POTUS, Covid and the New Zealand election

Written By: - Date published: 8:01 am, October 3rd, 2020 - 122 comments
Categories: covid-19, Donald Trump, election 2020, jacinda ardern, Judith Collins, labour, national, same old national, uncategorized - Tags:

Incredible yet utterly predictable news emerged from the US of A yesterday.

Donald Trump has tested positive for Covid.

I am not surprised.  This is the most evil, effective, transmittable disease imaginable.  It spreads easily, does not cause significant problems to the vast majority of people infected, yet for a few, including the old and those suffering from various conditions, it can prove to be fatal.

And the POTUS has been such a denier.  He has trashed the science, ridiculed the wearing of masks even though this one of the best things that you can do, engaged in campaign events where the idea of social distancing is an anathema, and even mocked his opponent for wearing masks in public, even at the same time Covid was probably setting up residence in him.

To beat it, or at least hold it at bay, you have to be ruthless, quick and be prepared to follow the scientific advice.  Like in Aotearoa New Zealand, where we have thrown everything at eradicating the virus and despite recent set backs we are, fingers crossed, heading towards a situation where we have no Covid cases in hospital and the only new cases are those travelling from overseas safely held up in quarantine.

As a sign of how potent the virus is we have had recent incidents involving an elevator button, some imported food and a rubbish bin.

We have multiple infections amongst people who happened to catch a plane together.

This is a tough virus.  You have to go hard and you have to go early.  There is no room for half measures or hesitation.  If you are not brave enough or fast enough you lose.

As WHO head Michael Ryan has put it in a slightly different context, speed trumps perfection.  I have used this tweet a few times.  It still strikes a chord for me about how the only successful response is a quick and determined one.

America’s problem?  Thanks to the unimaginable clusterfuck that is the Trump administration the most advanced and richest nation in the world is totally incapable of responding properly to the virus.  Trump prevaricated and downplayed and did not understand, or even worse did understand but for political reasons did not properly respond to, this most pressing of health issues.

What are the repercussions for Aotearoa politics?  If anything it reinforces how well Jacinda Ardern and the Government have handled the issue.

We are looking pretty good.  We have had a few scares and huge political and commentator beat ups about how bad our system is, but it is still holding.  The contact tracing is now working pretty well and it seems that we will not have to descend into level 4 lock downs any more, we just trace and organise and quarantine really hard.

What is National doing?

Well recently Collins claimed that New Zealand was too slow to close its border and that Samoa closed its border a month before we did.  Dear reader this is not true.  It really casts into doubt the commentators judgment on who won the second debate (looking at you Josie Pagani).  Sure Judith may have been louder and interrupted more and spoke for longer but for me I prefer a leader that actually gets their facts right.

When asked afterwards for proof that Samoa locked down National, excuse the caps SAID THAT SAMOA HAD ISSUED A HEALTH TRAVEL ADVISORY NOTICE.  I for one would be really afraid if I had a Prime Minister and a Government party that confused a border closure with a health travel advisory notice.

I would prefer that they would come out and say that Judith was wrong.  Their failure to do so and their decision to feed us crap indicates to me that they should never be trusted with any leadership role.

And get this.  National thinks that an incident involving ten people contracting the virus on a flight into New Zealand, being identified as being infected in quarantine and then put into isolation is proof of Labour’s failure at the border.   Call me biased but I would think that this was proof that the system was working exactly, precisely as it was intended.

Politics is changing.  Instead of this being a contest of ideas between the right and the left it is becoming a contest of ideas between intellectuals and mostly stupid rich people willing to sell their souls to huge corporations for power.  Truth does not matter, only headlines and soundbites and perceptions of being powerful.

America is testimony to what happens with this type of leadership.  New Zealand shows what happens when you don’t.

Vote wisely.  Your life of the lives of your loved ones depend on it.

122 comments on “POTUS, Covid and the New Zealand election ”

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  1. dv 1
    3 October 2020 at 8:37 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300122973/october-surprise-trumps-covid19-diagnosis-throws-us-election-into-chaos

    Many Americans, especially those who dislike the President, will be dubious about the accuracy of the information that emerges from the White House in coming days given Trump's predilection for falsehoods.

  2. solkta 2
    3 October 2020 at 9:31 am

    One should never laugh at another's misfortune, bUt..

    • Anne 2.1
      3 October 2020 at 10:16 am

      There are always exceptions to the rule and Trump is a leading example. He got exactly what he deserved.

      I treat with contempt the various world leaders falling over themselves sending him messages of good will and hoping he recovers soon. Fawning over a despotic and bullying arsehole is about as disgusting as it can ever get. We saw it happen in the 1930s and look where that lead.

      • Chris T 2.1.1
        3 October 2020 at 2:08 pm

        "

        Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has passed on "New Zealand's best wishes" to Covid-19 infected US President Donald Trump and his wife, Melenia.

        "We have seen now several world leaders who are being affected by Covid-19 and I know that I stand with others in wishing all the best," she told reporters this afternoon.

        "This is, obviously, a virus that has had a devastating impact."

        She has asked her officials at the New Zealand Embassy in the US to pass along a message, wishing "the President a speedy recovery on behalf of New Zealand"."

        • solkta 2.1.1.1
          3 October 2020 at 2:17 pm

          I hope they added "yeh, nah" on the end.

        • Anne 2.1.1.2
          3 October 2020 at 6:38 pm

          Yep. I'm at liberty to be honest whereas the "well wishing" leaders think they have to pretend to care.

          I don't give a damn what happens to the man because he's a malevolent narcissist, bully-boy fascist and I loathe everything he stands for. He's the new Hitler and if he wins this US election the world is in for another world war.

    • KJT 2.2
      3 October 2020 at 2:36 pm

      I'm philosophically opposed to the death penalty.

      But. If you could have time traveled back to `1930's Germany and had the opportunity, "Would you have killed, Hitler?".

      • Chris T 2.2.1
        3 October 2020 at 3:14 pm

        Personal opinion philosophically, no.

        As extremely bad as it was, the world would be in a totally different make up.

        And you really wouldn't want to mess with that stuff, as the over all outcome could have meant we were screwed in other ways.

        • KJT 2.2.1.1
          3 October 2020 at 3:19 pm

          Yes. I strongly suspect Hitler, and Trump were/are a symptom as much as the cause.

          It would probably just change the name of the arsehole, who ended up doing similar things.

          • Chris T 2.2.1.1.1
            3 October 2020 at 3:27 pm

            But then having read that, we have ended up with people comparing an orange twat in the US, who only gets 4 year terms in power to one of the worst mass genocidal maniacs the world has ever produced, so I could be persuaded, if it means not having that level of stupid.

            • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1.1
              3 October 2020 at 3:33 pm

              Between the 200,000 dead, the forced sterilisations, and the support for white supremacist gangs… really, the only difference is a couple of zeros. Most presidents manage to stay much further away from the comparison than that.

              • Chris T …
                3 October 2020 at 4:04 pm

                What 200,000 dead? and Hitler was 11,000,000 including women and children.

                Edit: Apologies. Just realised you mean Covid 19. FFS. Get some perspective

                • McFlock …
                  3 October 2020 at 4:29 pm

                  So you know about the forced sterilisations then? And the support from and for white supremacist street gangs?

                  As for perspective, here's an interesting one from May: The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

                • Foreign waka …
                  4 October 2020 at 9:10 am

                  Chris T on 3/10 at 4:04pm

                  The perspective is that we all need to be more tolerant of each other and accept that in nature variety secures survival. Once you start eliminating everything to get one type of anything, all starts to fall apart and die.

                  As people we are part of nature and should, no matter how intellectual and "developed" we are emulate this absolute survival strategy.

                • KJT …
                  4 October 2020 at 9:17 am

                  Only 200 000 dead, and several more billions from his blocking AGW action with his appointed stooges.

                  Not so bad then?

              • Rapunzel …
                4 October 2020 at 6:46 am

                The two other ways to "be screwed" you mention are just a couple of the many happening in the US are overlooked by the poster – death by a 1000 cuts looks to be what's happening there

            • KJT 2.2.1.1.1.2
              3 October 2020 at 3:47 pm

              An orange twit who is threatening violence if he is not re-elected.

              “Robert Riech.

              It follows that if he loses the election, Trump will not accept the result because it would be the product of Anti-Trump Nation, and Trump isn’t the president of people who would vote against him. As he recently claimed, “The only way we’re going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.”

              Read more

              In the warped minds of Trump and his acolytes, this could lead to civil war. Just this week he refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power. His consigliere Roger Stone urges him to declare “martial law” if he loses. Michael Caputo, assistant secretary of public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services, warns “the shooting will begin” when Trump refuses to go.

              Civil war is unlikely, but the weeks and perhaps months after election day will surely be fraught. Even if Trump is ultimately forced to relinquish power, his core adherents will continue to view him as their leader. If he retains power, many if not most Americans will consider his presidency illegitimate”.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                3 October 2020 at 4:14 pm

                “The only way we’re going to lose this election is if the election is rigged.”

                Which is very similar to what National were saying last election when they lost with their No, no, no its the biggest party that should be in government.

                It was, and is, disturbing how many people actually believed them.

            • Andre 2.2.1.1.1.3
              3 October 2020 at 3:50 pm

              Patience. Give Hair Twitler a bit of time. Addy became Chancellor in '33, then Fuhrer in '34. He didn't really start rolling with the stuff he became best known for until '39.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.2
            3 October 2020 at 4:16 pm

            Yes. I strongly suspect Hitler, and Trump were/are a symptom as much as the cause.

            And thus the correction that followed/follows is needed? A jolt along the path to being a better people?

        • Drowsy M. Kram 2.2.1.2
          3 October 2020 at 3:24 pm

          Tricky hypothetical. Better the genocidal maniac you know, eh? Couldn’t have done it myself (not enough of the right stuff), but would at least consider paying someone else to do it without too many qualms.

          DEMOCIDE: NAZI GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

          Chapter 1: 20,946,000 Victims – Nazi Germany 1933 To 1945

          "Hitler told Himmler that it was not enough for the Jews simply to die; they must die in agony." — Robert Payne, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler

          • KJT 2.2.1.2.1
            3 October 2020 at 3:49 pm

            I think Chris T may be right. The death toll from another megolomaniac strongman instead, could have been the same.

            But then. The Wiemer Republic, may have prevailed. Though Hitler was not the only wannabee warlord.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 2.2.1.2.1.1
              3 October 2020 at 3:53 pm

              We’ll never know. I'd be OK with the possibility of a similar outcome, but not a worse one.

  3. Ad 3
    3 October 2020 at 9:46 am

    This is the Covid election.

    Ardern is the leader who got us out of it.

    Ardern needs our party vote.

    And today voting starts.

    • solkta 3.1
      3 October 2020 at 9:51 am

      Actually, Ardern does not need your party vote. Plenty are coming her way. Party vote Green for a labour Labour government.

      • Ad 3.1.1
        3 October 2020 at 11:05 am

        No one else deserves it like Ardern.

      • Andre 3.1.2
        3 October 2020 at 11:19 am

        The most recent polls from all three pollsters show that neither Greens nor Labour need a "helping hand" or "charity" vote.

        Keeping in mind the old idea that "people is policy", vote for whichever party that best fits your values and priorities on balance.

        • solkta 3.1.2.1
          3 October 2020 at 2:38 pm

          It is not about the Greens not getting in, i have never doubted that, but rather getting enough of the vote so that we can actually have that "transformational government" that keeps getting talked about.

        • McFlock 3.1.2.2
          3 October 2020 at 3:01 pm

          Greens are still a bit close to the line for my liking.

          But I don't think anyone can go too far wrong voting for either Green or Labour.

          • KJT 3.1.2.2.1
            3 October 2020 at 3:07 pm

            Don't mind saying i've already voted. Greens for the party to keep the next Labour/Greens Government, "Left", and candidate vote for the excellent local Labour candidate. Splitting the "leftish" candidate vote will just make it even more likely the National Moran, and he really is, gets through.

            • solkta 3.1.2.2.1.1
              3 October 2020 at 7:02 pm

              I'll be voting the same way in the same electorate. I couldn't stomach the Labour candidate last time, but this time they have done much better.

  5. EE 5
    3 October 2020 at 10:26 am

    One shouldn’t laugh at anothers misfortune, but this is a Bolsanaro/Johnson moment.
    That sense of Justice, when a bag of shit leader gets a taste of what they have inflicted on their people

  6. Foreign waka 6
    3 October 2020 at 10:35 am

    "Politics is changing. Instead of this being a contest of ideas between the right and the left it is becoming a contest of ideas between intellectuals and mostly stupid rich people willing to sell their souls to huge corporations for power. Truth does not matter, only headlines and soundbites and perceptions of being powerful"

    A large section of the population is left behind right here with that statement non the less. Intellectuals such as researchers are often desk jockeys who will not comprehend a fruit pickers or cleaners life challenges. Many rich person might not care but remember most have University degrees and hence are part of the intellectual class.

    So before we go down the road of the new social class system that seem to develop here – intellectuals of any ilk vs under educated workers – lets stop that rot in the tracks please. Its a British thing, I get it but we should have moved on.

  7. Anne 7
    3 October 2020 at 10:59 am

    Talk about a gross over-reaction:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12369993

    It could only happen in America.

    "It's the plane that has the ability to order the killing of everyone on earth if someone attacks the US with nukes in a first strike. It can talk to our missile subs under water even if DC is gone."

    • Sacha 7.1
      3 October 2020 at 11:04 am

      Not at all. Shows how potentially serious this development is. The UK would have done similar things when Boris was hospitalised but not said anything about it.

  8. Incognito 8
    3 October 2020 at 11:22 am

    Minor correction:

    As a sign of how potent the virus is we have had recent incidents involving an elevator button, some imported food and a rubbish bin.

    We have multiple infections amongst people who happened to catch a plane together. [my italics]

    The correct term is:

    Infectivity

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectivity

  10. Poission 10
    3 October 2020 at 12:07 pm

    To beat it, or at least hold it at bay, you have to be ruthless, quick and be prepared to follow the scientific advice.

    Well you wouldn't want to follow WHO advice,where economics,politics,and PC were the standard OP.

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1311400442996363264

    • Muttonbird 10.1
      3 October 2020 at 12:17 pm

      I spent 4 hours in Lorenz's Bar & Cafe at Whakapapa on Wednesday waiting for the gondola to open (it didn't).

      Tightly packed, it was hive of potential Covid spread.

      My two and I were the only, and I mean only, mask wearers in the place. Sure, they are at L1 but Aucklanders are told to 'take their level with them'.

      • Sacha 10.1.1
        3 October 2020 at 12:55 pm

        Disgusting.

      • KJT 10.1.2
        3 October 2020 at 2:47 pm

        Flight recently. Everyone donned masks before getting into the boarding line. Small airport so all distanced before that. Except for two middle aged expensive suits.

        Arrival Auckland. Almost no masks in the terminal. WTF.

        • Muttonbird 10.1.2.1
          3 October 2020 at 2:51 pm

          Yeah, I was hoping for a sea change in attitude after the August outbreak. Hasn't happened.

          A mask-less L1 is not proof against Coronavirus.

          • KJT 10.1.2.1.1
            3 October 2020 at 3:03 pm

            To me. Masks when a lot of people have to be close together for an extended time is almost a no brainer. And easy and cheap to do. Especially as Air NZ gives them out like lollies. Good on them.

  11. Dennis Frank 11
    3 October 2020 at 12:12 pm

    Trump’s physician said in a memo that the president “as a precautionary measure” has “received a single 8 gram dose of Regeneron’s polyclonal antibody cocktail.”

    Trump has also been taking zinc, vitamin D, melatonin, a daily aspirin and the histamine-blocker famotidine, Conley said in the memo.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/white-house-reveals-trumps-coronavirus-treatment-says-he-is-fatigued-but-in-good-spirits.html

    Conspiracy theorists will no doubt get excited by the word polyclonal. Talk first, think later syndrome will kick in, so expect the spectre of multiple Trump clones to loom large on social media sometime soon.

    Actually, the science of this treatment seems to be animal based so I wonder about human trials… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyclonal_antibodies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyclonal_antibodies

    • Incognito 11.1
      3 October 2020 at 12:38 pm

      Actually, the science of this treatment seems to be animal based so I wonder about human trials…

      What do you mean?

      • Dennis Frank 11.1.1
        3 October 2020 at 1:00 pm

        My quick scan of the wiki didn't pick up on any, so it got me wondering. I haven't time to investigate further currently, so maybe someone else here can reveal the extent of human trialling of the treatment (if any). Just so we know how far out on this limb Trump has crawled…

        • Incognito 11.1.1.1
          3 October 2020 at 1:20 pm

          I see, I thought you had some beef with ‘animal-based’ treatments in general.

          Yes, the trial is in progress and only a descriptive analysis has been released only a few days as far as I can tell.

          The investigational antibody cocktail is called REGN-COV2 and is a combination of two monoclonal antibodies (REGN10933 and REGN10987). In other words, you were heading down the wrong path with those links to polyclonals.

          There seems to be a tendency among Social Media users to ‘echo’ stuff that they appear to know very little about 🙁

          • Dennis Frank 11.1.1.1.1
            3 October 2020 at 1:56 pm

            Are you suggesting Trump’s physician was lying? Or is his use of polyclonal erroneous due to not being a specialist in that field? Latter more likely, eh?

            Further info: “After Trump’s disclosure, he and first lady Melania had tested positive some physicians including Dr. Matt McCarthy, an infectious disease expert, identified Regeneron’s drug as the best option for treatment at this time.” https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/regeneron-is-trumps-covid-19-treatment-what-to-know

            • SPC 11.1.1.1.1.1
              3 October 2020 at 2:07 pm

              Depends on whether you think two monoclonals is polyclonal or not, you can read up on the monoclonal combinations (those considered and ones chosen) being used (it has a lot to do with preventing viral attachment to cells and preventing mutation – I thought they were just replicating the antibodies produced by recovered patients currently given via blood plasma, but its complicated).

            • Incognito 11.1.1.1.1.2
              3 October 2020 at 2:24 pm

              A mixture of two monoclonals would be a biclonal antibody. The difference between monoclonal and polyclonal antibodies is more fundamental than simply implying ‘a mixture of’. At best, I’d say it was sloppy use of language. At worst, the person who wrote that Memo is ignorant.

  12. Stuart Munro 12
    3 October 2020 at 12:25 pm

    Well, I hope he doesn't come out of a mild case tweeting "See – it's no worse than the 'flu", and cost a lot more lives.

    • SPC 12.1
      3 October 2020 at 1:41 pm

      Fun fact for those infected. You are 10 times more likely to die from SARS COV2 than the average flu virus. So if use of a flu vaccine makes sense …

  13. SPC 13
    3 October 2020 at 1:39 pm

    Information that POTUS is taking Vitamin D, like Fauci, is good news.

    Vitamin D is required for a healthy immune system (and aging reduces the amount made in the body from sun on the skin). As is sleep – which explains the use of melatonin.

    Presumably Trump will not make the Boris Johnson mistake of doing too much work after infection.

    Of the early treatments for viral infections (via chemists nasal spray and iodine solution throat gargles) available, its interesting that they have gone for monoclonal antibodies. Other options more widely used included blood plasma from recovered patients (for the antibodies) which has shown to work best the earlier it is given and remdesivir (only shown to have reduced hospitalisation stays by a few days).

    Initial results have suggested that they can reduce the level of the virus in the body and possibly shorten hospital stays — when they are given early in the course of infection.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/health/trump-antibody-treatment.html

    One thing that is resulting from SARS Cov2 is the development of new approaches for either stimulating immune response or anti-viral action when infected with a virus.

    PS Use of a mask to either prevent infection or reduce the amount of infection has been compared to being vaccinated (do not get it, so cannot pass it on or get it and not much if any illness).

    • Sacha 13.1
      3 October 2020 at 6:02 pm

      Presumably Trump will not make the Boris Johnson mistake of doing too much work

      We can guarantee that.

  15. SPC 15
    3 October 2020 at 3:36 pm

    Trump said

    he wore masks "when needed" but said his opponent Biden wore masks unnecessarily when people were "200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen".

    Trump apparently found it hard to socially isolate before the debate, and yet did not wear a mask.

    Where there is no justice, there is no hope. Where there is Hope there is justice, for each and every rally now not held will save lives across the towns of America. Finally Trump is serving American interests, by practicising social distancing.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    3 October 2020 at 4:02 pm

    To beat it, or at least hold it at bay, you have to be ruthless, quick and be prepared to follow the scientific advice.

    This is a tough virus. You have to go hard and you have to go early. There is no room for half measures or hesitation. If you are not brave enough or fast enough you lose.

    And he would have known that if he'd Ascended:

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear."

    Although I doubt he'd play as he doesn't seem to like NZ and its a NZ made game. That said, he does seem to be conversant with the wisdom of the scion:

    Power corrupts and corruption empowers.

    National thinks that an incident involving ten people contracting the virus on a flight into New Zealand, being identified as being infected in quarantine and then put into isolation is proof of Labour’s failure at the border.

    The right-wing have to lie because reality never conforms to their beliefs or their desires.

    Instead of this being a contest of ideas between the right and the left it is becoming a contest of ideas between intellectuals and mostly stupid rich people willing to sell their souls to huge corporations for power.

    Not really. It's mostly been about a competition between beliefs but the old beliefs of conservatives and the rich are being proved wrong on a more or less daily basis. The Left are, mostly, dropping those failed beliefs while National and the right-wing try to maintain them in place for their own power and aggrandizement.

  17. The Al1en 17
    3 October 2020 at 5:02 pm

    Very concerning news and I, like millions around the world, wish for a rapid recovery.

    isolating after positive coronavirus test

  18. joe90 18
    3 October 2020 at 5:25 pm

    Is schadenfreude lasting longer than 24 hours harmful to one's health?

    https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/1312239628225740800

  19. Byd0nz 19
    3 October 2020 at 7:05 pm

    Give him novichock, it dont kill people apparantly, maybe it will kill the virus.

  22. Andre 22
    3 October 2020 at 7:57 pm

    Depending on your nature, the view from MAGAmoronia is either hysterically funny or horrifying:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/02/maga-world-blame-adulation-trump-covid-425624

    • Ad 22.1
      4 October 2020 at 5:54 am

      That was fun.

      I do sometimes wonder what it would look like in a parallel universe where Hillary was elected and got the disease. Would we be any nobler?

      O but wait this is reality.

      And the surf is high and glassy on Schadenfreude Reef.

  23. Treetop 23
    4 October 2020 at 8:31 am

    Covid – 19 is so unpredictable, from being asymptomatic to not winning the battle for your life.

    Trump is facing the unknown and each of us do not know how we would respond were we to be infected with the virus.

    What a leveler for Trump. Covid has the ability to weaken Trump physically, mentally and politically. The outcome is that without the health required to campaign at such a critical time in the election cycle what is the point in running for president?

  24. Pat 24
    4 October 2020 at 9:39 am

    "A long era of stable resource competition is thus rapidly ending. Historically, empires locked in their economic supply chains and managed competition. And in the long post-1945 cycle of decolonization, the United States, as the global economic hegemon, backstopped the rules and norms of world trade. At the same time, supplies of critical resources – in particular, fossil fuels – became more dispersed as improved geological information and new technologies (like deep-sea drilling and fracking) helped to loosen OPEC’s grip.

    But today, conditions have flipped. Critical minerals for the digital and post-carbon economy are highly concentrated geographically, while the end of US unipolarity and increasing global trade uncertainties have triggered a rush to secure them."

    https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/107346/sophia-kalantzakos-urges-rich-country-governments-develop-effective-strategies-free

    Energy…the basis of everything we do and why in a world of 8 billion mass starvation and conflict has remained subdued….so far.

    • Andre 24.1
      4 October 2020 at 10:12 am

      Yeah, nah.

      Consider batteries – much is made of lithium and the concentrations in Bolivia, Argentina and Chile. But Tesla gets its lithium mostly from Australia, and has purchased mineral rights in Nevada which is expected to supply much of its demand. Then when it comes to nickel and cobalt, there's other chemistries that don't need either. Tesla is even using nickel and cobalt free LFP batteries in some of its made in China cars. Let alone alternatives that are a bit further out, such as lithium-sulfur. Or beyond that, sodium or potassium, or, or …

      Similarly for rare earths – they're not actually particularly rare. It's more that extracting and refining them is environmentally nasty, so in most places it's not worth complying with even minimal environment protection standards to get set up. Particularly when places like China DGAF so it's easy and cheapish to set up and just make a mess. But if the price gets high enough, then it becomes worthwhile to set up. So there was a bit of a supply/price crunch a few years back IIRC, but things have settled back down since then. Then for a lot of applications that use rare-earths, there are in fact substitutes that only carry small weight/efficiency/price penalties that are quite viable to substitute in if rare earth supply becomes too hard.

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dont-panic-about-rare-earth-elements/

      Bottom line is, that article makes the mistake of looking at what the situation is now and extrapolating out to what the problems might be if the status quo just massively expands. But that doesn't happen, technology changes, substitutes are found, the entire situation evolves to become very different to previous conditions. Predictions are hard, especially about the future.

      BTW, can’t see the connection with Covid, POTUS, and our election. Maybe better moved to Open Mike?

      • Pat 24.1.1
        4 October 2020 at 10:23 am

        "BTW, can’t see the connection with Covid, POTUS, and our election. Maybe better moved to Open Mike?"

        My bad, thought i had.

        • Andre 24.1.1.1
          4 October 2020 at 10:52 am

          Substance of this thread has been copied to Open Mike so can probably be deleted here.

  26. joe90 26
    4 October 2020 at 12:06 pm

    Life and art etc etc

    https://twitter.com/meakoopa/status/1312329599200657408

    The red death had long devastated the country. No pestilence had ever been so fatal, or so hideous. Blood was its Avatar and its seal — the madness and the horror of blood. There were sharp pains, and sudden dizziness, and then profuse bleeding at the pores, with dissolution. The scarlet stains upon the body and especially upon the face of the victim, were the pest ban which shut him out from the aid and from the sympathy of his fellow-men. And the whole seizure, progress, and termination of the disease, were incidents of half an hour.

    But Prince Prospero was happy and dauntless and sagacious. When his dominions were half depopulated, he summoned to his presence a thousand hale and light-hearted friends from among the knights and dames of his court, and with these retired to the deep seclusion of one of his crenellated abbeys. This was an extensive and magnificent structure, the creation of the prince's own eccentric yet august taste. A strong and lofty wall girdled it in. This wall had gates of iron. The courtiers, having entered, brought furnaces and massy hammers and welded the bolts.

    They resolved to leave means neither of ingress nor egress to the sudden impulses of despair or of frenzy from within. The abbey was amply provisioned. With such precautions the courtiers might bid defiance to contagion. The external world could take care of itself. In the meantime it was folly to grieve or to think. The prince had provided all the appliances of pleasure. There were buffoons, there were improvisatori, there were ballet-dancers, there were musicians, there was Beauty, there was wine. All these and security were within. Without was the "Red Death."

    It was toward the close of the fifth or sixth month of his seclusion that the Prince Prospero entertained his thousand friends at a masked ball of the most unusual magnificence.

    […]

    And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a thief in the night. And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.

    https://www.poemuseum.org/the-masque-of-the-red-death

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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • The case for cultural connectedness
    A recent report generated from a Growing Up in New Zealand (GUiNZ) survey of 1,224 rangatahi Māori aged 11-12 found: Cultural connectedness was associated with fewer depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms and better quality of life. That sounds cut and dry. But further into the report the following appears: Cultural connectedness is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
    David Farrar writes –    The Herald reports: From the gory details of job-cuts news, you’d think the public service was being eviscerated.   While the media’s view of the cuts is incomplete, it’s also true that departments have been leaking the particulars faster than a Wellington ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    5 days ago

  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago

  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago

  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago

  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago

  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago

  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago

  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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