web analytics

Parsing John Key

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, April 21st, 2015 - 32 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: , ,

John Key is treating the New Zealand population with contempt in the way that it is responding to the latest Snowden revelations.  He would have us believe that Nicky Hager is propagating false information AND dealing with stolen information all at the same time.

So which one is it?  If Hager is lying then what he is saying ought to be easily disproved.  And if he is relying on stolen information then obviously it is accurate not to mention deeply disturbing.

Or is it that John Key is speaking out of many sides of his mouth at the same time?  He has an uncanny skill of doing this.  If you want an example then parse this recent passage from the Herald:

[Yesterday], Mr Key told Radio New Zealand the claims were “unproven”.

The paperwork revealed New Zealand’s GCSB spy agency worked with the United States’ NSA elite hacker team – the Tailored Access Operations division – which specialised in cracking computer systems and planting spyware on computers.

The documents emerged in a reporting project between the Herald on Sunday, investigative journalist Nicky Hager and the US news site, The Intercept, which had access to Snowden’s information.

But Mr Key said: “I would not take everything these guys say literally by any stretch of the imagination.”

He said he had not seen all the information that Hager had access to.

“[Snowden’s] a thief and he stole and you’ve got a bunch of people who’ve been out there propagating information that’s actually been proven to be incorrect.”

Mr Key said no country in the world, including China, talked about the work their foreign intelligence gathering services performed.

“They don’t do it in the United States … they don’t do it in China, they don’t do it anywhere else.

“In the end we have legally established foreign intelligence gathering services – they are there for a reason, they are there for the protection of New Zealand and New Zealand interests and that’s what we do.”

Get that?  In a few sentences Key goes from the claims being “unproven” (Hager always said he had no proof), to an aggressive false sequiter by saying Key would not take every single thing Hager had said literally (only most?), that he has not seen all of Hager’s information (who said he had?), Snowden is a thief AND propagating information proved to be incorrect (which is it?), New Zealand does not talk about these things (why can’t it issue a simple denial), and the GCSB is legally established (which is completely different to a legally established entity deciding to act illegally).

And the funny thing?  Key has not directly denied that the GCSB has worked with the NSA to spy on the Chinese.

The episode displays something about Key which is becoming more and more obvious.  He is not a big wheeler dealer who made his millions by the complexity of the deals that he completed.  He made his money by lining up contracts and persuading the parties through a combination of guile and sloppy language that for each of them it was the deal of the century.  He is a used car salesman on methamphetamine enhanced steroids.  With the assistance of the best focus grouping that money can buy he says what he thinks the various parts of our community will want to hear.  When he is under pressure he says many different things at the same time to a variety of different audiences with a group of tailored messages.

The last time he was this desperate was after the release of Dirty Politics when the response was the same, it was all a lie and the information was illegally obtained all at the same time.

Although I may buy a used car from that man I would prefer that he was not the Prime Minister of my country …

32 comments on “Parsing John Key ”

  1. Craig Glen+Eden 1

    But sadly the journalists hardly ever say, so hang on a minute PM? Is it that the info is stolen or false that you have a problem with? As you rightly point out if its just false made up shit you don’t have to steal a thing you just make up more false stuff.

  2. adam 2

    I think Ray Davies says it best about our dear PM. Thanks for reminding me of this song MickySavage.

  3. Tracey 3

    “But Mr Key said: “I would not take everything these guys say literally by any stretch of the imagination.”

    Is that like “my office”, Prime Minister hat, Pary leader hat, ordinary bloke hat.

    OR transference

    • It’s a way of diminishing Hager/Greenwald/Snowden’s status as informed experts on the issue. If they’re just “these guys” they’re not to be taken as seriously as “these well-regarded investigative journalists and surveillance professionals.”

  4. dukeofurl 5

    Ask if the GCSB was spying on NZ residents or citizens when it was tapping on communications links between Chinese consulate offices

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      It would be very unusual for embassy staff to have permanent residency, let alone citizenship, in NZ.

    • Murray Rawshark 5.2

      Indirectly, it would have been. You do not go to a Chinese visa office to obtain a NZ visa if you are Chinese. Such an office deals with visas to visit China. For an office in Greenlane, there is a slight possibility that at least some of the applicants would be Kiwis. Some of them may have even correpsonded with the Chinese diplomats using email, which would have been collected, which is apparently different from surveilled.

  5. hoom 6

    Here is how I parse Key: If his mouth is open & sound is coming out of it he is lying or at best telling half truths.

    It might be easier if Blip gave up on the lies list & went for the probably much shorter list of cases where he has actually been upfront with verifiable truth.

    The fundamental logic of this particular one is severely broken:
    If the documents are stolen *and* they are false -> Why are the NSA etc internally producing & storing so many false documents?

