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Open mike 31/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 31st, 2014 - 250 comments
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250 comments on “Open mike 31/08/2014 ”

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    • disturbed 1.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:56 am

      Today on TV 1 Q + A said” Police under section 116 (say’s Mathew Hooten today on TV1 Q+A) should be entering bee hive today to seize all computers and all records in Key’s offices, Collins, & Kaye and other minister’s implicated.
      This is urgently needed, and this should check any further damage, and send a shiver down the spines of those who destroyed our clean Government and corrupted the whole system.

      Then we THE VOTER AND CITIZEN can finally see justice being done.

      1. IMPORTANT, – URGENT.

      Today we call officially on all opposition parties.

      They must join together and must meet in an emergency forum to set the discussion surrounding the whole matter of political corruption within the Hager book and the laying of the grounds for the public interest in a truly independent commission of enquiry into the whole Slater gate affair with Team Key and His “black ops” “Dirty Politics” scandal reaching right back to when the records start with the Key Government and before.

      There will never be a more correct urgent time to jump on this issue and destroy the cancer before it destroys us all.
      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329005.html

      116 Conspiring to defeat justice
      Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who conspires to obstruct, prevent, pervert, or defeat the course of justice in New Zealand or the course of justice in an overseas jurisdiction.

      Compare: 1908 No 32 s 137

      Section 116: amended, on 18 June 2002, by section 6(1) of the Crimes Amendment Act 2002 (2002 No 20).

  2. karol 2
    31 August 2014 at 7:30 am

    Dear gods!

    So Odgers trawled through her email, and found what she thought was the smoking gun, because she knew Fairfax had something as a result of their investigation into the Hotchin issue and Slater being paid to run Hotchin’s lines.

    In fact, the newspaper did not have that particular incriminating email, and the hacker known as Rawshark said yesterday he did not have it either. “That email wasn’t leaked by me, I had nothing to do with it,” said Rawshark, who was also the source for Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics.

    But the newspaper did have a large tranche of emails that inform an in-depth investigation revealing Hotchin’s apparent backing for the smear campaign.
    […]
    The new documents obtained by the Star-Times appear to show PR consultant Graham paid Slater and Odgers to write dozens of posts attacking regulators and a possible witness.

    In one email, Odgers said: “Remind him [Hotchin] he pays cam n I to f— w FMA so he can focus on important things.”

    Another email appears to discuss plans to undermine the credibility of a potential witness in the Hanover investigation, property developer Tony Gapes.

    Graham wrote in one email: “Just off ph to MH . . . Seems our friend Tony Gapes is thinking he’s a bit of a star witness for the SFO against our man.”

    He added that Gapes “should have some sunlight shone on him. Enough to raise questions of credibility with the SFO”.

    • karol 2.1
      31 August 2014 at 7:41 am

      The emails Sunday Star Times has are from whaledump/rawsark.

      • Tom Jackson 2.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 8:04 am

        The “smoking gun” was provided by Odgers herself, who has now been sacked from her job.

        Someone needs to get her disbarred.

      • yeshe 2.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 8:04 am

        Being here on this morning, our lives have become a sequel to Peter Sellars’ “Being There”.

        And kudos to Ant yesterday spotting it was Hotchin very early in the day. Don’t we love the internet ?

        Gonna win this one and get our country back.

    • Tom Jackson 2.2
      31 August 2014 at 7:41 am

      Every week John Key had a private conversation with a man being paid to undermine a criminal investigation.

      Good show, John.

      Cunliffe needs to hammer him on this.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.3
      31 August 2014 at 7:59 am

      Yep, Odgers blinked first 😆

      I wonder if she’s angling for a plea bargain.

      • yeshe 2.3.1
        31 August 2014 at 8:06 am

        did you mean flea bargain ? nom nom nom 😀

        But I am wondering what they can be charged with ?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.3.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 8:13 am

          Fleas? Corrections mattresses might be too thin for KIm, I didn’t realise they were insect infested too 😀

      • miravox 2.3.2
        31 August 2014 at 9:39 am

        I’m sort of thinking that none of this implicates Collins. Did Key and Collins do a deal on the resignation? Of all the things she might have done that are corrupt this is not one of them so an investigation will clear her and pave the way for the Crusher to return to cabinet? (note that I only have web access – maybe there’s more in the printed SST?)

        Collins needs to be investigated for releasing a public servant’s information to a blog knowing he would be threatened. Plus her input into Slater’s ‘tip line’. Not to mention Oravida.

        • kiwigunner 2.3.2.1
          31 August 2014 at 10:22 am

          There must be something else.

        • Murray Olsen 2.3.2.2
          31 August 2014 at 9:25 pm

          I think Key and Collins chose this for her to resign on exactly because it doesn’t implicate her. That way Key can run an inquiry with narrow terms of reference. This will be designed to clear Gusher, but maybe throw Blubber Boy, Carrick Graham (that apple didn’t fall far from the tree), and that Cactus thing to the wolves. This will be the first sinking ship that the rats actually have to be kicked off.

          Key will then shout from the rooftops that Collins has been shown to be squeaky clean, and they’ll be back to business as usual, but with Farrar or someone else doing their dirty work. It’s as predictable as the day is long.

          • blue leopard 2.3.2.2.1
            31 August 2014 at 9:30 pm

            Yes that idea has passed across my mind too 🙁

          • miravox 2.3.2.2.2
            1 September 2014 at 1:45 am

            Yeah, minimising the terms of inquiry around an email with no conclusive proof is how I read it too.

            Btw, I wonder how proud Doug Graham is of his son in his chosen profession?

          • Colonial Viper 2.3.2.2.3
            1 September 2014 at 1:23 pm

            Labour and Greens need to win the election, and then they can set more suitable terms of reference for the Inquiry.

  3. fambo 3
    31 August 2014 at 7:50 am

    “They hate livestock almost as much as they hate people,” Mr English said of the Labour and Green parties – Wairararpa Times Age – Bill English sharing the hate at a public meeting in Masterton last Thursday.

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4
    31 August 2014 at 8:07 am

    How fantastic that yesterday’s email wasn’t part of the #whaledump haul. The VRWC is eating itself.

    Nom nom nom Prime Minister. Jason (my office) Ede’s up next 😈

    • Flipnz 4.1
      31 August 2014 at 8:12 am

      Let The Hunger Games begin….

    • yeshe 4.2
      31 August 2014 at 8:17 am

      more is promised today .. facebook twixt collins and slater. and there is a special edition of The Nation at 10 am TV3.

      • karol 4.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 8:32 am

        Ah, well, I’m working today. Will catch up on it later.

        And it seems Odger lost her Hong Kong job as a result of the latest revelations.

        Odgers was a figure in the Dirty Politics book and last week her Hong Kong-based employer Jeeves Group confirmed she was no longer a consultant for them “by mutual consent”.

        It is understood that decision was linked to emails being released by the hacker today, which are expected to show the bloggers were being paid to discredit Feeley.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 9:37 am

          All the financier’s men

          Those emails I suspect.

        • Tracey 4.2.1.2
          31 August 2014 at 11:56 am

          hotchins must have been paying her a fuck of alot given she would be on megabucks as a hong kong tax consultant. Lots is never enough to people like this.

          Meanwhile colins party has some nutjobs who should worry us. SST reports one who is speechifying in south auckland about a link between removing s59 defence and youth suicide, despite all evidence to the contrary and south auckland kids are going on the game for pocket money and getting Std… All cos od decriminalisation of prostitution.

          God save NZ from the right wing christians

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.2.1
            31 August 2014 at 1:40 pm

            Getting paid while also getting to play at being powerful? I’d say that it’s got everything your average, run of the mill psychopath wants in a job.

  5. Te Reo Putake 5
    31 August 2014 at 8:07 am

    Fun as yesterday was, we still have an election to win. Today, I’m walking the streets of Patea and Waverley to help Labour and my mate Hamish McDouall. Less than 3 weeks to go, comrades, and there’s work to be done.

  6. phillip ure 6
    31 August 2014 at 8:09 am

    “..5 Reasons Booze Is Deadlier than Heroin and Other Drugs That’ll Land You in Jail.

    No other drugs even come close..”

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/5-reasons-booze-deadlier-heroin-and-other-drugs-thatll-land-you-jail

    • crocodill 6.2
      31 August 2014 at 2:51 pm

      Booze is no laughing matter, it’s a killer and it’s amazing that weed is demonised from within a booze- soaked culture, but it is no way at all more dangerous than heroin. You are such a debatemonger, Phillip.

      • TheContrarian 6.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 3:10 pm

        It’s sort of a mixed bag with heroin. Theoretically, if your Heroin is clean and you always practice proper hygiene, not sharing needles and being careful with the dosage Heroin is extremely well tolerated by the body and will cause no lasting damage. The danger with heroin is the dose to over-dose ratio which is extremely thin not to mention impurities in the cook and that junkies tend to practice dangerous habits like needle sharing etc.

        • crocodill 6.2.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 3:31 pm

          I agree with you. The scenario was not defined, which is why the ambiguous “more dangerous than…” was so obviously a bit of exaggeration for debate’s sake. Right now Phillip is sitting back having a good old chuckle…

        • Murray Olsen 6.2.1.2
          31 August 2014 at 10:44 pm

          If you’ve got kidney problems, heroin can make them worse. I can’t see how the appropriate medical treatment for this is a prison sentence, but then I’m probably a bit slow.

  7. Logie97 7
    31 August 2014 at 8:12 am

    Bryan Gould would be an ideal member of The radio New Zealand panel on Jim Mora’s Afternoon show.

  8. Ad 8
    31 August 2014 at 8:13 am

    Agree with TRP there.

    Entertaining yesterday but…
    Focus on getting out the vote people.

  9. yeshe 9
    31 August 2014 at 8:20 am

    LPrent .. looks like you have been working through the night resolving the issues for TS .. thank you for looking after us all as this history unravels. I would be lost without you.

  10. just saying 10
    31 August 2014 at 8:35 am

    Liking the new font, Lprent, much easier on the eyes.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      31 August 2014 at 9:41 am

      And here’s me thinking it was bloody horrible.

      • Weepus beard 10.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 9:59 am

        San-serif fonts are also called “grotesque”, so you are not far wrong in a way, lol.

        San-serif fonts are slightly harder to read in big blocks without proper kearning and line spacing (that’s one of the reasons serifs exist!) but as I said below, they are friendlier.

        Some advice, if I may, to those writing large amounts is to paragraph diligently in order to avoid big blocks of text.

      • David H 10.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 10:57 am

        looks all washed out and patchy to me. Sorry to say. But an adjustment of the Cleartype makes it a little better. my res is 1366×768 on an Asus Laptop

    • miravox 10.2
      31 August 2014 at 9:42 am

      +1. It looks great.

    • lprent 10.3
      31 August 2014 at 10:09 am

      Open Sans. The main reason for going to it was that it is available across all devices (gets rid of nitpicky layout issues using a common font) and is very clear on small hires devices like tablets where the available serif fonts look clunky, dark, and unclear.

      As usual it is a tradeoff. In this case lower res large screens look better in the times roman. But there are fewer of those around every year.

      • weka 10.3.1
        31 August 2014 at 12:15 pm

        “But there are fewer of those around every year.”

        Do you know what the percentages are roughly?

      • Kevin Welsh 10.3.2
        31 August 2014 at 5:59 pm

        Sorry Lynn, but it is bloody terrible. I am a Typographer by trade and would rather crawl over broken glass than use Open Sans for comments on a website. But then, I am a purist.

        There is a reason that serif fonts are used for this type of work and it is because they are easier on the eye and the kerning is optimised for reading rather than display.

        What were the serif options?

  11. kenny 11
    31 August 2014 at 8:40 am

    According to Matthew Hooton, he was told (yesterday?) that the Prime Ministers office received the letter containing the email on WEDNESDAY. Therefore the PM knew about this on Wednesday (don’t try to tell me he didn’t). but chose not to do anything with it.

    I wonder why? Surely he did’nt think it would affect the leaders debate? If he won the debate, which he clearly didn’t, he could have ignored it. Because he lost he now chooses to use it to show how Prime Ministerial he is?

    How cynical is he!

    • Lanthanide 11.1
      31 August 2014 at 11:24 am

      Just ’cause the PM’s office knows something, doesn’t mean the PM himself does…

    • Rodel 11.2
      31 August 2014 at 11:35 am

      Kenny-Don’t buy any gospel according to Matthew Hooten.

      I’d bet Key has had the email since 2011-not Wednesday. But what else has he in his ‘top drawer’? He’s admitted he’s got a drawer full of useful incriminating stuff.

      • kenny 11.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 1:34 pm

        Hi Rodel – I buy into it precisely because it is from Hooton. If you saw him on Q & A this morning you would know that the shit is about to hit the fan. He’s in utu mood.

    • Tracey 11.3
      31 August 2014 at 11:59 am

      yes but thats his office. He didnt see it til friday night. I am not sure if by “I” he meant him. Wayne Eagleston would be out and about with Key wouldnt he, not in the office. SO wayne eagleston withheld it from key for two days…

    • karol 11.4
      31 August 2014 at 4:48 pm

      Interesting. If that’s so, then Key would have known about it before the Leaders’ debate on Thursday night. Many people said he was off his gamer then. And Cunliffe did put some pressure on him re-Colllins.

  12. yeshe 12
    31 August 2014 at 8:41 am

    Andrew Geddis essentialises perfectly in Blue on Blue at Pundit ( link on right hand side of this page):

    “Just so we’re absolutely clear about this: Judith Collins didn’t resign because of anything Nicky Hager did. Rather, she resigned because Cathy Odgers gave the PM’s office an email that neither Nicky Hager nor the hacker who stole a bunch of other information had seen, in which a certain blogger whom we don’t name said some stuff about Judith Collins that she claims is absolutely false.

    Is this is the best political scandal ever, or what?”

    • locus 12.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:07 am

      Open mike 31/08/2014

      miravox has it in a nutshell

    • tricledrown 12.2
      31 August 2014 at 1:50 pm

      Camoron Slater will be rushing down to the police station to have Odgers and Key charged with stealing private emails!

      • yeshe 12.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 1:53 pm

        Slater has already laid a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner about Key releasing his email.

        Biggest joke of course is Collins was Minister charged with overseeing the Privacy Commission !

  13. Paul 13
    31 August 2014 at 8:44 am

    Further evidence of the corporates attacking Science ( as shown in Dirty Politics) to maximise their profits! Supported by Slater, his cabal, the media and members of our government.
    It’ll be interesting to see Latta’s look at sugar in his excellent series this week.

    “The NZ Food & Grocery Council has flown in British anti-tax campaigner Chris Snowdon to lobby against soft drink taxes, in a move described by health researchers as suspicious.
    Following Dirty Politics’ allegations that the council ran sponsored posts on the Whale Oil blog, the industry group has drawn further controversy for inviting Snowdon to give a speech titled “growing calls for taxes on sugar and why such taxes do not work”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/10443122/Anti-sugar-campaigners-wowsers

  14. Travis 14
    31 August 2014 at 8:47 am

    The moderators over at the other place are going nuts. Sit there and watch the adverse comments coming up, then minutes later dissappear….they cant keep up though….so they sit there for a few minutes before they can get to them. Hilarious.
    Lots of questions being asked by the “army”….but the high priest isnt answering them!
    A liar. That is all he is. Problem being, I think he may well have to state that under oath sometime in the near future along with JC also under oath.
    Truth always prevails Cam!

    • kerry 14.1
      31 August 2014 at 9:17 am

      exactly I made a quick post about the connection between Slater and Hotchin within 2 minutes it was gone ,the house of cards is falling down.

  15. Weepus beard 15
    31 August 2014 at 8:49 am

    Nice new font. Very modern and much friendlier.

  16. phillip ure 16
    31 August 2014 at 8:53 am

    i am getting really interested in the second-tier players in this most-welcomed brouhaha..

    ..the edes/lusks/farrars/richs..

    ..and all of those craven media-trouts who have been doing the bidding of these grotesques..

  17. phillip ure 17
    31 August 2014 at 9:36 am

    parker hoisted on the petard of his own bullshit…

    ..parker said this the other day..and i said nothing..tongue bleeding from biting it..

    ..but here he is now repeating it..

    ..he seems determined to push this bullshit..that somehow labour last time promising to include welfare-families in working for familes..by fucken 2018..(!)..

    ..was the reason labour lost the last election..

    ..and he is arguing this is why he is giving his baby-bonus to people earning a hundred grand a year..

    ..so..summary:..

    ..labour are promising to do absolutely nothing for the childless poor..

    ..but are promising a $60 per wk ‘bonus’..for those earning $100,00..

    ..does any of this sound at all familiar..?

    ..clarks’ crocodile-tears over families ‘struggling’ on seventy grand a year..to justify giving them middle-class welfare..?

    ..all the while she resolutely ignored those families/children living in real poverty..?

    ..those really ‘struggling’..?

    ..i’m getting deja vu flashbacks here..

    • crocodill 17.1
      31 August 2014 at 3:04 pm

      Yep. It’s getting hard to be around the seemingly nice folks at the Labour stand at the local market without rushing over to… have a “robust discussion”. Do those volunteers know what they’re championing? Dispensing Slow Death, the cowards way. I have to keep telling myself they’re just plain ig’nant and to just ignore them. What makes me maddest is the total betrayal. National don’t care, that was always a given, but Labour lied and betrayed when they knew they were the only alternative. With about 20 days to go, I’ll have to stop going to get my noodles. There were four cops standing ten metres away from them this week. Not such a co-incidence.

  18. Just Julie 18
    31 August 2014 at 9:43 am

    Susan Woods on Q and A. She looks like she has been crying…

  19. gobsmacked 19
    31 August 2014 at 9:54 am

    So, anyone now think Trevor Mallard’s bike race stunt with Cameron Slater was a good idea? Did any sane person think so at the time?

    No, and no.

    • Not a PS Staffer 19.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:07 am

      Mallard can not now get the Speaker role. Nor a sweet ambassadorial role. Poor Trev. Talkback host maybe?

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2
      31 August 2014 at 11:48 am

      Or Clare Curran’s guest post up on Slater’s blog.

    • Hanswurst 19.3
      31 August 2014 at 10:14 pm

      Well, he made Slater look like a numpty. That’s a good idea in my book. Can’t say I’m really too bothered what happens to Mallard.

  20. Adrian 20
    31 August 2014 at 9:57 am

    Has Steven Joyce had a breakdown of some kind? It is not unheard of in the last weeks of a campaign when candidates disappear for a few days for a “rest”.

    • Anne 20.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:38 am

      I think you will find he is staying right out of it, and when all is revealed and his Nat. Party opponents have one by one been exposed… he will reappear with his personal halo glowing like a newly minted golden orb.

      • yeshe 20.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 10:48 am

        a seagull called Rawshark might have some deposits to spoil that freshly minted golden orb … weeks to go …

        • greywarbler 20.1.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 11:02 am

          Too early to Re-Joyce you think?

          • yeshe 20.1.1.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 11:13 am

            😀

            ( and greywarbler, I miss chooky ! Time to come back.)

            • phillip ure 20.1.1.1.1.1
              31 August 2014 at 2:59 pm

              what happened to the chook..?

              ..i am noticing the absence of the ‘bad’…

              ..he was a major contributor to any quality discourse..

              (two comments in a row have ‘worked’..is it fixed..?..)

              • greywarbler …
                31 August 2014 at 3:47 pm

                @phillip ure
                Why don’t you and bad have some dingdongs on whoar eh! Or is bad too erratic to want something that would be beneficial to both of you?

            • greywarbler 20.1.1.1.1.2
              31 August 2014 at 3:43 pm

              Yes Come back Chooky. Just pick out the choice worms to feed us and get us interested and give us the links for further info. Some here seem to read everything but I am pleased to sample some of the linked item as chances are I won’t have seen it otherwise.

              And put your thoughts beside link – they are informative as well.

      • McFlock 20.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 9:59 pm

        the golden orb will contrast nicely with the novopay millstone around his neck

    • disturbed 20.2
      31 August 2014 at 11:18 am

      Joyce,Goebbels?

      We don’t want that liar to come within earshot of the media.

      He is a spin doctor of the highest order, that conspired by using taxpayers money to lie with phoney studies, when he destroyed Gisborne rail.

      He needs to be investigated under Crimes act 116, as Hooten suggested be done to Collins, Kaye and PM.

    • Kiwiri 20.3
      31 August 2014 at 11:22 am

      He is resting in the large intestines of the large bureaucratic whale he created?

  21. Johnny on the spot 21
    31 August 2014 at 10:30 am

    John Key has raised the subject of the flag before, I think it is time again to raise this serious political issue, but this time as to where on our flag we put the Banana!

  22. Richies McClaw 22
    31 August 2014 at 10:32 am

    Ladies and gentlemen, i give you, blind faith:

    “However, with an orchestrated attack on John Key started by Crim Dotcon and with the compliant media, the only way John Key can survive is if people completely ignore the media and trust John Key.”

    (36 upticks at you know where)

  23. tricledrown 23
    31 August 2014 at 10:35 am

    Matthew Hootons face turned bright red when asked if he was involved .

    • Paul 23.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:43 am

      Hope Kathryn Ryan starts asking Hooton a lot tougher questions on 9 to Noon. Otherwise remove him from his privileged position on a public broadcaster to propagate his extreme viewpoints.

      Hope Jim Mora also bothers to ask Jordan Williams and David Farrar a lot of difficult questions on the Panel in return for giving them free publicity to air their noxious views on the world.

      RNZ facing spotlight if this does not happen.

      • disturbed 23.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 11:26 am

        Joyce controls our public broadcasting, as his distant relative William Joyce et al Lord Haw Haw did on NAZI Germany 1942 radio to demoralise the allied forces.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce
        We need a wide ranging immediate enquiry into right wing political use of our public broadcaster during this the most corrupted election in NZ history.

      • weka 23.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 12:09 pm

        RNZ shouldn’t be using Hooton at all. He has a clear conflict of interest (between being involved both professionally and personally, and being asked to comment independently). RNZ also have a clear conflict of interest and their independent commentator spot is now compromised. If they want to talk to him, they should be interviewing him.

        Ditto DPF.

    • yeshe 23.2
      31 August 2014 at 10:50 am

      and twice when asked, he closed his eyes as he said: “No” .. classic ‘tell’ for lying.

      • tricledrown 23.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 11:23 am

        When asked if he had anything to do with dirty trick he kept shifting the subject!
        and face kept getting redder!
        Machiavellian Henchman is in on every level no way he isn’t !
        Saying he got tipped off by low level staffer yeah right!
        Defending Jason Ede yeah right
        Every opportunity Hooton shifted the blame away from Key !
        So Hooton knows how deep Keys is in this !
        Key is in this right up to his eyeballs !
        Even Hooton trying to inoculate Key!
        By predicting Facebook may prove Collins was involved in undermining Feely!
        Hootons blood pressure hit the roof as he spun himself out of I predict collusion with Slater!
        Key is running out of friends rapidly!
        National are in massive trouble the SFO has been compromised over Hotchin and possibly SCF as was alluded to in recent court case saying their is something dodgy about the govts rushing through the govt deposit guarantee scheme costing taxpayers $1.6 billion.
        Because of the size and fraud around SCF ,plus now we know at the same time Collins and Slaters undermining of the SFO happened at the same time the SFO were looking into SCF an open inquiry is necessary!

        • Weepus beard 23.2.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 11:59 am

          Hope something comes out about the lack of oversight of SCF and the rushed payments to SCF investors. What happened to buyer beware?

  24. tricledrown 24
    31 August 2014 at 10:45 am

    Hooton spinning himself into his own web!

  25. Once Was Tim 25
    31 August 2014 at 10:48 am

    Hooton on Q+A (ch501)

    “Well he’s [Slator] threatened to burn my house down….”
    And Slator is deemed to be a fit and proper person to own/use firearms?

    awe but gee wizz, he was only joking eh?

    • vto 25.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:57 am

      Exactly. With the number of threats he has made and allowed to be made on his blog he simply must have any firearms licences revoked.

      It will be very interesting to see where what the fat slug is in another couple of years.

  26. Paul 26
    31 August 2014 at 10:53 am

    Is Brook Sabin just another example of a compromised member of the media?
    Carrack Graham, Cameron Slater, Brook Sabin…all sons of National MPs.
    Mmmmm

  27. CentreOfLeft 27
    31 August 2014 at 10:55 am

    pushes away plate of schadenfreude

    I can’t… I couldn’t possibly eat any more…

    well maybe just a little bite..

    • phillip ure 27.1
      31 August 2014 at 11:03 am

      pace yrslf..!

      ..there is still that assange/greenwald/dotcom spook-dump feast five days out from the election to be savoured..

      ..you wouldn’t want to be already over-fed when that rolls around..

  28. hoom 28
    31 August 2014 at 11:00 am

    An odd & frankly very troubling example of the extremes of Intellectual Property protectionism
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10443229/Stools-don-t-sit-comfortably-together

    The Blue stool got banned from a NZ design competition because it is ‘too similar’ to the older Red/Black ones.

    After reading the first few paragraphs then looking at the pics I was like ‘yeah they are pretty similar’ but then I looked a bit closer and really they are very significantly different.

    The structure & proportions of the blue one are fundamentally completely different to the red/black.
    The blue one has a kinda similar seat with angled back but even that has at least 3 quite significant differences.

    I’d argue that if the blue is infringing the IP of the red/black one, then the latter has at least as much IP conflict with the common wire dish drying rack.

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1
      31 August 2014 at 12:07 pm

      This is a good example of how intellectual property laws are preventing people from being creative and innovative.

  29. yeshe 29
    31 August 2014 at 11:12 am

    Perhaps this unravelling of Collins might also see fresh sunshine in to the messes she made trying to dismantle ACC.

    John Judge might be smiling this morning, along with the Canadian judge and Joe Karam, and who knows how many others she has quietly punched out along her bruising and bullying way.

  30. Tommo 30
    31 August 2014 at 11:26 am

    Mr Key has a lot of questions to answer,clearly he has mismanaged this atrocious greedy government.His ability to hoodwink the MSM has been clearly established and surely it’s time for the MSM to call him and his shonkey team to account.Can’t wait to hear how his poodle Mike Hosking can find more wiggle room.

    • Paul 30.1
      31 August 2014 at 1:55 pm

      Hoskings will construct a sentence which includes the words conspiracy, left wing and john key I love.

    • Hami Shearlie 30.2
      31 August 2014 at 4:21 pm

      I can’t let that comment go by Tommo – Poodles all over the world will be HORRIFIED at being compared to Mike Hosking!! Everyone knows that a poodle would have a much classier haircut than Hosking and a greater amount of class and brains too! Hosking looks much more like Stan Laurel!!

  31. tricledrown 31
    31 August 2014 at 11:28 am

    Henchman Hooton is rapidly becoming a massive liability for National!
    Given his close association with Key Odgers Slater .
    Who he now claims he has virtually no connections with just shows how Team Key can LIE their way through anything!

  32. disturbed 32
    31 August 2014 at 11:37 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce
    See History of Steven Joyce’s relative who conspired against us and joined Germany to spread propaganda, so be warned you don’t want Joyce as Prime Minister, Read the link.,

  33. disturbed 33
    31 August 2014 at 11:46 am

    Don’t want a liar called Steven Joyce anywhere near the prime ministerial job, he is behind the National dirt campaign entirely and needs investigating also under Crimes act 116.

    Joyce used phoney taxpayer studies to kill BERL GDC studies proving Gisborne rail was viable.

    He is like his distant relative William Joyce that switched to NAZI sympathiser by beaming NAZI radio propaganda to Britain and the allies during WW2.

    This one is his copy, a NATIONAL propaganda minister.

  34. Morrissey 34
    31 August 2014 at 11:54 am

    Wallace Chapman’s simpering interview with Lee Child
    Radio NZ National, Sunday 31 August 2014

    A good deal of this morning’s programme has been taken up with analysis of the floundering National Party campaign, which is sinking after one of its dirty bombs backfired on it. But no doubt a lot of listeners would have been tuning in for the interview, after the ten o’clock news, with best-selling thriller writer Lee Child.

    I’ve heard Child talking before, and I wasn’t exactly expecting a liberal or a deep thinker. But I didn’t think he’d be quite as depraved as he turned out to be. And true to form, Wallace Chapman acted like a slavering fanboy instead of a journalist. Following are some of the lowlights….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Born Jim Grant, he became Lee Child, best-selling author. His hero Jack Reacher travels light, armed with a toothbrush, a fierce sense of combat, and dishing rough justice, occasionally cropping up to help solve a crime. He is back, with a new book, called Personal. Reacher is on a mission to hunt down a sniper….

    The first part of the interview concerns Child’s former job, working as a union organizer at Granada Television. According to Jim Grant himself, he was a real tough guy….

    LEE CHILD: In a way we were like Reacher, you know, no holds barred, we did what we needed to do.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Hm hm hm hm hm!

    Later…..

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Where does the character of Jack Reacher come from?
    LEE CHILD: I just closed my eyes and typed the story, and Reacher is what came out. On reflection, clearly, he’s an ancient character. This is the mysterious stranger, the knight errant who shows up in the nick of time, solves the problem and then rides off into the sunset. We’ve seen this story over and over again through the centuries and I think Reacher is just a modern version of one of those guys.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: He’s a Robin Hood character, and obviously he must have some resonance. The people I’ve talked to here in New Zealand admire him. It’s almost like they KNOW Jack Reacher, including the CEO of this company, ha ha ha ha! He’s a —ha ha ha!—huge fan of the Jack Reacher character. People love it! I’m just wondering, is it also a little bit about the man against the world, or the person against the world? The fact that he is beholden to no one, kind of a warrior of justice, standing up for the little person.
    LEE CHILD: I think that’s exactly what it is, and I’ve noticed that too, I mean New Zealand is the absolute world capital of Reacher madness.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: IS it?
    LEE CHILD: Yeah, I have more fans there per head of population than anywhere, I think. And I think that must be because New Zealanders see themselves the same way, you know, rough and tough, wanting to stay out of trouble, but if the chips are down, they will do the right thing. And I think that’s really what resonates around the world. We would all like to do the right thing, we would like to be brave, and of course most of the time we CAN’T be, because you know you see some injustice at work and you can’t really do anything about it otherwise you’ll get fired too. Everybody is a little inhibited, scared here and there, and so to read in a book, this character doing what you’d really like to do yourself I think is inspiring.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Hmmmm. But it’s also that type of character who not only has a sense of fair play but oh my God is he tough! I’m just reading Reacher’s Rules, including: “Use a switchblade to slice the web of a guy’s thumb”… phwoar….
    LEE CHILD: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Ha ha! I mean: “Painful and real disincentive against holding pistols again until they have healed, which could be a long time depending on their approach to nutrition and antisepsis.” [nervously] Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    LEE CHILD: Ha ha ha ha! Well, that’s the thing with Reacher. He’s got a heart of gold, but he’s not a goody-goody. You know, he will get the job done in the most brutal way imaginable. Which I think also resonates with people.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Ha ha ha!
    LEE CHILD: I mean, people are FED UP with all these rules—
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Ha ha!
    LEE CHILD: I mean, if you want to do something, just DO it.
    WALLACE CHAPMAN: [laughing timidly] Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. …. Another thing is the finely honed information that you have in your books. For instance I learned a lot about AK-47s, just a quote here, it’s fascinating: “What does the panicky grunt do under fire? He grabs his rifle and pulls the trigger. Our guns go from Safe to Single Shot to Full Auto, which is nice and linear and logical, but they knew that 99 times in a hundred, their guys would panic and ram the selector all the way home and thereby empty a whole magazine in a single hasty shot. So the AK’s selector goes SAFE then FULL AUTO, then SINGLE SHOT. Not linear, not logical, but certainly practical. …..[Pause to convey wonderment]….Who would have known?

    Later….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Tell me, Lee, why did you choose an American anti-hero?.. You’ve really taken America and American culture to heart, haven’t you!
    LEE CHILD: I like America and I like American people. ….

    A little later….

    WALLACE CHAPMAN: Of all the fans the world over, Bill Clinton is a huge fan!
    LEE CHILD: [reverently] He’s a huge reader of all sorts of books, a man of big appetites…..

    The fan interview continues for another fifteen minutes, but I’ll spare you the rest.

    I just had to send Wallace Chapman the following email…..

    Lee Child’s casual contempt for law and human rights

    Dear Wallace,

    After you quoted a nasty torture scene from one of his books, Lee Child chortled and replied: “Well, that’s the thing with Reacher: he’s got a heart of gold, but he’s no goody-good. He does whatever it takes to get the job done. People are tired of rules.”

    That’s a casual endorsement of violent, lawless thuggery—and it’s especially ironic coming in the middle of a morning dominated by the revelations about the flagrant contempt for rules by our government and its henchmen.

    I was concerned that you did not even so much as demur at what Lee Child said.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

  35. veutoviper 35
    31 August 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Whaledump is back. First twitter post for over a week (no releases as yet) but its funny as are the comments.

    https://twitter.com/whaledump/status/505867707020226560

  36. yeshe 36
    31 August 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Live pregnant cow shipments to China by Fonterra … thousands of the poor beasties going to live in Chinese conditions .. story yesterday overlooked by many I suspect.

    What a foul and awful trade to sell and ship pregnant cows into conditions that are illegal in this country. Bloody bloody awful,

    http://m.tvnz.co.nz/news/business/6067933

    • Belladonna 36.1
      31 August 2014 at 4:26 pm

      Makes me sick to my stomach. Where are the SPCA on this issue? Nowhere to be seen as usual.

    • Clemgeopin 36.2
      31 August 2014 at 6:45 pm

      Another thing that worries me is why the hell are we selling cows to foreign countries, instead of selling the dairy products? Stupid move! it is selling the goose that lays the golden eggs! Just sell the eggs and keep the geese! sell the wool and keep the sheep. Sell the kiwi fruit and keep the trees.

  37. fender 37
    31 August 2014 at 1:19 pm

    Despite there being a downward trend in youth suicide statistics since “anti-smacking” law change in 2007, Conservative Idiot Party candidate lies about increase in youth suicide due to law change

  38. Paul 38
    31 August 2014 at 2:00 pm

    More Dirty Politics from the right…….

    John Ansell confirms his participation in anti-Green’s billboard campaign.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/31/exclusive-deja-vu-all-over-again-john-ansell-confirms-his-participation-in-anti-greens-billboard-campaign/

  39. Morrissey 39
    31 August 2014 at 2:02 pm

    Note to “George”: She’s gone. She’s no longer “in the team”.

    Who said Judith Collins has no friends left? The dear old bewildered regulars over at Blubber Blog are all dying to express their love for her. My favorite is this one by “George” (possibly Cameron Slater himself) which right now has garnered 52 Up votes:

    “Judith we could fill Eden Park 50 times over with people who love you and your dynamic personality and gutsiness. You have taken one for the team. You’re on the bench but still in the squad. You’ll be back. Take a rest and then let us witness you in full flight soon. Thank goodness you’re in the team….”

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/face-day-352/

  40. joe90 40
    31 August 2014 at 2:11 pm

    The effigy burns 4pm our time.

    ustream.tv/burningman

  41. Morrissey 41
    31 August 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Math according to Whaleoil regular: “Judith Collins = Anna Politkovskaya”
    LOON WATCH No. 3: Wild Colonial Man

    For sheer unhinged madness, the place to go is still the hilariously deranged Blubber Blog….

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Judith Collins has done good work-and this man likes nothing better that Women on the front foot for Freedom. Magnificent to watch at work are the Judith Collins of our day. Taking on the Socialist-Communist-Left establishment has its risks: Anna Stepanova Politkovskaya, born 30th August 1958, Moscow, was an outstanding writer, journalist, and lady of compassion and bravery…

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/face-day-352/#comment-1566985584

    More lunacy if you can bear it….
    No. 2 Illegal “settlers” in the Occupied West Bank

    Open mike 15/12/2013


    No. 1 Philippe Karsenty

    Open mike 26/05/2011

  42. NickS 42
    31 August 2014 at 2:42 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10443905/Smacking-bans-suicide-link

    /facepalm

    Urge to repeatedly kick this moron in the nuts is high.

    1) Suicide risk is linked to stress, particularly in low income situations or unemployment (NB: issues with LGBT individuals in pacifica community? Known driver of suicide), so yes, suicide rates would have climbed with rising unemployment etc. More so in maori and pacific island groups due to them being hit my unemployment far more significantly than europeans in NZ.

    2) Other issues “cited” by Saafi are also linked to deprivation and poverty, resulting from stress driving people into short term, high gain activities, while discounting long term costs completely, or are so stressed out they are easily taken advantage of by shitlords.

    3) ” “Once you pass it, children, rather than doing what mum and dad says, they go and commit suicide. It opens up another thing they could do,” Saafi, who holds a doctorate in biomedicine, said.”
    = pure rage inducing stupidity, and for someone holding a university degree, a sign the individual might have the ability to pass, but that sure as hell haven’t learnt anything, making them a learned idiot, aka a morosoph. More so given there is a body of research on this subject said idiot is conveniently ignoring despite having a science degree…

    4) Claiming smacking has been banned is fractally wrong. The changes to the legislation basically made it possible for the police to prosecute cases of violence against children that before were defended by claiming it was “discipline”. And I’m not talking about smacks, more hitting kids hard enough to leave bruises via cords, metal tubes, riding crops, sticks and fists, the sort of stuff that any person with normal empathy responses would look at in horror. Ye olde hand/hairbrush to the butt however is still legal, but hey, why bother with the legal reality when you can spin a disgusting lie instead?

    So yeah, fuck Edward Saafi for this bullshit and fuck the conservatives for thinking this sort of mindless bullshit is even acceptable.

    • crocodill 42.1
      31 August 2014 at 3:23 pm

      What you say is true, from your point of view, and I agree with you. The trouble is that it is also “racist”, in the way that any enforcement of a cultural view onto Tongan matters from outside of any variation of Tongan family culture might be. If he gets any traction for his ideas, it’ll be for reasons unknown to outsiders. Telling people that bashing their kids is wrong, is as good on as many levels as it is wrong. But don’t worry, I’m not calling you racist, that’s why it’s in inverted commas. It might be frustrating, but the world does not revolve around what the government of yesteryear or tomorrow thinks best.

  43. Morrissey 43
    31 August 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Bonus dormitat Homerus
    Taking an uncharacteristically thoughtless Gordon Campbell to task

    The normally excellent Gordon Campbell let himself down earlier this year by foolishly repeating a key trope of the pathetic, confused, failed Gore presidential campaign. He did this while struggling to analyse the potential impact of Kim Dotcom’s new party. I wrote a reply on his blog, but he ignored it.

    It seems to me, however, that the objection I raised still stands—now more than ever…..

    CAMPBELL: “Dotcom has the potential to split the existing anti-Key, centre left vote – in much the same way that Ralph Nader did in the 2000 US election….”

    BREEN: That statement concerns me very much. You seem to be buying into the Democratic Party line of blaming Nader for “spoiling” Al Gore’s chances in 2000. Of course, it was not Ralph Nader who told Gore to pointedly stay away from union meetings, to continue the anti-Cuban rhetoric and to express his endorsement of the regimes in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Israel (amongst others). As Nader himself pointed out, he gave Al Gore a program, and Gore and his ingenious “strategy” team were free to take as much of it into their own campaign as they liked.

    Similarly, the Labour Party could take up Dotcom’s entirely mainstream views-–free and open internet, freedom from government and corporate snooping and censorship—and get all those Dotcom supporters voting Labour. It’s up to Labour, of course—but if they choose to ignore what Dotcom’s saying, they have only themselves to blame.

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/01/16/gordon-campbell-on-dotcom-and-recent-events-at-scoop/

    • phillip ure 43.1
      31 August 2014 at 5:50 pm

      @morrissey..

      ..i wd question yr contention that nader didn’t give the world bush jnr..and the assorted clusterfucks that flowed from that..’serious’ clusterfucks..

      ..the election result numbers blow yr theory out of the water..

      ..tho’ i agree that many of the internet/mana policies are sensible/mainstream/logical..

      ..and yes..labour should have already gone with them..

      ..tho’ i don’t agree with campbells’ contention that int/mana will ‘split’ the left vote..(?!)..

      ..he is talking apples and oranges..’

      ..we have mmp..those votes are not lost to the progressive-camp..

      ..under f.p.p…as in america..nader split the vote..and gave us ‘the shrub’..

      ..the numbers don’t lie..

      • The Al1en 43.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 6:48 pm

        “tho’ i don’t agree with campbells’ contention that int/mana will ‘split’ the left vote..(?!).”

        Agreed, at the moment they don’t poll enough to split a banana.

      • Morrissey 43.1.2
        2 September 2014 at 4:12 pm

        The fault for Gore’s defeat lies squarely with Gore and his fantastically weak-kneed advisers—in particular Warren Christopher, who decided not to demand a recount after the Bush team had stolen thousands of votes in Florida.

        Nader, one of the few genuinely decent and intellectual people to have ever run for the Presidency, ran because Gore had ignored, indeed shunned, the traditional Democratic Party base.

        If Gore and his high-powered advisers had possessed an ounce of common sense, they would have taken many, or indeed all, of Nader’s policies. They chose not to, and even tried to have Nader excluded from the ballot in many states.

        What is it about Gore that leads you to believe he would have presided over a regime significantly better than the Bush regime? Has Obama done that?

        • phillip ure 43.1.2.1
          2 September 2014 at 4:34 pm

          i agree with all you say about nader/gore/failures of democrat party..

          ..and the post-election debacle/clusterfuck in florida..

          ..but the mathematical realities of first past the post electoral systems..

          ..mean that nader running gave us bush jnr..and all that he wrought..

          ..and you claim..that one of the first warners on global warming..

          ..would have been a worse president than one of the worst american presidents ever..?

          .whoar..!

          ..that’s some serious disconnection/revisionism you’ve got going on there..!

  44. Paul 44
    31 August 2014 at 3:18 pm

    Hearing on Dirty Politics to be held 9 days BEFORE the election.
    Dynamite….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316940

  45. Paul 45
    31 August 2014 at 3:24 pm

    All the financier’s men
    Some excerpts…

    “The campaign included attacks on the credibility of the Financial Markets Authority and the Serious Fraud Office, as well as attacks on Hanover critic and then-Shareholder’s Association head Bruce Sheppard. At the time of the campaign, Sheppard was a defendant in a now-settled defamation suit brought by Hotchin.”

    “How much the trio were paid for their role in the campaign is not made clear in the documents, but in a 2012 email to Taxpayers Union head Jordan Williams discussing how much he charged for his services, Slater implied the sums involved would be substantial.”

    “One piece of chaos and mayhem cooked up by Graham, Slater and Odgers involved the latter writing an op-ed for the New Zealand Herald in April 2012.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/10442831/All-the-financiers-men

    • tricledrown 45.1
      31 August 2014 at 3:48 pm

      Given Odgers Jeeves group has connection to huge money laundering and organized crime!
      This whole right wing need investigating!

  46. phillip ure 46
    31 August 2014 at 4:00 pm

    security watchdog is to hold a hearing nine days b4 the election..into the sis-file..

    ..slater has been subpoenaed today – to appear..

    ..and key says he has also been subpoenaed..

  47. TeWhareWhero 47
    31 August 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Whoever writes the new poll on Yahoo!NZ is at it again:

    Today’s question.

    “What do you think?

    Can National win the election given Collins’ resignation?”

    Yes
    73%(1847)

    No
    22%(565)

    I don’t know
    5%(133)

    Related Link
    John Key hoping Dirty Politics saga has ended.

    The results will not alter by more than 1 or 2 % points no matter how many votes are cast.

    It poll HAS to be rigged. Yesterday’s question was: ‘Are prisoners in NZ prisons treated well enough? (OWTTE)

    87% YES.

    Anyone know how to get in touch with a human being involved with Yahoo?

  48. Paul 48
    31 August 2014 at 4:39 pm

    Boag vs Hooton on Radio Live this morning on Mark Sainsbury’s show (Sunday)
    Explosive 10.10 to 10.15 a.m.
    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Audio.aspx
    The National Party descending into Civil War

    So many things mentioned here it’s worth a post on its own.

    • Weepus beard 48.1
      31 August 2014 at 5:34 pm

      That was intense. Hooton is fired up. Boag doesn’t seem to care one jot about the direction Key’s office has taken the country.

      Eagleson seems to have a lot to answer for. A lot.

      Just can’t see how Boag and co can just sweep this under the carpet. Surely the dirty ops culture of this government is unprecedented in New Zealand’s modern history. The strategy of these enablers seems to be, “it’s minor, I don’t care, nobody cares”.

      • phillip ure 48.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 5:56 pm

        that is a must-listen..

        ..and make sure you skip thru the ads..

        ..radio live really soaks their listeners in ads..

        ..(which is why i never listen to it..’till now..)

        ..and hoots doing his nut/losing his rag at boag..

        ..really is a treat for sore ears..

        • Weepus beard 48.1.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 6:50 pm

          I read a comment on another forum from one of these #Teamkey apologists stating that the 95% of kiwis who have no interest in politics will not have the faintest idea what is going on and will not be swayed by this “left wing conspiracy”. It is beltway, that person said.

          That’s the thing, the national party, and their supporters including Boag above have an agenda to not educate the 95% on what happens in parliament. They are most interested in keeping this explosive detail in the beltway thereby ensuring a culture of corruption in the New Zealand government is of no importance to anyone in the public at large.

          • weka 48.1.1.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 10:12 pm

            I don’t believe it and think it is convenient myth-making propaganda for the right (and sometimes the left).

            This from today’s Colmar Brunton suggests quite a high level of understanding the political issues (by high I mean for the general public, not the people that have been living on the internet since DP came out)

            The latest poll also asked if people respondents believe John Key when he says he was not personally informed about the release of SIS information to blogger Cameron Slater.

            While 41% said they do believe him, 44% say they don’t and 14% said they didn’t know.

    • RedBaronCV 48.2
      31 August 2014 at 9:57 pm

      And I agree a post of it’s own. Michelle asking Mathew what he is taking.

      Mathew is going on about the beehive interfering in contracts awarded to him by government through the correct government procurement contract and then the experiences of others in the same area. So Michelle asks him to be more specific and he goes, oh that one was Steven Joyce’s office.

      Coffee everywhere I’m afraid. Just how far does this extend.

      • weka 48.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 10:13 pm

        Yeah, I had to say I enjoyed that bit, and Hooton just dropping Joyce’s name in like that was a delight.

        The rest of the time, it’s starting to make me feel sick.

        • RedBaronCV 48.2.1.1
          1 September 2014 at 8:12 am

          And Duncan Garner being quite happy not to interrupt. Pam was amateur hour compared to this.

  49. TeWhareWhero 49
    31 August 2014 at 4:40 pm

    YAY! I’m no longer being spam-dunked. And for the record I like the look of the new font but find reading large blocks of print a bit hard.

  50. Paul 50
    31 August 2014 at 4:46 pm

    “Prime Minister John Key has confirmed he has received a subpoena to appear before the Inspector General of Security and Intelligence for a closed hearing nine days before the election.”

    And so the focus turns to the PM…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316940

    • yeshe 50.1
      31 August 2014 at 4:50 pm

      Forgive my cynicism, but he is trying to do his laundry and get it dry before the election.

      Behind closed doors, and no word as to whether evidence will be given under oath, or even the terms of it. smells bad to me; and run by a Key appointee. I feel a Tui ad coming on.

      • Tazirev 50.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 5:56 pm

        Definitely smells

      • Ben Adam 50.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 5:59 pm

        Here is David Farrar’s endorsement of the Inspector General.

        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/cheryl_gwyn.

        [The new Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security
        April 24th, 2014 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

        The Herald report:

        Experienced lawyer Cheryl Gwyn will be put in charge of monitoring New Zealand’s spying and intelligence activities, Prime Minister John Key revealed this morning.

        Ms Gwyn will take over the job of Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security to replace Andrew McGechan QC, a former High Court Judge who was appointed on an interim basis in July.

        She is the deputy Solicitor-General at Crown Law, and has previously been a partner at two legal firms, Deputy Secretary for Justice, Acting Solicitor General and chief executive at Crown Law.

        Her office will have a larger, more proactive role as a result of Government Communications Security Bureau reforms which passed into law last year.

        The reforms increased the scope and resourcing of the oversight regime, and widened the pool of candidates for the Inspector-General role beyond former High Court judges.]
        ———
        David Farrar’s comment:

        The combination of Kitteridge becoming SIS Head and Gwyn becoming Inspector-General is a clear sign that the Government is very focused on ensuring the intelligence agencies act within both the letter and spirit of the law, and that there are no more stuff ups such as occurred at the GCSB.

        Retired judges have tended to be not particularly pro-active as Inspector-General. I think Ms Gwyn will be a very pro-active Inspector-General – in line with her new powers.

        • Kiwiri 50.1.2.1
          31 August 2014 at 6:09 pm

          So they are asking Kiwis to believe this secret hearing can do anything real?

          • Colonial Viper 50.1.2.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 6:34 pm

            Secret hearings, secret testimony, secret findings. What could possibly go wrong?

            • Kiwiri 50.1.2.1.1.1
              31 August 2014 at 9:00 pm

              Secret hearings, secret testimony, secret findings – these are exceedingly conducive factors for dirty politics to thrive.

              Secret hearings must be rejected.
              Secret testimony must be rejected.
              Secret findings must be rejected.

              Greatly needed: independence of inquiry, full transparency and public hearings, as well as open disclosure and public scrutiny.

        • yeshe 50.1.2.2
          31 August 2014 at 7:47 pm

          was she CEO or deputy Solicitor General at Crown Law when this happened ? With the greatest respect to Ms Gwyn, there are so many ways she is compromised. We had a post a week or so ago about it, but I can’t find it again. But look at her CV … she has worked in all of the offices of the people involved in this, except PM. I don’t have high hopes, unless she is the bravest and brightest woman possible !

          • Ben Adam 50.1.2.2.1
            31 August 2014 at 8:15 pm

            She was recently appointed by the Prime Minister, is it not? That casts doubts and negates full confidence in this inquiry. I think an independent JUDICIAL inquiry by a high court or supreme court Judge is more appropriate!

            Did she call for this inquiry on her own or did Key himself ask her to hold one? Who is she answerable to? Who can oversee or review the inquiry to make sure this isn’t all just a jack up?

            • Kiwiri 50.1.2.2.1.1
              31 August 2014 at 8:39 pm

              Greatly needed: independence of the inquiry – a panel of people whose ongoing employment would not have been or would not be dependent on or related to the government who has been in deep shit over this.

              A judge, a fiercely intelligent and independent legal and jurist, who has retired (retired, i.e. has security of pension and has had a career record that cannot or will not be under pressure or jeopardised by virtue of involvement in the inquiry) needs to lead this.

              As this is a small country and given our closely interconnected professional, personal and political relationships, it would be very challenging to find such a person who would not be beholden or biased to the government that has been implicated. A legal mind from overseas may be required.

          • ianmac 50.1.2.2.2
            31 August 2014 at 8:18 pm

            YesYeshe. I believe that the poachers are there to turn a blind eye to the other poachers.

      • Kiwiri 50.1.3
        31 August 2014 at 10:45 pm

        no word as to whether evidence will be given under oath

        with the gang involved and what Dirty Politics reveal, would anyone who has been closely following the scandals actually believe those involved would tell the truth and provide full disclosure even if they give their evidence under oath??

        the truth will be in the evidence that can be found and their digital footprints before those get destroyed.

    • ianmac 50.2
      31 August 2014 at 8:25 pm

      No. Key is not down to appear. His office is but so far not including Key. In Paul’s link. Remember Key is Office but not really. Separate from Key. Weird.

  51. joe90 51
    31 August 2014 at 5:04 pm

    The picture grows.

  52. Jenny Kirk 52
    31 August 2014 at 5:43 pm

    I don’t think you’re being cynical, yeshe – I think you’re being realistic. I’m betting this closed doors hearing won’t have an outcome until after the election.

  53. Weepus beard 53
    31 August 2014 at 5:51 pm

    Slater’s colostomy bag appears to have burst. He’s now attacking the prime minister directly in defence of himself and his friend Judith.

  54. phillip ure 54
    31 August 2014 at 6:07 pm

    quote of the day:

    key:..’i’ve got standards to a certain level..’

    ..(i dunno about you..but i guffawed..)

  55. The Al1en 55
    31 August 2014 at 6:17 pm

    Another poll, another non event from mip, languishing on or around 2%.
    What happened to the 10% some were talking up?
    The reality is, that’s a bit sh!t.

    So far it seems 3mil buys 1%. That’s not a good return, even colin has got better from his ‘investment’.
    hone throwing a strop over policy announcements won’t be helping the unified mip message.

    • Weepus beard 55.1
      31 August 2014 at 6:53 pm

      Not sure what your agenda is but there’s not need to attack your stable mates, is there?

      • The Al1en 55.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 7:00 pm

        No agenda other than comment wryly about the non event that is the mip surge as predicted by some, but worry not weepus beard, it’s all fair in love and war and politics.
        There’s plenty of thoroughbred horse bashing going on, so no worries if I have a little poke at the donkey and ass.

        • Weepus beard 55.1.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 7:07 pm

          That’s fine if you want to talk in riddles. Some of the finest literary creative people spoke in riddles.

          While I’m sure I will not be voting IMP party vote, I think they are a very important part of this election. They are energising the youth vote.

          The traditional Mana vote may have suffered recently because Hone Harawira seems to have gone awol after his car accident but I still don’t see the point in attacking them.

          • The Al1en 55.1.1.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 7:14 pm

            I don’t think the numbers support the claim mip are energising the young voters, let alone mobilising them, but always happy to be corrected by data.

            I’m not talking in riddles, but if you need clues, the thoroughbred stable mates are the greens and labour, the donkey and ass, well, you get the idea.

        • disturbed 55.1.1.2
          31 August 2014 at 8:37 pm

          Golden rule don’t believe in polls.

      • weka 55.1.2
        31 August 2014 at 7:51 pm

        “Not sure what your agenda is but there’s not need to attack your stable mates, is there?”

        He hates KDC and by extension the IMP. He seems to think that only Labour and the GP are legitimate left wing parties.

        • The Al1en 55.1.2.1
          31 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

          That’s a couple of outright lies, love, and if I may say, a little beneath you and the quality expected at ts.
          I don’t hate anyone, including kim, and have never said or written that mana isn’t legitimate or of the left.

          Shame on you for resorting to lying to do your bidding, but then that says more about you than I.

          • weka 55.1.2.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 8:22 pm

            Your antipathy towards KDC is evidenced in many comments on ts over much time. You can say it’s not ‘hate’, so let’s call it something else then. Loathe? Detest? Abhor?

            “and have never said or written that mana isn’t legitimate or of the left.”

            Maybe, but you’re comment here supports what I said about who you consider IS the legitimate left,

            http://www.thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-31082014/#comment-877195

            As far as I can see your response to my comment is just semantics.

            • The Al1en 55.1.2.1.1.1
              31 August 2014 at 8:36 pm

              I would happily have settled for ‘hostility, antagonism, animosity, aversion, opposition, enmity and distaste, but hatred oh no, that’s just a dreadfully incorrect assumption on your part. I also suggest loathe, detest and abhor, your second effort, are way of the mark too, so that’s a negative, metaphoric and literal.

              “Maybe”

              Well make quick with the sorry, and we’ll forget about the attempted character assassination, and even the p!ss poor attempt at trying to save face when caught cold.
              That link says nothing about being legitimate or otherwise, just them not being very well supported given the money, the hype and the fanbois and girls who dish it but on here but can’t take a little push back.

              Cry, rant, ignore or scheme harder if you want, but if you tell lies – You lose. The end.

              Oh, and I’m proudly anti semantic. 😉
              What about you?

              • weka …
                31 August 2014 at 8:43 pm

                “He feels hostility towards KDC and by extension the IMP”

                Better?

                “He seems to think that only Labour and the GP are legitimate left wing parties, and Mana would be one too if it wasn’t part of the IMP”

                Better?

                The difference between hate and feeling hostility towards someone obviously makes a difference to you, and fair enough, but the fact that it’s just semantics to me doesn’t make me a liar. My characterisation is still pretty close to reality.

                • The Al1en …
                  31 August 2014 at 8:56 pm

                  Give it some context like given the shoddy shenanigans of kdc and because of hone’s dash for his cash, “he feels aversion and distaste for those involved” is close enough.

                  “He seems to think that Labour and the GP are legitimate left wing parties and would form a better government if Mana and the mip have nothing to do with it”

                  That’s sounds pretty consistent, credible and believable.

                  “My characterisation is still pretty close to reality.”

                  Nope, it’s not. It’s as off as your first smear attempt, just dressed in slightly less contemptuous words.

                  But still, your off target lies and my honest sensibilities aside, that 2%, it’s a shocker given the spend up.

                  • weka …
                    31 August 2014 at 9:08 pm

                    🙄

                    Yeah, nah. Your behaviour isn’t that of someone who feels distaste. It’s the behaviour of someone who feels something much stronger.

                    You really dislike KDC and that affects everything you say about the IMP (or everything I’ve seen you say). And IMP have no left wing legitimacy in your view. Pretty much what I said at the start.

                    Like I said, semantics.

                    • The Al1en …
                      31 August 2014 at 9:18 pm

                      Behavioural analysis on the web to someone on the web you don’t agree with. That’s a shocker, call the Times of London and tell them to hold the front page.

                      I don’t care too much for the semantic argument, sweetheart, mainly ’cause it relies on your interpretation, which may or not be up to scratch, but bottom line, if you can’t post an “I hate” quote, you shouldn’t really be posting “he hates”.

          • greywarbler 55.1.2.1.2
            31 August 2014 at 9:11 pm

            Shame on you The Allen. If you are going to diss the parties in a confused rhetorical way, it isn’t helpful to the close election effort. You appear to be adopting the annoying mosquito persona. Have you a serious one for this important time?

            • The Al1en 55.1.2.1.2.1
              31 August 2014 at 9:21 pm

              You must have missed the other posts slagging the greens and the labour party recently, but that’s okay, maybe you missed them with your eyes open?
              And my comment wasn’t even to balance for redress, it was just a laugh at 3 mil buying not a lot but a few die hards.

              Shame on me, don’t be an arse. That’d never work.

              • CnrJoe …
                1 September 2014 at 6:29 am

                Sweetheart, lovey, are you – A1ien – Odgers?

                • The Al1en …
                  1 September 2014 at 6:40 am

                  No, isn’t she in prison or something?

                  Poor point, piss poorly made – Are you – cnrjoe?
                  But really, let’s not get into criticising peoples language and culture, that smacks of all sorts of wrong, worse than dirty politics.

  56. Tommo 56
    31 August 2014 at 7:34 pm

    National the One Man Band!!! Where is Joyce?And the rest of the National rabble,what are they up to?
    JK is looking more than a little bit CRUSHED.The boat is taking on water,the crew all looking at protecting their backs.
    Are the chickens coming home to roost?

    • disturbed 56.1
      31 August 2014 at 8:20 pm

      Looking for an overseas job?

    • Rodel 56.2
      31 August 2014 at 8:27 pm

      Tommo
      Where is Joyce and the others?
      It’s not about chickens coming home to roost.
      It’s the ships leaving the sinking rat.

    • Clemgeopin 56.3
      31 August 2014 at 8:40 pm

      Joyce is generally immersed in Nova pay ….but now may be indulging in some quiet but serious zen meditation about the state of the unexpectedly opened pandora box of the National party stink affairs.

  57. Te Reo Putake 57
    31 August 2014 at 7:38 pm

    The One News Colmar Brunton poll mentioned above is a shocker for the Nats. It appears to be only the second time they’ve ever reported the Key Government below 50%. At the last election, they overestimated them by 2.5% and we know close the actual result was. Now, at 48%, they’re in deep shit.

    Bonus result: The poll also asked if people believe Key when he says he was not personally informed about the release of SIS info to Slater.

    Only 41% said they do believe him, 44% say they don’t (14% said they didn’t know).

    http://tvnz.co.nz/vote-2014-news/national-slips-in-poll-before-latest-revelations-6068275

    • weka 57.1
      31 August 2014 at 7:56 pm

      NZF cannabilising the left and the right vote. But who will they go with?

      • Te Reo Putake 57.1.1
        31 August 2014 at 8:25 pm

        Just had a skim through NZF’s policy manifesto. Nothing much in there the left would object to, that I can see. Or to put it another way, not much that would be deliverable inside a Tory Government.

        http://nzfirst.org.nz/sites/nzfirst/files/manifesto_2014_final_version_3.pdf

        • weka 57.1.1.1
          31 August 2014 at 8:28 pm

          So you think despite Peters saying they will talk first to the party with the largest vote, it’s not going to work out because of policy differences?

          • blue leopard 57.1.1.1.1
            31 August 2014 at 8:53 pm

            One thing I noted – and it is only the Ipsos data, so not sure whether this is accurate enough to take seriously – is that there has been a huge jump in preference for JK over Cunliffe for those voting NZ First in the last poll

            http://origin-interactives.stuff.co.nz/polling/

            [You have to go to the preferred PM tag and then select NZ First]

            I would guess Peters might take into account that type of information too i.e. whether his supporters are of the right or left persuasion (?)

            Is there anyone else doing these types of breakdowns?

            • weka 57.1.1.1.1.1
              31 August 2014 at 9:14 pm

              no, but I just did the one where the left could govern without Peters 😉

              Well that deteriorated quickly

              A vote for NZF is a vote for letting Peters choose between left and right.

              • blue leopard …
                31 August 2014 at 9:20 pm

                I agree re Peters getting to choose, and what I am implying is that if National voters are leaving National and going to NZ First, then there is more chance he will choose a right wing government.

                • Kiwiri …
                  31 August 2014 at 10:07 pm

                  +1

                  Presently too risky for voters wanting to see a change in government to trust Winston not to go with National.

                • weka …
                  31 August 2014 at 10:08 pm

                  Yes, I understood that, thanks. My position I guess is that it’s irrelevant who Peters might go with (although I agree your analysis is interesting), because he could go either way, so the message really needs to be pushed that voting for him is not a vote for change. I’m not sure if your analysis would help people vote left instead, because to be honest I don’t really understand what goes on in the minds of people that vote NZF 😉

            • Puddleglum 57.1.1.1.1.2
              31 August 2014 at 10:00 pm

              The NZ First sample size is about 35 and, in the previous poll, about 27.

              The shift in Key as preferred PM was from about 14.5% (4 people) in the previous poll to 33.2% (about 11 or 12 people) in the latest Ipsos poll.

              The numbers are too small to draw any conclusions about changes in sentiment but the data points do make for a steep increase in the graph-line between polls.

              • blue leopard …
                31 August 2014 at 10:37 pm

                Ah thanks Puddleglum!

                It is always the same thing, isn’t it; we don’t actually have enough good information to work with 🙁

                Still, I couldn’t help noticing that National had been the second-most preferred PM (Winston the most preferred) and then National and Labour became second equal – yet the last poll National rose to a clear second again. This probably does indicate that people were leaving National to vote for NZ First.

                It gave me the idea that as NZ First rise (if they do) then there may be more likelihood that they go with National – because Winston would have to take the political persuasions of who is supporting him into account. I presume NZ First would have more accurate data on what type of voter is supporting them.

          • Te Reo Putake 57.1.1.1.2
            31 August 2014 at 8:57 pm

            Yep. Plus he can pop in, say g’day, then shoot through. He’s not committed to actually try and do a deal with National. And given the stink around them, plus his ego driven need to be the one who finishes Key, why would he bother?

            Nah, my gut feeling is Deputy PM (the Greens copping that sweet for the wider good). A 3 party coalition, maybe a minority or with C&S from AN Other.

            • The Al1en 57.1.1.1.2.1
              31 August 2014 at 9:01 pm

              In the absence of a straight Labour/Green government, that would be my next preferred choice.

            • weka 57.1.1.1.2.2
              31 August 2014 at 9:12 pm

              “Nah, my gut feeling is Deputy PM (the Greens copping that sweet for the wider good). A 3 party coalition, maybe a minority or with C&S from AN Other.”

              Didn’t follow that. Do you mean your gut feeling is that it’s either L/NZF/GP coalition with Peters as DPM, or L/GP minority govt, or L/GP govt with IMP?

              • Te Reo Putake …
                31 August 2014 at 9:15 pm

                The former (L/NZF/G). Winston has been repeatedly asked if he is ruling the Greens out this time and he refuses to answer. I’m optimistic about what that means.

                • weka …
                  31 August 2014 at 9:20 pm

                  Ok, so this is the hope that Peters chooses Labour, but it’s still hope. It’s not something reliable. Hence, a vote for NZF is not a vote to change the govt. He might, but for anyone wanting a left wing govt, or even wanting to get rid of Key and National, voting for NZF is at best a risk (significant IMO).

                  • Te Reo Putake …
                    31 August 2014 at 9:31 pm

                    Dead right! I’m not suggesting anybody vote for NZF, but the last time Winston got to choose, he backed Labour. He could have gone with Brash.

                    • weka …
                      31 August 2014 at 9:41 pm

                      And vice versa at previous elections. I’m not saying that Peters will choose National. I’m saying that none of us know who he will choose, and our personal feelings aside about which is most likely, there is no evidence to support knowing anything other than that he is historically unpredictable.

                      This is why IMO the left outside of Labour and the GP, should be pushing hard the message that a vote for Peters is not a vote for a change in govt (Peters could for instance argue easily that National under a different PM is a different govt). Too many people who want change seem to think NZF is a viable vote for the left.

                    • Kiwiri …
                      31 August 2014 at 9:48 pm

                      Put it this way, if Winston gets numbers that, in the circumstances, inclines him towards National Party, or would make it a bit challenging for him to go with Labour (or would not give him enough ‘incentives’ to do so), Winston will surely of course go with National.

                      Duh.

                    • weka …
                      31 August 2014 at 9:52 pm

                      which circumstances?

            • Kiwiri 57.1.1.1.2.3
              31 August 2014 at 9:31 pm

              There is a real opportunity coming up, almost 20 years since we adopted proportional representation, to evolve to Cabinet arrangements that would more truly reflect the MMP system that we operate and are continuing to develop.

              It is for Labour, Greens, NZ First and IMP, collectively speaking, to encourage that to happen. Their leaders, members, and the wider public – all have the responsibility to foster this.

              • weka …
                31 August 2014 at 9:43 pm

                I completely agree with this sentiment. The problem is that Peters doesn’t believe in it. So how would that work?

                • Kiwiri …
                  31 August 2014 at 9:53 pm

                  He has shown from time to time that he doesn’t believe in it. But he cannot repudiate his participation in the MMP system. If he does, then the other parties must go forward together and Peters should be left to his own ‘special speak’ and be left to play his kingmaker, tail-waving-the-dog routine.

                  • weka …
                    31 August 2014 at 10:05 pm

                    Peters appears to believe that because he sits in the middle, he can reject the votes for people on the edges. That’s not what MMP should be about, but the system does allow that. If the threshhold lowers, it might take some of that power away from him, but at the moment, he gets to be kingmaker and respresentative democracy be damned. He thinks the mainstream should rule and that he gets to choose which side of the mainstream.

    • Puddleglum 57.2
      31 August 2014 at 9:00 pm

      The poll was conducted from 23-27 August (27th was last Wednesday).

      That means it did not include the debate or, of course, this weekend’s events. It was the period when the campaign was being claimed to be ‘getting back on track’ for National after their campaign launch on 24 August.

      All in all, one of the better periods for National over the last few weeks.

      The ‘median day’ was Monday (i.e., that’s when 50% of the sample was reached).

      843 gave a party vote preference (c.f., 824 in last poll). Undecideds and refusers down to 12% (from 15%).

      • weka 57.2.1
        31 August 2014 at 9:22 pm

        Pg, do you know if 12% is high or low compared to this time usually before an election?

      • Tom Jackson 57.2.2
        31 August 2014 at 11:15 pm

        That looks very bad for National. Worse is that they have another two weeks and six days of what will be relentlessly negative publicity. I noticed that TV3 news is now openly using the term “corruption”, and the guilty parties have all turned on each other today.

        Wonder what Ede will say, if he’s not already wearing a concrete overcoat.

      • Andrew 57.2.3
        1 September 2014 at 6:32 am

        843 gave a party vote preference and were likely to vote.

  58. Ffloyd 58
    31 August 2014 at 8:56 pm

    For some time now I have been puzzled as to who Judith Collins reminds me of , especially when she puts on that rictus grin. So I have just googled Chucky, thinking it was him , and yes there is a resemblance but I was gobsmacked at the images of Bride of Chucky. An absolute dead spit of Judith! Hairstyle, eyebrows, eye makeup, EVERYTHING! So spooky.

  59. disturbed 59
    31 August 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Ms Gwyn Solicitor General to hold closed hearing with PM and staffers?
    If it smells like a rat and acts like a rat, – it is a rat.

    Government investigating Government well we all know the outcome right?

    Well we know a Key jack up coming now with a closed hearing!

    Another Key lie.

    Remember he said;

    “we will run an open, transparent Government”

    We have been duped unless opposition files there own legal charges, to have a real hearing as we saw Nixon go through or just call this another banana republic.

  60. Tigger 60
    31 August 2014 at 9:28 pm

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10443712/Judith-Collins-inquiry-details-due-Monday

    Key: “It’s about accountability. I think if I’d said the Justice Minister’s resigned but I’m not going to give you the information why, we would have spent lots and lots of days talking about the rational for that. It’s much better to put it in the public domain, I’m confident we’ve taken the right steps,”

    So why did Richard Worth lose his job again? Oh that’s right, we weren’t allowed to know.

  61. ianmac 61
    31 August 2014 at 9:53 pm

    Does Mr Key have to front up for questioning?
    No according to the Herald
    ” She confirmed a letter was received in the prime minister’s office on Friday August 29.

    “It advised the Prime Minister of the Inspector-General’s intention to interview a number of staff in connection with her inquiry into the release of information by the NZSIS to Cameron Slater.

    “There was no indication in the letter that the Prime Minister would be called personally and the Prime Minister’s office is not aware that would be the case. In terms of Prime Minister’s office staff, no date was given in the letter for the interviews to take place.”

    Senior staff in Key’s office are expected to be called including his chief of staff Wayne Eagleson and former aide Jason Ede. ”
    Last updated 17:55
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10444294/PM-may-not-have-to-front-at-hearing

    • yeshe 61.1
      31 August 2014 at 10:46 pm

      Seriously folks .. why would we expect anything to be different from Key ?? He is a joke isn’t he ? smile and wave, smile and wave, oh look, over there …..

      Please, let this change for the sake of dear NZ.

      He is making Nixon look good and us out to be fools.

  62. Tony 62
    1 September 2014 at 5:41 am

    Key has to go! His whole department is fatally compromised by the Dirty Politics book.
    It reminds me of the final act of Der Rosenkavalier, when Baron Von Ochs has been caught at his dirty intentions and the Marshallin says:

    MARSCHALLIN: Leave well alone, and ere I count to three, withdraw!

    (The Baron turns round and stares at her.)

    BARON: What mean you?

    MARSCHALLIN: (gaily, sure of victory): Think of your dignity and take your leave.

    BARON von OCHS How?

    MARSCHALLIN: If you would still preserve your name
    As gentleman, make virtue of necessity.

    Key should take her advice!

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