Post-US election post

Written By: - Date published: 6:07 am, November 21st, 2016 - 125 comments
Categories: us politics - Tags:

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, check them out, usual rules apply there too.

125 comments on “Post-US election post”

  1. ropata 1

    A few tweets and links from yesterday

    Monk: *writing bible* lord, the end is signaled by trumpets?

    God: I said Trump Pence

    Monk: Right. Trumpets.

    God: Fine. They'll get it.— Eldge (@Sickayduh) October 30, 2016

    400k Americans died in the 40s to destroy fascism. We remember them as "the greatest generation." I wonder what they'll call our generation?— Existential Comics (@existentialcoms) November 13, 2016

    "Appeasement is lazy evil". @RaybonKan is right, get ready for a shit storm https://t.co/yt2rebfyyM pic.twitter.com/Sx8nPj0Lf2— ɥɔsǝdɐd qoɹ (@ropata) November 16, 2016

  2. Siobhan 2

    Excellent speech from the man who should be President. Addressed to Obama….

    http://www.democracynow.org/2016/11/16/stop_the_dakota_pipeline_bernie_sanders

    But instead we have Trump.

  3. rhinocrates 3

    Some desperately needed humour:

    http://www.advocate.com/comedy/2016/11/16/randy-rainbows-first-post-election-interview-here

    Personally I think that he’s unkind to the Addams family.

  4. Macro 5

    JFK rang up Trump (as you do) to congratulate him on his win.
    Wikileaks got hold of the conversation, and has just released the transcript!
    Apparently Trump only said four words:
    “Who”,
    “Where”, and
    “You’re Fired!”

  5. joe90 7

    Baby steps….

    Trump surrogates are already citing Japanese internment camps from WW II as "precedent" for Muslim registry pic.twitter.com/DVnjtom0mc— Brendan Karet (@bad_takes) November 17, 2016

  6. You put your address in the wrong place. 8

    Pence’s home state fundies have started lining up their ducks to challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    An Indiana lawmaker plans to introduce a bill that would outlaw and criminalize all forms of abortion in Indiana.

    State Rep. Curt Nisly said Wednesday he will file so-called “Protection at Conception” legislation when the General Assembly convenes in January.

    Under his proposal, all abortions would be a crime and prosecutors could file charges against those who participate in the procedure.

    […]

    In situations in which a high-risk pregnancy endangers a woman’s life, he said the proposal would demand that a doctor try to save both mother and child.

    “The idea here is always, always try to save the baby,” Nisly said.

    Conservative activists emboldened by President-elect Donald Trump’s decisive victory in Indiana are already rallying behind the measure. While they acknowledge the proposal would face legal challenges, they’re holding onto hope that the composition of the bench could change before the case reaches the Supreme Court.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/16/total-abortion-ban-proposed-indiana/93954670/

    • The Lone Haranguer 8.1

      Its interesting that those who oppose abortion (for reasons of morality/conservatism particularly) are not prepared to put their hands into their own wallets to help raise those “abortion survivor” children in such a way that they have a chance to excel educationally, socially, and financially.

  7. Siobhan 9

    “The age of Obama was the last gasp of neoliberalism. Despite some progressive words and symbolic gestures, Obama chose to ignore Wall Street crimes, reject bailouts for homeowners, oversee growing inequality and facilitate war crimes like US drones killing innocent civilians abroad.

    Rightwing attacks on Obama – and Trump-inspired racist hatred of him – have made it nearly impossible to hear the progressive critiques of Obama. The president has been reluctant to target black suffering – be it in overcrowded prisons, decrepit schools or declining workplaces. Yet, despite that, we get celebrations of the neoliberal status quo couched in racial symbolism and personal legacy. Meanwhile, poor and working class citizens of all colors have continued to suffer in relative silence.

    In this sense, Trump’s election was enabled by the neoliberal policies of the Clintons and Obama that overlooked the plight of our most vulnerable citizens….

    For us in these times, to even have hope is too abstract, too detached, too spectatorial. Instead we must be a hope, a participant and a force for good as we face this catastrophe.”

    -Cornel West.

    I’m too computer illiterate to figure out how to do bold, so I shall just say Please Note the last paragraph, which I think is excellent.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election

    • ropata 9.1

      +1 Fantastic piece.
      Cornel West is one guy I agree with 100%…
      & if I find myself disagreeing with him on something, I am probably wrong 🙂

      This lethal fusion of economic insecurity and cultural scapegoating brought neoliberalism to its knees. In short, the abysmal failure of the Democratic party to speak to the arrested mobility and escalating poverty of working people unleashed a hate-filled populism and protectionism that threaten to tear apart the fragile fiber of what is left of US democracy. And since the most explosive fault lines in present-day America are first and foremost racial, then gender, homophobic, ethnic and religious, we gird ourselves for a frightening future.

      What is to be done? First we must try to tell the truth and a condition of truth is to allow suffering to speak. For 40 years, neoliberals lived in a world of denial and indifference to the suffering of poor and working people and obsessed with the spectacle of success. Second we must bear witness to justice. We must ground our truth-telling in a willingness to suffer and sacrifice as we resist domination. Third we must remember courageous exemplars like Martin Luther King Jr, who provide moral and spiritual inspiration as we build multiracial alliances to combat poverty and xenophobia, Wall Street crimes and war crimes, global warming and police abuse – and to protect precious rights and liberties.

      Prophetic words.

    • Infused 9.2

      Obama was fucking useless.

      Obama care is costing more.
      Lead wars (with Clinton at his side) in Syria and Libia. And tried to incite the overthrow of Assad using a fake chemical weapons attack
      Did the stupid Iran deal

      He will go down as one of the most useless presidents.

  8. Andre 11

    Trump is going to stop wasting money on stupid wars in the Middle East. Oh yeah. That’s why this guy is a top contender for Secretary of State.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-bolton-regime-change-iran-secretary-of-state_us_582df81be4b030997bbe0d67?section=us_politics

  9. McFlock 12

    Fuck

    In response to trump’s victory, a German politician calls for independent nuclear deterrent by EU. Basically expanding british and french capabilities with EU money. I’ve never heard of the guy, but after a quick google he doesn’t seem to be a fringe nobody in german politics.

    While not technically a hit to non-proliferation, making an independent combined EU project (like the Typhoon) presents another series of issues:

    1) it increases the EU stockpiles and takes them from a token deterrent into a significant geopolitical complication – would it make unilateral EU use more likely if they have a system less dependent on US support?

    2) how it would work with brexit is another matter

    3) would the next upgrade to the UK fleet be more compatable with eu than usa? Is it a hit to that “special relationship”?

    • rhinocrates 12.1

      Not just the EU.

      http://gentleseas.blogspot.co.nz/2016/03/trumps-moderation-and-japans-nuclear.html

      Can’t cut and paste, but in essence, Japan has much of the infrastructure needed for a nuclear force, including the ability to produce plutonium and dual-use rockets used for satellite launches that are solid-fueled, and closely modelled on the American MX ICBM

      Japan is constitutionally prevented from developing offensive forces and is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but there’s long been pressure to change that, intensifying in recent years even before the election of Fuckface von Clownstick. There seems to be a “just in case” theoretical capability, pluse the industrial ability to make it real.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/fukushima-anniversary/japan-has-nuclear-bomb-basement-china-isnt-happy-n48976

      Solid fuel rockets are rugged, give high acceleration and can be launched at short notice as they are already pre-fueled. They play a minor role in civil applications (as strap-on additions to the first stage usually) because they are comparatively inefficient, while liquid fuels require lengthy fuelling immediately prior to launch, which makes them militarily useless.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_(rocket)

    • rhinocrates 12.2

      The UK’s strategic nuclear deterrent is submarine-based. It is currently developing a new Dreadnought class (to replace the current Vanguard class) along with the Americans with their Columbia class (successor to the current Ohio).

      It is deeply dependent on America. Virtually identical missiles and warheads will be used (as previously). The missile tubes come in modules of four and test articles have already been constructed. The Dreadnoughts will have 12 (down from 16) and the Columbias will have 16 (down from 24).

      http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2016/october/21/161021-famous-warship-name-restored-for-first-successor-boat

      I don’t expect more to be funded above the four boats planned for the Royal Navy – the programme has been very controversial and very expensive.

      The only other European nuclear power at present is France, with their own submarine-based missiles.

      In addition, the UK and France are collaborating on a large UAV strike aircraft capable of carrying tactical nuclear weapons. BAE Systems (which is building the Dreadnoughts) and Dassault are the industrial partners and have already flown demonstrators with stealth capabilities (called Taranis and Neuron).

      Germany has expressed a desire for a strike aircraft to follow on from the ageing Tornado and may buy into the French-British system.

      Many defence, political and industrial agreements between European (geographically-speaking) exist outside the structure of NATO and the EU. Brexit is irrelevant to these individual programmes.

      So far there has been no significant, permanent EU armed force, only temporary co-operation. NATO does that job. The main problem would be that EU-member nations have many separate treaties and alliances and fellow nations would be reluctant to be drawn into one nation’s conflicts through the EU.

      That’s as thing stand now of course. What happens next will develop from that base.

  10. rhinocrates 13

    On how “identity” has become a sneer term for some on the paleoleft who need to be taught how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

    (Inevitably refers to the US election but not solely – Australia is covered also. Relevant to the appropriation of class politics by demagogues worldwide and the challenge facing the progressive left as a result)

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/18/class-and-identity-politics-are-not-mutually-exclusive-the-left-should-use-this-to-its-benefit?CMP=soc_567

    It’s easy for rightwing populists and their journalistic supporters to portray trickle-down campaigns for social justice as elitist and snobby and irrelevant to ordinary people. But what would be the consequences of an anti-sexist campaign that oriented to the bottom of society rather than to the top?

    Think, for instance, of the provision of quality, affordable childcare – a key demand of the women’s liberation movement in the 70s. For the rich, of course, childcare’s a non-issue. If you’ve got the money, it’s always been available. But for working class women, decent childcare can be life changing, removing a major source of social stress and bringing to an end a common form of drudgery.

    It’s not hard, then, to see the outline of a class-based campaign against sexism, one that would unite ordinary women and men for a demand that would materially change family life for the majority of society.

  11. joe90 14

    Apparently Trump’s fine with same sex marriage but he’s certainly looking to make LGBT Americans second class citizens in their own country.

    The First Amendment Defense Act is the nuclear version of the so-called “religious freedom” laws that have appeared across the country, most infamously in Mike Pence’s Indiana. The Republican House will surely pass it, the Senate will pass it unless it’s filibustered by Democrats, and President-elect Trump has promised to sign it.

    If it becomes law, FADA will be the worst thing to happen to women and LGBT people in a generation.

    […]

    But those stories are a red herring. The more important cases are ones like hospitals refusing to treat LGBT people (or their children), pharmacies refusing to fill birth control prescriptions, businesses refusing to offer health benefits to a same-sex partner, and state-funded adoption agencies refusing to place kids with gay families. Underneath the rhetorical BS, that’s what FADA is all about.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/16/the-gop-s-anti-lgbt-anti-women-religious-freedom-law-on-steroids.html

  12. joe90 15

    So, foreign leaders will be forced to take a punt and guess whether or not Trump means what he says.

    Katsuyuki Kawai, an adviser to Abe sent to set up the Trump meeting, said he had spoken to several Trump advisers since arriving in Washington on Monday.

    “I have been meeting with so many top aides to the president-elect and also I have been meeting with the very distinguished senators and congressmen and they unanimously told me that we don’t have to take each word that Mr. Trump said publicly literally.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-newsnow-japan-idUSKBN13C1E3

  13. joe90 16

    I guess the Korea Herald editorial calling for Seoul to take operational control of South Korean forces and begin uranium enrichment is all part of know nothing’s Trump peace dividend.

    South Korea should prepare for Commander In Chief Trump

    In times of crisis, victory favors the prepared.

    It is time for South Korea to prepare for the US President-elect Donald Trump to become the US commander in chief.

    […]

    Secondly, South Korea should begin uranium enrichment to develop weapons grade plutonium, by first abrogating the agreement for cooperation between the government of the Republic of Korea and the government of the United States of America concerning peaceful uses of nuclear energy.

    South Korea could mirror Japan by stockpiling enriched nuclear material to be used in a crash program for nuclear weapons development in a time of crisis. This is prudence not proliferation. South Korea could remain a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, while being one more state that has nuclear weapons potential but chooses not to weaponize.

    http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2016/11/16/0301000000AEN20161116000700320.html

  14. joe90 17

    The outsider’s draining the swamp, so his Wall Street owners can feather their own fucking nests, again.

    Donald Trump, the candidate, was blunt: “Hedge fund guys are getting away with murder.”

    But Donald Trump, the President-elect, is going a bit easier on the hedge funders — to huzzahs from the industry.

    In Trump, hedge-fund types are finally getting their day in Washington. One of their own, Steven Mnuchin, is even a contender for Treasury secretary.

    […]

    “That nonsense is ending: the anti-banking cabal and the screed of hatred for people that live on Wall Street,” Anthony Scaramucci, a well-known money manager who is on the transition team, said last week following Trump’s victory.

    […]

    Rebekah Mercer, the daughter of hedge-fund magnate Robert Mercer, is on Trump’s transition team. The elder Mercer’s Renaissance Technologies has been trying to resolve a multi-billion-dollar tax dispute with the Internal Revenue Service. Carl Icahn, the corporate-raider-turned-activist-investor, has also backed Trump, hoping the candidate will rein in Environmental Protection Agency rules, which he says harm refiners like CVR Refining LP, where he has a controlling stake. His wife, Gail, has been named to the inauguration team.

    Financial-industry executives are pressing Trump to roll back a range of regulations that they say throttle business. A prime target is the post-crisis Dodd-Frank Act, which proponents say makes the financial industry safer. Others include rules requiring investment professionals to put their clients’ interest before their own when giving retirement advice.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-17/mr-hedge-fund-goes-to-washington-looking-for-ally-in-trump?

  15. Andre 18

    Draining the swamp. So he can scoop up the bottom-feeders.

    “The man who President-elect Donald Trump will nominate as the 84th attorney general of the United States was once rejected as a federal judge over allegations he called a black attorney “boy,” suggested a white lawyer working for black clients was a race traitor, joked that the only issue he had with the Ku Klux Klan was their drug use, and referred to civil rights groups as “un-American” organizations trying to “force civil rights down the throats of people who were trying to put problems behind them.” ”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-attorney-general-jeff-sessions-racist-remarks_us_582cd73ae4b099512f80c0c2?cn5id4ygk5rf9lik9

  16. joe90 19

    Trump’s preferred National Security Advisor might be lucky to make it through confirmation hearings.

    .

    Retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, President-elect Donald Trump’s preferred choice for National Security Advisor, was running a company that was lobbying on behalf of foreign clients even as he was receiving classified intelligence briefings during the campaign.
    The revelation comes as the Trump camp has taken a series steps to curb the involvement of lobbyists in the presidential transition efforts.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-national-security-advisor/index.html?

    Seems Flynn is a fan of MGTOW…….

    Here's our new Nat Sec Adviser boosting an alt-right icon who talks about creating "super-sperm" that the ladies supposedly can't resist pic.twitter.com/Xwb8Lc2kSs— Sohrab Ahmari (@SohrabAhmari) November 18, 2016

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/kfile-flynn-tweets/index.html

    …..and he makes mistakes, too.

    Retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn accused presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton of corruption in cahoots with Jewish people on Twitter on Sunday, in a message he promptly deleted.

    […]

    Flynn wrote that “the corrupt Democratic machine will do and say anything” to get Clinton elected. “This is a new low,” he said, retweeting a message that read: “Not anymore, Jews. Not anymore.”

    He has since apologized for the retweet, calling it “a mistake.”

    http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Donald-Trump/General-Flynn-responds-to-Russia-accusation-with-anti-Semitic-tweet-462256

    • dukeofurl 19.1

      Except you are totally wrong.
      Presidents Whitehouse staff are NOT confirmed by Senate

      • joe90 19.1.1

        So, I’m be overly optimistic. Perhaps you’d like to weigh in on the the boil on my arse, too.

        • dukeofurl 19.1.1.1

          Optimistic?
          The only bit of your own opinion apart from cut and paste is wrong.
          Your response is nonsense as well.

          Post Truth World, meet one its foot soldiers

  17. joe90 20

    Know nothing’s Trump peace dividend – an all out assault on civil liberties through increased surveillance and human rights abuses as policy via indefinite detention, black sites and torture.

    And drone strikes, lots and lots of drone strikes.

    President-elect Donald Trump has tapped Republican Rep. Mike Pompeo of Kansas to head the Central Intelligence Agency, putting a hawkish lawmaker who favors brutally interrogating detainees and expanding the American prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in charge of America’s premier spy agency.

    […]

    But Pompeo’s extremely hawkish views on critical national security issues, such as his support for keeping open the US prison at Guantanamo Bay; his defense of brutal CIA interrogation practices like waterboarding and “rectal feeding”; and his overwhelming focus on the dire threat of “radical Islamic terrorism” — all positions closely aligned with those of President-elect Trump and his new national security adviser, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn — suggest he is not likely to be a particularly sobering or restraining force on the president-elect, particularly when it comes to controversial policies like torture and drone strikes.

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/18/13676756/mike-pompeo-trump-pick-cia-director

  18. Pasupial 21

    CGP Grey’s excellent videos on the Electoral College have been updated (the link is to 2011’s part 2: “The Trouble with the Electoral College”, but you easily can get the other links from there – you just need to watch this one first for the others to make any sense). If you too have been having trouble explaining this archaic hodge-podge of a system to others, and online sources have proven impenetrably technical, then let stick-figures do the talking:

  19. joe90 23

    Trump’s America. (video inside)

    Learn to defend against a bigot grabbing your hijab from behind. pic.twitter.com/up0QicbLHo— Hijabi Queens (@HijabiQueens_) November 18, 2016

    • weka 24.1

      That’s intense.

      • Karen 24.1.1

        It may seem exaggerated but unfortunately I fear it is not. I like her line at the end:

        “If you are brave, stand up for others. If you cannot be brave – and it is often hard to be brave – be kind”.

        • weka 24.1.1.1

          I don’t think she’s exaggerating 🙁 I follow her on twitter, esp through BLM, she seems solid in her analyses. We don’t know how this is going to turn out, because there are so many variables, but I don’t think the intent of Trump and his people is in dispute.

          Great last line.

  20. joe90 25

    Trump’s AG nominee.

    In the Democratic primary of September 1984, FBI agents hid behind the bushes of the Perry County post office, waiting for Turner and fellow activist Spencer Hogue to mail 500 absentee ballots on behalf of elderly black voters. When Turner and Hogue left, the feds seized the envelopes from the mail slots. Twenty elderly black voters from Perry County were bused three hours to Mobile, where they were interrogated by law-enforcement officials and forced to testify before a grand jury. Ninety-two-year-old Willie Bright was so frightened of “the law” that he wouldn’t even admit he’d voted.

    In January 1985, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, the 39-year-old US Attorney for the Southern District of Alabama, charged Turner, his wife Evelyn, and Hogue with 29 counts of mail fraud, altering absentee ballots, and conspiracy to vote more than once. They faced over 100 years in jail on criminal charges and felony statutes under the VRA—provisions of the law that had scarcely been used to prosecute the white officials who had disenfranchised blacks for so many years. The Turners and Hogue became known as the Marion Three. (This story is best told in Lani Guinier’s book Lift Every Voice.)

    https://www.thenation.com/article/jeff-sessions-trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-is-a-fierce-opponent-of-civil-rights/

    • Macro 25.1

      But to defend a man facing rape charges because the Court directs to, is absolutely heinous!

      /sarc

  21. joe90 26

    Trump’s AG nominee.

    Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), one of Donald Trump’s staunchest supporters and most visible surrogates, said that he does not consider the behavior Trump described in a 2005 video, in which he brags about physically forcing himself on women, to be sexual assault, a comment that drew swift blowback from critics.

    The Weekly Standard reported that Sessions made the remark in the post-debate spin room in St. Louis on Sunday night.

    “This was very improper language, and he’s acknowledged that,” Sessions said, according to the Weekly Standard.

    The publication followed up: “But beyond the language, would you characterize the behavior described in that as sexual assault if that behavior actually took place?”

    Sessions replied: “I don’t characterize that as sexual assault. I think that’s a stretch. I don’t know what he meant —”

    “So if you grab a woman by the genitals, that’s not sexual assault?” asked the reporter.

    “I don’t know. It’s not clear that he — how that would occur,” Sessions replied.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/10/trump-supporter-sen-jeff-sessions-reportedly-said-behavior-trump-described-in-2005-video-is-not-sexual-assault/?outputType=accessibility&nid=menu_nav_accessibilityforscreenreader

  22. rhinocrates 27

    Post Trump, stocks in US arms companies have surged (in other news, the sea has been observed to be large, blue and wobbly):

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/incoming-what-watch-trump-administration

  23. Macro 29

    God! The US is going to be a fucken disaster when he lets all those harebrained idiots out! One can only hope that there are still some sensible and responsible Rebublicans left in the Senate and House to give some restraint to their brainfarts, but somehow I doubt it. The US, and lets face it, the rest of the world to some extent, is going to be a cot case after this “administration”. That is, if they allow the herd to unelect them. I can see tyrant and dictatorship clearly on the horizon.

  24. Karen 30

    Well, all white supremacist and neo-nazi groups couldn’t be happier with Trump’s picks for key positions. It’s like a dream come true evidently.

    https://thinkprogress.org/white-nationalists-on-trumps-attorney-general-pick-it-s-like-christmas-caf3a87353f5#.c3635w5sh

  25. joe90 31

    Vile people.

    Here's Ivanka saying advantage itself is an imaginary concept because she, Ivanka, had to go to school pic.twitter.com/4vYcyqFNok— Jia Tolentino (@jiatolentino) November 18, 2016

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxk0uKHW8AAmPMw.jpg

  26. TheExtremist 32

    The new American Attorney General – please take a bow:

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57fbb902e4b068ecb5e06988?

  27. KJT 33

    Brian Tamaki is wrong.

    The Kaikoura quakes were Gods punishment for electing Trump.

    Unfortunately, God was educated at a US charter school and thought New Zealand is part of rural USA.

    • Pasupial 33.1

      Well, to be fair, our PM does act like; “New Zealand is part of rural USA”, so the mistake is understandable.

  28. Red 34

    Waaa waaa get over it trump won fair and square, the bleating going on here is worse than at childcare Bernie would have done no better, probably worse than Hills, the US where hardly going to vote in an old socialist howling at the moon

    • TheExtremist 34.1

      I don’t think anyone is bleating that Trump didn’t win fair and square. It’s now about what he is going to do as president.

      • Red 34.1.1

        It will be fine

        • TheExtremist 34.1.1.1

          Unless you want an abortion.

        • Pasupial 34.1.1.2

          Is your pseudonym derived from the Square from where your instructions issue, Red? However, even if it’s not your native language, you might want to brush up on your English – at the moment it just comes across as gibberish. Reading the other comments before typing helps too.

  29. Pasupial 35

    This is a couple of days old, but I haven’t seen anyone else link to it. Rall is a fairly scathing cartoonist/ essayist who called the election for Trump way back before the debates. Though a lot of that is because he regards Clinton as a war criminal (which seems synonymous with ex-Secretary of State these days), but I’d argue that the only reason Trump isn’t yet is that he hasn’t had the chance:

    Barack Obama deported two million — more than any other president. Thousands of kids lost their parents. Yet demonstrations were few. Anglo solidarity was nowhere to be found. Same action, different reaction. Why? As we’ve seen under Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, progressives go to sleep when Democrats are in the White House.

    Trump will be deplorable. But as the unrest that followed his victory signals, he’ll have a salutary effect on American politics: Liberals will resist the same fascist horrors for which they’ve been making excuses under Obama (and would have continued to tolerate under Hillary Clinton).

    Ironically, their struggle will be made all the more challenging due to the fascist moves promulgated by Barack Obama, a president revered by liberals — but whose administration has been characterized by a stream of fascist policies.

    http://rall.com/2016/11/17/fascism-under-trump-began-with-obama

    Though the link tag would be better as; “fascism-under-trump-began-with-obama-bush-and every president since Carter (or even before that)”. Consider the prevalence of eagles and fasces in USA government iconography:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces#Fasces_in_the_United_States

    • Olwyn 35.1

      For the reasons you have broadly outlined, I think that Bernie Sanders has the right idea: (1) Renew the Democrats, root and branch, so as to end up with a party that does not abandon those who should be its constituents. (2) Support Trump (supposing he is serious) in opposing Wall St and harmful trade deals, raising the minimum wage, reducing the cost of medicine and similar. (3) Fight tooth and nail against Trump where he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc. policies.

      At the moment the seismic plates are moving fast on the political front. Some people want to laud Trump’s victory because at last someone has beaten the establishment, although Syriza has shown how short-lived that can be, even if true. Others see this stance as absolute heresy, since Trump stands for everything they hate. The danger from the first response lies with letting Trump bask in the glory of having defeated the establishment, even if he quietly succumbs to its demands and adds to its victims. The danger of the second is to run screaming from the scary-trumpy-Trump-thing straight into the establishment’s soothing embrace, so that an economic system that is failing so many ends up being reinforced.

      • Karen 35.1.1

        Olwyn, I agree with 1 and 3 but I am astonished by 2.

        This is a corrupt kleptocrat who refused to disclose his tax returns, whose record as an employer is appalling, whose charity foundation is a scam, who has put close members of his family in charge of his financial empire and has them along to meetings with foreign leaders, whose tax policy will increase the wealth of the top tier and make the bottom 25% pay more and you honestly think that any of the things you list in 2 are going to happen?

        How can you compare Syriza with Trump? And really – there are not just two options here. I find your last sentence really patronising and demeaning to all those of us who are actually terrified of the what a Trump victory could bring.

        • Olwyn 35.1.1.1

          All I am saying is, I agree with Bernie that sticking with the things that matter is crucial. And if Trump does keep promises that really do improve people’s lives, then it is not wrong to support him in that. You seem to be saying that he is not going to. Well, if that turns out to be the case, then Bernie of course will not support him at all. Here is one of several articles on this – note the conditional “if”:

          http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/

          • Bill 35.1.1.1.1

            I agree Olwyn.

            Sanders, Trump, Corbyn, SNP, Podemos, Farage, Syriza etc all ran or run on being anti-establishment.

            All have been or are vigourously opposed by the establishment.

            Some are more anti-establishment than others and some, unfortunately but predictably, will or would doubtless make the establishment look like a breath of fresh air.

            No programme that any of them will or would implement will be wholly good or wholly bad. Each will have good and bad elements Even where the over-arching framework is beyond the pale, any good thing, no matter how incidental or accidental should be supported. And the opposite is also true. Where the over-arching framework is progressive, blind loyalty ought not to see bad shit being supported.

            • Karen 35.1.1.1.1.1

              If you can put together that list of people and say they are linked by being anti-establishment then the term “ant-establishment” is too broad to be useful IMO.

              • Bill

                How so?

                We know roughly what we mean when we say ‘the establishment’, yes? Opposition to it can come from (very broad brush stroke coming up) a socialist left or a fascist right.

                So when someone claims to be ‘anti-establishment’ we first have to ask ourselves if they genuinely are, and then depending on the answer to that, we have to ask whether their change would entail a move towards some kind of fascism for the 21st C or some kind of socialism for the 21st C.

                And even when the only change on the table points towards a 21st C fascism, (arguably the case in the US) we’ve got to acknowledge that many people feel so ‘done over’ by past decades that they’ll take a punt on that change – any change – over voting to endure more of the same.

                And instead of stupidly blanket condemning those voters as red-necks or racists or whatever and seeking cover in some renewed political expression of the very establishment that’s just been rejected, we need to propose a better alternative.

                The establishment’s dead. The task of shaping the alternative is up for grabs.

        • Olwyn 35.1.1.2

          And I should add that my comparison of Syriza to Trump is a limited one – they both won elections from anti-establishment positions. I agree that their positions are in fact diametrically opposed.

      • Pasupial 35.1.2

        Olwyn
        About the only consolation I’ve seen from this election is that the Trump administration would require a supermajority to change the constitution, so any changes they make are likely to be reversible in the future. The provisional appointment of; Preibus, Sessions & Romney demonstrate that Trump’s claim to being anti-establishment is illusory.

        However tempting it might seem to start afresh, the USA system gives immense advantages to the two main parties. Renewing the Democratic party does seem the way to go. The choice between Dean and Ellison as DNC chair may be an early sign of how that is likely to go.

        Karen
        I think point 2 is paraphrasing something Sanders said about achieving what is still possible within the legislature. Rather than going the Republican/ Gingrich route of threatening to shut down the government when they don’t get their own way. I don’t think he used the phrase; “support Trump” though.

        • Olwyn 35.1.2.1

          Renewing the Democratic party does seem the way to go. I agree. My fear is that people will get so worried about Trump that they will end up accepting the continuation of the neoliberalism’s TINA doctrine. Which is why I am relieved at Bernie’s stance.

        • Andre 35.1.2.2

          It also seems a tiny consolation that there’s no longer any “Royal Family” members hanging around the Democrats waiting their turn at the top slot. That I can think of anyway. No Kennedys in the wings, Chelsea doesn’t look that way inclined (so far).

  30. greywarshark 36

    A informative speaker on radionz this morning on the trump election. Some of it will be known but still interesting to hear how they find their target voters and thoughts in general such as that Bernie Sanders might have given Trump a run for his money but for a couple of points against him, unlike Clinton who had a multitude of points against her.

    Horace ‘Chip’ Mann – Reflections of a Republican
    politics
    about 1 hour ago
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201824573

    Long-time Republican campaign strategist, Horace ‘Chip’ Mann talks to Wallace about why the recent US presidential campaign was unlike anything he’s ever seen before – and gives his perspective on… Audio

  31. Bill 37

    Politician enters a public space and people make their disapproval of him apparent. El Presidenti elect then castigates the public for ‘harassing’ his mate.

    Well. Since when did politicians get this notion of servile deference into their heads? Dear Donald Fuck…off.

    The tweets..
    “Our wonderful future V.P. Mike Pence was harassed last night at the theater by the cast of Hamilton, cameras blazing.This should not happen!”

    And…
    “The Theater must always be a safe and special place.The cast of Hamilton was very rude last night to a very good man, Mike Pence. Apologize!”

    Interesting that Pence walked into a place where his presence was only ever likely to raise hackles. That Trump follows it up with some holier than thou ‘poor victim’ bullshit doesn’t auger well if it’s the beginning of a pattern….first cast your potential victims in an unfavourable light. Then victimise.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/19/mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton-performance-then-hears-diversity-plea

  32. joe90 38

    A bit of a fix-up and this November 1964 essay could well have been written in November 2014.

    ;

    The basic elements of contemporary right-wing thought can be reduced to three: First, there has been the now-familiar sustained conspiracy, running over more than a generation, and reaching its climax in Roosevelt’s New Deal Obama Care, to undermine free capitalism, to bring the economy under the direction of the federal government, and to pave the way for socialism or communism. A great many right-wingers would agree with Frank Chodorov, the author of The Income Tax: The Root of All Evil, that this campaign began with the passage of the income-tax amendment to the Constitution in 1913.

    The second contention is that top government officialdom has been so infiltrated by Communists Muslims that American policy, at least since the days leading up to Pearl Harbor 9/11, has been dominated by men women who were shrewdly and consistently selling out American national interests.

    Finally, the country is infused with a network of Communist Progressive agents, just as in the old days it was infiltrated by Jesuit Communist agents, so that the whole apparatus of education, religion, the press, and the mass media is engaged in a common effort to paralyze the resistance of loyal Americans.

    http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/?single=1

  33. adam 39

    The one appointment which wipes the floor C.V.’s arguments about trump. Rep. Mike Pompeo at head if the CIA.

  34. joe90 40

    Meanwhile, in Scamelot DC, a blind trust runs an hotel……

    In the less than two weeks since Donald Trump’s victory in the presidential election, there have already been several news stories that illustrate how Trump’s new role atop the U.S. government will create conflicts of interest with his family businesses. The latest alarming example comes via the Washington Post, who report that about 100 foreign diplomats packed into a junior ballroom at the new Trump International Hotel in D.C. this week to drink Trump-brand champagne and hear a sales pitch for the new hotel. Unsurprisingly, a chief topic of discussion among the attendees so soon after Trump’s victory was, “how are we going to build ties with the new administration,” and one way to do that seemed more than clear:

    “Believe me, all the delegations will go [to Trump’s hotel],” said one Middle Eastern diplomat who recently toured the hotel and booked an overseas visitor. The diplomat said many stayed away from the hotel before the election for fear of a “Clinton backlash,” but that now it’s the place to be seen.

    In interviews with a dozen diplomats, many of whom declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak about anything related to the next U.S. president, some said spending money at Trump’s hotel is an easy, friendly gesture to the new president.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/diplomats-are-lining-up-to-do-business-at-trumps-d-c-hotel.html

    • Andre 40.1

      Not to mention how the Secret Service will be paying Trump to fly on his airplane while they’re protecting his kids.

      http://www.sltrib.com/home/4588470-155/how-trump-can-make-money-off

      Wonder if it will be like the way his campaign suddenly started paying a lot more to rent space in his tower once other people’s money started coming in?

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-campaign-rent_us_57bba424e4b03d51368a82b9

      • joe90 40.1.1

        He’s got a couple of months to square the hotel thing and then tax returns excepted, it’s going to be four long years of FOI requests.

        In an exclusive exchange with ThinkProgress, Richard Painter, a University of Minnesota law professor who previously served as chief ethics counsel to President George W. Bush, says that Trump’s efforts to do business with these diplomats is at odds with a provision of the Constitution intended to prevent foreign states from effectively buying influence with federal officials.

        The Constitution’s “Emoluments Clause,” provides that “no person holding any office of profit or trust under” the United States “shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.”

        The diplomats’ efforts in seek Trump’s favor by staying in his hotel “looks like a gift,” Painter told ThinkProgress in an email, and thus is the very kind of favor the Constitution seeks to prevent.

        https://thinkprogress.org/trump-poised-to-violate-constitution-his-first-day-in-office-george-w-bushs-ethics-lawyer-says-73e14789a935#.jz9mktdol

        Now that Donald Trump is President Elect of the United States, a whole new world of FOIA possibilities begins to open up. But first, some bad news.

        Now that Donald Trump is a federal employee, can we FOIA his tax returns from the IRS?

        Yes, there are a lot of documents you can get regarding government employees through the Freedom of Information Act. But, barring a massive reinterpretation of existing laws, their federal tax returns are not one of those documents.

        https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/nov/15/foiaing-trump-presidential-transition/

        • joe90 40.1.1.1

          Trump is the swamp.

          In the nine days since Donald Trump won the presidential election reports have surfaced that he considered seeking top secret clearances for his three oldest children, and in some instances their spouses – requests that would be unprecedented if true. Trump also seems to be standing by a plan to place his children in charge of the Trump Organization’s “blind trust,” an arrangement that could be riddled with potential conflicts of interest.

          The relationship is also cause for concern given previous disclosures that appear to show Trump using government contracts to enrich his children.

          Documents won three months ago in response to a FOIA appeal show that during Donald Trump’s re-development of the taxpayer-owned Old Post Office building in downtown D.C. into a luxury hotel, Trump “funneled money to his children through separate companies bearing each of the children’s names, and the document indicates that those companies did not invest money. Nevertheless, their stakes could earn the children a big chunk of any profits generated from the taxpayer-owned site.” BuzzFeed further noted when the story was originally reported in August that despite the fact the building is owned by the public, many of the key documents in the deal were heavily redacted, forcing BuzzFeed to file an appeal.

          https://nsarchive.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/foia-and-donald-trump-frinformsum-11182016/

  35. joe90 42

    This is how military command structures are undermined in banana republics.

    ;

    The heads of the Pentagon and the nation’s intelligence community have recommended to President Obama that the director of the National Security Agency, Adm. Michael S. Rogers, be removed.

    The recommendation, delivered to the White House last month, was made by Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., according to several U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

    […]

    The news comes as Rogers is being considered by President-elect Donald Trump to be his nominee for director of national intelligence to replace Clapper as the official who oversees all 17 U.S. intelligence agencies. In a move apparently unprecedented for a military officer, Rogers, without notifying superiors, traveled to New York to meet with Trump on Thursday at Trump Tower. That caused consternation at senior levels of the administration, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal personnel matters.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-and-intelligence-community-chiefs-have-urged-obama-to-remove-the-head-of-the-nsa/2016/11/19/44de6ea6-adff-11e6-977a-1030f822fc35_story.html

    • dukeofurl 42.1

      What do you mean ‘without notifying superiors’ ??
      hes a 4 star admiral they dont normally get their movements OK by anyone. ( they would normally have their working time scheduled quite closely, so if he goes to Trump Tower or goes to NZ it has to be fitted in)
      He seems to be head of a grab bag of cyber snoops so is highly qualified to move up.
      Whether its wise to promote him is different to saying ‘he didnt notify anybody’- which just shows the writers ignornace.

  36. joe90 43

    Here come the theocrats,

    I thought it was bad enough when Dr. Ben Carson, an evolution and climate change denier, was being considered as the next Secretary of Education. (His business manager Armstrong Williams later said Carson didn’t want the position because he “has no government experience” and would not want to “take a position that could cripple the presidency”… even though that didn’t stop him from campaigning to be the President.)

    Trump’s alternatives, however, are no better. The Associated Press reports that another possibility for Secretary of Education is Liberty University President Jerry Falwell, Jr., who recently met with Trump to discuss the role:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/11/20/creationist-jerry-falwell-jr-met-with-donald-trump-about-a-possible-dept-of-education-position/?

    • Andre 43.1

      Idiocracy, here we come.

      • adam 43.1.1

        Actually Andre I disagree, many of trumps appointments are very smart people. Case in point, Rep. Mike Pompeo, a very, very clever man. Nasty as a rattlesnake, and as vindictive as they come. But don’t call him and his ilk – dumb.

        • Andre 43.1.1.1

          You’re very unfair to rattlesnakes. Leave them alone and they won’t bother you. In fact, they’ll go out of their way to leave you alone if they become aware of you in time.

          But put Carson or Falwell in charge of education, and America will indeed be dumbed down.

          As for Trump’s other buddies, viciously cunning seems a better description than smart.

      • Garibaldi 43.1.2

        “Trump will destroy America, Clinton will destroy the world ” was a well known saying during the campaign. It may well be working , but only time will tell . I’m hoping it turns out that way.
        Don’t forget Obama has a lot of ‘undesirables’ in his team ie. it is not just Trump who “knows how to pick ’em”.

        • Andre 43.1.2.1

          In 2004, the war in Iraq was widely considered to increase Bush’s chances of re-election. Because Americans don’t like changing leaders during war, and that the WMDs was a lie hadn’t got much traction yet. I can’t think of any incumbent presidents fighting a war that lost their re-election bids.

          Do you think Trump’s team aren’t aware of that? Or that they would hesitate to trump up an excuse to start a war if they thought it would benefit them?

        • joe90 43.1.2.2

          I’m hoping it turns out that way.

          Trump’s line up of Islamophobic, misogynist, xenophobic, jingoistic, science denying religious fanatics as probable appointees mean women are going to be denied reproductive autonomy, an almost guaranteed all out assault on civil liberties through increased surveillance, widespread disenfranchisement of minority voters, registration and internment of religious groups and whole swathes of folk, LGBT, POC, anybody wearing religious garb, living in fear of an authoritarian theocratic regime.

          Out on the streets of America emboldened KKK, Neo-Nazis, and anti-Semitic White Nationalists are busy chanting hate and intolerance,

          And don’t for a moment think you and I will be unscathed by the policies of the Wall Street financiers Trump’s going appoint to to run the shop.

          Oh, and with the likes of Pompeo, Cotton, Bolton and Flynn running the war machine expect human rights abuses as policy via indefinite detention, black sites, torture, and drones, lots of drones, and regime changes.

          But you’re hoping it turns out that way.
          //

          • Karen 43.1.2.2.1

            Thanks for this joe90.

            I really didn’t know where to start when I read that line. Appalling.

            • dukeofurl 43.1.2.2.1.1

              Ignore him. hes a post truth fantasist.

              • joe90

                hes a post truth fantasist.

                Do tell…?

              • Garibaldi

                To joe90, dukeofoil and Karen.
                Are you trying to tell me that the Democrats are nice honest people? Are you claiming that American Foreign Policy is benevolent, or at worst, benign?
                Whatever the govt, Dems or Repubs, we get the same results – perpetual war from the greatest military machine the world has ever known.
                So why not break Americas back – I’m sick of their wars and their “exceptionalism” ie. they think the rules apply to everyone but them ,and that they are indispensable in this world.
                The sooner their hegemonic demands on the world are lessened the better.
                Their empire is dying and history teaches us to beware the dying empire. This is why I would like to see America pull its head in, rather than start a nuclear war.

                • dukeofurl

                  I would as a general point, not disagree with what you are saying about about their perpetual wars.

                • Karen

                  I have opposed US foreign policy for decades, under both Democratic and Republican governments, but if you think that Trump will bring an era of peace and love to US foreign policy then you are seriously deluded. The decisions will be different but they will be even more devastating. The chances of nuclear weapons being used has actually increased with Trump’s election – not by Russia or US but by others.

                  Your statement suggests you don’t care about the millions of people within the US who will suffer under his regime because of some kind of “we have to destroy the village in order to save it” theory. Putting neo-nazis into positions of power is horrific and I cannot understand anyone who has any sense of humanity thinking this is okay.

                  Have a read of this – it may make you reconsider your position.

                  http://whowhatwhy.org/2016/11/18/dark-view-flyover-country/

                  • Garibaldi

                    Karen, I beg to differ on your choice of Hillary as the” lesser of two evils “. The America Hillary wanted to continue promoting is sick to the core. It is candy coated corruption and anyone who thinks their model of democracy(not) is the way to go is nuts.
                    Also it is delusional to think that the current corporate market capitalism the west is wedded to will be capable of doing anything meaningful about CC. That, imo, is actually the main reason why we have to see the American model collapse and why I agreed with CV that Hillary was not really an option.
                    I have no idea what we will all have to suffer going through it all , but I would rather have a little more time than what Hillary was ‘offering'(ie. nuclear war).

          • Bill 43.1.2.2.2

            If all of that happens or begins to unfold with no, or only muted resistance, then …

            But if all that happens or begins to unfold and is met with an increasingly organised response, then it’s possible that the current way of the US is destroyed and a new, better US rises in its place.

            Not saying that’s what Garibaldi meant, but it’s what I’d be meaning if I said I hope it works out that way – ie – that “Trump will destroy America”.

            But whatever. A continuation of the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama trajectory is off the cards. That’s either going to turn out well or turn out badly depending on a number of factors, not least, how people respond. The future’s up for grabs folks. 😉

            • joe90 43.1.2.2.2.1

              The future’s up for grabs folks.

              Burn the fucking house down with everyone inside. No thanks.

              • Bill

                I concur. Burning the fucking house down with everyone inside would be kinda extreme and stupid. How about not burning the house down, but creating a better place for all of us while abandoning the house to its own inevitable collapse?

                edit. If it’s on fire, it’s the ‘owners’ who provided the match…Repugs, Dems, their stenographers as media outlets etc. Let it be and let it burn. But help get people out of that space.

              • Bill

                Something like this? That isn’t about swapping out the establishment’s elites (a la Trump, Farage and others) but that is genuinely anti-establishment – ie, that’s hopeful and empowering.

                One recent poll [Spanish] suggests that 21% of Mexicans would vote for a Zapatista candidate. And considering that no major media outlets have supported the idea (or the Zapatistas, for that matter), this figure is pretty impressive. It shows that at least a fifth of Mexican voters are ready to try something completely different.

                http://www.thecanary.co/2016/11/19/anti-establishment-politics-realer-before/

            • Garibaldi 43.1.2.2.2.2

              Thanks Bill.

  37. rhinocrates 44

    Grauniad Long Read on Thick Orange Puke’s appeal in (very) white midwestern US. It’s a good, in-depth article, but very narrow too. Indeed, the study was deliberately limited to that demographic for “clarity”. I’m not sure how useful that actually is. The writer clearly struggles to separate factors at play (such as drastically declining voter turnout, the disparity between the electoral college and popular votes and despite supposedly being a Satan-worshipping robot lizard on her deathbed, Clinton won the popular vote by a clear margin).

    https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2016/nov/16/how-trump-took-middletown-muncie-election

  38. rhinocrates 45

    Neo Nazis love their Orangegruppenfuhrer:

    http://www.npr.org/2016/11/20/502719871/energized-by-trumps-win-white-nationalists-gather-to-change-the-world?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

    Loyalists of the self-described white nationalist, alt-right movement from around the country gathered in D.C. Saturday afternoon, enthused by the election of Donald Trump and optimistic that their controversial, offensive views such as calling for a white, ethnocentric state were on the rise throughout the country.

      • Bill 45.1.1

        I’m getting a bit tired of these kind of reports already.

        Yes. A lot of people who voted for Trump are scum or just plain fucked. But why give them and their bullshit any coverage or oxygen, never mind this kind of facile nonsense?

        Where’s the fucking analysis from the liberal establishment on its own failings and on why so many people (not scummy) voted for Trump over a continuation of a Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Obama trajectory? (It’s not rocket science, so maybe simple acknowledgement as they step away into the shadows of history rather than any hand wringing bullshit analysis of the type I’ve seen)

        And why the implication that we all have a simple choice that boils down to a Trump or back to the way things were? Fuck that on both counts.

        • Olwyn 45.1.1.1

          Bryce Edwards seems to have started thinking about where to go from here. It was surprising to see this piece in the NZH – you would not have seen anything like it pre- US election: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11749955

        • Andre 45.1.1.2

          Everybody that got all starry-eyed and said fuck voting for either a slightly less crap or slightly more crap version of the status quo, vote for an ideal that’s got no chance of happening, needs the regular reminder that this is the entirely predictable consequence. If that’s too tough for you, I’m sure you can just scroll on past.

          If you really think there’s an alternative that’s got a chance of getting voted in by the electorate, go ahead and make the proposal, and build the groundswell. But I strongly suspect that if we gathered together all the people here on The Standard that seriously want to blow it all up and replace it with something dramatically different, there would be very little agreement on what that “something different” truly looked like. So until the fringe gets it’s shit together, variations on the status quo are the best we can realistically hope for.

          I’m aware you’ve made some proposals. But you may wish to consider this: politically I’m probably closer to you than at least 95% of the population, but in my opinion your free petrol proposal was so far away from what’s going to be acceptable to the general population that it’s not even worth engaging in the argument.

          • Bill 45.1.1.2.1

            Edited because although the first para in your comment bears no relation to anything I’ve said anywhere Andre, your comment comes around to attack some stuff I did say. So I’m guessing the first para is meant as a criticism of me too. Really dishonest of you. Anyway, back to original comment as it stood.

            I’ve said it before, but I think Gareth Morgan may well intend to ‘blow it all up’ by positioning as ‘anti-establishment’. What that would actually mean is open to all types of interpretation and agreement/disagreement.

            Limiting myself to the rest of the English speaking world –

            The SNP rode and continue to ride anti-establishment sentiments.
            Sanders got a lot of traction in the US.
            Corbyn is in the same vein.
            Trudeau (cynically?) tacked to the left of ‘The New Democratic’ Party and cleaned up in Canada.

            All the above is leaning leftwards.

            Then there’s Spain and Greece and, I just read today, Mexico, where avowedly anti-capitalist (not just anti-establishment) political movements have gained (sometimes lost again) or are gaining widespread support/momentum.

            As for the petrol posts. I never claimed those posts constituted proposals that would be adopted by any of today’s NZ political parties. I merely pointed out what was possible in terms of thinkable scenarios that took reality into account and that could achieve results in line with what the science of climate change says is necessary. Meanwhile, I haven’t seen anything from anywhere that would even come close to delivering the cuts we need in fossil related energy use. Nothing.

            Have you?

            • Andre 45.1.1.2.1.1

              Sure, Trudeau and the SNP have won power (fairly limited in the case of the SNP). But to me they look like lefty versions of the establishment, hardly blow-it-all-up-and-start-again revolutionaries.

              I’m grateful that neither New Zealand nor the US have conditions bad enough for blow-it-all up revolutionaries to really get traction (despite the best efforts of Nats and Repugs). Coz I’ve seen the aftermath of a couple and it’s ugly. I’m not aware of any genuine removals of the establishment in recent history that can be considered to have a good outcome for most of the population. The closest we’ve had to that in New Zealand was 1984, and the results of that are a mixed bag at best.

              In any case, the big point I seem to be continually trying to make is that every time we forego a small step forward, because it’s not enough, and allow the other side to take their steps backward, the hill to climb just gets higher, steeper and less time to do it.

              That’s the case whether it’s voting for Stein or not voting at all because Hillary wasn’t good enough (allowing Trump to get in), or totally rejecting the idea of a carbon tax because it won’t be enough on it’s own (which allows emissions to climb unhindered). At least one of our commenters here that has very specific issues where there’s clear differences between parties, but won’t vote because none of the parties are good enough to earn that vote. At the real decision point, it’s always better to go for the small gains now and work for bigger gains later, rather than forego the small gains and hope the other side will make things so bad it will all blow up. Coz that just ends up with smoking ruins.

              • Bill

                Who has been spouting any “blow it all and start again” revolutionary stuff? Not me.

                Fact is that the political landscape is fractured and that offers opportunities to make and lock in progressive change. What’s wrong with that, or frightening about that?

                I’m kind of picking up on a tendency by some to suggest that chaos and harm are the only options that exist besides a retreat to a comfortable set of norms that have been rightly and understandably rejected by a huge number of people because they’ve been hurting like hell for some years now and are confronted with zero prospects in their lives or for the lives of their children.

                Any attempt to retreat into that comfort zone of the past 40 years and shut down progressive ideas/politics (even the fairly ‘soft’ democratic socialist politics of a Sanders or a Corbyn – lefty establishment in the stead of a liberal establishment as it were) will result in a field day for Trump-like elitists. That’s when people will get hurt and worthwhile stuff will get destroyed….either straight off the bat or in response to a spiral of reaction and resistance.

  39. dukeofurl 46

    Interesting opinion story in NBR from way back when the TPP protests were going on
    https://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/open-letter-tpp-protesters

    The setup
    “Who has the power? WE have the power. This is what democracy looks like!”
    So went the chant of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) protesters outside SkyCity’s

    yep thats about right
    “The reason “peaceful protests” don’t work anymore is because none of its participants have access to the machinery of power and, far worse, they let themselves be used by the machinery of power to become a slave and a battery. This machinery of power is the arm of the state commonly known as the media, and it controlled every step the protesters took this week.”

    “Most people don’t realise that inviting media coverage of a movement will not “get your message out.” It never does: Instead, it gets the NZ Herald or NBR’s message out. Pithy chants and bright placards stand no chance of being delivered as intended

    Its just more click bait is so true

    “I’ve noted in earlier pieces how the presence of the media at a protest is a sure indicator of the imminent failure of that movement. The media doesn’t care for nuance and reasoned debate: It wants a cage fight, because that makes for good clicking. The media’s job is to package a protest as a Manichean commodity,

    And the heart of the matter
    “Ideally you wouldn’t even start a protest in the first place, because if you had the power to change anything you’d go right for the jugular. You wouldn’t dawdle around the edges “getting your voice heard.” Playing inside a rule-box someone else created is to lose the game before it starts. So if a guy approaches asking you to sign something, punch him in the throat. He’s your enemy. Until you understand this, until you realise that what holds you back is your self-imposed slavery, until you know this – not feel it – you will never be powerful.”

    This not something I would normally follow , the NBR, but who knew nathan Smith could give such a powerful voice.
    I think hes wrong in some respects , mass protest can be effective, and I think hes right dont involve the media ( they probably report back to the police first)

    • Bill 46.1

      NZ’s a fairly shallow country news wise or media wise, and so the media can be used by activists if they’re smart about how they go about it.

      I agree that the chanting marchers with the fucking placards hitting the streets (again 🙄 ) is shite and achieves 5/8ths of fuck all. Smart and (dare I say!) fun, imaginative action that’s geared to gather momentum and appeal to an ever broader spread of people pulling in associated issues as it goes…

      It’s that or waste time and energy on building up yet another single issue cause …and another…and another…

      • Phil 46.1.1

        chanting marchers with the fucking placards hitting the streets (again 🙄 ) is shite and achieves 5/8ths of fuck all.

        I passed a small group of protesters on The Terrace in Wellington today at lunchtime. The thing that most struck me is there has been zero innovation in protest chants in at least 30 years; all chants are “One, Two, Three, Four. something something rhymes with Four. Five, Six, Seven, Eight, something something rhymes with Eight.”

        How about some innovation? Keep it fresh, people.

  40. Kellar 47

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/nov/17/diversity-can-distract-us-from-economic-inequality?CMP=share_btn_fb

    I’m sure this seems obvious to most of you, But This guy has summed it up nice and simply. If you disagree then lets discuss.
    I think basically, the left has been shut into a tiny corner of the political spectrum in most countries. while “fauxialism” has taken its place. for many it appears the same, but those who are losing out are frustrated and misplace their anger.
    What does having a female ceo really mean to the women working minimum wage in her company?

    • Bill 47.1

      I don’t read him as talking about the left. Way I see it, he’s talking about liberalism and liberals and their mainstream ‘messages’ or programmes’ that have sought to set ‘acceptable bounds’ or acceptable limits on the horizons of ‘the left’. In terms of electoral politics they were sadly, quite successful. (Blair, Clinton, Clark et al)

      But as he writes, it’s over. And not a moment too soon either.

      Far from being in a corner, even the electoral left can blossom, now that it’s free from the erstwhile dominating ‘consensus’ that was given life by liberals and liberalism. .

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 hours ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 hours ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 hours ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    7 hours ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 hours ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    11 hours ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    23 hours ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 day ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    1 day ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    1 day ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 day ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    2 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    2 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    3 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    3 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    3 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    3 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    3 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    3 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    3 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    7 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    7 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    7 days ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago