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Rupert Murdoch on Charlie Hebdo

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, January 11th, 2015 - 123 comments
Categories: International, Media, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, uk politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

As a white bipedal male I wish to apologise for Rupert Murdoch being such a dick head. Maybe most of us are peaceful but until we recognise and destroy growing levels of stupidity within our ranks we must be held responsible.

123 comments on “Rupert Murdoch on Charlie Hebdo”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Hate-speech manufacturer with vile business practices turns out to be vile in person. Rocket-science, innit.

  2. The Fairy Godmother 2

    As a white Christian I wish to apologize for the Christian missionaries who blundered into other cultures and gave them western values including prejudice against homosexuals

  3. So, he would agree then:

    All US military personal should be held accountable for the actions of those at Abu Grab?

    All men should be responsible for rapists.

    Oh, and while we’re at it, how about all newspaper owners take responsibility for their staff who hack the accounts of dead children.

    • saveNZ 3.1

      Great Points!

    • AmaKiwi 3.2

      The irony is Murdoch’s line is precisely the same as the murderer’s who say, “Western petrol multinationals and the armies of the governments they bribe are the cause of the deaths and impoverishment of hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Therefore we can kill citizens of any of these governments.”

      If you are going to measure the pain and suffering, theirs is much greater than ours.

  4. ghostwhowalksnz 4

    “They must be held responsible”?

    So you are worried about the 1%- quick look over there

  5. Lucy 5

    So as a white Australian he is responsible for the attempted genocide of Australia’s first nations people?

  6. Colonial Rawshark 6

    Glenn Greenwald: very easy to defend free speech denigrating Muslims when you don’t like Islam

    Glenn Greenwald makes a distinction between defending free speech and defending the content of that speech. To him, the value of free speech is only realised when you are willing defend the expression of things that you do not like.

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/09/solidarity-charlie-hebdo-cartoons/

    On another note, I don’t see Murdoch criticising his wealthy friends in the USA for funneling billions of dollars and advanced armaments to the pro-Salafi, pro-Wahabi, pro-Takfiri aristocracy of Saudi Arabia.

    • Bill 6.1

      Revealing that no cartoonist felt able to draw up cartoons that mocked Judaism, or iconic Jewish figures for Gleenwalds piece, out of fear for their future career.

  7. RedLogix 7

    So if Murdoch had said, “Most Americans are peaceful, but until but until they recognize and destroy their growing militarist cancer they must be held responsible.” – would we be cheering him on?

    • weka 7.1

      USians have the chance to take part in the democracy they live in, so in that sense yes, they could work towards changing foreign policy and how the US military gets employed. Being responsible doesn’t mean blame or absolute control.

      Muslims come from a diverse range of cultures and nations across the globe, so the comparison doesn’t really work. Likewise, they have no control over extremists, it’s not like they vote them out at the next election or join a lobby group to have them change their ways.

      I think some of the comparisons in this thread are off, and missing the point. Redfed’s was on, because he took a group of people (white men) and demonstrated that they have little direct power in relationship to Murdoch. If he’d said he was a white male owner of media globally, or part of the 1% etc, then it might be different. Of course the great irony is that Murdoch himself has responsibilities that he’s denying.

      I think these distinctions are important, and it’s useful to get us talking about responsibility and what it is.

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.1.1

        Worth noting the global 1%, let’s say those on $100K pa, or who have a million dollars worth of net assets, are just pitiful middle class ants to people like Murdoch, who is a member of the global 0.0001% (one of the richest 10,000 capitalists in the world, alongside the Gates, Thiels and Bezos of this world).

      • RedLogix 7.1.2

        Muslims come from a diverse range of cultures and nations across the globe, so the comparison doesn’t really work.

        Yes I can see that there is a difference between the cases – in one instance we have the worlds most powerful nation and government, in the other we are talking about a cultural phenomenon that encompasses people living everywhere in the world.

        So in one sense I agree – it is unreasonable to demand Muslims everywhere to exercise a non-existent ‘vote’ to change jihadism.

        And it’s perfectly true that the vast majority of ordinary Americans have almost zero influence in the policies of their government. Democracy in the USA is dead. It really is unreasonable to hold them personally accountable for the direct actions of their government.

        But the one thing ordinary Americans and Muslims DO have control over is what they tolerate in their communities. If all the peaceful Americans actually stood up and demanded an end to their governments militarism and imperial adventuring – it would stop. But by their silence or acquiescence ordinary Americans become complicit in enjoying the material advantages of empire – without ever acknowledging or confronting personally its cost.

        So what of ordinary Muslims? There are voices in that community who are appalled and not a little terrified of where the jihadist madness will take them. But if every peaceful Muslim was to stand up and demand an end to it tommorrow – it would.

        • weka 7.1.2.1

          “It really is unreasonable to hold them personally accountable too.”

          I wonder if words like responsibility are being used differently here. When I talk about USians having responsibility, I mean that they can act to effect change and have an onus to do so (which is what I think you might be saying too). The fact that their democracy is being eroded makes that more true not less.

          I think if you want to make the argument that Muslims need to take responsibility too, then it’s better to be specifc. Talk about the Muslim communities in Sydney, or Paris. And then talk about what those communities are doing about terrorism. I’m willing to be that they are actually doing quite a lot.

          “But if every peaceful Muslim was to stand up and demand an end to it tommorrow – it would.”

          I don’t believe that. First, because you are still using the global term, you can’t account for all the situations where Muslims are unable to stand up due to fear of their lives, or the fact that they’re not allowed on the street without their husband or father, or they’re living in situations where the West’s problems with terrorism aren’t even on the radar. See the problem with the global generalisation?

          Second, I don’t believe that you can stop extremists with weapons without being willing to die or be hurt or watch your loved ones die or be hurt. Are you really suggesting that it’s ok for the West to ask Muslims globally to do this? (this is a completely different situation than the people in the US find themselves in, although African and Native Americans might beg to differ).

          • RedLogix 7.1.2.1.1

            I’m willing to be that they are actually doing quite a lot.

            As indeed it’s not hard to find anti-war USians.

            I don’t believe that.

            When I wrote that I had my doubts as well – for much the reasons you describe.

            I agree that many ordinary Muslims are in an appallingly risky situation if they want to agitate for social change – yet the average Westerner is not really much better off. Any significant or meaningful attempt at peaceful anti-war protest is bound to come at real personal cost. Certainly your job, home and family will be at risk.

            Yes in general there is a difference in the nature of the threat between the two communities here – but it’s a threat that is real and present nonetheless.

            • weka 7.1.2.1.1.1

              Not sure where you are going with all that to be honest. And it seems a waste of time to be arguing over the relative difficulties people in various places face in addressing violence, given this whole conversation is about whether Muslims globally are in a position to stop Islamic terrorists.

              • RedLogix

                Most people here would accept that men have a collective responsibility to address male violence – even when they are not personally in a position to do much directly about it.

                Most people here would accept that the American people have a collective responsibility for being complicit in enjoying the advantages of empire – even when they are not personally in a position to do much directly about it.

                Yet somehow ordinary Muslims are – just helpless.

                • weka

                  1. apply power analysis to those three groupings.

                  2. No-one has said Muslims are helpless (not sure what you mean by ordinary). That’s a redherring you’ve just brought in. Unhelpful framing IMO.

                  3. I’m not going to argue anything while the whole Muslims as one global amorphous mass thing is still on the table. I’ve put up my reasons why I think it’s invalid, and you haven’t refuted them.

                  • RedLogix

                    1. I did. I clearly pointed out the relative lack of direct personal power over the specific issue involved.

                    As an individual male I have almost zero direct influence over male violence. If I hear yelling and banging in the next unit I will – and have done so recently – act. Beyond that I’m helpless.

                    As an individual American citizen attempting to directly confront the US imperial war machine is even more hopeless.

                    As an individual Muslim confronting jihadism – well if a family member looks like taking an unplanned trip or otherwise becoming radicalised – I can intervene maybe.

                    But in all three cases – if an entire community of peaceful individuals stands up – a different outcome is possible. The power balance changes.

                    2. given this whole conversation is about whether Muslims globally are in a position to stop Islamic terrorists.

                    Did I read that incorrectly? I assumed you were arguing they were not – maybe you do think they are in a position to stop global terrorism. If so that rather confuses me.

                    3. Because jihadists do not arise in a vacuum. They spring from a global community. Tens of thousands of fighters have poured into Iraq to fight for ISIS from all over the world.

                    • weka

                      1. “I clearly pointed out the relative lack of direct personal power over the specific issue involved.”

                      That’s not what I meant, as I am sure you know.

                      2. Murdoch argues Muslims are globally responsible, I argue they’re not. The whole conversation is based on the idea of Muslims as a global force.

                      3 “Because jihadists do not arise in a vacuum. They spring from a global community. Tens of thousands of fighters have poured into Iraq to fight for ISIS from all over the world.”

                      That doesn’t really have relate to what we are talking about though. If you want to make the case for how Muslims are a global culture with global responsibilities, please do so. I’d also like to see the argument for them being a kind of hive mind where Muslims from different countries or different branches of Islam have the same ideas and responsibilities re terrorism.

                    • RedLogix

                      1. That’s not what I meant, as I am sure you know.

                      Well obviously not. Now would be a great moment to explain.

                      2. Islam is present in most countries of the world. Makes it pretty damned global to me.

                      What is more the stated goal of ISIS (however fanciful we imagine it to be) is to establish a global Caliphate and impose sharia law everywhere.

                      3. Muslims are no more a hive mind than any other group, yet by the very act of belonging (or choosing to remain in) that group they nonetheless assume some responsibility for the choices of that group.

                      If for instance I worked for a company – where the directors announced some policy I was ethically challenged by – I would have the choice of resigning or remaining and being held accountable for my choice. Would I not?

                      Real life for instance. While we were moving to Australia I was offered a brilliant job – had my name written all over it – and it paid fabulously. In the coal industry.

                      Turned it down. If I hadn’t what could have I said about global warming ever again?

                      PS: Yes I am aware that I had the personal luxury of the option to turn it down. But nonetheless the pay and conditions were way better than my present role.

                    • weka

                      Please explain how Muslims are a ‘group’ globally (as opposed to being a whole range of groups that vary hugely). Or explain how Muslims globally are a group like a nation is, or a workplace is.

                      And then explain how a 15 yr old girl in a Taliban controlled part of Afghanistan can resign from being a Muslim.

                      I think you also just argued that Muslims can end terrorism by stopping being Muslims. I’m not even going to comment on that.

                    • RedLogix

                      1. Because Islam is indeed a far more unified religion that Christianity. At one time I was told that you could count more than 2000 distinct sects of Christianity – spanning a wide range of interpretations.

                      The important point is that while there are many shades of interpretation within Islam, from medieval fundamentalism, to the rather metaphysical and abstract – they do all point to a very common community understanding. They themselves will clearly identify Islam as a single religion and a coherent global community – regardless of their national and cultural identities.

                      Perhaps it’s valid to compare Islam with Catholicism in this respect – both widely distributed globally, with many diverse communities – but nonetheless very clearly united by the Vatican.

                      2. That is why we do not hold children responsible for the actions of their elders.

                      3. Yet if I HAD taken that job and was faffing on at length about the evils of fossil fuels – and THEN announced I was working for a coal mine – what is the word you would use to cover that off?

                    • And then explain how a 15 yr old girl in a Taliban controlled part of Afghanistan can resign from being a Muslim.

                      Or a 15-year-old raised as a Muslim in any Muslim-dominated country, for that matter. That’s one reason it’s a totalitarian ideology that deserves no respect whatsoever.

                    • weka

                      1a. What’s the overarching organisation of Islam that means that Muslims can act from a unified whole?

                      1b. How do poor rural Catholics in South America have a say in what the Vatican does?

                      1c. How would poor rural Catholics in SA rejecting Catholicism change what the Vatican does?

                      1d. Citation needed for the Muslim world not being extremely diverse. Think culture and nationality if you can’t manage it religiously (although I’m pretty sure it’s religious too).

                      2. deliberately avoiding the point. Pick an age that means you can answer it directly.

                      3. your comparison is at best specious, at worst willfully ignorant. Not willing to argue over it.

                    • @ red logix..

                      :..Because Islam is indeed a far more unified religion that Christianity..”

                      that one was too much of a screamer to just let it slide by..

                      ..heard of the iran/iraq war..?..a.k.a…the great sunni/shia war..?

                      ..u do know that the reason baghdad/iraq is riven by sectarian conflict..is because the americans favoured one group over the other..

                      ..i mean..seriously..!

                      ..both religions are riven with histories of different sects doing terrible things to each other..

                    • RedLogix

                      @ pu

                      heard of the iran/iraq war..?..a.k.a…the great sunni/shia war..?

                      Yes – any single concise blog comment will always omit an aspect to be screamed at.

                      Historically the division between Sunni and Shi’ite stems right back to the question of who was the legitimate successor to Mohammed – a mistake that was made literally at the moments He was on his death-bed.

                      The actual details of the events are a fascinating story of confusion and human frailty. A quick look here outlines some of the story:

                      “Why has there been such a long and protracted disagreement and tension between these two sects?” asks Ray Takeyh, author of Hidden Iran: Paradox and Power in the Islamic Republic. “It has to do with political power.”

                      http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2007/02/12/7332087/the-origins-of-the-shiite-sunni-split

                      It’s been explained to me that it’s way less of a religious division (the two groups basically agree on very similar theologies) and more of a political, cultural one.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      With the Wahabi/Salafi extremist end of Sunni Islam gaining massive traction and funding during the 20th century thanks to the USA and other western support for Saudi Arabia and other dictatorial Middle Eastern regimes.

    • Ad 7.2

      President Eisenhower would be.

      • Colonial Rawshark 7.2.1

        Only at the end, when he realised what a monster was being established. Carter too. But again, only at the end.

    • So if Murdoch had said, “Most Americans are peaceful, but until but until they recognize and destroy their growing militarist cancer they must be held responsible.” – would we be cheering him on?

      Well, I wouldn’t, but I suspect a significant proportion of the Standard’s readers would.

      Murdoch is a well-known shithead, and collective responsibility is as crap a concept as collective punishment. That said, these guys were motivated by Islam as an ideology, so Muslims do need to be having a good look at their ideology. It’s a very unpleasant one.

      I know the vast, overwhelming majority of Muslims are content to just ignore all the stuff about whose necks they should be smiting and just work with the less-obnoxious stuff about prayers and fasting and giving to charity, but that doesn’t alter the fact their ideology promotes it. There were plenty of fascists content to ignore the stuff about Jews and just work with the less-obnoxious stuff about national unity and pride, and no end of communists content to ignore the stuff about armed overthrow of the state and just work with the less-obnoxious stuff about helping the working class, but the fact that they were very nice people you’d be happy to have as neighbours didn’t alter the fact they were endorsing and promoting unsavoury totalitarian ideologies. There may have been nothing they could have done about Hitler/Stalin and it would have been wrong to hold them responsible, but let’s not pretend they’d made great choices about what to support.

      • RedLogix 7.3.1

        and collective responsibility is as crap a concept as collective punishment. That said, these guys were motivated by Islam as an ideology, so Muslims do need to be having a good look at their ideology.

        Is there not a contradiction between those two sentences? I know the two statements seem different in your mind – but consider this. What if Muslims did NOT take a good look at their ideology? What if they quietly cheered on the jihadists, or at least effectively did so by passively enabling them? Would you not hold them collectively responsible then?

        Which indeed you have effectively argued for in your last paragraph. There you seem to make a very eloquent case for collective responsibility.

        • Psycho Milt 7.3.1.1

          I think there is a difference. If you were a fascist or communist living in NZ in the late 1930s, your personal responsibility for what Hitler or Stalin got up to, and your ability to influence what they got up to, was non-existent. It would be nuts to say you fell under some kind of collective responsibility for their actions, but at the same time your fellow citizens would have been entitled to tell you freely and frankly that no they weren’t going to respect your murderous totalitarian ideology.

          What if Muslims did NOT take a good look at their ideology? What if they quietly cheered on the jihadists, or at least effectively did so by passively enabling them? Would you not hold them collectively responsible then?

          Sticking with my analogy, western socialism in 1940 was full of people finding all kinds of reasons why it was right for the USSR to help the fascists and to invade Poland etc. They were individually responsible for their personal stupidity in supporting a totalitarian ideology, but they weren’t responsible in a collective sense for the USSR’s actions.

          • RedLogix 7.3.1.1.1

            All fine points.

            But if enough Germans in the 1930’s had told Mr H to fuck off – history might have taken a different turn. But they didn’t because frankly it would have been difficult and risky to do so.

            Same with the hard-lefties in the 1940’s – admitting that Stalin had betrayed their ideals was an admission of defeat and a loss of face among their friends and peers. Different sort of threat – but real to them all the same.

            Fact is – effectively challenging any group dynamic is risky. Question is – who is willing to pay that price and who is not?

            That divides the sheep from the goats.

            • Colonial Rawshark 7.3.1.1.1.1

              But if enough Germans in the 1930’s had told Mr H to fuck off – history might have taken a different turn.

              And even later, there were opportunities to change course. Most of the Wehrmacht generals realised by the start of the second half of 1943 that Hitler was well on the way to destroying their nation. They should have immediately withdrawn from France and the USSR, and sued for peace. That would have been the logical, rational thing to do.

              But societies which are neck deep in their current endeavours do not do the logical or rational thing.

              • RedLogix

                And then afterwards came the accountability – the Nuremberg Trials.

                Not to mention the 15% or so of Germans no longer alive at the end of it all.

              • AmaKiwi

                Don’t underestimate the power of a totalitarian regime. If you object, you die in silence.

  8. Scottie 8

    Alarming to think someone with such influence on world media has such opinions. The damage and hate opinions like this foster is unthinkable.

  9. weka 9

    via twitter,

    Justin Lewis ‏@Mumbler3 10 hrs10 hours ago
    Reminder that Dennis Potter named his cancer ‘Rupert’ after Murdoch.

  10. joe90 10

    heh

    Mr Denmore ‏@MrDenmore

    Perhaps Rupert should raise that with Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, his 2nd largest voting shareholder?

  11. Matthew Hooton 11

    He is only using the same logic as those who believe in “rape culture” and who mock those who argue that not all men are rapists.

    “Maybe most men aren’t rapists but until they recognise and destroy the rapist cancer they must be held responsible (and apologise for being men).”

    Personally I don’t really believe in collective guilt and blame. But those who defended the “logic” of David Cunliffe’s “apology” will, I assume, agree with what Murdoch is saying here.

    • weka 11.1

      :sigh: Rape analogies rarely work.

      Please tell us who exactly believes in rape culture and mocks people who argue not all men are rapists. Be specific.

      I’d also like some evidence for those that say ‘men must be held responsible’. Just so I know what the fuck you are actually talking about rather than trying to make sense of your obvious passive aggressive agenda about rape culture.

      In this case, it also fails because while men, in general (let’s say NZ men for simplicity’s sake), come into direct contact with rapists, and are part of the culture that sanctions rape, therefore can have some input into whether rape continues or not in our society, most Muslims don’t have contact with extremists and psychopaths that misuse Islam for their own fundamentalist agendas.

      “Personally I don’t really believe in collective guilt and blame”

      Neither do I (and I’d hazard a guess that DC doesn’t either), but thanks for dropping these off-topic, sensationalist and triggering strawpeople into a discussion that is already pretty fraught and difficult enough 🙄

      • Go to twitter, search for #NotAllMen

        • Te Reo Putake 11.1.1.1

          Alternatively, why don’t you just answer the questions weka put to you, Matthew. Or do you just not have any answers?

          • weka 11.1.1.1.1

            Why have answers when you can have a misleading agenda instead,

            https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/552874963246403585

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Btw Matthew, what the difference between men and Muslims?

              • RedLogix

                While there are obviously different things, in this context we are talking about identifiable groups of humans who have some members with problematic behaviours. In the light of Murdoch’s tweet we are thinking about the nature of the collective group’s responsibility to address those behaviours.

                (As a bit of a tangent, it’s worth noting that one of the Paris criminals still being sought after last I looked, is a woman.)

                • weka

                  Apply power analysis and you might see what I was getting at.

                  “(As a bit of a tangent, it’s worth noting that one of the Paris criminals still being sought after last I looked, is a woman.)”

                  Why is that worth noting?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.1.2

          Cunliffe articulates his feeling of personal responsibility for male violence against women. Hooton feigns horror and creates false equivalence.

          Discuss.

        • RedLogix 11.1.1.3

          Which takes us back to a familiar spot does it not?

          While on one hand we reject collective guilt and blame, while on the other we can recognise a collective responsibility for what we tolerate in our communities.

          I raised the same argument above using the slightly less emotionally loaded issue of American imperial militarism.

          In that case an argument can be made that ‘ordinary peaceful’ Americans are nonetheless complicit because by their silence they still get to enjoy the material advantages of imperialism – the USA still being the richest country and all.

          It’s harder to see what advantages non-rapey males gain by being silent in the face of violence against women. That’s a whole other can of really long worms – but many women have made the case that male silence bolsters and reaffirms the patriarchal power structures that benefit them in other ways.

          The point is of course – where does collective guilt stop and collective responsibility start? And where does passive complicity fit in?

          • Matthew Hooton 11.1.1.3.1

            That’s a more thoughtful response to my comment that others. I just never saw that David Cunliffe had any personal responsibility, let alone guilt, for violence against women, just as I don’t see that the overwhelming majority of Muslims, including those close to me, have any responsibility for 9/11, Bali, 7/7 or Paris. But I also think it is wrong to say the Koran and Islam have nothing to do with those events (just as rape obviously has something to do with the perpetrator being male). But it is inaccurate, in my view, and even morally reprehensible to start expanding responsibility, guilt, blame etc from the terrorists or rapists to other Muslims and other men. It is interesting that two parallel debates have erupted on the blogs over the last year, and those who backed Cunliffe now tend to be saying Not All Mulsims whereas those who said “Not All Men” tend to be saying something like “Yes, All Mulsims”.

            • rhinocrates 11.1.1.3.1.1

              Cite please.

            • RedLogix 11.1.1.3.1.2

              Agreed this has always been a tricky debate.

              mac1 below makes a really useful distinction:

              When Rupert Murdoch – a non-Muslim – attempts to assign collective guilt onto all Muslims, we instantly recognise that as problematic.

              If a prominent Islamic clergyman stood up and said exactly the same thing – we might well applaud it.

              (And effectively this is what DC was doing too – but as a potential leader of the nation it came with a whole cartload of baggage which buried him.)

              • That baggage was deliberately thrown upon him by Hoots, Farrar, Key et al who were happy to trivialise discussion of rape and domestic abuse for immediate political advantage.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  Apologies in politics are very risky things. Basically, Cunliffe should never have gone anywhere near the statement, the statement was (and remains) out of touch with the mood of most NZers.

                  • I must admit that I facepalmed over it – he walked right into a trap there. We often use the sporting analogy of “letting the side down” and everyone agrees that there is indeed a team of which we are all a part. It could so easily have been phrased along the lines of “there are men who fill me with shame to be associated with them, but then I ask myself, as we should all ask ourselves, ‘what can we do to make sure that they know that they cannot do this, how can we as men show them what it is to be a good man?’ “

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Sigh, if only you had been the one writing the speeches in the Leaders Office.

                    • Murray Rawshark

                      Yep, he could have got his message across a lot better. On the other hand, if Tories were honest and interested in the actual issues, Cunliffe may have done OK with his apology. I think he’s a bit of an idealist and didn’t realise the filth he was up against. So much for McCarten being the great political street fighter – he certainly didn’t seem to have any effect on the campaign.

                      Yet when an Imam or a Sheikh stands up and says sorry for what extremists are doing, the same people who rubbished Cunliffe will say what reasonable people they are, not like most Muslims.

            • weka 11.1.1.3.1.3

              “But it is inaccurate, in my view, and even morally reprehensible to start expanding responsibility, guilt, blame etc from the terrorists or rapists to other Muslims and other men.”

              You are conflating responsibility with guilt/blame. That’s you basically contaminating the debate. If you don’t want to feel guilty, great. But don’t assign your process to other people’s politics when you are clearly misrepresenting them.

              “It is interesting that two parallel debates have erupted on the blogs over the last year, and those who backed Cunliffe now tend to be saying Not All Mulsims whereas those who said “Not All Men” tend to be saying something like “Yes, All Mulsims”.”

              What’s the difference between men and Muslims? How are the politics different?

            • phillip ure 11.1.1.3.1.4

              “..It is interesting that two parallel debates have erupted on the blogs over the last year, and those who backed Cunliffe now tend to be saying Not All Mulsims whereas those who said “Not All Men” tend to be saying something like “Yes, All Mulsims”…”

              a considered/intelligent..seeming spin-free..comment/observation from hooton..

              ..knock me over with a bloody feather..

              ..i have been posessed by the evil sprite that lives in mike williams/.

              ..and am forced to say:..’i agree with matthew’..

              ..and tho’ that pattern is not surprising..

              ..that u chose to highlight it..is

              • Murray Rawshark

                It’s not a balanced comment at all. Those who say “Not all men” are almost all men. There is a strong possibility that those who say “Yes, all Muslims” are not 100% Muslims. The difference is brutal and I’m surprised it wasn’t more obvious to you, Phil. I’m pretty sure weka saw it, or she wouldn’t have asked her question What’s the difference between men and Muslims? How are the politics different?”

    • Interesting. Effluvium does or did PR for a wife-beater Liu. Hoots was happy to take paycheques from him and look the other way. That says enough about his views on misogyny and “responsibility”.

      Adittionally, Hoots, you’ve obviously been returning to the Standard, so you’ve seen questions about your responsibility in a (thankfully incompetent) conspiracy to murder or at least ensure an attack on Nicky Hager, so Mr Responsibility, here is an excellent opportunity to answer a question.

      Seems you’re running from a lot of questions you fucking coward.

    • Olwyn 11.3

      It is not quite the same – those who argue about rape culture tend to be members of the same culture, and are either defending some aspect of the status quo or advocating change. Whereas I can’t think what reason the Islamic community would have for heeding Murdoch’s advice at all. If you are Islamic and live in another culture it behoves you to obey its laws, or face the consequences if you do not. The same for anyone else living in a culture that differs from their own. At the same time, if a group of people sees you as their enemy, you have to work out how best to deal with that, but you are unlikely to lap up their advice from such a position. The world is simply not the play-mobile set of white know-alls.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 11.3.1

        If you are Islamic and live in another culture it behoves you to obey its laws, or face the consequences if you do not. The same for anyone else living in a culture that differs from their own.

        Where does that leave the UDoHR?

        If I live in a culture that differs from my own and by doing so abuses human rights (John Key’s New Zealand, for example), it behoves me to change it.

        • Olwyn 11.3.1.1

          In which case you face the consequences, should there be consequences. Even in trying to bring about cultural change you cannot afford to be presumptuous.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.3.1.1.1

            Meanwhile, well-financed spin merchants are busy trying to dismantle culture altogether. Perhaps what we can’t afford to be is timid.

    • Rape culture is a well-documented phenomenon which has been used by historians, political scientists, psychologists and sociologists for nearly 50 years.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

      But don’t let the truth get in the way of a good piece of rightwing propaganda.

    • Murray Rawshark 11.5

      Not your best effort there, bro.
      There’s a difference between men fighting to change the culture around sex and all men being sentenced to prison for a rape committed by one. Murdoch’s proposal would have made the butchers of Lidice happy. Collective punishment is rejected by most Kiwi jurists, even though it’s common when you’re a guest of Corrections.

  12. mac1 12

    “Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible.”

    The problem I have with this statement is the use of the third person plural. This is the classic language usage of the blamer, the excluder, the vengeance seeker be it through war or the justice system.

    “Maybe we are mostly peaceful, but until we recognize and destroy our growing cancer of inequality we must be held responsible.”

    That statement works for me.

    So does this one. “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Now, who said that?

    • weka 12.1

      Good points.

    • RedLogix 12.2

      Agreed. The framing difference is subtle – but powerful all the same. Thanks.

    • mac1 12.3

      Actually, Christ’s statement really is judgemental. For me, a more powerful statement
      is ” I am hypocritical if I attempt to remove the mote from my brother’s eye before I remove the beam from my own” or more simply and less pointedly, “I should remove my own beam before I attempt to remove the mote in my brother’s eye.”

      The other reason why I like this beam/mote analogy, is the realisation that our own prejudices are bigger than the ones we see in others, our own violence is bigger than some other’s, our own world view skews problems to seem that way where the other is at more fault than are we.

    • Murray Rawshark 12.4

      So does this one. “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Now, who said that?

      I’m pretty sure it was one of the earlier prophets, before Mohammed.

      • mac1 12.4.1

        Nice reply, Murray Rawshark, to state a non-Christ-centred point of view.

        My use of ‘our’ favourite prophet is of course to point out to people from our Christian culture that Christ was very hard on hypocrisy and blame, as Rupert Murdoch illustrated.

        France today declared Paris the ‘capital of the world’, as if it never had not been….. Presidents and PMs talked about democracy and tolerance, and linked arms. All well and good, but there’s quite a bit of timber in their eyes to be removed before a claim of hypocrisy can be plausibly denied.

    • mac1 12.5

      Thanks, Weka and Redlogic.

      One of my former students posted on Facebook this article cited below from the Guardian in December 2014, which reinforces my comment about the “growing cancer of inequality.”

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/12/how-new-zealands-rich-poor-divide-killed-its-egalitarian-paradise

  13. To say that Hoots is being disingenuous or a hypocrite is redundant (when is he not?), but it is interesting to see what a raw nerve a term like “rape culture” touches and the reaction it engenders. So much so that the likes of Hoots will cynically use a terrorist atrocity in their own defensive argument.

    It’s rather sickening to trivialise the killings in that way.

    Anyway, Rape Culture and the fallacious “Not all men” argument (appropriately) deconstructed in a cartoon here:

    https://pepperonideluxe.tumblr.com/post/101061454652/a-comic-about-seagulls-if-you-feel-like-this

    And since Hoots only accepts PERSONAL responsibility, is it a bad thing to incite or solicit the killing of someone because of what they publish? There’s a simple question and dear Hoots, you have first-hand experience of such a case of responsibility.

    Please explain your feelings on this.

  14. Come on Hoots, it’s a very simple and pertinent question.

    Maybe I couldn’t hear your answer over the sound of crickets.

    Is it an evil thing to kill or solicit the killing of people who publish what you do not like?

  15. vto 15

    This certainly brings the comparison with the principle that all men have some responsibility for mens violence because they are men…. as some have pointed above

    Always amusing to see the pinhead dancing and hair-splitting when a principle’s consistent application leads to undesired outcomes..

    There is also of course another significant factor to toss into the mix of this issue and that is the existence of choice as to membership of these groups (men and islam). Men cannot choose whether they are responsible for mens violence (via membership principle) whereas muslims can choose whether are responsible for muslim violence (via membership principle) …. and that is simply not reasonable at all. My ancestors fought to remove any faecal detritus of birthright, be it right or obligation….. they sailed the oceans to escape birthright.

    And here are some wankers trying to impose birthright on us again? …. piss right off back to the dark ages please

    • weka 15.1

      Love to see you answer my question to Red above: how can a 15yr old girl in Taliban controlled Afghanistan resign from being a Muslim?

      • vto 15.1.1

        I saw that. The problem comes in reconciling your point there and the principle thing of course, but it is easily solved methinks …… the principles thing is high level and the example thing is an application example. They are two different questions. One – what is the principle behind it; and two – how does that get applied ‘on the ground’.

        Clearly under the example you provide it would be nigh impossible..

        However for example a new convert in a western nation should have a complete choice ..

        I prefer to argue principles and leave their application to later …………. more fun and easier ..

        • weka 15.1.1.1

          Also extremely prejudicial.

          I am also pretty sure there are plenty of examples in the West where stopping being a Muslim is not the easy thing you make out. Consider if it means losing ones family or community. Or where one is married to a Muslim and has Muslim kids.

          Then consider that being Muslim is not just about religion it’s also about culture.

          This whole line is fucked anyway, because it assumes or implies that if non-violent Muslims stopped being Muslims then Islamic terrorism would also cease. Which is probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on ts is a long time.

          • vto 15.1.1.1.1

            Well perhaps not but I know what you mean. Your view though is still born of trying to marry together the principle with its application …. try not

            Imo the principle thing remains – the imposition of rights and obligations by way of birth is not something that sits at all well with that part of NZ that places egalitereanism in a prominent place, does it.

            How many people in the world I wonder, would rather have been born without any obligation or the like imposed on them because of their birth? I know an awful lot of women have been wanting that for some considerable time …. so why is it now appropriate weka?

            • weka 15.1.1.1.1.1

              I have no problem whatsoever with being born into a family that was Anglican.

              Not sure what you mean about women. Or why we are even having this conversation. Is it related to the post?

              • vto

                subtle in avoidance

                • weka

                  You’d have to be more specific. I don’t actually understand what you are talking about or how this relates to the post. I think you could be more clear.

                  • vto

                    birthright and birthobligation and their consideration in the application of the collective responsibility principle ….. particular sample groups being men and muslims ….

                    but you have just raised a doubt in my mind as to whether you are being genuine in your ‘I don’t follow’ response’ …

      • RedLogix 15.1.2

        Well I did answer above. Any 15 yr old girl has almost zero power in any situation like that – she is still virtually a child.

        Made worse within the Islamic community by the very real and oppressive ‘honour culture’ that is deeply entwined with it and hugely impacts on the rights of women of any age to act with agency.

        Made worse again by the fact that anyone who recants their belief or leaves the faith is regarded as an apostate. Under clear traditional law this was punishable by death. And usually was. In modern conditions I’m less clear how this works – but it’s still considered a very, very serious matter that WILL have a big impact on a person’s life. Especially their family.

        Given that practical options for anyone stopping being a Muslim are very limited indeed – does this entirely absolve them from anything that is done in the name of their Faith?

        • weka 15.1.2.1

          I stopped going to church when I was 11. I stopped believing in god when I was 13. I did so publicly. Virtually zero negative consequences for me.

          I see you avoiding answering the points I am making.

          • RedLogix 15.1.2.1.1

            Yes – Christianity is quite different in that respect. Well some of it.

            My partner has not spoken at all to her nutjob fundie Catholic father for over 30 yrs on much the same grounds. I can assure you the consequences have been distinctly non-zero.

            • weka 15.1.2.1.1.1

              Still avoiding the points I am making. You said it was someting to do with age, I demonstrated that that’s not a given.

          • RedLogix 15.1.2.1.2

            I see you avoiding answering the points I am making.

            Sorry – exactly what answer did you want? Because I’ve tried very hard to respond to your each and every point in detail.

            • weka 15.1.2.1.2.1

              1. In response to your idea that Muslims can resign from Islam and being Muslim in the way that you can make choices about which job you take, I gave an example of a woman in Afghanistan. Instead of replying to the point (that many Muslims can’t resign), you focussed on the age of the person as if that somehow was relevant.

              2. When I point out how age isn’t relevant, you don’t respond to that point, but instead talk about Christianity as if that makes it different.

              • vto

                The example isn’t overly helpful to the issue of whether the collective responsibility principle is applicable amongst humankinds peoples

              • RedLogix

                Oh – of course the two cases are not exactly identical in terms of a practical response.

                In one case the correct response was resigning from (or not accepting) the job. It would have been hopelessly hypocritical of me if I had. Fortunately I had the luxury of being able to choose not to take it – at only the personal cost of about $100k of annual income.

                On the other hand – for reasons I’ve detailed above- given the option to resign or stop being a Muslim is very limited for the vast majority – then some other course of action is required if they find themselves in ethical conflict with what some people are doing in it’s name.

                Otherwise by their silence they become complicit. Doing nothing does not make the ethical problem go away.

                Just arguing that only a few extremists are taking up guns in the name of Islam doesn’t really work. For instance – we get upset when the NZ Super fund – something that represents symbolically the whole of NZ – invests in tobacco or armaments. They may only be a tiny fraction of it’s total portfolio – but we recognise the ethical problem all the same. We don’t want to be associated and we speak out.

                • weka

                  Maybe someone else can make sense of that, because I can’t.

                  Why are you assuming that Muslims aren’t doing something about terrorism?

                  • RedLogix

                    Why are you assuming that?

                    All I said is that doing nothing was not an ethical option. Muslims understand ethics much as we do – and many of them do indeed take action. Often at considerable personal risk.

                    And as rhino below expands on – the largest group of victims of Islamic extremists have been other Muslims.

                    Just because I say “A is true” does not mean that I am also saying “B must be false”. That’s called binary thinking and it’s a weirdly unhelpful habit.

                    • weka

                      ok, well I now have no idea what this conversation is about at all. Your analogies make no sense to me. The only clear thing I’ve got is that you seem to think that Muslims could resign from being Muslim and that this would stop terrorism.

                    • RedLogix

                      The only clear thing I’ve got is that you seem to think that Muslims could resign from being Muslim and that this would stop terrorism.

                      Which is the one thing I have clearly stated is not a practical option for most Muslims. I even detailed the reasons why.

                • Red what do you believe or not believe in? Say you are atheist and someone of that belief system commits mass murder, and others around the world who are also atheist commit other atrocities and murder. If that creates an ethical issue for you what do you do about it? Resign from atheism, stay silent, protest…

                  To me it is the same thing as you are describing above.

                  You had choices in the job situation but you do realise that others have fewer choices and some are in the position that they effectively have no choice – you say a muslim should try some other course of action – like what?

                  The thing is imo we all live with ‘ethical problems’ every day, every hour and every minute – our middle class lifestyles have stripped the planet yet we still go on even when we know the truth of our excesses – we do it and for a nanosecond feel bad, then we do it again. If we have ethical issues with our ‘group’ as described in this way what should we do? Resign from the middle class, protest, stay silent… or…

                  • RedLogix

                    I appreciate the atheist argument as far as it goes. But it leaves out a couple of important things.

                    At the moment there is no official ‘church’ of atheism. No formal institutions to belong to, no-one to formulate an ideologies, policies and rules.

                    So if one nutter atheist somewhere in the world commits mass murder then yes it’s unreasonable to hold all the others responsible. The community of atheists is simply too loose and ill-defined to make such a thing possible. Most atheists would never dream of belonging to anything.

                    But religions in general are far more institutional and powerful than this. They do wield considerable power and authority over their members – and they in turn strongly identify not just with the idea of the religion – but actively support it’s earthly goals and actions. I would argue that does place a moral burden on its members to speak out about ethical abuses committed in the name of that religion. Wherever they happen.

    • Leonor 15.2

      All people (men and woman) have an individual responsibility and a collective responsibility for everything that is unjust.
      People may not have time to be a part of ‘all’ collective responsibilities physically, but to have an opinion and/or good ‘intent’ is just as valid, any change is good- external or internal. A person’s opinion or intent can influence, therefore change can occur, through one person, or millions.

      If we live on this planet we are all responsible for it and what takes place on it. Period.

    • Sorry VTO, this is not aimed at you personally, but is intended to make some distinctions that are more than just hair-splitting.

      The “not all men” argument is criticised because it is so obviously defensive with the subtext of “you are being unfair and therefore I am a victim of your accusation, waaah!” and is repeatedly used as a diversionary tactic to close down discussion of rape.

      It’s rather hypocritical too – on one hand, one who says “not all men” tries to separate themselves from men who are rapists but then wails that discussion of rape unfairly victimises men as a group.

      Instead, look at the connection rather than the difference between sins of omission and sins of commission. It is a sin of commission to rape, but it is a sin of omission to do nothing when one could prevent an atrocity or to tacitly facilitate it. For example, Farrar is not guilty of rape, but he thinks that it’s a jolly lark to go to fancy dress “Princess Parties dressed as infamous serial rapists and happily associates with correspondents who overtly boast of their intention of stupefying and raping teenage girls. He personally is not guilty of an individual rape, yet he supports a culture in which it occurs and in my opinion is morally culpable through his passivity when he could act to prevent it.

      I suggest you look at Pastor Niemoller’s famous poem that begins “First they came for…”

      When you hear about rape culture, it’s narcissistic to say that you are being lumped in with rapists. It’s indeed not about all men, but it’s aimed to provoke men to think about how, unknowingly, passively, tacitly they turn the other way. To cry “not all men, not ME” is to obscure the point. I’m not a rapist, I know that nobody ever said I was, so “not all men” is a red herring. I do have a responsibility not to look the other way however, and that is the true point being made.

      Think, as a man, about “us”. Maybe David Cunliffe should have said “Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a man because fellow men rape, what can we as men do to stop it?” Maybe you don’t laugh at the rape joke in the pub, maybe you don’t congratulate a man on his masculinity for forcing a woman, maybe you hear someone say “When she says no, she means yes” and instead of remaining silent, ask them about that. It doesn’t require great acts of heroism or defensiveness. It certainly doesn’t require photo-ops with that odious “Not ashamed to be a man” T-shirt.

      Furthermore, it is not some clever reductio ad absurdum to say that it’s just being “consistent” to say that it must also be applied to all Muslims. There are one and a half billion Muslims on this planet and the vast majority of victims of terrorism are themselves Muslim. They are of course ardently opposed to terrorism, they struggle hard daily against it and are killed for it my extremists who accuse them of being on the side of the infidels. It’s something that’s been done by extremists for millennia: attack the moderates so that there can be no middle ground and therefore no peace.

      We don’t see those statistics reported in our media, instead we see under such circumstances a media presentation of them as the “other”. There are over a billion Muslims who do struggle against terrorism because they themselves suffer from it within their community. To say that they do not and should is a blatant, racist lie by Murdoch.

      Weka points out about to Hoots eloquently, “You are conflating responsibility with guilt/blame. That’s you basically contaminating the debate. If you don’t want to feel guilty, great. But don’t assign your process to other people’s politics when you are clearly misrepresenting them.”

      There is no obvious equivalence at all, it is a distortion. One does not have to get defensive because defence is not the point, defensiveness is diversion.

      • vto 15.3.1

        ” It is a sin of commission to rape, but it is a sin of omission to do nothing when one could prevent an atrocity or to tacitly facilitate it”

        Yes it is that is correct. However, that “omission”, which is the critical factor, has nothing to do with being male and everything to do with being human. I get the collective responsibility for male violence, however it comes via my humanity not my masculinity.

        That is the end of it.

        And that is the way things pan out – I think most people who do act in commission rather than omission do so due to their humanity – a person does not act to help someone due to their gender or other grouping, they help due to their humanity (extreme cases excluded).

        … and please give up on the “defensive” fallacy when this issue is raised… its tiresome and entirely inaccurate.

        • rhinocrates 15.3.1.1

          responsibility for male violence, however it comes via my humanity not my masculinity.

          That is the end of it.

          You are confusing biology with culture. It does not come from your XY chromosomes, true. It does however come from cultural constructions of what it is to be a man.

          Certainly any human being can commit a generic act of violence against another human being and their sex has nothing to do with it. However, when a crime – such as rape or partner abuse or “honour killing” – is inherently one of misogyny and the abuse of power relations between the sexes, then one’s placement in a cultural system is crucial. Yes, there are women who rape men and men who rape men, but there is a cultural downplaying of rape OF women BY men as “rough sex” or “she was asking for it” or simply by silence. That is what we are being called upon to address and change – and which we can change by changing what culture defines as normal relations between men and women.

          True, culture says that rape is wrong overtly, but underneath and behind that there are sniggers and silence and blind eyes and they are a part of culture too, like it or not. They are what have to be addressed and that is the demand being made.

          … and please give up on the “defensive” fallacy when this issue is raised… its tiresome and entirely inaccurate.

          Sadly, it IS a defensive rhetorical reaction. It is an overt attempt to shut up a complaint by first distorting discussion of rape as an accusation towards all men of being rapists, which is untrue and then by declaring it irrelevant. It is a straw man and deserves to be condemned, no matter how “tiresome” you find it.

          It’s not all about you.

          • vto 15.3.1.1.1

            rhincrates: ” True, culture says that rape is wrong overtly, but underneath and behind that there are sniggers and silence and blind eyes and they are a part of culture too, like it or not. They are what have to be addressed and that is the demand being made.”

            Jeez, you make some assumptions don’t you? You still haven’t explained why those sniggers and silence and blind eyes up are more the responsibility of men than all of humanity. You make a leap without justification.

            I am very tired of this lumping of collective responsibility. This link with the collective responsibility of all muslims for the actions of the jihadis is a good one because it exposes the deficits in such an approach.

            Those with the most responsibility for men who are violent are their parents – their mothers and their fathers.

            So come on mums, why the fuck you raise these pricks?
            Come on dads, what on earth have you been doing while this man was a child?

            And finally this rhinocrates…”Sadly, it IS a defensive rhetorical reaction. It is an overt attempt to shut up a complaint by first distorting discussion of rape as an accusation towards all men of being rapists, which is untrue and then by declaring it irrelevant.” is simply not accepted..

            For the defence to be a distortion first the complaint must be credible, so you haven’t even got to step one yet. Suggesting that all men have an increased responsibility for violent men is the distortion away from the complaint.

        • weka 15.3.1.2

          “I get the collective responsibility for male violence, however it comes via my humanity not my masculinity.”

          There are conversations that men can have with each other about rape that I as a woman cannot take part in. I agree that humanity is part of that, but it’s can’t be divorced from gender.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 15.3.1.2.1

            A woman who criticises rape jokes = “fuck off, shrill harpy.”

            A man who criticises rape jokes = “Oh shit, sorry dude.”

            (Yes, it’s an oversimplification, #notallrapejokes etc etc)

            • One Anonymous Bloke 15.3.1.2.1.1

              +1 to Weka and Stephanie both.

            • rhinocrates 15.3.1.2.1.2

              Speaking of humour, I was listening to some albums by Margaret Cho recently and the jokes about the racial expectations she faced as an Asian-American really made me squirm, thinking “I couldn’t say that” – which was exactly the point and realising that, I could laugh with her, understanding her experience a little bit better. Humour and satire in skilled hands can break up unexamined prejudices. Bad jokes are those that reinforce prejudices.

              So anyway, yeah, that’s well put.

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 15.3.1.2.1.3

              You’ve obviously never been a white male who has stood up to those (white males mainly) making such jokes.

              If you think the response is as you have stated you’re quite mistaken.

              It’s cost I, and others I know, jobs, promotions, friends, business opportunities, customers…

              On the other hand it’s also given us respect, self-respect, support, and at times has resulted in some real change in behaviour and attitude.

              Wouldn’t not stand up and say anything – indeed made someone I met this weekend quite disgruntled that he didn’t quite get the response he thought he was going to get when telling a man his age a highly offensive joke about young girls but it was also pretty clear I was the only one in the room stopping him from continuing – despite others discomfort.

              It’s actually quite easy to say something but tbh I’ve never seen either of the responses you outline above.

              I don’t think it’s simplistic – just inaccurate.

              • weka

                Good for you Ssssmith. That’s the harder end of the spectrum and I wish more men were able to go there.

                I took Stephanie’s comment to be more in the middle of the spectrum, the men who are going to have a reflexive reaction to being told by a woman but not by a man.

                And what I myself meant was that there is ground to be made by men talking to men. This is both in the creative sense and the challenging sense. I think men need to have male spaces to talk about this and how to work on it and having women there makes that harder or impossible or simply just changes the conversation.

                • Descendant Of Sssmith

                  With the rise of the right in this country I’ve noticed quite a reversion to many of the pre-mid 80’s behaviours and practices.

                  In the 80’s in particular I think there was a real effort (within organisations) to change and to remove the sexist behaviours and approaches, engender positive support for those of other races and abilities.

                  It wasn’t everywhere and it wasn’t consistent but those who sat in relatively independent roles in many businesses and government departments in jobs such as EEO advisors, cultural advisors, health and safety etc made some real change.

                  The approach of independent observation and commentary engendering change was replaced by a “it’s now business as usual approach” and in some cases has now been replaced by places having someone look after the greening of a business eg paper waste.

                  It probably was business as usual for those in management roles at the time but those people have been replaced.

                  Wider social policy innovation has been replaced by Harvard Business School thinking and cost benefit analysis has been driven down to only cost analysis.

                  Many of these areas have gone backwards.

                  The classic symptom for me is the re-emergence of the women in management who behave like these men – and are expected to do so.

                  The swearing, the crudity, the sexual innuendo and the openness of this.

                  I’m pleased that some still stand up against this. I was quite shocked recently with the number of women who I came across supporting Roger Sutton for instance.

                  It saddened me that we’ve stepped so far backwards in many areas of social justice.

                  • weka

                    going into the third term of a govt that excells at undermining NZ’s fairness for all culture is part of it. But I do think there is a larger backlash going on, and some of its to do with being too many decades down the neoliberal, I’m out for me path.

            • Murray Rawshark 15.3.1.2.1.4

              A man who criticises rape jokes = “Oh shit, sorry dude.”
              I’ve seen more of this:
              A man who criticises rape jokes = “Don’t be a soft cock, mate.”
              And sometimes it’s heard in the rugby clubs that FJK wanted Cunliffe to go and apologise in.

            • vto 15.3.1.2.1.5

              Stephanie Rogers: “A woman who criticises rape jokes = “fuck off, shrill harpy.”

              A man who criticises rape jokes = “Oh shit, sorry dude.”

              (Yes, it’s an oversimplification, #notallrapejokes etc etc)”

              What an oversimplified pile of rubbish. Pity it is at the heart of your point.

      • Murray Rawshark 15.3.2

        Great comment, rhino. I’m glad you’re posting again.

        • George Hendry 15.3.2.1

          @ rhinocrates – first prize for valuable comments among a set that make the difference between left and right blogs ever so obvious 🙂

          Valuable work, never letting Mr Hooton forget the question he hasn’t answered yet. So much dirty politics depends on distraction and short memories.

  16. TheBlackKitten 16

    See when you apologise for being white because another white person & a male at that has said something offensive (in your mind) all you are doing is unnecessarily drawing the racist/gender card to a head and making a molehill out of a mountain.
    As for Murdoch why not call for all Aussies to apologise for being Australian or how about, all people born in the same year as Murdoch apologising for being born in the same year as him. Do you see how absurd this political correctness is.
    And whilst on the subject of Murdoch how about those moderate Muslims explain to the rest of us why they don’t seek or condemn the actions of a radical few. Are they too frightened of them?
    And please, lets not be stupid enough to bring out the – this is a cult that has nothing to do with religion card. Anyone that does not have their minds muddled with political correctness will see that these extremists are basing their ideals from how they see the Koran which is a religious writing.
    Murdoch is not asking a unreasonable question, what he is doing is asking a question that does not involve any political correctness.
    However I would have thought that a rich boy who is head of a news outlet would have had better spelling skills than Moslems???

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    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    2 days ago
  • A note on apartments and bubbles
    As Aotearoa enters week two of lockdown, it’s clear we’re all still working out what our “bubbles” look like and how to stay in them to stop the spread of Covid-19. New to the government’s Covid-19 website is some good guidance for people living in apartment blocks. Recent decades have ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    2 days ago
  • Getting in futures shape 
    “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” Lenin Don’t we all know that feeling now.

    Prospect Magazine alerted me to this particularly apt quote. It is a much more evocative quote than Hemingway’s “gradually then suddenly” which is also doing ...

    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    2 days ago
  • Maybe axing Clark would be unfair. But what about any of this is fair?
    Yesterday was the day the consequences of the lockdown suddenly got very real for many. Firms have been closing and laying people off since the outset of the quarantine but this has mostly been happening out of the public eye. The mass closure of a number of iconic New Zealand ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    2 days ago
  • Might a ‘Coasean’ social contract mitigate overall societal harm from COVID-19?
    Brian Williamson1, Prof Nick Wilson2 (1Economic consultant, UK; 2University of Otago Wellington) In this blog, we outline how a win-win social contract could be forged to address the major dimensions of response to the COVID-19 pandemic when using a mitigation strategy: the particular need to protect older people from high ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 days ago
  • Returning To “Normalcy”.
    Resuming Normal Service: The Republican Party's nominee for in 1920, Warren Harding, promised the American people: “not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration”. If she wishes to remain our prime minister, then Jacinda Ardern will offer New Zealanders the same.HOW EDUCATED AMERICA snickered when the ...
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand’s Government Must Save New Zealand’s Media.
    No Free Society Without A Free And Functioning News Media: If we are to surrender our civil rights to the broader cause of defeating Covid-19, then foreign corporations must, likewise, surrender their right to inflict immense economic and cultural harm on New Zealanders simply because it improves their bottom line.I’M ...
    2 days ago
  • Corona fevers and the madness of models
    by Daphna Whitmore A third of the world is under lockdown and a clear assessment of this measure to curb the spread of COVID-19 is urgently needed.  With any high-stakes decisions it has to be asked what are we dealing with here? Are the measures warranted? Will they achieve their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Lockdown day 8
    I haven’t done a huge amount in the last few days. I’m reading The Poppy War and I’ve sort of poked at a couple of games – I started SOMA but I’m a wimp and I quit while in the first room after the brain scan. I might try it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    2 days ago
  • Backstage and Theatre
    The swan politicians may be gliding on the water, occasionally snapping at one another. Meanwhile, as the Covid19 crisis illustrates, the officials are desperately paddling below providing the real locomotion. One of the most fatuous recent grandstanding comments (of about a week ago), adding to the public’s anxieties, was ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 days ago
  • Legal Beagle: Waiver, the singular Crown and the conduct of Crown legal business
    Much has been written about the importance of discretion in an emergency situation, and the concerns raised by the potential for it to be exercised arbitrarily. Given the quality of the discussion, there seemed little point in adding to it at any length. In particular, I point to the evidence ...
    2 days ago
  • Highlights from Bauer Media’s science-related reporting
    Today has felt surreal. I was all set to touch base online with my science communication students when a colleague shared the news that Bauer Media would be shutting down its publications immediately. The first link I saw implied it was Woman’s Weekly affected, and even that shocked me. But ...
    SciBlogsBy Sarah-Jane O'Connor
    2 days ago
  • Outsiders.
    Bogeymen, Real And Imagined: Is the number of psychopathic and sociopathic individuals in any given society truly as vanishingly small as we like to tell ourselves? Isn’t it more likely that the mass-shooters and serial-killers filling the headlines represent only the tip of a much, much larger iceberg of frightfulness? ...
    3 days ago
  • We have a right to know the rules we are expected to obey
    Outgoing Police Commissioner Mike Bush appeared before the Epidemic Response Committee today, who asked him for the rules police are using to enforce the lockdown. He refused:Police Commissioner Mike Bush has admitted the advice given to Kiwis about what they're able to do during the lockdown hasn't been clear enough. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7 (sanitised version)
    For those folk who find my other Lock-Down Diary versions too “negative” or otherwise unpalatable… Here’s a photo of my cat, . . Better? Tomorrow’s Sanitised Version: a pretty flower. . . . =fs= ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7
    . . April 1: Day seven of living in lock-down… This morning I had a brief chat with one of my neighbours, “D” (social distance between us, a good three or four metres). I learned he had resigned from his previous job and had been hired by another company – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • RIP The Listener, New Zealand’s pioneering voice
    Funnily enough, my thought as I start this post is whether it will be well written enough. Or should that be well enough written? Because so much of what I know about good writing came from my two stints at The Listener, which this morning was shut down due to ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    3 days ago
  • OK, Britney: stop sniping at National for doing its job
    With normal democratic procedures in abeyance, there were two ways to go. First, it was open for the government to dissolve itself and invite the National Party to join a ministry of national salvation. That would have lessened the democratic deficit of the times by having a team of rivals without ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    3 days ago
  • Helpful tips for parents during lockdown
    Dr Kirsty Ross Children and young people can respond differently in times of distress. This also varies by age and developmental stage, with younger children having more magical and imaginative thinking, and older children having more awareness and knowledge of the issues our communities are facing (which brings up ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #13, 2020
    3 days ago
  • Hungary is now a dictatorship
    Hungary has been a virtual dictatorship for a decade now, as Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has gradually eroded its democracy. But now, its official, with the passage of an indefinite emergency law allowing rule by decree:Hungary’s parliament has passed a new set of coronavirus measures that includes jail terms for ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • A new Ministry of Works
    While the economy is on pause under lockdown, the government is beginning to plan how to cope with the post-lockdown, post-tourism, post-export education world we will eventually find ourselves in. They're planning a lot of infrastructure spending as economic stimulus, and have asked for proposals which can start the moment ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Capture: Well spaced out
    It's my distraction,  setting up tiny scenes to photograph.  I've got stuck on the Babushka dolls for now.  Something about their bubble shape.  Something about their never changing, smiling features, suggesting persistent equanimity.  Can we get through everything that is being thrown at us and keep at least a tiny ...
    4 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 6
    . . March 31: Day six of living in lock-down… This time I managed to sleep a little longer and the alarm woke me at the pre-set time: 6.55am. Then remembered I was working a later shift and could’ve slept in. Oh well, there are things to do at home. ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • March ’20 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: Diamond Harbour School Blogs I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is unexpectedly missing or ...
    4 days ago
  • Hard News: Poll Pot and the partisans
    Yesterday's Horizon poll showing support for a "Yes" vote in this year's cannabis referendum sliding into the majority for the first time in a year looked like good news for reformers – and it probably is. But the result warrants some scrutiny.The poll is the fifth in a series commissioned ...
    4 days ago
  • Why those bubbles are so important
    For almost a week now, every one of us who isn’t an essential worker has been confined to their bubble. We are allowed to go shopping for groceries, to visit the doctor, and to get a bit of exercise if we stay local. The reason we are doing this is ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    4 days ago
  • A Government System That Works
    The Covid-19 saga will no doubt produce many twists and turns for us before it is finally brought to an end. But one thing it has shown us – and what comfort it should bring us – is that our country’s government is in good hands. I am not thinking ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    4 days ago
  • Smashing down the barriers: Where are we at with COVID vaccines?
    In the absence of a vaccine or a cure for a deadly disease, staying home in your bubble is what you do, the concept is not new.  To the best of my knowledge last time we did this in NZ was for polio, in the years before a vaccine came ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    4 days ago
  • National Network on Cuba (USA): “Cuban medical solidarity is a pillar of its society and is founde...
    The following statement was released on March 28 by the National Network on Cuba, a coalition of 40 groups, based in the United States. In recent weeks, Cuba has deployed hundreds of medical providers to over a dozen countries in Europe, Asia, as well as to their neighbors in Latin ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Alarming decrease in calves increases fears for endangered Hector’s dolphin
    This has been a terrible summer for Hector’s dolphins. The first indication was very low numbers of dolphin sightings during late spring and early summer. The Otago University Marine Mammal Research Team has carried out routine dolphin surveys at Banks Peninsula for more than 30 years. In all that time, ...
    SciBlogsBy Otago Marine Science
    4 days ago
  • Time for Grant Robertson to reveal package #2?
    On March 17, Finance Minister Grant Robertson was quick out of the blocks with an economic rescue package to help businesses through the inevitable recession resulting from the coronavirus pandemic. Robertson had pulled together a scheme in short order that so far seems to have saved many jobs. In his ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    4 days ago
  • Saving lives
    The purpose of the lockdown is to save lives, by reducing the spread of covid-19. We won't know if its really working for another week, but given the devastation that will result if it doesn't - 14,000 dead is the optimistic scenario - its definitely worth trying. But pausing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 5
    . . March 30: Day five of living in lock-down… Woke up still in darkness. Alarm hadn’t gone off. Turn to radio clock; it’s a few minutes after 6am… I lie there in the dark, waiting to drift off to sleep… but it ain’t happening. Clock ticks over to 6.55 ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Les Gray: the man who told the truth
    The story of Les Gray, the public sector psychologist who told the truth about his use of cannabis and set off a storm, has a special place in the lore of cannabis reform in New Zealand.When Paul Shannon interviewed Gray for the 'Dope and Hope' issue of Planet magazine in ...
    5 days ago
  • Why now? Historical specificity and the perfect storm that has created trans identity politics
    by Phil Duncan For Marxists, a key concern about social trends is their context – not just their causes, but why they happen when they do.  Events and phenomena have causes, but they also are time or period-specific. While much of the left have capitulated recently to postmodernism, most notably ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Time for a living wage for supermarket workers
    Since the lockdown began, we've all suddenly been reminded who the actually essential workers in our society are: not the people at the top who pay themselves the big bucks and rort the perks, but the people at the bottom they screw over and squeeze: cleaners, warehouse staff, truck drivers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Hard News: MUSIC: Lockdown Grooves
    Kia ora! As I've watched nearly all my remaining work vanish over the past couple of days, it has occured to me that one good way to keep me away from arguing with fools on Twitter all the time (in the knowledge that all we're really doing is processing our ...
    5 days ago
  • A place of greater safety?
    Aotearoa New Zealand has committed to trying to extirpate the virus that causes COVID-19 from its shores. To do that, as a society we’ve moved to “Level 4”. That means adapting to unprecedented restrictions on our personal freedoms, particularly to our rights to move freely and associate with friends and ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    6 days ago
  • The police and public trust
    When the Prime Minister declared a state of emergency last week, she handed the police powers to enforce it. And almost immediately, we started hearing about heavy-handed, arbitrary "enforcement" by police who (at best) cared more about order than law, or (more likely) had no idea what the rules were ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 4
    . . Lock Down: Day 4 – A photo essay with observations . March 29: Usual wake up routine as RNZ snaps on my radio-clock. Jim Mora’s voice slowly enters my conciousness; there’s talk of a second wave of covid19 taking hold in South Korea; the week in Parliament – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19 vs New Zealand
    Yesterday, New Zealand recorded its first Covid-19 related death on the West Coast. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the only fatality, with the virus now being found in every region of the country.However despite the significant danger, people are still unfortunately breaching lockdown rules.There’s really only one main very ...
    6 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #13
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... ‘Misinformation kills’: The link between coronavirus conspiracies and climate denial   Grist / Rob Kim / Stringer / CSA Images  Scientific ...
    6 days ago
  • Rāhui day 4
    The kids did surprisingly well today – meltdown count was about 3, and mostly fairly short ones. (And a fourth while I was writing.) Game-wise I had a go at Fell Seal: Arbiter’s Mark. It’s a fairly standard RPG with turn-based combat and what they call a “mature storyline” (it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    6 days ago
  • Letter to a friend
    by Don Franks Hi David, Nice hearing from you, I’m glad to hear you’re getting by okay in these grim times. You asked how’s it going for us back here in New Zealand. You would have heard that the whole country is locked down and with breaks for exercise and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 3
    . . Lock Down: Day 3 – A photo essay with observations . March 28: First day of the first weekend in Lock Down. It feels like it’s been weeks since only Level 3 was declared last Tuesday, only four days ago. Woke up this morning to RNZ; coffee; toast, ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    7 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #13
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 22, 2020 through Sat, Mar 28, 2020 Articles Linked to on Facebook Sun, Mar 22, 2020 In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters by Chelsea Harvey, ...
    7 days ago
  • Rāhui day 3
    I’m here in lockdown with my flatmate and her two girls (6 and 2) and it. is. a time. They’re usually really active so to start with the only boardgame in the house is the copy of Guess Who that the 6 year old got for her birthday. Flatmate commented ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    1 week ago
  • A test of civil society.
    The CV-19 (COVID) pandemic has seen the imposition of a government ordered national quarantine and the promulgation of a series of measures designed to spread the burden of pain and soften the economic blow on the most strategically important and most vulnerable sectors of society. The national narrative is framed ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 2
    . . Lock Down: Day 2 – A photo essay with observations . March 27 – Day 2 of our Strange New World. The Park and Ride near my suburb, usually filled with hundreds of vehicles, had just… four; . . Another drive into Wellington City on a highway nearly ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • How Do You Feel? What Do You Think?
    Fortune's Children: Under extraordinary pressure, the leader of the Government and the leader of the Opposition will each show us what they are made of. Have they been blessed with intelligence, grace, wit, poise, toughness, empathy and humour – and in what measure? More importantly, to what extent have they ...
    1 week ago
  • Landlords are NOT an essential service
    If you’ve ever had the misfortune of having to rent a property on the open market in New Zealand, which is one of the most expensive in the entire world, you’ll likely be keenly aware of just how arrogant and entitled landlords and their real estate agents can be.Unfortunately for ...
    1 week ago
  • A “new Society” post-COVID19 will definitely emerge. The question is: on what path?
    Society-wise, aside from the specific morbidity shall we say of the medically-oriented aspects of this COVID-19 crisis, what is unfolding before the world is in more than one way an instructive study of humanity and reactions to a high intensity, high stress environment in real time. Friends, we are at ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: Everything you need to know about the wage subsidy
    Right now low waged and insecure workers are feeling the economic brunt of the looming #Covid19 Recession. In response legal advocate Toby Cooper* and hospitality and worker’s rights advocate Chloe Ann-King, are putting together a series of legal blogs about your employment rights: In this legal blog we outline some ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • The massacre of prisoners in Modelo jail, Bogota, March 21
    by Equipo Jurídico Pueblos and Gearóid Ó Loingsigh (25/03/2020) An escape plan in question On the night of March 21st and the early morning of the 22nd, the forces of the Colombian state stormed into the Modelo prison in Bogotá, murdering 23 prisoners and injuring 83, in response to the ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • We are not America
    When the government banned semi-automatic weapons in response to a terrorist atrocity, gun-nuts were outraged. Mired in toxic American gun culture, they thought owning weapons whose sole purpose was killing people was some sort of "constitutional right", a necessity for "defending themselves" against the government. Now, the Court of Appeal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • When will we know the lockdown is working?
    Just before midnight on Wednesday March 25, Aotearoa New Zealand entered a countrywide alert level four lockdown. For at least the next four weeks, everyone who isn’t an essential worker is confined to their bubble. We are doing this to stop the explosive growth in people contracting and dying from ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • Lock Down: Day 1
    . . Lock Down: Day 1 – A photo essay with observations . Day one of the Level 4 nationwide lock-down (or, DefCon 4 as I sometimes cheekily call it) started at 11.59PM on 25 March. For a moment, most of the nation held it’s collective breath. In that brief ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • A Compelling Recollection.
    Broad, Sunlit Uplands: How those words fired my young imagination! Or, perhaps, it is more accurate to say: how those words fused, in my young mind, with the image printed on every packet of Fielder’s Cornflour. Always fascinated by history, especially modern history, I cannot hear Churchill’s wonderfully evocative words, even ...
    1 week ago
  • The Warehouse – where everyone gets a virus
    . . 24 March 2020 9.46AM Number of covid19 cases in Aotearoa New Zealand: 102 . As of 11.59 on Thursday, most of New Zealand will go into “lock down”. People will be expected not to travel to work; not to socialise; and to stay home. I will not be ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Aggressive action to address climate change could save the world $145 trillion
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections A respected research group, Project Drawdown, finds that deploying solutions consistent with meeting the Paris climate targets would cost tens of trillions of dollars globally. But crucially, those outlays would also yield long-term savings many times larger than the up-front costs. The new 2020 Drawdown ...
    1 week ago
  • After the Pandemic
    It will pass. What happens next? Not immediately, but longer term. There are many opinions, fewer certainties. Will it “change everything!” as many confidently, and contradictorily predict? In this post I look at how foresight can help bound some of the uncertainties so you can more objectively consider the future. ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Coronavirus – Cuba shows the way
    We’ve been meaning t write something on Cuba and the coronavirus but have just discovered a very good article on the subject in the US left publication Jacobin.  The article looks at how Cuba, a poor country but one where capitalism has been done away with, is leading the way ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Using privacy law to prevent the death penalty
    In 2018, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey - two British citizens who had purportedly been stripped of their citizenship by the British government - were captured while fighting for Isis in Syria. The British government then conspired to hand them over to the US, and agreed to provide evidence ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • It’s Time For Disaster Socialism.
    Transformers: The disaster of the Great Depression was transformed into a new and fairer society by the democratic socialism of the First Labour Government. The disaster of the Covid-19 Pandemic offers a similar transformative possibility to the Labour-NZ First-Green Government. Seize the time, Jacinda! You will never have a better ...
    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
    Tamper with The System? Well, we already are. But there's a difference between accidentally trickling sand into a precision gearbox versus formulating a plan to alter it on the fly with improvements in mind. One action is more or less innocently unscrupulous, the other amenable to earning an easy ...
    1 week ago
  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
    Associate Prof George Thomson, Louise Delany, Prof Nick Wilson While it is possible that New Zealand can use intense public health controls to eradicate COVID-19 from the country – we must also plan for other scenarios where thousands of New Zealanders are sick – including many urgently hospitalised.1 Better resilience ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or being ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    2 weeks ago

  • Further measures to support businesses
    The Government will be introducing legislation to make changes to the Companies Act to help companies facing insolvency due to COVID-19 to remain viable and keep New Zealanders in jobs. The temporary changes include: Giving directors of companies facing significant liquidity problems because of COVID-19 a ‘safe harbour’ from insolvency ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Govt’s COVID plan, economic strength recognised
    The Government’s plan to cushion the blow of COVID-19 by supporting incomes, jobs and businesses, and position the economy to recover has been backed by another international report. International credit rating agency Moody’s today reaffirmed its highest Aaa credit rating on New Zealand, saying the economy is expected to remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Funding certainty for sports through COVID-19
    National sports organisations have been given certainty of funding to ensure they can remain viable through the COVID-19 pandemic, Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “The global spread of COVID-19 has had a significant impact on sport and recreation in New Zealand, including the cancellation or postponement of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
    Changes have been made to allow butchers to process pork, only for supply to supermarkets or other processors or retailers that are open, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “We carefully weighed the risk of allowing butchers to open their shops for retail customers, but the risk of spreading COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Essential workers leave scheme established
    Essential workers who take leave from work to comply with public health guidance are being supported with a leave scheme to ensure they will continue to receive income, say the Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. A number of essential businesses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
    A Government WhatsApp channel has been launched to help make information more easily accessible and shareable in the fight against COVID-19. Govt.NZ, which is free to use on any mobile device, will carry information and news for the public, businesses, healthcare providers, not for profits and local government. It can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
    The Government has announced a plan to enable the safe, orderly exit of tens of thousands of stranded foreign nationals from New Zealand during the current COVID-19 Alert Level 4 restrictions, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has said. “When we moved into lockdown a week ago, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says the Government is delivering on its commitment to support general practice doctors and nurses, and pharmacies on the front-line of our fight against COVID-19. "For us to overcome COVID-19, we need community health services such as general practice and community pharmacy to step up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Supermarkets able to open on Easter Sunday
    The Government is ensuring supermarkets can open on Easter Sunday so we can buy groceries, but stay closed on Good Friday allowing workers to take a break. This provides a balanced approach and ensures we avoid large queues that two days closure may cause. “Supermarkets will be able to open ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
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  • COVID-19 updates
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  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
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  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
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  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
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