Panama Papers fallout – trusts leaving NZ

118 comments on “Panama Papers fallout – trusts leaving NZ ”

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1. Blade 1

   13 June 2017 at 10:41 am

   ”Shaw said: “Holding foreign trusts to higher disclosure requirements will improve our international reputation, which is worth way more to us than the small industry that serviced them here in New Zealand.”

   Ignorance is bliss. People wanting to hide wealth usually set up other business deals here. They buy homes and invest. New Zealand is tops ( or was) among the privacy and ghost providing services. That reputation is on its way to being ruined.

   And what is the major attraction the gives us this 5 star rating? Its not trusts, it’s a ” stable political environment”
   • Barfly 1.1

     13 June 2017 at 10:54 am

     You are arguing for New Zealand to be more corrupt , to assist International Money Laundering and tax theft.

     No surprise you support the current regime.
     • Blade 1.1.1

       13 June 2017 at 11:13 am

       ”You are arguing for New Zealand to be more corrupt , to assist International Money Laundering and tax theft.”

       1- That’s a perception depending on your point of view.

       2- Tax theft? Tax is theft. What about the Kiwi black market and all those socialist tradies and a solid core of beanies rorting the system? What’s the difference? Only the scale.

       No surprises you hold the misconceptions that you do.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1

         13 June 2017 at 11:21 am

         Tax is not theft. Yes yes, you rote-learned something different, like all the other unoriginal unthinkers before you.

         Are you going to start thinking for yourself any time soon?

         Tax is not theft. The fact that you parrot the myth says something about you and nothing whatsoever about tax.
         • Blade 1.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2017 at 11:54 am

           Rote learnt? Of course tax isn’t theft, we hand it over voluntarily and say ” Thank you very much.” Of course it would follow then that no one would be interested in tax cuts, or the concept of tax cuts to stimulate the economy. And politicians wouldn’t talk of giving voters back some of their own money.

           Please change the record chap and actually say something.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2017 at 12:49 pm

             Listen you low rent dipshit, the stuck record is the one playing wingnut dogma. All “your” “opinions” have been regurgitated in this very forum by predecessors who had no more substantive justification for them than you do.

             Tax is payment for goods and services. Goods and services that enable your entire life-style, you snivelling unoriginal graceless wretch.
             • Blade …

               13 June 2017 at 2:01 pm

               Listen you low rent dipshit, the stuck record is the one playing wingnut dogma.

               Moderator??

               “your” “opinions” have been regurgitated in this very forum by predecessors who had no more substantive justification for them than you do.

               What predecessors? Name them. Even Act believes in tax.

               ”Tax is payment for goods and services. Goods and services that enable your entire life-style, you snivelling unoriginal graceless wretch.”

               You sound like a fanatic who has lost his rag. More abuse than rational comment.

               [lprent: Stop whining and actually read the policy unlike the usual gutless troll unable to defend their stupidly thoughtless bigotry. You might come to figure out what this site is for. I don’t maintain it so you can prance around here holding up your 2 inches and saying it is bigger (much bigger) then Trumpies – which is what you often sound like to me.

               “We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views.”

               This means that you can generally say what your ideas are and other people can describe what they think of you and your ‘ideas’. What removes that protection from your critics is if they get boring to moderators, repetitive, illegal, defamatory (and I mean real NZ defamation law not the fantasy that many seem to have from TV shows) or disruptive. Same applies to you of course. Plus of course….

               “What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others.”

               And that means that if OAB hadn’t pointed out with painful clarity exactly why they thought your ideas completely sucked and why, then one or another moderator would have done something about it at some point – when they got irritated and abruptly decided to notice an infraction. It becomes random chance if they also decide to become a hanging judge or nice and pleasant like I am today explaining this to you. That is also why you’ll find few actually calling for a moderator to notice them. It tends to be a risky proposition.

               I’d point out that OAB has had a long time to figure out exactly where the risk horizons are – but that comment wasn’t one of them. Sometimes he lawyers himself out for a holiday (the moderators holiday I mean) and I see that RedLogix was growling at him earlier.

               Now could you quit wasting my time with childish whining and read the policy. This isn’t a request. ]
               • Robert Guyton …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:11 pm

                 Doing a word count, OAB’s comments are weighted far more heavily toward rational comment than abuse.
                 Just sayin’.
                 Have you responded to the information you requested of me in yesterday’s Open Mike yet, Blade?
                 Again, just askin’
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

                   ”Doing a word count, OAB’s comments are weighted far more heavily toward rational comment than abuse.”

                   Well, that’s an interesting comment for someone who professes to be a teacher. On one hand, only a teacher would do a word count. On the other, coming to a conclusion that
                   OAB offers more ration comments than me is factually wrong.

                   I guess you are a New Zealand teacher.

                   ”Have you responded to the information you requested of me in yesterday’s Open Mike yet, Blade.”

                   No, I haven’t. I don’t dwell on blogs. I asked a simple question. I got no reply to that question( at the time), so moved on.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2017 at 2:35 pm

                     Blade said:
                     ” I don’t dwell on blogs. I asked a simple question. I got no reply to that question( at the time), so moved on.”

                     Earlier however, Blade said:
                     “I am still waiting on Robert Guyton to tell me the years he was at teachers college…”

                     Which seems contradictory. However, in the spirit of bon homie, I’ll paste my response to Blade’s (insistent) questioning here, to make it easier for him to respond, something I’m hoping he will do, given the effort I put in to fulfilling his request for personal information.

                     “Jeepers, Blade, I had no idea you were suspended with anticipation of my personal details. Let’s see, I was at Dunedin Teachers College for 2 years, some 33 years ago, or there abouts. I taught for 15 years at a primary school, then several more at high school, including filling the role of Head of Department, Maori studies, where I taught te reo and other associated things Maori. Thank goodness for my knowledge of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, eh taku hoa! I’ve also taught in a museum classroom, where I introduced children to the marvels of the tuatara, carefully handling those ancient sphenodons so as not to hurt them, the children or myself. I’ve done tutoring for university level learners and worked alongside of Steiner trained early childhood teachers, as well as several other teaching positions that I’ll not mention for the sake of brevity. Hope that satisfies your seemingly insatiable curiosity – that’s something I like in a learner, curiosity, I have to say.”
                     (apologies to the mods for off-topic comment, but couldn’t think of any other way to service Blade’s request.)

                     [lprent: Fine by me. He does seem to me to be a useless lazy narcissistic dickhead who is pretty lousy at being able to argue. But I have seen others start worse and become useful community dissenters. ]
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2017 at 3:08 pm

                   A little too much semantics to start your impressive resume, Robert. But very impressive all the same. Just a few questions.

                   When you applied for the Head of Department, Maori studies, how did you answer when they asked you what you thought of Pakeha, and the Treaty?

                   You say you have worked along side Steiner trained early childhood teachers.

                   That is very interesting. Could you just reconfirm that and tell me how that came about? That is impressive. You have nearly covered all bases in education.

                   Could you provide your teacher registration number? I personally can’t check it, but I know someone who can. It will in no way breach your privacy. It’s just a number. No offence, but I take what I’m told on blogs with a grain of salt.

                   Once again, very impressive.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:31 pm

                     What you’re told on blogs, you take with a grain of salt, Blade?
                     Then it would be pointless saying anything to you, wouldn’t it.
                     Thank you for your forthright admission of untrustworthiness.
                     I almost regret having treated your request as though it was genuine, but it was worth being slighted by you, in order to learn the need to avoid taking notice of you in the future.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:46 pm

                     Oh, it was very genuine. Knowing the years you taught means I know you were in the midst of huge changes in education. Therefore, your experiences and beliefs are way different to mine. And we cannot have a balanced debate on that because of our different understandings.

                     People have tried to dupe me twice over claimed education qualifications. Each time a check proved them liars. It seems Lefties love playing these little games. Hence my reticence.

                     Again, your rego number would solve everything. I would be told nothing but a confirmation of your claimed job stats.
                     Then you would have my respect- 100 %.

                     I’m sorry its come to this, but it isn’t of my making.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:49 pm

                     “I’m sorry its come to this, but it isn’t of my making.”

                     Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

                     Ah, Blade; a comedian!
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:08 pm

                     “Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

                     Ah, Blade; a comedian!”

                     I rest my case, Robert. Instead of posting that. You could have answered my questions and shown me up. I can only assume you know to do so would have found you out.

                     I may been wrong, but its the only conclusion I can come to.

                     Most reasonable people would understand, and while they may not give me their rego number they would have answered my questions.

                     That’s a fail, Robert.
                   • In Vino …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:33 pm

                     Troll-games by Blade – arrogant demands; implicit accusations of lying when politely answered, followed by further arrogant demands with nothing offered in return.. A cynically rude ratbag.
               • Blade …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:30 pm

                 Mat Hooten? Didn’t he get the chop, OAB? Don’t know why. He gives National a hard time. Look, you may be right. I may be low rent, but it’s only to help you understand issues in a ‘ simplified form.”
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   13 June 2017 at 2:38 pm

                   *Hooton.

                   And a whole host of others, Borglike, mumbling and shuffling, their brains eaten by zombie rhetoric. Unoriginal, unsubstantiated, tiresome, puerile cak.

                   We need better wingnuts.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:12 pm

                     Thanks for that correction, OAB.

                     So we have Hooton. At least that’s someone.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:51 pm

                     Knock yourself out, dickhead.
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:33 pm

                 What predecessors? Name them.

                 You want a list of the pseudonyms of right wing nut jobs who’ve stated that “tax is theft” ad nauseam in this forum? Even had you used the magic word I’d still be laughing at you.
               • Blade …

                 13 June 2017 at 5:21 pm

                 OK, Iprent. We seem to have a policy at odds with how I understand it.

                 [lprent: Fine by me. He does seem to me to be a useless lazy narcissistic dickhead who is pretty lousy at being able to argue. But I have seen others start worse and become useful community dissenters. ]

                 So I will leave. Educate myself. And hopefully come back reformed if allowed. Thanks for allowing me this time.
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   13 June 2017 at 7:09 pm

                   Good luck, Blade, we wish you well. I hope you return a useful, able arguer. We yearn for such trolls.
           • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.1.2

             13 June 2017 at 1:36 pm

             So public health and education should be funded from the magic money Tree? And Police?
             • Blade …

               13 June 2017 at 1:55 pm

               Police and armed forces are the responsibility of the state. While i believe they could be privately funded ( private contractors) I doubt anyone would mind paying a minimal tax given a collective agreement.

               Education and health? Privatise it. The sooner the better re education. Socialists worried about price could band together and create their own schemes.
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:35 pm

                 Look on the bright side: there’s nothing wrong with Blade’s ability to remember the litany.
               • KJT …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:39 pm

                 Funny how those who want to dismantle the State, still want us to pay for police and armed forces, to protect their ill gotten gains.

                 Why not private security to go with privatised education, courts and infrastructure?
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2017 at 2:43 pm

                   ”Funny how those who want to dismantle the State, still want us to pay for police and armed forces.”

                   Where did I say that? Demand that? Expect that?
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   13 June 2017 at 2:44 pm

                   As someone quoted recently:

                   ‘Definition of a Libertarian: an anarchist who wants police protection from their slaves’.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:15 pm

                     Definition of Capitalism- the Scandinavian states.

                     What’s Libertarianism got to do with it?
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:56 pm

                     You mean the ones where the Government is 60% of GDP?

                     More socialist than capitalist.
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:25 pm

                     “Taxation is theft” is a Libertarian mantra.

                     Which Blade is blindly repeating.

                     If they were consistent, they would then reject using or profiting from anything provided by taxation.

                     Cognitive dissonance, however, is a common RWNJ failing.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:13 pm

                     Hey Kiddo.

                     ”You mean the ones where the Government is 60% of GDP?”

                     Guess how that happened? Those Scandinavian countries used Capitalism to generate income. Their business concessions leave America for dead. They may practice socialism, but they rely on Capitalism…look it up.
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:27 pm

                     Their tax payer subsidies for business. I thought “taxation was theft”?
                   • Carolyn_nth …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:33 pm

                     It’s also theft when people are underpaid for their labour, while the top earners get paid way more than their labour value: theft of time, labour, monetary earnings, and well-being.
               • Matthew Whitehead …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:53 pm

                 We did band together. We elected governments that decided to pay for it with tax, and now you have to pay, too, because we all got together and decided as a country, and none of your lot have changed our minds. Stop crying that “socialism” (by which you apparently mean “any trace of social democracy”) has won and get on with your life.
               • adam …

                 13 June 2017 at 3:13 pm

                 Two things Blade, as you seem to know very little history. A standing army is a modern invention, and historically a army was paid for by a sovereign, and in times of war taxes would be levered.

                 As for police, again a modern invention, you might want to look up the pinkertons and see why people are dubious about private police.

                 As for private military contractors, if blackwater and tigerswan are the models you like to see as private contractors, they are just militias (with all the nightmares that will bring). Or what about Condottieri, you want to promote this?
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2017 at 3:29 pm

                   ”Two things Blade, as you seem to know very little history. A standing army is a modern invention, and historically a army was paid for by a sovereign, and in times of war taxes would be levered. ”

                   True, but this is 2017. Are you saying history has to repeat?

                   Seems like you are repairing to history to confirm why it can’t be done. That’s why you don’t find many Lefty entrepreneurs.

                   No doubt Black water was/is an abject failure.
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:59 pm

                     I am a lefty entrepreneur.

                     In fact entrepreneurs as a group seem to tend left wing.

                     It is those who got their wealth through luck, that want to pull up the ladder.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:11 pm

                     I’m picking Blade for not an entrepreneur, considering how utterly unoriginal every single thing they say is.
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:29 pm

                     You usually find that right wing trolls, that blindly repeat the utterances of their hero’s, the rich, are normally wannabees, fondly imagining they will be rich, one day. If only we recognised their brilliance.

                     Modern day Ayn Rand’s, who couldn’t survive without socialists feeding them.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:44 pm

                     ”I am a lefty entrepreneur.”

                     No you aren’t. Entrepreneurs don’t waste time on blogs.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:49 pm

                     Seems Lefties have run out of arguments.

                     We are down to this:

                     ”You usually find that right wing trolls, that blindly repeat the utterances of their hero’s, the rich, are normally wannabees, fondly imagining they will be rich, one day. If only we recognised their brilliance.”

                     Apparently I repeat the utterances of some supposed heroes.

                     Repeated utterances… yes, I know what they mean.
                   • adam …

                     13 June 2017 at 5:23 pm

                     Oh dear why come onto a political blog when you can’t even keep up with events of the day?

                     Do you actually talk to any libertarians, real ones, who actually do things and have their finger on the pulse? I’m guessing not. Because you would have released I was not talking ancient history.

                     Again, get up to date. This is 2017, as you said, but you seem to be caught in some Anne Wandy time loop.
           • lloyd 1.1.1.1.1.3

             13 June 2017 at 11:51 pm

             tax is another form of insurance. If enough of the economy dodges tax then the things you can’t afford yourself (e.g. a well set up hospital with trained, dedicated staff, or a police force with enough staff to investigate a burglary in your home) won’t be there when you need them. Even Russian oligarchs need these things, so they rip off Russia and then go and live in semi-socialist countries in the west that can still provide these services.
             Lack of taxes is theft. New Zealanders don’t pay high taxes compared to most OECD nations.
             Similarly rates pay for things individuals can’t afford like roads and parks. Aucklanders pay much less in rates than other parts of NZ.
             An honest politician might gain a lot of respect (like Jeremy Corbyn) if he or she said she was going to increase rates or taxes for the good of all. And would definitely gain respect and votes if they said they would ensure the taxes were progressive and came mainly from the most wealthy in our society – the people who can afford to pay those taxes and rates.
         • adam 1.1.1.1.2

           13 June 2017 at 3:15 pm

           They stole our taxes One Anonymous Bloke, and the national party let them.
       • Barfly 1.1.1.2

         13 June 2017 at 11:24 am

         “Tax is theft” …just wow ……Soo you are a believer of the fantasy world of no tax is good.

         For you I presume no public health care system, no old age pensions, privatised police, toll roads only, no footpaths (or are they user pays) No government no defence or civil emergency forces……hang on this could go on for a very long while.

         You sound like some rich self entitled idiot who has no comprehension that his wealth has been derived from a society that requires taxation to function…philosophically I guess you would be in favor of an Ethiopian style “no tax” government.

         Your selfishness and short sightedness are obvious in their abundance.
         • Blade 1.1.1.2.1

           13 June 2017 at 11:59 am

           ”For you I presume no public health care system, no old age pensions, privatised police, toll roads only, no footpaths (or are they user pays) No government no defence or civil emergency forces……hang on this could go on for a very long while.”

           Indeed it could. But we have never had a choice. The government steals our money and says ” Look what you get in return.” And its true, we get something in return. But as this blog bears testament to, and the black market as well, most aren’t happy with this theft because they aren’t getting what they want.
           • Barfly 1.1.1.2.1.1

             13 June 2017 at 2:27 pm

             You sound like some rich self entitled idiot who has no comprehension that his wealth has been derived from a society that requires taxation to function…philosophically I guess you would be in favor of an Ethiopian style “no tax” government.

             Your selfishness and short sightedness are obvious in their abundance.

             You should be on your knees thanking a taxation based societal structure that allows you to accumulate and retain significant wealth. You are a selfish shit stirring idiot.
           • KJT 1.1.1.2.1.2

             13 June 2017 at 2:41 pm

             What did you actually do to earn that money the Government is supposedly “stealing” from you.

             Most likely you “stole” it from the rest of us, or inherited it.

             In your low tax fantasy land you would most likely be living on the road side with all your other thick as pigshit “Libertarian” mates.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.2.1.3

             13 June 2017 at 6:18 pm

             But as this blog bears testament to…most aren’t happy with this theft…

             It isn’t theft. You don’t speak for anyone other than whoever spoonfed you your dipshit dogma.
       • AB 1.1.1.3

         13 June 2017 at 11:33 am

         Actually – Tax-evasion is theft.
         And tax-avoidance, while nominally ‘legal’ is often enough theft too because it is contrary to the intention of the lawmaker and achieved only by very complex ‘structures’ that cost a lot to set up and are mostly available only to the rich. So yeah – I’m pretty comfortable with calling tax avoidance theft too.
         • In Vino 1.1.1.3.1

           13 June 2017 at 5:50 pm

           “Property is theft” (Proudhon.) Has Blade already stolen what he says the Government is stealing from him? Sub-conscious guilt may explain his arrogant aggression and wishful thinking. Entrepreneurs and Capitalists excel in theft through artificially jigged up systems that allow them to profit-gouge, and call it virtuous…
       • Ch_Ch Chiquita 1.1.1.4

         13 June 2017 at 12:15 pm

         Tax is theft?
         Let’s look at a family of 4 with two teenagers. Parents has a combined income of $150,000. They will be paying about $30,000 in tax. It sounds a lot of money! Theft!
         Now let’s say the govt announces they will be taking no tax whatsoever, but for every service you will pay. So, the family needs to send kids to school. Looking at tuition costs of a private school it is currently about $20,000 per year per child. If we take off the GST component (as no tax will be taken by govt), even then it is more than what they will save on income tax.
         Do you think that from the GST they will save, they will be able to buy health care, roads, police just to name a few services the state provide? Plus save for a rainy day as the govt can not afford the safety net as the govt doesn’t have any income.

         Tax is good. It gives you all these services that otherwise you will not be able to afford!
         • garibaldi 1.1.1.4.1

           13 June 2017 at 12:31 pm

           Words fail me Blade. Your attitude epitomises what is so wrong about neoliberalism .The sad thing is you are unaware of it.
           • Blade 1.1.1.4.1.1

             13 June 2017 at 12:51 pm

             Have you anything to add to the debate apart from feeling sorry for me?

             ”What is so wrong about neoliberalism ”

             If it wasn’t for neoliberalism we wouldn’t have a blog to post on. You can object to something on idealogical grounds. But when you diss something outright because it’s not part of your worldview then you have a problem..it leads to fanaticism.
           • tom 1.1.1.4.1.2

             13 June 2017 at 1:02 pm

             Exactly.
             This is the proof of what i have been saying for yrs and yrs, if we had a proper media that actually informed the public with balance, we could have these discussions in public and the vast majority of NZers would see how pathetic the neoliberal argument is, and how easily it can be rationilized.
             Foolish comments like Blade’s would just be laughed off as the joke they are.
             But with our current media when no informed discussions take place, neoliberal points are put forward in a PR spun narrative that makes them sound, to the undiscerning, semi rational, and when there is no opposite points put forward to show how pathetic they are, the public are misled down the garden path, like our little troll Blade here.

             Also note to Blade when a group of people get together and say ‘hey all our kids need to be educated lets pool together and build a school for all our kids’ that is the essence of tax, it is the pooling of resources for common good as is cheaper together.
             It is called a social contract, not theft
             • WILD KATIPO …

               13 June 2017 at 1:51 pm

               ‘ It is called a social contract, not theft’,

               Which Blade would argue is the case for beneficiaries to pay back any moneys given to them by Welfare – regardless of incompetent National party MP’s like Paula Idiot Bennett putting beneficiaries up in motels knowing full well they can never pay it back.

               Again , further evidence of neo liberals using a basic principle and twisting it round to sound virtuous when in fact , it is a foil for incompetence , the housing crisis and justifying shoring up global neo liberalism.

               A bit like those jumped up self righteous globalists who believe in business losses and then claiming it back in tax- which is taking from others in effect- they throw the book at anyone not strong enough to defend themselves and give no concessions whatsoever.
             • WILD KATIPO …

               13 June 2017 at 2:03 pm

               ‘ But when you diss something outright because it’s not part of your worldview then you have a problem..it leads to fanaticism.’

               ….Says Blade.

               Lets count all the times this character has been ‘ dissing’ anyone who disagrees with him / her. And tell me , is this person aware of the neo liberal goals of the Mont Pelerin Society – its founders and their end objectives?

               Perhaps it is time for Blade to do a little acquiring of an edumacation to end his days of being one of the clearly uneducated and great unwashed…

               New Right Fight – New Zealand. Against the political New Right.
               http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/
             • Blade …

               13 June 2017 at 2:08 pm

               ‘This is the proof of what i have been saying for yrs and yrs, if we had a proper media that actually informed the public with balance”

               You fell at first hurdle.

               Most of the media are on the Left. They have let you down.

               ”Also note to Blade when a group of people get together and say ‘hey all our kids need to be educated lets pool together and build a school for all our kids’ that is the essence of tax, it is the pooling of resources for common good as is cheaper together”

               Very true, Tom. By agreement and not compulsion..do you understand the difference? Read my comments above.
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

                 ‘ Most of the media are on the Left. They have let you down.’

                 Funny that , – when prominent columnists in the Guardian were found to have been undermining and constantly giving Jeremy Corbyn criticism. And many consider the Guardian to be ‘ left wing’.

                 They are clearly ( most of them ) closet Blairites.

                 Which is the softened social face of the neo liberal.

                 I think what we have got here is clearly a case of you being a sucker for the Rupert Murdoch globalist press. You believe anything he instructs his outlets to say. And I guess you actually believe George Soros speaks the truth as well.

                 ”By agreement and not compulsion..do you understand the difference?”?

                 I think it is you that has been sucked in by globalist neo liberals definition of the difference between ‘ agreement and compulsion’… so make a cup of tea, sit back in a comfy armchair, eat a gingernut and have a little listen then…

                 And BTW … Alex Jones is a nationalist , he states that the left and the right are two heads of the same beast. The neo liberal beast. Hence the Blairite phenomena. Hes right , and he explains it in this documentary.

                 The Obama Deception HQ Full length version – YouTube Part 2 …
                 Video for The Obama Deception HQ Full length version – YouTube Part 2▶ 53:38
                 http://www.dailymotion.com/…/xq58s1_the-obama-deception-hq-full-l...
               • tom …

                 13 June 2017 at 3:03 pm

                 Blade Its sad you believe the crap you do, you really need to read outside your own bias.
                 In terms of media that is funny, but i think you weren’t joking so again is just sad. Try reading Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky as first bit of reading on this topic, then get back to me and ill give you more literature to inform yourself with, but that is a good start, i have studied this area for 20 yrs so i assure you i can lead you to some thorough material

                 Social contract, you do not understand that either, again is sad, but not necessarily your complete fault, society has led you down this garden path, the social contract you are born into, humans deigned it into being when they decided was better to group together than be lone wolf cave men. We all have options to re define the exact details of the contract thru government, this process has been corrupted no doubt, in the west by Neoliberalism in the last 40 yrs, but still the concept does not change and we can turn it back to what it should be but it requires an informed citizenry which leads back to my original posting
         • Blade 1.1.1.4.2

           13 June 2017 at 12:56 pm

           What you miss is scale of size once the government takes no tax. Of course regulations would have to be lifted to allow a free flow of services to be created. That’s where socialist can’t compete. That’s why they hate capitalism.
           • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.4.2.1

             13 June 2017 at 1:15 pm

             What a load of bollocks.

             Remove regulations and watch as ‘the market’ collapses into a free-for-all – otherwise known as feudalism.

             It’s the capitalists that can’t compete as all they do is destroy while the socialists build up and improve society.
             • Blade …

               13 June 2017 at 2:15 pm

               You mean like Cuba and Russia? What did China use to get themselves out of the dark ages? Why capitalism.

               Think, Draco think. Nothing in our present state of evolution can beat Capitalism.

               Question: Is there anywhere in the world where Capitalism isn’t hindered by socialism, or socialist style regulations?

               If your answer is in the negative… what is true capitalism?
               • KJT …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

                 Somalia.
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2017 at 2:39 pm

                   Somalia!!! Isn’t that a Muslim country? And isn’t Islam a collectivist ideology. Hell, it’s death for apostasy. As Chris Trotter has found out, that’s a socialist trait.

                   Now you run along KJT, and let the oldies ruminate.
                   • KJT …

                     13 June 2017 at 2:46 pm

                     Very good description, when your statements are at the intellectual level of “cud chewing”.

                     Everyone wants to live in a high tax country. I wonder why?
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 3:32 pm

                     Wow, and you were having so much fun with ” Somalia”

                     Your reply.

                     ”Very good description, when your statements are at the intellectual level of “cud chewing”.

                     Enough said.
                   • lprent …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:09 pm

                     Because you appear to be somewhat think on current affairs. I will assist you.

                     Somalia is currently the ultimate libertarian ideal. No state. Virtually no community. No obvious government. No taxes. No law outside of what you can protect and hold.

                     Of course it has lots of warlords, criminal gangs, and tends to prey on all passing ships.

                     But it does sound like the kind of place that a wingnut libertarians seem to aspire to.
                   • bwaghorn …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:26 pm

                     ”and let the oldies ruminate.”
                     if what you put up is the best that oldies can come up with maybe we need to expand the euthanasia bill to include toxic gits
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2017 at 4:57 pm

                     That’s not a Libertarian paradise, Iprent. That’s anarchy with no constitution that a Libertarian state would have.

                     And the people are collectivist. No individual striving there.

                     Collectivism is a socialist ideal because socialism doesn’t produce. Socialism leeches off the productive. Like pilot fish.

                     I guess that’s why we have Somali pirates.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     13 June 2017 at 6:57 pm

                     Socialism leeches off the productive.

                     Haven’t seen a shareholder being productive and yet they get infinitely more from a workers production than the workers do.

                     Those parasitic shareholders are capitalists.

                     The ones leaching from the productive are the capitalists.

                     This leaching always results in the collapse of society:

                     Modelling a range of different scenarios, Motesharrei and his colleagues conclude that under conditions “closely reflecting the reality of the world today… we find that collapse is difficult to avoid.” In the first of these scenarios, civilisation:

                     “…. appears to be on a sustainable path for quite a long time, but even using an optimal depletion rate and starting with a very small number of Elites, the Elites eventually consume too much, resulting in a famine among Commoners that eventually causes the collapse of society. It is important to note that this Type-L collapse is due to an inequality-induced famine that causes a loss of workers, rather than a collapse of Nature.”

                     Reality always contradicts the beliefs of the RWNJs.
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 13 June 2017 at 2:52 pm

                 The problem clearly is , Blade you lack the discernment to know the differences between ‘capitalism’ and neo liberalism.

                 These ‘foreign trusts’ which have contributed to NZ being a tax haven under John Keys watch are a symptom of globalism. And the aims and end goals of globalism have nothing to do with fair trading and a regulated and healthy economy. It also has nothing to do with national sovereignty. In fact , – its hostile to it.

                 Have another cup of tea and a gingernut.

                 InfoWars Invades Bilderberg 2017 – YouTube
                 Video for alex jones bilderbergers 2017▶ 10:13
                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNe3Kt-U8FY
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   13 June 2017 at 7:09 pm

                   The problem clearly is , Blade you lack the discernment to know the differences between ‘capitalism’ and neo liberalism.

                   There’s no difference.

                   I know people like to think there is but there isn’t and the result of capitalism is always the collapse of the society that it arises in.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 8:25 pm

                     Indeed there are core principals that are similar , but there are also striking differences.

                     Such as the NZ Reserve Bank Act and the USA’s 1913 Federal Reserve Bank Act – which basically unhinged the supply and flow of money away from the elected govt and the people it represented and into the hands of the Oligarchs / Globalists / Neo liberals .

                     Jane Kelsey makes a compelling case for this in her book – ‘ The FIRE Economy’.

                     The move away from gaining wealth domestically by production of tangible goods to the making of vast amounts through borderless intangible things like Insurance, banking /finance and real estate etc.

                     The ‘ FIRE’ industry’s do not need a base. They can happily function more efficiently if they are not tied to one country – as it works to their advantage to be Global.

                     Thus we have the Globalist Oligarchs…those who happily set up in , and exploit third world workers , pay little to no tax , who are a mobile , unelected and politically motivated social class who use their wealth and power to influence elected govts by financial bribes and threats of economic severity if they do not comply.

                     Hence the widely unpopular austerity movements in Europe .

                     Hence also we see that there IS , in fact , a vast and HUGE difference between traditional ‘ capitalism’ and neo liberalism.

                     A massive difference. They are two completely different animals.

                     You simply would be in error to conclude that Keynesianism and neo liberalism are stable buddies. They are not. It is that plain and simple.

                     One has mechanisms in place to protect local industry and local workers wages and standards of living, – the other seeks to Globalize the former and undermine the latter whilst disenfranchising the targeted economy.

                     So we see that globalism is subversive and treasonous by nature and the other examples by virtue of not being ‘ globalistic’ are not necessarily- they are simply planning for the national best interests..

                     Some globalists would even call its opponents who adhere to the last example as ….. ‘ isolationist’s’ / ‘protectionists’.

                     And with the latter- there is nothing wrong with protecting the best interests and national sovereignty of your nation.

                     Because there will always be those opportunists lining up with greedy eyes thinking of potential material gain and adding to their power base….
                 • Carolyn_nth …

                   13 June 2017 at 7:15 pm

                   Neoliberalism is a version of capitalism…. on steroids. Globalisation has been going on a long time – as part of western capitalism. In the 19th century it was called colonisation. Some called it imperialism.

                   Basically, take the commonly owned or used stuff from local populations by theft, brutal war, and/or deception; change it somewhat, by paying slave wages to the poor, and sell it back to local populations at a much higher price than the original theft and cost of the subsequent labour and manufacturing.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 8:00 pm

                     You are 100% right , Carolyn nth.

                     Neo liberalism certainly is capitalism on steroids.

                     And Globalism definitely is a modern variant of colonisation. It fits the bill entirely in all its symptoms. It has been around in different forms for a long, long time as well… longer than most would care to imagine.

                     Which is why at least with Keynesianism we had import tariffs to protect domestic industry , jobs and vital utility’s built up and owned by the public to avoid monopolist oligarchies.

                     Which is what we had post WW2 – pre 1984.

                     So we now see, what Blade is referring in all probability is neo liberalism , – not Keynesianism.

                     But the question remains then , just who are all these neo liberals and how did they manage to effect such a stunningly successful hijacking of western economy’s if they were NOT organized….
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   13 June 2017 at 9:47 pm

                   Hence also we see that there IS , in fact , a vast and HUGE difference between traditional ‘ capitalism’ and neo liberalism.

                   No, we don’t.

                   Have a look at traditional capitalism. A real look at what really happened and stop believing the BS about it being productive nirvana. It’s not and never has been. Capitalism has always been about exploiting others for the gain of the few.

                   You simply would be in error to conclude that Keynesianism and neo liberalism are stable buddies.

                   Keynesianism was an attempt to save capitalism from itself. It failed because capitalism always channels the wealth to the few. It’s what it’s designed to do.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 10:03 pm

                     * ‘ A real look at what really happened and stop believing the BS about it being productive nirvana. ‘

                     There never was and never will be a ‘ productive nirvana’. Ever.

                     * ‘ Capitalism has always been about exploiting others for the gain of the few.’

                     Which is precisely why we need a system that regulates and mitigates its excesses like Keynesianism – unless we want to give up entirely and send children back up chimneys to clean them as they used to in the 19th century as neo liberalism has no scruples in doing …

                     * ‘ Keynesianism was an attempt to save capitalism from itself.’

                     No , that is only true on a superficial level – despite certain despots using their new found wealth generation for warfare such as Adolf Hitler- who was financed by and large by the Thule society anyway.

                     It was a direct response to the 1929 Great Depression brought on by the policy’s of Laissez-faire and Friedrich Hayek and the social chaos it wreaked on the worlds nations – particularly in the west.. Admittedly , it was used as a tool to stabilize governments by stabilizing their economy’s… but the alternative would have been mass revolt , anarchy /revolution.

                     And it was an interesting fact that in each case of every country that accepted it , – they went from being in the red and into the black , on average in 6 months – including Japan , and around 1 year later than all the rest ,… the USA , accepted and achieved it resulting in the same results.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 10:29 pm

                     FOOTNOTE ;

                     It was Sir Keith Holyoake that signed for and accepted loans from the IMF in the 1960’s to be paid back in the year – you guessed it – 1984.

                     Sir Robert Muldoon was aware of this – being also a prominent member of the IMF (Chairman Board of Governors IMF and World Bank 1979-80, ) and knew what was coming. And that is why he opposed floating the dollar. He was trying to stave off the wolves.

                     -Sir Robert Muldoon – The Independentwww.independent.co.uk › News › People

                     And those’ wolves’ came in the form of Roger Douglas – who became a Board of Directors member of the Mont Pelerin Society . A society that was foundered by Friedrich Hayek and financed by Maxis und Von Taxis of Germany and that was hostile to John Maynard Keynes and his economic theory .

                     * New Right Fight – New Zealand. Against the political New Right.
                     http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/

                     Muldoon was a firm Keynesian economics adherent. And was strongly influenced by his socialist Grandmother. He tried his best to prevent the neo liberal apocalypse he knew was coming.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 10:40 pm

                     Obituary: Sir Robert Muldoon | The Independent
                     http://www.independent.co.uk › News › People
                   • joe90 …

                     13 June 2017 at 11:06 pm

                     It was Sir Keith Holyoake that signed for and accepted loans from the IMF in the 1960’s to be paid back in the year – you guessed it – 1984

                     Muldoon, his finance minister, negotiated the IMF loan.

                     https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=8tRaAwAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PA38&lpg=RA1-PA38&dq=Finance+Minister+Muldoon+_+IMF+loan&source=bl&ots=CHi9rmWpSY&sig=nChI67QNXsXPpOOoOwc5qVfh6Pk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMq9S11rrUAhWBjpQKHe75ATkQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=Finance%20Minister%20Muldoon%20_%20IMF%20loan&f=false
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     13 June 2017 at 11:12 pm

                     And at that stage , was also not the PM,… was he…

                     Which , by the very intent of that question … implies he was acting under orders ,…

                     Which again , – meant that once Sir Robert achieved the status of his former boss , ie : PM , – meant that he perhaps thought he could influence another outcome entirely than the one chosen by his predecessor.

                     Which is exactly what I and many others believe he was trying to achieve in order to be true to both his Keynesian and democratic socialism ideology.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     13 June 2017 at 11:43 pm

                     Which is precisely why we need a system that regulates and mitigates its excesses like Keynesianism

                     No, that’s why we need to get rid of capitalism and replace it with something better. Something that doesn’t transfer the wealth of the world to a small clique of sociopaths.
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     14 June 2017 at 12:25 am

                     * ‘ No, that’s why we need to get rid of capitalism and replace it with something better. Something that doesn’t transfer the wealth of the world to a small clique of sociopaths.’

                     ………………………………………………………

                     Which is a wonderful idea but wont happen. Despite my agreeing with what you would like to see happen.

                     Two reasons why – one based on human nature and one an analogy :

                     1) From the day we are born we are concerned primarily with our own needs for survival. As we age , we get more sophisticated and become socially aware that we are not the center of the universe.

                     However, we are still primarily concerned with our own best interests. Whether that includes that of our family’s ( which it usually does, including relatives and friends ) is reliant upon the individual and their psychological make up.

                     For those who gain a measure of social conscience, – we become concerned with the greater good of our community’s and ultimately – our nation. But through natural attrition, most of us do not achieve any effective measure of influence of national import. Otherwise we would all be in parliament.

                     But because of this inherent quality of human beings to be mindful of self preservation, it is this very same quality that prevents elevation -or group think – to act in unison for the greater good unless enforced upon them to do so.

                     And because of our egocentric mindsets – we rebel against external forces that would force us to do things against our will. Fascism is the very most extreme example of this forcing of our wills to conform.

                     And typically , – it is often not until conditions become dire that we unite in a common cause against that antagonism that originally caused that desire to unite en masse.

                     Such is human nature.

                     ……………………………………………………

                     The analogy is this :

                     During the 1970’s , my father worked as an ARA ranger in the Waitakere Ranges. A smaller part of his duties was monitoring those collecting shellfish and approaching those he suspected of taking more than the quota. Frequently, he came across gatherers who had a full bootload full of shellfish in excess of the amount of people actually gathering them.

                     Many were grossly undersized.

                     This was before the days when fisheries officers were regularly threatened with physical violence by members of the public without having a Police presence. Yet even then , it was a bold person who would approach 5-6 adults unknown to enforce what should have been commonsense.

                     The point is this:

                     Those people knew full well that those shellfish beds were of a limited biological sustainability , – yet they still chose to plunder them for their own selfish short term reasons.They were not thinking of the greater good of whakapūmautanga ( sustainability ) for others , only for themselves.

                     Hence the need for enforcement of regulations for the greater good of all people and future sustainability and survival of those shellfish breeding populations.

                     So given the inherent nature of human beings to be selfish , and until that time comes when they desist in behaving like this, we need to have a system that ensures fairness for all party’s.

                     It is not good enough to simply dream about some time in the future when nirvana will be reached. It is not good enough to sacrifice millions of lives on some idealistic goal for the future.

                     And this is why I advocate Keynesianism. It is not perfect. It has faults. But it also has checks and balances that guard ( in theory ) against the excesses of unwarranted greed and avarice.

                     Which is completely opposite to the rampant free for all of the current neo liberal globalist ideology.

                     And this is what the shellfish analogy has been all about.

                     The greed and avarice of neo liberalism.
               • greywarshark …

                 13 June 2017 at 5:18 pm

                 That bore Blade seems to be taking up a lot of room. Perhaps he is actually looking for a room. Would someone take him in and listen to all his facile comments and give us a break. Because Blade wants to be heard, he isn’t into discussion or learning, his name repeated brings him alive, real.

                 A fitting quote is from Corinthians 13.

                 1 Corinthians 13:1
                 “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”
                 • WILD KATIPO …

                   13 June 2017 at 9:49 pm

                   Nice comment …

                   The background context of that Biblical passage was the Apostle Paul speaking to the church of Corinth regarding “Glossolalia” ( Greek – meaning tongue or language) – or in other words – the speaking in tongues under the Holy Spirits unction.

                   He was speaking about in the assembly of the early Christian church if there was not an interpreter present to translate that message in another tongue that the person should remain silent and that he would rather speak 10 words in a known tongue that all could understand and that could benefit the body of believers. Also – and more importantly – he was speaking on whats called the ‘Love’ chapter- as in ;

                   Love
                   1) If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2) If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.…

                   And here it is set to the music of Larry Norman :

                   Larry Norman – Without Love You Are Nothing ~ [Lyrics] – YouTube
                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0kWX8w-2c
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.5

         13 June 2017 at 1:13 pm

         1, No, that’s actually what you’re arguing for.
         2. Tax is payment for services rendered. Not paying it is theft.

         No surprises that you’ve bought into the lies of the rich.
         • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1.5.1

           13 June 2017 at 4:42 pm

           Yep, and I would include ‘living in a decent society’ as one of the “services rendered”. There is a lot more to it than just direct payment of a teacher’s salary etc – it is about the whole quality of society.
           • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.5.1.1

             13 June 2017 at 7:10 pm

             +111
       • Foreign waka 1.1.1.6

         13 June 2017 at 7:01 pm

         Blade, what you are saying is that the law of the land means nothing and it is OK to swindle ones way through without any regard to anyone else – like a mercenary looking for the best paying deal. Stateless, with no connection to any society or community and above all, no conscience about the people affected by the behavior. In other words a despicable human being whose first rule is called ME, and because there are so many it certainly does not mean that it is right.
2. Cinny 2

   13 June 2017 at 10:51 am

   Tax haven denial by the outgoing government, public pressure leads to a law change, nek minute.. almost 2,000 foreign trusts exit the country rather than supplying more information to satisfy the new laws.

   LMFAO, what a crack up, nothing to see here, yeah right.

   See ya later loop hole cowboys, go exploit another countries laws, no doubt you already are.
   • KJT 2.1

     13 June 2017 at 11:08 am

     Now to close the money laundering, tax dodging loopholes, foreign ownership of New Zealand companies and real estate.
   • AB 2.2

     13 June 2017 at 11:43 am

     I’m sure there is no correlation Cinny.
     I am just totes comfortable with what Sir John said at the time – that it was all hunky dory and great for “Niu Zillon sconamee”
     • Cinny 2.2.1

       13 June 2017 at 5:34 pm

       AB 🙂 Lmao ! 🙂
3. Keith 3

   13 June 2017 at 11:10 am

   So carefully and quietly our former knighted PM and his friends in the National Party toiled away in the shadows to ensure the wealthy could hide their ill gotten gains here in what was previously ethical honest NZ, no questions asked.

   And then some bastard who saw this laundry for what it was ruined everything by telling the world about the Panama Papers. And suddenly we were dodgy shifty NZ to the rest of the world.

   It was all going so so well!
   • tc 3.1

     13 June 2017 at 1:17 pm

     jobs done already as once you get the funds here, tax free, then pull them out and buy some speculation/regulation free property.

     Shonky would’ve pimped NZ out before he got elected as they had the changes all queued up waiting. Urgency and corporate media do the rest recall S59, nanny state, shower heads bs etc.
4. WILD KATIPO 4

   13 June 2017 at 12:42 pm

   HAHAHAHAHA – suck on it , thieves !

   No more front company’s, no more shafting of third world workers wages ( that’s us ), no more tax rorting of govts , no more arms deals and drug proceeds caching , no more minimizing of oil , precious metals and gems proceeds ,etc etc etc…. now you will have to disclose it !!!

   Oh wait ,… criminals like this always have a back up plan and make their move weeks before the event… like rats off a sinking ship. Oh well , Pony tail puller, piss in the shower , Operation Burnham flee-er , SOME call him ‘Sir’ john key did his best to protect his mates best interests so he wont be in the shit with them.

   So between this, Operation Burnham and Trump putting the final boot into Keys beloved globalist TTPA , he ran off to get a knighthood and join an airline company.

   Leaving the poor mans reptilian watered down blue blood Bulldust English at the helm.

   What sacrifices these reptilians doth maketh for one another – when the sailings fair.

   Add a little adversity , – and their at each others throats for their place in the power hierarchy as soon as look at each other…
5. Robert Guyton 5

   13 June 2017 at 12:46 pm

   Wayne Mapp hasn’t commented on this post.
   • mary_a 5.1

     13 June 2017 at 1:03 pm

     Robert (5) give Wayne a chance to respond please. He’s probably a very busy man right now, sorting out his trusts!
     • WILD KATIPO 5.1.1

       13 June 2017 at 1:31 pm

       AND ,… having a very fast paced chat with Gerry Brownose on the phone while hes sorting through his papers about an inquiry….
       • mary_a 5.1.1.1

         13 June 2017 at 3:14 pm

         WK (5.1.1) … Ah bless. Poor baby Wayne has a bit on his plate to deal with at present. Everything seems to come at once doesn’t it?
         • WILD KATIPO 5.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2017 at 3:34 pm

           Yes, they say it comes in threes….

           So it wont be long before the next wholly preventable blunder strikes, I should imagine.
6. David Mac 6

   13 June 2017 at 1:39 pm

   All those rats running down the mooring ropes? Something is up aboard.

   I wish I was paying a million dollars a year in tax.
   • The decrypter 6.1

     13 June 2017 at 1:53 pm

     +111–rats running down the mooring ropes==
7. adam 7

   13 June 2017 at 2:50 pm

   It’s a shame Puckish is not here to answer, nothing to see here. It would appear that at least some of the leaches on the system have done a bunk. 1800 of them.

   Yeah it may just be a wonk issue, but boy this is one that they can pull out for years, and years, and years.
   • WILD KATIPO 7.1

     13 June 2017 at 3:12 pm

     Two old Geezers sitting at the barstools reminiscing …

     ”Remember when ,… whats that tossers name again ?… Key somebody ,… told us all and swore black and blue that NZ wasn’t a tax haven and denied all those high falutin foreign organizations that said it was ”?

     ”Hehehehe ,… yeah that’s right , – then he scarpered off and did a runner and left that Dipper bloke in charge. Then they lost the election ” !!!

     ” HAHAHAHA !!!… yes, – that’s right ,… I remember now … ”

     ”And didn’t all those fancy trust outfits up stakes and toodle off smartly afterwards ?”

     ”They sure as Hec did , – Hell ! – anybody’d think they had something to hide ” …
   • rod 7.2

     13 June 2017 at 3:26 pm

     Yes. Whatever happened to Puckish? anyone know.
     • Robert Guyton 7.2.1

       13 June 2017 at 3:46 pm

       Pucky realised that his position was unconscionable and removed himself from the debate. James, BM, Blade et al haven’t the wit to connect the dots and make the same decision. Hence, they’re still signing in for a day’s trolling.
       • WILD KATIPO 7.2.1.1

         13 June 2017 at 3:58 pm

         Gosh – I hope their Troll Trade Union is advocating for them for any RSI claims they make having to spend such long hours chained to their computers, then.

         I wonder what the Union award rate is for right wing trolls?

         And do they get equitable annual holiday and sickness leave as well as double time for any extra hours worked ?
     • Andre 7.2.2

       13 June 2017 at 4:32 pm

       Copped a long ban, I vaguely recall it was six months or until one month after the election or something like that.
     • adam 7.2.3

       13 June 2017 at 5:14 pm

       Puckish let out his inner racist and coped a ban for some pretty terrible racial slurs.
8. Robert Guyton 8

   13 June 2017 at 4:04 pm

   They work Gloat Time, like Glide Time only smarmier.
9. greywarshark 9

   13 June 2017 at 4:18 pm

   The Pied Piper of Havalot has danced off piping his merry tune, and where will he lead his feral mates now so they can trough on the best slops.
10. Mrs Brillo 10

    13 June 2017 at 9:25 pm

    1800 gone. How many more to go?
    I’ve come all over Sound of Music:
    So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbyyyeeee….!
    • WILD KATIPO 10.1

      13 June 2017 at 10:54 pm

      Well then lets do it and celebrate with Julie Andrews in royal fashion then , 🙂

      Julie Andrews The Hills Are ALive – YouTube
      Video for julie andrews the sound of music you tube▶ 2:15
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R462Ro5fqU
      • mary_a 10.1.1

        14 June 2017 at 5:52 pm

        Thanks for this WK (10.1) … beautiful, just beautiful. The Sound of Music, one of the best shows/movies out there. Being a great fan of the music of Rodgers and Hammerstein, this was a real treat to find on this blog, particularly one with the topic of the Panama Papers fallout! So refreshing. Many thanks from this golden oldie anyway.

        I do wonder how this sort of music/show would go down in today’s social structure.

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