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Rally Against Racism in Auckland Tonight

Written By: - Date published: 9:21 am, August 3rd, 2018 - 190 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, democracy under attack, International, pasifika, Politics, racism, workers' rights - Tags: , ,

A night of protests against the visit of Canadian racists Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux begins at 5.30 tonight in Aotea Square, Auckland. The hate speech tour, promoted by old white men Don Brash and Chris Trotter, rolls into NZ after violent demonstrations in Australia.

This is a battle in the ongoing class war. We are told that we are all middle class now, but the reality is that increasingly we are all really working class. The working world is further away from economic freedom than has ever been. Inflated house prices and credit card debt are not a sustainable basis for optimism.

Unions Auckland spokesperson Joe Carolan nails the class aspect:

“There is an agenda here and that is the 1%, the rich in this country, are terrified of our unity, therefore they want to create a far right party to divide our class”.

Don’t think that’s likely? With ACT no longer a useful coalition prospect for National, the rich right will be considering alternatives. A NZ  version of UKIP or France’s Front Nationale has got to be an option. Certainly, the old white men behind the Hate Speech Coalition must be wondering if there’s a kiwi Nigel Farage out there. Mike Hosking must be itching for the call.

There are multiple groups involved in the anti-fascist action and it’s likely that there may be swiftly changing protest priorities throughout the night. Obviously, once the venue is known* direct protests are likely to happen outside (and possibly inside).

Sina Brown-Davis, spokesperson for Tāmaki Anti-fascist Action (TAFA) says

“Members of Auckland’s diverse communities are uniting against racism and the politics of hate … Together we will stand up against fascism and to celebrate the power and strength of diversity and tolerance.“

I’m not so sure about the tolerance; fascism must be fought. Tonight could be Auckland’s best opportunity to publicly oppose racism since 1981, when the apartheid rugby tour invigorated a new generation of activists.

The Migrant Workers Association NZ and the Pacific Panthers, who are dovetailing their protest with the Aotea square rally, have said they will do something unusual so that “racist speakers will not be able to deliver the hatred speeches”.

That sounds more like it.

The MWANZ/Pacific Panthers people are meeting at the offices of Unite Union, 6A Western Springs Rd, Kingsland at 5 PM before heading into the city.

If you have any doubt about whether you should turn out to protest, here’s some sound and sensible advice from NZ’s National Front:

“Commies, antifa and other despicable creatures considering protesting this event, you are absolute traitors to this nation and your people (unless you are not of European or even Maori decent)! You protesting this event shows me that you want us to be China’s bitch, you want Sharia law, you want us to be completely overrun by foreigners and you want the remnants of this nation still owned by actual New Zealanders to be sold out and given away to foreigners.”

So, there you have it, you Chinese loving, Sharia worshipping Free Speech haters, get along tonight and make yourself heard.

If you can’t make it, please consider donating to help cover transport costs for others. There’s a givealittle page here.

 

*The venue should be known later today. The post will be updated accordingly.

UPDATE: The venue is the Powerstation in Eden Terrace. However, the owner has apparently cancelled the event, possibly because it’s too late to change the signage to the more appropriate White Power Station.

UPDATE 2: And this on the promoter’s page:

Due to circumstances beyond our control tonight’s event in Auckland has been cancelled.  All ticket holders will be refunded within 14 days. Further details and announcements will be made as soon as possible.

UPDATE 3: While it was reported on RNZ that the Powerstation owner Peter Campbell was saying that he stood by the initial decision to host the racists, another owner, Gabrielle Mullins, has indicated that the venue didn’t initially know what the event was.

Mullins says:

“I understand it’s all about freedom of speech, but it’s the content of the freedom of speech that I found offensive.”

Mullins apologised to “all who have supported the Powerstation and who we may have offended”.

 

 

 

190 comments on “Rally Against Racism in Auckland Tonight”

  1. Carolyn_Nth 1

    I am going to the”peaceful rally” tonight in Aotea Square.

    This has widely been advertised as a peaceful protest.

    The tone of this post makes it sound like violence WILL happen. There are clearly united but diverse groups participating in their own way. But the post ignores the major part of the promos for the main events tonight.

    A peaceful protest by a large number of Auckland/Aotearoa people will positively show how much we value our diverse society.

    • Chris 1.1

      Tautoko that Carolyn_Nth. Tonight’s protests will be peaceful and nonviolent and we will have trained marshals there to enforce that. We will not allow ourselves to be manipulated by agent provocateurs. The protest actions will however be loud and clear.

      • Carolyn_Nth 1.1.1

        Great to hear. Thanks Chris. Looking forward to the event. Loud and clear is what I am hoping for.

    • Puckish Rogue 1.2

      Legal protest is all good and should be encouraged so good luck to you but I’m somewhat old fashioned (possibly even chauvinistic) in that I don’t want to see women getting hurt so if you think theres going to be some violence going down then please remove yourself from the area before it happens, if you can

      Absolutely keep protesting but keep yourself safe is all I’m saying

      • Cinny 1.2.1

        PR, maybe you could go there just to keep people safe, if you are concerned.

        It’s natural for men to feel protective towards women, that’s one of the aspects I love about masculinity, nothing old fashioned about it 🙂 It just means you care, and that’s all good.

        • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.1

          I also hold doors open for women (actually I hold doors open for everyone) so if you flick me a flight ticket I will 🙂

          But on a more serious note its quite easy to get caught up in the moment and let herd mentality take over (both left and right) and well you can easily get yourself in over your head and do things you might end up regretting later or have things happen to you that you’ll regret even more

          Basically, to everyone, protest legally and look after yourselves (and others)

      • mary_a 1.2.2

        PR @ (1.2) … I understand where you are coming from.

        I have been part of the protest movement since the ’60’s right through to a few years ago, when the ageing process slowed me down somewhat. In all that time, I found there is a very strong and sincere camaraderie amongst the protesters, mostly strangers, with everyone prepared to protect each other, should the occasion arise. I’m sure this will still be the case tonight … ‘we are in it together.’

    • Cinny 1.3

      Awesomesauce Carolyn, good stuff.

      Will be really interested in your comments about it post event. At least we will be able to get an honest factual account from your good self.

    • paul andersen 1.4

      the judean peoples front versus the peoples front of judeah,,,, thats him down in front!

    • lprent 1.5

      Looks pretty peaceful to me. The usual couple of police with cameras around and a lot of people slowly filling up part of the square.

  2. Ad 2

    Marama Davison’s election to Green leader was supposed to absorb all these wascally wadicals back to the Greens. Maybe Sina or Mike Treen should replace her to see if they can get their detectable pulse back.

    • Carolyn_Nth 2.1

      Marama Davidson is a speaker at the Rally Against Racism tonight in Aotea Square tonight.

      So what are you talking about in relation to the events tonight? And where is the unity when you start dissing someone at the forefront of tonight’s rally and protests?

      • Ad 2.1.1

        Precisely. She better put on a show-stopping performance to get some fire back in the Greens who are otherwise completely asleep. There will be a bevy of strong speakers to compare her against.

        Don’t ask for unity from me about an imagined fascist threat when it amounts to a foolish projection on behalf of the usual disaffected grab-bag of the perpetually ignored.

  3. Cinny 3

    Thinking of those who will be able to go, with them in spirit. Unless I get the teleporter finished in time.

    Am interested to know if someone is going to the s&m pay per view event, just to tweet what goes on there, like the fella in Aussie did? He did a great job reporting on the evening.

  4. marty mars 4

    Fight them back. Kia kaha to the fighters in whatever way they can but especially to the front line activists. I fought the racists in the tour and realised that actions do speak louder than words sometimes. Fight them back!

    • Carolyn_Nth 4.1

      Yes. Fight back when under attack.

      But also it’s important to be clear about the nature of the fight. Above all else, at this stage, there is a propaganda war going on.

      The Canadian Pairs’ team are already talking up tonight’s anti-racism protests as an attempt to shut down free speech and incite violence – at least, that is how it is being reported by Matthew Theunissen on RNZ:

      Event organiser David Pellowe expected protesters to attend tonight’s event.

      “It’s always sad when lawless elements incite violence and are determined to hinder other people’s free speech.

      “Their sole objective isn’t to communicate displeasure but to shut down other people’s free speech.”

      He said Ms Southern and Mr Molyneux were doing very limited press on their tour, and indicated this would not include speaking to RNZ.

      So, these propagandists are very picky about where and when they exercise their free speech.

      Probably can’t stand up to very much rational scrutiny. It’s all about being provocative and appealing to the worst of emotions.

      • marty mars 4.1.1

        They will use whatever happens as propaganda so people may as well be true to their beliefs. This isn’t about stopping an international hate machine imo, it’s about personal stands and solidified convictions that lead to a person saying no. No. NO! That is empowerment especially when others of like mind are there too. Silent protest, letters, links, placards, blockages, yelling, and so on are all legitamite ways of creating empowerment imo. And to change the world we need empowerment.

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.2

        ” Above all else, at this stage, there is a propaganda war going on.”

        It would appear so. I’ve been keeping out of the Southern/Molyneux thing (being in the ‘don’t give them any more oxygen’ camp) and I have this feeling that protest action against them will just feed their narrative.

        However, I’m wondering about the motives of Stuff’s editors on publishing this article….
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104100739/treaty-of-waitangi-what-was-lost

        …with the predictable racist rants in the comments section (1.1k comments)

        Quickly followed by this morning’s….

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104205997/the-amount-allocated-to-treaty-settlements-is-tiny-compared-with-other-government-spending

        …with again a barrage of comments trending towards the borderline racist.

        What on earth is Stuff up to?

        Deliberately trying to stir up trouble from both sides, with the aim to create better headlines?

        • Carolyn_Nth 4.1.2.1

          I was in the not give them oxygen camp to start with. But internationally there is now a pattern of this kind of scum rising to the surface as the neoliberal consensus breaks down and people are looking for a new direction.

          There is also a pattern of trying to spread this kind of provocative propaganda to other counties – hence their visit to Aussie and NZ.

          I probably will go only to the Rally at Aotea Square, and not to the protest at the venue tonight. I don’t want to contribute more focus on that racist propaganda event, though understand what the p[rotesters will be trying to do with noise and diverse cultural performances.

          Also, I ain’t that young any more, and I need to get up fairly early for work tomorrow morning.

        • One Two 4.1.2.2

          The traps have been set…

          Minds have been propagandized…

          Like moths to a flame…

    • One Two 4.2

      No, Marty…that is not the path to be on…

      It is the path of continued aggression and suppression..

      I understand it’s difficult for most to ignore their primitive response mechanisms…

      “Best way to avoid punch…not be there” – Pat Morita (rip)

      • marty mars 4.2.1

        Yeah nah I’m good thanks.

        • One Two 4.2.1.1

          The tone of your comments say otherwise, Marty…

          Those who play into the obvious traps deliberately or unwittingly are equally responsible for the outcomes and consequences…

          Fighting and waring does not lead to peace…

          Never has…never will…

          • marty mars 4.2.1.1.1

            Peace is unobtainable, an illusion, the world macro and micro are/Is in constant continuous motion, 100%, ALL the time (pun intended). There is no peace, as in getting there, to peace imo. There IS oscillation towards peace and that requires some type of polarity albeit not 2 or 3 dimensionally. Im happy to be a part of the polarities that generate a type of motion or action that continues the oscillation towards the hypothetical point described as ‘ peace’.

            In other words or another angle is, I am being more peaceful by creating an opposition rather than allowing.

          • Tricledrown 4.2.1.1.2

            12 it will when we’re all nuked

  5. tsmithfield 5

    So, the Southern et al. publicity machine looks like it is getting ready to rock and roll.

    All these protests do is give them more attention, which is what they want. They wouldn’t be anywhere near as well known if it wasn’t for all protests. I can’t understand why you all want to keep feeding their popularity if you don’t want them to get attention.

    • marty mars 5.1

      Why aren’t you thanking us for getting more people to know views aligned with yours?

      • tsmithfield 5.1.1

        Actually, I don’t agree with everything that Southern says at all. See the last couple of comments I made on the previous thread.

        I just shake my head in disbelief in the contradiction in what you are trying to achieve.

        But, as mentioned in my thread below, at least behave rationally.

        Who do you think look better from an optics perspective? These protestors attacking a bus at one of her meetings in this video or the guy below who uses some compelling arguments in a rational discussion with her in the video I posted on the comment below?

        • marty mars 5.1.1.1

          I said aligned.

          • tsmithfield 5.1.1.1.1

            I am probably in agreement largely with the problems they raise, as are a number of more moderate Muslims such as Maajib Nawaz.

            However, I largely disagree with their proposed solutions or lack thereof.

            • marty mars 5.1.1.1.1.1

              So why aren’t you thanking us for getting more people to know views aligned with yours?

              • tsmithfield

                Actually, from my perspective I applaud what you are doing. Keep up the good work!!

                • marty mars

                  Thank you – great to have your support in our fight against hate speech and bigotry disguised as a free speech angle. Awesome you support action against these idiot low thinkers. Thanks again for your support – we’ll now try even harder to show these scum how unwelcome they are here in Aotearoa.

        • Ad 5.1.1.2

          It’s not just the left that goes full Godwin.

          Launching today is the new film by Dinesh D’Souza “Death of a Nation”, which explicitly links the left to Nazism.

          And of course Trump family reps went to the opening and loved it, and repeated its messages.

          The best defence we have is not more anger, but more rational debate promoted by the left.

          Everything else feeds the fire.

        • McFlock 5.1.1.3

          Sorry, where in that clip was the bus “attacked”?

  6. tsmithfield 6

    If you do get within speaking distance of her, then please discuss rationally with her. Understand her arguments. Understand the counter-arguments. Have facts and figures.

    People who do that look much better against her, and don’t feed her meme that the left are unhinged and intolerent. Check this video out for how a Muslim reporter dealt with her. Note to that Southern put this up, even though I don’t think she does that well.

    • Carolyn_Nth 6.1

      If you do get within speaking distance of her, then please discuss rationally with her

      ROTFLMAO

      Ah, they have been getting pretty good publicity in the MSM – sometimes by avoiding discussing it rationally with them (see above re-RNZ.)

      And these provocateurs DO love playing the victim, even as they set out to victimise others – either directly, or via cynical dog whistles.

      Interesting to see you supporting and promoting such divisive propagandists.

      • tsmithfield 6.1.1

        I don’t support all they say, just their right to say it.

        But the video I pointed to does show that they will discuss rationally, and post the videos even if it doesn’t favour them. So, there is a much better chance of getting your message across. Compare with the video I posted above of protestors attacking a bus.

        Who do you think looks better?

        So far as the success of protesting goes thus far, she is on “Sunday” on mainstream TV this week. Probably largely due to the commotion she causes wherever she goes. So, the meetings are actually probably just minor to them compared to the number of people they can reach on mainstream TV.

        That is why I can’t understand why the left continues to feed her publicity machine.

        • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1.1

          I actually think that, for some on the left, it seems as if protesting or (I’m sure of the right wording) just generally being belligerent is a more natural state for them

          Like a lot just seem compelled to protest even if its counterproductive to what they want to achieve

          Sorry I’m not getting this out properly

    • Paul Campbell 6.2

      Speaking distance? she’s hiding behind a $100 a head ticket, if she had real ideas that could be defended in public she’d be in Aotea Square calling out hecklers, it reality she has tired old 1930s racist/nazi ideas that she can only expound in front of like minded bottom feeders

      • tsmithfield 6.2.1

        Look at the videos from Australia etc.

        She does go out and meet with protestors, who usually just try and shout her down rather than discuss rationally.

        • Paul Campbell 6.2.1.1

          She went out pretending to be someone else asking questions about what people thought of her, pure narcissism! She didn’t pop down to speaker’s corner and expound her own ideas under her own name.

          Of course there’s a good reason for all this, her own racist ideas are disgusting to normal people if she went out in public to try and foist them on the general public she’d be shouted down by the overwhelming majority of normal kiwis.

    • Cinny 6.3

      tsmithfield, did you see her clip where she was so very upset and emotional that some people were trying to obscure her protest sign that read “there is no rape culture in the west”. Oh well if she needs a lawyer in NZ, there’s always Russell McVeagh.

      In the end what we choose to allow is what will continue….ignoring something doesn’t make it go away. A bit like a flat tyre, ignoring it often does more damage.

      • tsmithfield 6.3.1

        But the protest movement is growing their voice and voices like them world wide. So protests are achieving exactly the opposite of what is intended.

        The protest movement needs intelligent people who will argue with them rationally and get those messages out there. Not ones of protestors frothing at the mouth and trashing things.

        • Cinny 6.3.1.1

          But it is opening up conversation.

          How much air would a debate between lauren the 23 yr old college drop out and lowest polling candidate when she stood for election and, someone who counters her views receive in NZ?

          Would she agree to such a thing? Would she require payment to agree?

          Some protestors are in fact agent provocateurs, feeding mob mentality.

          I guess we will all find out more in the next 24hrs.

          • Puckish Rogue 6.3.1.1.1

            “How much air would a debate between lauren the 23 yr old college drop out and lowest polling candidate when she stood for election and, someone who counters her views receive in NZ?”

            A lot. Shes blonde, young, attractive and, most importantly, provocative so TVNZ would love having her on

            She even looks like she’d be a perfect fit for hosting TVNZ shows

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11977460

            ‘I hope I see a time – and soon – where you don’t have to be a pretty, blonde, Pakeha woman to co-host a prime time current affairs show.’

            As for debating well if you go to youtube and search Lauren Southern debate you’ll see plenty of examples of her debating everyone from protesters to current affairs programs

  7. Jane 7

    I will not be Dictated to by a BUNCH of non WHITES on MORALS AND YOUR opinion shoved DOwn my throat. Under the BILL OFRIGHTs i have the rights to feoma an opinion and not like a maori, middle easterner, indian, islander or aafrican

    DONT PREACH RIGHTS OR MORALS TO ME CONSIDERING THE WHITES had TO GIVE YOU A Bbible in your villages or you cam from a savage religion

    THE Canadian ARE RIGHT….THE ONLY PEOPLE ALLOWED IN N are form a village, slum or third world country WHO contributed nothing to the world such as DAVinci, Einstein..WElll basically you contributed nothing. Everything you have come from the backs of WHITES so basically you bring NOThing and take everything.

    Also, they say blaxks are good for diversity… HHOW???? HOW?? not good to look at, bring no KNowledge or culture. Before you start blah blahing look at what the blacks have done to south AUCkland. All your Academic achievements come from WHITE knowledge you do not contribute anything

    ANNNNND….you look like a cross between a black demon from hell and oppp I CANT SAY THAT.

    BLACKS DEGRADE EVERTHING

    [Jane’s a first time commenter and tempting as it was to leave her bile in the pre-mod or just move it to trash, I thought her thoughts might have some, ahem, educational value. TRP]

    • Ad 7.1

      Good choice TRP.

      The sunlight is glorious today.

      • tsmithfield 7.1.1

        Was that post some sort of false flag op against us righties?

        I can’t believe anyone would seriously put up this sort of crap.

        • Ad 7.1.1.1

          As they say in Nashville, sometimes freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.

          • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1.1

            What would you do
            If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
            What would you do
            If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice
            Would you think about all them people
            Who gave up everything they had
            Would you think about all them War Vets
            And would you start to feel bad
            Freedom isn’t free
            It costs folks like you and me
            And if we don’t all chip in
            We’ll never pay that bill
            Freedom isn’t free
            No, there’s a hefty fuckin’ fee
            And if you don’t throw in your buck ‘o five
            Who will?
            What would you do If someone told you to fight for freedom
            Would you answer the call
            Or run away like a little pussy
            ‘Cause the only reason that you’re here
            Is ’cause folks died for you in the past
            So maybe now it’s your turn
            To die kicking some ass
            Freedom isn’t free
            It costs folks like you and me
            And if we don’t all chip in
            We’ll never pay that bill

        • Tricledrown 7.1.1.2

          You should have seen the post’s on Hobson’s choice site before the election.

      • Cinny 7.1.2

        + 100% Ad

    • Sanctuary 7.2

      Hey Jane be sure to let us all know if they give you any coded messages from Q-anon.

    • OctusSpherus 7.3

      You have the right to form a coherent sentence, too. Exercise that.

  8. Jane 8

    WHITES BEING HELD HOSTAGE IN THEIR OWN COUNTIES BY BLACKS.. HOW IS THAT NOT FASCIST

  9. Jane 9

    YOU DECIDING WHAT IS POSTED>>>HOW IS THAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH

    • tsmithfield 9.1

      Jane, as a right winger who posts here sometimes, perhaps I could give you a few tips for surviving.

      1. People here are generally fair-minded, and listen to what is said if it is done rationally.

      2. State your facts legibly (your first post was hardly readable) and logically. Be assertive by all means, but try and keep it polite and not personally offensive if possible.

      3. Expect to get some disagreement and ridicule since most people here probably don’t agree with you. But that is OK. You just need a tough skin.

      4. The last comment in your first post is absolutely unacceptable. It is overtly racist and offensive probably to most people of any political leaning, and also demonstratebly untrue.

      • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1

        I try to ignore people with…interesting opinions, engaging with them just tends to encourage them

      • Bewildered 9.1.2

        Why is Jane assumed as a right winger or conservative she could easily be a national socialist, to me she is just a Racist with a few issues

      • Anne 9.1.3

        Nice one tsmithfield but don’t be too optimistic. If Jane @7 was capable of rational thought she/he would never have written such an incoherent, sanity challenged rant of such awful hatred.

    • Ad 9.2

      Do check the site guidelines Jane.

      Respect.

      And bring your friends.

    • McGrath 9.3

      You’re comments are very “banjo” and “hillbilly”. Please stop giving us Righties a bad name.

    • mary_a 9.4

      @ Jane … You do sound somewhat bilious! So I take it you won’t be at the protest this evening then?

    • JC 9.5

      your voicing your issues here NOW. Is that not Freedom of Speech … or would you prefer “Letters’ to the Ed” …. and/or some other forum?
      Go Nuts!

  10. Crashcart 10

    I always find it a difficult one to decide if this is a protest that actually accomplishes its goals. The people who will be showing up to this and the speakers thrive on the reaction they get. The bigger the reaction the more important they feel.

    I understand that the best way to handle this is to have a large peaceful protest but lets be honest. There will be plenty on their side who are willing to do whatever it takes to get a reaction and that will inevitably end up being the focus of any coverage. Even the smallest amount of violence will be used by these idiots to increase their profile and try and make them look like the victims who are having their speech limited. Who cares if it is true or if the wider population knows they are full of shit it empowers them with racists and right wing idiots.

    Yes the message these two carry is shit. I would rather let the morons eat their shit sandwich and not vindicate them.

    • tsmithfield 10.1

      Compare and contrast the two videos I posted above. Who do you think comes off better in terms of PR for the left?

  11. Tiger Mountain 11

    with the belligerent attitude of many kiwis online, there is a potential audience for a neo fascist “Migrant/Māori bash” type party to help National get the MMP numbers

    agree with TRP that such a trend could potentially further divide those that really need to be united!

    the common thing with all the surly Trump/Brexit/Racist movements is they manage to overlook the real reason for “rust belts”, a struggling working class, and declining “middle class”–it is the activities of finance capital and corporate global capital that screw them over, not workers from other countries rendered desperate by the very same bunch!

  12. Draco T Bastard 12

    We are told that we are all middle class now, but the reality is that increasingly we are all really working class.

    The reality is that more and more of us are falling into poverty while the rich bludgers take ever more. This process has the inevitable result of collapsing society. And then we have to take into account declining resource availability as well and climate change.

    Capitalism has failed throughout 5000 years of recorded history. Time for us to learn the lesson that it simply doesn’t work.

  13. Chris T 13

    This “They bad ’cause they charge money” thing that has come this week since the Canadians is a bit silly

    Al Gore charges 100-200k to warn about global warming for a couple of hours

    Is that as horrifying?

    • Cinny 13.1

      Nah, that’s probably inspiring as to lauren southern. Plus a free holiday.

      Maybe Al Gore is her poster boy?

    • Ad 13.2

      And it’s $160 for Bob Dylan’s last concert in two weeks in Auckland.

      Cue the outrage! Let Laura bring her guitar!

  14. veutoviper 14

    If anyone is interested, I came across this short video (3+mins) by Hayden Connell (?) from the Spinoff asking how the media should handle S & M. He speaks to a number of people, including Morgan Godfery, but really does not come out any more convinced one way or the other.

    UPDATE – And I also recommend reading Doogs’ comment over on MS’ post on $ & M – link https://thestandard.org.nz/free-speech-champions/#comment-1509553

    • Carolyn_Nth 14.1

      Thanks. This thread also, explains why the Canadian pair are racists and neo-fashes, with some relevant links to vids, if you have the stomach for them:

  15. halfcrown 15

    Here’s an interesting blog I saw on Facebook about free speech

    I do like this line
    “Nobody is free to yell “fire” in a crowded theatre”

    https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-modern-extreme-right-are-just.html

    • Puckish Rogue 15.1

      Here’s the thing, when people say they’re pro free speech they generally tend mean that they’re free speech absolutists, in that if you yell “fire” in a crowded theatre you can be charged (and rightfully so)

      Its easier to say “I support free speech” rather than say “I support free speech unless that speech breaks any of the existing NZ laws that are designed to prosecute that type of speech”

      To me that means the bar to ban must be extremely high and rigorously tested

      • Puckish Rogue 15.1.1

        Dagnabbit, I mean not free speech absolutists 🙁

        • halfcrown 15.1.1.1

          “Dagnabbit, I mean not free speech absolutists”

          I got your meaning there Puckish I thought I was the only one who left words out or misspelt words or used bad grammar
          One thing is for sure I am staying away from my Galaxy TAB A when I come on here as it tends to send before you have a chance to read or correct.

      • halfcrown 15.1.2

        Nice one Puckish

        Frankly, I really don’t know what all the fuss is about I think everybody is playing into their hands. Ignore and they will go away.
        The only thing that concerns me about this so-called “Free Speech” is the ones screaming “Free Speech” could be the ones who will deny us all that privilege if they were in power and it threatened their political beliefs. or existence.

        • Puckish Rogue 15.1.2.1

          Well thats the thing isn’t it, all the people calling for LS & SM to be banned don’t seem to realise that at some point the other side will be in power and then they, or may not, decide to start things they don’t like

  16. adam 16

    Wow more lies about Chris Trotter. So you got evidence he helped organise this event, or are you more than happy to make the standard a target for a libel case?

    • Chris 16.1

      I agree adam. One can disagree with Chris Trotter on this (and I do) but he is certainly not a promoter of a hate speech tour. I doubt Don Brash is either.

      • Tricledrown 16.1.1

        Chris Don Brashes Hobson’s choice site has plenty of this sort of bile.
        He doesn’t stop or criticise any of it.
        It’s only threats of reporting to the Race Relations Conciliator then they take down their racist comments.

    • Careful climbing down off that high horse, Adam. I wrote that the pompous pin dancer Trotter promoted the event, not organised it.

      Arguably, I’ve promoted it too.

      • adam 16.2.1

        So show the evidence? If your talking about at the initial stages you really sucking on the kumara there.

        So, as for recently where has trotter, or brash for that matter, actively promote this event?

        So simple request, show the evidence.

        I’ve seen him call out the totalitarian left for their folly on this issue.

        https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-neoliberal-state-defended-by-of-all.html

        I’m thinking that is that what has got up you nose. Tell ya what – when there are real fascists I promise to let you know. Not these fake ones, who are little more than wannabees.

        • lprent 16.2.1.1

          what?

          Saying the fuckwits are arseholes is totalitarian?

          Od are you trying to say that the operators of venues don’t have a right to refuse acts. That it is totalitarian to refuse moron acts?

          You just need to relax so you don’t sound quite so much like an unthinking idiot.

          • adam 16.2.1.1.1

            I said nothing about the venue or the operators of the venue. Or anything like that, so your comments seem a tad odd. The personal abuse was a nice touch though.

            I was talking about, the accusation that trotter and bash promoted the current, well not so current event.

            • lprent 16.2.1.1.1.1

              As they are promoting that my city must provide the dimwits a city owned venue, despite the liabilities they bring, then yeah – they promoted this tour.

              They could have just organized a space at the Aotea Square for a real dose of “free speech”. That is what real activists do.

              But personally I think that they preferred the cash.

              • adam

                Respectfully disagree.

                That happen at the beginning when the original event was canned. And was made in response to that event being cancelled.

                However, the self promoting wannabe muppets went private, and that created a whole new event. Which I didn’t see either trotter, nor bash for that matter, promote.

    • Carolyn_Nth 17.1

      On my doorstep. May not be able to avoid being there after Aotea Square, even if I wanted to.

    • McGrath 17.2

      My recommendation (to all sides) is have fun and don’t do anything stupid. “It seemed like a good idea at the time” generally ends in tears.

  17. McFlock 18

    Good luck one and all. Except the reason for the season, of course. I hope their hotel toilets back up.

  18. Carolyn_Nth 19

    Now newshub is reporting that Powerstation has cancelled the event tonight – so is this all smoke and mirrors?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/08/lauren-southern-and-stefan-molyneux-s-secret-speaking-location-revealed-as-the-powerstation.html

    • Rosemary McDonald 19.1

      Who was that guy with the microphone…looked like a dick, only smaller?

      Seriously ffolks…this pair of bigots are getting so much media traction…

      • Carolyn_Nth 19.1.1

        Heh! Always a tryer that Gower.

        And now one person is tweeting that multiple venues are on standby for the Canadian pair tonight so go to Aotea Square and wit for news

        https://twitter.com/CentralCommiTi/status/1025204407946772486

        Edit: the organisers of tonight’s anti-racist protest say:

        Many of you have heard that the white supremacist event has been cancelled tonight. TAFA has reason to believe that the Powerstation cancellation is a red herring intended to misdirect people opposed to racism and to disrupt our rally tonight.

    • Cinny 19.2

      Funny was just thinking before how many awesome gigs I’d been to at the PowerStation. Yup the owner is correct he must have seen it all, those death metal mosh pits are full on. Oh happy memories.

      Then was thinking, gosh it’s just a short walk up the hill and over the bridge for those down at the square, that’s handy.

      So they are refunding tickets for the s&m circus, and getting rather aggro about having to do so. Well I guess that messes up their free holiday… haha.

  19. Chris T 20

    Lol

    Even when it’s cancelled it has to be ruse?

    Some people need to get a grip

  20. Anne 21

    After the despicable display of ignorance and disrespect when they arrived yesterday:

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363217/controversial-alt-right-pair-land-in-nz

    It could be the so-called “pressure” has included death threats etc. which is why they cancelled the event.

    And they have no-one but themselves to blame.

  21. marty mars 22

    Victory. A small one but necessary. The rabid right are on the run at least for this moment. This will add strength for our continued struggle against them. Yay.

  22. Booker 23

    So, two losers whose ideas are barely coherent just got 1+ month of free publicity and now get to claim they couldn’t speak in NZ because of the intolerant left. Well done The Standard, you’re part of this outcome.

    Things like this make me embarrassed to say I’m left wing. The vast majority of NZers don’t care about these two, their views or whether they get to speak or not. Frankly, people have got better things to do and bigger problems to worry about. And instead of working towards solutions for the problems facing the majority of NZers this site and numerous others in this country just wasted a month on the extreme minority views of two foreigners. You’re all getting a round of real slow clapping, congratulations on wasting your time and handing them the victory, it would be extremely difficult to help these two more if you tried.

    • McFlock 23.1

      Meh.

      So the two jerks will go back to the foul corner of youtube from whence they came. A few more clicks, a bit more cash, but still largely preaching to the hate-choir and not regarded as a respectable part of NZ political discourse.

      Pretty good result, really.

      • Tricledrown 23.1.1

        NZ has shown it won’t tolerate neo Nazi dictators any more than 70 years ago many New Zealanders fought and gave their lives to fight this demagogery.
        Nipping in the bud before these slimy propaganda purveyors get any foothold.
        That was the mistake of the German people not standing up to these nasty bullies at the beginning.
        I love NZ we don’t want divisive racist fundamentalists in this country.

    • Cinny 23.2

      Yeah because it’s easier not to talk about such people and not to inform others of their existence.

      I doubt having to refund all the tickets they sold is a victory for them.

      Regardless they hate the left, so I’m not surprised they voiced it in such a context.

      Personally it’s been a rather educating experience for myself. Cup half full around here.

    • One Two 23.3

      Correct

      You’ve attracted some responses that are equal reason why the two canadians are anything…

      Folk seem to have lost the defence mechanism of ‘thought’…

      All very regressive…

      • lprent 23.3.1

        You appear to be against a freedom of expression.

        For some reason saying that these particular canadians are greedy offensive idiots is a problem.

        But it is just me exerting my freedom of expression.

        Just like all of the people freezing their arse off in a public space at the square.

        For some reason I don’t see Don Brash or Jordan Williams standing up in a public space exerting their freedom of expression.

        Probaly too gutless or they can’t figure our a way up making money out of it eh?

        • One Two 23.3.1.1

          Freedom of expression…freedom of speech…completely and for all forms in which they take…

          There are levels to everything…

          The canadians are like a school yard prank…trapping the unaware…

          Moths to the flame…as I’ve stated elsewhere on this thread…

          Regardless of whichever way ‘the left’ express the outcome as they see it…they well and truly gave it away…by feeding the flames…

          Regressive…

          • McFlock 23.3.1.1.1

            Just because you’re smarter than everyone else doesn’t mean these people would have no or less effect if they were ignored by everyone other than their fans.

          • lprent 23.3.1.1.2

            Demonstrating that idiots should and can be called idiots in public is always useful for society. That was a decision made by a lot of individuals individually.

            For the jerkoffs and their deluded fans to call high price and restrictive non-public appearances as being “free speech” is a farce and should be highlighted.

  23. Cinny 24

    Caolan Robertson, an agent for Ms Southern, told Newshub they could not find another event and it was all over.

    “We can’t fix the event in the next 24 hours, there’s no other venues that are going to do it because of the massive pressure from the far-left in this country,” he told Newshub.

    And he’s threatening retaliation against those who forced the cancellation of the event.

    “We’re going to go after the venue, we’re going to go after the media, we’re going to go after all the people who’ve decided to slander it,” he told Newshub.

    Lolz looks like someone can’t handle the jandal and is having a little tantrum. Funny as.

    • indiana 24.1

      I guess bakers can decline to bake cakes for for whose views they disagree with now.

      • McFlock 24.1.1

        hah.
        Always could.

        Just aren’t allowed to be dicks about it.

      • Dukeofurl 24.1.2

        What part of the rights protection says ‘ white supremcists’ can get any venue they like?
        While sexual orientation is mentioned as a specific protection against discrimination.

        • McFlock 24.1.2.1

          Well, s21(j) of the Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on the grounds of political opinion.

          Basically, if that was the Powerstation owner then she’s done a Goff, but she might actually be in direct control of the facility and have made the decision based on that belief. Even if they had good grounds for cancellation based on T&C of their space hire (and normally there’s a blanket “get out of gaol free” clause), the statement about not wanting those sorts of people there could be actionable.

          I suspect Powerstation would win if the fake name story is true – it goes to good faith negotiation as another reason to ditch the fascists, and also the last minute security issues – but it’s something I would have wanted to avoid with some careful media control. Funnily enough a group I’ve had contact with has had a similar sort of last-minute cancellation, and apparently the local rag was sniffing around for a story. But there seems to have been a decent lid on what was really a non-story anyway (shit just happens sometimes).

          • Ad 24.1.2.1.1

            That kind of venue cancellation happened plenty of times in the 1910s and 1920s when Labour and trade unions were being formed – and worse. They were actions against foreign radicals who happened to be socialists and Marxists and communists. Who then went on to form the Labour Party and then in time the first Labour government.

            But those of course were the kind of free speech to be protected, not the kind to be suppressed with crowds from the left.

    • dukeofurl 24.2

      “We’re going to go after the venue, we’re going to go after the media, we’re going to go after all the people who’ve decided to slander it,”

      Going after ? Wasnt that what it always was about.

    • Sabine 24.3

      is that not how they raise their funds?

  24. Chris T 25

    I take it the people on here calling it a victory will be lining up to donate to the venue owner when they are sued for cancelling a few hours before it was happening?

    • McFlock 25.1

      I take it the people on here calling it a victory will be lining up to donate to the venue owner when they are sued for cancelling a few hours before it was happening?

      Lie with dogs, get fleas.

    • Tricledrown 25.2

      Yeah right I wouldn’t hold your breath for a refund from these mercenary meatheads.
      They don’t have morals just nasty Dogma.
      Was it Jordan Williams who was brokering this deal with the Devil.
      How low can you go, bottom feeders!

    • dukeofurl 25.3

      I doubt the venues terms and conditions would give you a leg to stand on. They misrepresented who they were ‘frontrunning’ for.

      Southern could always make her ‘speech’ in Aotea Sq,

  25. Dennis Frank 26

    Jim Mora talked to a guy who saw them in Sydney (seemed to be a journo) & tried to ascertain if there was any hate speech: apparently not. His impression was that they were genuine in their concerns, but selectively chose evidence to make western culture seem good & immigrant culture bad. So they front as classic propagandists. Nothing worse. Leftist hysteria is misrepresenting them.

    Jim’s two panellists came down in favour of free speech for people of differing opinions to themselves. I suspect the tide of public opinion will surge against the leftists trying to close it down. 73% of the AM show audience polled in favour of allowing them to come here & do their thing.

    • Tricledrown 26.1

      Dennis Frank 73% of the am show that’s scientific
      2 hosts on Jim Moras right wing opinion show.
      Wow why don’t you go down to the local RSA and poll them.

    • veutoviper 26.2

      It was Luke Kinsella who wrote a review for the Australian media of the S & M event in Sydney last Sat night. His review was carried here by the Herald a few days ago – https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12097931

      I posted it on here on OM on 31 July and Carolyn Nth provided a couple of comments about him. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-31-07-2018/#comment-1508452

      Here is a link to the 15 min audio of that section of the Panel covering the S & M event cancellation and the interview with Kinsella.

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018656554/power-station-pulls-plug-on-far-right-pair

      • Dennis Frank 26.2.1

        “Like her radical left-wing enemies, Lauren understands half the story of whatever she talks about (Islam, feminism, multiculturalism), and thinks it’s the whole story.”

        Pretty much sums up the entire controversy in a single sentence, eh? Well done that journo. Thing is, showing her age at 23 only lowers her credibility among more sophisticated folk – not amongst her target audience. To them, she’ll seem an effective advocate. And in a democracy, there’s no law against propaganda.

        To expose the lack of credibility of those at the protest tonight, reporters needed to have asked them if they hate her. I would have liked to see them obviously lying when saying “No” to the camera because it’s non-pc to be a hater so there’s no way they’d be honest and tell the truth. So they call the Canadians haters in a childish attempt to mask that truth, and it fools nobody!

    • marty mars 26.3

      The panel and that guest were useless – shallow thinkers with a me first attitude.

    • miravox 26.4

      Here’s another review, from someone live tweeting at the Sydney event.

      Make of that what you will.

  26. Koff 27

    It seems that the venue owner cancelled the event after learning about the views of Southern and Molyneux

    “The minute I heard who it was I cancelled,” Mullins said.

    I understand it’s all about freedom of speech, but it’s the content of the freedom of speech that I found offensive.”

    Mullins apologised to “all who have supported the Powerstation and who we may have offended”.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/106002242/aucklands-powerstation-owner-apologises-for-booking-controversial-speakers

    • Anne 27.1

      Interesting Koff. It seems the venue was booked in someone else’s name so the owner didn’t know it was for Southern and Molyneaux. Typical underhand subterfuge we can expect from such low life.

  27. Tricledrown 28

    Don Maori basher my wife is Singaporean what a horrible excuse for a human being.

  28. lprent 29

    Cancelled. Damn finished work early. Oh well looks like I will head to the Q for some song and dance…

    After I see what turns up at Aotea.

    Good decision by the Powerstation

  29. veutoviper 30

    Carolyn Nth who is presumably down in Aotea Square at present put up two Twitter links to organisers of tonight’s get together at 19.1.1

    As I had trouble refinding them, here they are again as they * seem to be live tweeting from Aotea Square.

    * So far the first link is, but some pictures on the second link from earlier this evening.

  30. Carolyn_Nth 31

    Home from the Aotea Square event. It was a very good experience of free free speech.

    Marama Davidson was the first speaker. She talked about the responsibility of having a public platform, and status whereby the cameras are switched on when she speaks. She said she was nervous. She said for her the responsible thing to do was to stand up and speak out against vicious racism.

    Like all the speakers she was very positive about the diversity and unit of the crowd in the Square.

    Davidson said she would continue to speak out against racism, even with the death threats and the abuse thrown at her – on social media, I think. She said the standard abuse to women like her was to call her a ‘cunt.’ She said she was proud to stand up and be a “powerful cunt”, and that a cunt is a very good thing to be – we all came from one.

    There were speakers from a range of groups and communities (immigrants, Muslims,Christians, unionists including a nurse), some strong and uplifting statements by tangata whenua about the violence of the colonisation of Aotearoa, some waiata and group chants.

    Hobsons’ P;edge came in for some strong criticism for it’s racism and intolerance – especiaLLy Don Brash and Bob Jones. Tonight’s success was celebrated but also there were statements about the struggles ahead 0 against Hobson’s Pledge, and other racist/neofash speakers being imported in the near future, eg Pauline Hanson.

    • Cinny 31.1

      Sounds like it was a fantastic evening for everyone at Aotea Square, that should always happen, and just did.

      What a good buzz Carolyn, thanks ever so much for the update.

      Had a giggle when I watched the 6pm news, freedom of speech was alive and well as they didn’t blur out the “fuck off” bit on someones sign, lmao 🙂

      It was absolute carnage here in Motueka, bodies lying everywhere…. Friday night at the skating rink….. it was a blast 🙂

    • marty mars 31.2

      Thanks for the report. Sounds awesome.

  31. gsays 32

    It is frustrating that it seems to take an outsider to unite us.

    Doubly so to be against something.

    Reminds me of the reason for the formation of the National party: to oppose the Labour party.

  32. joe90 33

    Oh joy! Over on the twittler, bedwetter is rather exercised, muttering cultural Marxism etc, by Ms Mullin’s decision.

  33. BM 34

    The polarization of NZ continues.

    Bad times ahead.

  34. joe90 35

    Easy to find.

    Since the @Lauren_Southern/@StefanMolyneux event was cancelled, a few of us have nowhere to go and so we'll be meeting up at a bar nearby.If you're keen, come along!(The Corner Store, 25 Mount Eden Rd, Eden Terrace, Auckland 1023 – around 7:30)— Danny Duchamp (@dannycantalk) August 3, 2018

  35. Delia 36

    Those two must be really hacked off,no money made here….could take in a Maori cultural show to make their visit worthwhile…just let me know media when they have gone.

    • Incognito 36.1

      I think that’s too simplistic. They’ve enjoyed massive exposure and thus it can be viewed as one huge PR/marketing campaign. After all, they meant business.

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