Our polytechnics are under threat

20 comments on “Our polytechnics are under threat ”

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1. karol 1

   5 December 2012 at 11:45 am

   Excellent post, worry developments, Sandra.

   Also, I was looking this morning at the section of the CTU’s website on the TPPA.  In a power point slideshow linked there, on the slide headed “Services”, they give this warning:

   Less control of private education providers

   I am cynical, given the NZ government’s record shown on the post above, that the government will support public education in the TPP negotiations.
    
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     5 December 2012 at 5:03 pm

     The TPP is probably why this government is bringing in Charter Schools.
2. Don Mackereth 2

   5 December 2012 at 2:33 pm

   Education should not be made financially competitive, we lecturers should train our students to become financially competitive.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     5 December 2012 at 5:04 pm

     Nope, should be teaching people to cooperate as it’s far more efficient and innovative.
3. Iain 3

   5 December 2012 at 3:50 pm

   Public providers have to demonstrate that they have systems and facilities in place to support students’ learning. These include extensive libraries, student support services, canteens, quality management systems to meet government requirements. With these constraints they can never equal the cut-price delivery offered by some PTE’s.
4. Tony Obbeek 4

   5 December 2012 at 4:04 pm

   In Labours last term of governance, they were making great inroads into funding and supporting Polytechnics and ITP’s. This massive drive was brought about because we were going down the same road and on the same journey that we are once again about to embark on where trades training and trades people hold no value in the eye’s of National governments.
   This country was reaching crisis point with a huge drop in highly skilled / trained trades people, with older trades people retiring, dieing or just leaving, there wasn’t enough push to bring those numbers back up until labour took hold and acted on this.
   These politicians seriously need a reality check, education and health systems should never be stripped down like this, they are two fundimental publicly funded systems that keep our country solid and “moving forward”
   If National out source this training to private providers and at vastly reduced funding this country WILL suffer……who wants to work so hard at teaching, using all our skills and training for pathetic salary’s and little or no infrastructure.
   END.
5. Draco T Bastard 5

   5 December 2012 at 4:53 pm

   Imagine if the new entrants’ class at your local school was closed but, don’t worry, it has been tendered out to a private company down the road that might or might not still be operating the year after next. We wouldn’t treat the education of our five-year-olds like that and we shouldn’t treat the education of our school leavers and adult learners who most need new opportunities like that either.

   This.

   Contracting out to private providers is going to introduce chaos into the learning environment and make it far less effective.
6. feijoa 6

   5 December 2012 at 5:42 pm

   This is all part of selling NZ, piece by piece. Stephen Joyce is a hollow man. Where are our opposition spokepeople??? Has Nanaia said ANYTHING about this?
   I think alot of the changes for polytechs have flown under peoples radar on this. Another job for Campbell Live. Somehow got to get the message out there to voters why this is so bad
   • karol 6.1

     5 December 2012 at 5:53 pm

     Not on the Foundation courses so much, but it looks like Grant Robertson is the Tertiary spokesperson and has issued a statement today on cuts to tertiary education.  And a couple of days ago on privatisation and foundation courses.
7. lenore 7

   5 December 2012 at 7:01 pm

   I have been involved with a few ptes. Many staff leave because the owners are profit driven and don’t have the integral values around learning and development. Not a surprise that Joyce would be giving more money to the private sector. Just want to say though many of the staff are fantastic – get crap money and work their butts off because of their committtment to their learners. Would love to see community driven initiatives where the community gets together – uses an empty (at night) primary or secondary school and sets up classes and says to hell with central government and we are not going to use the profit gathering institutions.
8. KJT 8

   6 December 2012 at 7:18 am

   Polytechnics have already been gutted, with the bums on seats approach and being downgraded to mere Universities, where the students learn few skills, 30 000 new words and an arrogant attitude.

   This is next, but New Zealand has always, like UK, had this stupid idea that trades are inferior and should be paid a lot less than academic skills. Hence the skills side of technology in schools being dumbed down.

   Well. It is biting in the bum now, because all the young tradespeople are leaving to where they are valued, the bums on seats approach, keeping people in the classroom to maximize revenue, has meant tradespeople are not learning practical skills and the change in school technology to a written academic subject, to suit university requirements, further devalues and loses skills.
9. FA 9

   6 December 2012 at 10:21 am

   Quality teaching and teacher commitments to learner success is not an issue here, I am perplexed at the naivity of public is better then private for the betterment and security of NZ education. We only need to look at the pre and post secondary education performance by the private colleges and institutes to demonstrate the high achievement rates for learners.

   For decades SAC 1&2 provision has not been available to the PTE sector and next year provision is an opportunity for the wider sector to engage in this foundation level education. I am sure that PTE’s would love to employ some of the staff that will be available with their respective subject expertise. With TROQ underway NZQA is encouraging providers to collaborate and share courses and accreditation.

   “To cherish traditions,old buildings,ancient cultures and graceful lifestyle is a worthy thing- but in the world of technology to cling to outmoded methods to manufacture, old product lines, old markets or old attitudes amongst management and workers is a prescription for suicide” Maddock
   • fatty 9.1

     6 December 2012 at 2:11 pm

     We only need to look at the pre and post secondary education performance by the private colleges and institutes to demonstrate the high achievement rates for learners.

     do you have some data to share?
     • Crimson Nile 9.1.1

       6 December 2012 at 2:25 pm

       FA may simply mean that children in private schooling (who come from generally better and more secure socioeconomic backgrounds), achieve better academically.
   • tracey 9.2

     6 December 2012 at 2:35 pm

     My understanding is that private schools do not need to publish the data relating to their students success or failure in, for example, cambridge exams. Some schools might find themselves sued under the Fair Trading Act if they did 😉
   • Sandra Grey 9.3

     6 December 2012 at 3:00 pm

     In fact many private schools succeed because they take only the very best students, not because their provision of education is of a higher standard than public providers. One of my concerns about PTEs is that students who are struggling or high risk because of their lack of educational achievement in the past will not be enrolled in classes. They will not be enrolled because the PTEs will need to have high completion rates.
     • Dissatisfied Former Whitireia Student 9.3.1

       23 December 2012 at 9:40 pm

       In fact, the polytechnic practice of accepting any random bonehead who comes through the door degrades the quality for the decent students. Add on to that the practice of simply tolerating any disruptive, abusive behaviour in the classroom.

       An excellent example is Whitireia Community Polytechnic, where [deleted] lies and claims that they have intake standards for foundation courses, when they actually do not.

       Other problems at Whitireia include mind-blowing levels of bad behaviour, with zero classroom discipline. That includes students YELLING at the top of their lungs about totally irrelevant things, sometimes for two solid hours, totally interfering with the classes for which others are paying. It also includes open sexual harassment, including offensive demands for physical contact, and even actual groping. It also includes open bullying by the bad students against the good ones.

       And it isn’t just the students. [deleted] will actually tell an intelligent, hard-working student to be personal friends with a boneheaded harasser. And she will order intelligent, hard-working students to deliberately dumb down (her actual words) to avoid threatening the self-esteem of the bullies.

       And Whitireia Community Polytechnic ensures those high completion rates by artificially passing students, even when they can not, or simply refuse, to meet the requirements of assessments.

       Last year, a student named [deleted] argued with a tutor until he was allowed to leave the room in the middle of a test, wander off unescorted, and returned later with a cup of coffee… Then sat back down and resumed the test.

       Any student who dares to even question Whitireia’s quality or standards will be bullied by the staff, and treated like some sort of uncooperative child.

       [Names deleted – please don’t name individuals. r0b]
10. tracey 10

    6 December 2012 at 2:38 pm

    UNITEC, for example, has a requirement built into its constitution/ founding documents that it cannot make a loss. Accordingly it doesnt. On the other hand the 80’s and 90s and early 2000’s were periods when universities (particularly auckland and Otago) ran up enormous debt and then sought (and obtained) bailouts from govt.

    For a right-wing government which believes profit motive is everything, you;d think they would be championing this particular ploytechnic as one to follow, an example. But they don’t.

Links to post

1. Unrequited epistles to the minister | TEU - Tertiary Education Union: posted on 6 December 2012 at 9:35 am
2. The foundation studies (Level 1-2) funding experiment | TEU - Tertiary Education Union: posted on 14 December 2012 at 9:23 pm

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