Open mike 31/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 31st, 2015 - 133 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

133 comments on “Open mike 31/07/2015 ”

  1. The Fairy Godmother 1

    Does anyone have a link to what Andrew little actually said about the national anthem. My understanding is that he said he didn’t like it much but unlike John key he had better things to do than campaign for it to change. ZB talk back has twisted it to saying he wants to change the anthem.

    • BM 1.1

      Labour leader Andrew Little has described the national anthem as a “dirge” and said many New Zealanders preferred to sing along to the Australian anthem than our own.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11488272

      The anthem isn’t the greatest but why he made the Australian comment really leaves me scratching my head.

      Talk about making life tough for yourself.

      • b waghorn 1.1.1

        Key talks gibberish most days and yet you choose to make a big deal of one off the cuff remark by Little ,look out you’re true colours are showing again.

        • BM 1.1.1.1

          The point about the anthem was completely destroyed by saying people would prefer singing the Australian anthem.

          All this has done is put peoples backs up, bit of a own goal to be honest.

          • adam 1.1.1.1.1

            “Australians all let us rejoice
            For we are young and BM free
            We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil,
            BM waffle is girt by sea: “

            • Rodel 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps we need lyrics that express what NZ is all about- such as this excerpt from the USA anthem Star Spangled Banner.

              “…And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
              Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there…”

          • David H 1.1.1.1.2

            Looks it’s simple. In this day and age, when we are being sold down the river by the Government. Who gives a royal fuck about the goddam anthem or the bloody Flag!

        • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1.2

          Because John Key has the job and has held it since 2008 so the voters of NZ have an idea of what hes about.

          Andrew Little has really only come to be known by the voting public for, what, six months so hes not really known at all so when he comes out with comments like this its what people will remember about him

      • Skinny 1.1.2

        Not the greatest track for Little to be heading down. Maybe it’s the God bothering aspect? God of….God defend….Christian God we haven’t seen you for a while.

        I actually really like and prefer the Maori version which sounds beautiful compared to the hum drum english version. I love hearing school children singing along to the Maori version it makes ya proud of Te Reo. Is a pity not enough Kiwi’s bother to learn the words, All Black games in Christchurch are a classic example.

        • BM 1.1.3.1

          Yes, it does have a smell of desperation to it and just generally being a bit of a tool by trying to throw spanners in the works.

      • cogito 1.1.4

        Pokarekare ana could be a good national anthem. Great sing-along that everyone loves. Is there an English version…? and if not wouldn’t be hard to come up with some suitable lyrics.

        Personally, I would be more favourable to a change in national anthem than in a change in flag. The flag should remain the same.

        • BM 1.1.4.1

          I’m all for changing the flag, we’re no longer a British colony and the flag really isn’t representative of modern NZ.

          Also it’s a great opportunity for NZ to get a bit of extra coverage on the world stage.

          Fairly average about the anthem apart from All Black games and the Olympics who ever hears it.

          • cogito 1.1.4.1.1

            I want the Union Jack to stay.

          • Gangnam Style 1.1.4.1.2

            “representative of modern NZ” – which will date it for future generations, I mean are we going to continually update our flag to be “representative of modern NZ”.

            What the fuck does “modern NZ” even mean? Its a vanity project for the PM & everyone knows it.

            • BM 1.1.4.1.2.1

              The flag is representative of our colonialist past where all we were was a British Empire out post.

              Modern NZ is a multicultural country that sells it’s products world wide, about we got a flag that represented that.

              The only opposition seems to be coming from whiny old fossils and some lefties, who are actually for it but would rather try to fuck up the process due to their irrational hatred of John Key, then support it.

              • cogito

                For your info, Britain is also “a multicultural country that sells it’s products world wide”. There is absolutely nothing outdated about retaining a visible link to a country that not only is intrinsically linked to NZ through the Treaty, heritage, democratic institutions and customs over many generations, but which is also a European and world leader in any number of different areas.

              • Skinny

                I agree the current flag is crap get rid of the shackles to Empire and toss out the sons and daughters of generations of royal toilet cleaners while we are at it, those bludgers have sucked enough money out of us. Let’s become an independent Nation. And ditch the National anthem, or at least the reference to Gods.

                • cogito

                  @Skinny

                  Are you the face of the “Modern NZ” with your mindless rant? If so, the old one was miles better. God Save The Queen.

                  • Skinny

                    Well if your so in love with the royal bludgers and Mother England you could always you know what.

    • mickysavage 1.2

      This debate reminds me of this Billy Connolly clip …

      • ianmac 1.2.1

        Yes. Billy puts it all in perspective. Great clip Micky.

      • swordfish 1.2.2

        Ha, I had precisely the same thought. An Audience with Billy Connolly from the mid-80s. I remember recording the whole programme at the time on an arcane thing known as ‘A Video Recorder’. (Too complex to explain to younger readers but it was very similar to a gyrocopter – the precursors of today’s helicopter).

        Great to see all those sad old BBC showbiz luvvies of the 80s, some even elaborately endowed with mullet hairdos.

    • Ch_ch chiquita 1.3

      I think this is what you were looking for:

      “That is not a poor reflection on New Zealanders, many of whom would like something different, many of whom would like a change. Many of them want a change to the national anthem, too, because they are sick of singing a dirge every time you turn up to a festive occasion. Most of them sing along to the Australian national anthem before they sing along to our own. They want something different, but they do not want it at a time—and they do not want this Government, which parades itself as the great financial managers and the great financial responsibility – people of the generation, spending $17 million—when this country can ill afford it. ”

      http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/debates/debates/51HansD_20150728_00000020/new-zealand-flag-referendums-bill-%E2%80%94-second-reading

      • The Fairy Godmother 1.3.1

        Thanks for that Ch_ch chiquita that is what I was looking for. It looks like the whole thing was totally taken out of context and Andrew Little’s ideas were misrepresented – an academic offence as bad as plagiarism. It seems like the media are desperate to find something anything to pin on Little, untrue when he basically said their are heaps of problems out there and spending time on the flag is a waste of time and although he understands why some people might want to change it as he might want to change the anthem now is neither the time or place.

  2. Wairua 2

    When a boatload of highly motivated entrepreneurs next beaches itself in John Keys electorate he should go down there to thank them for the increased competition and remind them that there is no reichstag .. sorry, upper house .. to prevent *any* future prime minister changing our flag on a whim.

  3. Saarbo 3

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11489246

    A good article on NZ’s Dairy demise out of todays NZH.

    • Charles 3.1

      “Critics like to compare Fonterra – unfavourably – with the successful but tiny co-op Tatua. But that criticism overlooks the fact that Tatua operates deep in the heart of prime Waikato dairy country, with most of its suppliers close to its processing facilities. While Tatua focuses on high end, niche products, Fonterra’s sheer size means it doesn’t have the same luxury.”

      It’s almost as if they haven’t heard of what American corps were doing in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. It ‘s almost as if they’re thick as shit. Have any of them studied at Harvard? Do any of them even have an MBA?

      “We don’t have the same luxury… boohooohooohoooooo!”

      This why we can’t have nice things. They don’t even know the parameters of their own stupid game, but goddamnit, they want respect… yessireee! Must be the po’ folk’s fault – not working hard enough, long enough, cheap enough.

    • Ad 3.2

      Also sad that Theo Spierings is clear in another article that he will not change direction.

      In both international trade diplomacy, and in economic management, this is a catastrophe of political leadership about our largest company by the Prime Minister.

      National will lose the farming community over this.
      National will also lose media sentiment.

      Key must act.

  4. adam 4

    Last night Bernie Sanders had an online organisation meeting, with at least 600 networked local organisation meetings across America. Now one of the reasons I like Bernie, is this clip – He is the leader for the president, but stands aside when other leaders are needed on other issues. If only we had more of that on the left in NZ.

    • ianmac 4.1

      Amazing chap that Bernie. And he is gaining resonance. No doubt the knives will be out to try and demolish him. Perhaps they will call on Whaleoil’s Dirty Tricks to help wipe him out?

    • Bill 4.2

      Jeez Adam, ease up! Next you’ll be openly stating that the power of ideas should take precedence over the power of (vain)glorious leaders! 😉

  5. Tiger Mountain 5

    the ‘yankee devils’ sure do things differently with their politics, Bernie would just make the Labour party here, but over there he is a “god damn socialist”

    • adam 5.1

      He is just a social democrat – lets you know how far to the right american politics has gone.

  6. Northsider 6

    The arrogant clique that believes they are born to rule the Labour Party in England are getting their comeuppance. For too long a small elite followed a path through Oxbridge directly into party jobs and then parachuted into safe seats against the wishes of the locals. Jeremy Corbyn’s ascent has challenged that clique. Labour everywhere needs to overturn the self serving technocrats who are responsible for the current state of powerlessness.n

    Remind you of the career path of many in Wellington? The Labour Party here needs to be a lot tougher on the smug group that believes they get the cabinet posts once their turn come in the “cycle”.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7

    http://www.philquin.com/blog/2015/7/30/judging-by-their-discussion-paper-labours-future-of-work-involves-a-lot-of-cutting-and-pasting

    Well looking on the positive side since Robertsons plagiarised others work it means the document is probably well written 🙂

    • Northsider 7.1

      Amy student caught doing that in a paper would have the paper rejected, get a fail and have some further sanction applied.

      • Tracey 7.1.1

        dont be so sure. they would appeal, threaten to drop out and in a desire to retain eft … thats money to ordinary folk…. an exception would be made

        • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1

          I don’t have an issue with this in all seriousness, if a politician can find something on-line that explains what they’re talking about then they should use it

        • Northsider 7.1.1.2

          All 3rd level teacher use the software to check papers for plagerism. It’s the teachers call how to respond: many, I’d say most, would reject this attempt.

          • McFlock 7.1.1.2.1

            god yeah – third year students would be in the shit.

            Although on the flipside this is a website, not an academic work. I recall one health and safety manual that had a section on dealing with workplace stress – one of the suggestions was to go for a sauna at the Waikato Students’ Union recreation centre. My employer at the time was in Dunedin 🙂

          • Tracey 7.1.1.2.2

            tertiary can use turnitin BUT that doesnt determine the co sequence. too often the folding stuff wins through.

      • McFlock 7.1.2

        lol they’ve now added footnotes that weren’t in google cache version from last night.

    • maui 7.2

      Wow, this Quin guy is a really helpful Labour Party member. First create a think tank of where Labour policy is all wrong and now he’s just lobbing grenades in from the outside.

      • Northsider 7.2.1

        If we allow our leaders to feel they are beyond reproach they will end up like the English Labour Party.

    • rhinocrates 7.3

      Calling Robertson a plagiarist suggests that the poseur actually did some work, expending actual energy. Possibly even thinking.

      • rhinocrates 7.3.1

        Actually, since that oil slick Goff is supposedly being pensioned off to try to be the next ageing middle-class white guy to be mayor of that multicultural metropolis, Auckland, with Robertson’s penchant for plagiarism, couldn’t be be sold to the Maxim Institute?

      • Bill Drees 7.3.2

        Labour’s greatest resource is its Policy generation capability . We can produce more and better policy than every other party put together and more again.

        Why the hell did Robertson have to resort to this when we have the real stuff by the bucketful. Is there a disconnect between our Policy Council and the front bench ?

    • Bill 7.4

      Unfortunately, there’s a reasonable argument to be had that Labour are a cut and paste party. They scout around and ‘focus group’ on various bits and pieces then paste together something they reckon we’ll vote for.

      Contrast with Corbyn of UK Labour or the SNP…they know where they stand and what they stand for, and then say where they stand and promote things on the basis of what they stand for.

      Reminds me of a recent opinion piece in ‘the Guardian’. DJ’s. New comes along and puts a set together on what they imagine punters want. They fade away…just the ‘same old, same old’. Another new one comes along and plays what they themselves want and like. Audience numbers might drop initially, but then….

  8. JeevesPOnzi 8

    I’m resolving to cut back on dairy products until I lose another 5 kilos, or the price starts coming down to meet global prices.

  9. Molly 9

    Like the way that the Shell No kayaktivists have reclaimed the activist tag.

    They continue their protest after Obama grants consent for exploratory drilling in the Artic. (Good photos.)

  10. Tracey 10

    are we seeing a secret deal to make key and groser look good? dairy industry spokespeople from nz and canada suggest retractable positions. are they being duped too and the pollies will announce a deal? problem for canada is a good deal for groser and key will lead to outrage in the canadian dairy community?

    just seems key and groser at complete odds with our main exporter over achievements in tpp?

    will key and groser really sign something that is useless for dairy or will that clause state that discussions will be ongoing? which is still a loss for nz dairy.

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1

      I get the feeling that Key is biding his time, letting the left say its all doom and gloom about the partnership and then he’ll make an announcement thats quite good for NZ and will make the left look like chicken Littles (again)

      • Sabine 10.1.1

        so you are saying that the Federated Farmers are on the left side of the political spectrum?

        http://www.fedfarm.org.nz/

        and Fonterra is also on the left side of the political spectrum?

        http://www.fonterra.com/nz/en/About/Our+Locations/NewZealand

        really?

        like double really?

        oh boy oh boy oh boy

        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1

          I’m saying that like the previous budget where National suggested it was going to be tight and the Left led by the exulted Andrew Little made all sorts nonsense statements and Key then announced that benes would be getting an increase in their payments thereby making the left and Mr Andrew Little look like they’d jumped the gun

          • Enough is Enough 10.1.1.1.1

            You mean the budget where Key PROMISED us a surplus, then delivered a $100B debt?

          • freedom 10.1.1.1.2

            “announced that benes” beneficiaries with children “would be getting an increase in their payment”
            the spin might anger National party supporters more easily the way you parrot it, but sorry PR -facts matter

      • ianmac 10.1.2

        You could be right. Key signs. Lauds the wonderful job he has done. Ra RA Ra.
        But the actual text is embargoed for four years!
        By the time we find out just what he has done he will be off to be the Chairman of IMF or something.

        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.1

          Well its a simple trick isn’t it especially when you know whats in the deal but the opposition doesn’t

          • Sabine 10.1.2.1.1

            and you are ok with an elected official signing an agreement that is binding for your and your offspring, but who will not let you know what the heck he is signing.

            Are you sure that you are as comfortable about this as is dear Leader, who is financially well cushioned, who can leave this country to live elsewhere, and who surely will be profiting from signing this “Free Trade Agreement”.

            Are you ?

            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.1.1.1

              Yes I am, our politicians are voted in because we decide we want them to make the decisions on running this country so I’m comfortable about this

              • Sabine

                We did not decide that,

                WE (i) and a million others effectively voted against dear Leader, WE (1 million) are so dis-interested or dis-enfranchised they did not vote at all, and WE (you and 1 million others) voted for National, The Maori Party, The conservatives and any of the others supplier parties that support the National Party in its endeavors.

                So not WE did not decide anything. And even you are not deciding anything, considering that no one is asking you 🙂

                I just asked if you were comfortable to be signed up for an agreement which is going to cost you more in Health Care, and so on.

                But obviously you are….so as you were.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  The old we didn’t agree to it so National don’t have a mandate arguement again

                  Don’t worry I’ll remember that when Labour eventually are able to form a government

                  • Sabine

                    Puckish, it is a democracy, so while National won they will also have two rule for the two million people that did not vote for them.

                    Are you happy for a dictator? Puckish, is that what you actually are looking for …. a Putin style figure? Really?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      All of the right-wing prefer dictatorship. You can see it in everything that they say on here, the way that they support this governments dictatorial actions that go against what the people of NZ want.

        • Enough is Enough 10.1.2.2

          No in four years Key will hopefully be in Mt Eden awaiting sentencing on his treason and corruption convictions.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.2.1

            In fours time John Key will still be the leader of NZ and will be preparing to step down 🙂

        • Marvellous Bearded Git 10.1.2.3

          @ianmac
          Someone will leak the text.

          • ianmac 10.1.2.3.1

            What puzzles me MBG is how after the treaty has been signed how can it be debated/approved/disapproved by any of the other parties unless it is in the other MPs hands?

            • Marvellous Bearded Git 10.1.2.3.1.1

              Me too. What the hell is going on?

              I guess we have to rely on Honest-John* assuring us that voting for it will be good for NZ…..cue hollow laugh.

              I think parliament knew what was in the Korea and China deals before they were voted on?

              *sarc

        • tc 10.1.2.4

          He’ll be in a role enforcing or benefitting what he’s implementing now.

          It’s how the bankstas work.

      • maui 10.1.3

        PR, there won’t be any surprise that this will be good for NZ. There may be some lie dished out that it is, but that will be quickly seen through. NZ is the equivalent of a 6 year old child turning up to the negotiating table, we’ll be given a couple of sweets by mummy and daddy and told to run along, which we’ll do rather excitedly.

      • Tracey 10.1.4

        you realise the dairy industry people being negative are probably nat voters

        • tc 10.1.4.1

          dairy is just another commodity to trade in keys world.

          He’s not focused on a 4th Term he’s assured his future by implementing the backers hollowmen checklist.

  11. mac1 11

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/70508896/marlborough-ecosystems-being-destroyed

    Feeling a bit dejected today with the above news that was highlighted today on National Radio.

    What can happen to a beautiful environment when there is little restriction upon harmful activities by companies and individual boat owners to harm the Sounds seabed by siltation from forestry, dredging and the use of anchors.

    One generation of Kiwis (and the odd overseas-owned company) who have caused significant degradation, assisted by insufficent protection afforded by national and local government, insufficient monitoring and policing, lack of authority to make the changes.

    • Gangnam Style 11.1

      I heard on the radio the other day that big salmon farm was looking to expand down here in the south, they were talking about creating farms around Stewart Island & Milford Sound, which seems crazy to me environmentally wise)

  12. BM 12

    Must say the site’s running slower then a wet week.

    When I open up Chrome developer tools , there’s lots of 504 errors.

    I noticed that there was also an error relating to this bit of code

    [script type=”text/javascript”]
    // do this late so the display updates after jquery runs
    document.getElementById(“single-top”).style.visibility = “visible”;
    document.getElementById(“single-bottom”).style.visibility = “visible”;
    [/script]

    You might want to use this

    https://learn.jquery.com/using-jquery-core/document-ready/

  13. Lynda Brown 13

    Please please tell me Grant Robertson did not plagiarise other people’s work without giving credit in an official Labour Party discussion paper.
    Too many own goals lately.

    • Karen 13.1

      It was evidently Clare Curran. How stupid can you get.

    • alwyn 13.2

      I would love to be able to tell you that Lynda.
      The only problem is that if I did so I would be lying and not being an MP I don’t do that.
      Sorry but he did copy the material. Someone cancel his Economist subscription.

      • Puckish Rogue 13.2.1

        I can’t believe i’m doing this but I really don’t see what the big deal is, if what he copied and pasted is the same as what he wants put down on paper then why not use it?

        At the very least it probably makes it more readable then the usual political waffle that comes out

        • Lanthanide 13.2.1.1

          That’s my sort of feeling on it, too.

          Yes, plagiarism is stupid and it ‘looks bad’, but on the other hand, at least they’re plagiarising from a fairly authoritative and respected source?

          • ianmac 13.2.1.1.1

            Herald: “Labour Party MP Clare Curran has apologised for lifting paragraphs from business magazine The Economist for an issues paper on the “Future of Work”.

            Ms Curran, the party’s ICT spokeswoman, admitted this afternoon that sections of the issues paper which she was responsible for had not been attributed.

            “A large number of documents were used during the research for this paper, from many sources over a period of weeks and months,” the Dunedin South MP said in a statement.”

            Be no point in deliberately plagiarising so benefit of the doubt?

            And wasn’t it kind of ex-Labour supporter Phil Quin to go public so that Clare would have no chance to correct.

            • Anne 13.2.1.1.1.1

              And wasn’t it kind of ex-Labour supporter Phil Quin to go public so that Clare would have no chance to correct.

              My thoughts too ianmac. He is all heart and generosity of spirit. Especially where the LP is concerned. (sarc)

              Having spent the last five or more years publicly running down Labour at every opportunity, I was surprised to discover he was still a member…

          • Karen 13.2.1.1.2

            I have no problem with cut and paste as log as you acknowledge the source in a footnote. Clare has only added footnotes because she was caught out.

            The point is that was a stupid thing to do for someone who claims to be a communication expert.

            • Roflcopter 13.2.1.1.2.1

              It’s worse than that, the citations were all re-worded slightly, so trying to just say she forgot the footnotes is a load of shit.

            • Draco T Bastard 13.2.1.1.2.2

              Yep. If you take a quote from a source make sure that it’s actually in quotation marks and is sourced. It’s not that hard and both MS Word and LibreOffice have referencing systems and both can also export to PDF.

              • Anne

                If you take a quote from a source make sure that it’s actually in quotation marks and is sourced.

                It amazes me that anyone wouldn’t know to do that unless they were trying to pretend it was their own work. I don’t know……… sigh.

          • Tracey 13.2.1.1.3

            chuckle…. but why not acknowledge. .. unless you claimed to have spent weeks on it instead of a day?

    • Ovid 13.3

      Facepalm. I mean, I like the Economist, but the overlap between political nerds and Economist readers is quite high.

  14. Tautoko Mangō Mata 14

    So the Police are going to carry tasers at all times. Are they anticipating civil unrest??

    • Sabine 14.1

      compliance enforcement.

      still late for any crime…..and no good for anything other then writing tickets, but at least they get to torture their compatriots.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      Are they anticipating civil unrest??

      Probably as it’s generally what happens when dictatorships oppress the poor to enrich the wealthy.

  15. Lynda Brown 15

    How could she?

    • Karen 15.1

      Clare Curran has always been a lightweight. Good intentions, but too willing to make the easy hits without doing the real work required.

      I really wish they’d give broadcasting to somebody who has a better handle on the problem than she has ever exhibited. Unfortunately Labour have never understood how important public broadcasting is to democracy.

  16. Olwyn 16

    This is a good, clearly expressed article on Greece, Europe and the neo-liberal project.
    http://www.redpepper.org.uk/finance-vs-democracy-in-greece/

    In reading this, and other similar pieces over the past few months, I have come to see why the adherents of neo-liberalism claim to reject ideology, and to be ideology-free themselves. Along with Plato’s Thrasymachus, they think that “justice is the will of the powerful,” and that this is just the way the world is. To do well, you must roll with the fact rather than fruitlessly beat your head against it. John Key and Paula Bennett, for example, very likely see things in just this light. However, when dissent breaks out around the edges of the “realist” view to which they are committed, they are forced to defend it as an ideology, whether or not they class it as one.

    • Tracey 16.1

      thanks for the link.

      the nbr is suggesting that success is measure in millions. by that definition we are a nation of failures… minus a few people. such nonsense of a measure. however the growth of their wealth since gfc in stark comparrison to wages for middle class and lower shows something is wrong and it isnt just about working hard.

    • Draco T Bastard 16.2

      What’s happened to Greece over the last few years is probably the best proof we have that capitalism is anathema to democracy.

      • Olwyn 16.2.1

        I agree. At least the Syriza government has robbed them of democracy as a fig leaf under which to operate. Their tyranny is now out in the open.

        • Draco T Bastard 16.2.1.1

          Wow, did you really do that? Blame Syriza for the undemocratic actions of the Troika in forcing austerity upon Greece?

          The tyranny is from the private banks and others who want their pound of flesh.

          • Olwyn 16.2.1.1.1

            Sorry – terrible wording, I was a bit tired and distracted at the time. I meant that in dealing with Syriza, who took democracy’s side against them, they were forced to show themselves for the tyrants they are.

  17. Sabine 17

    absurdistan is us

    http://www.metromag.co.nz/current-affairs/how-bizarre/

    or maybe we wanna call it bizarro world 🙂

  18. ianmac 18

    Thanks Sabine. Brilliant work by Graham. Love the report on Mr Shaws speech to Parliament regarding our supporting in the Middle East,

    “The Countering Terrorist Fighters Legislation Bill, which was passed in this House yesterday after several minutes of careful consideration and thoughtful debate… is designed to stop New Zealanders from going to fight for the Islamic State, which is fighting the Iraqi government, which we support. And we will shortly be sending the military over to help Iraq fight the Islamic State, which definitely will not have any New Zealanders fighting with them because we said so – yesterday.

    “We also support Saudi Arabia, which also supports the Islamic State, which is fighting the government of Iraq, which we also support. The Middle East is a very supportive environment right now. Our military will feel well-supported when they get over there. I will tell this House whom we do not support, and that is President al-Assad in Syria. We do support some of the freedom fighters who are fighting against President al-Assad, who are primarily led by the Islamic State, but we do not support the Islamic State. We also do not support Iran, which also does not support the Islamic State, and which does support the government of Iraq, which we do support……”

  19. gsays 19

    Hi bill, re focus group politcking:
    i recently watched tony benn clip on weathercocks vs signposts.
    How appropriate

  20. Draco T Bastard 20

    This type of shit was prevalent amongst the rich and powerful of Rome just before its collapse as well:

    The powerful, wealthy Roman Emperors inevitably became corrupt and many lived a debauched and immoral lifestyle.

    A decline in morals, especially in the rich upper classes and the emperors, had a devastating impact on the Romans. Immoral and promiscuous sexual behaviour including adultery and orgies.

    In fact, there is much in that article that mirrors a lot of what is happening in today’s society especially the corruption and debauchery of the rich.

    • adam 20.1

      Have you read “Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle” by Chris Hedges – Draco T Bastard? Fits nicely with what your saying.

      “A culture that does not grasp the vital interplay between morality and power, which mistakes management techniques for wisdom, and fails to understand that the measure of a civilization is its compassion, not its speed or ability to consume, condemns itself to death.”
      ― Chris Hedges, Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle

  21. whateva next? 21

    I see the media are hoeing into the “Future of Work” bu Labour, no surprises there then….

  22. whateva next? 22

    I see they are hoeing into Labour’s “Future of Work” in the media already, jealous maybe?

    • Colonial Rawshark 22.1

      Labour’s future of work programme is well meaning, but wrong headed. Labour can’t even deal with today’s youth unemployment let alone that of the next 20 years. Climate change, immediate transition off fossil fuels, and caring/creative activities must be the centre points of the future of work.

      Or maybe everyone can become web site designers.

  23. emergency mike 23

    Hong Kong protester gets 3 1/2 months jail for assaulting a police officer with her breasts. Video shows her being shoved to the ground and blood streaming from her nose. No word on whether or not the police officer is ok.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/70721000/woman-jailed-after-accusing-police-officer-of-groping-her-during-protest-in-hong-kong

  24. James 24

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11490084

    “there is no evidence of criminal offending”.

    So that clears Cam on that count. One to Whaleoil.

  25. Draco T Bastard 25

    Australia needs to get over its recession ‘temperament’ says NZ prime minister John Key

    Nothing more needs to be said except that Key is telling Australia that they need more confidence and that we have growing confidence because economics is all about confidence.

    • greywarshark 25.1

      The sound of music – I have confidence. It’s all we need – business is so rationally economic, or economically rational and yet they take confidence readings, news items abound with the feelings of business people. It would be funny if it wasn’t so… funny.
      (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzs0oUUFWmM)

  26. Anne 26

    Oh dear oh dear,

    The police are covering up for Slater. Claim he and Ede committed no offence when they hacked into Labour’s computer system. Slater’s going to demand an apology from Little.

    Geez… I hope Little ridicules him and tells him where to get off in the strongest of language.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11490084

    • McFlock 26.2

      The letter from Mr Drew spelled Mr Hager’s name wrong and the name of the Labour Party general secretary Tim Barnett.

      Looks like they put the same amount of effort into the letter as they put into the rest of the investigation.

    • tinfoilhat 26.3

      I’ve read the police correspondence and can’t see how the police are “covering” for Slater ?

    • Alan W 26.4

      pretty strong claim there Anne, got any evidence to back it up??????

    • James 26.5

      Your tin foil hat is slipping and the crazy is coming out.

      Do you have any evidence AT ALL that the police are covering up for Slater?

      No?

      Thought not – thats simply being a liar.

  27. Morrissey 27

    Racism explodes in Australian football

    The infamous racism that has stained Australia for more than two centuries has blown up over the last week. I commend anyone who is interested to read the following article from the ABC website. Interestingly, and legitimately, “leftrightout” in the comments section compares Adam Goodes’ theatricality to the New Zealand haka. Depressingly, however, a couple of ignorami (“Fincon” and “doikus”) reckon there is no comparison. …

    Goodes’ war dance reveals our moral confusion
    by MICHAEL BRADLEY, Thursday 30 July 2015
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/bradley-goodes-war-dance-reveals-our-moral-confusion/6657960

    …. Certainly the serial booing of Goodes is racist and unjustifiable. The probability that most of the idiots doing it don’t have much idea why doesn’t excuse them.

    As for those who have sought to defend the victimisation of Goodes, their principal rationale seems to be that his imaginary spear throwing was offensively violent, or that somehow this is all his fault. As Alan Jones explained it, people aren’t booing Goodes because he’s black, they’re booing him because he’s a sook. He just needs to stop playing the victim over tiddling matters like people calling him an ape. This reverse logic is just a fig leaf to cover the latent racism that always lies just under the Australian surface and which Goodes has managed to provoke out of hiding.

    There is, however, an interesting conundrum here, for racists and anti-racists alike. Racism as a subject matter is actually a morass of confusion; morality, law, rights and emotions all mingled together in a mess that defies the drawing of distinct lines.

    Goodes probably knew he’d get a reaction. He was probably tired of being told to go back in the zoo and worse, tired of being minimised and objectified because of his skin colour and heritage. So he chose to respond with a potent piece of physical symbolism, and he hit a raw nerve. Not many AFL supporters would know that Governor Arthur Phillip was speared in the shoulder and nearly died at Manly Beach in 1790. But they are unconsciously reflecting a collective cultural memory of White Australia that Aborigines weren’t supposed to fight back, as well as the dread of what could happen when they did. ….

    Read more….
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/bradley-goodes-war-dance-reveals-our-moral-confusion/6657960

  28. burt 28

    Effective immediately the management of this prison must be replaced by a private company. Heads must roll and ministers responsible for the department running this place should resign.

    How does an inmate get a weapon into court ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/70721140/inquiry-into-how-remand-prisoner-had-weapon-when-he-appeared-in-court

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