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Open Mike 31/07/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 31st, 2018 - 119 comments
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119 comments on “Open Mike 31/07/2018”

  1. esoteric pineapples 1

    Blueprint for National’s version of legalising medical marijuana? If you can’t fight it, then just take over it, and make people growing their own at a fraction of a price illegal. In the US, this has the bonus of keeping the private prisons full. It’s a win-win for corporates

  2. esoteric pineapples 2

    Time to panic? Among the climate change effects we have to look forward to are massive “methane burps” (50 gigaton release of methane all at once) in the Bering sea that would within minutes speed up the process to the point that the human race will be instantly be in survival mode. “That would literally alter life on the planet in a matter of minutes.”

    • greywarshark 2.1

      That methane burp wouldn’t have an immediate deadly effect on large numbers of people in NZ and Australia. First they are totally insensitive to any changes, and second it takes at least a decade and possibly two for world information to penetrate their consciousness and reach the insulated cool brains, in a state of hypothermia, of the power-complacent and friends.

    • Guy MacPherson tends to be persona non grata round here, but maybe, just maybe, he will be proved right.

      Accelerated climate change will end up killing us all, and sooner rather then later!

  3. John up North 3

    Wow! first time in quite a while we don’t have any reckons or “huge” announcements for aspirational kinda like stuff which might be policy one day if Nats can actually get around to writing the “actual” policy thing out in ink or something, to distribute to fans and the general public……………. phew!
    In a nutshell Nats aren’t front page today, WTF.
    Simeon quick, get out the batphone and make an announcement…………. anything.

  4. ianmac 4

    We are free to believe what we like but to use this school as leading the National Party Conference makes me a bit uneasy. Conservative Simon?

    Fara Hancock at Newsroom wrote this:

    The student from Mt Hobson Middle School said Darwinism was taught as an unproven theory and students were shown a video purporting to show science had found proof of God’s existence.

    His impression was the school backed the concept of creationism “100 percent”.

    The science teacher was Rachel O’Connor, sister of National Party leader Simon Bridges and wife of National MP Simon O’Connor.


    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1

      “… students were shown a video purporting to show science had found proof of God’s existence.”

      One of youtube’s better offerings, and some of the comments beneath are just plain sarcastic. Rude buggers. They’re all going to hell.

      • SpaceMonkey 4.1.1

        A fundamentalist Christian friend of mine once commented to me – when reflecting on the morals and behaviours of some who would describe themsleves as Christian – that scientists such as quantum physicists had a better chance of finding God.

    • Cinny 4.2

      Holy smoke Batman !!! What the?

      Yesterday after discovering that some of simons immediate family were teachers; I thought, did they all get around the dinner table and slam labours suggestion for smaller class sizes? I mean surely his family must have given their opinion to him before on education, surely.

      After reading your post Ian, I’m like hmmmmm… what do they teach?

      Working from home today so will listen to the audio of the clip Rosemary kindly posted.

      I wonder which brand of god they are focusing on….. it’s all in the words, they have the power, just like spells, that’s why it’s called spelling 🙂

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.1

        Don’t panic Cinny. The late Stephen Hawking has endorsed this concept so it must be Science.

        Ipso facto, okay to teach in Science class.

        “…. did they all get around the dinner table…”

        Like this….?

        Which I imagine is not far far from reality.

    • millsy 4.3

      Poor kids don’t need to learn about Darwin. All they need to learn is a trade, how to budget, vote National and support the All Blacks. And do the occasional haka.

    • indiana 4.4

      I stopped reading the article after this point:
      “The mother of the student is a trained secondary teacher. She said she was shocked the video had been shown in a science class.”

      I mean seriously, if qualified teachers were so opposed to Charter Schools, why send heir own kids there?

      • McFlock 4.4.1

        She sent her kid to a private school, not a charter school. But the charter schools run by the same organisation as the private school were billed as teaching the same curriculum.

        Sorted? You can keep reading now that your distraction has been addressed?

    • totalaethiest 4.5

      When are our Schools & other public institutions also going to stop pushing maori creation myths as well?

    • veutoviper 4.6

      Conservative Simon?

      Both of them, but apparently from different backgrounds. IIRC Simon Bridges’ father (and father of Rachel, Simon O’Connor’s wife) is a Baptist minister.

      OTOH Simon O’Connor attended a Catholic seminary for some years and completed his studies to become a priest but was never ordained.

      He married Rachel in late 2016. She is ten years older than both Simons, and was a divorcee with children when she married O’Connor. John and Bronagh Key attended their wedding about a week after Key stepped down as PM.

      O’Connor made a bit of a name for himself two weeks before last year’s Sept 2017 general election when he posted a claim on Facebook that “It’s strange that Jacinda is so concerned about youth suicide but is happy to encourage the suicide of the elderly, disabled, and sick. Perhaps she just values one group more than the others? Just saying.”


      Ardern’s response is in the above link. Bill English then stepped in and gave O’Connor the ‘slap over the wrist with a wet bus ticket’ treatment with a text telling him that it was wrong to link suicide and euthanasia.


      So it appears that there is some pretty strong conservatism from both ends of the religious spectrum within some members at least of the Bridges’ whanau. (There may be some very opposite views as well that we don’t about.)

    • mary_a 4.7

      ianmac (4) … and Rachel O’Connor’s husband Simon O’Connor trained as a Catholic priest!

      Why is O’Connor allowed to teach science, if her perspective on life and how it came to be, is so biased?

  5. Carolyn_Nth 5

    Whaleoil vs Newsroom, as reported on Newsroom by Tim Murphy.

    Oh, how interesting. So Slater has contacted Newsroom claiming they did a hit job on Ray Avery.

    The blogger, Cameron Slater, has evidently been fed information on Avery’s email dealings with Newsroom over the past month – not from us – and the blogger promises “articles” which will show Newsroom has “decided to listen to claims of various low-rent ratbags that cast aspersions on a New Zealander of the Year and a person with an exemplary record of public service”.

    The two-page email names a variety of people Slater thinks talked to Newsroom, including some unknown to us, and proceeds to make claims about their personal lives and accuse them of an assortment of behaviours which, even if true, would have had no bearing on the reports on Avery.

    Slater seems excited to have been given a photograph of Avery with the former Prime Minister Helen Clark, a critic of Avery’s proposed fundraising concert at Eden Park which has since been cancelled. He claims she told a radio host she had never met Avery but his smoking gun photo is “photographic evidence that she has indeed met the man”.

  6. ianmac 6

    Sam Schdeva @ Newsroom on Peter’s time as PM:
    “It’s no surprise then that Peters’ last press conference in charge ended on a similarly random note, albeit after provocation from a reporter who asked whether whisky should be sipped or swilled – a reference to National Party president Peter Goodfellow saying his party had “dodged a whisky-swilling, cigarette-smoking, double-breasted and irrational bullet”.

    “Have you asked him whether he’s going to repeat his comments again, because I wish he had the courage to do that and let’s see whether he does or not, but what is not going to happen here is someone like him thinks he’s going to have a free hit at Winston Peters.”

    Goodfellow has something to hide???

    • Cinny 6.1

      Smells fishy, like a sanfords trawler…

    • Anne 6.2

      Video footage of the exchange:


      There’s been rumblings in the past about some of Goodfellow’s activities – including from Slater – but no-one has come out into the open with them. However there was something not very savoury occuring when he and his former wife were in the throes of a bitter separation. Goodfellow’s legal team managed to secure a permanent ban on any public revelations concerning the case. The high court judge who handed out the ban was a close family friend.

      • Pete 6.2.1

        Those weren’t ‘rumblings’ about Goodfellow in the past from Slater – they were pretty much full frontal.

  7. SaveNZ 7

    Is Labour going to clean up immigration loopholes, exploitation, and trafficking? aka workers promised x amount of money to work in NZ and then find they only make $10 a week or are actually in debt after expenses is trafficking. Nobody should be in this country as exploitable workers by third party recruiters like Allied Work Force and then be left without work or effectively working for $10 p/w after expenses.

    Apparently some of their construction workers have not worked for up to 3 months but are taking up housing in the Auckland and should not be holding work visas at all unless there is 40+ hours work guaranteed straight away and immigration seems to be turning a blind eye to this type of exploitation by 3rd parties.

    Imagine the profit margins if AWF can afford to pay people 30 hours to just sit around.

    Also shows how the so called ‘skills shortages’ in construction are not as they seem. If there was such demand why are these workers sitting on the bench and doing nothing or just have 30 hours work in Auckland?

    The demand for construction workers from overseas is a scam to drive wages and conditions by exploiting people new to this country and don’t know the laws or making them pay for the privilege of working here and add merging upon margin to labour so the end workers ends up on next to nothing and the cost of building skyrockets.

    Then when the work is not up to scratch as construction has become about profiteering not quality jobs for decent wages, it is the new owners and council ratepayers that pick up the repair bills.


    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      Imagine the profit margins if AWF can afford to pay people 30 hours to just sit around.

      They only get paid when they work. They don’t get paid for sitting around but they need to be sitting around in case some work becomes available for them.

      It’s a highly inefficient business that wastes far more time than it saves and leaves the taxpayers to pick up the costs in AS, UE and other indirect subsidies.

      • David Mac 7.1.1

        Yeah, it’s an often arising problem and we’ve had crappy solutions forever. Old depression era movies portraying watersiders hoping to get picked for a day’s work.

        If I’ve won the contract to update the fireproofing in a 15 story building I need 20 men for 2 days to get the old ceilings out. Then I don’t need them again.

        I wonder if we’d be better off nurturing groups of 4 or 5 of these ‘on call guys’ into their own small businesses. Then there is room for these people who are currently essentially ‘on call muscle’ to expand on their skills. Painting a house in 2 days pays much better than pulling the cladding off 10 leaky flats for 2 days.

        Put this AWL corporate model out to pasture, cut them out of the deal. Nicely, current AWL customers will look for the best job for the lowest price and if that means ringing several of the diary holding wives of the guys in 4-5 man small businesses rather than the AWL sales rep, hey, market forces.

    • OnceWasTim 7.2

      They’re making inroads, but SLOWLY! And part of the problem with all of this is of ‘our’ (INZ/MoBIE’s) own making. And of course, (as even dear wee Matty once said), some in the state apparatus – i.e. our corporaised public service, are more interested in preserving the status quo and their future ambitions than they are acting as ethical and independent servers of the public.
      The actual record of failures is there for all to see, just as it is in places like MPI or Housing Corp and elsewhere. The sad thing is that the Joe Average public servant has to bear the brunt of managerial muppetry.

      Still, there’s more than one way to skin a cat (“going forward”, “on the back of” a problem that’s clearly continuing – as a matter of fact, ekshully, to coin a phrase, so-to-speak). The coalition are slowly waking up – gradually learning that the bullshit artist, the supposedly ‘good bloke’, learned the art of bullshitting and spin, and lying straight-faced a long time ago
      Radical restructures with mass ‘position disestablishments’ are out, and probably not really that necessary
      Nothing to stop transferring functions elsewhere, bit by bit, peeling layers of the onion off, and getting the road blocking gatekeepers to have to re-apply.

      • OnceWasTim 7.2.1

        Actually, I think what amuses me most (funny if it wasn’t so sad), is the latest from the pompous Michael Woodhouse- sounding off like a more ‘cultured’ version of Peter Dutton

  8. SaveNZ 8

    Migrant worker bans: 70 firms fall foul of new rules – averaging 1 every 2.6 days and – sounds like the tip of the iceberg!

    Those in breach are those not having written employment contracts, underpaying workers or breaching the Holidays Act.

    Sunny Sehgal, who represents exploited migrant workers, said while the Inspectorate’s new powers were welcome it needed more inspectors to catch up.

    “There are thousands out there who are still looking for justice, but because this department is understaffed they are not getting any justice.”


  9. greywarshark 9

    Trump administration has deported about 400 children apparently on their own, not with their parents, and the States has no knowledge of where they are and how they are. Some could be as young as five years. There is some sort of deadline to improve things, but unlikely to meet obligations. Hideous humans, can’t we ever rise to our potential for good?
    Report from USA Radionz about 9.55 am

  10. SaveNZ 10

    Is this the safety standards of public buses we should have in NZ? The bus involved in the accident and death of a child was imported from Japan in 2004 and failed its Certificate of Fitness nine times over the 14 years.

    Also apparently some of the buses used are in such disrepair the seats are broken and the handles falling off.


    “Sophie Leather was a passenger on a different bus travelling between National Park and Whakapapa on Saturday.

    She purchased tickets from the kiosk at National Park Village, which only sells tickets for RAL’s shuttle service.

    She was so concerned about the state of it, she took photos.

    “The chair in front of me was fully broken, not held up by wires and I was trying to hold that up with my feet.

    “A lady went to go brace herself and her child and just going around a small corner the entire handle came off the chair and so we were pretty horrified at that to be honest and all started talking about how dangerous it was.”

    The visible safety issues made her question whether other buses operating in the same area were in a similar condition.”

    • greywarshark 10.1

      Buses not uo to standard, road steep not up to standard. A spokesperson might have said – We’re making good money, don’t stress, she’ll be right, nothing bad has ever happened yet etc The she’ll be right mentality, don’t fuss, stop criticising, that’s the NZ way. Not obvious law breaking, but sneaky slackness abiout standards, everybody does it.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      She was so concerned about the state of it, she took photos.

      “The chair in front of me was fully broken, not held up by wires and I was trying to hold that up with my feet.

      “A lady went to go brace herself and her child and just going around a small corner the entire handle came off the chair and so we were pretty horrified at that to be honest and all started talking about how dangerous it was.”

      The visible safety issues made her question whether other buses operating in the same area were in a similar condition.”

      How is this shit on our roads and endangering the people on the bus and the other people on the roads?

      • Ed 10.2.1

        Because New Zealand governments have worshipped at the altar of free market neoliberal capitalism for the past 34 years.

      • David Mac 10.2.2

        Coach companies that aren’t having their hand held by direct subsidies struggle to turn a profit. The inevitable happens, they choose between buying new tyres or paying the ACC levy, corners get cut.

        I think they should be trading the buses in for a fleet of electric bicycles that can pull a child pod. We need to start exploiting unique points of difference on the international tourism stage.

        Families going up our mountains on electric bikes = the best advertising of all: Word of Mouth. Millions of amazing snapshots of our vistas posted to Facebook and Twitter accounts all over the world.

        Our most attractive unique attraction is of course Maori. I think they should own tourism in our country, our primary greeters and hosts. Flying Dreamliners, guiding pony treks through battle sites, running resorts that market golfing weekends in Shanghai. The Chinese aren’t just buying cars at 1 a minute, check out golf club set sales. It’s cheaper to fly to NZ for a week than play 3 x 18 hole rounds in a Chinese city.

        Lets get savvy with selling NZ to the world, try harder at living up to the hype, head for Pure on as many tangents as we can. It’s getting scarcer. We can be a world oasis if we wish.

        So yeah, scrap the dinosaur buses. They bite and nobody’s making decent coin out of them.

        • David Mac

          International Tourist dollars are tasty. They empty fat wallets, money that wasn’t circulating here before their visit, pay GST for services they mostly carry insurance cover for and/or don’t require. Drive on a few of our roads, flush a few toilets then head off home. Nice.

          • David Mac

            I wonder how close to recharged again an electric bike would be after coming back down a mountain? Would just need a top-up and recharging downhill = brakes not getting hot and regulated descent speed. It would be all recharged again before the next bike mountaineer had signed the ‘If I’m stupid it’s entirely my problem.’ form.

            • In Vino

              Dave – have you forgotten the snow? Car-owners were putting on chains to avoid going by bus today. I know most bikes have bicycle chains, but I have never heard of snow chains for bike tyres. Just asking, since you seem so keen.

              • David Mac

                Hi Vino, these tyres seem to handle snow ok but they’d be dicey on ice. There are electric bike tyres available with metal studs in them like the Scandinavians use on cars for their winters, they bite into the ice. I can’t see the point in a tourist going up a mountain by any means during a snowfall. The view is the same at the bottom as the top.

        • Draco T Bastard

          We need to start exploiting unique points of difference on the international tourism stage.

          Our buses falling apart isn’t a unique point of difference?


          Lets get savvy with selling NZ to the world, try harder at living up to the hype, head for Pure on as many tangents as we can. It’s getting scarcer.

          And one the reasons that purity is getting scarcer is the increasing number of tourists.

    • Ed 10.3

      New Zealand is a cowboy country at the far extremes of the neoliberal cult.

    • SaveNZ 10.4

      Was on a double decker bus in Auckland that was newish, but looked like it had been made by the toxic Gujarat’s ship-breaking yards of metal waste. Window was already leaking, it smelt of e waste, and had a live bird stuck in the seats. It was for children charters.

      NZ is going to the bottom for standards in many directions. Part of it is this idea you take the lowest tender with the lowers standards and cross your fingers it won’t kill anybody. Then all the other companies down grade standards to compete.

      Look at this situation , in spite of having dangerous electrical standards for vulnerable people they have not stopped his other corporations doing other work for housing corp after an initial stand down… worth the risk maybe?

      That is showing bad contractors that poor standards is ok and they will continue to be used after being prosecuted for allowing dangerous work!


      This truck driver just killed someone after pleading guilty to a number of charges relating to falsifying statements in a logbook, exceeding more than 13 hours in a work day and failing to have more than 10 hours continuous rest.

      He had two previous convictions for logbook offences and failing to take the required breaks.


      In the quest for lower and lower wages, more hours of people having to work, unqualified workers doing work being signed off by others and lower standards people are being killed…

      there needs to be a rethink back to quality and fairness in the workforce in this country and employers need to be made more accountable and not keep putting everything on the little guy or bad quality and making all these people “subcontractors” and “dependant or independent contractors’ so you have a plethora of offerings breaking the rules to get more money often just to survive.

      • cleangreen 10.4.1

        Yes SaveNZ

        Bullying threatening truck drivers are now threatening local residents in our rural areas in Gisborne now.

        See this action of truck drivers thretening locals over using a rural road not fit for logging trucks so the police now have to control the truck drivers so we are reaching a very low standard of driver quality in NZ sadly

        To make the issue more real I attended a greypower meeting several weeks ago and elder ladies were teling me that several of their members were also almost shunned of the highways way trucks forcing them to drive over 100kms and tailgeted them until they swerved off the road before being shunned off the road by the trucks.

        Some government agency needs to control these bad drivers of heavy trucks now.

        Even Ken Shirley of the “RTF” Road Transport Forum” needs to step into tjhos issues as he contriols all these ‘cowboy truck drivers’. https://www.rtfnz.co.nz/


        Staff on Gisborne road cordons after Tolaga Bay storm were physically threatened by log truck drivers

        Last updated 11:17, July 30 2018


        Aftermath of Tolaga Bay storm
        Staff manning cordons on roads following the Tolaga Bay storm were verbally abused and physically threatened by logging truck drivers.

    • bwaghorn 10.5

      I’ve recently got me and wag junior into skiing (been twice) I thought about using the buses but after a bit of thought decided clapped out heaps driven by your average Joe wasn’t something I was keen on for going up a mountain rd . The rd is in very good condition .

  11. Jenny 11

    I wonder if Time Garner is going to savage John Key for wanting to replace all New Zealand flags, with the same venom he attacked Lucy Lawless for saying she thought it would be all right if someone burnt one.


    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      When did John Key want to replace all New Zealand flags?

      • ianmac 11.1.1

        If Key had won his selfish little jaunt and won his flag change then all current NZ flags would be gotten rid of.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Last week? Last month? Last year? I’m just trying to get some context here

          • McFlock

            nah you’re pretending that if it was a while ago it doesn’t count as hypocrisy.

            If a flag is replaced and the old flag is burnt, would Garner be outraged? That’s a trick question: the answer depends on “replaced on whose initiative” and “burnt by whom”.

            • Puckish Rogue

              I’m not sure what Jenny was expecting Duncan do though, rehash what was done and dusted 2 and 3 years ago?

              Duncan has already made his feelings on the matter clear



              • McFlock

                Well, gosh, we’re almost there. Between Jenny’s link and yours, do you have enough information to answer her wondering?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Well maybe I missed something but I don’t see where John Key said he was going to burn, or destroy in general, the NZ flag so the two situations aren’t the same

                  • McFlock

                    Take your time. Try rereading Jenny’s comment.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Having a referendum to change a nations flag is a just a tad different to burning a flag don’t you think

                    • McFlock

                      They’re both saying that the flag does not represent the ideals the national myth projects upon it.

                      That what the flag does represent should be discarded alongside the flag.

                      One’s a bit more dramatic than the other, but they both have substantially the same message. People burning the US or NZ flag aren’t criticising the good things about either nation. The act of flag burning isn’t against the concept of freedom, or national independence, or humanitarian ideals.

                      Flag burning is almost invariably a protest against the reality of the activities of a state, a practical illustration that the concepts represented by that flag are no longer in existence and the flag is now meaningless. A referendum is just a bureaucratic assessment of the same thing.

    • Ed 11.2

      Garner is quite a hateful personality.
      He sold his soul sometime in the past 15 years.

      • Bewildered 11.2.1

        Can he be saved or born again Ed, possible penance been a diet of lentils and George Galloway videos with a sleep over at Ed place

  12. greywarshark 12

    Department of Conservation trying to ensure that NZs can get into parts of the country swamped by tourists and trying lower costs for us to assist. Not fair says some loudmouth NZt who lives in Australia (and not been allowed to have Australian citizenship?). Now he doesn’t care about NZ, thinks like an Australian, he is angry that his wife was charged more than him for going into a Nat Park and hut.

    Comment from Australians gained said they were angry and mightn’t come here, so there. Self-centred to the last molecule as usual!

    Incidentally it is not unknown for NZ in Oz to come back and try and gain advantage of their citizenship – for hospital costs for instance. It isn’t all being deported back here because of a whim of an Oz functionary.

    Seems that Easter Island – Rapa Nui is having similar problems.
    Rapa Nui Mayor Pedro Edmunds said foreigners are now taking over the island and damaging its culture, AFP reported.

    • McFlock 13.1

      anything overly earthshattering? Skimmed through it a bit.

      • Carolyn_Nth 13.1.1

        This picked up by Russel Brown:

        Wikileaks saying they “may have set up a historic shift. The uniting of UK + Sweden+US together with Iran, China and Russia against the UN Human rights system. Leading to its eventual demise. +Saudi, Turkey.”

      • joe90 13.1.2

        Other than openly preferring a tRump win and every Greenwald tweet mentioned appears to have been deleted, nah.

        edit The Intercept has published interesting bits and bobs

  13. greywarshark 14

    NZ Business latest
    31 july 2018

    i>Comvita, the NZX-listed manuka honey company, declined to comment on whether it is interested in making a bid for honey company Manuka Health New Zealand which has reportedly been put up for sale by its Australian owner Pacific Equity Partners.

    (Another prime NZ business owned by oiverseas interests. We can never get ahead when important businesses are not majorly owned by NZ interests and returning money as profit to the credit side of the nation’s bank ledger.) We need to put funds in to investment company. Once we had a few, they could be used as leverage to be able to afford more.

    People like Graeme Hunt have been able to become world famous in NZ – a joint entity run proplerly and scrutinised closely by fundholders could surely utilise the same methods as used by others.)

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      We can never get ahead when important businesses are not majorly owned by NZ interests and returning money as profit to the credit side of the nation’s bank ledger.

      Foreign ownership isn’t about us getting ahead but about foreign rich people getting richer.

      Ownership of businesses itself is about a few people being able to bludge off as many people as possible. It prevents anybody but the owners getting ahead.

      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        Even if all that were completely true Draco it still would be good to have small nz owned and staffed viable small businesses remaining so. I go for practicality that is good over theoretical and purist every time.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Oh, it would definitely be better for NZ if all businesses in NZ remained owned in NZ but it would still, inevitably, end up with just a few owning everything and the collapse of both society and the economy. It’d just take longer.

  14. Jenny 15

    Once over lightly

    How the West Coasters discuss climate change.

    Clue, they don’t.

    Or, if we don’t mention it, it is not a problem.

    Stuff.co.nz reporter Joanne Carroll publishes an extensive report on the threat to the coal mining industry on the West Coast. Carroll concentrates on how the Coal miners themselves perceive this threat.

    However, by going to great pains to avoid the elephant in the room, Carrol’s investigation which could have been a good nitty gritty report into the miners’ concerns, just isn’t.

    West Coast miners fear their way of life is under threat
    Joanne Carroll – July 28, 2018

    Without one single mention of the words ‘climate change’ or ‘global warming’ or ‘CO2 pollution’ in the whole report, this surely must rank as the most ignorant investigations into the threat to coal mining, and coal miners jobs on the West Coast ever written.

    Where does the blame for this shoddy, half baked, piece of journalism lie?

    Personally I think it must be the fault of the reporter who never raised the question.

    I mean how patronising of the miners, not asking them their opinion on climate change and the threat it posed to their industry?

    Did Carroll think that they could not give a rational adult response?

    Or was Carroll indulging in self censorship because she knew this line of investigation would not be welcome?

    Someone urgently needs to send a better reporter down there.

    Someone with empathy, but also someone with enough respect for people not to patronise West Coasters by not asking them the hard questions.

    John Campbell maybe?

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      West Coast miners fear their way of life is under threat

      Should have asked the coal miners about climate change and their industries threat to life on earth and thus why they expect we should give a fuck about their way of life.

      • Cinny 15.1.1

        Some coasters are ONLY worried about their standard of living, personal acquisitions taking priority over climate change. Mining pays well.

        It’s about money. It’s not so much about jobs, it’s more about top dollar lifestyle maintaining jobs.

        It’s puzzling and sad that some value personal wealth over the planet, which gives them life in the first place.

        • Bewildered

          Be careful what bow you draw here Cinny how far have you gone to redress climate change verses the average person in the third world re your carbon footprint or is it about what every one else should do from a virtue signalling perspective that makes you feel better

        • greywarshark

          Very difficult Cinny
          I have heard the coal mining wages and the money side must dominate even after the deaths in the Pike River mine.

          They are dying of black lung from coal in Appalachia. The machines used allow a huge increase in mining of 400% or something, but it also produces finer dust that is killing faster.

          I have just been listening on line to Vice – Why the asbestos industry…
          The Russian town of Asbest? that is built on mining asbestos and workers love it – they don’t talk about the badness of it.

          It is killing and sickening whole families there. We now know in the west it can be passed on to the families through washing the clothes used in mining, having them around. Whole families will show up as terminal cases from it in USA, Russia, also India and China that use the Russian asbestos, which is the main supply.

          Poor poor them and all us humans. I wonder what the Amish health rate is. hey have been able to limit the desire for modernisation. Perhaps they can conserve what is good in simple living and commdunity without being too patriarchal and oppressive.

    • millsy 15.2

      First of all, no one is talking about getting rid of mining on the west coast. New mines will still be allowed on iwi and private land. You just won’t be able to mine on DoC land. Also, existing mines will still be able to continue on DoC land until they are exhausted. The government is not trying to steal their livelihoods.

      Quite frankly, there are people all over the world who would give anything to live in a place like the West Coast with all it’s forests and mountains, and the coasters want overseas corporations to come in and dig it all up so they can have a few minimum wage jobs. They really don’t have an appreciation of how lucky they are.

      Talley’s has purchased Solid Energy’s West Coast operations. I would imagine they they will pursue a massive reduction in the wages and conditions of the mining staff similar to what has happened at AFFCO. The Coasters should be worrying about that more than an effort to preserve the Coast’s natural heritage from the ravagesnof capitalist developement.

  15. veutoviper 16

    Apropos of nothing in particular, it may be of interest to some people here or elsewhere such as organisers of other events this Friday night, that one of the online sellers of tickets to the Southern/Molyneux love feast in Auckland on Friday night have now indicated that the venue is in “Auckland 1010”.

    Being a non-Aucklander, I had to look at a map of the NZ postal zone 1010 – https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/Auckland+1010/@-36.8435932,174.7537248,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x6d72caf8a2cd8a15:0x693dad2b3037da65!8m2!3d-36.8502824!4d174.7657015

    I am not really any the wiser, but Aucklanders may be. The map would seem to rule out some possible venues – but still cover a lot of others.

    I might as well provide a link to the ticket seller’s webpage as well – https://www.tickettailor.com/events/axiomaticevents/184382/#

    The Axiomatic website (the main organiser/seller) does not mention Auckland 1010.

    • Carolyn_Nth 16.1

      Thanks. that may explain why the “Love Aotearoa, Hate Racism” protest organisers think it will be possible to walk to the Canadian pair’s event from Aotea Square.

      I wondered what would happen if the venue turned out to be many Kms from Aotea Square, as the rally organisers are planning to go to the venue from Aotea Square.

    • veutoviper 16.2

      Re the above, the following report back from someone who attended the Sydney love feast last Saturday is now up on the Herald site.

      I originally read it on an Australian site and found it enlightening and fairly neutral (not over the top for or against) and put some things into perspective for me. As it says, when boiled down, who is this 23 year old?


      A taste.

      It takes years of study to fully understand Islam, political philosophy, feminism and immigration. Yet somehow, a 23-year old college dropout seems to have figured them all out?

      Lauren is entitled to her opinions, but to pretend she’s some kind of intellectual authority is ridiculous. She might not claim to be an expert, but she is certainly treated like one. I hope her audience doesn’t blindly accept everything she says.

      Her critiques of multiculturalism were interesting and not completely outrageous. But for Lauren to be treated like an expert by more than her own fans, she first must understand the arts of expertise: nuance, balance and compromise.

      Lauren spares no time for discussing the ugly side of Western civilisation, or the beautiful side of multiculturalism. Everything is either completely bad, or completely good.

      The followers of this online right-wing movement have an astounding level of certainty in their ideology. Certainty is comforting for people who desperately want to understand the world.

      Like her radical left-wing enemies, Lauren understands half the story of whatever she talks about (Islam, feminism, multiculturalism), and thinks it’s the whole story.

      Nevertheless, Lauren represents a large number of Australians who feel they have no voice. There was a genuine feeling of persecution emanating from her audience. …”

      It goes on to include an interesting comparison of Southern’s views vs those of Richard Spencer – and contends that they are not the same. (Damn it. It is hard to cut without losing the context, so here is most of it.)

      She did manage to convince me about one thing: the Australian media is wrong to describe Lauren as “alt-right” — a mistake I myself have made.

      Lauren has some very controversial opinions and she has engaged in some very provocative antics. But she simply doesn’t meet the criteria of alt-right. Associating Lauren with the alt-right makes a good headline, but it’s just not true.

      The alt-right is a white nationalist movement with links to Neo-Nazism. The term “alt-right” was coined by a man named Richard Spencer, who is considered the movement’s leader.

      Spencer supports the creation of a country exclusively for white people. He’s opposed to interracial relationships. And he supports abortion rights, partly because of their capacity to reduce the African population.

      To lump Lauren in with Spencer is lazy and uncharitable. Whereas Spencer believes different races can’t coexist, Lauren believes different cultures can’t coexist. Spencer takes pride in the white race; Lauren takes pride in Western culture.

      You might disagree with both of them. It doesn’t change the fact that they’re different and that one is clearly worse than the other. Race-based pride is one of history’s ugliest forces.

      If you care about defeating the alt-right, don’t use the label as a cudgel to describe every right-winger on the internet. We should reserve the label for whom it actually applies. …”

      • Carolyn_Nth 16.2.1

        As with his report oN Southern, the author of that op ed, Luke Kinsella, presents as providing an “objective” report on Jordan Peterson, who also questions terms like “white privilege”, and has also been associated with the alt-right – pro individualism, anti-feminism, ant-LGBT, and someone whose views get an alt-right following.

        Peterson, like Southern, is also not directly or explicitly alt-right, but appeals to young men who lean alt-right. So both are very good poster people for the alt-right.

        Like his report on Southern, Kinsella’s report on his reading of Peterson, is pretty antiseptic. It ignores the in depth critiques that have been provided of Peterson’s work and utterings.

        For Kinsella, Jordon Peterson is to be highly commended for the way it focuses young men like himself, on the positive value of a certain kind of individualistic “self help”.

        Kinsella’s op ed on Southern is very curious in that, while it mentions Molyneux also talked at the Sydney event, he does not report on anything Molyneux said. And that is the context in whuch Southern is doing her speaking tour. She is the PR poster, and more acceptable face of the event.

        Molyneux says overtly racist, and-Aborigine, anti-black things. In that context, and for their audience and alt-right followers, Southern’s focus on “Western culture” and “multiculturalism” becomes a dog whistle for “white supremacy” and racist attacks on “non-western cultures”.

        I don’t know what Southern’s underlying motives and views are, but she is contributing to a racist and toxicly masculinist movement.

        • veutoviper

          Thanks Carolyn. I did not really notice the writer’s name and also read the article in the middle of the night – but did notice that he never mentions Molyneux.

          You have made some good points re Kinsella and his background etc which I was not aware of. And I will follow up on looking at his other writings eg on Jordan Peterson.

          As you point out Southern is the pretty face etc vs Molyneux and has to be seen in that light. I certainly agree that she is contributing to a racist and toxic masculinist movement.

          Nevertheless, I also believe that the points made about her age, lack of experience and expertise etc are valid points on which to access her credibility – or rather lack of it.

          • Carolyn_Nth

            Yes, veuto. The point about Southern’s lack of expertise is important. Otherwise, the article doesn’t say anything more about what Southern says than in the tweeted report of the Canadians’ Melbourne event.

            And the tweeted report also showed how toxic Molyneux’s views are.

        • McFlock

          I read an interesting article a while back on Peterson, basically arguing that the real danger of that guy is that he does actually help some people, but this help is intertwined with his right wing politics. A bit like how David Irving’s legitimately good work on the Third Reich is also intertwined with his holocaust denialism. For years people argued that one was legitimate because the other was so thorough.

          So one trouble with Peterson is that criticising his politics is often related to criticising the books that got some lazy twenty-something off his arse and into tertiary education, or helpd deal with their depression.

          Another is that Peterson is a good and often respectful debater, not like the trolls here. So if you miss a beat, he’ll make a polite point, and then it’ll be posted by a fanboi as “Peterson SLAMS libtard!”

      • McFlock 16.2.2

        The last bit is interesting, but I think ignores two key pieces of context. Firstly, her “it’s ok to be white” tshirt – that’s not about culture. Secondly, she’s part of a double act, and the tweeting of their event the other day clearly places him in the alt-right area.

        Now, they’re both after clicks, but one’s mutt and the other is Jeff. Molyneaux panders to the full alt-right, Southern dogwhistles at a high enough pitch that she can argue she’s not that bad. But they’re on the same team.

      • greywarshark 16.2.3

        The audience for Lauren in /australia were at least able to go and listen to her. Some of the most despised people she talks about are on Manus or christmas Island or are dead. She is complaining from an easy chair in comparison with them.

        A young Iranian who looks too young to die, but did was featured on Radionz this morning. Does she care to think about his young life?

        Hamid Khazaei, who was 24, died when his life support was switched off at a Brisbane Hospital in September 2014, twelve days after he had gone to a clinic at Australia’s asylum seeker detention centre with a simple infection in his leg.

        In a 131-page report, the Queensland Coroner, Terry Ryan, identified several systemic flaws in the healthcare provided for those detained by Canberra on remote islands in the Pacific.

        Among the flaws was the fact the clinic at Manus, an equatorial island in the north of PNG, did not have the antibiotics needed to treat tropical infections, and a series of delays in transferring patients who need hospital care off the island.

  16. SaveNZ 17

    No wonder the ratepayers can’t afford proper sewerage anymore, and are consenting construction that is unsafe like Bella Vista!

    Instead the councils are so busy doing PPP’s and becoming developers with the risk that involves with ratepayers money! Absolutely disgusting – should go out for ratepayer votes to approve or be banned by government!

    “Tauranga City Council’s vote to partner with development company Willis Bond & Co to build a $62 million pair of civic buildings and an international brand hotel in the CBD scraped through 6-5 behind closed doors last month.”

    They’ll be crying in a downturn, with climate change influences and if the costs rise or if they do a Bella Vista and fuck it up as they have already done!



  17. cleangreen 18

    1000% well said Savenz.

    Meanwhile down at the ‘National Party circus’ this was written about their weekend junket of hollow talking heads meeting.

    Gordon Campbell summed up the weekend Natiional Party Confrerence perpectly about their stupid policies annouced Sunday, as they tripped over again when Bridges attempted to attack Winston again and looked as silly as even as his verbal attack of Winston just bounced off and never made any impact at all.


    Quote Gordon Campbell; – “Yet in line with the old timey nature of the National Party conference the public would be well advised to recall the old cliché…. about those who cannot remember the past, risk being condemned to repeat it. If the weekend’s conference told us anything, it is that this country can’t afford to put this lot back behind the wheel.”

  18. Rosemary McDonald 19

    In the meantime, Parakai/Kaipatiki oldies facing eviction from plush campground.

    ” “The last meeting they told us we had six months to move out, take our caravans and leave this place how it was when we first moved in.”

    Roy Ayers, 88, who had lived at the park for four years, said he didn’t know if he could find a new home by January.

    “I’d have to sell my caravan and all my belongings, but I doubt it would be easy to find a home fit for a pensioner at this time.”

    The close-knit residents help each other out with cooking and keep an eye on each other, residents said.

    Allen, 73, who had lived at the site for 17 years, said he was at a complete loss of his options.”

    This is pretty shit, IMHO. Homelessness and poverty at near record highs and an Auckland Council/Iwi cooperative are going to put elderly caravan dwellers out on the street to make way for more lucre rich tourists.

    Maybe they have dealt with the mozzie problem.


    The Transformation Group have Big Plans…


    ….there’s no reason why the restoration and development of the reserve and campground cannot go on around these old people. FFS, just decree no new residents and inform the existing ones that there will be some disruption while work goes on. Heavens….some of them might be happy to plant a few trees or make morning tea for volunteer workers. Some of them look like they’ll be shuffling off soon anyway.

    But hang on a minute….that might not go down too well with the mooted ‘private investors’. They might stipulate vacant possession.

    This is really shit. Can’t say that too many times. Any chance they’ll reconsider? That the Parakai/Helensville community will rise up to defend these people?

  19. Cinny 20

    Having meet and spoken with nick smith on a number of occasions, I’ve found him to be a ‘i’m always right, never wrong’ type of person.

    So this came as no surprise….

    Select Committee chair Raymond Huo said Nick Smith’s behavior disrupted the committee

    Huo said that the committee had accepted the response from the officials that they had nothing to add to their submission.

    “From the committee’s point of view all questions and answers were fourthcoming.”

    Huo said by holding back the report Smith was letting down his party and the submitters whose voices would now be lost.

    “He has not just let his party down but also the general public, including those submitters,” Huo said.

    “The Justice Committee is a very busy committee. We have enjoyed a strong level of collegiality, until, very frankly the arrival of Nick Smith,” Huo said.

    “He should be the father of the House rather than the bane of the Select Committee.”


    Q9 today…

    Hon Dr NICK SMITH to the Minister of Justice: Does he agree with the statements on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill made by Greens co-leader Marama Davidson on Friday that, “it is a bill which is undemocratic”, and that this bill “does threaten democracy”?

    Link for the 2pm live stream

  20. AsleepWhileWalking 22

    Eh. Another breach of name suppression of a sex abuse victim, the second in only a month or so.
    Prison time for you.


    • joe90 22.1

      Yes, that Kerry Bolton.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.2

      Mr Bolton said he was seeking a judge-alone trial because he thought a judge would “better see the situation involved, hopefully.”

      So, does that mean he expects the judge to understand it from a man’s perspective?

  21. greywarshark 23

    Despite the seemingly constant reports of violence = are we becoming less so when you take an overview.
    Posited in recent Reith lecture.

  22. eco maori 24

    Good morning NewsHub
    Heaps of tangata are looking at house’s on the internet I wonder why .
    Mark you had a big wasp nest in your house Eco Maori had another indirect connection to the Block through my old job there will be some who know what I’m on about.
    Yes Eco Maori gives Winston Peters a 10 out of 10 for his time as acting Prime Minster .
    of Aotearoa .
    Duncan just because a government is humane and care about the environment does not mean that they are not a business friendly government they are just going to share the pie more evenly whats so wrong with that.
    A strong mind is good to have its good to have a couple of tools to cope with the pressure’s of society looking for the positive thing in most situations being proud of your heritage and the gifts from my tipuna.s
    Martin good on your son becoming a teacher yes becoming a grandparent changes the way one see’s life its a eye opener .
    Ka kite ano P.S back to chasing my mokopuna.s

  23. eco maori 25

    This is a positive move for te mokopunas future there would have been more wind farms built they were in the planning stages but some short sighted government decided to invest in coal and got burned .
    We need to use all of the green energy options so we can provide a clean green future for te mokopunas link below ka kite ano


  24. eco maori 26

    Here we go the the GO OIL PARTY link below do these people have children or mokopuna’s this show’s Eco Maori the care more for money and power than a future for there offspring WTF one is using my hand signs lol Ana to kai link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jul/30/america-spends-over-20bn-per-year-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-abolish-them Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 26.1

      Good evening Newshub there you go big apple grower’s cheating and have been caught they will put Aotearoa bio security at risk just to make more money is what I see.
      That’s the way te tangata of the Bell Vista scandal take the Tauranga council to court and expose all the ways the wealthy cheat and the dirty work they do.
      That’s the way Chris look out side the square to solve our tradey shortage .
      I think its stupid that Air New Zealand is advertising meat free bugers when NZ is a major high quality meat exporter who’s on the board of Air New Zealand he did not look to confident about the prospects of the dingy he bailed on .
      Ka pai Qantas Australier for tautokoing Aotearoa Farmers .
      Ka kite ano . P.S I can see the blocking or trying to block Eco Maori’s influnce since the national convention. simon with both hands with fingers crossed looks real confident.
      Ka kite ano

  25. eco maori 27

    The Crowd Goes Wild The rugby on the weekend was exciting.
    The Warriors Wahine team is a big step up for Wahine sports ka pai.
    You will already know what Eco Maori thought of Joseph fight on the weekend
    Good on the Big man Steven Adams coming out with his depression problems Ka pai.
    Yea M8 I know what its like to have false story being spread about you Ka kite ano
    P.S James and Mulls how’s about you two go no pole danceing with the stars . YEA RIGHT

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