointed out that more of our economy was finance industry that the UK’s!!!! Imagine now why the MSM is flooded with money and where it comes from. Hell, why manufacture when you can buy and sell assets thanks to the artificial risk premium of doing business in NZ. Strangely being more invested in the financial industry naturally makes a nation more risky! not less.

      Another interesting point. Was how globalization is making nations more equal, but individually within nations citizens were becoming more unequal. This should not be surprising really, because in order to trade globally, and so create the means by which information and money is able to equalize the worlds economy, its often done by undermining and accentuating local inequality. Take housing, globalizing the source of capital decreases the buying power of the local citizens and accentuates the natural inequality that always exists. Government who serve their populations know that they must counter the huge power of the global market to cause huge inequality. Take China, Russia, US, Oil states, seem incapable of keeping a few grow infinity rich, whereas smaller states with rich democracies have no trouble passing citizen protecting legislative backstops.

      And this reflects the political psychology of their establishments. Its about where we place the membrane separating money talk from our personal, community and family life. Whtye wants us to think, even when we’re on the dunny how much the price of a toilet roll is. He wants money, the route of all evil, invested in every aspect of our life. You could say he’s a money whore, no scruples, government must get entirely out of the way, even incest could abstractly be monetized.
      Key, a keen merchant of money, you could say world class whore of world brokering, keenly knows he needs to separate himself from the emotions of a unclean life of money, for purely to keep plying the trade of money, for sure. As we all now are awaking to where its taken us, global enslavement where our owners will live on the other side of the world.

      When we let them buy the MSM, when we let the likes of the right wing agitator that brings us our late night news, pushing his latest conquest of a large extremely expensive car, like our cars now are parts of our money life. To most, cars are tools for getting around, for a few they are extensions of their personality, and for even fewer they are the venal vibrators of their money whore lifestyles, extenders for their pathetic needy little persona’s in a world where the more money they have the more they are living, the more respected, the more powerful they must be.
      Surely they such men cant be that sad, but yes, its true, they can’t take the money with them when they go, their super rich heros are giving it away, the likes of Gates and Buffet, because they aren’t the money, they are real people, not buffoons who merely trade in their money whoring.

      Now please don’t get me wrong, its not that we all do money whore form time to time, its just its kept at the garden gate and not let in. And therein lies the problem with NZ, the whores are let into our homes every night, the MSM are filled out with money whores who every desperate moment is necessary used to pushing themselves to whore. TV used to be balanced, a few money whores at the margins of the TV schedule, necessary relief to give a fair fiscal overview of the current financial goings on. Now even ad have invaded our most loved tv series and news pushes brands of singers, etc.

      Even the pissed up puffed up ranks and file must sell themselves off by keeping within Slaters framing and narrative, less they are seen as unattractive and are dropped from the brothel.
      We are all dirtier after thirty years of revolutionary conservatism.

  10. Paul 12

    Amazing article by Nigel Latta today.
    Nigel Latta: Ten things I’ve learned
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316443

    If you haven’t seen his TV series, you should….
    http://tvnz.co.nz/nigel-latta/s1-ep5-video-6052810

  11. ianmac 13

    Michele Hewitson interview with Nicky Hager. Another great read. Puts Nicky into context the strange things that the Right say about him. The only jarring note was that she would include a negative quote from Matthew Hooten.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316298

  12. Belladonna 14

    +100

  13. karol 15

    So the cowardly covert, smear machine manipulators have opened a new billboard front. Trotter and Idiot Savant/NRT are onto it.

    Looks like billboards from Federated Farmers and an ACT front man.

    • blue leopard 15.1

      That is awful

      Having just finished reading Merchants of Doubt by Oreskes and Conway, it is clear that the pamphlet/emailers are relying on uninformed people in order to make their point.

      The example of DDT is covered in that book and the line the emailers push was very much part of the move to create doubt in peoples’ minds re the validity of the results of sound scientific processes. In short, DDT had lost effectiveness due to having been used so widely – the line pushed that many lives were lost from banning it is false.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        Of course it’s false – the right can’t win by telling the truth and so they lie and, as you say, hope that ignorance wins out.

    • tc 15.2

      Wondered when that front would be launched.

      whatever it takes, no stoop to low and it will probably be relentless till 20/9 as theres plenty of resources to be deployed for such measures.

    • yeshe 15.3

      Hopefully, in this current climate with suspicion everywhere, they will be outed and dumped in their own manure.

    • crocodill 15.4

      Those are funny, or should be, if they didn’t accurately reflect certain mind-sets. “Labour means 30% Greens.” I like to try to keep my party cheerleading at arm’s distance, and I suggest no one puts their trust in the Greens for the sake of it, but I was kind of hoping that “Labour” would this time mean roughly 85% Greens.

  14. veutoviper 16

    If you have not already read it, I strongly recommend reading Wayne Hope’s post yesterday on TDB

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/29/democracy-and-cancer-a-critical-analysis-of-dirty-politics/

    IMHO it is an excellent analysis of how we have got to where we are at present in respect of the situation outlined in “Dirty Politics’ and current media/public broadcasting etc. It cuts across many of the recent posts and comments on TS, including those at 1 and 2 above.

  15. Dan1 17

    Has push polling started yet? If you get called as to political preferences, sound a little ambivalent… not sure.. etc. You may get a followup call with “Are you sure? ” “Really? I’m surprised!” when you mention parties not to their liking.
    The Brethren tried it an election or two ago. I am sure it will surface again.

  16. Karen 18

    There’s a bit of weekend reading over on Daily Blog for those concerned about the state of the media. Wayne Hope has written a thorough analysis with a historical background plus a vision for a better future.
    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/29/democracy-and-cancer-a-critical-analysis-of-dirty-politics/

  17. aerobubble 19

    Whyte, astounds everyone, by arguing that citizens aren’t
    being offered enough money to get them out of bed. We
    could assume its because bankers are overpaid, or that
    the economy is mismanaged to produce under and unemployment,
    but its most likely that stupid people want to impose the
    authoritarian vision of men like Whyte that government isn’t
    interventionists enough, imposing even more on citizens is great
    for profits of fatcats, with the rally cry, why aren’t they slaves yet!
    Why haven’t we turned the dregs into slaves! They obviously listless
    and lazy. They deserve enslavement, only then will they standup
    for themselves Whtye believes.

  18. blue leopard 20

    There is a buzz on twitter just now, the PM has called a press release at 12.30 and the journos are speculating Collins might be resigning/being thrown out.

    • yeshe 20.1

      or simply ‘stood down’ as suggested by CrayCray on Nation this am …

    • ianmac 20.2

      Sad for Judith to go. She has been excellent for the Left! Poor old John has a prickly thorn in his side. (And Pullar is taking a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner.)

      • blue leopard 20.2.1

        Yes, since the fuss and excitement has died down, I feel like saying ‘Give ’em an Oscar’.

        I think we have been utterly played. This is a big strawman game that aims to remove the apparent problem and allows the real one (severe corruption inside National circles) to carry on unobstucted.

        In other words I believe Winston was on the money with what he said.

        Am very very unhappy about the state of our democracy. 🙁

        Those who have money and power in this country have just played a seriously cynical game today.
        Give ’em an Oscar and then throw them in jail and throw away the key is what I conclude from today’s events.

  19. disturbed 21

    Thanks Karol, Chris Trotter blog, he is onto it good on Chris I always thought he would shine.

    Why are the right continuing with dirty politics?
    Could it be the real poll results are stark that they continue this smear campaign process, and will the public blame shift to right being evil smear kings not the left ?

    Will we ever know the true poll results as several are saying after being canvassed by these private pollsters that the questions asked are loaded or they are a series of questions like us and then told they don’t need us ?

    Is the polling designed to be used to show effects of their changing election tactics?

    If tis is the case then this is manipulation using the population or corruption of our democracy.

    Please opposition, OUR REQUEST; coercion.

    CALL FOR A OPPOSITION FORUM TO REQUEST AN URGENT REVIEW OF CORRUPT- COERCION OF OUR ELECTION POLLING PROCESS.

  20. PM holding a press conference at 12:30. Journos on Twitter saying Collins is resigning.

    • Dialey 22.1

      The only problem with that is he will go up in the estimation of the public again and be seen as showing true leadership and cleansing out the rot

      • Clemgeopin 22.1.1

        True that, but I think there will be plenty of internal friction.
        There is every chance of those 17 forced out MPs and the different possible camps within the caucus, English camp, Joyce camp, Collins camp, Key’s camp, Slater-Lusk camp, Bennet’s camp coming out, exposing and doing political mud wrestling in private and in public. And then there are all the party electorate officials up in arms about all the ‘Dirty Politics’ stuff that affected them all. Besides, I think many voters have serious doubts now about the ‘innocence’ and ‘clean good guy’ image of Key. The reality is that National=Key! Without Key, Nats are not much! I think National have lost this election. Their last chance is Winston!

        • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1.1

          Apparently so:

          New Zealand First Tauranga candidate Clayton Mitchell said his party was now in a strong position: “We are now in a position to negotiate with National and get what we are after and that is what is best for New Zealand.”

          And that means that voting NZ1st and the Conservatives is a vote for this corrupt government.

  21. RedBaronCV 23

    And the herald suggests that Judith Collins is resigning

  22. greywarbler 24

    Radionz interviews and news this morning joined up some seemingly unconnected matters.
    * A Waikato dairy farmer has been fined nearly $50,000 for discharging effluent into drains that led to a river, and then asking inspectors how much it would cost to make his prosecution problem disappear.
    Mr Singh asked the inspectors not to report it to their supervisors and to take water samples in a manner that would not show any environmental effect.
    http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=192798&fm=psp,tsf
    (Reports of embedded corruption in India would indicate that it is likely that people from that culture operating in business here would adopt similar behaviours. This tendency to follow learned behaviours applies of course to any new New Zealander and has to be considered, understood and watched for.)
    * On Radionz there was a figure given that 2 billion people in the world do not have toilets. And there is an item below in which a soil scientist talks about the value of urine and faeces properly treated as fertiliser.
    * This is a link for a very interesting clip about a long trip on a motorcycle which gave much insight into the countries visited. http://www.c90adventures.co.uk/news/76-india
    The traveller found India to be one of the dirtiest. He shows in his videos women defecating in the fields. (I have learned that the Untouchable people in some areas are not allowed to use public toilets, and there is a time set aside for them to use the fields, possibly once a day early in the morning. So extending less respect for their needs and humanity than given to cows is acceptable in India. People with such warped attitudes if setting up businesses here have to be watched carefully.)

    On destruction and deterioration of our precious environment, and infinitely precious drinking water.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional
    Risks to water quality limits – report
    Residents are being asked to pick from three council proposals relating to the Waikato River.
    Modelling for the Environment Ministry shows some major water catchments will fail new water quality standards if planned dairy conversions go ahead.

    Auckland water quality costly problem
    A warning sign near Meola Creek in Auckland.
    Half of Auckland’s fresh waterways are too polluted to use and future generations will face a multi-billion dollar bill to clean up, according to environmental managers.

    These sound interesting for people interested in the money system and soil and food systems.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday
    8:15 John Lanchester
    Lanchester JohnBritish journalist and author John Lanchester is the author of award-winning novels, including The Debt to Pleasure, Mr Phillips, Fragrant Harbour, and Capital (which he spoke about on Saturday Morning in July 2012). He wrote about the financial crisis in the 2010 book, Whoops! Why Everyone Owes Everyone and No One Can Pay, and his new book is How to $p€ak Mone¥: What the Money People Say – and What They Really Mean (Faber & Faber, ISBN: 978-0-571-30982-5).

    9:05 Stephen Nortcliff
    Stephen NortcliffStephen Nortcliff is Emeritus Professor of Soil Science at Reading University, UK, was Secretary General of the International Union of Soil Sciences from 2002 to 2010, and was instrumental in making 2015 the UN International Year of Soils. Since retirement, Professor Nortcliff has been working with the charity Wherever the Need, which aims to provide sanitation for households and schools in parts of India and Africa using compost toilets. He is one of the guest speakers at Future Food for the Planet (AUT, 30 August at 12:00), an event at World Science Week New Zealand, in Auckland (25 August to 3 September).

  23. yeshe 25

    So Winston has proved his proof after all. Sadly, it would clear the way for him to work in coalition with National because they will appear to be all cleaned up now ?

    And anyone know anything more about this that is supposedly causing her resignation .. in Herald now …

    “Collins’ resignation comes after evidence emerged in the past 24 hours of her role in moves to discredit SFO boss Adam Feeley.”

  24. Clemgeopin 26

    Watch the internal blood letting within National that will get unleashed now.
    You haven’t seen nothing yet!

    Bye Nats. Bye ACT. Bye Dunne. Bye Banks!

    You are the past. Cunliffe led Labour government is the future!
    For a better fairer New Zealand!

    • yeshe 26.1

      Indeed ! Now, what if one of the 17 paid-$330K-to-leave Nats would come forward with all the details ..

      And whaledump is due home from Vanuatu … or wherever he has pretended to be …

  25. Keith Ross 27

    Whyte is just echoing the classical economical theorists of the late 19th century who thought that workers were inherently lazy and need to be threatened and yelled at to get them to do anything.They also thought that managers had inherent organizing and intellectual qualities that workers could never hope to understand. Workers were only good for physical labor and were incapable of self organizing or self managing. Like the Act party these theories have fallen in to disrepute and no educated person would embrace their outdated ideas. Thank god they won’t have any influence in the next govt.

  26. yeshe 28

    and if anyone knows a livestream of the media call, pse can you post it ? thx.

    • yeshe 28.1

      Looks like there will be a TV3 News Special with Gower and Lisa Owen … ..

      • Once Was Tim 28.1.1

        I think everyone’s at the vege market yeshe – wait for the flood! Did you note btw how Patrick Gower is now beginning to see his futire flash before his eyes and is now being rather more sympathetic towards the non-dogma view?

  27. Once Was Tim 29

    Unexpected news conference shortly …. significant…
    A resignation perhaps? Key or Collins – either is OK by me

  28. Morrissey 30

    LIARS OF OUR TIME

    No. 42: John Key

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “We’ve been given a tremendous gift tonight, the trust and goodwill of New Zealanders, and I do not take that trust for granted.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    —John Key, victory speech on election night, Saturday 26 November 2011

    More liars….
    No. 41 Richard Prebble: “What I do know is that John will consider everything. He’s an honorable man….”
    No. 40 Colin Craig: “I’m interested in raising the level of debate.”
    No. 39 George W. Bush: “We will be standing with the people of Afghanistan and Iraq until their hopes for freedom and liberty are fulfilled.”
    No. 38 Jeremy Hansen: “I read a great column by Paul Thomas in the Herald….”
    No. 37 Alan Seay: “You know, we respect the rights of people to protest….”
    No. 36 Paul Dykzeul: “No we won’t be changing the Listener; it’s got a terrific editor….”
    No. 35 Mark Jennings: “I think Paul’s a bright guy and he will be able to bring a discipline to his performance….”
    No. 34 Willie Jackson: “I thought we’d been sensitive with her yesterday….”
    No. 33 Supt. Bill Searle: “I think what’s happened here is the police officers have done their very best….”
    No. 32 Sonny-Bill Williams: “It’s good to get the win over Papua-New Guinea, a strong Papua-New Guinea side, aahhhh….”
    No. 31 John Palino: “Suggestions that I am somehow orchestrating some grand right-wing conspiracy to unseat Len after the election are so wrong…”
    No. 30 Alan Dershowitz: “I will give $10,000 to the PLO if you can find a historical fact in my book that you can prove to be false.”
    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    No. 28 John Kerry: “…we are especially sensitive, Chuck and I, to never again asking any member of Congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence.”
    
No. 27 Lyse Doucet: “I am there for those without a voice.”
    
No. 26 Sam Wallace: “So here we are—Otahuhu. It’s just a great place to be, really.”


    No. 25 Margaret Thatcher: “…no British government involvement of any kind…with Khmer Rouge…”


    No. 24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    


No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”
    


No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    


No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    


No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    


No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”


    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”



    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”



    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”



    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    


No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    
No. 13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    




No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    


No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”



    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    


No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    


No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”



    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”




    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”




    No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    




No. 4 Willie Jackson: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
    



No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    



No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”




    No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

  29. greywarbler 31

    Quote from Duncan Garner’s piece on leadership looking at Poorer Benefit. (See OABs comment for link – http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30082014/#comment-875999)
    Can Labour refute what he says about their limp response to our welfare needs?

    You can now have your benefit stopped, or docked, for not meeting expectations. There have been no mass welfare protests in the streets. Bennett has ushered through some big changes without controversy. She has worked closely with young mums on welfare.

    Her office tells me that in 2009 there were 4300 teen mums on a benefit. At the end of last year that number had dropped to 2300. She has issued them with payment cards for the essentials.

    Even Labour has struggled to criticise the changes. Labour says the numbers to look at are those children now living in poverty. In the latest Household Incomes Report, 135,000 children are now regarded as living in “severe poverty”. It has reached its highest level this century, according to Labour. So if that’s the case and Bennett is the Social Development Minister then why isn’t she copping it? She must have done something right.

    Bennett may just be the National leader in waiting.

  30. Draco T Bastard 32

    Labour’s plan to end homelessness

    “Labour will fund the provision of emergency housing through a contestable fund so agencies like Monte Cecilia and the Salvation Army can manage the houses and provide support to help people get their lives back on track and then move into more sustainable long term housing.

    Why are our politicians so determined to make things far more expensive than they need to be? All a contestable fund will do is increase bureaucracy and decrease the money going to the provision of emergency housing. Just set up a government department for the provision of the services.

  31. Awww 33

    That’s a very good question

    http://jononatusch.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/serious-questions-for-jared-savage-the-nz-herald/

    “Perhaps Jared Savage might like to explain what precisely he as a journalist was doing feeding information to Cameron Slater that Savage couldn’t publish himself. If the NZ Herald can’t use certain information in a story, it’s presumably because they’re worried about the legal consequences. So why would a reputable journalist then pass that information on to a blogger to use?

    Let’s look at the Len Brown sex scandal story. It wasn’t something any mainstream media outlet was going to touch. Until it was all over the Whaleoil site, which meant that it was now news. Was/Is there a similar modus operandi here from those working at the Herald? We can’t run the story, but if we give it to Slater we can report on what he’s “reported”?

    Or was it simply a Herald smear campaign against the then-SFO director? “We can’t report it, but we want to take him down.” Because if that’s the case, that’s not journalism; that’s a vendetta. Worse, it’s a vendetta performed in secret by the very people we are supposed to trust as impartial reporters of fact.”

    • Paul 33.1

      The Herald looks like it’s been up to its neck in mud over the Dirty Politics saga.
      Remember Glucina’s involvement as well in spreading gossip and smears.

    • Paul 33.2

      The Herald looks like it’s been up to its neck in mud over the Dirty Politics saga.
      Remember Glucina’s involvement as well in spreading gossip and smears.

  32. greywarbler 34

    Political opinion and comment on Radio nz.

    Next up http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/252810/election-2014-fact-or-fiction
    5:11 PM Campaign Focus
    Radio New Zealand’s political editor Brent Edwards looks back at the week on the hustings (2 of 4, RNZ)

    FACT or FICTION?
    Fact or fiction
    In the second week of a new fact-checking column, Brent Edwards checks claims made by Judith Collins, John Key, David Cunliffe, Rangi McLean and Winston Peters.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/252810/fact-or-fiction
    Each week on this page, Radio New Zealand will be checking the claims made by political parties and their candidates against the facts.

    It is an effort to hold politicians to account and ensure public statements they make during the election campaign are factual – not fiction or exaggeration.
    It is unlikely that we will be able to check every claim but we will try.

    If you hear claims made by politicians that make you suspicious, email us at parl@radionz.co.nz. Better still, include any documented evidence that you have proving a statement made by a politician is either wrong or exaggerated.
    Include “fact or fiction” in the subject field so we know to check.

    As well as uncovering fiction and exaggeration, we will also confirm when politicians have got it right.

  33. Rich 35

    Just searching for the original document from the Herald site of that Collins email, came across this;

    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1021430/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

    • Pasupial 35.1

      Rich

      Thanks for sharing, interesting to glimpse what the expanded GCHQ budgets have been going towards. I downloaded it as I’m not sure how long that link will be active once the slipup is noticed. It looks like a powerpoint slideshow to me, it’d be interesting to know what script/ talk is intended to go with it. Also what does; “SECRET// SI// REL TO USA, FEVY” (on every page) actually mean; particularly to a member of the public who is not subject to military regulations?

      THE ART of DECEPTION. Training for a new generation of online covert operations

      Pages 10-12, 24, & 42 are particularly fascinating

      • Rich 35.1.1

        Yes that’s what I thought first up as well but a search on the title indicates that it was released by wikileaks. So it’s in more than one place.

        As for what “SECRET// SI// REL TO USA, FEVY” is? It’s basically about Tyranny and the theft of our information and especially address books it seems;

        http://www.statewatch.org/news/2013/oct/usa-nsa-sso-overview.pdf

        “The SSO Optimization team’s job is to identify these types of data, and ensure appropriate corrective action is taken, throttling the data from corporate content or metadata repositories, as appropriate.”

      • Rich 35.1.2

        My reply on this is in spam censorship at the moment. Basically it’s about theft of information by the NSA etc, specifically specialising in stealing contacts from our address books. This of course is to stop us from associating with the wrong sort of people.

        We’re back in Rome, a Rome where if you pipe up with criticism of the Emperor then you get to choose your form of suicide. The main problem I have with that is that this was more imaginary than real originally. Our elites are basing our future condition on an idealised state as imagined by Tyrants and their minions but one that I would suggest never existed in the first place.

  34. Rich 36

    Just searching for the original Collins email pdf and came across this;

    http dot //s3 dot documentcloud dot org slash documents slash 1021430 slash the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new dot pdf

    you’ll have to change the slash to / and the dot to .

  35. crocodill 37

    There was a side discussion in one of the now many Collins-bites-it posts about Cameron Slater’s social status and his part in the downfall of a government. Can’t find it now, but will post here because it should concern the Left – or usually does.

    The comment went along the lines of oh the irony, unemployed mentally ill man has extremely high intelligence and brings down a government that usually hates his “kind”.

    If I have that grossly wrong, taken from memory, I don’t mean to purposely misrepresent to prove something that isn’t there.

    The gist reveals how mental illness is viewed in the heat of the moment by average people. I rate you all as average – myself included – you know, the person you often walk past on the street. It’s the heat of the moment that can reveal accuracies that wold otherwise be smothered with what is considered right or politically correct.

    It is kind of ironic, Cameron Slater having done what he’s done, both purposely and inadvertently. On the one hand he is living testament, a far more real face of recovered illness than the stories used on those TV ads. Not everyone who is or was ill is permanently crazy, suddenly much smarter or changed in positive ways, or even at all. Some might discover bright truths about the world or themselves through mental illness. Others just go back to being whatever they were, still more find life changed dramatically and seemingly irreconcilably. What’s missing out of those ads is that fact. Those ads have no range.

    Those on the Right, if we can utilise a convenient but not entirely untrue stereotype for a while, would be screaming, “See I told you, that’s why you should expel the mentally ill from society! They’re untrustable loons! They’ll bring us all down!”. My view is, leaving aside the amazing damage done and general subversion of democratic principles, his “achievements” are remarkable. If Slater can do all that strategic thinking, after battling depression and/or god knows what else for so long, he really has an impressive mind. A mind with limits, maybe a dark and seriously dangerous mind, but brilliant none the less. I don’t know if he was that smart before his illness, but if it made him smarter, why do we side line those who can contribute while they experience illness and those who have or are recovering. Even the Right would have to agree he’s disproved all their slogans about earning a place in society; being formally educated, that the rich are the only ones who know how to rule; that the unemployed are lazy bludgers (the work, the effort!) … the slogans the man has disproved are endless.

    The JK ads on mental illness would have you believe that those who have seen the worst are of a singular type, their conditions leading to a similar end state: docile, retiring, friendly, shell-shocked, something that’s needs a break and a helping hand. Don’t get me wrong, many do, just don’t think it’s the rule. People are people, regardless.

    Bravo, Whalemind, you evil genius. Helping us break down stigmas and exposing the lies of our well-meaning beliefs even as you destroy our democracy.

    • Murray Olsen 37.1

      I don’t believe any of that for a minute. If there is anyone with any real intelligence in that operation, it’s not Slater. You need to remember that he doesn’t even write most of the stuff. He just puts his name to it. And as far as the right would be concerned, Blubber Boy gained his place in their society by birth into a prominent NAct family.

  36. Hami Shearlie 39

    When the right start spreading outrageously funny “chinese” whispers among the legal fraternity about David Cunliffe’s private life, you know how VERY VERY SCARED of him they are!!! A friend of mine told me very very earnestly that she has an “impeccable source” who told her that rumours are swirling around the legal fraternity about David Cunliffe. I nearly burst out laughing – I’d believe that John Key was a rodent-swallowing alien before I would believe this latest serving of tripe – It’s got a very fishy smell, as everything whale usually does! THE RIGHT ARE GETTING REALLY DESPERATE AND SCARED!!! This makes me smile like a Cheshire Cat who swallowed the whole cow full of cream!!

    • anker 39.1

      Isn’t this a worry? I mean I am sure it is bullshit. But the sleeping General Public fall for this stuff

      • Tigger 39.1.1

        Look, you want nasty stuff from the legal fraternity? Finlayson. I’ve been passed lots of dirty info on him from lawyers in the past six years. Judicial appointments. Staff issues. Personal guff. Whoever wants to play dirty needs to know that if I know this stuff, someone less discerning about privacy knows this stuff. And it’s a free for all out there. National need to clean up and you don’t do that by flinging more shit.

  37. alwyn 40

    Why is everybody posting here worrying about trivia?
    There is only one significant item of news today.

    Hawkes Bay has won the Ranfurly Shield!
    Hawkes Bay has won the Ranfurly Shield!
    Hawkes Bay has won the Ranfurly Shield!
    Hawkes Bay has won the Ranfurly Shield!

    All else pales into insignificance.

    Come on The Bay!

  38. expublicservant 41

    Judith Collins – goodbye and good riddance. Here’s hoping the rest get kicked out next month.

  39. Rodel 42

    Just a thought’ If Cameron manages to get a prosecution against people who illegally received and subsequently acted on his hacked e mails, doesn’t that now include John Key? -sacking Judith Collins on the basis of a ‘stolen’ e mail would have to be an offense, wouldn’t it?

  40. adam 43

    Silly question – but were have the trolls gone?? – Lynn did they realise were are smarter and nicer people – or get themselves banned?

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