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Open mike 30/09/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, September 30th, 2014 - 268 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

268 comments on “Open mike 30/09/2014 ”

  1. Richard 1

    On open mike this morning I’d like to bring up daylight bloody saving. Day 2 getting up now at what was 5 am. Bloody annoying, why can’t we split the difference and leave it all year. twice a year I get my work routine interrupted. it’s annoying and tiring. Right now I’m 3 weeks into a major order. Now I got to go to work being sharp as but tired as. It’s just not right.

    That’s my moan for today over.

    • tc 1.1

      I wish we would all go on the same weekend ! I now have a larger gap to factor in till the Oz states that do DST move, thats a pain.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.2

      Oddly, Richard, we already do have it all year; if I remember correctly, we’ve had a permanent half hour of daylight saving since world war two.

    • Ovid 1.3

      All year? I’m afraid getting up an hour earlier down here in the south in the middle of winter with frosts and worse to contend with would not be in the interests of public safety.

      Edit: Internal Affairs page on daylight saving history says in 1868 our time was set 11 1/2 hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time. TRP is right, it was set to 12 hours in the war and confirmed by the Time Act in the 1970s.

    • Dialey 1.4

      I so agree. Personally I love the light early mornings, run on the beach with the dogs and watch the sunrise – it somehow makes the day go so much better. But now I’m back to setting the alarm and getting up in the dark for the next 4 weeks. So much nicer being woken by bellbirds. The adjustment period to summer/winter time is about 2 weeks – it stuffs my body clock and makes me grumpy. Half an hour difference between the two and all year round would be great!

    • McFlock 1.5

      While I missed my first meetings yesterday and today due to getting up later than everyone else so I am inclined to agree with you (I’m not a morning person 🙂 ), there is a certain irony in making a comment against getting up earlier when you were quite obviously the first person up for the day 🙂

    • Rosie 1.6

      Completely legitimate moan Richard.

      I’d be absolutely cool with the same time setting all year round. I’m crap at adjusting to the summer hours, it takes me weeks. It’s really bad when you’re an insomniac like me.

      I was aghast when daylight savings time was extended back in 2006 (07?) Part of that change was Peter Dunne’s fault. He was largely behind the push, along side the mayor for Nelson, at the time.

      I am the 6%


      Hope things improve with your crappy boss soon.

  2. q:..who is the highest-paid work-experience employee in nz..?

    a:..that dweeb from act..at a half a mill a year..

    q..who is king-trougher..?

    a:..that would be the ever-oleaginous dunne..

    ..4,500 party votes..(half the number of votes of the aotearoa legalise cannabis party..)

    ..and also on over a half a mill. a year..

    ..(seems fair..eh..?..

    ..and of course..!..thank you green party (on behalf of dunne)..

    ..for splitting the vote in ohariu..and thus gifting this trough to dunne..

    ..care to tell us why the fuck you just couldn’t not stand a candidate in ohariu..?

    ..and thus guarantee dunnes’ defeat..?

    ..and yep..!..get used to it..

    ..i am going to be banging on about this..at regular intervals..for the next three yrs..

    ..i dunno how else to stop you from doing it/the same braindead thing again.. in 2017…)

    • yeshe 2.1

      @phillip .. please accept a gold star for ‘the ever-oleaginous Dunne’ .. thank u !

      and did you notice the dweeb from Epsom said even though he not leader of Act, he would be accepting the Leader’s budget in Parliament because that’s how the law is written !!! ( oink, oink, oink .. with apologies to piggies everywhere)

      Seymour will go down in history somehow if only for most egregious grovelling.

      Phillip .. why do you think Key is being so free and generous while he already holds a majority ? He sure is buying something from Dumb and Dumber.

      Is it solely for number guarantees pushing through TPPA ?

      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        the dweeb on tv this morn saying:.(while being asked about his half a million dollars a year work-experience gig..and a reference to hides (faux as it turned out) perk-busting..)

        .’act is against big government…”

        ..and i swear he managed to say it po-faced..

        (not even a lip twitch..but when on their own..how he/they must laugh..eh..?..)

        ..and what a great deal for the taxpayers..!

        ..instead of a backbenchers-salary a national mp in epsom wd have earned..

        ..we have the not so salutary experience of seeing the work-experience dweeb being given a half a million plus trough..

        ..from/upon which to gorge..

        ..what a sick fucken joke..

        ..and in answer to yr question..i think key is just looking to 2017..

        ..he wants them there..in case he needs them..

        ..and he is like a pimp with his whores..

        ..doen’t like to loose/loosen his control over his ‘bitches’…

        • cricko

          Oh dear.
          Maybe a psyco doctor could offer an opinion.

          Why the pure hatred ?
          Why the venom ?

          Do you really think you advance our argument with stuff like,

          “the dweeb.”
          “the pimp and his whores.”
          “his bitches”

          Make a salient point if you can, thats one thing, but this sort of invective
          just turns most people off.

          This puke talk is just counterproductive phillip.

          It may help you feel better personally but does our cause no good at all.
          People read this. People who do not bother to post opinions make judgements.
          Please try harder, or….
          just STFU
          you’r not helping.
          Get it ?

          • phillip ure

            @ crico..

            ..you are advocating for a neo-lib labour to continue..

            ..and that is just wrong..

            ..and i will argue all i can against that..

            ..and yes..i do think seymour is an archetype dweeb..

            ..and i do think the national/act and national/dunny..

            ..are like a pimp/whore relationship..

            ..how can it not be..

            …so..yr point is..?

            ..wd you rather i called a spade a digging-implement..?

            ..and called dunne/seymour courtesans..?

            ..ladies of the night..?

            ..those who ‘rely on the kindness of strangers’..?

            ..which offends you least..?

          • North

            Oh FO and Cry Cry Cry somewhere else Cricko ! Nothing wrong with PU’s colourful diction. Essential to efficient making of his valid point actually. Maybe it’s you should STFU Mr Bland. Let yourself down a little bit with the “STFU”……according to your own ‘standards’ that is.

    • Naki man 2.2

      With a bit of luck in 2017 Act will be gone and the Conservatives will be in.

    • small thing 2.3

      Yeah really sickening that two people can get that kind of consideration from so few voters

  3. whoar.co.nz..(a fan-letter..how ‘charming’..)

    “..CharmingBilly says:
    30/9/2014 at 3:34 am.

    The best to you….and THANK YOU for all you do…I live in the US, and a charming KIWI told me about your site, and now you are my first stop every morning….”

  4. at the end of the day..today is the day cunnliffe stands down as leader..

    ..so maybe this morning on telly was the last time we have heard him say ‘at the end of the day’..for awhile..anyway..

    ..i hope you all treasured it/the moment..

    ..(and can i suggest a new rule for labour..for them to consider in their review..?

    ..that no labour person shall ever ever say:

    ..’at the end of the day’…)

    • Rosie 4.1

      There has been an overly frequent use/abuse of “at the end of the day” across the parties. Disappointing to hear Cunliffe say it, but even more curious was a candidate for one of the Maori seats speaking on Kowhiri 14 on Maori TV (apologies, can’t remember who) that used the phrase a record number of times, so much that, that phrase completely overshadowed any point he was trying to make.

      They could try something more poetic…..perhaps “when dusk falls”, “when the gloaming comes” etc.

      Key started it though. His line could be (after a sucking in of air through the teeth) “at beer o clock……….”

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        @ rosie..

        ..that is part of my objection..

        ..key already owns it..

        ..let it be his linguistic-dead-albatross…

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        They could try something more poetic…

        Said in a deep voice..

        When the cycle ends, turns to legend and then to myth and is forgotten when it comes round again…

        Although, I don’t think any of our pollies could manage a deep voice.

      • Clemgeopin 4.1.3

        At the end of the day as sure as night follows the day, Key will run of to his one true love, Hawaii US of A. I predict should start bets on that.

  5. Not a PS Staffer 6

    David Cunliffe gave very good accounts of himself on both Campbell Live and The Paul Henry Show last night. He seems to me to be “in a good place” with regard to why he is going into battle for the Leadership of the Party.
    Kia kaha David.

    I don’t know whether I’d be able to stomach a conversation with Paul Henry. That is above and beyond the call of duty. He is an oxygen thief.

    • henry did say to cunnliffe..after cunnliffe had successfully parried a couple of probing henry questions..(i paraphrase..)

      “..you’re getting quite good at doing this..aren’t you..?’..

    • Chooky 6.2

      Paul Henry …courtesy of the UK…appeals to the lowest common denominator…Cunliffe must be doing well!

    • SDCLFC 6.3

      Didn’t see Henry but on Campbell live he blamed his caucus and said that some could argue that the election result was a sign that Labour was turning around the decline. More denial, this time bordering on delusion, while the first point is terrible for a leader to say. He is tearing the party apart.

      • Clemgeopin 6.3.1

        I would put the blame more on some members of the caucus to rush to judgement within 48 hours of the election pitting the blame on the result solely on Cunliffe and demanding he resign, then rush to vote in their own whip showing disunity and disloyalty to the party bringing it into disrepute. Wrong and hasty moves. Complete stupidity.

        See the interviews here:



        • SDCLFC

          I saw the reaction of caucus as a whole against David coming not from the result itself but his reaction to the result which was horribly poor.
          In those moments straight after New Zealanders need to hear that Labour had heard what they were saying and they were not getting that from the leader.
          What’s more he has lost the support of the best performing MP in the caucus, David Parker, via his awful attempt to muzzle him.
          That was an indictment on his leadership and should be a message to the party not to return this guy because he is simply has very poor personal skills.
          He might be good at speaking to loyal members, but non-members are turned off by him.
          Whenever I’ve spoken to any potential Labour voter who’s heard Robertson speak, they’re always impressed, and that’s what we need.

        • small thing

          Its ridiculous to go into blame mode and focus on the leadership question when the party itself is out of touch with the voters it traditionally represents and its failure to hold this national govt to account on the social issues that National is poaching Labours policies on with the govt providing nothing more than lip service and false data on the real state of the nations ability to address real poverty .
          This national govt will use its majority in the house to further side step the truth about what they will do about the environment, social services,R&D, and what it is giving away on TTPA , let alone what is already been decided before the election on our coerced commitment to the US foreign policy thru 5 eyes Also the lack of diversity in our export income because this govt will not provide incentive for a living wage because it is too bloody tight like most right wing capitalist
          We need to push all the economic priorities to the fore to get the truth on how National is going to direct this country in the next 3 years and not listen to the carrot and stick bullshit which is how National runs its economics for the masses while protecting the those who pay the National Party to be the govt

          • SDCLFC

            I would agree, but I think the first move in the counter direction as made by Cunliffe on election night and that has forced caucus and Robsertson’s hand to prevent something even more damaging. I wanted Cunliffe over Robertson because I though he was the best chance of winning, now we desperately need Grant because there will be nothing left of this party if Cunliffe remains. All or best talent lies with those who either oppose or do not support Cunliffe.

      • Hami Shearlie 6.3.2

        I would say that someone who failed miserably to win the Leadership race last time, yet is putting himself up for it again, could be said to be the one tearing the party apart. Grandiose ideas about oneself which don’t mirror reality and public perception could be said to be a sign of a selfish person. David Cunliffe is confident and ambitious sure, but that confidence comes from having the presence and intellectual grunt to completely revamp the party. Is John Key not ambitious, was Helen Clark not ambitious – since when is ambition a dirty word? Some people have the right stuff to be a leader and some people do not – people who are totally forgettable will never become Prime Ministers!

        • SDCLFC

          Ambition is a problem when it’s partnered, or fueled, with delusion and conceit. And as for Robertson failing miserably last time, isn’t that exactly what just happened to Cunliffe?

      • Naki man 6.3.3

        I agree with you, I thought it was one of Campbells better interviews. He didn’t let Cunners get away with too much of his spin and bullshit. Cunners came across as totally delusional.

  6. first day on the job – first john key-lie..

    john key:..’seymour from act did not ask to be a minister..’

    seymour:..’yes..i did ask to be a minister’..

    (he must learn to get ‘on message’..that seymour..

    ..and does key ever tell the fucken truth..?..)

  7. Pat O'Dea 8

    Black Flag

    [lprent: As gregj states below, an explanation of why someone should click on a link is generally going to not attract suspicion of astroturfing / click-baiting / link-whoring (and my attention).

    This is an opinion piece in The Press about why it’d be a bad idea to abandon our current flag for a sporting symbol. ]

    • yeshe 8.1

      worth reading about our flag and Shonkey’s distraction tactics, if only for this comment by one Ian Dalziel …

      Or as the old saying (almost) goes:
      With fronds like this who needs enemas?

      (apologies to Denis Norden)

    • GregJ 8.2

      Pat – perhaps a bit more explanation along with the link? I’m not a fan of clicking on links without some context – it encourages “click baiting”.


  8. Not a PS Staffer 9

    I don’t like the picture of Hooton on this section. It is pointless. We should ignore him.

    • Chooky 9.1

      +100 …agreed!….he is no friend of the Left…he deserves contempt and repulsion for his spin for the corrupt and undemocratic oligarchy and right wing agenda( it is a reflection of his own Self) ….he does not deserve acknowledgment …he gets enough of this on Radio New Zealand!

      …he tries to appear a friend of the Left because it suits his PR business purposes and right wing agenda spin

      ( there I am balanced …what I have to say is valuable to all New Zealanders and the Left spectrum as well!..i will put this endorsement by the Standard on my CV …I am a very important and valuable commentator!…even the left acknowledges this)

      …Hooton is a wolf in sheep’s clothing…and a particularly dangerous one

  9. Jenny Kirk 10

    Yeah – I find Hooton on today’s Open Mike a bit silly too.

    Meanwhile – the Herald are running a poll this morning on who should be Labour’s Leader. Last time I looked Jacinda (inexperienced Jacinda) was in the lead for goodness sake ! Here’s the link


    • mickysavage 10.1

      My choice sorry. I try to mix up the pictures to provide a bit of variety and to attract attention. Looks like this is working although not for the right reasons …

      • The Al1en 10.1.1

        Thanks to whoever put up the Rimmer/Seymour picture the other day.
        I found a website with all episodes of Red Dwarf, and have had quite a few vintage belly laughs out of the retrospective.

        An inspired pick, that one.

    • vto 10.2

      Jenny Kirk, why are you surprised everybody wants the lovely Jacinda for leader ….. almost 1 in 3 of us wanted the lovely Key for leader.

      This is twice since Sept 20 that evidence has been shown that the average voter doesn’t know anything like they should about politics and leadership – they think it is all about the smile ffs/ Idiots. This is what people do. They voted in H1tler too don’t forget.

      Reality? Get real. It is all about the perception.

      • Chooky 10.2.1

        actually i find Nanaia Mahuta way more attractive than the “lovely Jacinda” ( whose chompers are so big…they remind me of a rabbit relative of the March Hare’s)


        Nanaia Mahuta would be a fantastic deputy to Cunliffe…she has the voter form ( very popular)…she is loyal and has the smarts ….AND she is attractive to the woman vote ( 50% of the population) …and the Maori and Polynesian vote ( an important part of Labour’s core constituency)

        Nanaia Mahuta would go well head to head against Paula Bennett on Social Welfare ( crucial to win Labour’s turnout and vote)

        • lurgee

          Labour is already comfortably ahead in the female and the polynesian / Maori vote. there isn’t any need to go out of our way to appeal to those groups. Neither Mahuta or Ardern really strike me as good choices. Neither has much fire in their belly and both will look suspiciously like token picks.

          Cunliffe-Shearer might be a stroke of genius. Cunliffe would get the backing of a significant rival and Shearer would have the chance to build up support, and present himself as a unifier, for a future contest with Robertson.

          • DoublePlus Good

            Labour isn’t ahead on the female vote. And plenty of Maori are still voting for the Maori party.

      • swordfish 10.2.2

        “They voted in Hitler too don’t forget”

        A bit of a myth that gets regularly regurgitated on the blogosphere. The most the Nazis ever got in a free Election was 37% (less than 14 million out of 37 million votes cast / 230 out of 608 Reichstag seats) . By the time Hitler seized power (in a series of manoeuvres akin to a constitutional coup d’état), the Nazi vote was sliding back towards 30%.

        • lurgee

          Indeed. The splits in the left between hardline uncompromising fanatics and soft social democrats was a fatal error.

          Might there be a lesson for us there?

          (Though I imagine whatever camp people place themselves in, they will assume the compromise has to come from the other side. That’s not compromise, people, it’s insisting on unconditional surrender.)

          • Te Reo Putake

            “The splits in the left between hardline uncompromising fanatics and soft social democrats was a fatal error.”

            Not so. While there was considerable bad blood between the two camps, it was the KPD that sought a united front with the SDP. It was the SPD that rejected the chance to work together.

            And re: the other bit of revisionism, while it’s true that the Hitler never ‘won’ an election, his party was the most popular in the two years prior to the coup. The voting for Hitler thing is no less important because of the inaccuracy of the tagline; you only have to look next door at modern day France to see how his idealogical successors there have legitimised themselves at the ballot box.

            • swordfish

              Ahh, so the historical facts = some sort of suspect “revisionism”, do they TRP ?

              I’m simply trying to scotch this apparently widespread misconception that a large majority of Germans voted Hitler into power.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Ah, no, swordfish, you misread me. I agree with you. The revisionism is the “widespread misconception that a large majority of Germans voted Hitler into power.” There’s a similar misconception about Key’s popularity round these parts, too!

                • swordfish

                  Fair enough, TRP.

                  Wasn’t it Cher herself – that font of wisdom – who said If I could turn back time, if I could find a way, I’d take back those words that hurt you, and you’d stay ?

                  Why Yes, I think it was.

            • Murray Olsen

              You missed the bit about Stalin calling the SPD social fascists and claiming that they were as much the enemy as the actual fascists. After that, fighting the fascists together became much harder.

              • Te Reo Putake

                No, I didn’t miss it, Murray. By the time of the 1932 and ’33 federal elections, the Comintern had moved on from that sectarian position due to the stark reality of fascism and the KPD’s Thalmann proposed working with the SDP in early ’33 only to be rebuffed. As I noted, there was considerable bad blood between them, so it was not a surprise that a united front could not be organised until it was too late, but it was definitely the SDP that were ‘uncompromising’ (as swordfish put it).

        • Tracey

          and jfk’s majority was only about 100,000 votes…

      • greywarbler 10.2.3

        It’s a wonder they didn’t vote in that Herald poll for Poorer Benefit not realising that they are supposed to be thinking about a Labour leader. Poorer looks so nice, the smile adjusted photogenically, quite upmarket. Reminds me of the disparaging comment made by someone meeting Pamela Ayres in the flesh , “Goodness, I didn’t recognise you. They did you up good for the telly.”

    • Colonial Viper 10.3

      So, who would be the winner in an hour long TV debate Jacinda Ardern vs Paula Bennett.

      Yeah, so that settles that.

    • Colonial Viper 10.4

      So, who would be the winner in an hour long TV debate Jacinda Ardern vs Paula Bennett.

      Yeah, so that settles that.

  10. Jenny Kirk 11

    If you haven’t heard about this – there is a protest Hikoi against Statoil undertaking deep sea drilling off Northland’s coast.

    Today is the chance for Aucklander’s to join this important movement in defence of our oceans by joining the Hikoi at 12 Noon at Britmart for the March up Queen St to the NZ Oil conference at SkyCity – today, Tuesday 30 Sept.

  11. Lanthanide 12

    The Economist has an article covering the NZ Election.

    John Key admits that NZers like him because he sounds thick:

    Asked why he is so often described as like somebody New Zealanders know from their local rugby club, he explains it is because “my vocabulary is so poor; or my elocution is.”

    • Ovid 12.1

      We do ourselves no favours if we think John Key is dumb. You don’t win three elections by being a fool. He’s a very shrewd politician.

      • Naki man 12.1.1

        Ovid very true, John Key is a very shrewd politician who knows that he is more likeable if he comes across as an ordinary bloke. The left continue to under estimate him.

        • paddy

          The gloss of Key will wear off. Cunliffe beat him easily in all the debates. Next election there will be no Dot Com to steal the oxygen. Gotta drop the rise in pension age but. I know it makes sense fiscally but its electoral poison.

        • Tracey

          they continue to attempt to reveal him, there is a small difference.

        • framu

          we all know that – but how do you feel about JK thinking your thick?

          • Naki man

            Cunners is the one who talks to everyone as if they are stupid, I said key comes across as an ordinary bloke, Not arrogant, smarmy, and thinking he is better smarter than everyone else like Cunners

            • Murray Olsen

              It’s pretty obvious he’s fooled you. That says something about your personality, and I have a strong suspicion it’s not good. I think it’s something to do with you imagining yourself in his shoes, so that when he evades a question and gets away with an evasive answer, you think it was you fooling people. In reality, he’ll fool fewer as time goes by until, at the end of the day……..

      • Tracey 12.1.2

        he was parachuted in to play a role and relies on the trickery that got him to the top of currency trading and merril lynch. the nats have produced a sound strategy to make what he is wanted… the two track strategy is clever and highly duplicitous, just like Key.

      • Puddleglum 12.1.3

        We do ourselves no favours if we think John Key is dumb.

        I don’t think that was Lanthanide’s point.

        John Key was responding to a question about why, in effect, he was seen to be like an ordinary New Zealander. He then said it was because he spoke as if he didn’t have a good vocabulary or his speech wasn’t comprehensible.

        In effect, he was saying that he was taken as being an ordinary New Zealander because he sounded a bit slow. That suggests that he thinks ordinary New Zealanders don’t sound very intelligent.

        None of that is the same as claiming that John Key – in fact, rather than in perception – is dumb.

  12. Charles Temworth. 13

    David Cunliffe all the way!

  13. yeshe 14

    Oh, look what has pooped out under OIA for Jared Savage at the Herald …. what Williamson really got up to for Donghua Liu .. who still awaits the court decision of whether he can vacate his guilty please on senselessly bashing both his ‘wife/partner’ and mother.

    Note the using of John Key’s name referring to when opened one of Liu’s properties in these letters to our Ministers .. tacit approval from Jason Ede’s boss !!! Such a fine special criminal class of immigrant, supported by Key et al.

    CORRUPTION and they are getting away with it, all over again.


  14. yeshe 15

    More awful truths about Pike River and further corruption shame on Key’s govt:

    Pike River ‘had the worst of everything

    Being part of the Pike River Royal Commission of Inquiry was “one of the most difficult things” Stewart Bell has ever done.

    Now he and Australian mining expert Mark Parcell are presenting the commission’s findings on the disaster for a series of work safety seminars around the country.

    In Westport yesterday, Bell documented the events leading to Pike River coal mine exploding, killing 29 miners and contractors, on November 19, 2010.

    “Right from the initial concept of Pike, things were going wrong,” he told the audience, which included Solid Energy employees and Mines Rescue Service staff.

    He detailed the failings the commission had found in the running of the mine, especially with the management of methane in the underground mine.

    “That is the worst gas monitoring system I’ve ever seen . . . and I’ve seen a lot of gas monitoring systems all over the place. What surprised us was that the explosion hadn’t happened earlier.”

    Because of the difficult environment Pike River Coal was mining in, Bell said the operation needed “the best of everything”.

    “Management, equipment, data . . . arguably, it had the worst of everything.

    “We were lucky we didn’t lose more people.”

    Given the level of failures, Bell said he was surprised there were no prosecutions.

    “We were lucky we didn’t lose more people.”

    Given the level of failures, Bell said he was surprised there were no prosecutions.

    Former Pike River Coal chief executive Peter Whittall faced 12 charges under the Health and Safety in Employment Act, but those charges were dropped last December.

    “If that series of events had taken place in a Queensland mine [where Bell is mine safety commissioner], we would have prosecuted.”


    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      Given the level of failures, Bell said he was surprised there were no prosecutions.

      I’m not. Once you have an aristocracy, as our societies worship of the rich and powerful has made them, then those aristocrats will never be held accountable for their criminal actions. We see this in the fact that the entire National government isn’t presently facing charges for corruption.

    • Tracey 15.2

      brownlee cut the ribbon…

  15. Dorothy 16

    The Herald helping choose the Labour leader, I do not think so.

  16. Not a PS Staffer 17

    “Middle New Zealand” is a term used by David Shearer, Stuart Nash and Chris Trotter recently. I feel uncomfortable with it. It smells of “Mainstream New Zealand” as spoken by Don Brash.

    What are they trying to achieve by using this language? Who do they have in mind when they refer to it?
    Who do they thinks are NOT in middle New Zealand?

    • Olwyn 17.1

      The term “middle New Zealand” is worrying to me because it suggests those who are assumed to be on the comfortable side of the fault-line between the haves and have-nots. Which in turn suggests moving further in the direction of the one-party state, where differences lie only in branding. Coke versus Pepsi, Spark versus Vodafone, etc.

      In fact I think that the media/political circle outlined in Dirty Politics extends beyond dishing the dirt – it also serves to determine who gets to play in the sandpit with those-in-the-know, creating blurred lines between National, Labour and the political media. The screeching that has followed David Cunliffe (Ferguson this morning kept saying 24% over and over again like a talking bird) has the tone of a tribe or flock defending itself against an intruder or opponent. And the statements made by some of the so-called left, both MP’s and others, seem to signal over the heads of their listeners to the same tribe.

      The issue to me is whether this tribe gets to determine Labour’s direction, or whether the members and affiliates are able to have a real say. If the latter, it will involve the scary business of standing up to them, and suffering the inevitable vitriol. Which will in turn demand fighting back, rather than appeasement. I favour the latter, for the sake of both democracy and social justice. For this reason I will vote for Cunliffe to continue.

      • Clemgeopin 17.1.1

        Cunliffe too has said that the party has to move to attract the middle New Zealand.
        To me, that is the pragmatic thing to do to win an election because 50% of the vote is essential to form a government. In reality, the majority ARE the middle NZ. People in that bracket are earning fairly good incomes/combined incomes in the modern world. A major party can only ignore them at their own peril. Most of these middle NZ are also fair minded decent ordinary well educated folk who will nevertheless support socially just, environmentally sound and economically smart policies as long as they are not made to bear the major brunt of the costs.
        Most of the Labour policies, with some adjustments, will draw those middle NZ back into its fold from the other RW or Centrist parties such as National, NZF and even the Cons.
        Leave the specific often extremist looking taxation/environmental policies/programmes to the Greens who have a reasonably large core constituency in its support. Mana/IMP too has an important place in the mix though with a smaller support base.
        Labour can not try to be National or Greens or Mana. Let Labour be Labour: the heart, brains and caring conscience of the people and the country.

        • Olwyn

          I do not mean for one minute that such people should be ignored. After all, many Labour Party members are just such people. But I do not like to see the term used as code for business-as-usual, and top-down rule.

          • Clemgeopin

            ” But I do not like to see the term used as code for business-as-usual, and top-down rule”

            I don’t believe that either Cunliffe or Robertson will do that.

            • Colonial Viper

              This is all ridiculous.

              It’s like all of you have forgotten that Labour’s mid 30% up to ~37% ratings late last year came on the back of Cunliffe’s “real red” Labour Party languaging and promises.

              Not some watered down bullshit appeal to the top 20% ~$60K pa plus crowd.

              • Tracey


                i think middle nz is just a catchall for people who swing betw nats and labour. ..

              • Clemgeopin

                ‘Not some watered down bullshit appeal to the top 20% ~$60K pa plus crowd”

                Labour proposed an increase of 3 c/$ from the present 33% to 36% for incomes above $150,000 while the Greens wanted 40% above $140,000.

                Which do you prefer? or do you have a different idea?

              • Yes, that bump in the polls after a leadership contest in which the media highlighted Cunliffe’s appeal to the left/red side of Labour certainly shows that it is not a complete turn off to the electorate.

                Of course, it could also have been relief that Shearer was no longer leader.

                But in either case, it suggests that left rhetoric (certainly if ‘left’ is understood economically) is not a problem for a lot of New Zealanders.

                It’s probably the sense that the Labour Party doesn’t know what it stands for and can’t get its act together that turns some people off who otherwise would return to support it.

        • Draco T Bastard

          …as long as they are not made to bear the major brunt of the costs.

          The problem being that we can’t actually afford the rich and, yes, that is who you’re actually describing although I know a few people who are definitely underclass who think of themselves as middle class. We can afford for everyone to be reasonably well off but we cannot afford for even a large minority to be bloody well off.

          Mana/IMP too has an important place in the mix though with a smaller support base.

          Two things:

          1. Mana is, ATM, in the IMP alliance. The other party to the IMP is the Internet Party.
          2. They actually need a far bigger support base if we want to save our society.

          Labour can not try to be National

          Labour is the slightly softer face of National.

          • Clemgeopin

            [“We can afford for everyone to be reasonably well off but we cannot afford for even a large minority to be bloody well off”]

            What was ‘reasonably well off’ in 1980 is much different today considering the cost of living, house prices etc. we need to keep them in Labour and not drive them away with their back pockets. Reasonable taxes and services for them and greater services and avenues for those in the lower economic brackets. It is the ‘bloody well off’ that is the problem. They are the new real beneficiaries. Drive them off to NATS, CONS and ACT.

            [“Two things:
            1. Mana is, ATM, in the IMP alliance. The other party to the IMP is the Internet Party.2. They actually need a far bigger support base if we want to save our society”]

            True. Mana’s policies do symbolise ‘applied Christianity’. Labour needs to allow Mana/IMP to do their own thing, gather strength and support it well when in government or coalition.

            [“Labour is the slightly softer face of National’]

            That is just a fashionable silly framing. Completely wrong. Key/National copied a few of the social justice policies of the last Labour government of Clark/Cullen in order to fool the population to seem reasonable and respectable, steal votes off labour and to remain in power longer to do RW nasty selfish stuff to the country in favour of the wealthy and the very wealthy. Open your eyes!

            • Draco T Bastard

              What was ‘reasonably well off’ in 1980 is much different today considering the cost of living, house prices etc.

              That’s a meaningless sentence. In 1980 the average family couldn’t afford a PC, now even poor families can. But even that doesn’t address the reality that today having a computer in the home is essential and average house prices should never be above 3 or 4 times average household income.

              The price of food in NZ should be so low as to almost free instead we get to, seemingly, pay slightly more than what the farmers international customers are willing to pay.

              That is just a fashionable silly framing.

              Nope. As long as Labour keeps to the neo-liberal/classical economic paradigm, and they’re showing no sign of shifting from it, then it’s juts a slightly less blue National.

              BTW: I see, and applaud, your attempts to make your replies slightly more readable but may I suggest the use of simple HTML.

              • Clemgeopin

                BTW: I see, and applaud, your attempts to make your replies slightly more readable but may I suggest the use of simple HTML


        • Chris

          It’s this approach that has failed Labour since 1984. Since then Labour has had only nine years in government, and that was pure luck that it had a leader who happened to be popular. It wasn’t Labour’s policies that gave it power in those nine years. It was in spite of them. Labour hasn’t had a caring, inclusive, participatory and citizen-based set of policies since before the mid-1980s. Even Muldoon’s approach to social policy was more left-wing than Labour’s under Clark. In the absence of a likeable leader Labour will remain in opposition. In the meantime it needs learn how to be a labour party again.

          • Tracey

            can you explain why you havent included 1984 to 1990…

            making it 15 years since 1984?

            • Chris

              Of course, that’s right. Gee, it’s so easy to dismiss that period as being a Tory government. I wonder why? The point remains, however, which is that ever since Labour lost its way it’s relied solely on the popularity of its leader – nothing more.

    • Chris 17.2

      The answer, I think is in Nash saying that Labour needs to stop being hard left and returning more to the right. It’s something Hooton says, although it’s not surprising given Nash, Odgers, Hooton, Slater, Farrar are all cut from the same cloth. You know Labour’s in dire trouble when someone who is part of this filth-mob is one of its MPs.

      • Kiwiri 17.2.1

        David Cunliffe rose to the high 30% in Sep-Oct 2013.
        He will go higher with a good team of caucus and supporters.

        • paddy

          When Cunliffe wins then the traitors who ran an electorate campaign have to be purged. Robertson Goff, Mallard. Cosgrove, Shearer have to be first. Either a by election or deselected.

        • Colonial Viper

          That was on the back of strong languaging and imagery around a ‘real red’ Labour Party. Not some watered down drift to the mythical centre of the top 20%.

          • Clemgeopin

            “That was on the back of strong languaging and imagery around a ‘real red’ Labour Party. Not some watered down drift to the mythical centre of the top 20%”

            Do you think the vote fell from 30% plus to 24% because Cunliffe drifted to the ‘mythical centre’ during the campaign? I doubt that.

            • Colonial Viper

              The strong languaging and imagery around a ‘real red’ Labour, not a watered down light blue one, didn’t turn off new member sign up. It didn’t turn off TV coverage of the leadership race. It didn’t turn off the polls.

              In fact, it pushed the polls up there, all the way to the mid/upper 30-something percent range.

        • Chris

          But the caucus has already been decided and there’s no way it will be united under Cunliffe.

      • Tracey 17.2.2

        has nash sent flowers to mcvicar or is he still pretending he secured a great and compelling victory?

    • Dialey 17.3

      John Ralston Saul has an interesting view on the middle class:
      “Societies have shapes. A middle-class democracy hopes to be shaped like a diamond standing on its point, you know like that, a little bit of rich at the top, unfortunately some really poor at the bottom that you’re always trying to deal with but you never manage to deal with at all, and then most of it are there in the middle.

      The 19th century pure capitalist model of society was a pyramid, concentrations of enormous wealth in a small group at the top, a not very big middle-class in the middle, and an enormous percentage of the population in the bottom part of the pyramid. And the job of the not too big middle-class was to sort of act as a go-between, on the one hand carrying money back up to the top and orders down to the bottom.

      By allowing economics to move back into leadership in our societies we began a process which would take us away from this attempt at the diamond standing on a point, towards the pyramid. And indeed whenever you see those numbers that say income disparities growing, middle-class shrinking, all those numbers they’re all about taking a diamond and turning it into a pyramid. That’s what’s happening to us.

      We’re moving away from our social victory, towards the disaster which we avoided earlier in this century”

      So those who think postioning for the middle class vote are in fact relying on a rapidly decreasing sector.

      • Colonial Viper 17.3.1


        What some people don’t realise is that everyone – even the top 10% – has been going backwards compared to the top 1% to 2%. And inequality in the top 1% to 2% is actually utterly massive.

        This presentation from the RSA opened my eyes to a few basic facts.

        We’re not turning into a “pyramid” in terms of wealth and income distribution. We’re turning into a pyramid with a massively high but needle thin Sky Tower structure built on top of it.

      • Tracey 17.3.2

        thanks for this…

        the middle are being led round by the nose by the seriously wealthy, when the shit hits the fan again, and it will, the seriously wealthy will be just fine…

        • Colonial Viper

          History shows that when the real shit hits the real fan, people end up swinging from lamp posts.

          • alwyn

            This sounds serious.
            Where can we set up the guillotine in Wellington?
            I wonder if Midland Park, fairly near to Parliament is suitable?
            If we want to put it close to the GG’s residence it would have to be on the Basin Reserve.
            I shall be getting out the knitting needles in anticipation.

            • Murray Olsen

              Have you sent the link to this comment to all your RWNJ mates? What a ridiculous load of rubbish.

              • alwyn

                I thought it was pretty much in line with Colonial Viper’s comment on people swinging (he means hanging if you don’t understand it) from lamp posts.
                Still if you are upset I suppose all I can suggest is “diddums!”

                • Murray Olsen

                  Not upset at all except that I suspect you are trying to insert suggestions of violence into this blog, so that they can be pointed at later by the right. CV was talking about history. You understand exactly what you are doing. I wouldn’t be surprised if you had Blubber Boy on speed dial. Stick your diddums where the sun don’t shine.

                  • alwyn

                    Don’t be so thick. The guillotine and the knitting were two hundred years ago.
                    If Colonial Viper is upset I will withdraw the remark. You, I will in future, totally ignore.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.4

      Who do they have in mind when they refer to it?

      IMO, those on greater than $60k per year individual income. They really don’t seem to be able to comprehend that the majority of people have less income than that.

  17. Not a PS Staffer 18

    From the Dim Post:

    “Stuart Nash – who won Napier after his opponent resigned and a Conservative Party candidate split the right-wing vote – is offering to tour the country teaching other Labour candidates how to win electorates.”

    Such a humble and helpful man. I wonder if the other Labour candidates will have the support of Simon Lusk too?

    • Chris 18.1

      It’s just unbelievable after all that’s gone on with Labour – its lurch to the right, leadership disasters, destroying Mana, handing a resuscitated Maori Party to John Key, election trouncing, ongoing public internal warring – that the only thing that’s come out if it is a decision to adopt a filth strategy taken straight out of what Hager exposed Key and his mates were up to in his book Dirty Politics. I wonder what else Odger’s mate Nash has planned for Labour? Things just get better and better!!!

    • Draco T Bastard 18.2

      Yep, all you have to do is be like Nash – just get a well known CCCP member in there to contest with National.

      Preferential voting is essential to electorates if we don’t get rid of electorates altogether. If we had that then Nash could be put rightfully in his place.

    • “..Stuart Nash – who won Napier after his opponent resigned and a Conservative Party candidate split the right-wing vote – is offering to tour the country teaching other Labour candidates how to win electorates.”

      step one:..find a well-known reactionary…

      step two:..get them to stand against yr national party opposition..

      step three:..this will split the rightwing vote…

      ..and so will enable you to come thru the middle..

      n.b..and get this..!..you will win the seat by getting only the same amount of votes as the last time you stood…when you lost..how cool is that..!

      (now..this is how nash won napier..if he tries to tell you any different..he is bullshitting..

      ..and i dunno why nash has to tour around telling people..how he won napier..

      ..it’s dead simple really..

      ..couldn’t he just send out a group-email worded roughly like the above..?

      ..you’d think..?

      ..and i wd like to find out if garth mcvicar..nashs’ vote-splitter ..if he has yet received a thank you note from nash..

      ..it’d only be polite..eh..?..)

    • Tracey 18.4

      has he said how he will arrange a third person to split the vote for them…

  18. Roflcopter 19

    So Cunliffe pulls out the gay card on Robertson… this will end well.

  19. Saarbo 20

    I reckon the NZ dairy industry is approaching a crisis situation and this may behind the RBNZ intervening in the currency. The dairy industry are so worried about where the Whole Milk Powder market is currently sitting (USD$2700 per tonne) that they seem to have gone into a state of denial and have priced the Fonterra dairy payout to dairy farmers at $5.35, which amazingly assumes an underlying price of Whole milk Powder of USD $3500 by March of 2015, very brave. One thing I know about commodities is that they are nearly impossible to forecast, not one bank economist forecast this current crisis…they conveniently are blaming it on Ukraine/Russia situation but in fact most of this crisis has been created by an increase in supply from USA and Europe, which bank economists should have been able to factor in.

    If the international dairy market stays around USD$2700 for WMP then according to Con William (ANZ, the only bank economist worth listening too currently) the dairy payout should be around $4.30 to $4.50…which is crisis, not only for our dairy farms but also the regions that rely on dairy.

    If Labour can pull their act together, there will be more material to work with in election 2017…our economy is about to go through some very tough times, hence why I reckon RBNZ are doing what they are doing.

    This link from Rod Oram’s SST in the weekend is scary for NZ and Nationals aspiration around dairy farming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1dfg10N3DQ

    NZ urgently needs more than dairy commodities to drive our economy, which was a big part of Labours policy.

    • BM 20.1

      You can’t just magic up new industries.

      • yeshe 20.1.1

        KDC knows how to; shame you and yr ilk have so poisoned the chalice so we all have to choke on it.

        • BM

          KDC is just a larger version of the mono rail guy from the Simpsons.

          Don’t be so gullible.

        • Naki man

          “KDC knows how to; shame you and yr ilk have so poisoned the chalice so we all have to choke on it.”
          Do you think NZ companies should get involved in what might well be criminal activities so they can get shut down by the FBI.
          You sound like Munter Bradbury, have you forgotten to take your meds?

          • yeshe

            BM, Naki man .. you know nothing of his innovative business genius. You are poisoned by your own harpoons.

            This is a man who founded a business that carried 4% of all internet traffic. Let’s accept that criminality is alleged; accepted by some, refuted by others. But regardless, he founded and managed a business taking 4% of ALL internet traffic.

            KDC has created now an encrypted series of systems including video, proved by appearance of Edward Snowden at Town Hall.

            KDC has been forced to create and run his LEGAL businesses from outside of NZ due to NSA/USA interferences.

            KDC wanted and wished to co-fund a new cable for NZ .. never going to happen because of NSA etc.

            Personally, I would have preferred he was able to work with us us, for us, as he intended.

            Other than denying NSA access, I cannot see how criminality could possibly concern the NZ govt. ( That is kind of a very big joke isn’t it !!! Don’t know if you’ll get it though.)

