Pike River – who to believe?

Written By: - Date published: 11:52 am, May 2nd, 2017 - 45 comments
Categories: accountability, bill english, disaster, Mining - Tags: , , , ,

Amidst the confusion over the Pike River videos, the Pike River families are sure of one thing, Bill English is lying. Newshub:

Pike River families say they were never shown video – despite police and PM’s claims

A spokeswoman for the Pike River families says they were never shown the latest video – as police and the Prime Minister claim – saying if they had “we would never forget it”.

Carol Rose, whose son Stuart Mudge was killed in the explosion, said she had canvassed 23 people at the two meetings where police say it was shown and not one of them remembers seeing the footage. …

45 comments on “Pike River – who to believe?”

  1. SpaceMonkey 1

    Ockham’s Razor… this Government has a history of lying. I believe the Pike River families.

  2. michelle 2

    Well someone is telling porkies and based on the gnats track record and there lack of recall I think its them. How does the saying go ‘ once a liar always a liar’ and they have polished there fibs and porkies.

  3. Yep they would never forget it. English going down – he’s a joke, a liability, out of his league, beyond the pale, ding ding it’s lunchtime billy – time to go. How close are the gnats going to play this game of chicken before they blink the bogus bill bloke away and replace his sorry arsk with WIN material.

    • mickysavage 3.1

      Agreed they would never forget it. The video is mesmerizing. Imagine having one of your family presumably dead in a mine and watching video as the robot goes down the drift. It would not be something you would ever forget.

      I am really disturbed that no one has ever had to face the music about what happened.

      • AmaKiwi 3.1.1

        +1

        They would never forget.

        The old boys always look out for each other.

        If there is no independent prosecutor, there isn’t any corruption. The world is told we are free of corruption and Nicky Hager is just a conspiracy theorist. Don’t complain. She’ll be right.

  4. mosa 4

    Of course English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

    The fact that this evidence was withheld from a royal commission is in its self an appalling faliure.

    Twenty nine men have died here and this government is still playing games with their families six years on from this disaster, first with John Key’s atrocious deceitful statements and now with Bill English treating all of them with contempt.

    • Sabine 4.1

      so gut it needs to be repeated

      Of course English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

      + 1

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2

      The fact that this evidence was withheld from a royal commission is in its self an appalling faliure.

      Withholding it is lying by omission.

      Twenty nine men have died here and this government is still playing games with their families six years on from this disaster, first with John Key’s atrocious deceitful statements and now with Bill English treating all of them with contempt.

      It’s the National Party – the contempt for workers has always been there.

    • Anne 4.3

      … English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

      Yep. A bit like the responses to “Hit&Run” by the NZDF and govt. Political quackery engaged in and not a whimper from the MSM. Instead they concentrate on the 12 hour delay of Labour’s list announcement. Got to get their priorities right. (sarc)

      Edit: I see the H&R point has been mentioned by others. No matter. The more it’s said the better.

  5. saveNZ 5

    Yep, +1 to Pike River families. Think their recollection might be more accurate…

  6. Ad 6

    The media play of this leak goes as low as it gets. MSM wants no justice – just perpetual story.

    English will need to fully front to tv and flood them with footage.

    V similar to Clark and the “corngate” GMO book tv interview IMHO.

    • SpaceMonkey 6.1

      Because there is a story. If this National Government had acted with honour and John Key had kept to his word, none of this would be an issue and… it may very well have been settled by now.

    • Liars get caught – the media report it – they arent making the story. People died and people care about that.

  7. ianmac 7

    English relies on briefings.
    Keating says no problems so English says no problems.
    Police say miners were shown videos. So English says they were shown videos.

    A wise Leader would say we had better check. Somebody is wrong.

  8. mary_a 8

    More shabby treatment of the families of the mine victims of Pike River, by this uncaring government.

    Given Natz history of deceit, lies and subterfuge, it’s really a no brainer.

    The Pike River families have no reason to lie or cover up. They will be telling the truth … whereas on the other hand, the dirty, devious Natz …!!!

  9. As the shock of the video was released and time was given to rally a defense, we see how the story changed ….

    ……………………………………………………………..

    PM rejects Pike River cover-up, launches detailed criticism of news report
    By Isaac Davison
    6:30 PM Monday May 1, 2017
    New Zealand Herald

    ”Last night, police told Newshub that they did not hand over the footage to a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the mining disaster because it was assessed as having no evidential value. This added to the families’ feeling of a cover-up.

    Police deputy commissioner National Operations Mike Clement said today that the police had mistakenly been referring to an earlier piece of video evidence taken inside the mine in November 2010. English confirmed the March 2011 footage had been turned over to the commission of inquiry.”

    ……………………………………………………………………

    AND THE ONLY problem with this whole thing is that not only do the Pike River family’s all say they had never seen that footage , – the lawyer who represented them , Nigel Hampton QC says he never saw it despite ‘ putting pressure on Police to release all footage ‘

    Pike River footage reinforces call for re-entry to mine, lawyer says
    10:52 AM Monday May 1, 2017
    New Zealand Herald

  10. Red 10

    Audrey young reports news hub and green have been very dodgy on this. Men where never more than a couple of meters in the mine A shame for the conspiracy theorists though

    • mauī 10.1

      I guess you ignored what was reported then, that the video shows wall-e the robot going 1500 metres into the mine. Did you look at the time stamps on the video? You think wall-e was sitting there a few centimetres into the mine with the barn door wide open for a whole 3 frickn hours? and then bizarrely fries its own circuits for no reason??

      • mordecai 10.1.1

        Maui the video has been edited by NewsHub to sensationalise their story. They are a disgrace to journalism, and are making things worse for the families.

    • McFlock 10.2

      Define and cite “a few metres”, pls.

    • ianmac 10.3

      Audrey Young always writes to defend her family and her PM and if there is a spiteful angle to put against the Labour Party, she does not hesitate.
      Believe her at your peril Red.

    • Red , you seem to forget the Police changing their story as they seem to have caught the National party disease in conveniently forgetting facts….

      One day they deemed it as ‘ no evidential value’ and didn’t show it.

      The next day they say they did and that all the family’s including their lawyers viewed it. Including the Royal Comission.

      At least with QC Nigel Hampton and the Pike River family’s they have been emphatic all along they had never seen it.

      I think you and Audrey need to take some memory pills yourself along with some Top Brass of the Police and certain National party MP’s – including their PM.

      • mordecai 10.4.1

        Red is correct, there is massive misinformation being spread.
        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1705/S00014/pike-river-video-footage.htm

        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.4.1.1

          The National Party falls victim to media misinformation? That’s terrible. Will you be ok?

          • mordecai 10.4.1.1.1

            I’m ambivalent to that. My concern is for the families, who are being mislead.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.4.1.1.1.1

              The families say they have access to more material than the media, so you will need to find some different lines to spray your wholly fake concern.

              If the families release more material and it becomes an election issue, the right will attack them.

              • mordecai

                Now we all have access to the video. 13 hours of it. There is no cover up, just a dishonest media. And by some of their own. (“We didn’t see the video…”)

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  If you say so. Personally, I’m happy for the media narrative to portray the National Party as callous lying scum, because that’s the truth.

  11. dukeofurl 11

    Confusion Marketing 101

    Same old same old for the Afghanistan villages story as well

    You can see a trial of confusion over previous aspects Pike River.
    Did Key promise to ‘categorically get the boys back’ or did he promise to do ‘the best they could ‘- the video showed it was ‘ absolutely get the boys back’

  12. tc 12

    if you were laying odds about national telling the truth over pyke river then it would be long odds and no end of bookies would take your money.

    When shonky said ‘Whatever it takes ‘ he was referring to protecting corporate interests, workers are expendable resources under national.

  13. Incognito 13

    The pattern has become all too familiar: innocent people die (e.g. Pike River, Hit and Run) and this National Government tells us that there’s nothing to see folks, please move on. Sometimes the Truth will not be found and not everybody will be ‘satisfied’ with it but we should at least make a genuine and honest attempt. National proves again their contempt for the Truth and those who seek it.

    • Red 13.1

      What you want to believe and truth may be two different things unfortunately It’s probably just time for every one to move on, its just politics now with the left taking advantage of family grief for political gain,

      • McFlock 13.1.1

        ^ case in point.

      • WILD KATIPO 13.1.2

        So what would you suggest the public do , Red ?… just lie down and wait until the next workplace disaster and more people die?

        Pull out support for the Pike River family’s and tell them all ” their all just a bunch of whiners and just get over it ? ”

        Just like Key called one of the women who embarrassed him and called him out on his bullshit duplicitous promise ?

        Adopt the ‘ nothing to see’ line every time someone suspects corporate skulduggery and Worksafe lets off the Manager scot free because its a bad look for future mining corporate’s concerns like this ?

        Forest & Bird says Government has secret mining plans for Denniston …
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11848323

  14. David Mac 14

    Can’t a drone with a cam and a light be programmed to not bump into things?

    Send in the drones.

    • Why not trust in the worlds eminent mines safety experts opinions and implement what they have already suggested and done a number of times instead in actual practice ?

      Kind of hard to gather concrete forensic evidence just with a drone…

      Isn’t it.

  15. Ross 15

    Nigel Hampton says he doesn’t recall seeing it during the Royal Commission and he recently consulted with another lawyer who doesn’t recall seeing it.

    But it should be a relatively easy matter to settle as the Royal Comission should have a record of the exhibits that were presented.

    • ” But it should be a relatively easy matter to settle as the Royal Comission should have a record of the exhibits that were presented.”

      Fair comment.

      But then we would have to reckon on whether the family’s have actually seen it as well. And so far they and their lawyer say they didn’t.

  16. Jum 16

    If they get the go ahead to open up to check for family members, station a trustworthy guard on that opening night and day. Too much could conveniently go wrong.

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Another constitutional outrage
    Another day, another constitutional outrage in the UK. This time, the government is saying that if parliament passes a law to stop Brexit before being prorogued, they may just ignore it:A senior cabinet minister has suggested Boris Johnson could defy legislation to prevent a no-deal Brexit if it is forced ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ending dairy in Canterbury
    Environment Canterbury has finally proposed nitrogen limits to stop dairy farmers from poisoning Christchurch's water supply. And naturally, farmers are whining about it:A proposed move by Environment Canterbury (ECan) to protect Christchurch's drinking water by setting tough – some would say, draconian – nitrate reductions in the decades ahead and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is National the party of climate arson?
    The Zero Carbon Bill is currently before select committee. While its targets are weak, its a generally sensible bill that promises to establish a long-term framework to guide emissions reductions. But National hasn't made up its mind on whether it will support it - and according to Andrea Vance in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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