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Open mike 30/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:50 am, November 30th, 2014 - 127 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

question everything why?-1Open mike is your post.

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127 comments on “Open mike 30/11/2014 ”

  1. karol 1

    A very good bit of undercover research from Josh Fagan on Stuff – undercover in a South Auckland boarding house, where those with least struggle in dire circumstances.

    It shows everything wrong with current housing laws and government policies.

    I’m staying for two nights in the Pacific Pearl Lodge in the South Auckland suburb of Mangere – home to 58 tenants and about 20 children, advertised on a roadside sign as “budget accommodation”.

    Residents are split between transients and long-termers, some of them here for more than 15 years. Babies learn to walk in scruffy conditions alongside a mixed bag of residents from tough backgrounds. Children’s toys and prams are dotted across the living area and courtyard.
    The family rooms are about 2m by 3m and cost $210 per week: double beds are shared by parents and two or three young children. Single rooms and caravans are even smaller, and cost $150 per week for a single bed and set of drawers. The list of tenancy rules cover two A4 pages and warns police will be notified for any violence or drinking onsite. Visitors are forbidden after 10pm.

    In this over-priced accommodation one tenant says it’s very like a prison. The article reeks of despondency and hopelessness.

    The people living in such boarding houses and the forgotten and rejected sections of our society. Not much of a rock star economy for them.

    As I finished reading the article, I felt like weeping.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

      Our biggest beneficiaries are under the spotlight in today’s news article.
      No stats around about how this effects the children involved in terms of physical and sexual abuse. I don’t think the lack of statistical information means these kids are safe.

      On my first morning, police and Work and Income NZ visit. That night, there’s a drunken scuffle and one man tries to take his own life in his bedroom.

      • karol 1.1.1

        The tone of the article suggests it’s not a great place for kids to be living.

        • AsleepWhileWalking

          True, but I feel the need to drive home the point. The Beyond the Darklands TV series is full of children who lived in unpredictable homes during formative years.

          • Karen

            … and emergency departments of hospitals struggle to cope with the serious damage to the health of people forced to live in these conditions.

            It is an appalling and dangerous situation from a human rights point of view, but it is also makes no sense economically. The cost of the state providing decent housing is far less than the downstream costs in the health and justice systems that will inevitably ensue.

            It is shameful that NZ allows this situation continue.

            • Inky

              About 30 years ago while on my OE in the UK, I met a divorced woman with kids and ended up living with her on a council estate. There were some extremely poor people there, living in absolutely wretched conditions. Neighbours used to knock the door and ask to borrow loo paper or a few pence to buy a single cigarette at the corner shop. Yes, single ciggies were sold because so many people couldn’t afford to buy a pack. The streets were full of rubbish and many houses had broken windows covered by the black plastic from rubbish bags because they didn’t have the money to pay for a new window. I’d never seen poverty like it. There were two consolations for me. One was the knowledge that, unlike so many on that estate, I had a way out when I wanted to take it. I could go back to NZ. But most of the people there would be stuck in that situation forever, knowing that would be their lot until the day they died. The other consolation was that I’d never seen such miserable conditions in Godzone. At least my fellow Kiwis didn’t have to experience such a depressingly sad lifestyle with virtually no hope, I thought. Now, after Josh Fagan’s report, I have to accept that Kiwis are indeed in such a situation. And there seem to be a lot of them. Families are charged about $240 a week to live in one cramped room, in the sort of rundown place you’d think was straight out of the Great Depression. If single you get a grotty pre-historic-looking caravan for nearly as much. There’s an atmosphere of hopelessness — and little wonder, it’s no way to live. These people are left in sub-standard accommodation, with nothing to look forward to. No wonder so many kids growing up in such an environment end up going off the rails. Their attitude must be, well no one’s ever given a stuff about me so I won’t give a stuff about anyone else. What an absolute bloody disgrace that this is going on in NZ in the year 2014.

            • Murray Rawshark

              The government doesn’t care about the costs to the taxpayer, as long as their landlord mates and their Serco mates can make a profit. Right wingers see homeless people not as a problem, but as an opportunity to profit from. If the state provided decent houses, people would stop paying extortionate rents.

    • miravox 1.2

      “As I finished reading the article, I felt like weeping.”

      To make it worse, Mangere is in the list of Landlords’ top suburbs

      Making money by creating misery with no alleviation in sight

      Landlords with three-bedroom houses in Otara, rented for a median $450/week, got a 21.8 per cent return (yield and capital gain) followed by Mangere (21.7 per cent) and Glen Innes and Mangere Bridge (21.3 per cent).

      …Glen Sowry, Housing New Zealand Corporation chief executive, said rental housing demand was high in Mangere where rental yields had not increased but valuations were well up.

      “But rental increases place pressure on a lot of lower socio-economic families so the percentage of income required for rent has grown substantially and that places pressure on our services,” Sowry said.

      “At the moment, Mangere is not one of the areas for heaps of development in the immediate future because we have lots of other opportunities in south and west Auckland,”

      • Paul 1.2.1

        Great letter to Mary Holm in the Herald yesterday.

        ‘As a society, how did we allow residential property to become just another investment asset class? And how did we come to admire people who have become wealthy through investing in multiple residential property ownership?

        I hear residential property investors claiming, “We’re only saving for our retirement”. Correction – you are using people who are poorer than yourself to save for your retirement. And you are doing it by depriving a family of home ownership for every house you buy, gaining advantage from tax breaks that are not available to home buyers who just wish to live in a property.

        That is not an admirable thing to do. In fact, to take advantage of others less fortunate than yourself is a despicable thing to do. Mary, with respect, you need to grasp this ethical issue “nettle” and comment on it.’


        Mary (on behalf of landlords) dodges the issue.

    • millsy 1.3

      There was an expose done about this by the Listener back in 2008 when it was called Kotuku Lodge. It seems nothing has really changed.

    • Clemgeopin 1.4

      May be our wealthy cabinet ministers too should stay there for forty eight hours to understand how badly their government has failed New Zealand.

      • BassGuy 1.4.1

        After forty eight hours, it’d be a nightmare soon forgotten.

        “Oh, it wasn’t that bad, I know, I’ve lived that life,” they’d tell their critics. It wouldn’t be that bad in their memories – they wouldn’t have lived in such hovels for long enough for hopelessness to settle in.

        They certainly wouldn’t have experienced the kind of weakness one gets from not having any real food for days at a time, week after week.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.5

      The people living in such boarding houses and the forgotten and rejected sections of our society. Not much of a rock star economy for them.

      The result of the Greed is Good paradigm that we use, a paradigm that throws people away wasting the abilities that those people have that would be of high value to society if we but cared enough to help them develop those abilities.

      • tricle up 1.5.1

        Most or all things are dependent on something, systems are determined and left to run as cause and effect . Money (parachute money) goes into infrastructure and roads as a means of propping up the construction sector and reducing unemployment parachute money towards any other group still works or as BM would say we get bigger bang for our coin directed toward big business that’s still open to opinion . I am sure these people living in these poverty like situations are being degraded an the qualities of these beings needs oiling reducing them to rusty cogs serves no sane means .So many burdens or delays have been shifted to the private sectors as a means of reducing the size of holes in the budgets one has forgotten the shift of reduced tax to the higher earners whether it was to reduced the stem of job seeker to Australia or for some other reason.Ideologies can become to rigid an are in need of sensible adjustment..

    • Ergo Robertina 1.6

      Sadly it will probably take a tragedy or abuse scandal in one of the boarding houses before they are regulated.
      Steve Kilgallon’s piece that accompanied the undercover report was a good summary. The houses have fewer regulations than in the 1970s:

      ”In February 2011, after lobbying from the New Zealand Coalition to End Homelessness for a government enquiry into homelessness, the Social Services select committee agreed instead to a more narrow study of boarding houses.
      The committee took more than three years to deliver its report, which wasn’t tabled until July this year. The Minister of Building and Housing, Nick Smith – responsible for boarding houses – says the Government will offer an initial response in January and is considering “broader” reforms, including minimum standards.
      The report acknowledges a range of serious issues with boarding houses, admitting legislation was fragmented, often outdated and rarely seemed to be implemented, placing most of the burden on local councils, who showed no willingness to act. Yet it backed away from firm recommendations for law changes. To those in the sector, it was a deep disappointment.”

      And this, on the lack of rights:

      ”What makes life harder for tenants, who are already vulnerable, is their few rights. Aspinall, who has just completed a masters thesis on boarding houses, says that the few rights which tenants have are poorly enforced.
      She has seen a woman evicted by police at 3am after arguing with her landlord; 17-year-olds tied into fabricated long-term tenancies and landlords withholding bonds illegally. She also heard sad stories of tenants who had become simply too old to live in boarding houses and were evicted because of health or personal hygiene issues.
      Landlords can evict instantly in some cases, or, more usually, on 48 hours’ notice. Haddock, for example, is helping a group of boarding house tenants given 14 days to leave when the owner decided to turn their hostel into upmarket student flats.”


  2. karol 2

    And then I flicked to the NZ Herald, and read an article about one of the wealthier members of our society, born into the circles of the better-off, powerful elites: someone who seems to have had an ethics bypass, and is unapologetic about the vicious, anti-democratic and ruthless nature of his work. He claims attacking others covertly or overtly, is really just helping those with the inability to do it themselves.

    But I don’t see Carrick Graham taking on boarding house residents as clients in order to give them a voice.

    But Graham told the Herald on Sunday this week he was simply trying to turn the tide of overwhelmingly negative coverage against his client Mark Hotchin, former Hanover boss.

    And he dismissed concerns raised by the Public Relations Institute of New Zealand about the questionable ethics of his radical tactics.

    “I don’t think it surprises anyone that when they read the paper in the morning or watch the news, there is someone pushing an agenda somewhere.

    Whether it’s PR people, MPs, officials, or even the media themselves.

    “I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubbles by pretending that the world is black and white. Some people don’t communicate very well, and the tide turns against them, and that’s where I come in.”
    His new enterprise, a consultancy with Herald on Sunday Spy columnist Ricardo Simich and Auckland councillor Cameron Brewer, is growing, he said.

    His relationship with Slater goes back decades to when they both attended Auckland Grammar School, Slater a few years ahead.
    And Graham said when you hired Slater as a consultant you received the full breadth of his communication skills. Slater’s extreme views could be “unhelpful”, Graham said, but he would hire his childhood friend again if the PR strategy required it.

    • tc 2.1

      Carrick has no moral compass as do many raised in elite circles where money = morality. Like father like son.

      However it comes down to not having a decent MSM that would out these spin doctors as the hired hands they are either directly or indirectly by displaying an objective view rather than following the DP memes.

      No surprises Brewer is involved bansky junior is a nasty piece of work.

