Rudman on Nats’ total housing fail

Written By: - Date published: 10:24 am, December 21st, 2016 - 196 comments
Categories: bill english, housing, national, useless - Tags: , , , ,

Brian Rudman in The Herald today has a comprehensive take-down of National’s housing fail:

Government’s new housing ploy – blame the market

Obviously the thought of a grumpy Nick Smith waving hot tongs around the Christmas barbecue in darkest Dipton was too much for best buddy Bill English to contemplate. So instead of sacking him as Minister of Housing for gross incompetence, the new Prime Minister has expunged the role from his list of ministers.

Blaming market forces, he suggests the role of housing minister is Mission Impossible. “In the long run we need more houses … [but] you can’t just push a button and crank them up,” English told Radio NZ on Monday morning. Across on Radio Live he added that “Housing’s a big, complex thing. No one person has one answer, because if they did we would have solved all the problems.”

Unfortunately he hadn’t forewarned Smith of this volte-face, because while he was busy on the radio abdicating any Government role in increasing housing supply, out popped a final press release in the name Nick Smith, Minister of Building and Housing, doing just the opposite.

It proclaimed that with more than 30,000 homes consented in the year to October, residential construction had reached “an all-time high” thanks to “the Government’s programme to increase housing supply”. He added that “this Government is … getting on and addressing New Zealand’s housing challenges.”

Looks like the B-team is going to continue Key’s legacy of policy incoherence.

In other words, for the past eight years there has been a comprehensive programme, led by Smith and English, to try and increase the supply and affordability of housing. Smith’s farewell press release would have you believe it’s been a raging success. The new Prime Minister’s words suggest otherwise. As does the disastrous state of the housing market in Auckland.

Years of under-supply in Auckland have caused the average house price to hit $1 million. An Auckland City Mission census counted at least 228 homeless in the CBD alone.

While Smith plugs the latest 30,161 national annual dwelling consents as a sign of success, Auckland consents made up only 9947 of these. Even if all are built, that is well under the 13,000 new dwellings estimated to be needed annually to meet the city’s expanding population, and does nothing to address the existing 40,000 shortfall.

With annual net migration running at over 70,000, and around half of these immigrants expected to settle in Auckland, Westpac Banking senior economist Satish Ranchhod is putting it mildly when he says “building in Auckland is still failing to keep up with population growth”.

And the final take-home message?

The Prime Minister, in his role in charge of Housing New Zealand, and Smith have spectacularly failed to solve Auckland’s housing crisis over several years. Now, it seems, the “market” is to blame.

Quite.

196 comments on “Rudman on Nats’ total housing fail”

  1. To market, to market
    To buy a fat pig
    Home again, home again
    Jiggety jig.
    To market, to market
    To buy a fat hog
    Home again, home again
    Jiggety jog.

  2. Carolyn_nth 2

    The very final message, after the final paragraph quoted in the post above is:

    Now, it seems, the “market” is to blame.

    Is it any surprise they’re not standing a candidate in the upcoming Mt Albert byelection?

    Although the connection between blaming the market and not standing a candidate in the Mt Albert byelection is not very clear.

    Because the government Team B is not that competent?

    Or because the Natz are afraid of the backlash any Nat candidate might get from Mt Albertians pissed off with the housing fails in Auckland?

    • tc 2.1

      The market is to blame.

      One they wilfully created with open door immigration, no cgt, no restrictions on foreign speculation and ownership, reduced supply via state house flogging etc

      Like a teenager who crashes a car and stands back blaming everthing except their own lack of skill behind the wheel.

      National, the no responsibility party of haters and wreckers

      • Wensleydale 2.1.1

        Now, now… we can’t go blaming the market. The market is the holy grail. It is the phantasmagorical solution to all humanity’s ills. (Actually, relying on the market is more like getting into a taxi knowing your driver is a dangerous, unpredictable lunatic. But that’s neither here nor there.)

        It is amusing though, that for so long we’ve been told by the prophets of the neo-liberal order, that the market will provide, and yet when the nation’s housing supply (or lack thereof), is about to fall sideways over a cliff… it’s the market’s fault.

        National — the masters of having a bob each way.

  3. Lets hear it for the Dipper with a round of applause and clap on !!!

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Seems to be about right. Capitalism would fail badly if the government didn’t keep stepping in to save it.

      • NZJester 3.1.1

        The theory of the free market does work if all the rules are followed. The reason it always fails though is due to those with all the money not following any of the important rules that would make it work. They continually manipulate the market so that it keeps on breaking down. If the business is doing well you are meant to share that wealth with your workers to inject more money into the economy. You are also meant to pay your fair share of taxes to keep all the essential services running smoothly and your workers and their family healthy. You should also be investing in education to get more experienced workers in as older ones retire. A lot of business used to have paid apprenticeships but have scraped them. These days a person must pay an institution a lot of money to teach them those skills that previous generations got paid to learn. In some businesses, you must do unpaid internships in jobs that used to offer paid junior positions for those same jobs.
        Greed will always be the thing that stops a free market from working.

        • Gosman 3.1.1.1

          Where does it state in any theory of free market capitalism that business owners should share wealth with workers?

          • WILD KATIPO 3.1.1.1.1

            Well , Gosman , I guess from the sort of anti worker sentiment that you continually express you would have been quite comfortable if John Key had suggested this flag to replace New Zealands one.

            Its hard to imagine after all those years of social democracy we harbored and nurtured an ungrateful ,nasty, spiteful , small group of self centered little creeps like you. And Key.

            The new face of slavery :

            Work slaves.

          • orgyniser 3.1.1.1.2

            The theory is that, as a company expands its production to take advantage of its success, scarcity causes the per-unit cost of labour to increase too.

  4. Muttonbird 4

    Voters in Auckland know what’s not being done because we see it every day on the roads and in the fight for accomodation.

    They also know that National have abandoned Auckland and become Wellington centric. That Paula Bennett is an arrogant ladder-kicker and will offer only short-sighted, ineffectual, headline solutions.

    • Carolyn_nth 4.1

      Joe Carolan (who was a Mana candidate in Mt Albert in the 2014 election), says they will stand a Socialist candidate in the Mt Albert byelection.

      In a post yesterday on the Daily Blog, Carolan says:

      One of the reasons why we would stand a Socialist candidate in the Mt Albert by election is to reintroduce the S word to debate in New Zealand.

      We are committed to making the minimum wage a Living Wage of $20 an hour, introducing rent controls, physically stopping the evictions of tenants from state housing such as Niki in GI on Jan 18th, standing against racism, welcoming Migrant Workers and students and fighting their exploitation, ending the Housing crisis by building thousands of new state homes, supporting local eco neighborhood projects, funding Playcentres, taxing the rich and the 1%, and building a movement not to reform the system but to fundamentally change it, as nothing less will result in irreversible climate change that will destroy human life on this planet.”

    • fisiani 4.2

      Every seat in Auckland will give a PV majority to National yet again. Aucklanders are happy with their life. They have valuable assets and lost cost mortgages if any. The 642 homeless people in NZ should be housed by this time next year. No one ss listening to Labour.

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1

        No.

        Home ownership is at its lowest point in many decades so an increasing number of Aucklanders do not own valuable assets. They are stuck in worsening traffic travelling to jobs which pay less and less each year in real terms.

        In Auckland, which can be defined by the Mt Albert and Mt Roskill belt, people are starting to listen to Labour. The party vote is up for grabs because National’s brighter future is just not working for an ever increasing proportion of the people here.

        And that is without considering the inevitable rise in interest rates which will start to bite next winter.

      • Wensleydale 4.2.2

        “Aucklanders are happy with their lives.”

        Yes. Even the ones sleeping in cars because they can’t afford the exorbitant cost of a private rental on the pitiful wages they’re paid. You really do live in some bizarre parallel dimension, don’t you Fizzy?

        • Muttonbird 4.2.2.1

          Lives in the Hutt Valley so has no concept whatsoever about what Auckland’s lives are like in reality, much like the rest of the National Party.

          The Mt Roskill and the Mt Albert by-elections are a clear indicator of the mood in Auckland.

        • Gosman 4.2.2.2

          They were never likely to vote National though.

          • WILD KATIPO 4.2.2.2.1

            Soooo,… because they were not likely to vote National you would agree with this same sort of sentiment regarding Auckland and in particular Mt Albert issues?
            ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

            ” South Islanders are useless and East Christchurch earthquake victims scum, controversial blogger Cameron Slater allegedly says in emails disclosed by Dirty Politics author Nicky Hager.

            Writing to his friend Peter Smith (not his real name) after the February earthquake, Slater says: “The place is f****d, they should should just board it up and close it down.”

            Smith: A real tragedy, but it will f***k Labour for the election.

            Slater: Yep blessings.

            Slater: What i can’t believe… is how we have to bail out those useless pricks in the sth island, again.’

            Smith: I said to someone today National should let them rot, after all they are useless scum Labour voters especially in the areas where the earthquake hit..well hopefully more scum will labour voters will piss off to Australia (and) at least the uninsured get (f***ing) nothing.’

            Slater: Those suburbs are hard core Labour…the owners will be Nat voters though and the voters tenants, so the houses are gone and the scum are gone too, and they should get nothing. ”
            ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

            Is this the sort of contempt that secretly still underlies elements in the National party and the democratic principle in particular? Or is it just gutlessness?

            • Wensleydale 4.2.2.2.1.1

              As repellent as that sort of conversation actually is, it’s hardly surprising coming from Slater and company. Unless you’re part of their special little club, you’re an irrelevant waste of oxygen and they’d be quite happy if you dropped off the face of the earth. What’s disturbing, is not that they consider their political opponents beneath their notice, it’s the palpable hostility and contempt. It’s almost as though they actively hate you for your political worldview, and would encourage your demise.

              I might disagree vehemently with many supporters of National and Act, but I don’t wish them dead or reduced to a state of miserable penury.

              • Exactly , and I am the same.

                However , the concerted effort by Bill English when Keys Finance Minister and now as PM seems to demonstrate the continued neo liberal tendency nay , – adherence – , to that ideology to have contempt for the poor / working poor.

                It has been 8 long years of Nationals ‘ War on the poor ‘ – which has constituted by and large the bulk of the comments on these blogs. And the ensueing denials by their apologists on blogsites such as these.

                If anyone thinks their policy’s are NOT deadly , – simply cast your minds back to a year or so ago when a small girl died as well as a security officer in one of Keys decrepit, dilapidated , moldy , and frigid state houses.

                POVERTY .

                The direct results of POVERTY.

                POVERTY induced by this govt’s policy’s.

                And that slimy bastard Key had the audacity to bullshit on about being on the cusp of a brighter future.

                What an arsehole.

                These neo liberal apologist trolls deserve to be given no quarter whatsoever on this or any other forum. Of that you can be sure.

              • Sam C

                And I think the vast majority of Nationsl supporters wouldn’t wish ill on Labour supporters.

                Slater is a toxic dickhead, of that there is no doubt. But then again, so is Bradbury.

      • Johan 4.2.3

        fisiani the liar.

      • Greg 4.2.4

        Fizz is still thinks he’s on planet key but the illusion is wearing off fast but the truth behind planet key is so ugly the key fan boys are in total denial mode they Ve been abandoned by great leader and now the truth is comeing out and they fuckin hate it. And for bloodyEnglish to blame the market is a cop out this government has had 8 years to magic up the houses more than enough time . Its delivery time on the brighter future .
        No wonder great leader headed to the hills

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    “In the long run we need more houses … [but] you can’t just push a button and crank them up,”

    Yeah, actually you can – just so long as you’ve invested in the button.

    Which, of course, is the real problem. Over the last few decades the government has refused to do the necessary investing leaving it instead to ‘the market’ which, inevitably, failed.

    Years of under-supply in Auckland have caused the average house price to hit $1 million.

    And don’t forget the speculation helped by untaxed capital gains by rich people both foreign and domestic.

  6. But when there is no way the housing market can keep up, it is time to look at where the demand is coming from and whether or not the source should have input into the housing market.

    In this case the demand is coming from large numbers of immigrants who are not residents or citizens, and some might have only bought a house to tie up money that they did not want taxed. That kind of buying we can do without, which is why New Zealand First has rock solid policy on who can/cannot buy houses here.

    • While I quite like Winnie and the ‘First’ ,… I have been interested in what Gareth Morgan has been saying on his web site. You can see the measures hes talking about putting in place would work – and wean us off of non productive speculation and housing and on towards productive industry.

      Well worth a look .

  7. mac1 7

    I’d like to comment on the words in red attributed to Little “When you don’t have enough houses, you bloody well build some more”. These are of course what the Right use to label Andrew Little as angry.

    I want to commend Andrew Little for being angry. Anger is a justifiable and legitimate response to injustice. Certainly, poor housing and poverty contain many examples of injustice in our wealthy society.

    At this time of Christmas, let me just give as an example of righteous anger the Prince of Peace himself who drove the moneylenders out of the Temple.

    It was not physical force or threat of force that prevailed in this example, force of one man against many, hard and well-protected money-merchants.

    It was the power of righteous anger against exploitation, entrenched and systemic.

    • ” I want to commend Andrew Little for being angry. Anger is a justifiable and legitimate response to injustice. Certainly, poor housing and poverty contain many examples of injustice in our wealthy society.”

      + 100 % mac1,

      Also liked the historical reference as well. This garbage about being meek and mild in the face of hypocrisy and skulduggery is for the birds.

      That sort of thing needs to be challenged and not given a free reign.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

        Also liked the historical reference as well. This garbage about being meek and mild in the face of hypocrisy and skulduggery is for the birds.

        That sort of thing needs to be challenged and not given a free reign.

        QFT

        • In Vino 7.1.1.1

          Assuming it is historical – maybe it should be called biblical. At all events, to my mind it was by far the best thing Jesus ever did. If I thought he might do the same again (at a broad, social level) I would hope for the supposed ‘second coming’.

          • mac1 7.1.1.1.1

            I guess we are the Princes of Peace of our generation. We don’t need a ‘second coming.’ We are here. We are the agents of change now. It is ours to confront the money changers.

            On the other side are the temple authorities, the overseas (Roman) elite who don’t give a stuff, the Pharisees, money changers and tax gatherers. The rich continue their vain attempts to gain access through eyes of needles and proclaim their justness for all to hear.

            Yes, the stories are from the Bible, but well based in human history and experience, including ours.

    • BM 7.3

      When you don’t have enough houses, you bloody well build some more

      When Andrew said that I’d have been surprised if anyone who’s involved the building sector didn’t roll their eyes and mutter to themselves “What an idiot, does he have any idea?”

      • WILD KATIPO 7.3.1

        Yeah you would have been surprised. And ignorant of political history.

        Yawn.

        • BM 7.3.1.1

          You didn’t mention Pike river, don’t lose focus old fella.

          • WILD KATIPO 7.3.1.1.1

            Haven’t lost focus at all , e mailed the guy Cullen who is a partner in an employment law firm and told him the next time he writes an article for public consumption and attempting to influence the public’s political thinking at least try and present both sides of the argument rather than trotting out Solid Energy’s and Blinglish’s erroneous position.

            It must smart like salt in the proverbial wound to be upstaged by the worlds eminent mines experts to be essentially told your talking shit.

            • Sam C 7.3.1.1.1.1

              Yeah, a seven page report by ‘world experts’. I’d really be hanging my hat on that.

              • Either it indicates the simplicity of the operation and thus the obstinance by this govt and Solid Energy , – or – like most reports – it is a broad outline with the finer details to be fleshed out once operations are under way.

                It is whats called a preliminary report.

                The ridiculousness of the reports detractors lie in this fact and this fact alone : Not only are we talking about THE worlds eminent mines experts here, – they have stated – that these are but STANDARD procedures in any recovery operation. Of which they have also stated operations and procedures such as these are repetitively commonplace in mines reentry.

                This govt therefore has NO excuse.

                • Sam C

                  Have you actually read the report?

                  Lightweight in the extreme.

                  • Of course I have read the report.

                    Lightweight?

                    Again. Underlines what I said in the above comment. It is a PRELIMINARY REPORT.
                    When a civic work such as constructing a hydro dam or a tunnel for roading is contemplated… do you REALLY believe the initial report contains ALL the data ?

                    Come on. Stop playing the naive game to score points.

                    Or are you trying to say your opinion holds more weight than the worlds foremost mines rescue and recovery teams – like Solid Energy and this govt is ?

                    The real issue here is with your blind sycophancy for this govt – which lines up with your admittance that you are a property speculator. You have much riding on there NOT being a change of govt.That is your true motive.

                    One which would deny forensic evidence , legal determining of culpability for that disaster , and justice for this country .

                    And all because of your small – time vested financial interests.

                    The real height of your self centeredness and arrogance in your comment above is therefore displayed for all to see.

          • reason 7.3.1.1.2

            …. you always forget your white disco pants and glass of nationals river water BM

            Where your honest bum-hole will show up your dishonest brain….

            Where the ‘right direction’ for you after drinking nationals river water is towards the toilet….

            Your so symbolic 😉

      • fisiani 7.3.2

        Quite right BM. How many builders are unemployed at present? None. They are all building houses.

        • mac1 7.3.2.1

          Why are there insufficient builders, fisiani?

          • BM 7.3.2.1.1

            Builders/carpenters are only one part of the equation.

            • mac1 7.3.2.1.1.1

              Didn’t answer my question.

              I’ll give you a fact. Apprentice numbers have dropped from 9800 to 5000 since 2008- that from an article in April 2016.

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79119549/More-apprentices-needed-fast-as-shortage-hits-NZ-construction-industry

              • BM

                From the article.
                Teachers and parents are still focused on university as a first choice – they don’t see apprenticeships as a first choice for a career .

                Government can’t force people to become apprentices, the only option we have is bringing in overseas builders.

                • ‘ Whats that ya say about the Employment Contracts Act , Fred ? ‘

                  ‘ Oh yeah … creates downwards pressure on wages… ‘

                  ‘ Yep !… just cant get em to work. Never mind then , we can always import a few more thousand Filipinos, treat em like shit and criticize NZ workers as lazy , un-employable and drug addled ‘ …

                  ‘ Gotta love that Blinglish low wage economy as it encourages foreign investors ‘…

                  ‘ Whats that about the housing bubble , Fred ? ‘

                • mac1

                  Now, answer my question. Why are there not enough builders?

                  Because…….?

                  • BM

                    Multiple reasons.

                    Builders retiring
                    Kids aren’t interested in being apprentices
                    Builders aren’t interested in training
                    Government no longer has no ability to train people.

                    • ‘ Kids aren’t interested in being apprentices ‘

                      Maybe some kids – pay em well enough and give em secure work and youll find plenty of kids that are – evidenced by there still being builders now,… they didnt just fall from the sky , mate.

                      ‘ Builders aren’t interested in training ‘

                      They would be if there were govt incentives to do so – but with this neo liberal hands off bullshit govt , it’ll simply stay the same. Save for a few more ‘ imports’ to make up the discrepancies.

                      ‘ Government no longer has no ability to train people.’

                      Who’s faults that ?…. there once was a time when we had union award rates , indentured workers and job security so we wouldn’t have to rely on cheap Filipino labour to do the jobs Kiwis don’t want to do. And why do they not want to do those jobs? Because the wages are shit. And because this neo liberal govt doesn’t believe in training incentives.

                      They’d rather have a few thousand more living in cars.

                    • mac1

                      Good answers, katipo.

                      Now, BM and fisiani (who I note in his ‘spray and leave’ way has not returned to the debate), given that we’ve known about lower apprenticeship numbers for some years, and that we’ve had a housing shortage for some years, and still the need is not being met, is this market failure or failure of government?

                      Because failure it is- on a scale that is anger-making, entrenched and systemic.

                    • BM

                      1. From what I’ve seen money isn’t the issue its motivation and boredom, everything has to be fun and exciting (thanks, teachers) for young people otherwise, they won’t do it.
                      Apprenticeships don’t really tick those boxes.

                      2. Builders aren’t interested in training because apprentices cost a fuckload of money and time.
                      The problem with apprentices is that not only can you not charge them out at a good rate, you have to have a qualified builder overseeing them which means your qualified builder can’t charge out for all of his time.
                      Lots of cost for what can be no reward.

                      3. Unless the government buys back the railways/recreates the MOW/Post office etc there’s no environment to train apprentices, The only avenue that’s left is probably setting up a building unit within HousingNZ which can then be used as a vehicle to train people.

                    • Johan

                      BM you are so full of sh*t, take a look around what is being built in the South Auckland and surrounding areas. Rampant and uncontrolled immigration has fueled the Auckland housing problem.
                      Money from overseas have made home purchases for most Kiwis unobtainable.

                    • Anno1701

                      “everything has to be fun and exciting (thanks, teachers) for young people otherwise, they won’t do it.”

                      your pathetic….

                    • Sam C []

                      ‘Your pathetic’.

                      Says it all really.

                    • Lara

                      Oh FFS

                      Do you seriously expect 16 and 17 year old kids to have a reasonable understanding of the economy and what jobs are in demand?

                      And do you really think that schools are supplying that information?

                      Because you know what? They f***ing aren’t.

                      We used to have an apprenticeship scheme. It was ditched because too expensive and because it was funnelling brown kids into it, while white kids were funnelled into university.

                      If we’d kept it up those brown kids would’ve now had training in trades.

                      But we left it to the market which was supposed to provide. It didn’t. Now we’re short of tradespeople and looking to import them.

                    • BM

                      We used to have an apprenticeship scheme. It was ditched because too expensive and because it was funnelling brown kids into it, while white kids were funnelled into university.

                      It wasn’t ditched, it died because the Labour government sold off all the apprentice nurseries back in the 1980’s.

                      The brown kid’s comment isn’t true. the trades have never appealed to Maori/Island young people.

                    • orgyniser

                      There’s shedloads of builders – they’re just distributed like heards of cats. The problem is the industry is too disorganised to do anything in any substantial measure. I read somewhere there is something like 5 firms or coops that are capable of building more than 20 houses a year. The rest of them are just thousands of ‘couple of guys and a ute’ outfits. That’s why you have the building materials producers charging an arm and a leg – because they can trade the builders off against each other.

                      What might be a good idea is a new approach where you have a single agency that supplies the finance, procures the building materials, coordinates operational matters, and generally ensures the resources at the disposal of the residential housing construction industry are being used as efficiently as possible.

                      I dunno, maybe call it KiwiBuild, or something?

                    • BM

                      Why would these builders want to work for KiwiBuid?.

                      Is KiwiBuild going to pay double the going rate?

                    • orgyniser

                      They’d join because it would provide a more steady pipeline of work, a guarantee you’ll get paid, and lower costs due to group buying – just to start with.

                    • Sam C []

                      A more steady pipeline of work? That’s the problem – every builder worth his/her salt is flat out like a lizard drinking.

                      The ‘pipeline’ is never ending.

                    • BM

                      Exactly, If you’re a decent builder, you’ve got work coming out the wazoo, KiwiBuild’s going to have to offer something far above what these guys ae currently getting to even make them interested.

                    • KJT

                      Out of my whole tech class I managed to get three into apprenticeships.
                      Over half the class wanted an apprenticeship.

                      Apprenticeships are just not happening, since Governments fucked with them.

                • It can’t force people, no. But it can encourage them, and it can take emergency measures to seriously encourage them when faced with something like the Christchurch earthquake – that’s kind of implied in the term “governance,” which doesn’t mean “shrug your shoulders and say nothing to do with us mate.”

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Really?

                  I thought that the only option was to leave it to the market. That if there wasn’t enough of a particular worker then wages for them would go up and more people would want to become that type of worker because money.

                  • That’s how it works in the text books. Outside of the text books, if there isn’t enough of a particular worker then you bring in more from a country where those workers don’t earn much. BM calls that “the only option,” without mentioning that it’s actually the preferred option, and wouldn’t be the only option if we had a government that was willing to govern for the country instead of its donors.

                • wellfedweta

                  In a command economy they can. Which is probably the economy of choice by many posting here. You know, like the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela….those doyens of economic success.

                  • What about the other ‘ doyens ‘ of success such as Norway , Sweden and Denmark?

                    Again , Weta… your propagating the old far right wing neo liberal political ploy of deliberately labeling a social democracy with extremes ,… ie : communistic states.

                    Don’t you ever get tired of spinning shit and fostering fallacy’s ?

                    Knock off the fake concern bud.

                    Your fooling nobody here.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “What about the other ‘ doyens ‘ of success such as Norway , Sweden and Denmark?”

                      Are you seriously suggesting these are ‘command’ economies? Are people forced into apprenticeships in those countries?

                    • Red

                      I see the Legut Institutes now rates NZ above the Nordic economies

                    • Sam C

                      ‘Fallacy’s’, ‘your’….

                      You really do have the brain of a spider.

                  • No Im not and no again.

                    Im talking about INCENTIVES.

                    BTW ,…. I thought you would agree with that sentiment ie : incentives eg : money.

                    I thought that’s the only thing people like you understand,… money…therefore… for some inexplicable reason,… you seem to only think its important for you,… the rest can go take a running jump according to you it seems…

                    Ask yourself… would YOU work for the pathetic wages on offer at present ?

                    Have a little think about it.

                    • BM

                      Apprentices cost a business quite a bit of money with no guaranteed return.

                    • mac1

                      So how come, BM, all those apprentices for all those centuries? I do appreciate your answering, btw., Fisiani having just fizzed out.

                      What’s different nowadays?

                      Anything to do with free-loading, greed, lack of community spirit and awareness, duck-shoving, buck-passing, failure to recognise that was how the builder most probably got his skills?

                      Anything to do with a market that squeezes all? With entrepreneurs, developers, fast money men?

                      With banks and finance?

                      With government support and encouragement?

                      Hmmmmm……………… I wonder?

                    • Red

                      Yes if the job was a means to an ends, you need to start some where

                    • wellfedweta

                      What incentives? If you’re talking about corporate welfare, no thanks.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “So how come, BM, all those apprentices for all those centuries?

                      What’s different nowadays?”

                      Well if your referring to ‘centuries’, a lot is different. We don’t send children of 15 to work and bind them for up to 10 years, as they did in the early years of ‘apprenticeships’.

                      Times change, and most training today is not done through ‘apprenticeships’. You need to move on to more modern thinking.

                    • North

                      Market proponents while religiously lauding ‘The Market’ take volte-face against ‘The Market’ to prove they were always right to religiously laud ‘The Market’ ??? Risible !

                  • In a command economy they can.

                    I’m not sure whether this one is “false dichotomy” or “reductio ad absurdum.” Can you have both in one statement?

                  • Pat

                    your eyes brown?

            • Macro 7.3.2.1.1.2

              That’s because you and fisi, are stuck in the past and cannot see past your old practises..
              It is entirely possible to ramp up the production of housing – but not the same sort of housing that is bespoke built, requiring craftsmen builders plumbers and electricians. That sort of housing belongs in the past. Production housing, built offsite, and assembled onsite, is both here and now. Like the typists of the past, the builders, plumbers, and electricians have had their day and will be less and less employed.

              • BM

                See that’s the problem with Labour, they make all these grandiose statements without actually demonstrating how they’re going to achieve what they say.

                Now if they’d mention kit-set/Production houses and how they’ve been talking with the various players in the market to work out a plan of attack that can be implemented right from the get go, them they’d get a lot more kudos than the scorn and ridicule they’re currently getting.

                Because let’s be honest if Labour gets in there will be at least 3 years of planning/fucking around before kiwibuild is even in any position to start building houses.

                • Macro

                  And why should Labour give the Nats a heads up at this stage of the Election cycle???

                • After 8 years of National being in we’ve had 8 years of fucking round , 41000 homeless and family’s having to opt for living in the family car .

                  L0L !!!!

                  And you say that ISN’T BAD ?!!?

                  • wellfedweta

                    After 8 years we have record low interest rates, low debt to gdp, low unemployment, low inflation, and record employment. Oh and 4,100 homeless, not 41,000.

                    • Siobhan

                      Homelessness is the thing that grabs headlines, but the real issue is overcrowded housing. Do we really know how many families are sharing houses or living in accommodation that is too small. I suspect that much of this goes under the radar.
                      Anecdotally I can say I have a young family member living in an Auckland apartment, sharing one room with her boyfriend and his mother, with a variable number of people in the other rooms, including the living room.
                      They all appear to consider this entirely normal.

                      Same with unemployment. Sure it is low. But what is the status of these jobs.

                      “Of those of us who earn wages and salaries, half have been employed in our present job for less than 18 months.

                      The most-common amount of time we spend in our job is one to three months. This may reflect the number of people on shorter-term contracts and temping. However, there are many employees who have frequent job changes, with over 250,000 wage and salary earners starting a new role every three months.”

                      http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/yearbook/people/employment/job-change.aspx

                      How do you build a steady life, or steady communities in this sort of environment??.

                    • Sam C []

                      Good point Siobhan and I think quantifying the problem is very difficult.

                      I am aware of work MSD is doing at the moment around emergency housing.

                      The measurements are interesting and someone registering for emergency housing (which you need to do to become eligible for it) may not be living rough or in their car, but they may be living on a family member’s sofa.

                      The situation is so fluid that it is hard to accurately gauge the requirements for emergency housing in any one region at any one time, but there is no doubt that living on someone’s sofa, in a car or under a bridge is detrimental for all of NZ society.

                    • adam

                      For wellfedweta…

                      Do you lie straight in bed too?

                      What method do you use?

                    • wellfedweta

                      Hi Siobhan

                      “…but the real issue is overcrowded housing.”

                      I’m going to go out on a limb here and post something contentious. Trust me when I say I what I write is from experience, not malice. ‘Overcrowding’ is in the eye of the beholder. It is not new (despite what some would claim) and is often by choice. ‘Overcrowding’ is common among pacific and broader ethnic communities because that is how they live culturally. In Fiji, for example, large extended families live together in groups of 8-10. The same applies in Samoa and Tonga. The difference in NZ is that we don’t accept that as ‘normal’, and so we provide resources to house people in ways we consider to be more appropriate.

                      “Same with unemployment. Sure it is low. But what is the status of these jobs.”

                      The growth in employment has been across the board…permanent/casual, full time/part time. But the nature of work is changing, with more casual employment (my son is currently employed on a casual contract). That is the way of the future.

                      “How do you build a steady life, or steady communities in this sort of environment??.”

                      And there is a great question, but perhaps I see the solution in different terms. As societies we have turned our backs on traditional values that bound society together. Traditional families have been replaced with hybrids, men have shirked their responsibilities, while society has systematically undermined the normalcy and value of two parent households. The new society is not, in my opinion, conducive to effectively meeting our expectations in the way society did in the past. Now, all that said, I am determined to do the best I can with what I have. It starts with our young people. Get them into team sports (I coach a football team, and sponsor kids who cannot afford the fees). Get young people into youth groups (yes churches have something to offer) or community work. Teach our young ones a sense of civic duty that perhaps we haven’t been teaching them. Teach them to budget, to garden (another contributor gave me that idea)…and on it goes.

                    • Macro

                      LOL let’s make up figures shall we!
                      There are are no homeless, no body is unemployed, everyone has a million dollars in the bank, and the bank actually pays us to borrow from them.
                      Don’t ask me for a citation – because you haven’t given any for yours either, and by and large yours are all” Post truth” – or more correctly lies anyway.
                      WTF has low debt to gdp, or gdp for that matter , or interest rates, got to do with whether or not an economy is delivering to the people. Have you ever asked yourself just what an economy is for? You obviously haven’t – for if you had – you would know that western economies, by and large, are at the present time piss poor at actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Furthermore, NZ’s is one of the poorest when measured by the standard of doing what it is supposed to be doing.
                      by the way in June this year Otago University published a study calcuating that 1 in 100 NZers were homeless
                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80719962/one-in-100-kiwis-homeless-new-study-shows-numbers-quickly-rising
                      that’s 41,000 for your information.

                    • In Vino

                      wellfedweta – you are so bourgeois. You are promoting a social system that will create a hellhole of a society.

                    • wellfedweta

                      ” let’s make up figures shall we!”

                      I’m sure you can back that up with evidence?

                      Nah, thought not.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “You are promoting a social system that will create a hellhole of a society.”

                      You mean one where children have two loving parents. Where men respect and honour their women as equals, and take responsibility for their part in family life. Where society values two parent households OVER any other option. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930824/). Some hellhole.

                    • In Vino

                      That may be your bourgeois aim, but your policies produce the opposite. Are you relatively young by any chance? I am tempted to say that your optimism is refreshing… but your naivety is disappointing.

                    • Macro

                      It’s not me who is making up figures you idiot! It’s you! And then you resort to using other irrelevant figures (with no citationwhatsoever) that may or may not be true, to substantiate your outlandish claim that the economy of NZ is wonderful.
                      So if it is so f**king good, why is it then that there are more homeless than ever before? Why is it that the number applying for food parcels from our foodbanks around the country has doubled in the past year? If you want verification for this go, down to the local food bank in your area and help out for a while. It’s obvious from your comments here that you have no true understanding of the poverty and hardship that many in your country are facing. Why is that the numbers seeking emergence shelter every night of the week is now so great that many are turned away? Why is it that teachers with a starting salary around $50,000pa don’t want to live in Auckland, because they can’t afford accommodation? Why is it that the Corrections Department have to spend $2m on hotel accomodation for their staff at Mt Eden for the same reason – the prison offices don’t want to move to Auckland because it is too expensive.
                      Why is it that with an annual demand for 13,000+ homes extra homes in Auckland alone, only around 9,000 additional consents were sort?
                      Why is it that our rivers are now unsafe to wade and swim in?
                      Why is it that our fish stocks- despite our so called “Fish quota management system”,that some have been so depleted that if steps are not taken soon our oceans will become barren?
                      But you are obviously incapable of any thought process other than to repeat the mantras learned parrot fashion around the Nats feasting table so I don’t expect a sensible reply.

                    • @weta

                      Get a grip on your facts , arsehole and stop spreading your bullshit lies.

                      Read the link and weep .

                      Homelessness – the invisible housing problem – NZ Council of …
                      nzccss.org.nz/work/poverty/the-real…/homelessness-the-invisible-housing-problem/

                      http://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago613529.html

                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/…/One-in-100-Kiwis-homeless-new-study-shows-numbers-quickly-risi...

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Are you relatively young by any chance?”

                      Mid 50’s. And very world wise. Perhaps that’s the difference between us. I live in the real world.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “And then you resort to using other irrelevant figures (with no citationwhatsoever) that may or may not be true, to substantiate your outlandish claim that the economy of NZ is wonderful.”

                      Based on the vitriol, I’ve touched a nerve. The economic success if NZ is well documented. You’re in utter denial.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “Get a grip on your facts , arsehole and stop spreading your bullshit lies.”

                      Are you posting to the wrong contributor on the wrong thread? Because your comment has nothing to do with what I wrote.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The economic success if NZ is well documented. You’re in utter denial.

                      On Earth, the IMF, World Bank, UNICEF, Salvation Army, and everyone else you can’t defund, disagree with you.

                      All you can do about that is wail your denial on a blog.

                    • ‘ we have record low interest rates, ‘

                      * And it wont be long before that changes – as an article by Liam Dann has pointed out. These banks that have encouraged all this borrowing will be recalling that debt when there is a significant global upset- as is predicted to be on the way very shortly.

                      ‘ low debt to gdp ‘

                      * Typically with you far right wing neo liberal trolls you always conveniently forget to mention that govt debt is low- while private debt is estimated to be around HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS !!!!

                      So who stands to gain after reclaiming that debt when interest rates go up and mortgages foreclose , huh?

                      Its an old ploy Weta – one that Rothchild himself used over and over again to gain control of the major world banking system.

                      ‘ low unemployment ‘

                      * Again – typical among far right wing neo liberal trolls – always omitting the fact that welfare will see you sleep in cars or go into massive debt in motels – the alternative is cheap work slave type jobs with their correspondingly low wages – ideal conditions for the neo liberal exploiter.

                      ‘ low inflation ‘

                      * One of the aspects of operating a run down economy is keeping inflation low . This imply’s also that wages are low. Which they are. Shockingly low for a supposed advanced nation. It is in fact , an international disgrace and sign of either avarice or incompetence.

                      * In fact , the OECD says we are among the lowest waged country’s in that organization and have written warnings in their reports about it.

                      ‘ record employment ‘

                      * And here we have the usual sycophantic glowing reports of all the ‘ happy workers’ at play. But notice how its never mentioned how obscenely low and out of step with even current ‘ low’ inflationary rates wages are- wages that are around 15-20 years behind those figures. The fact that we have family’s needing to sleep in cars and garages EVEN WHEN holding jobs says it all.

                      * The fact that small children die in shitty , frigid, moldy , damp state houses that is determined by a coroners report that it was a direct consequence of those conditions that was the cause of death…

                      * Govt debt is so ‘ low ‘ because of the withholding of desperately needed funding for our social services ,- and that we , the public ,- suffer the consequences of that neo liberal govt hands off approach . This is damning physical evidence in itself.

                      *Health , Policing, Education , Welfare, have all suffered – as has the population – as a direct result of this govts neo liberalism. From overworked junior doctors to women’s refuges , all have suffered cutbacks – designed primarily to justify and pave the way for privatized corporate’s to be able to move in and start their price gouging and blood extractions from the NZ public.

                      * The only ones to have made from the deal are the uber rich through tax cuts – tax cuts that SHOULD – have gone into funding for this country’s social services but were instead stolen from the public purse to curry favour with rich National party corporate donors and lobbyists who stand to gain massively in the short term by turning this country into some sort cash cow as has been done by the same corporate criminals overseas.

                      The end results being ?

                      Work and Tenant Slaves in our own country.

                      You talk mindless, vicious bullshit Weta – time to go crawl back into your fetid , dark hole from whence you came .

                    • In Vino

                      You are grotesquely over-confident weta, and mid-50s may be your physical age, but I (70 years old) see you as having much to learn. You see only what suits you.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “On Earth, the IMF, World Bank, UNICEF, Salvation Army, and everyone else you can’t defund, disagree with you.”

                      Ah, no they don’t.

                      “New Zealand’s flexible economy, underpinned by strong policy frameworks, is well-positioned to weather the recent slowdown of the economy and manage financial stability risks.”
                      https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/52/mcs111015

                      “World Bank chief economist Paul Romer said simple rules for doing business were a sign that a government treated its people with respect.

                      “They yield direct economic benefits: more entrepreneurship, more market opportunities for women, more adherence to the rule of law.””
                      http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/85732321/World-Bank-names-NZ-best-country-for-business

                      I’ll hand it to you, you have to be the master at writing utter bs.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “And it wont be long before that changes”
                      So you agree with me. Good.
                      “Typically with you far right wing neo liberal trolls you always conveniently forget to mention that govt debt is low- while private debt is estimated to be around HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS !!!!”
                      So? Private debt is private debt, not public debt. So again, you agree with me.
                      “Again – typical among far right wing neo liberal trolls – always omitting the fact that welfare will see you sleep in cars or go into massive debt in motels”
                      The last two people the Herald featured have been outed as recidivist offenders against landlords. Come up with a better story.
                      “One of the aspects of operating a run down economy is keeping inflation low”
                      No, it is a sign of an economy in which internal costs are well controlled, particularly government spending.
                      “In fact , the OECD says we are among the lowest waged country’s in that organization and have written warnings in their reports about it.”
                      Cite?

                      I’m not going to waste my time any further. You’re either ignorant of what is really happening, or you are wilfully misrepresenting how strong our economy is for ideological reasons.

                    • wellfedweta

                      “You are grotesquely over-confident weta, ”

                      Oh believe me that would end if Labour got anywhere near the levers of power. But right now, the country is on a very solid footing.

                      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/solid-growth-nz-despite-fragile-world-economy

                      3.5% growth! Compare that to the OECD average.

                    • Wellfedweta

                      “Bernard Hickey corrects your pro National lies”

                      What does he say that refutes the growth rate? Nothing. His article is about productivity, not growth. He even acknowledges the growth in employment and in other areas of the economy. Did you even read the article?

                • Red

                  Clonesville and in 10 years a slum Easten Europe where good at building ugly boxes to, so to the Uk witth disgusting tenanment blocks, housing for housing sake but just creating bigger issues down the road

                  • North

                    Red, above – “housing for housing sake……”

                    My God……that takes the Yuletide cake !

                    • Reds worried that his property values will be affected. The classic nimby. And that’s the only real problem Red sees further on down the road.

                      Red would prefer if they all went docile – like and didn’t create a fuss as they find a park to sleep in their cars.

                      Reds also one of these – an advocate of the Work and Tenant Slave.
                      ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

                      ‘ Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. ‘

                      (A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.)

                      Here you go Red – just for you and Gosman – let the spirit of slavery which you so endorse come out of the closet. Be liberated.

                • greg

                  you nats have had 8 years to deliver why isnt the enough homes BM when you guys the superior economic managers have been in charge please answer ????

              • Sam C

                As I said the other day, I’m really looking forward to a change in Government so we can see just how easy all this new technology/3D house printing stuff is.

                The housing crisis will be fixed by July 2018. Or not…

                • Paul

                  You’re very busy trolling.
                  Any chance you could provide something constructive.
                  You know, like what the National or ACT Party should focus on in 2017
                  Or go away?

                  • Sam C

                    I’ll go away when Labour has fixed the housing crisis, with their 3D printing shit. It is, after all, so easy.

                    • You far right wing neo liberal trolls have no answer.

                      Lets go back in time a bit when Labour actually DID fix the problem, Sam C , … back to a time when a man called Michael Joseph Savage was Prime Minister… and perhaps while we are at it … a few initiatives from Gareth Morgan to bump these speculators off their perch… I can hear the screams of anguish from here….

                • Better start flicking off some of those speculative houses you have in your trusts portfolio then , Sam C….

                  And lay off the coffees … we emphasize that you’ve already got a bad case of the jitters now Keys gone…

        • WILD KATIPO 7.3.2.2

          Imported Irish ones.

          • Red 7.3.2.2.1

            Just chill houses are been built just drive around Auckland , you will see a surge just in time for election, the market will provide but does not always guarantee constant equilibrium, nor does the state have this power but history tell us ( not Draco special all history ) overall the market does a way better job of allocating resources

            • Muttonbird 7.3.2.2.1.1

              Not enough and too late. This issue needs intervention and increasing numbers of people are realising it.

              Nick Smith and co (and now you) keep saying, ‘wait, it’ll all come right.’ But it’s not coming right, it’s getting worse.

        • reason 7.3.2.3

          Dishonest fisi….

          A lot of builders time and building capacity is fixing up leaky buildings ….

          Which were another result of stupid national party policy ….

          Like Pike River mine and the failure of government regulators there ….

          Like charter schools are proving to be ,,,

          etc etc

      • Draco T Bastard 7.3.3

        Quite a few of my family happen to be in the building sector and most of them were happy with the idea of building more houses.

      • Brendon Harre 7.3.4

        Here is Andrew Little’s Speech to the Property Council’s Residential Development Summit. From my contacts in the housing sector the speech was well received BM.
        http://www.labour.org.nz/andrew_little_speech_to_the_property_council_s_residential_development_summit

        Labour has put a lot of effort in developing its housing policy. This is just one example of Labour showing it is ready to govern.

        Labour wants to make progressive changes to improve the lives of kiwis.

        Meanwhile National chooses not to govern. Their leadership style is to do nothing and when it all turns to custard to blame others…..

        • tc 7.3.4.1

          National have not done nothing. They have deliberately set about boosting house price by increasing demand and not compensating the supply side knowing akl would go off the charts.

          People need to wake up to the reality that shonky/blinglish knew exactly what would happen and pimped middle nz with the help of msm shills and dirty politics into thinking this was down to a strong economy which is BS.

          Worms turned so shonky shoots through having had the time of his life with both the supply and demand under his control….a dealers wet dream.

      • KJT 7.3.5

        As someone who was part of the building sector, I am rolling my eyes. At BM.

  8. BM 8

    Yes, strangely Andrew Little doesn’t seem to consider that an issue, because just like that, extra 10000 homes a year!!!!.

    • And under Blinglishs sterling financial management , just like that , an extra 41000 homeless and family’s using cars as their homes.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      That’s another lie from a RWNJ.

      It was made clear that it would be a build of 100,000 over ten years – as you well know.

      • alwyn 8.2.1

        I followed this link you provided, and then the one there to have a look at more details about the fabulous “KiwiBuild” manifesto promise.
        They certainly must have gone back a long, long time ago to come up with the scheme.
        Have a look here.
        http://www.labour.org.nz/kiwibuild
        Are they really so out of touch that they don’t even realise that New Zealand went over to metric on 14 December 1976. Just over 40 years ago. How old are these house designs they are proposing? All the dimensions are in feet and inches.
        I wonder if these wonderful new houses will have inside plumbing?

  9. fisiani 9

    Angry Andy just makes up numbers but National are actually building record number of houses and the peak building time is over the next three months. It’s called Summer!

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1

      No, really, they’re not. They’re not building anything but they are selling off heaps of state assets to their donors and thus making NZ worse off.

      • Red 9.1.1

        Draco get out of your basement and Take a road trip around Auckland, it will do you wonders on a number of fronts

        • In Vino 9.1.1.1

          You will come home aged, with grey hair because of gridlock traffic.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.2

          As I say – I’ve plenty of family in the construction industry. I’m not but I do hear from them and I read what passes for news in this country so I do have an idea as to what’s happening and it’s not what National says. In fact, almost everything that National says is an outright lie.

      • fisiani 9.1.2

        We have a building boom. More houses are being built now than at any time in the last decade. Home affordability (ex Auckland) is excellent due to record low mortgage rates. Home Start has helped many first time buyers. We are going to have a great summer apparently and at a BBQ last night I was struck by how many people realised that the country is generally doing well and that the few problem areas are being addressed by the government who seem to be really attuned to what is happening. Most of these people were traditional tribal Labour voters and none of them felt that Angry Andy was the answer.

      • KJT 9.1.3

        Fisiani forgot the Sarc. tag. Again!

    • mac1 9.2

      Angry Andy. Refer my post at 7 above.

    • Brendon Harre 9.3

      Bullshit Fisiani -especially for Auckland -where the housing crisis is the worst. Auckland built more houses in 1999, 2002, 2003 and 2004.

      Read about it here, in an article titled -“Despite much noise from the Government, its efforts to ramp up Auckland housing supply appear to be flagging; David Hargreaves crunches some numbers”
      http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/85338/despite-much-noise-government-its-efforts-ramp-auckland-housing-supply-appear-be

    • prickles 9.4

      Having lived with a builder for the better part of the last 30 years, summer is not the peak building time at all – most tradies all but grind to a halt for most of January and don’t ramp up again until after Waitangi Day. And try getting anything through Council during January – it just doesn’t happen as they are all at the beach as well.

    • greg 9.5

      why dont you cut out the personal remarks fis and get your head around the truth if you capable of that@!

  10. Treetop 10

    How long has it taken the government to have the same minister for Housing NZ and social housing?

    Far too long.

    From day 1 social housing needed to be run by Housing NZ. The money it has cost to implement social housing, would have been better spent within Housing NZ.

    Empty state houses lay vacant, the criteria to live in one has a high threshold.

  11. Brendon Harre 11

    In 1946 New Zealand was short of houses for 26,000 families. This is what we did.

    https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/housing-in-new-zealand-1946/quotes

    Maybe we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel and do that again? Maybe give it a new name? KiwiBuild sounds good…… Maybe add in a few policies to deal with land banking as that seems worse now compared with 1946. Andrew mentioned policies to remove land banking in his recent speech to residential property builders -so he is on top of that.

    Really the housing issue isn’t that complicated. It is just a matter of political will……

  12. mac1 12

    Marlborough Express today. 16% rise in house prices this year, as a conservative estimate.

    Now, what was the rate of inflation again? What was the increase in pensions again? What was the average wage increase again?

    • Sam C 12.1

      That’s disingenuous. If you provided a link to the article, it would show that this figure has been skewed by an unusually high number of top end property transactions in the Marlborough Sounds.

      But don’t let the truth get in the way of a good yarn, eh?

      • mac1 12.1.1

        Sam C, if you had read the article and read my carefully worded “as a conservative estimate” you would have realised that I was quoting a local respected real estate agent who had already taken into account the high end property transactions.

        Had you read the article you would have seen the 16% figure.

        My point was that a conservative figure, not one confused by high outliers, was still a 16% increase in price, which impacts heavily upon this province which Mark Stevenson pointed out is a low wage province, which you would have found out, had you read the article.

        Pillock. An apology for calling me a liar would be acceptable.

        For all to see. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/87782901/marlborough-house-prices-reach-record-high-on-back-of-sounds-lifestyle-sales

        So answer the question. How does a 16% increase sit alongside the inflation rate, the superannuation increase, or the average wage increase?

        • Paul 12.1.1.1

          He’s very busy trolling at the moment.
          9 puerile entries to rile people up.

          • mac1 12.1.1.1.1

            Yep, but I like to point out his stupidity, inability to muster a coherent argument, and disdain for facts. A true troll. Pity there is no shame involved in his makeup.

        • Sam C 12.1.1.2

          How many Blenheim cbd and surrounds transactions were there?

          I live in Blenheim. Sure, there is a low wage economy here, but there is also a transient workforce. Vanuatuans aren’t interested in owning a house in Blenheim. They are interested in pruning vines and sending money home.

          Answering your question, a 16% increase is a stat that is irrelevant when you take in to account the higher number of $600k plus transactions in the Sounds.

          But then again, you already knew that. And I didn’t call you a liar. I said your comment was disingenuous.

          • mac1 12.1.1.2.1

            Yes, you did call me a liar.

            “But don’t let the truth get in the way of a good yarn, eh?”

            Read the article in your local paper. This is what it says. “House prices were still increasing in the region, with Stevenson estimating an average rise of 16 per cent over the past 12 months.”

            That should take care of a few outliers. The figure for the year ending in July btw was 12%, as I recall.

            • Sam C 12.1.1.2.1.1

              Mark Stevenson, a local real estate agent talking up the market. That’s real subjectivity right there.

              I subscribe to the Marlborough Express, so I have read it.

              I bought a property in John St this year for $430k. The CV was $415k.

              That transaction must be an outlier though, right? ‘Cause Mark Stevenson hasn’t got a vested interest in talking the market up. Right?

              • mac1

                It gets worse for you, SamC.

                Instead of dumping on a respected local real estate agent, try these figures.

                QV Feb 2015-Feb 2016 increase in Marlborough 7.4%
                QV Nov 2015-Nov 2016 increase in Marlborough 13.4%^

                Now, remind me again how a pensioner, or a local worker, or most people who do not enjoy the kinds of profits enjoyed my property speculators, compare in terms of their average income increase with 13.4% in November.

                These figures are easily found on the internet.

                Still waiting for a retraction of the disingenuous, liar allegations, btw.

                • Sam C

                  If you are a pensioner looking to get in to the housing market for the first time, then that’s some pretty shit planning.

                  If you’re a pensioner who owns your own home, then you’ll be enjoying a bit of uplift.

                  I’ve already addressed the issue of local workers – the majority are on short term working visas and not looking to get into the Blenheim housing market.

                  Mark Stevenson may well be respected by you, but at the end of the day it is people of his ilk fuelling market increases for his own benefit. He is hardly objective.

                  Also, I’d be interested in evidence of property speculation in Marlborough. Any examples? No, I thought not.

                  • mac1

                    You don’t answer questions, do you? Divert, digress, deny.

                    Straw man questions you ask and answer yourself.

                    You don’t address the factual proof that I have given you.

                    You are not worth arguing with.

                    • Sam C

                      Go to bed, pal.

                      Come back in the morning with some proper game.

                      I’ll be offline until later in the day, ’cause, you know, I’ll be working.

                      You really are a battler and you and your bitter ilk are the reason why National will sail in to a fourth term next year.

                      Sleep tight.

          • mac1 12.1.1.2.2

            @ SamC “Sure, there is a low wage economy here, but there is also a transient workforce.”

            There was a low wage economy here in 1999, in fact then the lowest in the country.

            And yes it has to do with low wages paid to workers, funnily enough.

            • WILD KATIPO 12.1.1.2.2.1

              Thus now we see who Sam C is …. he bought a ‘ property ‘….. not his home.

              And therein lies the difference. The guy is nothing but a typical housing portfolio junkie… a speculator…. no wonder hes feeling the guilt’s … and the anguish of the coming downturn.

              It always strikes me as hilarious when these far right wing neo liberal trolls try and talk up their ideology…

              I think the most ludicrous moment was epitomized by Bill English saying ” we should be glad we have a low wage economy as it attracts foreign investment”

              ( * From the same guy who said contemptuous things about his fellow NZ workers – ever get the feeling he despises his own countrymen in favour of foreign moneyed up investors ?)

              And then Key in full blown denial about poverty in this country stands up and says ” we are on the cusp of an exciting future !!” …

              ( *Another one who denigrated his fellow NZ workers with insults , ie : lazy , drug addled , unemployable etc etc…. hes another one who deserves the confederate flag for his symbolism . )

              You know ,… for 32 years we have had to put up with these subversive wankers. Its time we arsehole them out of here and pass legislation designed to contain a definition of what neo liberalism is and make that sort of anti democratic, treasonous ideology illegal.

              John Philip Key and Bill English :

              Advocate of keeping the working poor in their place . Celebrants of the low wage economy and the ready pool of Work and Tenant Slaves. Be liberated, neo liberals ,… let your penchant for slavery go free . Celebrate your true inclinations under this flag. And as you will see, also contains the same basic colour scheme as Keys Red Peak.

              ‘ Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. ‘

              (A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.)

              Enjoy , arseholes.

      • joe90 12.1.2

        Must be all those top end property transactions that pushed up prices in the poorest suburb in Whanganui, too.
        /

        • Sam C 12.1.2.1

          Read the article before you comment, tool.

          • joe90 12.1.2.1.1

            A close to 15% rise in prices in one of the most deprived places* in the country can’t be explained away by $600k plus transactions so you resort to abuse.

            Class, dude.

            Castlecliff 10 – most deprived* (NZ Herald 2013)

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11254032

            • Sam C 12.1.2.1.1.1

              We were talking about Marlborough, not Wangavegas, that was my point.

              Tool.

              • joe90

                Same issue – housing costs in a low wage community are rising at a rate that sees working folk shut out of the market.

                Now, if you’re okay with it, would you please go fuck yourself.

                Ta in advance, sweets.

                • Paul

                  Sam C has been on this site all day annoying people with juvenile insults.

                  • Hes a property speculator among other things – ( and probably a lazy bastard to boot as he didn’t want to work anymore – easier to suck blood out of others )- and knows his assets and making cash out of screwing low paid workers is coming to an end. You can bet the first page he hits in the morning after the guy wakes up is the business section.

                    And those jitters the guys feeling AINT from having too many coffees in the morning.

                    • Paul

                      He’s also very boring.

                    • Sam C

                      Well, if you call putting a roof over your family’s head property speculation, then I’m guilty as charged.

                      The house in John St, Blenheim, is the only legal interest in property I have. I also have a $200k mortgage on it.

                      I don’t presume to know your circumstances, so how about you don’t presume to know mine.

                    • @Sam C

                      Regards his comment ” putting a roof over my family’s head ” :
                      ……………………………………………………………………………..
                      ‘ The house in John St, Blenheim, is the only legal interest in property I have. I also have a $200k mortgage on it. ‘
                      ……………………………………………………………………………..

                      * Easy to lie and deny online. As he states ” I don’t presume to know your circumstances, so how about you don’t presume to know mine.”

                      * Trusts go by a name slected – not necessarily and almost always not the actual owners given name.

                      * As a sidenote – this is exactly how John Keys foreign tax haven is allowed to be set up – by having anonymity regards trusts.

                      * If that statement of his above is correct – then he would almost certainly be using the house as an extension of his office space – and claiming that in his tax returns.

                      A humble working man ‘ putting a roof over his family’s head ‘ who holds rabid far right wing neo liberal ideology and comments against social democracy at every opportunity given ?

                      Yeah right.

                      The bullshit meter reading calibrations just exploded through the roof.

                    • Sam C

                      I own my home as tenants in common with my wife.

                      I’m not sure what I’d do with a trust vehicle and how it could possibly benefit me in my current circumstances.

                      I don’t have time to have an office at home, I work in the wine industry, which is by and large hard graft in the field.

                      But then again, I’m probably lying, eh Spidey?

                    • Ah yes,…so now we see… the office at the wine premises. Must have a lot of equity tied up in that land , eh Sam C….

                      And that lil house on the prairie covered by that and all?

                      Nice tax deductions going on there… bet your hoping like hell there isn’t a downturn in the global export trade or a rise in interest rates…

                      Not too good for the over leveraged , don’t you know old boy…

                      Well , well , well… I hear John Key has interests in the wine industry as well – so much so he used two bottles of wine as a bribe with with his pony tail pulling fiasco.

                      No wonder your such a sycophant.

                      Rubbed a few shoulders there as well, I presume?

                      Ill give you a little word to the wise , sonny… I know all about being self employed, working hard , having employees and what trusts are and what they are capable of doing …

                      Probably why I don’t bother with it all these days – or try to slime up someones arse or ingratiate myself with ‘ ethics challenged ‘ individuals like Key and co.

                      PS: dispense with your bullshit for a moment and tell us what you pay your workers on an hourly rate. Include overtime rates , and stat holiday’s, annual leave , days in lieu etc. And what safety measures you have in place and obligations under the law.

                      Should make an interesting read.

                      Anyways – back to work for you ,- as you said you had to go to work – don’t cut your fingers with the secateurs in the dark , old son.

                      Yeah right.

                    • Sam C

                      Where did I say I employed anyone, Spidey?

                      I’m an employee in the wine industry. I have two kids and earn a shade over $70k a year.

                      I don’t have a say in what my employer pays us, I just turn up and do my work.

                      But, this doesn’t fit your narrative does it?

                    • Oh so we’ve got a wine taster , have we , …L0L !…..that explains the constantly disjointed diatribes then. Well,… how much is the combined income worth , go on , be a devil , tell us how different $70k alone a year is from a minimum hour job… and is that person on the minimum wage reason to treat em with insecure work and zero hour contracts etc etc…

                      I guess being so far from the big centers is kinda hard for you to grasp whats going on then… those big wide open spaces…

                      Come from a poor background then as well with a burning ambition to make good? ,… like Key ?

                      I think we are all getting a still frame . Thank you.

                      Rags to riches story.

                      God bless America.

                      Oops… New Zealand.

  13. Pat 13

    it is an utter and complete failure of the market on every level….

    Government cheerleaders claiming some sort of renaissance on the back of a paltry 10,000 Auckland issued consents is a farce…..the number of consents issued never eventuate into units of construction but even if they did they are barely meeting half the required rate of construction…..and don’t get me started on the quality of those builds.

    “The penultimate version of the development rulebook was published last week. It flagged more higher density housing zones than previously planned to allow the estimated 421,000 homes needed to be built by 2040.”

    so not counting the already 40,000 shortfall we need to be building over 18,000 units a year….

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/309869/auckland's-construction-reality-falls-short-of-target

    cheerlead that

  14. adam 14

    The right wing response.

    “It’s not that bad – so shut up your complaining”

    “If you don’t like it go some where else”

    “Blame the opposition, not the people in power”

    “Get angry when people point out the holes in their argument”

    “Amoral, spin to feel good about doing nothing”

    “The market is providing”

    Did I miss anything?

    • mac1 14.1

      Here? Not answer questions.

      Local MPs? Don’t respond to mail. Don’t give promised responses to hand delivered reports on community situations.

    • mac1 14.2

      Here? Not answer questions.

      Local MPs? Don’t respond to mail. Don’t give promised responses to hand delivered reports on community situations. Cancel scheduled meetings.

      Drop off Christmas card list.

  15. Rae 15

    Here is Nick Smith today on Radio Live, sounding, as ever, like a broken bloody record, job title change has made no difference whatsoever
    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/A-chance-for-cheaper-housing-in-Hamilton/tabid/506/articleID/134562/Default.aspx

  16. mac1 16

    Wages and property speculation continued.

    “Ho, Ho, Ho way to go. As we sizzle sausages over BBQs this summer, think about what kind of NZ you want. More of the same – stagnant to falling real wages for most people with lots of migrants arriving to keep them suppressed, or immigration and tax reform that drives investment away from property speculation and into growing businesses.”

    Gareth Morgan. http://www.top.org.nz/to_contemplate_over_your_christmas_cheer

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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
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    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
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    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
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    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
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    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
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  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
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    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
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    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
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    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
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    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
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  • Are GNUs extinct?
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    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
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  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
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    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
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    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
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    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
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    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
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    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
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    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
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    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
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    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
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    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
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    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
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    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
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    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
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    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
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    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
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    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
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    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
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    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
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    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
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    1 week ago