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Post-US Election Discussion Post – day two

Written By: - Date published: 5:57 am, November 11th, 2016 - 267 comments
Categories: us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, check them out, usual rules apply there too.

267 comments on “Post-US Election Discussion Post – day two ”

  1. Cinny 1

    Watching the news last night, my anti trump 11yr old pipes up and says… Mum at least there is one good thing about Trump.. he’s anti TPPA.

    Good call little one, looking for the good, proud mummy moment.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    With all this talk of president Trump, everyone seems to have overlooked that the GOP controls the white house, the supreme court, the senate and the congress and they have a radical agenda designed to relitigate the post-depression settlement and plunge the United States back into the 19th century. They also have a religious policy designed to relitigate the enlightenment.


    The result will be mass unrest and the traditional US government response to that is massive, asymmetric state violence. The stage is being set for the descent of the United States into the dystopian nightmare of a heavily armed failed state.

    • joe90 2.1

      I guess we’ll wait and see whether or not the Democrats shot themselves in the foot.

      When a Republican is in the White House, it is common for conservatives to make excuses for the chief executive’s excesses. Likewise, when a Democrat takes the reins, many liberals, fairweather friends of the constitutional restraint, are prepared to overlook usurpations they would never otherwise tolerate.

      Democrats today, therefore, face a problem. For eight years, they have accommodated, abetted and defended unprecedented abuses that they accepted because they were performed by a president of whom they were fond of because his agenda and theirs were the same.

      Perhaps it never occurred to them that they were removing checks and balances that they’d wish existed when the other party took charge, as will be the case in two months’ time.


    • Colonial Viper 2.2

      A long term trend that Obama did nothing to reverse.

  3. The lost sheep 3

    For those of you who have been channeling the US Presidential result into the bullshit meme that it represents ‘proof’ of an uprising of discontent with the current system.

    Trump was elected on fewer votes than the previous 2 losing Republican candidates. Very slightly over 25% of the voting public in fact.
    The only ‘message’ is apathy – the opposite of revolution.
    ‘Why Trump is less popular than you believe’

    • The lost sheep 3.1

      Just picking up on the graph in Ben Clark post..

      Trump actually received 23.7% of the possible vote, and ‘Did not Vote’ was the winner with 42.2%

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        If Clinton had done what was required to win, she wouldbe President Elect now. But she chose the path of chilling out, taking entire weeks off the campaign trail, preferring to do fund raisers to actual meet the community events, refusing to engage with black voters as we was required, and so, she did not get the turnout required.

  4. Richard Rawshark 4

    I think News hub should hire this, member of the public who wrote to Patrick Gower, it’s one of the best written, really educational and informative takes on the US election you will ever hear, and it’s written by an ordinary person who grasps just what the US election was, far more then I, and as I perceived CV and others here have tried to say.


    Personally I banged on about the very point he makes more than addressing his remarkable points, I should have, I too was not speaking of this, and totally ignored it, why?, deep down as a white male, am I too subconciously like that? I would hope not. Though, I should always review what I say more often, and how I act and show tolerance to all(cept the Nats 🙂 ), But I am guilty of not speaking out enough about the very racism and sexism he calls out.

    In the future my posts here are going to incorporate some forethought and reflection on this before I click submit, to make sure when needed it raises awareness of this when called for, instead of banging on about how it’s all a big finger to the man, because that’s what I selfishly wanted to make it.-pathetic and simplistic.

    And his point about Winston, should we tolerate his racism? No.! We need to do more to curb any of this at all times, if we don’t, we too shall return to racist bigoted ways.

    Perhaps we already have?, I will leave that last question for you to ponder if you wish.

    I want a fair society, it doesn’t start by looking at others, it starts first by looking at ourselves

  5. Draco T Bastard 6

    The Republic Repeals Itself

    This is now Trump’s America. He controls everything from here on forward. He has won this campaign in such a decisive fashion that he owes no one anything. He has destroyed the GOP and remade it in his image. He has humiliated the elites and the elite media. He has embarrassed every pollster and naysayer. He has avenged Obama. And in the coming weeks, Trump will not likely be content to bask in vindication. He will seek unforgiving revenge on those who dared to oppose him. The party apparatus will be remade in his image. The House and Senate will fail to resist anything he proposes — and those who speak up will be primaried into oblivion. The Supreme Court may well be shifted to the far right for more than a generation to come — with this massive victory, he can pick a new Supreme Court justice who will make Antonin Scalia seem like a milquetoast. He will have a docile, fawning Congress for at least four years. We will not have an administration so much as a court.

    My bold.

    As I’ve said – we’ve been slipping back into feudalism. It’s what the right-wing of politics has wanted for centuries and they’ve finally brought it about.

    • joe90 6.1

      One man to rule them all. Palantir to find them,

      Though a self-described libertarian, he’s advocated for monopoly and argued that companies should be structured like monarchies. He’s funded idiosyncratic “political” initiatives, such as the Seasteading Institute’s project to create floating libertarian city-states. Famously, in a 2009 essay for Cato Unbound, he declared that he “no longer believe[s] that capitalism and democracy are compatible.” (Thiel has since said that he was wrong to think America was a democracy, calling it instead a “state dominated by very unelected, technocratic agencies”).

      Perhaps most interestingly, Thiel’s raised eyebrows by backing Donald Trump — not the candidate you’d expect to be the choice of a science-obsessed, futurist zillionaire. Recent media coverage of Thiel’s support for Trump has tended to focus, naturally, on Trump’s threat to “open up” libel laws and make it easier to sue the press. But there are also a host of odd connections between Thiel’s post-libertarianism and the new forms of right-wing politics that have accompanied Trump’s rise.


      • miravox 6.1.1

        “Trump’s threat to “open up” libel laws and make it easier to sue the press.”

        and sue presidential candidates and their surrogates? If so, Trump and Giuliani would have a lot of explaining to do.

    • Richard McGrath 6.2

      Hopefully Hillary, and maybe even Bill, will see the inside of a court in the near future.

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 7

    Yes…it’s Alex Jones again. But take a close listen to what Bev Harris says regarding why election results are held back in order to manipulate results.

    Election fraud is concerning for everyone and it’s vital we know what is going on.


  7. joe90 8

    The pledge to drain the swamp looks to be bait, with Carson, Giuliani, Christie, Brownback, Gingrich, Bolton, Huckabee, Palin, assorted wingnuts and Wall Street financiers in the frame, and switch – to a dairy conversion bigger than Texas.

    And the conversion could well be overseen by a man with deep ties to a religious hate group.



    • joe90 8.1

      Corporate lobbyist and former member of Congress says he’s ready to advise Trump on how convert to dairyto drain the swamp.

      WASHINGTON — Trent Lott, the former Republican senator from Mississippi, had gleefully flown back from Florida, where he had been working for the campaign of Donald J. Trump. Now a powerful lobbyist, his phone had been buzzing nonstop and he was busy helping to organize a briefing Thursday morning for dozens of corporate clients.


      “Trump has pledged to change things in Washington — about draining the swamp,” said Mr. Lott, who now works at Squire Patton Boggs, a law and lobbying firm. “He is going to need some people to help guide him through the swamp — how do you get in and how you get out? We are prepared to help do that.”


  8. Anne 9

    Former British Foreign Secretary, Dame Margaret Beckett dispenses with ‘diplomatic’ speak and calls it as it is:


    • Anne 9.1

      No edit function:

      From the text:

      He called for Hillary Clinton to have her security guard taken away.

      “He even insinuated that people who didn’t agree with her about gun control should perhaps think about shooting her. What kind of a man is that?”

      Well, two can play that little game eh?

    • Vile and horrible sum trump up well.

    • Colonial Viper 9.3

      UK Labour’s not going to take power next election anyway.

    • Richard McGrath 10.1

      “Climate denial” is simply dishonest – no-one denies that there is a climate around us.

  9. joe90 11

    I see Trumps statement about a total ban on Muslim immigration is back up on his site.

  10. Richard Rawshark 12

    Crew, Now Here this.., queue whistles for stand by stations..

    Russia/putin have just told the Americans they had contact with trumps campaign during the election..

    If your aware of world politics you will have been waiting for the sting in the tail as Russia does their utmost to destabilize the US, so far Putin’s mission is on track.

    Concerning but as suspected, Russia are not your friend Trump, neither are they Segal’s.

    you, dumb bastards. Know your history, especially Harry S Truman’s massive double cross. to Both Churchill and Stalin..

  11. joe90 13

    The Trump transition website’s entire financial services section is about their intent to dismantle the Dodd-Frank Act.

    Because dismantling federal regulations on banking and the financial industry will help the 9 out of 10 Americans who have less than $1000 in the bank .


    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      Trump’s a rich lister who doesn’t pay tax. It was obvious that he was going to pass laws that only benefit the rich and now he’s doing exactly that. Anybody else voting for him was a turkey voting for early Christmas.

      Of course, voting for Clinton was just voting for a slightly later Xmas.

    • Poission 13.2

      On the transition website,they are looking at regulatory reform across all sectors.

      Regulatory reform is cornerstone of the Trump Administration, and the effort will include a temporary moratorium on all new regulation, canceling overarching executive orders and a thorough review to identify and eliminate unnecessary regulations that kill jobs and bloat government.

      Federal regulators have issued 20,642 regulations since 2009, which have increased regulatory compliance costs by more than $100 billion annually.[1] Independent estimates total regulatory costs as exceeding $2 trillion annually[2] and small businesses, the driver of job creation, disproportionally face higher annual regulatory costs of $10,585 per employee per year ­— 36 percent above the regulatory cost facing large firm.[3]


      Righting the inequality that over complex regulation brings would be a good thing yes?

      Andrew Haldane brings some good arguments on this.

      complex regulatory frameworks tend also to be inequitable. They advantage those best able to exploit the cracks, navigate the uncertainty, squeeze through the loopholes. This tends to be those with the deepest pockets who can afford the most sophisticated risk-modeller, the slickest tax accountant.
      Complexity, in other words, acts like a regressive tax.

      That is why big banks (using in-house complex models) typically hold far less capital than smaller banks (using simplified, standardised alternatives) even when their underlying exposures are identical. It is one reason why Warren Buffet claimed to pay a lower tax rate than his secretary. And it is why, over the recent past, regulatory and tax arbitrage have both become high-growth industries. They are toxic exhaust fumes from the Heath-Robinson vehicles history has created.


      Reducing the sophistry from regulation (and interpretation) would reduce elitism.

  12. rhinocrates 16

    It is not actually true that Tom Lehrer retired from satire when Kissinger received the Novel Peace Prize saying that satire was redundant. However, this looks like being waaay beyond satire – Ben Carson, who think s that the pyramids are granaries, is being mooted as education secretary.

    As for the rest – Giuliani, Gingrich… feh.


  13. joe90 17

    Then Trump one percenters want to scrap rules mandating retirement advisors put their clients’ interests above their own because dismantling federal regulations on the financial industry will help the 9 out of 10 Americans who have less than $1000 in the bank.

    Donald Trump’s advisers are eyeing plans to scrap a landmark piece of the Obama administration’s financial reforms, giving relief to the industry that lobbied hard against the wide-ranging proposals but raising fresh concerns about consumer protection.

    Speaking after Mr Trump’s election victory, Anthony Scaramucci, a manager of a fund of hedge funds who is a member of Mr Trump’s economic advisory council, said the incoming administration should put the brakes on looming changes to the way retirement products are sold.

    “We’ve got to get rid of this,” he said.

    The move would be one of several to reverse policies pursued by President Barack Obama — part of a package of business-friendly measures that Mr Trump’s allies say will stimulate economic growth.


  14. rhinocrates 18

    Garrison Keillor’s opinion:

    To all the patronizing b.s. we’ve read about Trump expressing the white working class’s displacement and loss of the American Dream, I say, “Feh!” — go put your head under cold water. Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity. America is still the land where the waitress’ kids can grow up to become physicists and novelists and pediatricians, but it helps a lot if the waitress and her husband encourage good habits and the ambition to use your God-given talents and the kids aren’t plugged into electronics day and night. Whooping it up for the candidate of cruelty and ignorance does less than nothing for your kids.


  15. Colonial Viper 19

    Financial markets love Trump: record high Dow Jones close and intraday record


    • joe90 19.1

      Of course they do. With Wall Street insiders Mnuchin or Dimon mooted to run the shop they can’t believe their luck.

      • rhinocrates 19.1.1

        So much for sticking it to Wall Street then.

      • Colonial Viper 19.1.2

        Citibank created the shortlist for Obama’s Cabinet and sub-Cabinet level positions. So it’s standard practice.

        • joe90

          But…but….drain the swamp….

          • marty mars

            The bankers waited and their time has come again – how surprising not.

            • joe90

              Jim Wright will make you feel better.

              You see, Trump is about to learn the Obama Lesson.

              Trump is about to face Obama’s Gitmo.

              He’s not going to be able to make good on his campaign promises.

              Not all of them. Not the ones which matter most to his supporters.

              No, he’s not.


              But here’s the real kicker: Republicans will now have to govern.

              Donald Trump will now have to govern.

              It’s all on them. All of it.

              If they fuck this up, they’ll never get elected again.

              That disorganized bombastic campaign appealed to the people who put him into power, but that’s not going to work in office.

              Not at all.

              And all the people he’s so far produced or suggested to help him with the task of governance are terrible at it.

              And the one thing Americans, especially those Americans in the little red squares, will not tolerate is incompetence.


              • I know it’s like yes minister never existed. The shallow thinking is startling. Tridonatrumpus sux just will not deliver anything, he can’t, his fucking hands are too small.

                Note – Just being silly please I am not belittling him for his actual hand size, rather his perception that anyone gives a fuck.

              • Colonial Viper

                Hey joe90, do you remember Obama saying something back in 2008 about closing Guantanamo Bay? How’s that going?

                • joe90

                  Slow work but more than ninety percent of Guantanamo detainees have been released although the mooted appointment of Bush’s torturer in chief, Jose Rodriguez, means a probable return to black sites, because, well, you know – – Torture works. OK, folks? You know, I have these guys—”Torture doesn’t work!”—believe me, it works.

                  Donald Trump may select Jose Rodriguez, one of the primary architects of the George W. Bush torture program, to run the Central Intelligence Agency, according to a law firm with close ties to Trump.

                  Rodriguez, the former director of the National Clandestine Service, helped developed the CIA black sites, secret prisons operated in foreign countries where interrogators used a range of torture tactics, including the use of “waterboarding,” the simulated drowning technique once used by the Khmer Rouge and Nazi agents to glean information from detainees.


                • joe90

                  With John Yoo on the Trump transition team I wonder if crushing the testicles of a torture victim’s child is back on the menu.

                • joe90

                  Kelly Ayotte’s in the running for defense secretary so Guantanamo ain’t closing anytime soon. The Palestinians are fucked, too.


  16. joe90 20

    He opens his yap and he lies. every.fucking.time.

    Then he started his remarks with something that was not true: “This was a meeting that was going to last for maybe 10 or 15 minutes,” Trump said.

    The meeting had been scheduled to last an hour. The reporters brought into the Oval Office at the end were told long before not to even assemble for the brief access at its end until the meeting would have been going on for 30 minutes.


    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      Politico has been wrong about this election all year. Give it up. The American people have given the Republicans the White House, the Senate, the House and the Supreme Court.

      And the Democrats let them have it.

  17. Colonial Viper 21

    Violent anti-Trump protests from the left wing continue in the USA. Bricks thrown at police, flags burnt, shops destroyed, tear gas used.

    If right wing agitators were doing this at the successful election of Hillary Clinton…well the media reaction would be very different.

    • rhinocrates 21.1

      You’re right. There’s be a lot of “Oh dear” and tutting. The media have consistently underplayed right-wing terrorism, they refuse to even call it that.

      • rhinocrates 21.1.1

        Take for example the treatment of the Standing Rock Protestors. To their credit, some of the media are standing by them, and taking rubber bullets from the militarised police:



        Guess which side Orange Jesus has supported?

        On the other hand, the white right-wing terrorists who occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge (Native American holy land) were sent dildos by members of the public. Nobody in the media called them terrorists and while one was shot in a shootout, all the rest were acquitted.

        • marty mars

          + 1 good comment

          • rhinocrates

            Has to be said – in America not only white (or orange) men matter, no matter what CV wants to be the case.

            • Colonial Viper

              Why hasn’t President Obama sorted the Standing Rock issues out?

              He is still President of he United States, you know?

        • joe90

          Guess which side Orange Jesus has supported?

          Because they’re going to Make America Great Again!.

          .@UVA official says school police taunted pro-Hillary students by yelling "Make America Great Again!" over intercom. https://t.co/afL4u1dJ6u— The Daily Progress (@DailyProgress) November 11, 2016

          The extent to which law enforcement is aligned ideologically with Trump is honestly terrifying. https://t.co/tdcNdbgVNA— Jamelle Bouie (@jbouie) November 12, 2016

          edit: this clown is being considered to head the Department of Homeland Security

          Before long, Black Lies Matter will join forces with ISIS to being down our legal constituted republic. You heard it first here.— David A. Clarke, Jr. (@SheriffClarke) October 28, 2015

          • rhinocrates

            Covered pretty well in this documentary it seems:


            I’ve not had the chance to see it yet, but the theme’s been covered amply in literature and documentary already. LA writer Mike Davis for example has covered the rise of panopticism, incarceration and militarised fear-based policing in City of Quartz and Ecology of Fear.

            The pieces for full-blown fascist totalitarianism are there. It just needs someone to weld them together.

            • Colonial Viper

              I guess you were against the massive militarisation of police which occurred under President Obama then, eh?

              • rhinocrates

                Christ you’d really fail the Turing Test wouldn’t you? Where did I ever say that you idiot?

                Davis’ coverage goes back to the Reagan era (as does Trump).

                The pieces for full-blown fascist totalitarianism are there. It just needs someone to weld them together.

                I’ve seen bacteria with better reading comprehension.

                • Colonial Viper

                  the rise of panopticism, incarceration and militarised fear-based policing in City of Quartz and Ecology of Fear.

                  Snowden revealed the NSA panopticon during Obama’s reign. Massive excesses in the use of police force, especially against blacks. And yes, militarised policing with local police forces receiving armoured personnel carriers and military weapons.

                  All President Obama.

                  • rhinocrates

                    So what is your point? If someone does evil, the person who perpetuates it is vindicated? What kind of logic is that?

                    I guess I’d be offended by your insinuation if I’d been waving my flags for Obama, but I haven’t been. I’m afraid that it was the little voices in you head telling you that.

                    Again, goes back as far as Reagan at least, or Nixon if you count Kent State, or earlier if you count the Civil Rights movement. Where power exists it will be abused and Trump will be no exception. Indeed he has no shame in promising to do so and you have no shame in supporting it.

                    You game of false equivalences is not only stupid and ignorant, it seems to be so based on obsession on Clinton and Obama to the exclusion of everything else that I wonder about your mental health (not that I care of course).

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Just pointing out the tribal hypocrisy of the left.

                    • rhinocrates

                      I repeat:

                      So what is your point? If someone does evil, the person who perpetuates it is vindicated? What kind of logic is that?

                      So you admit none and return to your dick-measuring contest of one.

                      ‘The Left’ are not the Borg. Davis’s writing covers several administrations and Do Not Resist was made during the Obama administration and I recommended it. Hardly hypocrisy, but rather a lie – by you.

                      So what is it then, stupidity, dishonesty or derangement?

                      Not that the three are exclusive.

              • joe90

                We’ve already seen thinly veiled threats to his perceived enemies so I guess we’ll get to see the tiny fisted fascist use instruments of the state to follow up those threats.


            • joe90

              I’ve tried to watch this a couple of times but the rising bile stops me in my tracks.


              • rhinocrates

                Lucky it’s bile. You have a conscience. Certain other people would feel something else rise.

  18. joe90 22

    So, the Trump shoats who are going to run the family businesses as some sort of supposedly blind trust have got their snouts in the trough, too.

    The transition team. The two Trump offspring who did not make the cut were Barron and Tiffany. Rest are in. pic.twitter.com/e2MLHNnBgm— Alexander Panetta (@Alex_Panetta) November 11, 2016

    • Colonial Viper 22.1

      Oh I guess the Clintons don’t run a family business out of government, eh joe90?

      • joe90 22.1.1

        They never managed to get the whole herd a place at the fucking trough.

        • marty mars

          Yep trump is gonna make some dollarios – family business troughing.

          • Colonial Viper

            Unlike the Clintons, the Trump family actually have legit business interests.

            They aren’t in DC to make money. In fact, they are losing money by focussing on DC instead of their corporate interests.

            • marty mars

              Liars, fools and thieves and everynight the men would come around and lay their money down…

            • joe90

              They bilked their donors during the campaign and now they’ve moved on to bigger and better things – the US taxpayer.


              • Colonial Viper

                You should worry about Hillary Clinton, who received so much money from elite and foreign interests – and now cannot fulfill any of her promises to them.

                • joe90

                  Promises, huh.

                  Three days in and Trump stacks his transition team with lobbyists, reveals his intention to appoint long time establishment insiders to key positions, backs off on the ACA repeal, the wall turns out to be a campaign device and senior Republicans admit that those mining jobs are gone for good.

                  • Colonial Viper


                    He has 4,000 people to hire. Give him a few more days eh.

                    Meanwhile, Clinton needs to hope that Giuliani is not the new Attorney General.

                  • yep the con made plain. the only good thing is how very angry and upset the malignant supporters of trump will be when they realise the don has played them for fools. trump property will be in the firing line then.

            • rhinocrates

              This financial genius lost plenty of money pursuing his business affairs before campaigning. Used it as a scam to avoid paying taxes for a decade too.

      • Manuka AOR 22.1.2

        You mean, like the family “blind trust”, which it is not:

        Politico’s report added, “[While Trump’s] lawyer Thursday used the term ‘blind trust’ when discussing the family’s upcoming financial arrangement, putting Trump’s children in charge of a set of assets that their father is aware of does not constitute a blind trust. Under the legal definition of a blind trust, a public official places his finances under the management of an independent party. The official would have no knowledge of what is in the trust or how it is managed.” my bold

        Trump has ensured there is nothing that will stop him acting for his family trust whenever he likes, via his children.

        Excellent comments at that link

        • Colonial Viper

          Who cares what the Left think about this issue?

          Maddow et al gave Sec Clinton an almost complete pass for selling the office of the Secretary of State.

          Too late for the lefty liberal media to pretend to be interested in matters of financial propriety in office.

          • Manuka AOR

            So, you have no problem that when the POTUS makes various potentially world shattering decisions, one of the considerations for that decision can be the benefits it will provide to his own family business:

            The reason modern presidents put their investments in blind trusts is to avoid potential corruption and/or conflicts of interest. If the person in the Oval Office has literally no idea what he or she is invested in, that president won’t – and can’t – make policy decisions based on the potential effects on his or her personal finances. same link

            • Colonial Viper

              The Left was fine with the Clintons doing it; selling influence, selling favouritism, selling decisions, selling public office.

              I tried to bring it up time and time again as a major problem with Hillary Clinton; however from the responses I received, most commentators here appeared to think it’s totally permissible.

              So I have to thank all of you for teaching me that its OK.

              • Manuka AOR

                You still haven’t said that it is not okay for Trump to commence office while, unlike those before him, his family business is not in a blind trust.

                I have to thank all of you for teaching me that its OK

                Each person’s limits as to right and wrong are continually defined by each new situation they are in. That is what makes us human, and what shapes our character. Saying “They did it, so it’s okay now” is an immature response to the bigger questions facing the world now.

                • Colonial Viper

                  How is it “an immature response”?

                  It’s the response the left taught me over the last many weeks when I was attacking the Clintons for using public office to make a shit tonne of money for their own family.

                  But since the majority of responses I received back here on The Standard, was that this kind of corrupt behaviour was absolutely fine I have nothing new to add to your collective wisdom.

                  • joe90

                    It’s the response the left taught me over the last many weeks when I was attacking the Clintons for using public office to make a shit tonne of money for their own family.

                    Yet here you are stumping for a man a history of stiffing lowly paid workers and small businesses, flaunting financial regulations, and who has yet to clarify his own financial status let alone some of his, err, shadier dealings.

  19. joe90 24

    Anther day, another broken promise….

    “If I win we’re going to bring those miners back,” Trump said at the rally. “…These ridiculous rules and regulations that make it impossible for you to compete … we’re going to take that all off the table, folks.”


    “We will need to end or do away with the Clean Power Plan that prohibits the building of a coal power plant anywhere in the country,” Carter said.

    But even if demand for cheaper coal returns, many of the jobs lost over the past decade aren’t likely to be restored, particularly in Eastern Kentucky.


    • Manuka AOR 24.1

      What DTs said about retrieving the miners – has he been taking lessons from JK?

      About those promises he made, any word on his looking into the “rigged election” I wonder…

      Hackers, whichever country they were from – vote flipping of couple of states and he’d be home and hosed… He was so worried about that, despite having made certain promises to the leaders of various countries known for their hacking expertise

  20. Robertina 25

    This piece is a bit of an antidote to the dreary and scary sneering about the biased (against the Donald) ”liberal” media that’s prevalent on the Standard right now led by CV:

    It basically rejects the idea of an overarching narrative about the media’s performance in this election, and by extension, simplistic singular narratives about Trump’s victory.
    Apart from the obvious over-reliance on polling data, for me the biggest media fail was the assumption and continuing inference that only the poor and uneducated were Trump voters, which had been disproved but many in the media ignored this.

    There was a nice point in a piece in the Spectator, by Freddy Gray, that Trump’s campaign was both fake and sincere, but the media only saw the fake aspect while the voters understood it was both.


    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      People in Michigan may be seen as rural rubes by DC types, but I reckon they long figured out that Trump wasn’t going to build a wall bigger than the Great Wall of China south of the country.

      Fun chant though.

  21. rhinocrates 26

    Trumps friends on the Nazi site The Daily Stormer just having fun and games, and all, ahem kosher because Hillary called them rude names and their feelings are so very very important.


    If you see these people marching alongside you, know who they are and still keep marching, what are you?

    In the same article:

    A website, Why We Are Afraid, is similarly chronicling such incidents. One of the first images shows two water fountains at a high school in Jacksonville, Florida, with “Colored” and “Whites only” signs over each one.

    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      The left created and fed this menace with outlandish claims about Trump; the left will have to live with the results.

      • joe90 27.1.1

        First it was their straitened economic circumstances and now it’s the left’s fault that these cretins are emboldened.

        That’s quite some impression of an angry empty-headed right wing dope. Or not.

        Several black freshmen found themselves this morning being added against their will to a GroupMe message, labeled “Mud Men,” rife with racially explicit content.

        One member of the group, for example, posted an image of lynchings and then wrote, “I love America.” The same person posted an event into the message called “Daily lynching.” In what appeared to be another group chat, called “Trump is love,” one participant called another a “dumb slave,” and another posted a photo of a red hat with the words, “GRAB THEM BY THE P***Y.”


        Someone posted “whites only” and “colored” signs over water fountains at First Coast High School in Jacksonville, Florida.

        “The signs placed on top of the fountains are completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated by our school district,” Dr. Nikolai Vitti, Duval County Public Schools Superintendent, told LawNewz.com in a statement. “We are investigating the matter to determine who is behind the action to provide the appropriate discipline and counseling.”


      • miravox 27.1.2

        Own it CV. The menace, as you put it, is always there in some form, more or less. Social conventions keep associated violence in check.

        Your candidate gave people with these views permission to unleash them.

        • marty mars

          yep – permission granted by trump and boy have the lowlifes been emboldened. I’ve got friends in the US who are scared, literally frightened for themselves and their future – I can absolutely understand why they would feel this way.

          • rhinocrates

            Same here with friends in the US. One took up his dual NZ citizenship rights a while ago in anticipation of something like this happening and at least one other is already getting the cyberharassment from Trump trolls and fears for her safety as a minority.

            While things get worse in the US, CV gets more and more ridiculous.

            And miravox, don’t expect CV to own anything. Moral cowardice is a way of life for him. He is oppressed by the gays and the Jews and is shielded by his saviour Orange Jesus who can commit no sin. Nothing is his responsibility, everything is “the left’s” fault, including dandruff and a multitude of other hair-related complaints (look what they did to Trump! He defeated them though, hahahaha!).

            I’m not sure if Dunedin Labour dodged a bullet so much as a large custard pie.

            • miravox

              – and the feminists! Don’t forget the oppression from the sisterhood!

              But otherwise, yeah.

              • rhinocrates

                Oh yes, women… he does seem to have issues with women.

                By the way, I’ve figured out how right wing violence is the left’s fault. You see, when Killary Klinton sold her soul to Black Phillip the Demon Goat, he gave her the power of long-distance ventriloquism. As a result, whenever Trump stood up on his hind legs at his rallies and urged his faithful to go and commit acts of violence, it was actually Killary talking!

                Sadly, now she’s going to be reduced to performing that trick at children’s parties and making balloon animals. Demonic, sinister balloon animals.

                Alex Jones will tell you all about it shortly.

          • miravox

            I have family with friends in a similar state. Some too terrified to leave their homes. Some truly frightening experiences there.

            • rhinocrates

              The second of the two reports that a friend of hers committed suicide a couple of days ago. She cited fear of the coming actions of a Trump regime, taking his claims at his word.

              • Yep – I know someone who is teaching their children – don’t argue with the police, keep your head down etc. Another comforting their crying children as they ask if their friends will be deported. The parents doing the best they can whilst being quite afraid themselves – the fear is real and as we have seen the attacks are really only starting – first the disturbed do it, then the angry, and then the ones who are too scared to be on the other side – and before you know it we have youknowwhat – 19 fucken 30’s again. I refuse to sit by while that happens and many agree.

              • miravox

                This is also what my relative is dealing with. From afar the only thing she can to is lots of phone counselling and organising physical support for suicidal friends.

                Very dark times indeed for some people who aren’t mainstream enough for the Trumpists.

        • Colonial Viper

          Your candidate gave people with these views permission to unleash them.

          Miravox. Not quite.

          The Hillary campaign did, actually. Trump is the law and order candidate, and when he said he would make America safe again for all Americans, including those in the LGBTQ community and minorities in the inner cities, he meant it.

          However, the negative, dirty campaign that Hillary ran positioned Trump as the woman hater, the neo-Hitler, the racist bigot, the KKK supporter.

          So now that Trump has won, and some rather stupid voters on both sides believed Hillary Clinton’s campaign bullshit, then this is what you get: people who think that a Trump victory is a victory for KKK style attitudes.

          Trump is not President yet, and according to the US Constitution there is only one President of the United States at a time.

          So Barack Obama better get a move on and settle this unrest down. It’s doubly his responsibility because he was personally responsible for framing in the mass media that a win for Trump was a win for the KKK.

          • miravox

            That is the most fucked up response to any comment I’ve ever made to you, cv, and there have been a few fucked up responses over the years.

          • Manuka AOR

            positioned Trump as the woman hater, the neo-Hitler, the racist bigot, the KKK supporter.

            And here’s me thinking he did it all by himself.. I must have been hallucinating when I thought I saw him prowling behind her like a menacing stalker on the stage.. and pretty much every utterance he ever made that wasn’t scripted.

            • Colonial Viper

              Obama as POTUS confirmed Trump’s status as a global KKK icon. Not a smart move. A very short sighted and divisive campaign tactic, in fact.

              • McFlock

                Being a racist confirmed Trump’s status as a KKK icon.

                That was the divisive tactic.

                Would you have preferred Obama to have validated racism by ignoring it?

  22. Looking forward to this day

    “Professor Allan Lichtman uses a historically-based system of what he calls “keys” to predict election results ahead of time. In our conversations in September and October, he outlined how President Barack Obama’s second term set the Democrats up for a tight race, and his keys tipped the balance in Trump’s favour, even if just barely.

    At the end of our September conversation, Lichtman made another call: That if elected, Trump would eventually be impeached by a Republican Congress that would prefer a President Mike Pence – someone who establishment Republicans know and trust.

    “I’m going to make another prediction,” he said. “This one is not based on a system, it’s just my gut. They don’t want Trump as president, because they can’t control him. He’s unpredictable. They’d love to have Pence – an absolutely down the line, conservative, controllable Republican. And I’m quite certain Trump will give someone grounds for impeachment, either by doing something that endangers national security or because it helps his pocketbook.””


    yep don looked like a junior when he visited Obama and he is struggling I think – won’t be long before he regrets winning.

    Pence is seriously dangerous – keep an eye open for an ‘accident’ to trump that pushes pence all the way to the top – probably be some funny sounding named people that do it just so the US has someone to blame and bomb.

  23. joe90 29

    Trump wants to keep holding rallies as POTUS. Didn’t some other malignant, narcissistic shit stain do that?


    Returning home to Trump Tower from the White House may not be Mr. Trump’s only embrace of the familiar. His aides say he has also expressed interest in continuing to hold the large rallies that were a staple of his candidacy. He likes the instant gratification and adulation that the cheering crowds provide, and his aides are discussing how they might accommodate his demand.


    • marty mars 29.1

      ding ding – trouble ahead…

      • rhinocrates 29.1.1

        Yep, how’s he going to have settings to give him the glory he thinks he deserves? Albert Speer’s dead and Leni Riefenstahl is likewise metabolically challenged.

      • joe90 29.1.2

        Russian born Masha Gessen, journalist, author, LGBT activist and Putin critic has penned a survival guide.


        • rhinocrates

          Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture.

          • marty mars


            Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock. This will lead people to call you unreasonable and hysterical, and to accuse you of overreacting. It is no fun to be the only hysterical person in the room. Prepare yourself.

            • Manuka AOR

              That’s helpful – So, I don’t have to try and stifle or apologise for the anger I feel. (Because when I try to do that, I just feel grief and helplessness.)

        • marty mars

          Joe you find some great articles

          “The second falsehood is the pretense that America is starting from scratch and its president-elect is a tabula rasa. Or we are: “we owe him an open mind.” It was as though Donald Trump had not, in the course of his campaign, promised to deport US citizens, promised to create a system of surveillance targeted specifically at Muslim Americans, promised to build a wall on the border with Mexico, advocated war crimes, endorsed torture, and repeatedly threatened to jail Hillary Clinton herself. It was as though those statements and many more could be written off as so much campaign hyperbole and now that the campaign was over, Trump would be eager to become a regular, rule-abiding politician of the pre-Trump era.

          But Trump is anything but a regular politician and this has been anything but a regular election. Trump will be only the fourth candidate in history and the second in more than a century to win the presidency after losing the popular vote. He is also probably the first candidate in history to win the presidency despite having been shown repeatedly by the national media to be a chronic liar, sexual predator, serial tax-avoider, and race-baiter who has attracted the likes of the Ku Klux Klan. Most important, Trump is the first candidate in memory who ran not for president but for autocrat—and won.”

  24. joe90 30

    Dudes, ask Peter Thiel to fund you.


    Believe it or not, the Log Cabin Republicans are asking for contributions to help them, “ensure the advances in LGBT freedom we have made thus far remain secure and continue in a Trump administration.”

    Without giving any credit to President Obama, natch.


  25. joe90 31

    This could well push Clinton’s popular vote lead out to close to 2 million.

    Elections officials across California have more than 4 million ballots that have yet to be checked or counted, a number that’s almost half as large as all the ballots tallied so far from Tuesday’s election.

    The official total — 4,362,087 ballots — will undoubtedly change and possibly even grow over the next few days. Three counties, including vote-rich San Diego County, did not submit an estimate of unprocessed ballots for Thursday night’s statewide report


  26. joe90 32

    Trump has promised to remove every impediment to the Dakota Access pipeline in his first 100 days.

    Donald Trump’s close financial ties to Energy Transfer Partners, operators of the controversial Dakota Access oil pipeline, have been laid bare, with the presidential candidate invested in the company and receiving more than $100,000 in campaign contributions from its chief executive.


  27. trumpland = hate

    “A former Young New Zealander of the Year and her Kiwi friend were threatened with a knife and racially abused in California this week, amid a wave of hate-crimes that have broken out since the US election result…

    … When she turned around the man, pulled out a six inch kitchen knife. “I just kept quiet and the guy walked forward and started yelling f….. n…., f.., you n…..””


  28. trumpland

    “When pressed about the time between repealing and replacing Obamacare, Trump assured CBS correspondent Leslie Stahl that the two would happen “simultaneously.”

    “It will be just fine. That’s what I do, I do a good job. You know, I know how to do this stuff. We’re going to repeal it and replace it. We’re not going to have, like, a two-day period, and we’re not going to have a two-year period where there’s nothing. It will be repealed and replaced and we’ll know. And it will be great health care for much less money,” Trump said.

    But the President-elect did not offer a replacement plan.

    Trump also told the Journal that he would bring the country together and that “I want a country that loves each other.” But that grace did not extend to any reflection on his coarse rhetoric.

    When asked about whether his language was inappropriate, Trump said: “No. I won.”


    the donbaby does a good job right, RIGHT??? Guards arrest that person for not respecting me…

    meanwhile his promise will be broken just like him.

    • joe90 34.1

      “When pressed about the time between repealing and replacing Obamacare, Trump assured CBS correspondent Leslie Stahl that the two would happen “simultaneously.”

      I have no doubt he’ll keep bits of the ACA but once again; his transition site is quite clear – a return to high risk pools.
      Meaning the very people the ACA was designed to cover, those with pre-existing conditions and those who failed to carry continuous cover and go on to suffer expensive to treat conditions, will again be excluded form the health system.


      The Administration also will work with both Congress and the States to re-establish high-risk pools – a proven approach to ensuring access to health insurance coverage for individuals who have significant medical expenses and who have not maintained continuous coverage.


  29. I find the trump wait and see crowd to be pathetic. Typical middle roaders thinking about themselves. Same malaise as affects climate change pretenders. Instead of dealing with reality they pretend and hide. Their last descendants will note them and be ashamed.

    • joe90 35.1

      Friends don’t let friends become Rhinoceroses.

      It is a Sunday afternoon in a provincial town in France. Two men meet at a cafe. One of them, Berenger, is half-drunk. He is being berated by his companion, Jean. All of the sudden, they hear a great noise. When they and other townspeople crane their necks to figure out what’s going on, they see a large animal thundering down one of the streets, stamping and snorting all the way. A rhinoceros! Not long after, there’s another. They are startled. It’s outrageous. Something must be done. What they begin to do is argue heatedly about whether the second rhino was the first one going past a second time or a different one, and then about whether the rhinos are African or Asiatic.


      Eugène Ionesco was French-Romanian. He wrote “Rhinoceros” in 1958 as a response to totalitarian movements in Europe, but he was influenced specifically by his experience of fascism in Romania in the 1930s. Ionesco wanted to know why so many people give in to these poisonous ideologies. How could so many get it so wrong? The play, an absurd farce, was one way he grappled with this problem.


      At the end of “Rhinoceros,” Daisy finds the call of the herd irresistible. Her skin goes green, she develops a horn, she’s gone. Berenger, imperfect, all alone, is racked by doubts. He is determined to keep his humanity, but looking in the mirror, he suddenly finds himself quite strange. He feels like a monster for being so out of step with the consensus. He is afraid of what this independence will cost him. But he keeps his resolve, and refuses to accept the horrible new normalcy. He’ll put up a fight, he says. “I’m not capitulating!”


  30. rhinocrates 36

    If Orange Jesus just wants to spend his time “Making America Great Again” and cause the sun rise by bending over and spreading his cheeks, he’s indicated that most policy will be left to the Vice President.

    Vice-Messiah elect Pence on Roe versus Wade:


    Note that Roe versus Wade is not a law, it is simply a legal precedent based on a broad constitutional interpretation. A stacked Supreme Court will overturn it and that’s long been a Repug ambition.

    A response to this, which punches through all the weasel rhetoric that tries to turn it to an abstraction. Warning: extremely disturbing.


    • Colonial Viper 36.1

      If Trump lasts 2 terms he will set the tenor of the Supreme Court for the next 30 years.

      And because the Democrats keep losing state legislators and state governors, they will be hard pressed to stop conservative decisions at the Supreme Court level from flowing into action at the state level.

      Having said that I think that the Trump Administration will tread a cautious line on changes at the Federal level due to their understanding that abortion rights could become an area of extreme political contention that they do not need derailing their main economic agenda.

      • joe90 36.1.1

        abortion rights could become an area of extreme political contention

        Hate to break it to you but, ignoring the legislative efforts of the early nineteenth century, abortion rights in the US have been an area of extreme political contention for more than fifty years.

        • Colonial Viper

          My point was that the last thing a Trump Administration needs is to be mired in abortion rights protests at the same time that he wants focus on his economic and illegal immigration agenda.

          • joe90

            He’s quite clear; abortion is a 10th amendment issue and his transition site is quite explicit in regards to a federalist approach to the 10th.

            And if all else fails he very nearly has the numbers to slip in a sanctity of life amendment.


            The Supreme Court in 1973 based its decision on imagining rights and liberties in the Constitution that are nowhere to be found. Even if we take the court at its word, that abortion is a matter of privacy, we should then extend the argument to the logical conclusion that private funds, then, should subsidize this choice rather than the half billion dollars given to abortion providers every year by Congress. Public funding of abortion providers is an insult to people of conscience at the least and an affront to good governance at best.

            If using taxpayer money to facilitate our slide to a culture of death were not enough, the 1973 decision became a landmark decision demonstrating the utter contempt the court had for federalism and the 10th Amendment. Roe v. Wade gave the court an excuse to dismantle the decisions of state legislatures and the votes of the people. This is a pattern that the court has repeated over and over again since that decision. Roe v. Wade became yet another incidence of disconnect between the people and their government.



            Democrats now control only 13 state legislatures (26%). If they lose 1 more they fall below the % needed to stop constitutional amendments. pic.twitter.com/6tVxNSoO2q— Marc Porter Magee (@marcportermagee) November 12, 2016

      • rhinocrates 36.1.2

        Why are you keeping your fantastic time-travel technique from the world? Share it with us, I beg of you!

        Surprise surprise even this is “the fault of the left”.

        Pence is a fanatic. Look at what he’s tried as Governor already. Now he’s going ahead with the President, the Senate and Congress and most Governors behind him.

        Again, because you are clearly comprehension impaired:

        Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture.

        Now address that picture. Take a good long look at it and tell me it’s the left’s fault. Did she somehow deserve to die? She certainly got the “punishment” your Orange Jesus thinks she deserved.

        • Colonial Viper

          I’m not talking about the Left. I’m talking about the Democratic Party.

          And if the Democratic Party keeps losing state legislators and state governors (they lost another 3 governors on Nov 8) they will further lose the ability to resist the Trump/Pence agenda.

          BTW Trump isn’t an autocrat. Neither is Pence. Both have been constitutionally and democratically elected, and have to comply with both constitutional and democratic processes in office.

          • rhinocrates

            You’re deliberately diverting. Look at the picture.

            BTW Trump isn’t an autocrat. Neither is Pence. Both have been constitutionally and democratically elected, and have to comply with both constitutional and democratic processes in office.

            That would be hilariously naive if I didn’t know that you were such a compulsive liar and fantasist.

            Now look at the fucking picture.

            • Colonial Viper

              Meh. I correctly predicted an easy Trump victory months ago. And correctly predicted the Trump electoral vote margin weeks ago: around 290 electoral votes. (Although recognising that Clinton clearly had the much wider road to 270).

              So I think I look at the big picture and at reality adequately, thanks.

              • rhinocrates

                “Meh” and a boast about how big his dick is.

                Here, everyone is CV. This is how he reacts to the deaths of real people he thinks are irrelevant to his big (yuuuge) picture. The true sentiments of a fascist.

                You see CV, I don’t have to “win” the dick-measuring contest that you and Trump think you’re playing.

                I just have to get you to show everyone what a boil on the arse of humanity you are and you’ve performed admirably. It’s almost as yuuuuge an achievement as convincing Labour that Clare Curran was a better candidate.

                Now tell me about the picture – the little picture of the little person who doesn’t really matter.

                Because you see, it’s actually a big picture too. Throughout the history of humanity, the leading cause of death among women was childbirth and access to safe and legal birth control was revolutionary. The yuuuge picture is that Trump and Pence want to roll that back.

                • Colonial Viper

                  And I pointed out that the weakness of the Democrats limited their ability to fight back any such move – while pointing out that IMO a Trump Administration is going to be very cautious in their moves on abortion rights.

                  BTW I’m over your manipulative emotive outrage games. A supermajority of non-college degree white women voted for Trump and if they don’t like what he does this term, they can vote him out again.

              • Yeah not good when the truth of all your lies hits home eh cv. Run away coward we will tidy up the shit you’ve left.

                • rhinocrates

                  Every fascist who talks big is a coward just looking for a daddy figure to legitimise them.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    name calling and bullying is all you seem to have at the moment.

                    • rhinocrates

                      ….aaaand here comes the victim card.


                    • Colonial Viper

                      The same old victim card that you play like a champ, chump.

                    • rhinocrates

                      A couple of years ago I might have. I was drunk pretty much all of the time.

                      Then I took responsibility and got help. I suggest you try it.

                      So what do you think of the picture, the really big picture now that you’ve had your little diversion?

                    • Rwnj 101 play the victim

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The left wing have proven to be top grade bully shamers. People even stopped telling pollsters that they were going to vote Trump. 45% of white women with grad degrees voted Trump.

                      And because people like you love to shut down conversation with name calling and bully labelling, you never saw it coming until Hillary lost.

                    • rhinocrates

                      And still he’s claiming that he’s been victimised.

                      A sense of racial and gender grievance was the basis of Nazi “philosophy”. Klaus Theweleit is a good thorough read on that topic. Demagogues exploit that and legitimise violent retaliation.

                      More recent anthropologists and psychologists contrast “honour societies” and “dignity societies”. Honour societies fit this mould and so-called “honour-killings” are often characteristic. That’s the name we use when Muslims do it (though it has nothing to do with the Quran or Islam), but the demographic that Trump and his certain Chaplin-moustached predecessor appealed to shows this in high rates of spousal abuse and murder. As usual, if brown people do it, it’s terrorism but if white people do it it’s a case of “Oh dear, she must have really deserved it.”

                      So yeah, grievance is number one rnwj tactic. Being called “deplorable” is an insult to one’s honour. Having a swastika painted on your house (or worse), a death after a botched illegal abortion is all… “Meh.”

                    • rhinocrates

                      So what do you think of the picture of the dead woman CV?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      As I said before I’m not playing your stupid emotionally manipulative outrage games.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Of course you’re not, except when you’re the victim.

                      As I’ve said, I’m not playing your game. I just have to get you to show what you are and I’m practically writing the script. You’re giving a fine performance.

                      Narcissists have one big red button and it’s their sense of dignity.

                      So what do you think of the picture of the dead woman CV?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Klaus Theweleit is a good thorough read on that topic. Demagogues exploit that and legitimise violent retaliation.

                      The Left Wing demonized Trump from top to bottom and gave people moral cover to physically and verbally abuse perceived political opponents and riot and smash cars and shops.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      So what do you think of the picture of the dead woman CV?

                      You are showing off a photo of a dead woman for your sick political outrage games. I’m out.

                    • rhinocrates

                      “My delicate sensibilities are offended.” Classic troll flounce.

                      The Left Wing demonized Trump from top to bottom and gave people moral cover to physically and verbally abuse perceived political opponents and riot and smash cars and shops.

                      Not one psychologist would agree with you. Milgram and Zimbardo definitely show the opposite. It’s Trump.

                      Yes, indeed the picture is sick and outrageous.

                      Misogynists like you never want to face the consequences of their politics.

                      The dog shat on the carpet, I rubbed its nose in it.

                      Your fascist friends have bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors and if they get their way as Trump and Pense promise, more women will die like this.

                      And you will turn a blind eye and say “Meh.” Their lives don’t matter.

                      But if you get called “deplorable”… you’re the real victim, right?

                      So what do you think of the suffering that woman went through CV? Not as bad as yours?

                    • Well explained rhino. Rwnj’s always fear the truth because they are weak cowards just as trump and pence are. Distorted males who have no thought for the reality for others, the suffering and grief. No they like the numbers and the bits of paper. And thus the crooked crosses come to power on the cries of ‘i didn’t know’ when they know all along. I refuse to bow to their sickness, no way, never.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You guys still playing your sick game of emotional manipulation and blackmail.

  31. miravox 37

    Trump on social security:

    At the Miami GOP presidential debate in March, he said he would “do everything within my power not to touch Social Security, to leave it the way it is; to make this country rich again.” In August, his campaign told CNNMoney that “We will not cut Medicare or Social Security benefits, but protect them both.”

    Trump’s transition team includes privateers leading with Mike Korbey:

    Former senior advisor to the principal deputy commissioner in George W. Bush’s SSA; …

    Korbey is a long-time right-wing activist who has argued incorrectly that Social Security is “broken and bankrupt.” He worked for an organization called United Seniors Association, a sort of conservative counterpart to the AARP, that pushed for George W. Bush’s Social Security privatization scheme — and was hired by Bush to help tout his failed push for changes.

    Make of that what you will.

  32. joe90 38

    Remember, shit like this is happening because nine out of ten Americans have less then $1000 in the bank, because, rather stupid voters on both sides believed Hillary Clinton’s campaign bullshit, because, the left created and fed this menace, because……

    Was at a bar last night with @Middleditch. At the end of the night, 2 white dudes, 20's, who'd been there for hours came up to us.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    "We're big fans of you guys. (To Thomas) I trolled you on twitter yesterday." He goes on to say how we're wrong about Trump.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    I go "Hey we don't wanna discuss politics right now." His friends goes "oh they're cucks." Then starts yelling at us. "CUCKS CUCKS CUCKS!"— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    He starts getting in my face. Thomas puts his hand on the dude's chest to stop him. "Don't touch me you cuck. Wanna go outside?"— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    He starts getting in my face. Thomas puts his hand on the dude's chest to stop him. "Don't touch me you cuck. Wanna go outside?"— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    At this point, the bouncer runs over, grabs them, kicks them out. The bartender is awesome & apologetic. Thomas & I are stunned.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    This happened at a bar in LA surrounded by ppl. I can't imagine what it must be like to be someone who looks like me in other parts.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    We can't let hate/racism/bigotry/sexism be normalized. If something happens, be safe, but let it be known we won't stand for this.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    Many ppl are like "just cuz I voted for Trump doesn't mean I'm racist/sexist." Ok, but at best, you ignored it, you overlooked it.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016

    We thought Internet would give us access to ppl w different points of view. Instead it gives us access to many ppl w the same point of view.— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) November 12, 2016


  33. joe90 39

    Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.

    "Hitler's only kidding about the antisemitism" New York Times, 1922https://t.co/gDiiv5GkTv pic.twitter.com/r1fN4v6SFY— Cory Doctorow (@doctorow) November 11, 2016

  34. joe90 40

    7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country.

    This broke my heart. A woman was speaking Assyrian on the phone in BART & was berated by a female white trump supporter. Watch if you can: pic.twitter.com/X9WQkAc0qo— Sarah A. Harvard (@amyharvard_) November 11, 2016

  35. joe90 41

    Two men in a gold leafed elevator who’ve spent the past year jiggering the UK, the EU and the US by pretending they’re not part of the elite.

    It was a great honour to spend time with @realDonaldTrump. He was relaxed and full of good ideas. I'm confident he will be a good President. pic.twitter.com/kx8cGRHYPQ— Nigel Farage (@Nigel_Farage) November 12, 2016

    • Colonial Viper 42.1

      It seems that the Left is having deep problems with accepting the outcome of the Nov 8 election. What a surprise.

      • Bill 42.1.1

        That’s simply not true. Maybe you should work on those blanket assertions?

        • Colonial Viper

          Hillary supporters are already planning huge nationwide protests for Trump’s inauguration to capture the momentum of recent anti-Trump gatherings. That’s not sufficient evidence?

          • Bill

            You didn’t define who you were talking about beyond saying “the Left”. I know many people on the left who are not really very surprised that Trump won.

            Your follow up comment gets worse. It seems, by uncritically tying it back to your previous comment, you would have people believe that “the Left” is wholly defined as those who would be Hillary supporters.

            Again. Like your first comment, that’s patently untrue.

            And for many people protesting about Trump, it’s got nothing to do with ‘not accepting the outcome’. The outcome’s accepted and now there’s shit to be organising around. Y’know – it’s like democracy and all that jazz.

            Meanwhile. Ever cross your mind that MoveOn involving themselves (if true) might merely tend to ensure that protests stay within ‘acceptable’ bounds and fade away after an ‘acceptable’ period of time has passed?

            • Colonial Viper

              When large numbers of anti-Trump protestors are chanting/carrying signs saying “Not my President” I think it’s a very reasonable assumption to say that

              a) they are left wingers, many thousands of them
              b) they are refusing to accept the outcome of the election.

              Is it a free speech right to protest. Sure. Don’t break things.

              • Bill

                And if I had hoisted a “Not my PM” sign back in the days of Thatcher, would that have indicated that I ‘refused to accept the outcome of an election’ or simply that Thatcher didn’t represent me?

                Again. You making the blanket assertion that ” the Left is having deep problems with accepting the outcome of the Nov 8 election.” simply isn’t true.

                Nice to see your concern for property rights is suddenly trumping your concern for humanity – especially seeing as how I’ve not made any comment alluding to any kind of aggression or violence.

                Those sharks? Any left to jump?

                • Colonial Viper

                  My statement was that the left seems to be having deep problems accepting the results of the election.

                  You won’t clearly express an opinion to the contrary. Of course you are welcome to if you actually believe something contrary to my opinion.

                  So silly rhetorical argumentative games is what we have left to dance around.

                  • Bill

                    Not all of the left is having problems (deep or otherwise) accepting the results as your original and completely inclusive or encompassing original comment claimed.

                    Even if I just offer up myself as an illustrative example, without referring to anyone else anywhere else, it’s enough to demonstrate the absolute falseness of your assertion.

                    Some people coming from a left perspective probably are. But that’s not what you claimed.

                    Fucksake. It was a simple, utterly obvious and not at all contentious fact I was pointing out. Your inability to recognise it; to acknowledge it…your ‘doubling down’ on your original assertion…well, I’m just left shaking my head.

                    • rhinocrates

                      My apologies for being very rude to you earlier, Bill. I thought that you were on CV’s side. Obviously you’re not.

                      You’ll get over your bewilderment. Just imagine that you’re debating Eric Cartman and things become much clearer.

                    • Bill

                      I don’t go for ‘tribal allegiances’ Rhinocrates.

                      I prefer to base my opinions on stuff other than blind adherence to what ‘the mob’ reckons.

                      It’s too ‘pre-coffee’ for this,and maybe what I’m about to write will be ‘too much’ for some – but the recent history of interaction with CV by some here has arguably contributed to the creation of a bit of a right winger. Where does he go now? What doors are open? What pathways have been presented?

                      I’m going to be interested to see how others (and there will be others) who lose their infatuation with liberalism re-position politically – what their thoughts become and how they shift.

                      And I’m going to be very interested (and possibly really fucking depressed) to observe how those who’d seemingly presume themselves to be the gatekeepers of acceptable liberal thought/opinion, or ‘correct’ liberal thought/opinion treat them.

                      Mob, dog, castigate and ostracise?

      • joe90 42.1.2

        With Clinton on track to out poll the tiny fisted fascist by perhaps more than 2 million votes, the left has damn good reason to be outraged.

        btw, remember these?





        • rhinocrates

          I expect something like “Meh” and “I only bother with the big picture”, followed by some Escheresque logical twists to demonstrate that it’s all Killary’s fault.

          Anyway, you shouldn’t show pictures like that – you’ll hurt Cartman’s feelings.

        • Colonial Viper

          With Clinton on track to out poll the tiny fisted fascist by perhaps more than 2 million votes, the left has damn good reason to be outraged.

          I guess the Clinton camp hit new levels of genius there going to California so many times for million dollar Hollywood fundraisers.

          It really paid off for her with so many votes in California.

          Meanwhile in the count that matters, Trump got 306 electoral votes to Clinton’s anaemic 232.

          BTW did either Obama or Clinton run on policies of electoral reform?

          • rhinocrates

            Oh yes of course, “Look! Over there!” Forgot the obvious one.

          • joe90

            Trump got 306 electoral votes to Clinton’s anaemic 232.

            Voter suppression via disenfranchisement is such an effective tool.

            While a surge of unexpected Donald Trump supporters flipped some Rust Belt states red, voter suppression measures may have also contributed to a depressed Democratic turnout.


            “It’s undeniable that there is an effect [from new voting laws]. The people that enact these laws know what they’re doing,” said Gerry Hebert, the director of voting rights and redistricting at the Campaign Legal Center.



            • rhinocrates

              An old American tradition. And Trump actively encouraged voter intimidation.

              • Colonial Viper

                Except it was millions of Americans who had to hide the fact that they were voting Trump, due to Hillary bullyshaming.

                Worked out for the best, caught her team totally off guard.

                • joe90

                  Or institutionalised racism.

                  Ohio has a controversial practice of removing voters from the rolls who have not cast ballots in years. But just how many are deleted remains a mystery, raising questions about the care taken with the swing-state’s voter rolls…At best, these records reveal a lack of care by some election officials tracking voters taken off the rolls.

                  At worst, they point to a system of removing voters that’s far from uniform – meaning where you live could determine when, or if, your voter registration is deleted. And that could affect whose votes count, and whose don’t, in a critical battleground state that may determine the next president.


                  • rhinocrates

                    So instead of the Trump bogey of dead people voting for Clinton in the rigged election, live people disappeared from the roll.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I’m happy to wait for the outcome of any lawsuits, appeals and recounts.

                    • rhinocrates

                      With Giuliani tipped to be AG, not likely after Jan 20 at all.

                      While you’ve so often stated your distrust of the electoral system talking of the lizard people, sorry, “Deep State”, like Trump. Now apparently you think it’s free, open and fair?

                      No, you’re just resorting to the thug logic of “we won and who cares how.”

                      So that’s one lie…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      With Giuliani tipped to be AG, not likely after Jan 20 at all.

                      These appeals and recounts are state matters. I’ll be looking forward to what they have to say.

                    • rhinocrates

                      In a free open and fair system it would be, but you don’t believe that yourself. Up until the election you were obsessed with how the lizard people were deciding who would win. “Truth” for you is as it is for ol’ Orange – whatever suits you at the time.

                • rhinocrates


                  Doubleplusungoodspeak! Poor bullies being shamed like that. Like being fatshamed when really being a bully is just an honest expression of who you are. So unfair, so, so unfair. Freedom for bullies!

                  Yes, obviously the polls were wrong, underestimating America’s deep racial problem with the Neo-Nazi inspired groups acting out their fantasy of being an underground resistance.

                  That it was “For the best” that those poor oppressed people influenced the voting outcome tells us what we already know about you.

                  America has a racist problem and this election may force them to face up to it when the blood’s been shed.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    America has a racist problem and this election may force them to face up to it when the blood’s been shed.

                    Of course America has a racism problem. That’s why the Black Lives Movement was needed during Obama’s term.

                    Having said that, scores of US counties which voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012 flipped this time around and voted for Trump in 2016.

                    To me that’s not racism, that’s voting for the better candidate.

                    • But you support trumpasaurous so YAWN – what you think is not of any great note, fuck it prob just a Fox download to your phone, brainbox.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Yet you’ve been blithering on about the overriding importance of the white male voter who wanted their interests served exclusively, framing race as the crucial element.

                      Not that I expect consistency from you of course.

                      … and that’s the next lie.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Yet you’ve been blithering on about the overriding importance of the white male voter who wanted their interests served exclusively,

                      You’re welcome to your own delusions.

                      Meanwhile, scores of counties who voted for Obama in **both** 2008 and 2012 flipped for Trump in 2016. I don’t think all these voters suddenly turned racist.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Joe90 has presented evidence of disenfranchisement since voter protections have been gutted by a Repug dominated Congress when you were so concerned about lizard people tipping the election for Clinton.

            • rhinocrates

              Joe90, a nexus of links on vote rigging and voter suppression in favour of Tangerine Cockwomble.


              Lots of links within the article.



              Specifically, erasing African-American and Hispanic voters from the roll and switching off software protection in voting machines. As we know, Ohio was a vital swing state that suddenly turned Repug.

              Links to interviews:


              It’s pretty shocking how blatant the attempts to restrict African Americans from voting were and how Republican-appointed officials actively barred voter-protection, restricted the numbers of voting stations in African-American populated areas and ordered protective software turned off.

              A how-to guide on rigging:


              (Democracy Now is a progressive organisation that is no fan of Neoliberals Amy Goodman should be well-known here)

              • rhinocrates

                I’m left to wonder how many of the 50% or so who are blamed because they “didn’t vote” actually couldn’t vote.

              • joe90

                That, combined with a damned horse and cart system, suggests the land of the free isn’t really a democracy.

                If Congress wanted to keep the electoral college but make it fairer, there is a simple (but unlikely) solution: increase the size of the House of Representatives. There is nothing in the constitution mandating a particular size except that each member must represent at least 30,000 people (which puts an upper limit on the House of about 10,000 members). In fact, the House has been expanded repeatedly in the past as the nation grew. The most recent expansion was in 1911, when the U.S. population was about 93 million, so a representative had 212,000 constituents. With the current population of 293 million, a representative has 674,000 constituents. To bring this number back to its 1911 value, the House should be expanded to 1370 members. Since a state’s electoral vote is equal to its congressional representation, with 1370 House members, the effect of the 100 senators would be much smaller and the electoral votes would be almost proportional to population. To increase the size of the House, Congress would merely have to pass a law; the states would not be involved at all.


                • rhinocrates

                  It’s a plutocracy and in a plutocracy, your access to the law is limited by your wealth, so I don’t expect much to come of legal challenges funded by common people.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Ask the Clintons and their super pacs. They’re good for a few hundred million.

                    • rhinocrates

                      “Look! Over there!”

                    • Colonial Viper

                      if the legal challenges by Clinton’s supporters need money to succeed, then just ask her.

                      She has hundreds of millions she can access.

                      Money is no object.

                    • What a dick comment as usual. Boring, repetitive as well as cowardly – no wonder you won big with dickydon. You just don’t have a shred of dignity or courage left do you. Lol I know, why not get your mates to reply to this comment, they could even use your handle lol

  36. joe90 43

    Conservative radio host Laura Ingraham under consideration to be Trump's WH press secretary https://t.co/5DXIBss0st pic.twitter.com/Ra4iv6NfY6— The Hill (@thehill) November 13, 2016

    You have to admit, Miss Laura ticks all the boxes.

    On her August 26 radio broadcast, Ingraham used an effect that sounded like gunshot to cut off a recording of the speech given by civil rights leader Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) at the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s “I Have A Dream” speech. Lewis’ skull was infamously fractured by a state trooper on “Bloody Sunday” in Selma, AL, in 1965, and many civil rights activists — including Martin Luther King, Jr. — were literally silenced by assassins’ bullets during the civil rights movement of the 1960s and ’70s.


  37. joe90 44

    Cenk Uygur, another deep cover rat-fucker?.

    The Young Turks, a network of popular online video channels, has raised $4 million from Roemer, Robinson, Melville & Co., LLC, a private equity fund led by former Louisiana Governor Buddy Roemer. RRM can increase its investment to as much as $8 million.

    Roemer, a Republican,, has invested in a network whose CEO and co-founder, Cenk Uygur, previously hosted a show on MSNBC and Current TV, the network backed by former Vice President Al Gore. Though Uygur hosted shows on two TV networks with liberal perspectives, his political shows upbraid those on both sides of the aisle for being in the pocket of corporations and for being too meek or corrupt to enact meaningful reform.


  38. mauī 45

    Rachel Maddow after reading a couple of thousand comments from the Standard’s US Election posts…

  39. Paul 46

    Anti-Trump Protesters Are Tools of the Oligarchy

    “Who are the anti-Trump protesters besmirching the name of progressives by pretending to be progressives and by refusing to accept the outcome of the presidential election? They look like, and are acting worse than, the “white trash” that they are denouncing.

    I think I know who they are. They are thugs for hire and are paid by the Oligarchy to delegitimize Trump’s presidency in the way that Washington and the German Marshall Fund paid students in Kiev to protest the democratically elected Ukrainian government in order to prepare the way for a coup.

    The organization, change.org, which claims to be a progressive group, but might be a front, along with other progressive groups, for the Oligarchy, is destroying the reputation of all progressives by circulating a petition that directs the electors of the Electoral Collage to annul the election by casting their votes for Hillary. Remember how upset progressives were when Trump said he might not accept the election result if there was evidence that the vote was rigged? Now progressives are doing what they damned Trump for saying he might do under certain conditions.

    The Western presstitutes used the protests in Kiev to delegitimize a democratically elected government and to set it up for a coup. The protest pay was good enough that non-Ukrainians came from nearby countries to participate in the protest in order to collect the money. At the time I posted the amounts paid daily to protesters. Reports came in to me from Eastern and Western Europe from people who were not Ukrainian but were paid to protest as if they were Ukrainians.

    The same thing is going on with the Trump protests. CNN reports that “for many Americans across the country, Donald Trump’s victory is an outcome they simply refuse to accept. Tens of thousands filled the streets in at least 25 US cities overnight.” This is the exact reporting that the Oligarchy desired from its presstitutes and got.”


    • joe90 46.1

      Yeah, because folk only get angry when they’re told to get angry.

    • Bill 46.2

      Nutty fucking bullshit report.

      Remember how it was going to be necessary or desirable to organise and protest from day one of a Hillary Clinton victory? So, the same thing is happening but without the bullshit schisms that could have marked protest against a Clinton Presidency (eg – “you’re” aligning with the Tea Party or the “you’re” being driven by misogyny – all running alongside a ‘give it six months’ plea, that some would undoubtedly have come out with.)

      If MoveOn are involved, it’s a bad thing only because they will attempt to keep protests ‘safe’ and within bounds with a limited trajectory and tightly prescribed aims.

      Just been reflecting on a very quick look at the broad Guardian coverage. It’s essentially how bad Trump is (fine), but beyond that it’s simply decrying the rise of a new facet of power within the establishment.

      Nothing too much about protests or why people are getting onto the streets. And to reiterate. Protests would also have been a ‘go to’ if Clinton had won.

      Liberals. Defending the establishment ‘since forever’.

  40. rhinocrates 47

    Psychological studies linking a strong sense of disgust with authoritarianism and xenophobia. It would explain Trumps negative obsession with menstruation and women’s bodies overall, his fear of the decay of his own body (that… hair, that… tan) and CV’s own disgust without any sign of empathy (indeed he shows fierce resentment of the very idea of empathy and focusses on his own feelings).



    On to the studies – most are behind paywalls and you can only access them if you’re attached to a university, but the abstracts are indicative.






    Goebbel’s propaganda linked Jews with rats and filth of course and as a classic bit of trolling, some pranksters wrote in the comments of the Daily Mail using quotes from Goebbels and replacing ‘Jew’ with ‘migrant’ and collected high approval ratings.

    In the field of literature, I remember a very striking section of Milan Kundera’s The Unbearable Lightness of Being which looked at fascist aesthetics and its pathology of hygiene. (Theweleit, who I’ve mentioned before cites a German fascist of the immediate pre-Nazi period terrified of his own dirty socks).

    And of course, there are no toilets on Planet Key.

    Overall, the real ‘Voight-Kampf Test’ (remember Judith Collins being trolled over that?) is whether upon being confronted with an image of suffering or viscera, do you get goose bumps, in which case your mirror neurons are firing, or do you feel disgust?

    Personally, I am very fond of spiders. Make of that what you will.

  41. joe90 48

    I guess one should go long on railways and boxcar manufacturers, too.

    Private prison stocks had been on the decline as the Department of Justice sought to decrease their use of private prisons after multiple high profile investigations revealed corruption and mistreatment of inmates in the industry. However, after Trump’s explosive rhetoric was validated by his election, the stocks of Core Civic and the Geo Group rose 43% and 21%, respectively. These are two major private prison companies which are already utilized by the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE).


  42. joe90 49

    Another day, another campaign device revealed.

    House Speaker Paul Ryan said Sunday that he and President-elect Donald Trump are “not planning” to pursue mass deportations of undocumented immigrants, despite Trump’s vow to the contrary during the campaign.


  43. joe90 50

    Iranian dude makes his point.

    Trump supporters are like Sunni Muslims who shout unity and respect, but with one catch: its unity on THEIR terms and convenience. No thanks— دانیال (@danja84) November 13, 2016

  44. joe90 51

    Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says

    The tiny fisted fascist has appointed an antisemitic white nationalist as his chief strategist and senior counselor


    The whole Trump transition team news release, interestingly, places Bannon before Priebus. pic.twitter.com/tpX5AZTxCr— Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) November 13, 2016

    Let us be clear. The hiring of Steve Bannon as a WH policy adviser is exactly the same as hiring David Duke. Please don't normalize this.— Charles P. Pierce (@ESQPolitics) November 13, 2016

  45. rhinocrates 52

    Shriekback: Glory Bumps

  46. Tweet – tired of seeing an ape in heels.

    Yep the racists are coming out of their sewers. This time is dangerous. A local mayor says to that tweet – made my day.

    For those who wondered what the rise of Nazism was like – start looking and listening. For those who wondered what they would have done – what are you doing now?

    And for those who pretend – you won’t be forgotten by history, if their is any history after all this.

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