  3. jaymam 3

    The headline on the Stuff site “Deceit no way to run the country” has now been replaced with “John Key’s worst week ever”. Around midnight the link to the article stopped working, as did the links on all sites that copy Stuff articles.
    I believe censorship has occurred. Keep a look out for Duncan Garner.


    • b waghorn 3.1

      I’ve noticed other articles that are negative towards nats on stuff change title or vanish ,it also seems to me they very really do a comments section on nats negative articles.

  4. tc 4

    Labor in Victoria along with the greens have consigned the liberals to a historical single term with yesterday’s win.

    the way Abbott is going about it the same may happen federally as the arrogance, rupert favours, broken promises and general political stupidity on refugees, climate change etc may gift shorten the reigns.

    Victoria just voted in a very uncharismatic premier so personality was not a factor which helps shorten as he is as dull as.

  5. KJS0ne 5

    Even US journalists are starting to take notice of the erosion of press freedom in this country and across the ditch.


    • tc 5.1

      Yup and rupert is pissed that the abc didn’t slash where he wanted them to enough in news where he seeks less competition for his behind the pay walls ‘content’.

      Abbott is now looking to have govt intervention to sort this out, dark days for free speech and public broadcasting with their increased surveillance also just like here.

      The irony is abc closed regional facilities to deliver the govts mandate of efficiency which upset the nationals, a coalition partner and rural party, so it was a case of careful what you wish for.

      fairfax had a piece yesterday condemning ruperts control of the agenda as they would be next on his list…..interesting times.

      Watch out for an exemption or change to media cross ownership laws (hawke keating again) so rupert can control channel 10 again.

  6. Paul 6

    Bill English is not worried about lowering dairy prices.

    Just another example of how arrogant, lazy delusional and detached this government is.
    They just aren’t prepared to plan for the future.


  7. on q&a..

    ..historical-footage of duncan garner..

    ..before he ate all the pies…

    ..and took on his other career..

    ..imitating a bessa-block…

    • TheContrarian 7.1

      Hur hur hur, he’s fat.

      Hilarious Phil, you’re quite the Oscar Wilde.

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        no no..he’s not really ‘fat’..

        ..(he could be quite fit..?.)

        .it is more the bessa-block imitation that catches the eye..

        ..i don’t think i have ever seen a man who is so rectangular…

        ..slap some see-ment on his ends..

        ..and he cd become part of a retaining-wall..

        • Once was Tim

          A bit like those massive stacked concrete blocks all around Lyttleton holding up crumbling walls after the earthquake. My sis and bro-in-law call them Brownlees. They serve a purpose I ‘spose – whereas Garner, not so much

  8. rawshark-yeshe 8

    One more report for this guvmint not to read and ignore completely … by the UK Chief Scientific Adviser :


  9. Pat O'Dea 9

    UPDATE: Kim Dotcom’s bail hearing has been adjourned until tomorrow. Details of what the Crown alleges still can’t be reported.

    The Crown is applying to have Dotcom’s bail revoked. The accused pirate, money launderer and racketeer was held in Mt Eden Prison after the January 20, 2012 raid on his rented mansion before being granted bail on February 22, 2012.


    Trial by media, closed courts??!!

    This is a shocking new development, more typical of a police state.
    This a direct attack on our democracy and the right of citizens and residents to a fair trial.
    That it is being done at the behest of a foreign power makes it even more sinister.

    The Americans with the help of our government and the New Zealand state, are trying to control the narrative with secret hearings.
    The language of the media has also become more agressive, so that instead of being allowed to hear the charges being brought against Dotcom for ourselves, or even hear the state’s evidence against him, we get loaded public accusations of “racketeer” and “money launderer”.
    When the only charges we publicly know of, that Dotcom is facing, are of copyright infringement.

  10. lisa own doing some good-interview..of english..on the nation..

    • Once was Tim 10.1

      btw @PU – u probably be interested in RNZ Sunday -Peter Marshall/Holiday makers with a photo gallery on the website. Podcast be up soon

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        Once wasTim
        Peter Marshall seems a good bloke. Someone to follow on the music scene. I liked the replay of the Sweet Lovers in the Night. They were saying it still feels fresh and I can echo that.

        • Once was Tim

          Indeed – I pulled out the vinyl version just as he said it and put it on. 🙂
          I thought of PU as they reminisced briefly about Rough Justice days.
          Incidently, there’s also some good stuff today on surveillance, arachism et al, McBride, etc.

          History seems to repeat huh! They mentioned Brigadier Gilbert – the fucking old conservative (pardon…. but I have to say it) ….queen (I had to say it only because of the hypocrisy of it all) and it just seems like back to the future. Nothing learned (no ‘learnings’ or lessons). Also why I’m surprised and disappointed in Rebecca Kitteridge – I thought she was smarter than that – so far, it appears not

          • greywarshark

            @ Once was Tim
            Yes I thought radio was many-splendoured today. I’d say Wallace C is doing a good job – do you agree?

            I have to check my prejudice when it comes to women in high positions. Often they seem to be there just to toe the line that has been established by those in power. They are safe pairs of hands. viz Paul Bennett. The ones that feed my prejudice just hit one in the eye so often. It was interesting that the official choosing to charge Aaron Swartz in the USA was a woman, and I think Hispanic. Ambitious women seem eager to be the gofers for whichever is the dominant force. Might explain Kitteridge. Though the British equivalent seemed to have more steel, she published etc.

            • Once was Tim

              I tend to agree with you Mathew :p
              I understand what you’re saying. In this case, the lady in q is a mate of a sibling and I thought better of her. But it’s the old story really in whatever field or corner of society – as they climb the ranks and tend towards the ‘elite’, they find more and more excuses. That’s whether its senior policemen having affairs with brothel owners, Gilberts moralising about – and deeming people ‘risks’ whilst all the while …..
              Foreskins of the double standard, apologists for or enablers of corruption – the lot of ’em

      • phillip ure 10.1.2



  11. Pat O'Dea 11

    Copy right infringment is an offence the ruling National Party itself committed when they used the music of M&M’s signature tune ‘8 mile’ for their election ads. Which John Key himself dismissed as an offence of no consequence. However Marshall Mathers publishers didn’t see it that way.
    But the dispute was resolved in an out of court settlement in Australia.

    Which should have happened with Dotcom. For the heinous crime of copy right infringment the National Party’s premises weren’t raided by helicopters and bellaclava clad police bearing automatic weapons. National Party funds weren’t confiscated and their fleet of cars impounded.

    So if Docom is a “racketeer” and “money launderer” as the media allege, why not let us see the evidence, why not let us hear the charges being brought against him.

    • greywarshark 11.1

      Pat O’Dea
      Dotcom’s case deserves thought and understanding, I get so much of the knee jerk that he is a dastardly criminal.

  12. Penny Bright 12

    FYI folks – my following comment has been VERY unpopular on Kiwiblog (today’s General Debate)

    Anybody had it confirmed yet whether John Banks IS going to take the stand and give evidence HIMSELF under oath in his upcoming retrial?

    If not – why not?

    “Nothing to hide – nothing to fear?”

    Why not take the stand yourself John Banks – rather than rely on others to try and cover your butt on your behalf?

    Penny Bright

    • B. Adam 12.1

      May be he is scared that his cabbage boat will leak like our Beehive and sink away like the Titanic that hit a massive iceberg…..?

  13. Morrissey 13

    “The Narcs, Peking Man and my own favorite, Coconut Rough.”
    Wallace Chapman airs his execrable taste in music

    Radio NZ National, Sunday 30 November 2014

    On several occasions, this writer, i.e., moi, has commented on the failure of Wallace Chapman to do his job. Now let’s be clear about this and acknowledge that Wallace Chapman is generally a first rate radio journalist, thoughtful, well read and entertaining. But as we know, bonus dormitat Homerus….

    Open mike 27/04/2013

    Open mike 07/09/2014

    Open mike 31/08/2014

    Open mike 24/08/2014

    Open mike 13/07/2014

    This morning, however, it wasn’t Chapman’s professional failings that rang alarm bells, it was his catastrophic lack of taste. In the course of an otherwise excellent interview with musician Peter Marshall, of the great 1980s Wellington band the Holidaymakers, Chapman said the following words, which are beyond all parody: “There were a lot of top bands around in those days—The Narcs, Peking Man and my own favorite, Coconut Rough.”

    Here it is again, in its full, embarrassing crassness:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “There were a lot of top bands around in those days—The Narcs, Peking Man and my own favorite, Coconut Rough.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    The rest of the show was excellent, but expressing enthusiasm about such dire musical excrescences as The Narcs, Peking Man and—God save us all—“my own favorite, Coconut Rough”, casts doubt on the fitness of Wallace Chapman to hold such an important position on public radio. But then again, his predecessor, Chris Laidlaw, had some pretty awful tastes in music: I lost count of the number of times he played Salmonella Dub and Fat Freddy’s Drop….

  14. Penny Bright 14

    This comment was very popular either 🙂

    On the face of it – don’t you think it’s a bit odd, that two American businessmen would be present and within earshot of a discussion on political donations for an Auckland Mayoral campaign that arguably had nothing whatsoever to do with them?

    Just saying …..

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

    • Morrissey 14.1

      Best wishes Penny. You’re doing a fine job. One of these days, I am going to mount a major offensive on that smug git’s blog. Especially now that I’m banned for life from Whaleoil.

    • greywarshark 14.2

      @ Penny Bright
      He might say ‘They are just distant cousins in our family, the Cosa Nostra.’

    • felix 14.3

      Two hard-to-find American businessmen? John Palino and Luigi Wewege, pewrhaps?

  15. when i was misleading parliament last week.I did not have my PMs hat on,I had my liars hat on……..

  16. Dan1 16

    I have been interested in the word “embuggerance” surfacing in reports from the Victorian election. My initial response was that it was a neologism created by Aussie journalists.
    The truth is that it is a military expression.

    Amongst my Google explorations:

    Definition of embuggerance

    A niggling and irritating barrier or obstacle encountered when attempting to resolve a problem.

    Additional Information

    Calling a helpline number and hearing a recording, ‘Please listen to the following options, for accounts, press 1, for customer service press 2…’ etc. only to return to the original options was time wasting and an embuggerance.

    • Colonial Rawshark 16.1

      yes, a tongue in cheek derivative of the term “encumbrance”

      • Once was Tim 16.1.1

        Kind of describes the NZ Gubbamint pretty much – along with the various agencies of state AND that cabal of groupies clinging to the notion that they’re part of the 4th e-State …. describes them quite well. An embuggerance! But it’s an embuggerance that should be seen in the context of 5.1.1 above (“..the elites are no longer attempting to hide their machinations behind the private veil, the power plays are out in the open..”) – which makes it worse really when the shit hits the Kenwood Chef liquidiser (the gorgeous stainless-steel model). It’s really only time – which of course I’m running out of
        I must remember to have an embuggerance of veges and fruit tomorrow for breakfast. I’ll toast the Guv, the Kitteridge, the Gwyn, the Proim Munsta, – even the Natzi Cargo Cultists (Pulla Benefit, Soymun Brudgizz et al) as it all goes down the throat, mixes with some healthy enzimes and eventually gets shat out.

        • Colonial Rawshark

          It’s worth noting that there are several reasons why oligarchs ruling civilisations in decline eventually stop trying to hide their corruption and malfeasance and become quite blatant about it. Including:

          1) They’ve legalised the practices and/or disabled the institutions which would normally enforce the laws and standards i.e. nothing left to be afraid of.

          2) Almost everyone internally in the bureaucratic machine already understands and sees the malpractice as it is being carried out i.e. no longer any point pretending it’s not happening.

          3) Lack of time. The oligarchs themselves understand that the system is heading for collapse and are determined to take as much as they can before that happens i.e. grabbing as much loot out of the mansion as possible before it all burns down.

          • Once was Tim

            Yep CV …… #3 …… and they pretend to be good wholesome people with family values quite often. kick the can and leave the shit for their offspring and the next generation. quite cowardly when you stop to think about it

          • Draco T Bastard


  17. SISters are doin’ it for themselves…(With apologies to Annie Lennox and Aretha Franklin)

    Now there was a time when they used to say
    That behind every great spy there had to be a legitimate warrant.

    But in these times of change you know that it’s no longer true
    So we’re comin’ out of the back room
    ‘Cause there’s something we forgot to say to you

    We say:

    SISters are doin’ it for themselves,
    Goin’ on their own gut instincts an’ makin’ all their own calls.
    SISters are doin’ it for themselves!

    Now this is a song to celebrate
    The invasive powers of the National State.
    Protesters and left wing bloggers

    SISter ops targets
    We’re singing with you.
    The invasive state has got new freedoms now.

    We got minorities
    Politicians too,
    Tryin’ so hard to warn us –

    Take a look around
    They can see,
    Can you see,

    Can you see that SIS bug hidden right next to you?
    We say: SISters are doin’ it for themselves.

    Now we ain’t makin’ stories and we ain’t layin’ plans
    ‘Cause 48 hours ain’t enough to do either of them.

    Now they may say
    This is just for a while
    But a civil liberty trampled
    Usually proves hard to revive.

    And that means that –

    SISters are doin’ it for themselves.
    Now they don’t need nobody’s say so –
    SISters are doin’ it for themselves!

    -p.s. Checkout the original – it’s still glorious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGx7JkFSp4

    • edit suggestion..

      ..drop the ‘ters’ at the end of ‘sisters’..

      ..and chorus:..’s.i.s…are doing it for themselves’..

      (b.t.w..t.w.i.m.c…these skills are available for hire..@ very reasonable rates..

      ..i can make lumpen-prose sing..(not that i’m saying yr effort is lumpen..but most things can do with the odd tweak/tightening..)

      • phillip ure 17.1.1

        ie..yr first verse..

        ..”Now there was a time when they used to say
        That behind every great spy there had to be a legitimate warrant..”

        i wd tweak to ..

        ‘..Now there was a time when they used to say.

        That behind every great spying – there had to be an ‘ok!’..’

        ..(the rest of the verse works fine..)

  18. felix 18

    Yesterday on The Nation, Scott Hamilton stated as fact that:

    The Beehive, under Helen Clark, were writing posts on The Standard. This used to happen. They used to write posts against journalists. I know, because I was one of them who they wrote posts against.

    mickysavage had a look through the archives and couldn’t fine any such thing. Neither could I.

    Can Scott please front up with an example?

    • tc 18.1

      Ain’t gonna happen, smear and run DP styles from a Tory lackey.

    • Morrissey 18.2

      Can Scott please front up with an example?

      Of course he can’t. He was counting on Lisa Owen being too timid and/or too uninformed to be able to contradict him. It’s the same tactic Matthew Hooton has been getting away with for years on National Radio’s ridiculous “From the Left and Right” segment—except when he’s been unlucky enough to be on with Laila Harré or Andrew Campbell.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.3

      That should start a defamation case.

      In all of 2007/2008 this is the only article about a Scott and it’s not him.

    • felix 18.4

      Sorry, wrong name. It was Scott Campbell.

      Here are the search results:

      Three posts, all of which say nothing about Scott Campbell apart from listing him as a lobbyist and noting that he worked for John Banks and TV3.

      Why is he so embarrassed about his jobs that he thinks mentioning them is writing things against him?

      And nothing published before 2010. Th’ fuck is wrong with him?

      I would have thought that being either functionally illiterate, wildly paranoid, or having such a poor memory that one can’t recall whether things happened in real life or not would preclude one from being hired to comment on the events of the day.

    • weka 19.1

      I really like his point that we should be thinking about transport outside of the car/bike box. Not sure about skateboards getting out of their niche though unless they solve the bit where people need to carry things. Transport isn’t just about moving bodies around.

      • felix 19.1.1

        Yeah as I was watching it I tried to recall the last time I drove anywhere just to get my body to a different location. It has been quite a while.

        Appealing I suppose to the bright young things in the clip who never have use for any physical object bigger than an iPhone.

      • greywarshark 19.1.2

        Saw one boy happily skateboarding on a fairly empty road, with his water bottle in one hand texting at the same time. He could have a town backpack on which holds quite a lot and still be well balanced and not heavily burdened. We have a very nice sloping smooth road, the boys love it.

        • weka

          I was thinking groceries or library books. Once you start adding those things in the demographics shrink. Still the point is to have multiple options and to get away from the idea of big engined vehicles that have large energy and manufacture footprtints. The demographic for motorised stakeboards would increase with structural behaviour changes too (groceries get delivered by one van to a neighbourhood rather than everyone in the neighbourhood driving to the supermarket).

          • Draco T Bastard

            Still the point is to have multiple options and to get away from the idea of big engined vehicles that have large energy and manufacture footprtints.

            Yep. I use the bike to go pretty much everywhere these days but use the bus when I have to carry stuff like shopping.

            (groceries get delivered by one van to a neighbourhood rather than everyone in the neighbourhood driving to the supermarket)

            Yep and would be hugely cheaper as well. The reason why it doesn’t happen is because the ‘market’ sees delivery as another way to increase profit rather being rational and seeing free-delivery as a way to reduce the resources used by society as a whole.

  19. swordfish 20

    Mr Murray Rawshark (nee Olsen)

    Murray, I’ve just seen your comment from yesterday’s Open Mike: “I always remember hearing whispers that Social Credit were some sort of fascists, but given what I remember of their policies, I really have no idea why. Didn’t they later join up with Values and the Alliance ?.”

    Not so much fascist as allegedly anti-semitic.

    It’s been argued that the economic and political theories put forward by Major C H Douglas, the British founder of the (international) Social Credit movement, in the 20s and 30s (immediately before, during and after the Great Depression) were “wholly dependent on an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.” The notion (in the context of Douglas’s vigorous criticism of the Banking Sector) that Jews were behind a “global conspiracy to control finance”.

    Others have taken issue with this interpretation, albeit still accepting that Douglas propounded a kind of mild, non-racial/non-genetic anti-Semitism based around criticism of what he felt was an inherent Jewish Philosophical attraction to “Abstract” thought (allegedly due to the influence of the Old Testament) and therefore (in his view)) to communist ideals and an emphasis on the community over the individual. Which he apparently took to be a bad thing.

    The argument from scholars like Prof Paul Spoonley is that, although most New Zealand Socred supporters in the 50s and 60s may not have held these anti-Semitic conspiracy beliefs, a core group of activists and officials in the Party did. By no means all, not even necessarily most, but certainly a core group. It’s been a few years since I read these articles/book chapters, but I’m pretty sure they included numerous quotes from the in-house Socred newsletter of the 50s/60s, Plain Talk, that were of a International Conspiracy of Jewish Bankers nature. Pretty clearly anti-Semitic in tone (although, once again, not, it has to be said, of the overtly violent Nazi-like race-based variety).

    But then, Bruce Beetham – the young liberal Moderniser of the movement – wins the leadership in 1972 and begins to purge/quash (among other things) the anti-Semitic tendencies (no doubt aided by conservative former leader John O’Brien forming the New Democrat Party, taking with him some of the more overtly anti-Semitic activists).

    Thereafter, the anti-Jewish element has been seen as either minor or non-existent. Certainly negligible among the Party’s voter-base, which of course massively expanded into a ‘Protest Vote’ of more than 20% in 1981 (support reaching 30% and pushing Labour into second place in one 1980 poll).

    So by the 80s, we’re really just talking about a Centrist ‘Protest Party’, with an increasingly vague commitment to Douglas’s economic theories. In the mid-80s there’s a bitter leadership contest, Morrison deposes Beetham, the Party changes its name to The Democrats, the two remaining Socred MPs lose their seats at the 87 Election. The Party subsequently joins, as you say, with the New Labour Party, the Greens, the Liberals and Mana Motuhake in The Alliance and get one or two socred-democrats elected to Parliament on the Alliance List as a result. (You may remember Grant Gillon and his Tory Sheep-shagging joke, for instance. Went down in the Parliamentary Chamber like a cup of cold sick, Helen Clark visibly grimacing).

    They then follow Anderton into The Progressive Party after the Alliance rips itself apart and the whole enterprise ends in tears.

    • greywarshark 20.1

      Very interesting thanks swordfish.

    • kenny 20.2

      Two things – Major Douglas was Canadian, not British and The Democrats for Social Credit are still alive but not kicking very hard – I would have thought the present world financial upheaval was ripe for a more robust attack from them.

      • swordfish 20.2.1

        “Major Douglas was Canadian”

        Au Contraire, mon fraire. That’s a common mistake. He was actually born in Manchester, England and educated at Stockport Grammar. (Which naturally leads to the question: Was he a Stockport County supporter? Possibly, possibly not). Socred was certainly particularly strong in Canada – especially in Alberta and British Columbia – but that doesn’t mean he was a Cannuck himself.

        “The Democrats for Social Credit are still alive but not kicking very hard.”

        Too true. 0.07% of vote. I see they’re now characterising themselves as a left-wing nationalist party.

    • Zolan 20.3

      For reference: Democrats for Social Credit website.

      I get the impression they’re culturally more of a think tank, energised by ideas rather than the messy process of getting power. “Democrats” by name, but possibly wishing they could skip that step.

      It’s difficult to know what to do with narrow interest parties. The modular approach of a jigsaw alliance is politically unsatisfying, and their best bet for coalition would be like the ACT of the Left.
      It seems to me that they would be more effective as an organisation promoting its ideas to the public and trying to persuade more comprehensive Parties to adopt them.

      • swordfish 20.3.1

        “It seems to me that they would be more effective as an organisation promoting its ideas to the public and trying to persuade more comprehensive Parties to adopt them.”

        That’s pretty much what they did in the 20s and 30s. First influencing The Country Party (in NZ Parl 1928-38) and then influencing sections of the Labour Party. John A Lee and some of the Labour MPs who supported his formation of The Democratic and Soldier Labour Party accepted certain aspects of the Douglas Credit doctrine, while discarding others, and wanted the very orthodox Walter Nash to take a more radical approach to the economy.

        Labour had essentially employed a certain amount of Social Credit-sounding rhetoric (not, I hasten to add, of the anti-Semitic variety) to maximise its vote in rural and semi-rural seats at the 1935 Election. But, overall, Douglas Credit true-believers were highly disappointed that the Savage and Fraser Governments had failed to follow through. In turn, leading to the formation of The Social Credit Political League as an independent Party in the 50s.

        In the UK and Australia – unlike NZ and Canada – Social Credit always remained a mere lobby-group, seeking to influence the main parties as you’ve proposed.

      • Brigid 20.3.2

        It seems to me, having perused the Democrats website, that they’re hardly a ‘narrow interest’ party.

    • Brigid 20.4

      The reason Morrison became leader was because due to electorate boundary changes Betham didn’t win Rangitiki again.
      They had two members gain seats in 1996: Grant Gillon and John Wright.
      It’s also not correct that the Democrats followed Anderton into the Progressive Party. Gillon put the motion that the party stay with the Progressives but they voted 58% to 42% not to. Wright and Gillon may have joined Anderton but not as a Democrat members.

      • swordfish 20.4.1

        The reason Morrison became leader was ….. due to electorate boundary changes Beetham didn’t win Rangitikei again.”

        Well, Beetham had certainly lost his seat, but the leadership change (2 years later) was acrimonious. Beetham was extremely bitter about being forced out and went off and formed a new Socred splinter party.

        It’s also not correct that the Democrats followed Anderton into the Progressive Party

        I think your conflating two different events.

        (1) The Alliance splits in 2002 and the Democrats follow Anderton into his new Progressive Party (hence the name Progressive Coalition). The two Democrats, Gillon and Wright are placed third and fourth on the new Party’s List but fail to make it into Parliament (The Progressive’s Party-Vote only gets them 2 MPs – Anderton and fellow former NLP/Alliance politician, Matt Robson).

        (2) Then, shortly after the 2002 Election, the Democrats, disappointed by the failure to get their guys back into Parliament, vote to split from the Progressives (hence the latter subsequently dropping the Coalition bit from their name) and re-establish themselves as an independent party. Gillon and Wright oppose the split and decide to stick with the Progressives.

        But that’s probably enough Social Credit for now. Not necessarily the most exciting topic in the world. Mainly just wanted to answer Murray’s query.

    • Murray Rawshark 20.5

      Thanks Swordie
      I would have heard the rumours before 1972. Beetham was really the first one I took any notice of, and I couldn’t remember any of it from him. I mainly remember the Skoda stuff.

  20. North 21

    Look at this crap – Rodney Love Perks trying to Hide the Key up the Planet.


    Kitteridge apologised because Key told her to. He’s not good under pressure is he ?

    • Anne 21.1

      Rodney Hide has lost his political marbles. I did a quick scan and read something about Goff should go to jail for what he did or some such thing, and turned the page in disgust.

      Btw, Rodney Hide was at the forefront of ACT in the mid-1990s when two ACT initiated break-ins occurred… one at the former Auckland headquarters of the Alliance Party and the other at Judith Tizard’s Auckland Central electorate office. Rodney Hide was the Auckland Central ACT candidate in 1996.

  21. Morrissey 22

    Unfunny right wing louts can do what they like, quite obviously
    From Wellington to Westminster, they’re out of control

    Unless you’re a plank of wood and/or an ACT supporter, you will have been staggered by John Key’s outrageous, brazen behaviour over the last week. You may or may not like to know that his ideological stablemates in the U.K. have also been busy making a mockery of parliamentary procedure. This woman’s loutishness reminds me very much of our own Crusher Collins….


  22. Hello, a legal’ish sort of question for those who may know the answer.

    How do I stop my ex employer from using my name on his website? He was never given permission to use it by me, in fact on a previous occasion when still employed, I told him I didn’t want my name used to promote/advertise his business at all.
    He was sent a remove it email by my lawyer on the 13/6/14, which has, so far, been ignored.

    Do I have the right to demand it’s removal? Can I be compensated for it’s use without permission? If so, how?


  23. Philip Ferguson 24

    Mainstream new media coverage suggests to us that the Middle East is full of Islamic religious fanatics. The great diversity in politics and religion in the area is erased. Moreover, the way in which the Western powers, especially the United States, has encouraged and supported the growth of conservative religious movements to undermine progressive nationalist movements is never covered. Yet the sponsorship of reactionary forms of Islam by the United States and its chief allies in the region, most notably Saudi Arabia, is crucial for understanding the current strength of these movements and the expansion of conflict.

    In addition, where Muslim is fighting Muslim, we are not given any background analysis of why this might be the case and what the differences are between the various strands of Islam. Now and then the term ‘Salafist’ might pop up in a news item or an interview and people are given the impression that this might be important in some way, but we are not informed how or why. At best, we might glean that it has some connection with Wahhabism, the fundamentalist doctrine which the Saudi Arabian state has been connected to since that state was established in the 1920s.

    Full at: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/explaining-wahhabism-and-salafism/

    Also very interesting kind of open letter from Otago conflict studies professor to the NZ media about journalistic standards and coverage of terrorism: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/otago-professor-challenges-mainstream-media-on-terrorism-threat-minimal-standards-of-journalism/


  24. Michael 25

    About US politics:

    I really hope Elizabeth Warren, from the left of the Democratic Party, runs for the primary for 2016. She’s a true progressive social democract.

    I mean, look at this speech she gave to unions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJS6TV6F3As They were on their feet.

    • Clemgeopin 25.1

      Thanks. This clip below is also very impressive and makes so much sense. However, I think it will be very difficult for her to get elected as president in the citadel of greedy capitalists, just as it would be for, say, the excellent Laila Harre to be the Prime minister of NZ where most people do not SEEM to care too much about progressive economic ideas or even political news for that matter! I am saying that, going by our own recent election results here as well as the very recent U.S House of Representatives elections held on November 4, where the RW Republicans won most of the seats!

      Watch this 6 minute clip : Real Time with Bill Maher- Interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren (10/3/14).
      I really wish people would elect her. Would be a miracle for USA!


      • Michael 25.1.1

        Very true. And her left-wing style is very popular in the Northeast US (i.e. in Massachusetts where she is from, about 90% of people vote Democrat.) But not so much in places like the South.

        I really like her. I wish she would actually run in 2016. Her and Bernie Sanders, the only US politician to call himself a democratic socialist.

  25. greywarshark 26

    I still can’t get personal archives which stopped on evening of 25/11/2014. Found someone else the same – last entry was 11.30pm.

  26. Ed 27

    Two quick queries:

    1. It is clear that there were some texts from Slater to Key before the selected text that was made public, and there may well have been some following – it does appear that the least damaging may well have been carefully selected for the screen shot. Is there any way of forcing Slater to reveal the rest of the text messages?

    2. What has happened regarding the raid and seizure of Hagar’s computers – did he need the money that was raised?

    • veutoviper 27.1

      Ed, re Hager and the raid etc on his house, According to a recent tweet by Felix Geiringer, who is acting for Hager as solicitor/barrister, the case goes to court in Feb/March 2015. So presumably the money raised will be used for those legal proceedings. Sorry, cannot provide links etc as my computer access and time is currently limited.

      Re your comments on the Slater/Key texts, my instincts agree with your assessment that the screenshot was not the full exchange, but presumably, we will not know the rest unless Slater releases it or it is found through other means.

      PS edit – access is limited due to old computer playing up! And I currently have very little time to search links etc. nothing more sinister!

    • B. Adam 27.2

      When Slater texted Key saying ‘they’ (Labour) was trying to kill him or make him do suicide himself, it is strange that Key, did not immediately inform the police or mental health people about that! That is highly irresponsible negligence, is that not?

      • chris73 27.2.1

        Slater wasn’t saying Labour were, he was saying those involved with the hacking were and what he was referring was not a hit job but trying to drive him to “do a Dawson” based on his history of depression

        • lprent

          Perhaps he should realize that as in most things in his life, that Cameron’s blogging is in effect a miserable failure. It is just a matter of time before it sinks under the methods he used to grow it.

          And I severely doubt that “Labour” was involved in the hacking or the subsequent book. That massive amount of surprise when it caught them with a half-formed and quite useless election campaign should have made that quite apparent to everyone.

          Cameron is simply bullshitting again. I expect to see one of his pathetic paranoid fantasies to come out linking everyone to everyone else and “poor ole victim” Slater the subject of a vast conspiracy. Of course this is in NZ where there are seldom more than 3 or 4 degrees of separation between anyone.

          The reality is that there are fuckall who like the arsehole and his methods. Even on the right.

          • chris73

            Perhaps he should realize that as in most things in his life, that Cameron’s blogging is in effect a miserable failure. It is just a matter of time before it sinks under the methods he used to grow it.

            – Yeah I’m going to go with jealousy on this one, if you had even close to the numbers whaleoil puts every month you’d be singing a different tune

            • lprent

              Huh? Clicbait is easy. If he hasn’t just hired a company to push his traffic up (as I suspect), then clicbait is where he gets his numbers from.

              For some reason Regan (as the advertiser) wasn’t enthusiastic about having anyone competent look at Whaleoil’s systems. If Cameron isn’t rorting the advertisers then he is giving a really good imitation of someone doing so.

            • Colonial Rawshark

              – Yeah I’m going to go with jealousy on this one,

              Righties always reveal so much about the way they themselves look upon the world.

        • felix

          Bullshit chris.

          They still have standard bloggers on staff
          And Mccarten was involved in hack

          Hopefully it will all come out in time

          I wish they would hurry up…they played the real dirty politics…even tried to kill me…I have evidence of.

          • chris73

            Being thats his words, I’ll take his meaning of what he was referring to over what some yahoos on a blog say especially as hes been consistent in his postings over this matter on his own website

        • B. Adam

          But still highly irresponsible negligence from Key, PM for Slater’s well being, is that not?

          • chris73

            Sure and theres plenty of ammunition to use so I figure that people on here may as well know what really happened rather then using false information

  27. With corruption in Fifa common place according to reports, there’s something rotten indeed going on if this goal by Stephanie Roche doesn’t win goal of the year.


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