          • Draco T Bastard

            Do you think NZ companies should get involved in what might well be criminal activities so they can get shut down by the FBI.

            Hey, look at that – a leading question from a RWNJ as can be expected because they fail to have an actual argument.

            You sound like Munter Bradbury, have you forgotten to take your meds?

            And then followed by an ad hominem.

            • Tracey

              it helps when naki man has no memory of who bent the rules to bring kdc and dongliu into NZ

              • Naki man

                Labour gave dongliu residency and the government didn’t bend the rules to let kdc in however I agree that in hindsight it was a huge mistake.

          • Tracey

            you mean like kdc and dongliu, both bought to us courtesy of the lack of ethics of the national party??!?

      • mickysavage 20.1.2

        Especially if you put all your effort into dairy farming. There is no diversification, there is no strategic approach, all we have is more and more farms, more and more pollution and a more unstable economy.

        • BM

          Our strengths are primary goods.

          There is more to NZ than just dairy farming though.

          • mickysavage

            There should be but a strategy of just increasing dairy output could end in tears if the market keeps moving against us.

            • BM

              I agree, it’s never a good idea to be solely reliable on one income stream.

              I think one of the main issues we face with dairy farms is that the farms are grossly over valued which has lead to massive intensification.

              Without that intensification a lot of farms wouldn’t be financially viable, the problem though is that the land can’t cop with the added inputs which is causing massive issues with water quality.

            • Kiwiri

              Ends in tears for us but taking comfort from knowledge that milk helps those countering tear gas effects.

              • Colonial Viper


                I see protestors in HK using plastic film wrap to protect their bodies from the tear gas particulates. (Tear gas is not a gas)

                • Minarch

                  soak a bandanna or any other cloth in apple-cider vinegar or lemon juice

                  and wear swimming goggles

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Yep also a rain coat or similar is useful in preventing contamination of your clothes by ‘tear gas dust.’

          • Tracey

            like forestry?

        • Murray Olsen

          We’re doing what Nauru did with phosphate. Maybe Oz will be happy to set up detention centres all over the countryside once dairy has wrecked it completely?

      • Saarbo 20.1.3

        Nats strategy to double exports, mainly via Dairy doesnt look good…just dropped $6b in a year. labour will encourage value add, in fact this is exactly what David Cunliffe specialised in when he was with BCG.

      • Draco T Bastard 20.1.4

        No magic needed – just decent government funded research and development similar to what the US government does for its industry. Do that and we would soon be world leaders in:

        1. IT
        2. Manufacturing
        3. Arts
        4. Diverse agriculture

        etc, etc

        • BM

          Yeah, that’s the secret formula right there.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Works well for the US and has done so for some decades. The UK and other countries are trying to copy it now but aren’t doing quite so well because, IMO, they’re relying too much on the private sector.

            • BM

              So we need to be relying on the tax payer.?

              I’m sure the voter will see the positives of funds being redirected from hospitals and schools to NZ’s space exploration program.
              I like it, put me down for a $20, Kiwis in Spaaaaaaaaaace.

              • Draco T Bastard

                So we need to be relying on the tax payer.?

                Moron, who else do you think we rely on? I know the rich want you to think it’s them but it’s not – the resources we use belong to NZ and not the rich.

                I’m sure the voter will see the positives of funds being redirected from hospitals and schools to NZ’s space exploration program.

                And why would we do that? Much better to redirect those resources from, as an example, McDs and Burger King.

        • higherstandard


        • Colonial Viper

          We need to pick and choose Draco, and the emphasis needs to go on infrastructure and societal systems which will take us through climate change, fossil fuel depletion and de-globalisation.

    • Tracey 20.2

      the currency intervention was indeed to offset drops in prices by lowering of dollar. currency traders LIVE off inside information, especially from federal reserves,,, ce tral banks.

      • yeshe 20.2.1

        we are left to wonder how much key would have made thru his blind ( yeah, right!) aldgate and whitechapel trusts.

        he would be the penultimate inside trader as he proved with his tranzrail shares. and i bet he has made millions through being pm.

    • Kiwiri 21.1

      Milk, among a few things, would be good to counter the effects of tear gas and pepper spray.

      Hong Kong pre-democracy marchers should be supported by the supply of more NZ milk powder 😐

  20. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 22

    “Divisions within the Labour Party are widening”

    National Radio’s lead on the midday bulletin. Can’t imagine what ZB led with.

    • Puckish Rogue 22.1

      Everyone knows National Radio is a right-wing corporate funded entity with ties to Cameron Slater so best just to ignore it

      • higherstandard 22.1.1

        I thought the official line was that they were a mix of corporate shills, 1 percenters and class traitors.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Thats why we need public media, because you can’t trust those capitalist running dogs!

  21. Marksman33 23

    I thought Mahuta-Coyle on Q and A was a demented shree, Dickhead Gavin Ellis thought she was great. This is the sort of shit we are up against. God help me.

  22. I want to inform everybody here that the Facebook page known as John Key has disappointed New Zealand is back up and running as per yesterday evening. They must have had an awful lot of complaints for that to have happened but it is good to know that Facebook is still working for people who need a place to gather and organize for political goals. Go John Key has let down New Zealand!

  23. Not a PS Staffer 25

    I just heard Phil Goff answer a question on whether he thought David Cunliffe should have resigned.
    Goff said that he resigned in 2011 when he lost the General Election and that he believes he did the right thing.

    So what did Goff do? He worked with a small clique to install Parker as leader. When Parker bombed in a TV debate with Cunliffe, Goff and Robertson pulled Parker and pushed Shearer to the front. Shearer had not been in Parliament for a full term and had been totally invisble in that time.

    Is that what Phil Goff calls doing the right thing? Shame on you Phil.

    • Puddleglum 25.1

      But David Cunliffe has resigned.

      The Press Editorial – interestingly – thinks that Cunliffe resigning and then putting himself forward again is actually the right thing for him to have done.

      • Not a PS Staffer 25.1.1

        My point is that Goff in part created the current mess by firstly trying to ordain a leader without wider consultation and secondly by picking a totally unsuitable candidate like Shearer.

  24. Ronnie Chow 26

    The Labour party is no longer a party of the working man, but one for beneficiaries and social engineers. The battle for a 40 hour week has been won, and lost again by choice as people chase the consumer society dream. Weekend trading means more hours of work available to more people and from the looks of the crowds at Mitre 10, Pak n Save and the Warehouse on the weekend, the consumers are enthusiastically looking to consume.

    [lprent: Off topic and not for the first time now I look at it. Banned 16 weeks because you look like a stupid troll and I find you need a robust warning. Moved to OpenMike. I suggest you read the policy if you want to avoid my personal attention. ]

    • Colonial Viper 26.1

      Come on man, how about a serious comment? One with a bit of guts to it. The Labour Party as a political party for beneficiaries? What a joke. The biggest state beneficiaries in NZ are corporations. The NZ underclass are barely represented by the NZ Labour Party.

      As for your “Social engineers” comment lol. It’s funny when right wingers say things which point straight to themselves. “Social engineering” is what neoliberalism has done to this once fine nation, firstly through Rogernomics then Ruthanasia. Turned it into a country full of ravenous consumers. Which you seem so proud of. You social engineer you.

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 26.2

      Thanks, Ronnie.

      [lprent: Ummmph.. ]

    • Enough is Enough 26.3

      And that has what to do with David Parker’s elevation?

      [lprent: My thought as well. ]

    • ropata 26.4

      Stop making comments on political blogs then. That’s social engineering right there. Thoughtcrime!

    • the pigman 26.5

      Cactus Kate, is that you?

      I tried getting a handle of who you are/your politics and all google turned up was your hundreds of comments on WhaleOil.

      I’d say that says it all.

    • lurgee 26.6

      If you hadn’t already checked, the post is a c & p from Whaleoil. Unclear if Ronnie Chow is the actual author on WO.


      Be interesting to see if other posts by Ronnie can be sourced to the same article. Well, when I say interesting, I mean pretty dull.

      I often base posts on my blog on stuff I’ve said here, and base stuff I say here on comments I’ve made on my blog. I don’t see why I should have to be clever and find two ways of saying the same thing if I’ve already said it once quite well.

      But this looks more like deliberate spamming with (presumably) someone else’s branes.

      EDIT – I checked another of Chow’s posts. Guess what! You’ll never guess! It came from the same source! Whoddathunked it?

      • the pigman 26.6.1

        Well spotted! (I’d say hours of reading political blogs have given us all pretty finely-tuned bullshit detectors. Thank god those hours weren’t in vain! ;))

        • lurgee

          Google busting a few more of Ronnie Chow’s posts is bemusing. Most of his / her posts are quotes. Whaleoil seems to be a recent thing. Other sources include The Beverley Hill Billies, the Art of War and a character study of Dick Cheney. Some at least seem to have some vague attempt to make themselves relevant to the post, but it looks very much like someone playing with quotes in an effort to look cunning.

          • the pigman

            Haha, so more like an advanced RW spambot? At least the Gormless Fool was tickled…


  25. xanthe 27

    is my memory false or was pike river labours poster child for the extractive pillage industry.

  26. just saying 28

    laughed out loud.

    [lprent: Why? Moved to Open Mike as probably being off topic. ]

  27. xanthe 29

    On 12 March 2004, Minister of Conservation Chris Carter approved the access arrangement for Pike River Coal Ltd……. wikipedia what do they know anyway

    • Tracey 29.1

      but they didnt have power when it opened or when it was failing its employees in favour of profit.

      with your logic you will be saying nats economic management was only possible due to labours surplus and paying down of debt

  28. Fats 30

    Picking holes in National’s selections should be the least of your priorities.

    How about choosing a leader who actually represents NZ workers? Labour hasn’t had a leader like that in decades (although Helen Clark made a good job of faking it).

    How about policies that put ordinary NZers first instead of your union paymasters?

    For example, why can’t we experiment more in education? Oh, that’s right – it might upset two of our biggest unions.

    Why can’t you have a united caucus?

    Why is the Labour party so desperately and tragically out of touch.

    I remember when everyone knew our local Labour MP by name. He was part of the community, but too many Labour MPs (thankfully, not all) parachute in for surgery and to drum up votes during elections.

    Get your house in order and I might even think about supporting you and even making a donation – but pull your head out of the sand, use this election defeat as an opportunity to make serious reforms.

    [lprent: 16 week ban for deliberately going off topic. ]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 30.1

      Why do you hate freedom of expression and association? Are you a Quisling, or just a cretin?

      I vote Green, by the way, and I can still notice when a fool is talking shit about the Labour party.

    • framu 30.2

      “How about policies that put ordinary NZers first instead of your union paymasters?

      For example, why can’t we experiment more in education? Oh, that’s right – it might upset two of our biggest unions.”

      why do people like you come here and repeat the same tired ignorant mistakes?

    • Naki man 30.3

      Excellent post Fats
      You nailed it. These guys hate the truth. Denial and blaming the media is so much easier.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 30.3.1

        “Union paymasters”

        The touchstone of Fats’ facile fatuous flailing is a transparent smear.

        Union of what, exactly?

        Why do you hate New Zealanders, trash? Please do it within my earshot and arms’ reach sometime.

      • framu 30.3.2

        the only thing hes nailed is his idiocy to a post for all to see

        “How about choosing a leader who actually represents NZ workers? ”
        umm . john key? don brash? bill english? – and in the future – collins? bennet? joyce?
        How about policies that put ordinary NZers first instead of your union paymasters?
        nat and act policy? – nat and act paymasters?
        “Oh, that’s right – it might upset two of our biggest unions.”
        the education unions arent opposed to good policy – they are opposed to the corporatisation of education – something they have been clear and consistant about, have provided other solutions to address the issue and have been utterly ignored, yet again, by national
        “Why is the Labour party so desperately and tragically out of touch. ”
        Why does the national party need to stage manage their leaders profile? Surely someone that in touch doesnt need PR?
        “but too many Labour MPs (thankfully, not all) parachute in for surgery and to drum up votes during elections.”
        helensville – john key – and thats just a freebie, theres more

        Maybe the pair of you could argue beyond a slogan? Theres plenty of topics to choose – but it seems boorish sniping and binary simplistic black/white arguments is all you can muster

    • steve 30.4

      totally agree Fats, but dont expect any common sense to prevail on this blog, the vast majority are beating the same drum that will keep them in opposition for the next 2 terms minimum.
      meanwhile the nats look to grow the economy and their support base, which by the way is substantial.
      Problem for Labour is they have no options for leader, imagine them having a mandate to run the country, they cant even run their own Caucus!

      • Tracey 30.4.1

        keep them in opposition… so you voted against the left but claim you support a party for workers… no wonder key owns you lot

      • One Anonymous Bloke 30.4.2

        With milk prices down looking is as far as they’ll get, especially as their policies will reduce the median wage further as house and power prices inflate.

        But but but but Lllllaaaabbbboooouuurrrr!

      • framu 30.4.3

        “but dont expect any common sense to prevail on this blog, the vast majority are beating the same drum that will keep them in opposition”

        didnt realise the standard was in govt these days

        keep it up steve – your a shinning beacon of intellect

      • dv 30.4.4

        “nats look to grow the economy

        HEY Steve
        Noticed the current Debt
        NZ$ 93,047,494,243

    • Tracey 30.5

      yeah you sound like someone who voted Left, but not for Labour…

      good god. ..

    • tc 30.6

      Shouldn’t you address these concerns to Labour, this is ‘the standard’ and IMO this house is in tip top working order.

      • Tracey 30.6.1

        because farrar and slaters blogs are paid for and used by national and act these folk assume this is bought and paid and used by labour… they base these assumptions on their own standards of behaviour…

  29. xanthe 31

    ahh yes its all coming back now the lovely brochures with unsullied bush and mountain ranges. labours message that we could have our environmental cake and eat it too. without all that messy regulatory stuff. in hindsight (ahh a lovely luxury) an unbroken rodgernomic policy. just how far back does labours unravelling go?

  30. Puckish Rogue 32

    JC: Hold on a sec. You are a leader, and you are a bright man. Why didn’t they vote for you?

    DC: I think at the end of the day, people wanted stability. They wanted prosperity. They saw the current government, for now, delivering that for them, and they weren’t prepared to take what they saw as some kind of risk for a change.

    Yep National Cunliffe all right, fear someone else might replace him! 🙂

  31. hoom 33


    “I happen to actually support the view that the Governor has that the exchange rate is over valued, so if they have intervened, it would be a matter for them, but it would seem fairly logical,” Key told reporters this afternoon.

    “I think at the level we’re at, [US]78 odd cents, we’re still at very high levels.”

    Asked what the correct level would be, Key indicated it was much lower than it is today.

    “In the end, the Goldilocks rate, not too high, not too low, just about right, I don’t know, [US]65 cents maybe, certainly … lower than it is today,” Key said.

    Didn’t Helen Clark get in trouble for similar comments?
    Something about undermining the independence of the Reserve Bank I believe…

    Edit: Ugh apparently Farrar already pointed this out & it was Cullen

  32. halfcrown 34

    Did anyone see Prime News @5.30pm last night?
    There was a news item stating there is concern over the health of the Hauraki Gulf because there is a large increase in pollution in the Gulf caused by the runoffs from the dairy farms on the Hauraki Plains.
    It looks as if the Rock Star Economy is about to turn to custard now the price of the overproduced milk powder has collapsed (funny how that snippet of news was kept until after the election) along with our clean green image. Also, this once, fair minded beautiful and ” safe” country may turn out to be not so safe now Fucking Key like that prat Abbott in Oz, with his nose right up Obama’s arse has stated that he may (will) support the yanks with ground forces in their latest adventure.

  33. Puckish Rogue 35


    – You won’t die wondering what this guy thinks

    • DoublePlus Good 35.1

      His argument of Grant Robertson being somehow better because he’s a little younger is pretty ridiculous.
      Also, he has a problem with this: “You ran for leader and lost, then destabilised the elected leader.” when David Cunliffe does it. But it’s acceptable when Grant Robertson, David Shearer, Trevor Mallard and friends destabilise the leader.
      I think he needs to come up with some more solid reasons for not liking David Cunliffe than ‘he lost’. Because Robertson would have lost too.

  34. “..6 terrifying reasons why it’s time to stop eating meat..

    ..From disgusting slaughterhouse conditions –

    – to devastating health consequences –

    – the evidence keeps piling up..”



  35. heh..!..parker just said on nat-rad that he/labour wd like to ‘reach out to the people..to see what they think about labour’..

    ..can i suggest they take the shortcut of reading the comment-threads @ the standard..?

    ..that should give them a fair idea..eh..?

    • King Kong 37.1

      It would be a good place to start in order to canvass opinions from the self important and the down right deluded.

    • cricko 37.2

      Kinda like your comments @ 2 @7am above represent Labours opinion ?

      Maybe it would give David Parker a handle on how nasty hate ridden myopic deviants
      such as yourself think.

      As long as we have hate filled silly billies like you just screaming out invective we will never get anywhere except to invite derision.

      Reasoned, thoughtfull argument from the likes of David Parker will trump the screamed hatefull, personal spite your type can’t resist and will eventually prevail.

      Do us a favour and STFU phillip.

      • phillip ure 37.2.1

        @ crico..

        ..can i suggest the ingestion of a (vegan) kit-kat..?

        ..or maybe a cup of tea and wee lie-down..?

        ..i’m not feeling the love..eh..?

        ..and i had a look at comment two..

        ..are you a green..?

        ..or a dunne-fan..?..(what we know as ‘a dunny’..)

      • Draco T Bastard 37.2.2

        The reasoned thoughtful comments are what got us into the present mess and are taking us to ecological collapse. It was revolution and not being all that reasonable that got us out of feudalism and into democracy, got us the 40 hour week, the minimum wage and good working conditions. Being reasonable over the last 30 years has lost us a lot of those and is about to lose even more of them.

        I think it’s time to stop being fucken reasonable.

        • ropata

          Farragoblog and the MSM are the “reasonable” face of the right wing corporate takeover. Gonna take some loud shouting to shake NZ from its slumber.

  36. why are the media so wetting their collective-knickers over this labour leadership contest..?

    ..throwing words like ‘ugly’..’disasterous for labour party’..

    ..and assorted hysterical bullshit..

    ..these drama-queens need to get a grip..

    ..it’s a contest..not a tea-party..

    ..and when the dust settles..a labour leader will emerge..

    ..it’s just the way things are done..

    ..of course..it’s different in national..

    ..a small power-clique in the party just imposes their choice on the national party sheepies..

    ..and they all ‘baa!’ on cue..

    ..i’ve never seen media collective knicker-wetting over that..

    ..and this is the best/only choice for labour..

    ..a good old-fashioned contest of ideas..

    ..what’s wrong with that..?

    ..caucus imposing robertson on the party/unions..

    ..would just see their support melt away…

    ..so that was no option..

    ..and it is a right vs. left contest..

    ..robertson the person pushing the same neo-lib line that has got them to this place..

    ..and cunnliffe..a progressive voice..

    ..promising root and branch reform..

    ..and the discarding of those neo-lib dictates..

    ..it’s a clear choice for those voting..

    ..vote for the past..

    ..or vote for the future..

  37. adam 39

    You know something’s seriously FUBAR when Ron Paul is the voice of reason. And on the issue of ISIS and in this interview Ron Paul is a very good. I disagree with his economics, but I agree with most his analysis on this issue. And were going to be willing participants in this stupidity. Long live FEAR! Fear is the mind killer.

  38. joe90 40

    Went looking for source of Tariana Turia’s ridiculous comment about beaten wives and as expected it was a supporters brain fart but this comment, wow, says it all really.

    Tanenuiarangi Harawira (Part 1 of 2) I know I am sounding like a broken record whanau but I agree with your sentiments Dion. This is because as we all should know Left or Right, there is not that much practical difference in terms of outcomes for us. Stepping back for a minute, if you think about it, in 1984-1987 the Labour government planted the seeds of the impoverishment that of many of our people, especially in isolated rural communities, have been consigned to through inter-generational welfare dependancy, alcohol and drug abuse and domestic violence. Those seeds have been watered and nutured by the policies of successive governments Left and Right over a generation. They did this by implementing corporatisation then privatisation of the former government departments and agencies like Post, Forests, Coal, Works, Electricity and mainstreaming in terms of Maori Affairs. National then carried it on from 1990 to 1999. Most of these departments and ministries employed thousands of Maori mostly in rural communities. When they all lost their jobs – because it was cheaper for the government to pay the benefit than wages – that policy gutted our communities. To add insult to injury the SOEs in the power space then put up their prices, for example almost by 70% under the Helen Clark government’s watch. These policies also disabled our isolated rural communities by shutting down vital infrastructure like Post Offices and Banks. Do you remember when we used to even have a functioning post office at Te Kaha?


    • adam 40.1

      Hey Iprent the link Joe 90 just put up is a very good reading – it’s long, but it deserves not to be buried at the bottom Open Mike. 🙂

      • Chooky 40.1.1

        +100 joe 90 and adam…a very good historical overview ( needs a special place..so people can refer to it and be reminded)

        …this is why i would like to see Nanaia Mahuta as Deputy of a Labour Party which goes back to its roots pre Roger Douglas and the corporatisation and privatisation Neolib virus that hit Labour

        ….and tries to redress all the wrongs done since the early 1980s

        …if Labour can not do this …it will be up to other parties eg. Internet /Mana and the Greens and NZF

  39. Ecosse_Maidy 41

    Great! Just what we need a three year debate on who gonna be the Best Leader of Labour. Another bout of lets blame the MSM, crap Pollsters, the MMP system, demographic analyis of A,B,C etc etc: So lets not talk shite about things we cant change!Do you really think by changing the figurehead will induce people to Vote Labour? Do you think that will connect and electrify nearly one million people whom felt that disenfanchised from the political process, they stayed at home and prefered 3 yrs more of A National Kicking to Voting Labour.
    It’s not about who’s face is the Leader, it cant be!
    It has to be how we reflect peoples hopes, dreams, fears and not project our ideas onto them! We need to engage these people not talking about introducing a CGT, Latte Tax or some sort of bollocks…yet Social Housing, Health, Education, Employment.
    We need to disengage ourselves from The Green Party. They have good intentions, yes, Yet…it confuses people, Green/Labour or Labour/Green. Labour with Green Spots. Its confuses the electorate and hands the Right Wing Fascists free ammunition. Labour should announce to all, their intention in three years time is too form a majority government, no if’s, no buts, no alliances, no pacts, no tactical voting end of. And let The Green Party, with no hard feelings fly solo and stand on their own two feet.
    I don’t want Labour to be consigned to a dusty section of a political history book. I want Labour reflect views, to engage, to connect with the missing million. If we can do that Comrades. It wont matter if Krusty The Bloody clown is Labours Leader…Get The Policies Right and those people next time, will feel more inclined to get off the sofa, switch off the tv, go to the polling station and Vote Labour.

  40. One Anonymous Bloke 42

    The ALCP to UF: What about us Mr. Shipman?

    • adam 42.1

      Just like another last call, it means nothing at all,
      You either kiss a lot of ass, or tear the clock off the wall,
      Another warning ignored another sign of the times,
      They say the sky is gonna fall, so why not drink till your blind
      So when the company wants another company-man,
      Or when the company wants another 1,000 year plan
      You’ll let your boot go up the road you cannot possibly trust,
      Till the screaming hits the ceiling and you ask:

      “What About Us?

  41. tricle up 43

    Your policies and direction are part of the total and positioning across the spectrum should fluctuate stealing if one must a little on the right ,the underlying principles must be set before or after the internal vote then drop the leader on the record and let him dance ..more fool me for listening to mischievous nonsense . A sensible vibrant renewal plan would resonate with my desires for a rising domestic economy i guess voting for personality blinds maybe the average kiwi votes with there pockets realizing or not the fleecing will be ripped in the next step johns average kiwi voters open to the dictations, i can slag jk as much i like but really its the overriding policies of the right , as the next election approaches a strong leader is a must ..the choice is easy ..really the economy is not bursting and probably is one tank feeding the other and the back again ,the gloss is nothing but gloss, more structure for growth let it manifest or etch in our dumb minds …

  42. Murray Olsen 44

    And the Herald keeps being a loyal servant with its choice of headlines. FFS, there’s nothing bizarre about anything reported here. This is once again the technique of defining things by naming them.


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  • APEC trade ministers’ unite on COVID-19 vaccine steps and rejuvenating the WTO
    APEC trade ministers today committed to speeding up the cross-border flow of vaccines and related goods to fight the COVID-19 pandemic. This followed the completion of the APEC Ministers Responsible for Trade Meeting chaired by Minister for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor early this morning. “As we face the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago