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River of Kiwis now flood to Oz

Written By: - Date published: 2:29 pm, June 22nd, 2011 - 56 comments
Categories: election 2008, im/migration, national - Tags:

Well, the Government’s managed to set another record: 3300 Kiwis have managed to ‘catch up’ with Australia in a month.

That’s the new record for number of Kiwis leaving for Australia, set in May.  The previous record of 2900 was set in 1979.

And it’s not mainly Christchurch.  Christchurch contributed an extra 300 people over last May’s figures, but the rest of the country contributed another 1400.

Why are people leaving?  In despair at the lack of vision and economic plan of John Key’s government.  Because they see a better life in Australia, with higher wages and more opportunities.

I was fortunate enough to hear Rod Oram speak earlier this week.  He described the last budget as the worst of the 15 he has scrutinised closely since arriving in the country.

Why? Many reasons (over-promise & under-deliver, over-stating public debt problem, over-reliance on over-optimistic Treasury forecasts etc), but the biggy was the lack of forward-thinking.  There was no investment or plan for the future.  We need R&D and tertiary investment to grow the skills and ideas to increase our country’s wealth and generate the higher income, better jobs Kiwis want: both were cut in real terms.  There was no way out of the mire.

And that’s what the flood of Kiwis jumping the ditch see: no hope here.

We deserve better – a government with a plan at the very least.

56 comments on “River of Kiwis now flood to Oz ”

  1. Craig Glen Eden 1

    Posted this just last night:

    My best friend told me tonight he is off to Australia better paid job plus 9% employer contribution from employer, leaves in September family to follow in December. He does not want to leave but the opportunity is just to good to pass up given he cant get ahead in NZ.

    This guy is a CEO here but like he says National have no plan and Key is a total clown, its all turning to shit real fast in NZ so he feels he has to go, cant say I blame him.
    Reply

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      It’s a real problem. Warmer, wealthier, more upbeat, and only 3 1/2 hours away.

      Why not, when you see how the Government is abandoning its own people to the vagaries of income inequality, free market forces and private sector profiteering.

    • Lanthanide 1.2

      Hopefully he’ll remember to vote in the election!

      • rosy 1.2.1

        Yes, I really hope Mana, the Greens and Labour are gearing-up to convince their overseas supporters to vote.

        • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1

          A million NZ’ers living overseas, over half will be of voting age.

          That’s massive.

          • Hanswurst 1.2.1.1.1

            Well, this NZer living overseas will definitely be voting for the left – I’m even visiting again beforehand to renew my eligibility. I’m not going to be overseas forever, and I don’t want to come back to a country that’s been driven into the mud by the current stupid clowns year upon year.

            • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Exactly. The fear is that they will run down our health and education systems so much that its hard for any one to choose to live here even if they love the country.

            • HC 1.2.1.1.1.2

              Hanswurst – bring in skilled labour from Europe and certain Asian countries, let them make the products they make back there, with natural ingredients grown and produced here, let them create a trade where they train apprentices, where we learn how to make sausages like in Europe (Wurst part of your name well addressed, I hope), let them make excellent cheeses, wine, herbal products, honey, hams, sausages, pates, fish products and whatever else may come to mind, and we will have a fertile value added economy.

              But no, we must export more logs, milk powder, butter, wool, and whatever is produced in bulk and without refinement.

              That is the shit the wrong advisors told us in the early 1990’s . I remember well that American “expert” selling his book here talking about “cometitive advantages” and Shipley, Richardson and Bolger lapping it all up as the finest recipe for NZs future.

              Look at the world! Countries that serve tourists, that hold language courses for foreign students, that produce primary agricultural and similar products are amongst the poorer, less paid and disadvantaged societies.

              Those that invest in knowledge, skills and attract value added manufacturing are leading. We have been hoodwinked and betrayed into total ignorance and dumbness. That is why this country is losing its citizens and used by migrants as a revolving back door to better territories.

              NZ is screwed by repeated idiots running the show. Throw them out and bloody well revolt!

  2. freedom 2

    It would be interesting to see some accurate figures that show how many of the ‘from the rest of NZ’ were actually recently relocated residents of CHCH.  I suspect it is a lot higher than the 800 reported earlier today.
     

    • Craig Glen Eden 2.1

      Really freedom proud Cantabs calling them selfs Aucks?What a desperate attempt to try and blame the CHCH earth quakes for this Governments appalling performance.National totally bereft of any plan.

      • freedom 2.1.1

        i doubt it was the people’s decision as to how they were counted. I can picture the data collector ” most recent address only please, we don’t need to know your life history.”
        Actually a liitle amazed that the figure isn’t higher.  I am also considering relocating out of NZ if National get back in.  Not to OZ, there are other places in the world that are not little America yet. i cannot afford to right now but there are prospects being investigated.
         
        I was imagining what staying in NZ under another National Government would be like and i settled on looking into the barrels of a loaded shotgun and paying someone else to pull the trigger

  3. millsy 3

    To me that is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. After all, there are:

    1) Cumplosory super – meaning that you get 9% of your wages taken from you and given to a Gordon Gekko type who will lose it on the stock market

    2) No ACC – you have to fork out expensively for accident and health insurance etc with no assurance of payout – and their health system is pretty dodgy – you have ladies giving birth in toilets, and you still gotta get health insurance, or else you die.

    3) Everything is expensive, rent, houses, petrol, etc and so on.

    4) Toll roads galore

    5) The Labour party there is more right than our Labour party (and from my understanding, has been for the past 30 to 40 years)

    6) You cannot walk through Sydney without stumbling into the middle of a mob war (I dont mean pissy BP’s and Mongerel mob with baseball bats, I mean Italian and Lebanese Mafia with sub-machine guns).

    7) very corrupt cops – the cops own half the brothels in kings cross

    8) You lose your job, there is no safety net

    • millsy 3.1

      Oh yeah, and more Australians send their kids to private schools, so you have a country full of elite snobs, and its packed with rednecks.

    • Colonial Viper 3.2

      I can tell you that petrol in Australia is cheaper (at least in metropolitan areas) than in NZ. And that’s *including* our soft exchange rate.

      From memory it was ~A$1.60/L or thereabouts.

      Yeah there are a few issues though, no place is perfect. But you can overlook a few little things when you are being paid 40% more 😎

    • ghostwhowalksnz 3.3

      No the 9% is not taken from you- thats the employers contrib. Employees can volunteer another 9% or lessor amount.

      While there is no ACC for 24 hr coverage, employers pay ACC type premiums ( and employees can sue) and there is the vehicle ACC system like we have for motor cars

    • Deadly_NZ 3.4

      And what do you get if you are unfortunatly stuck in NZ?
      Kiwi saver Just made it more expensive to get the same money. May not be gambled by a Gordon Gecko type, But is robbed by a Blinglish type of incompetant.

      Sky Rocketing costs and huge waiting lists to get anything done in a govt dept, as all have been gutted.

      Acc??? A company who will wriggle and bluster and bullshit about the services they offer you, but don’t give them to you.

      Petrol at 2.07 and climbing???? food prices thru the roof, doctors with too big a list so that the poor and sick get poorer and sicker.

      Multi milllion dollar holiday highways that go nowhere.

      Gotta be better than the fuckwits in charge now.

      Napier and other places used to be the same Black power and mongrel mob wallys fighting and scaring little old ladies.

      And the cops here?? May not be corrupt, but they could not catch a burglar unless they pulled him over on a bullshit traffic charge.

      There are NO JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      So Millsy your beloved NACTS are just as bad.

      • millsy 3.4.1

        Whoa there Deadly.

        I think you need to up/down your medication, because last time I looked, I didnt ‘love’ NACT.

        I am just pointing out a lot of the downsides about heading to OZ, and the grass isnt always greener.

        Anyway, by the looks of things, the Liberal-National coalition looks like it could get back into power, and Abbot really makes Brash look like a Marxist.

  4. ChrisH 4

    I reckon the only reason people aren’t bailing en masse is because of the risk of ending up unemployed in Oz with no dole. That’s the trans-Tasman equivalent of the Berlin Wall, if it were not for that fact, New Zealand would collapse in the next three months.

  5. Peter 5

    The sad thing is most probably don’t want to leave but feel they have little choice.

    • Shona 5.1

      So right Peter. Those of us who worked in Oz in the 70’s and early 80’s then returned to NZ to invest and raise our families are now watching our offspring reluctantly repeat their parents experience. Because they simply can’t earn a living wage in NZ. They don’t want to live there but the advantages and opportunities are too great, We have failed the younger generations. I don’t want my grandchildren to be Aussies but it just keeps on happening . Any body with any get up and go has got up and gone!
      Key continues to successfully emulate his role model and hero, Piggy Muldoon.

      • Deadly_NZ 5.1.1

        But the worst of it is that unlike those of us who did the big OE, and came back to NZ to raise families and work, Our Kids are just looking at what the so called government is doing and saying “fuck this i’m out of here” And they DON’T come back. And if I could afford it I would be Gone long ago.

        • SBS 5.1.1.1

          This is probably one of the most stupid comments I’ve seen here. No one bases their decision to move on the government of the day but rather on their own personal circumstances. NZ is a small village and given that Kiwis have easy access to the UK and Australia to work then it shouldn’t be any surprise that we wish to live and experience a more cosmopolitan society and gain valuable work experience.

          In particular Australia is a global aberration where a unskilled worker can potentially, especially in Western Australia, much more than they could ever earn anywhere else so its more of a tragedy to lose hardworking members of our working class while being left with the dregs who can’t even be bothered to ante up the $150 required for a one way flight to Oz but continue, like parasites, to suck up the welfare. Unless the labour party is prepared to move the minimum wage to something like $30 an hour we’d lose then anyway.

          Disclosure: currently living and working in Sydney but planning to return so I know about the motivations about why kiwis move there than most of the posters here who quite frankly are just a waste of air.

          • Reality Bytes 5.1.1.1.1

            @SBS “No one bases their decision to move on the government of the day but rather on their own personal circumstances. ”

            Ever hear of political refugees. Oh I bet you many many people reluctantly choose to leave their homeland every minute solely due to their government, and not due to personal circumstances. Infact the people that have the ability to move probably have better resources(personal circumstances) than most of their peers!

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.2

            Disclosure: currently living and working in Sydney but planning to return so I know about the motivations about why kiwis move there than most of the posters here who quite frankly are just a waste of air.

            There are 700,000 NZ’ers living in Australia. How many of them have you met?

            “Planning to return” What exactly does that mean? Planning to come back if Key and English get back in eh?

            Unless the labour party is prepared to move the minimum wage to something like $30 an hour we’d lose then anyway.

            We’ll start by giving people a fair days pay for a fair days work. NZ workers should be able to afford NZ milk, NZ beef and NZ lamb every day.

            • SBS 5.1.1.1.2.1

              Quite a few actually since it’s easier to pick out the accent so why don’t you STFU about shit you don’t know since you’re not here but in some kind of lowly public service role praying your pointless paper shuffling job is safe from the next round budget cutbacks.

              We expats are always talking about why we left NZ and the reasons are varied. I’ve never come across any who claims that they left because of the depredations of the national administration. To be honest it seems indicative of some kind of mental illness but after reading some of the posts on this site I am not surprised.

              @Reality Bytes: I wasn’t talking about political refugees but Kiwis living in Australia so your ‘insight’ is actually irrelevant. However there are enough leftard wingnuts on this site who actually think NZ is actually some kind of fascistic state.

              • Colonial Viper

                SBS you’re a lowly scavenger looking to pick over the bones of the NZ economy for your National mates right?

                you don’t know since you’re not here but in some kind of lowly public service role praying your pointless paper shuffling job is safe from the next round budget cutbacks.

                😀 So I guess if National get back in this year you are coming back to your home country as a hatchet man for them then?

                We expats are always talking about why we left NZ and the reasons are varied. I’ve never come across any who claims that they left because of the depredations of the national administration.

                “We expats” all 700,000 of you lol so did they mention anything about NZ’s low wages, poor working conditions, minimal and narrow industries, lack of career advancement opportunities, not valuing the training of trades and graduates, endless budget and capability cuts, shit management culture and general lack of science, technology and management innovation?

              • rosy

                No one bases their decision to move on the government of the day but rather on their own personal circumstances.

                Twice now we’ve taken opportunities to leave NZ – the first was when Shipley was in power and we were happy to be out of hearing range. We made a real celebration of casting our votes in London for Labour in the 1999 election and came home 18 months later. This time, after a year away, it’ll be the same. The political situation did influence our decision to take up an overseas contract, and if NACT get back in we’ll be looking to extend it.

                edit – CV you missed the reduction in real political discourse in the MSM and shrinking democratic processes.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Chur. Some of us will always stay behind and fight fight fight these traitors and sell outs in the trenches and in the hills, every inch of the way.

                  So we’ll look forwards to you being back in NZ before too long 🙂

                  • rosy

                    Don’t mistake leaving for giving up the fight – still working for NZ, have our home there and are learning, learning learning. Nice though that I don’t have to see the NAct mob on the TV everyday – saying nothing meaningful and selling us out in secret. I’d love to be home soon 😉

              • Reality Bytes

                @SBS

                Fair enough, I just thought that sounded like quite a sweeping generalization. I was meaning globally. But hey even you backtracked and acknowledged that some people with certain political views may consider themselves repressed and think NZ is actually some kind of fascistic state, I personally don’t, but hey if those people chose to leave because of their government, then you have acknowledged and illustrated how my original point is in fact relevant to NZ after all.

            • jagilby 5.1.1.1.2.2

              “We’ll start by giving people a fair days pay for a fair days work. NZ workers should be able to afford NZ milk, NZ beef and NZ lamb every day.”

              So moving the minimum wage up to $15/hour is going to do that?

              Sure for the people who manage to keep their jobs at minimum wage. What about that next marginal employee who an employer judges too expensive to take on??? What about the 16 year old who leaves college with no qualifications and is priced out of the labour market?

              Oh yeah, the tax payer will pick up the increasing bill for their NZ milk, beef, lamb and cookies. Such a sustainable idea… why has no one thought of that???

              • Colonial Viper

                Oh brilliance jagilby!

                Here’s a simple answer – employers who cannot afford to pay a fairs day wages for a fair days work should close down and make way in the market place for someone who has a better business model and can afford to.

                What about the 16 year old who leaves college with no qualifications and is priced out of the labour market?

                Yeah thank goodness then the National Government is on the ball with apprenticeships, tertiary training programmes and public employment schemes to make sure this doesn’t happen – not!

                Because if the private sector can’t handle the challenge, the public sector will!

                Oh yeah, the tax payer will pick up the increasing bill for their NZ milk, beef, lamb and cookies. Such a sustainable idea… why has no one thought of that???

                Yep. The top 1000 richest New Zealanders control roughly $100B worth of wealth. So if we wanted to make sure that our youth is educated properly and prepared to become productive contributors to the economy, we can tap into that little fund.

                And trust me, none of them will have to give up their vintage champagne, their BMW 7 series with heated leather seats or their first class travel. They’ll be fine.

        • jagilby 5.1.1.2

          Actually – I probably am the age of “your kids” and it isn’t this Government, far from it – it was the previous one that saw a History teacher as finance minister (who crowed about leaving the cupboards bare and demonises “rich pricks” – along with you lot) and the thought of the next labour govt burying the final nails in the coffin that scares the living daylights out of me when I think about returning to NZ.

          You have your collective heads so far up your arse that you fail to realise that you lot are not the solution but rather encompass everything that holds NZ back.

          • Jim Nald 5.1.1.2.1

            Well, so National is so ineffectual that it can’t turn things around? National did campaign to close the gap with Oz. That billboard was the first one they launched on 1 Sep 2008. And I voted for them.

            Labour: if National blames you for it, then make the case that when you’re next in Government, you will review and reverse the policies of the past.

            Phil Goff: you can have our mandate to reverse all the shortcomings of Cullen’s Labour Government of the 2000s, Richardson’s Government of the 1990s, and the Douglas’ ACT-in-Labour-drag Government of 1980s.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2.2

            You have your collective heads so far up your arse that you fail to realise that you lot are not the solution but rather encompass everything that holds NZ back.

            Yeah because lower wages for all of us would really move NZ forward.

            Or more precisely, would move the asset wealthy capitalist employer class forward.

            Small but important difference there eh? 🙂

          • rosy 5.1.1.2.3

            a History teacher as finance minister

            A Doctor of Social and Economic History and lecturer (Otago University,and Australian National University) as finance minister. There, FIFY.

            • Jim Nald 5.1.1.2.3.1

              And what about the current Finance Minister, Simon William English?

              English (not a pun) literature and Commerce degrees?

              Unlike a PhD, is that like just a simple simon’s bachelors?

              • Colonial Viper

                And I guess Jerry Brownlee might be able to make a door or two for busted Christchurch houses. Using the local school’s woodwork shop you know.

  6. tc 6

    Hilarious millsy ever thought of standup. Oh the sarcasm.

  7. ianupnorth 7

    I was recently on the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast – a few reflections
     
    1) The kids working the rides at Dreamworld and Whitewater World were mainly 20 something Maori kids; they were doing a pretty mundane job, but they were happy, were earning a good wage and had a good quality of life; when I chatted to them they were from all over NZ; they had left whanau behind, who they missed, but they had no regrets.
     
    2) The cars on the road were mainly pretty new, e.g. under 5 years old; people dressed well, people looked happy. Conversely, we have three cars the newest is over 5 years old, and despite earning way above the median salary, I wouldn’t say we were as well off.
     
    3) Property prices were on a par with here; oh, and you get a $5K first time buyers grant and interest free for solar electricity and solar hot water.
     
    4) Petrol was cheaper (read way cheaper) – and they had this strange thing called public transport!
     
    5) The only things that were more expensive were bananas (thanks to their cyclones) and beer.

    6) And contrary to common beliefs (and I so want this not to be the case) – the locals were very, very friendly!
     
    It really made me think what the hell am I doing in NZ? I could earn 75% more, plus get employer paid superannuation and be far better off.

    • Reality Bytes 7.1

      Man it’s posts/opinions like this that make me consider moving there. Or at the very least taking a long working holiday there sometime 🙂

      You do paint the picture well, it’s not all Big city snobbyness there like some people make it out to be. Aussies and aussie residents really are (for the most part) very genuinely friendly easy going people, I really notice that every time I’ve visited the place, and I’ve always enjoyed that aspect.

      • fabregas4 7.1.1

        I was brought up in the days of not liking Aussie – all due to sports. Finally went for a trip there and couldn’t believe how:
        clean and tidy it was
        how nice everyone was
        how they liked Kiwis
        how shopkeepers and shop assistants were actually helpful
        how people went the extra mile.

        I love NZ but it is getting harder and harder to stay here. Sad very sad.

    • wil 7.2

      I too was surprised by the helpfullness of the locals.Even the attractive women don’t think you’re trying to chat them up when asking for help unlike in NZ.

  8. HC 8

    Waltzing Matilda, waltzing Matilda, yeah I’ll come waltzing with you, dear Matilda, I’ll come!

    Well, I wish I could, but I am stuck here in this place and am totally determined to shake the f-ing shit out of governments, the dull, dumbed down, and indifferent or resignating people we have left. I am all for a good round of smashing revolt like it was a Queen St riot some many years ago. That is how I feel. I do not say that I would do it though. The boys in blue may wish to talk to me if I would. So I am a very sensible and reasonable chap. But if this government and others to follow will push it just a bit further, I would not be surprised if we will not soon have riots in Otara, Mangere, Manukau, Avondale, Glenfield or whereever in Greater Auckland. You may of course add the same kinds of suburbs of Porirua, Lower Hutt and so forth in Wellington, certain ones in over stressed CH CH, Dunedin, or in certain regions.

    People are on edge now. I see and hear it every day. It has never been so tense, edgy, hostile and hopeless in Aotearoa NZ since I came here about 30 years ago. I have never known it to be this bad. We are indeed in a climate of envy, hatred, racism, rich and poor divide, total disrespect for any government departments and the government itself telling us all is getting better. Nobody really believes this, except the ones in the elitarian areas. So John Key, the traitor of most, the glossy mag face, the ever smiling assassin, the hollow man of false demeanour, the face lifted too many times, the schemer and easy maneuverist in the rich and powerful territory of this God forsaken land, he is now starting to yearn, yes yearn for his sunny retirement home on Hawaii.

    He has to announce tomorrow the most difficult and hated realities to many in the second largest city of the country. That many will have to give up their homes. That though will only address parts of the large city down south. It will by no means give answers to most. So the loyal Cantabrians will in their majority continue to be tested for years to come. What temptation there may be over the other side of the Tasman. It is dry (mostly), at times too wet (in Q-land), yet it is so much better equipped with resources the world need, with riches, opportunities, and better living standards. So this so well blessed country full of fertility of water on this side is unable to compete with that dry territory over there, where Taipan snake and poisonous spiders say good night to each other. What the hell has gone wrong with NZ? It is greed, wrong policies, excessive capitalism, envy, division, political experiments, and above all the high treason of the elite that own most of it – and US!

  9. HC 9

    There are too many idiots in this country, that is why it is given up so easily. If you had brains and guts you would overthrow idiot governments and bring in something constructive and better. But because most Kiwis are so gutless, nobody does. They tend to put the houses and flats up for sale, cash in and get the next plae out. That is NOT patriotism, that is cowardice, no matter how much I try to understand peoples needs. Go to other places on the planet and wars would be fought over this land. But the frustrated Kiwi sells and runs as a coward! Leave it to the wrong government and new migrants then, who is to blame???

    • ianupnorth 9.1

      Spot on HC; been here for 10 years; under the Clark administration I felt, safe, secure and that I was living in a compassionate country that genuinely cared for its own, for it’s back yard (the pacific islands) and the global environment.
       
      The past two and a bit years have been awful. I have been restructured at work twice, we have lost 25% of our staff but are expected to produce the same outcomes. Financially my family are worse off, we spend a fair bit of time looking through the ‘reduced’ section of the supermarket, buy only what is on special, and going out – well that’s a thing of the past. Bear in mind my wife and I both work and have a relatively low mortgage! (and we are not living a very ‘rich’ life).
       
      If it was not for the age of my kids (years 11 and 13 at high school) we would have left a year or so ago.
       
      But HC is so correct – it is the idiots who cannot or choose not to actually see what is going on; I have never lived in a country where people are taken in so much by the rich; they seem to hold them in high esteem whilst, say a union leader, is seen as a pariah.

  10. come get some 10

    and i’m one of them, yay for being on $10 more NZ an hour here (first year into my industry)

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Yeah I know a store manager from Christchurch who was on less than NZ$20/hr over here, she is on roughly A$27/hr now doing basically the same job, but in Australia.

  11. Alun 11

    We have just lost our business in NZ and so we’ve essentially lost everything. Thankfully my family are lending me the money to get to Australia and get settled as I can’t find any work here in Northland that will sustain my partner and I and give us any semblance of quality of life. I hope that National don’t get back in after the next election as I would like to come back to a country that isn’t completely f**ked in a few years, but I suspect I might have to stay in Australia for a decade or two unfortunately as the bulk of the voting public seem to be mentally retarded at the moment – it’s like they’re under some trance.. it’s wierd and I want to get out before I succumb to it too.

  12. fabregas4 12

    I’ve always believed that our compaines have had a competitive advantage because of the type of country NZ is (was). A great place to bring up kids, safe, clean, happy. People wanted to come here and most of us knew we were lucky and so if pay was slightly higer elsewhere it was ok.

    Most of that has changed though. That advantage is gone. Broken by successive governments and greedy employers and far right policy. This ironically has been coupled with CEO’s from overseas taking all the best jobs and demanding overseas rates of pay and conditions because that is the global market and driving the average guys wage down because that is the global market!

    Oz looks good to me too just because they are not so dumb as to let all this happen to them.

  13. leftiewestie 13

    Let them go to OZ and be treated like second class citizens. If the opinion that Aussies have of NZers living in their country is anything to go by then the best ones stay here anyway!!

    However, I would like to see the stats broken down to know the number of new NZers who make the trans Tasman move. By this I mean people who come to NZ to get a passport then use their NZ passport to get into OZ which is their ultimate aim in the first place.

  14. mik e 14

    yeah that phd in the history of economics teacher got the economy to grow by 28% by volume over 9 years while the double dipper has only managed less than 1% by volume in 5 years but trickle up many tax cuts for those on over 120,000 pa

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