    • Murray Rawshark 6.1

      “the probably much shorter list of cases where he has actually been upfront with verifiable truth.”

      Publishing nothing doesn’t have much impact.

      • vto 6.1.1

        Hi there mr rawshark, just thought I would see if you have yet managed to explain how the rainbow warrior incident was “legally an act of war not terror”

        http://thestandard.org.nz/be-afraid-be-very-afraid/#comment-1002498 and other

        I am confused as to the lack of response

        [I just saw this. You guys know the rules. Open mike please – MS]

        • Murray Rawshark

          Are you my new stalker? I can’t be bothered responding to you. I have useful things to do, like watch grass grow.

          [I just saw this. You guys know the rules. Open mike please – MS]

          • vto

            Sure. What an epic fail. On both counts

            edit: you have given me the giggles again in suggesting the Rainbow Warrior was an act of war. he he

            • Murray Rawshark

              A little chronology.
              1. You post a definition of terrorism and a list of a few things you consider terrorist acts, including the attack on the Rainbow Warrior.
              2. I state that my opinion is that the Rainbow Warrior attack fits the legal definition of an act of war, rather than your posted definition of a terrorist act.
              3. You laugh. I have no idea why. You ask for a definition of an act of war.
              4. I give you one, from an authoritative legal dictionary.
              5. You laugh some more.
              6. In a subsequent post, you suggest that your previous definition of terrorism is ridiculous.
              7. You misquote me, with “legally an act of war not terror”.
              8. You giggle some more.

              The epic fail would be to waste any more time debating with someone whose version of their past arguments is as slippery as FJK’s.

              • vto

                ffs it doesn’t fit the definition of war as provided by you…. which was … “The use of violence and force between two or more states to resolve a matter of dispute.”

                The Rainbow Warrior incident does not fit that definition you yourself provided. Can you see where?

                I’m out too. All that other shit you just posted you can keep – its yours not mine

            • In Vino

              vto, what is wrong with you? Rainbow Warrior was deliberate sabotage, and qualifies as an act of war. You believe that it also qualified as an act of terrorism. I thought it did not, and that you were allowing Orwellian Newspeak to contaminate clear debate through over-loose definitions. (You have to go to really big dictionaries to get full definitions, and your internet-sourced short definitions are far from adequate.)
              I now see you have imputed political motives to some of my earlier replies. Are you calling me a right-wing troll? Just to reassure you, my support left the Labour Party along with Jim Anderton. I have never voted right wing, and my choices last election were either Greens or Te Mana.

              Got that?

              You may be young and passionate – I do not know. But I think you need to realise that dissent is not necessarily treachery.

              All too often the Left argue and fight harder amongst themselves than they manage to do against the Right.

              Neither Murray Rawshark nor I are Satan personified.

              Let it go.

              • vto

                I don’t know what you are on about.

                • In Vino


                  • vto

                    You’re as bad as murray. Where is your definition and the facts that fit it? Eh?

                    murray’s never worked. How about yours? Where is it?

                    Never mind all that other crap, just concentrate on the point at hand.

  6. Sacha 7

    At least Kim Hill managed to laugh at his desperate lies. Didn’t manage to get past them though.

    As has been said by others, when is a journo going to do their fricking job and challenge the PM to specify exactly what has been ‘proven’ wrong about anything Hager, Snowden or Greenwald have published. Just one fact would be a start.

  7. saveNZ 8

    This is exactly why the SIS and GCSB should be more accountable.

    They should not be a support group for John Key allegations against Nicky Hager.

    The lack of transparency is lowering and making a mockery of our justice system.

    We have allegations of misuse of international and national law.

    But none can be proven because there is no transparency for these organisations. Therefore they can not be held to account and have limitless power.

    A few facts coming out….

    NZ allowing the US to spy on diplomatic Chinese cables in NZ.
    NZ spying on our Pacific neighbours including NZ’ers living there.
    Mass surveillance of all Kiwis, their information spirited away to another country and seen by unknown people and kept in an unknown state.
    GCSB misusing it’s position to aid National in making Phil Goff leader of Opposition look untruthful and incompetent.

    etc etc

    I think Key has gone beyond a 2nd hand car salesman and got himself into the treason situation of selling NZ’s personal information as well as allowing this to happen to our neighbour’s in the Pacific AND our trading partner China and indulging in personal attacks on rivals via intermediaries.

  8. mac1 9

    mickeysavage says that John Key uses “a combination of guile and sloppy language.”

    A recent pronouncement if John Key’s about house prices deserves a similar ‘parsing’ treatment. He said on April 20 “There’s probably a general view that house prices are not over-valued.”

    Note his use of weasel words- ‘probably’, ‘general’ and ‘not over-valued’.
    Ask yourself what he actually has said that is certain or definite. There is nothing, except a lot of wriggle room if he got challenged upon what he actually means.

    It is such a meaningless statement that it could come from someone who actually believes that house prices are over-valued but is couched in terms which distance the speaker from the views expressed.

    What does John Key believe about the level of house prices?

    His ‘combination of guile and sloppy language’ provide a superficially reassuring comment on a huge political issue, that is meaningless and easily defended. The language is sloppy, but deliberately so. a

  9. Rolf 10

    All information digging journalists publish is “stolen” because the information was never intended for them. This is how western democracy works. Journalists dig to expose misdemeanors and dirty works by politicians, to keep them honest, or so the public can sack them. New Zealand need a way to dispose dishonest politicians mid term. They should never feel safe.

  10. keyman 11

    John key is the prim minister he can treated anyone anyway he likes he is a awsome

    • Pasupial 11.1

      Even by keyman’s low standards that is total gibberish.

      Key is not prim, and his conduct is quite improper.

      • keyman 11.1.1

        its people who question him or try to trick him who do not respect his high office people like hager printing that disgraceful book

  11. Pasupial 12

    NRT makes a good point regarding Key’s evasions:

    When brave leakers and journalists have revealed the dirty deeds of “our” spy agencies, the government’s response has been to consistently stonewall. “We do not comment on security matters”, they say. Unless, apparently, they think they have a success story to tell us


  12. david 13

    JK is the master of the diss. So his language is peppered with “whatever”, “it can’t be verified”, ” my office”, “I can’t recall that sort of detail”, ” we can’t interfere with a market decision”.

    If an employee did this they would be seen as underperforming as they would be seen as Wafflers, not knowing what they talking about, and they would have no credibility.

    It seems people can end up governing countries for long periods if they are like this though.

  13. Sable 14

    Who said Shonky is talking out of his mouth……

  14. Key has been talking out both sides of his face since he first spoke to the Equiticorp/H-Fee inquiry in 1991. Here’s him lying to Kathryn Ryan about his ‘truthful’ statement one week before brain-dead New Zealanders elected him Prime Minister. All the waffle about the transactions are meaningless. What is important is the dates he was at Elders 84-87, which he says he got ‘wrong’ in 2007. He had to ‘correct’ them in 2008 when his statement to the Equiticorp inquiry surfaced. He lied to the SFO, fabricated his statement to them to help out a mate who was facing fraud charges. He left Elders in 87, not long after Elders announced in June 87 they would be restructuring. How do we get Key’s statement investigated?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Schools back donations scheme for the second year
    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruapehu cycle trails gets PGF boost
    The spectacular Mountains to Sea cycle trail in Ruapehu District will receive $4.6 million in funding from the Provincial Growth Fund for two additional trails, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This is an exciting development for the local community, and one that will provide significant economic opportunities ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Update to air border order strengthens crew requirements
    Additional measures coming into effect on Monday will boost our defence against COVID-19 entering New Zealand through the air border, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “As part of our precautionary approach and strategy of constant review, we’re tightening the requirements around international aircrew,” Chris Hipkins said. The COVID-19 Public ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • A true picture of Māori business activity
    A better picture of the contribution Māori businesses make to the economy will be possible with changes to the way information is collected about companies and trading enterprises. Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Small Business Minister Stuart Nash have announced a new option for Māori enterprises who are part ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • PGF funding for Taranaki projects
    The South Taranaki museum, a New Plymouth distillery and a Pasifika building firm will benefit from a Government investment totalling more than $1 million, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. The $1.05m in grants and loans from the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will help the recipients expand and create ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Fijian Language Week 2020 inspires courage and strength during COVID-19 pandemic
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says the theme for the 2020 Fijian Language Week reflects the strong belief by Fijians that their language and culture inspires courage and strength that is strongly needed in times of emergencies, or through a significant challenge like the global COVID-19 pandemic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Trades training builds on iwi aspirations
    An investment of $2.025 million from the Māori Trades and Training Fund will support Māori to learn new skills while making a positive difference for their communities, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “K3 Development Limited Partnership will receive $2,025,000 for its Takitimu Tuanui apprenticeship programme, which will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Conservation Minister plants two millionth tree in Raglan restoration
    A long-term conservation project led by the Whaingaroa Harbour Care group in the western Waikato reaches a significant milestone this week, with the planting of the two millionth tree by the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. “Planting the two millionth tree crowns 25 years of commitment and partnership involving Whaingaroa ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Seniors – our parents and grandparents
    International Older Persons Day is a chance to think about the individual older New Zealanders we know and to confront ageism, Seniors Minister Tracey Martin said today. “What happened around COVID-19 is a reminder that our over-65s are a very large and diverse group of people and we need to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago