Sad

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, February 9th, 2017 - 109 comments
Categories: afghanistan, us politics, war - Tags:

For Trump supporters right now surely you’re feeling pretty good? You were joyous Hillary lost. You may have hailed the Muslim-dominant country ban as basic common sense. Perhaps the responding chorus of complaint from Washington institutions and experts and other know-it-alls like judges, academics, corporate leaders, foreign governments, and former government officials is what you’d expect from losers. A new sheriff is in town, doing the business, so suck it up right?

His broad assault on an out of touch and unaccountable elite resonated really well with lots of voters. Surveys consistently showed a sizeable percentage of the American people wanted less military intervention, and were deeply sceptical about global economic arrangements that favoured a rich few.

In fact if you were not able to face a Hillary Clinton presidency, and wanted Trump simply because he would deliver smarter, more self-interested, more restrained, and above all more successful foreign policy, you should be deeply worried. Why? Because in just three weeks he has squandered the biggest opportunity of a modern president to put American foreign policy on a more solid footing. He has also united and empowered opposition at home and abroad in ways that would have been hard to imagine just months ago.

A President Trump that delivered what he promised would now be on the path to a more restrained and effective U.S. foreign policy. He could have affirmed his complete opposition to Bush-era “nation-building” military interventions, and wind down the drone strikes and targeted killings that have done little to reduce danger from terrorism.

He could have concluded that Afghanistan was a losing proposition, and stated when and how he would get the U.S. to disengage.

He could have set out an actual logic and a plan for decreasing tension with Russia, including decreasing armed border presences and nuclear arms.

He could have set out an actual plan to get Europe and parts of Asia to take more of the burden for their own defence.

He could have simply said to the entire Middle East that he was no longer their perpetual traffic cop and social worker and dealer, and re-set to neutral the U.S. stance between Saudi Arabia and Iran – and in doing so re-set U.S. tacit favouritism of one kind of Islam over another which drives so much Middle Eastern sectarian rage.

He could have told Israel that if they want one-state apartheid that badly, they will deal with the consequences on their own.

If he’s done any of that, he would have delivered on his promise of clearing away establishment beltway positions. After the foreign policy, diplomatic and military leadership had finished fainting, the U.S. would have stayed on an even keel and he might have been well positioned for re-election in 2020. Save us all.

Instead in three weeks he did none of those things. He picked several useless fights with China. He badgered the Australian Prime Minister, despite Australia supporting the U.S. from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan shoulder to shoulder. He picked a pointless fight with the Mexican president. He rolled out an unlawful ban on Muslim immigrants, and did it on Holocaust Remembrance Day, as if a reminder of what a really strong state feels like again. He started sabre rattling with Iran. He had a nasty little hit in Yemen, even though no one can tell who’s good or bad there. He went even more incoherent on Russia and Putin.

Inside days, U.S. enemies have been handed powerful new arguments with which to embarrass, delegitimise, and undermine America’s image and reputation. It’s pretty weird to share this sentiment with William Kristol, David Frum, or Eliot Cohen.

Trump was supposed to be the one to sweep away the old, tired establishment triumphalism of the old era. For your entertainment, this is a personal neocon triumphalist favourite of mine from G. W. Bush’s Attorney General John Ashcroft, where he really Let the Eagles Soar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbU9BZYcg1Y

Some of Trump’s supporters – both left and right – flocked to Trump because they were tired of the failed strategy of presumptive U.S. hegemony, and were worried that Hillary were going to repeat those same mistakes. They aren’t getting the fresh, restrained approach they were hoping for.

I would say it was “Sad!”, but it’s just tragic.

109 comments on “Sad ”

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  1. Bill 1
    9 February 2017 at 8:51 am

    Or then again, maybe those who have for years commented on the fine raiments of Presidents are finally being forced to confront nakedness…

    Trump wasn’t supported by people on and of the left. Clinton wasn’t supported by people on and of the left.

    Now we have a non-politician as the most powerful politician on the planet. And he’s not really doing anything new…just building or extending and expanding on the past legacies and policies of those well presented and (supposedly) finely clothed former Presidents.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      9 February 2017 at 11:52 am

      +1

      Exactly.

      • emergency mike 1.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 8:12 pm

        Both sides howling to the moon about the other’s lies, hypocrisy, ruthlessness, subversion, warmongering, and general sociopathic behaviour. Both sides not quite psychologically ready to accept that they are both right.

  2. TheExtremist 2
    9 February 2017 at 8:56 am

    It’s actually pretty scary now. Imagine if there was a Military Coup in the US? That would be terrifying. Or if China and the US went to war? That’d be bad for us here and in Aus given our major diplomatic partner is the US but biggest trade partner is China.

    The scariest thing is that these outcomes are no longer philosophical – they are reality.

    • Andre 2.1
      9 February 2017 at 9:03 am

      Personally I’m actually less panicked than I was two months ago. Because the Chump is such a cartoon caricature he’s clearly highlighting the necessity of strong independent institutions than can and will say “no”. Which helps the people in those institutions do the right thing.

      • Morrissey 2.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 9:07 am

        The way they said “no” to the aggression against and destruction of Iraq? The way they said “no” to the drone assassination campaigns in Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq, Gaza and Syria?

        I really hope you’re right, Andre, but I don’t share your optimism.

        • Wayne 2.1.1.1
          9 February 2017 at 12:52 pm

          Morrissey,

          When has the US ever used drones in Gaza?

          I know that you are opposed to drone attacks, but in a war against terrorists, how do you arrest people in places that do not have active governments in much of their territory.

          For instance the US and the UK could not have arrested “jihadi” john, the executioner, since he was deep inside ISIS territory. He was therefore targeted in a drone strike as the most effective means of stopping him.

          I would also note that drone strikes are typically much more precise than the bombing campaign by Russia in Syria.

          The courts are not going to start running military campaigns. That is why the courts do not tell the US president how to run foreign policy or military strategy.

          • Ad 2.1.1.1.1
            9 February 2017 at 12:56 pm

            You’re a lawyer aren’t you Wayne?

            What’s the legal basis for US drone strikes?

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.1.2
            9 February 2017 at 12:59 pm

            When has the US ever used drones in Gaza?

            The U.S. pays for and diplomatically supports every drone killing carried out by the Israelis.

            For instance the US and the UK could not have arrested “jihadi” john, the executioner, since he was deep inside ISIS territory. He was therefore targeted in a drone strike as the most effective means of stopping him.

            You will therefore be supportive of any drone strikes carried out against U.S.-domiciled terrorists—Cheney, Rice, Bush, Obama, Trump—by forces, governmental or non-gvernmental from, say, Syria or Iran or Lebanon or Somalia or Yemen or Honduras or Venezuela or Libya.

            I would also note that drone strikes are typically much more precise than the bombing campaign by Russia in Syria.

            Nonsense.

            The courts are not going to start running military campaigns. That is why the courts do not tell the US president how to run foreign policy or military strategy.

            The courts can, and must, determine whether or not the executive is acting lawfully or not. The President is not a law unto himself, even though this one seems to think he is.

            • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1.2.1
              9 February 2017 at 1:45 pm

              Nonsense.

              Just a tip for future reference: if someone’s claim is reasonable and intuitive on the face of it, the response “Nonsense” just makes it look like you can’t face facts.

              • reason …
                9 February 2017 at 7:45 pm

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpzk7OdbjBw

                Drone wars ….. blowing up wedding parties and villages …. based on shit intelligence …. and impunity.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  9 February 2017 at 8:58 pm

                  Why do people who don’t have an argument always invite me to watch lengthy propaganda videos instead? If you can’t actually say what it is you want to say, don’t bother commenting.

                  • Morrissey …
                    9 February 2017 at 9:06 pm

                    Have you watched Collateral Murder yet?

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      10 February 2017 at 7:25 am

                      What would it tell me that I don’t already know? This is a comments thread – if you have arguments, make them. Telling me there are compelling arguments but they’re concealed somewhere within an hour of video is the same as saying “I have no argument.”

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    10 February 2017 at 11:42 am

                    By the looks of things pointing out that the US’ drone strikes have killed thousands more of innocent people while targeting only a few tens of people wouldn’t really make any difference to you. You simply seem to be trolling.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      10 February 2017 at 4:02 pm

                      The claim in dispute here is:

                      I would also note that drone strikes are typically much more precise than the bombing campaign by Russia in Syria.

                      Maybe somewhere in that video is evidence that drone strikes are in fact not more accurate than Russians dropping 1000-pounders from fast-moving aircraft, but it’s unlikely and I’m not wasting an hour finding out. Reason’s comment amounts to “Drone strikes are bad, m’kay?”, which is not really in dispute – if you want to accuse people of trolling, start there.

          • Poission 2.1.1.1.3
            9 February 2017 at 1:20 pm

            I would also note that drone strikes are typically much more precise than the bombing campaign by Russia in Syria.

            You have little information,other then supplied by the pr departments of AQ or ISIS inc.

            • Wayne 2.1.1.1.3.1
              10 February 2017 at 9:12 am

              Poission

              I follow this particular issue, so consider myself quite well informed.

              But even a small amount of knowledge would tell you that a drone strike, typically using a Hellfire missile with a 9 kg warhead is not going to have anything like the collateral effects of a 1000 kg bomb that is typically used by the Russians.

              These are unguided bombs dropped from manned aircraft travelling at 600 mph, hence the reason they utterly destroy multistory buildings and everyone in them.

              In contrast a drone strike travels at 150 mph, with lots of close up video and radar, making the targeting quite precise.

              As for Morrissey, if he/she thinks that ISIS is apparently a force for good (or at least the moral equivalent of the US, Europe and NZ), well I guess that is his/her view. On his/her argument ISIS should be able to legitimately target the NZ Parliament, since we are part of the anti ISIS coalition.

              • Morrissey …
                10 February 2017 at 5:29 pm

                As for Morrissey, if he/she thinks that ISIS is apparently a force for good (or at least the moral equivalent of the US, Europe and NZ), well I guess that is his/her view.

                Where have I ever even remotely suggested ISIS is a “force for good”? Is this kind of incendiary falsehood the sort of tactic you and your cronies indulged in when in caucus? It reminds me of the lies your former colleagues like Winston Peters used to try to destroy the reputation of Keith Locke.

                Considering that the United States and the United Kingdom have actively sponsored ISIS in Iraq, your attempts to pontificate about that come across as not only dishonest, but foolish in the extreme.

          • DoublePlusGood 2.1.1.1.4
            9 February 2017 at 3:45 pm

            It says everything about you that you care for what is legal, and what you can sell as being acceptably less bad than some other options and not what is the right thing to do.
            See, a decent person would have made the obvious call not to execute Jihadi John with a drone strike.

          • the pigman 2.1.1.1.5
            9 February 2017 at 7:37 pm

            “For instance the US and the UK could not have arrested “jihadi” john, the executioner, since he was deep inside ISIS territory. He was therefore targeted in a drone strike as the most effective means of stopping him.”

            Too right Wayne, remember the time the US delivered a hellfire missile to “jihadi” john, the executioner, and then ISIS stopped executing people?

            No?

            Could that be because a single person, identified on a couple of ISIS tapes and with a profile drummed up by the media, doesn’t actually affect ISIS’ campaign?

            *shakes head* And to think you were once the Defence Minister…

            • Wayne 2.1.1.1.5.1
              10 February 2017 at 9:24 am

              the pigman

              Well actually ISIS has largely stopped the lining up of people and cutting their heads off. At least in part that will be because they are being defeated, and the drone strikes have been an integral part of the strategy to take out the leaders and the key players of ISIS.

              As for my views as a former Defence Minister, has it occurred to you that successive Defence Ministers of the US, the UK and France have specially approved these strikes?

              All Defence Ministers of the anti ISIS coalition are on board with the strategy to defeat ISIS, and provide forces to back up the strategy. They have regular meetings every six months to endorse, and if necessary modify the strategy.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.6
            10 February 2017 at 11:49 am

            I know that you are opposed to drone attacks, but in a war against terrorists, how do you arrest people in places that do not have active governments in much of their territory.

            That would indicate that you shouldn’t be acting at all. You most especially shouldn’t be using terrorist tactics against innocent people which is what these drone strikes are.

            • Wayne 2.1.1.1.6.1
              10 February 2017 at 12:21 pm

              So Draco,

              Your approach would allow terrorists to set up training camps, train for missions and send people out without any intervention.

              Not surprisingly governments in the west, specifically US, UK, France which have the capabilities to counter these threats in these camps, do not see it your way.

              I was at a recent round table discussion where the Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO expressed the general view that NATO needed a joined up strategy to defeat extremist terrorism, mostly emanating from ISIS, but not just from them. He considered that an essential part of that strategy was using military force to defeat the terrorists in their safe havens.

              What would you do; just let ISIS run amok?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                10 February 2017 at 12:57 pm

                What would you do; just let ISIS run amok?

                I’d work with the governments that are there. Encouraging and supporting them to contain and remove the terrorist cells.

                Rather than using an act of war against a nation that hasn’t done anything to us and killing innocents.

                We are not and should not be the World Police.

                • Morrissey …
                  10 February 2017 at 5:42 pm

                  We are not and should not be the World Police.

                  The term “World Police” suggests at least a notional commitment to international law and justice. To describe the United States, with its blood-soaked history of destroying democratic governments and its support for the most fearsome dictatorships, from Indonesia through to pre-1979 Iran, as the “World Police” is beyond satire.

                  Please do not use that false analogy again.

                  Or maybe this is the sort of “world policing” you had in mind…..

                  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Bloody_Sunday-Alabama_police_attack.jpeg

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    11 February 2017 at 11:44 am

                    World Police

                    …and is a satire of big-budget action films and their associated clichés and stereotypes, with particular humorous emphasis on the global implications of the politics of the United States. The title is derived from domestic and international political criticisms that the foreign policy of the United States frequently and unilaterally tries to “police the world”.

                    • Morrissey …
                      11 February 2017 at 12:38 pm

                      If the U.S. was trying to “police the world” it would seek to uphold international law, not show utter contempt for it.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      11 February 2017 at 3:56 pm

                      /facepalm

                      Really?
                      You don’t know the meaning of the word satire?
                      You don’t realise that ‘unilaterally tries to “police the world'” means that the US tries to force the world to do what the US wants for its own selfish interests?

        • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.2
          9 February 2017 at 1:22 pm

          The courts don’t get to say “No” to a declaration of war, and why would any of the institutions that are a check on US executive power say “No” to drone strikes against religious fascists? The targets of the drone attacks are irregular combatants, so they don’t get a lot of protection from international law. There’d be a problem if the governments of the countries involved objected to the attacks, but they don’t and the reason usually is that those governments want the targeted religious fascists just as dead as the US wants them.

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.1
            9 February 2017 at 4:51 pm

            The targets of the drone attacks are irregular combatants, so they don’t get a lot of protection from international law.

            Those shepherds, wedding guests, doctors, nurses and various children, as well as goats, sheep, and countless wildlife killed by Obama’s drone strikes certainly are “irregular combatants”, in that they are nearly all unarmed and innocent.

            What makes you contend that these drone killings are sanctioned by international law?

            • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.2.1.1
              9 February 2017 at 8:56 pm

              Well, when you can come up with a way of fighting these guys that can be guaranteed not to kill any civilians, I’m sure the US government would love to hear from you. Until then, consider the fact that the British government killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians while fighting some more traditional fascists, and give some thanks that the world’s moved on since then.

              • Morrissey …
                9 February 2017 at 9:04 pm

                Well, when you can come up with a way of fighting these guys that can be guaranteed not to kill any civilians, I’m sure the US government would love to hear from you.

                Stop funding them, and stop arming them, and stop calling them “opposition forces” as if they are anything other than Al Qaeda and ISIS.

                It would be more appropriate to compare German fascism to the present-day United States, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey, rather than their victims.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  10 February 2017 at 7:22 am

                  So, you argue that the US is funding and arming Al Qaeda and Da’esh, while also committing the apparently-terrible crime of waging war against them. Even by your standards, the illogic of this claim is unusual.

                  Also: new heights of false equivalence there, with your claim that the US and UK governments are closer to fascism than are groups whose stated aim is to forcibly impose a nightmare totalitarian dictatorship on the world. That’s pretty special.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                10 February 2017 at 11:59 am

                Well, when you can come up with a way of fighting these guys that can be guaranteed not to kill any civilians, I’m sure the US government would love to hear from you.

                Sniper rifle works fine. One shot, one kill.

                Or they could identify the actual terrorist compounds and send in entire commando teams.

                They most definitely should not be using a method that pretty much guarantees that 90% of the kills will be innocents.

                Of course, both of those would be difficult and expensive and I’m pretty sure it’s the latter and just not giving a shit about killing innocents that’s mostly driving the use of drones and Hellfire missiles.

                • Wayne …
                  10 February 2017 at 12:25 pm

                  Draco

                  You have misread the item. It does not say that 90% of the victims are innocents, it says that in 90% of the operations innocent people are killed. For instance in a strike on a vehicle there may be a person in the vehicle who is not a terrorist.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    10 February 2017 at 12:37 pm

                    That doesn’t really make it any better and many of those drone strikes have killed many people at the same time with only one supposed terrorist being killed:

                    “Between January 2012 and February 2013,” The Intercept reported, “U.S. special operations airstrikes killed more than 200 people. Of those, only 35 were the intended targets. During one five-month period of the operation, according to the documents, nearly 90 percent of the people killed in airstrikes were not the intended targets.” That’s one campaign of many in just one country where drone killings happen.

                • McFlock …
                  10 February 2017 at 12:33 pm

                  Sniper rifles work fine in some situations. If you can covertly deploy your person into the area, get a good angle, the person you want to shoot comes outside, the day isn’t too windy, there are no guards or dogs in the area, it’s not raining, etc etc etc.

                  And they sent in a commando team this time – killed a whole bunch of people, including civilians, and it generally went pear shaped. And that’s assuming there’s more than a semantic difference between “terrorist compound” and “village that the person happens to live in and lots of households have guns”.

                  I don’t have a problem with the method. It’s actually pretty accurate and limited in the damage it causes. I have a problem with their targeting policy, but that’s another issue entirely.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    10 February 2017 at 12:52 pm

                    Sniper rifles work fine in some situations. If you can covertly deploy your person into the area, get a good angle, the person you want to shoot comes outside, the day isn’t too windy, there are no guards or dogs in the area, it’s not raining, etc etc etc.

                    Getting the sniper in and out again is certainly the big problem there.

                    And that’s assuming there’s more than a semantic difference between “terrorist compound” and “village that the person happens to live in and lots of households have guns”.

                    They say that they can identify these compounds with satellite imagery.

                    If it’s going pear shaped then it’s probably due to bad planning and underestimating the strength of the compound.

                    I don’t have a problem with the method.

                    I’d have less trouble with the method if it killed less innocents than terrorists and the governments using it didn’t then lie about those that they had killed.

                    • McFlock …
                      10 February 2017 at 12:59 pm

                      Some compounds can be identified via satellite. But the very nature of asymmetric warfare is a lack of precise identification.

                      If civilians are killed by a drone and the terrorists aren’t, then that’s a planning and targeting issue, too.

                      a 20lb hellfire is a shedload better than the 500lb bomb they dropped on Zarqawi. Don’t confuse the method with the targeting.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  10 February 2017 at 1:25 pm

                  They most definitely should not be using a method that pretty much guarantees that 90% of the kills will be innocents.

                  There are lies, damned lies and statistics. If you conduct three strikes and the first two kill one targeted combatant apiece while the third one hits a family gathering and kills 18 people, you can say that 90 percent of the casualties were civilians but that doesn’t tell us anything useful about the merits or otherwise of the programme.

                  The sniper idea is strictly for action movies, and the commandos one was just carried out by Trump and proved to be worse than the drone strikes.

                  • McFlock …
                    10 February 2017 at 4:12 pm

                    Dunno about “strictly” for action movies, but definitely for narrow criteria.

                    There was a Syrian general shot by the Israelis, for example.

                    But a clearer example was after the Beruit baracks bombing – the yanks really wanted to make it expensive for the most likely suspects. One intelligence organisation suggested simply firing a bullet through the receiver arrays of a couple of rather expensive air search radars that were keeping the Israelis at bay. Plausible deniability, and would put massive strain on the alliance with the folks who supplied it to people who evidently couldn’t even provide an effective security perimeter.

                    I mean, they eventually went with a bombing campaign because yanks, but I always quite liked the elegance of that idea. Huge strategic damage inflicted for the cost of a bullet.

  3. Morrissey 3
    9 February 2017 at 9:03 am

    People who care about the quality and morality of political candidates of course rejected Hillary Clinton. To suggest that means her opponents were Trump supporters is beyond satire.

    This opinion piece is simply nonsense.

    • TheExtremist 3.1
      9 February 2017 at 9:07 am

      It works both ways – people who were anti-Trump, like myself, were frequently bashed as being Clinton supporters

      • Morrissey 3.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 9:09 am

        It depends, my friend. If you, like some on this forum, recycled the Clinton campaign’s desperate lies about Russian manipulation of the election, then you were, without a doubt, a Clinton supporter, albeit unwittingly so.

        I presume you were smarter than that, however.

    • McFlock 3.2
      9 February 2017 at 1:36 pm

      in a two-party race, if you hold back one contender then you have to take responsibility for the other one winning.

    • weka 3.4
      9 February 2017 at 2:10 pm

      People who care about the quality and morality of political candidates of course rejected Hillary Clinton. To suggest that means her opponents were Trump supporters is beyond satire.

      This opinion piece is simply nonsense.

      You really haven’t been paying attention Morrissey. I know people in RL who rejected Clinton on the basis of morality and quality and who supported Tr*mp. I also saw plenty of people on TS in the past year saying the same. This doesn’t mean that all people who reject Clinton are pro-Tr*mp, but it’s an idiocy to say that no Clinton opponents were Tr*mp supporters.

      There are left-wing people who support Tr*mp. Time to wake up on that one.

      • Morrissey 3.4.1
        9 February 2017 at 4:45 pm

        There are left-wing people who support Tr*mp.

        Could you name just ONE please? I’m really intrigued by this one.

        • weka 3.4.1.1
          9 February 2017 at 4:50 pm

          I’m not going to name the people I know in RL obviously. Do you not believe me?

          • Morrissey 3.4.1.1.1
            9 February 2017 at 4:53 pm

            No left wing people support Trump. You’ve made an incredibly contentious statement, and you need to back it up.

            • weka 3.4.1.1.1.1
              9 February 2017 at 4:56 pm

              How could I do that?

              • Morrissey …
                9 February 2017 at 4:58 pm

                By telling us the name of ONE left wing person—i.e., someone who is tolerant, liberal, well read and who believes in social justice—who supports Donald Trump.

                I cannot think of one. Can you?

                • weka …
                  9 February 2017 at 5:00 pm

                  My friends Bob and Tony.

                  Edit, although to be fair they might not be supporting him any more, but that’s recent.

                  • Morrissey …
                    9 February 2017 at 5:01 pm

                    They’re not left wingers then.

                    • Peter Swift …
                      9 February 2017 at 5:26 pm

                      Weka says they are, and as they’re her friends, that should be proof enough and the end of it.
                      Thin ice to imply a moderator is a liar.

                    • weka …
                      9 February 2017 at 5:26 pm

                      Just so I’ve got this right, you claim to know the beliefs and actions of all left wingers, and then when someone says hang-on, I know LWers who don’t think/act like that, you say that they’re not really LWers then, because they don’t agree with you, even though they fit the definition of LW you’ve just given?

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      10 February 2017 at 7:08 am

                      They’re not left wingers then.

                      Today’s logical fallacy is called “No true Scotsman.”

            • swordfish 3.4.1.1.1.2
              9 February 2017 at 8:28 pm

              For me the “incredibly contentious” argument from weka is

              ___________________________________________________________________________

              I also saw plenty of people on TS in the past year saying the same.

              (ie Lefties who not only rejected Clinton but positively supported Tr*mp)
              ___________________________________________________________________________

              Care to name and link. weka ?

              I’m scratching my head to think of more than 1 Left-leaner who advocated voting Trump. And even CV explicitly qualified his support on several occasions.

              So I’m intrigued to know precisely who these people are and to see the evidence that apparently damns them.

              • Morrissey …
                9 February 2017 at 8:53 pm

                There’s no doubt a select club of these “left leaning Trump supporters.” I suspect it’s about as big as the following clubs: Mexican Trump supporters, Feminist Trump supporters, Black Panthers Who Support Trump, Beauty Queens for Trump, Disabled Reporters for Trump and People in Bill and Hillary Clinton’s Immediate Family Who Support Trump.

                • swordfish …
                  9 February 2017 at 10:10 pm

                  Yeah, weka appears to have deduced a bit of an incipient conspiracy developing … one where a whole lot of white heterosexual male kiwi Lefties (apparently holding deeply conservative views on both women and various moral issues) have become emboldened by their intellectual Gurus – Don “The Donald” Trump, Christopher “”The Trotsky” Trotter – along it seems with various doyens of the alt-Right – to unmask and vigorously pursue their true (presumably hitherto secret ?) retrograde agenda …

                  From weka over recent days

                  But the anti-IP stuff that is coming up not just with him but with others, that’s lefties taking their memes not just from the like of Trotter but from the alt-right. I find it concerning and it does look to me like these are predominantly white men who are emboldened by the US election result.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-07022017/#comment-1297046

                  That’s what the whole anti-IP is starting to look like. The false framing of what IP is, and the push from lefties who also support Tr*mp.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-07022017/#comment-1297062

                  That alone is enough to make me have less than zero respect for people running pro-Tr*mp/anti-IP lines. They either don’t believe there is a risk, which makes them fools, or they do but they think the risk is worth it to make gains in their political agenda. There is vindictiveness there too, even outside of the US stuff. I think in NZ there are lefties emboldened by Tr*mp’s victory and the nasty just raised a notch.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/the-dynamic-of-vindictive-winners/#comment-1297621

                • Brutus Iscariot …
                  10 February 2017 at 4:10 pm

                  Trump won around 30% of the Hispanic vote, actually.

                  • Morrissey …
                    10 February 2017 at 5:17 pm

                    Thanks Brutus. What I meant to write was Mexican Trump supporters with an I.Q. above room temperature.

  4. esoteric pineapples 4
    9 February 2017 at 9:13 am

    “Some of Trump’s supporters – both left and right – flocked to Trump because they were tired of the failed strategy of presumptive U.S. hegemony, and were worried that Hillary were going to repeat those same mistakes. They aren’t getting the fresh, restrained approach they were hoping for.”

    And yet nearly all the 10 to 12 left and right wing Trump supporters I personally know continue to support him and I know they will continue to do so. It’s best to approach them with a certain level of cynicism.

  5. Adrian Thornton 5
    9 February 2017 at 11:25 am

    Again with this bullshit narrative, what a bizarre and deludedly blind piece of non analysis, how about this, how about focusing your attention to the still dysfunctional and rotten neo liberal co opted ‘Left’ that IS the reason why Trump exists today? …

    No, until the Left cuts the cancer of the free market neo liberal economic ideology from it’s dying body, there will be no long term answers to the rise of the extreme right in the west…. as the DNC has made plainly clear their fundamental ideology is now far more closely aligned to the Republicans than to a progressive Sanders type Democratic Socialism, and as it is pretty obvious that neo liberalism has hit the wall, we either fight to get our Left back again, or…..?

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1
      9 February 2017 at 12:03 pm

      It’s not just neo-liberalism that’s hit the wall – it’s capitalism. We’ve tried it every possible way over the last 5000+ years and it’s always failed. It’s always destroyed the society that it arises in as it destroys the environment that the society depends upon.

      And it’s sole purpose is to make a few people rich at everyone else’s expense.

      We really shouldn’t be surprised that it’s failed again and that it’s now going into it’s massively oppressive end game as it tries to prevent its own collapse.

      • Adrian Thornton 5.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 12:52 pm

        I agree, when I say the neo liberal free market economic ideology, I mean by extension capitalism, and capitalist ideology.

        Watching capitalism fight this rear guard action, especially over the last 12 months has been quite an experience I must say, and having all MSM basically drop any pretext of being unbiased in it’s defense of the status quo, at least leaves us knowing exactly where the battle lines lay…although why many on the Left seem to still trust The Guardian etc are for reasons I can’t fathom?

  7. Barfly 7
    9 February 2017 at 11:49 am

    Yeah Trump’s a lunatic .What a pity the neo-liberal clowns of the DNC worked so hard to screw Bernie Sanders – yet it seem the author places no responsibility on them for the Trump presidency. Is this post just a dig at Colonial Viper?

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    9 February 2017 at 11:49 am

    Inside days, U.S. enemies have been handed powerful new arguments with which to embarrass, delegitimise, and undermine America’s image and reputation.

    Just need the first 15 seconds – but the rest is pretty good too 😈

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RTIKySfheg

  9. Redbaiter 9
    9 February 2017 at 1:31 pm

    As other commenters have pointed out above, Trump is only POTUS because Clinton supporters cheated Bernie Sanders out of the Democrat nomination.

    I actually had a bet that Sanders would be the President.

    I lost, because I failed to fully factor in Clinton’s crookedness and her faction’s tight control over the Democrat Party.

    So a more honest nomination process within the Democrats would probably have seen Bernie win the election.

    Whether you like Trump or not, its pretty clear that feminists and their sympathisers pushing the crooked Clinton nomination are the reason he is now POTUS.

    • McFlock 9.1
      9 February 2017 at 1:40 pm

      lol

      and a more honest electoral process would have seen Clinton as president. But sadly her camp failed to fully factor in the level of lies and duplicity that even supposedly leftist people would stoop to, let alone the alt-fact crowd.

      • Redbaiter 9.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 1:56 pm

        Bernie would have gone to Michigan.

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1
          9 February 2017 at 1:59 pm

          Clinton wouldn’t have needed to. See how this works?

          • Redbaiter 9.1.1.1.1
            9 February 2017 at 2:06 pm

            Clinton didn’t go to Michigan because it was more about identity politics (& feminism) with her than it was about the US working man.

            Democrats do not just need to know that many of their party switched their vote to Trump, they have to understand why.

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.1
              9 February 2017 at 2:14 pm

              Really? If it was about the “working man”, why were there so many arguments about cheese pizza?

              • Redbaiter …
                9 February 2017 at 2:19 pm

                You’d need to ask Michael Moore about that.

                • McFlock …
                  9 February 2017 at 2:29 pm

                  Ok, if it was about the “working man”, why the obsession with email servers?

                  • Redbaiter …
                    9 February 2017 at 2:49 pm

                    For the working man, it wasn’t about email servers.

                    That’s beltway stuff, and it doesn’t resonate that much with the bulk of mainstream voters. IMHO.

                    As well, men wanted their jobs back before they cared about a woman president.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 February 2017 at 2:56 pm

                      And yet you yourself referred to Clinton’s “crookedness” in comment 9.

                      If it was just about jobs, that little foxnews leitmotif wouldn’t have trickled down into a NZ blogsite…

            • red-blooded 9.1.1.1.1.2
              9 February 2017 at 10:59 pm

              Hey, Redbaiter, plenty of workers, here and in the US, are NOT men! And, BTW, there’s nothing wrong with wanting young US girls to grow up knowing that they (and not just their brothers) can become president.

      • DoublePlusGood 9.1.2
        9 February 2017 at 5:03 pm

        A competent electoral system would have seen a Social Democrat (Bernie-led) – Democrat (Clinton) coalition government…

        • McFlock 9.1.2.1
          9 February 2017 at 5:12 pm

          Anyone other than trump, really.
          And three to five main parties in the houses.

          • DoublePlusGood 9.1.2.1.1
            10 February 2017 at 1:43 pm

            Well, Trump would still have been leader of the opposition – for precisely one day before someone rolled him in the first caucus meeting of the Republicans.

        • Brutus Iscariot 9.1.2.2
          10 February 2017 at 4:14 pm

          Stop imposing your judgements about US political culture! Who are you to criticise their electoral system, that is the product of hundreds of years of history and aligns with the way their society is organised traditionally along state/local lines.

          Bigoted quite frankly.

  10. Redbaiter 10
    9 February 2017 at 3:37 pm

    A CNN poll taken in Feb 2016, long before any news of Clinton’s email server, showed Bernie was far more likely of success against Trump than Clinton.

    60% of registered voters viewed Bernie positively, 33% negatively.

    Only 44% viewed Clinton positively, 53% negatively.

    Bernie had a 55% to 43% favourability rating over Trump.

    Clinton had a 52% to 44% favourability rating over Trump.

    The crooked Clinton faction screwed Bernie out of the nomination, and in doing so screwed the Democrat party out of the Presidency.

    Its why Debbie Wasserman Schultz their National Committee Chairwoman, resigned/ was fired.

    You can read about it here, and its not FOX News.

    http://usuncut.com/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-hillary-clinton/

    • McFlock 10.1
      9 February 2017 at 3:48 pm

      lol
      But you’re a “working man” who doesn’t care about emails? Sanders wasn’t screwed out of the nomination. The DNC just said mean things behind his back.

      Sanders lost the popular vote as well as the delegate vote.

      • adam 10.1.1
        9 February 2017 at 5:19 pm

        Yeah, but the DNC looks iffy. Even more so after what happened in Arizona and Puerto Rico. We do know they set the vote up with the red states first to give h.r.c a good lead. Plus, that the DNC also ran hard with the whole super delegate thing.

        Also why did a no name, from no where, almost beat her?

        So at the end of the day, what is politics if not perceptions? And if the DNC had half a brain between them, they must have know that was the Achilles heel of h.r.c – the public perception of her.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          9 February 2017 at 5:27 pm

          What happened in Arizona?
          Who’s the noname?

          The interesting question is what bullshit would have been thrown at sanders had he won the primaries. Cheese pizza, anyone?

          • adam 10.1.1.1.1
            9 February 2017 at 5:37 pm

            No name is sanders.

            The election itself in Arizona, or did you miss that debacle?

            Does not matter really, sanders lost.

            My point is about perceptions, the DNC made a hash of it and looked bad – not arguing if any truth in that – just arguing the whole perception was they ‘looked bad’ and h.r.c looked bad with them.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.1
              9 February 2017 at 5:49 pm

              Sanders was not a “no name from no where” by any means.

              I don’t recall a particular debacle, but people have made up so much shit over the past year that who knows what the hell you’re talking about.

              Perceptions are funny things. You say the DNC/HRC looked bad. Fair enough, with all the shit thrown at them by many different players. But shit was thrown at them not because of who they were, but because of who they were running against.

              I reckon that if sanders had won the nomination, we’d be having pretty much the same discussion as we are now but with the names reversed.

              • adam …
                9 February 2017 at 6:53 pm

                Are you being obtuse McFLock?

                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/riley-waggaman/its-not-just-arizona-elec_b_9550670.html

                http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/

                http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/22/live-arizona-primary-coverage-presidential-preference-election/82096726/

                http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/arizona-primary-long-lines-voting-restriction

                So your saying h.r.c had no baggage? That the DNC was pure? That trump and the republicans were winners and would have won? That dirty politics was a winner!!?!?

                The DNC knew the problems but ran with them. They know as well as you do perceptions count. They also knew how the electoral colleges work, they also knew they should have reached out to sanders supporters (here they did not – so only have themselves to blame). All epic failures, which can squarely be laid at the feet of the DNC, nearly all 1000 of them.

                • McFlock …
                  9 February 2017 at 7:21 pm

                  Nope, not obtuse.

                  Just wondering why republicans continuing their 20 year disenfranchisement drive is the fault of the Democrats who are subject to those systems.

                  Also, complaining that provisional results were called early is stupid. Provisional results are just that: fast, but able to be overturned when everything’s been counted and appealed.

                  But nice straw man – I’m not saying Clinton is pure. I’m saying that her “impurity” pales into comparison to the avalanche of utter bullshit that was thrown by both republicans and petulant sanderistas.

                  I’m saying that the Clinton Foundation is legitimate, that emails about pizza and handkerchiefs were most likely about just that, and if those two things alone are factual then they republicans would have targetted Sanders with similar allegations.

                  • adam …
                    11 February 2017 at 11:52 am

                    There perception – I just said things and you responded.None of the questions I proposed are real, or an extreme character to prove a point. Which is about perception.

                    I put them to show you how perception works. Now do that for 20 years to a individual and what do you have? h.r.c, now who cares if what she is involved with is clean, she is already done because of perception.

                    Don’t blame sanders supporters, tired and misses the point. Also it is the usual blame game that the DNC plays, blame everyone else but themselves.

                    I get sanders would have been targeted, but he at least did not have 20 years of negative perceptions built around him. And yes I agree the right are scum bags for the continued attacks on civil rights. But you have to admit, taking corporate money, and running on a ticket of conservatism, is not a winner for any left wing party.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 February 2017 at 9:02 pm

                      And yet she still won more votes than sanders in the primaries, and more votes than trump in the presidential election.

                      If you weren’t so far up your own arse trying to be smart, you’d realise that eventually perception answers to fact.

                    • adam …
                      11 February 2017 at 10:36 pm

                      She knew the electoral system before she went to the polls. She also lost. Perceptions do catch up with facts.

                      Why are you finding it so hard to accept she lost? Why are you blaming other people, rather than looking at her as another example of a neo-con loser?

                    • McFlock …
                      12 February 2017 at 12:04 am

                      And Sanders knew the electoral system for the primaries.

                      Hey, she could have run a better campaign. Maybe she should have just told trump to grow the fuck up during the debates.

                      But to pretend that partisan emails leaks and announcements of reopened investigations a week out of the election had nothing to do with the election result is just fucking stupid.

                      And no, the emails said fuck all. So the DNC didn’t like sanders: waaaa. That didn’t screw the primaries. The primaries were run by the states, not the DNC. Pizzagate was just bullshit. The Clinton Foundation is still going strong. All of this bullshit played much more against Clinton in the election than choosing to do more tv ads than appearances in some states. And yes, much of that bullshit was recycled by sanders supporters who live on complete denial that the fuckers would have made as much up about Sanders if he had won the primary.

                      Here’s news for you: JC was nailed to a cross for providing food, healthcare and saying people should be nice to each other. Sanders would have faced a similar fate after the altright was done with him as a presidential candidate.

                    • adam …
                      12 February 2017 at 7:49 am

                      You know I’m not a sanders supporter, right?

                      I get they played hard ball, but the fact remains, h.r.c and the DNC ran a bad campaign, and lost. LOST, and rather than blame sanders people, maybe they should have reached out to them. If you have a look on USA forums, they still blame sanders people.

                      They lost because the candidate was bad to begin with, they lost because they did not reach out to progressives, they lost because they were arrogant. So forget all the pizza, foundation stuff etc, because quite frankly that was bugger all votes. They lost, because they were dumb about it, and were corporate through and through, you know if you going to be the progressives, then act like it – rather than look like more of the same b.s people have suffered through the last 35 years. The DNC and h.r.c did nothing, absolutely nothing, to dispel the perceptions of her being a corporate elect.

                      I know it’s simpler to blame other people, rather than confront the fact that h.r.c was actually quite a shitty candidate – the proof, she lost to a despicable candidate. What more proof do you need?

                      I’m not arguing for woulda, coulda, shoulda’s I’m just arguing that the DNC should have engaged their brain for 1 second and released that h.r.c was a bad choice. And maybe people who think of them selves as progressive or enlightened or what ever need, to realised she was a bad choice as well.

                      And reaching for she won for the popular vote, is just denial. Blaming sanders people, is just denial. It’s been months, time to accept the fact she was a bad candidate, and lost, because she was such a bad candidate.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 February 2017 at 12:04 pm

                      Yeah right. The main focii of the main news channel, a social media campaign and her opponent’s speeches were “bugger all votes”.

  11. adam 11
    9 February 2017 at 5:30 pm

    I don’t think a simple duelist approach to this argument helps much Ad. In that I disliked h.r.c and did not want her to be president, and I also loathed trump and did not want him to be president. I get we use opposites to help us describe the world, but in this case I don’t think it is helpful. Plus I think you missing the abject disgust with the whole neo-liberal experiment. No one knew how bad trump would be, but they had a good guess how bad h.r.c. would be – because more of the same, means more of the same heartbreak. How ironic is it that the Democrat’s are the true conservatives?

    • North 11.1
      9 February 2017 at 8:36 pm

      How earnestly and beautifully measured of you Adam. Well done ! Neither you nor I got any fucking idea what this moron could land us in…….but let’s have a little think about the article written by the Google engineer about the coup from the top down. Sorry, can’t find the link but someone will have it.

      In 20 days…….the judiciary firmly in the sights of this spoilt, unhinged child. “Oh let’s not be ‘duelist’ ” you say.

      Risible. And gutless.

      • adam 11.1.1
        11 February 2017 at 11:42 am

        What are you talking about ‘google engineer’???

        Risible and gutless, show me your scars from actually fighting neo-nazi scumbags, do you have any? Ever helped a family after they been firebombed by racist scum bags? Ever been beaten by police? Ever won a industrial dispute with your blood?

        Just another keyboard warrior – pointless.

        Piss off north, incoherent, lacking judgement and dull. Come back when you actually have your spin sorted, and somthing useful to day.

        Because it’s not black and white, and it’s not that simple. But if you want to just be abusive, go find someone else to play with.

        • adam 11.1.2.1
          11 February 2017 at 12:06 pm

          Either work out how to oppose it. Which is inclusive.

          Or end up in a merry go round of the blame game and incoherence. Because as it stands north’s argument is still incoherent, abusive and exclusive.

  12. Andre 12
    9 February 2017 at 5:42 pm

    The post was entirely about whether Trump was living up to what his supporters were hoping for from him, particularly those with strong objections to Clinton’s likely foreign policy. It barely mentioned Clinton. Yet quite a few commenters ignore what’s in the post in their rush to vent their Hillary-hate.

  13. reason 13
    9 February 2017 at 8:00 pm

    Does the fact that Trump was in charge of a death squad ( jsoc ), which killed a 8 year old girl …………… make him twice as bad as Obama ???

    …… who killed a 16 year old boy when he was in charger of the death squad ( this boy was the older brother of the girl)

    The next logical step in the evolution of presidential kill lists …… will be operations on home ( u.s.a ) soil.

    And while it may be sad for them …………… others will see it as chickens coming home to roost.

    War criminals have impunity in the u.s.a …..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN4Sn5u_pK0

  14. North 14
    9 February 2017 at 8:22 pm

    Where are you, Ivanka Colonial Viper Darling ? Dying to hear you rationalise the POTUS Twitter account being utilised to take veangence on the Nordstrom retail chain. For slighting ‘The Princess’ whom her daddy would be dating but for his being her daddy. FFS ! Enjoy your ‘victory’ CV. NZ’s supreme leftie you.

    • gsays 14.1
      10 February 2017 at 1:29 pm

      that is a cheap shot, north.

      although even in election year, the left will still save the worse it has for it’s own.

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    Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
    Open ParachuteBy Ken
    22 hours ago

  • Babies and benefits – no good news
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three.  ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    23 hours ago

  • Should the RBNZ be looking through climate inflation?
    Climate change is expected to generate more and more extreme events, delivering a sort of structural shock to inflation that central banks will have to react to as if they were short-term cyclical issues. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago

  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours, as of 9:16 am on Thursday, April 18 are:Housing: Tauranga residents living in boats, vans RNZ Checkpoint Louise TernouthHousing: Waikato councillor says wastewater plant issues could hold up Sleepyhead building a massive company town Waikato Times Stephen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    24 hours ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the public sector carnage, and misogyny as terrorism
    It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 day ago

  • Meeting the Master Baiters
    Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 day ago

  • How extreme was the Earth's temperature in 2023
    This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blog In 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
    Skeptical Science
    1 day ago

  • Backbone, revisited
    The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago

  • Ministers are not above the law
    Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • What’s the outfit you can hear going down the gurgler? Probably it’s David Parker’s Oceans Sec...
    Buzz from the Beehive Point  of Order first heard of the Oceans Secretariat in June 2021, when David Parker (remember him?) announced a multi-agency approach to protecting New Zealand’s marine ecosystems and fisheries. Parker (holding the Environment, and Oceans and Fisheries portfolios) broke the news at the annual Forest & ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago

  • Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Bryce Edwards writes  – Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Matt Doocey doubles down on trans “healthcare”
    Citizen Science writes –  Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • A TikTok Prime Minister.
    One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago

  • Texas Lessons
    This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 days ago

  • Bernard's pick 'n' mix of the news links at 6:06 am
    The top six news links I’ve seen elsewhere in the last 24 hours as of 6:06 am on Wednesday, April 17 are:Must read: Secrecy shrouds which projects might be fast-tracked RNZ Farah HancockScoop: Revealed: Luxon has seven staffers working on social media content - partly paid for by taxpayer Newshub ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Fighting poverty on the holiday highway
    Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago

  • Bernard's six-stack of substacks at 6:26 pm
    Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • At a glance – Is the science settled?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • Apposite Quotations.
    How Long Is Long Enough? Gaza under Israeli bombardment, July 2014. This posting is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    Bowalley Road
    3 days ago

  • What’s a life worth now?
    You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Howling at the Moon
    Karl du Fresne writes –  There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Newshub is Dead.
    I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • Seymour is chuffed about cutting early-learning red tape – but we hear, too, that Jones has loose...
    Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Will politicians let democracy die in the darkness?
    Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago

  • Was Hawkesby entirely wrong?
    David Farrar  writes –  The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • PRC shadow looms as the Solomons head for election
    PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time. A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Climate Change: Criminal ecocide
    We are in the middle of a climate crisis. Last year was (again) the hottest year on record. NOAA has just announced another global coral bleaching event. Floods are threatening UK food security. So naturally, Shane Jones wants to make it easier to mine coal: Resources Minister Shane Jones ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago

  • Is saving one minute of a politician's time worth nearly $1 billion?
    Is speeding up the trip to and from Wellington airport by 12 minutes worth spending up more than $10 billion? Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me in the last day to 8:26 am today are:The Lead: Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Long Tunnel or Long Con?
    Yesterday it was revealed that Transport Minister had asked Waka Kotahi to look at the options for a long tunnel through Wellington. State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    3 days ago

  • Smoke And Mirrors.
    You're a fraud, and you know itBut it's too good to throw it all awayAnyone would do the sameYou've got 'em goingAnd you're careful not to show itSometimes you even fool yourself a bitIt's like magicBut it's always been a smoke and mirrors gameAnyone would do the sameForty six billion ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • What is Mexico doing about climate change?
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The June general election in Mexico could mark a turning point in ensuring that the country’s climate policies better reflect the desire of its citizens to address the climate crisis, with both leading presidential candidates expressing support for renewable energy. Mexico is the ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • State of humanity, 2024
    2024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?When I say 2024 I really mean the state of humanity in 2024.Saturday night, we watched Civil War because that is one terrifying cliff we've ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Govt’s Wellington tunnel vision aims to ease the way to the airport (but zealous promoters of cycl...
    Buzz from the Beehive A pet project and governmental tunnel vision jump out from the latest batch of ministerial announcements. The government is keen to assure us of its concern for the wellbeing of our pets. It will be introducing pet bonds in a change to the Residential Tenancies Act ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • The case for cultural connectedness
    A recent report generated from a Growing Up in New Zealand (GUiNZ) survey of 1,224 rangatahi Māori aged 11-12 found: Cultural connectedness was associated with fewer depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms and better quality of life. That sounds cut and dry. But further into the report the following appears: Cultural connectedness is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Useful context on public sector job cuts
    David Farrar writes –    The Herald reports: From the gory details of job-cuts news, you’d think the public service was being eviscerated.   While the media’s view of the cuts is incomplete, it’s also true that departments have been leaking the particulars faster than a Wellington ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On When Racism Comes Disguised As Anti-racism
    Remember the good old days, back when New Zealand had a PM who could think and speak calmly and intelligently in whole sentences without blustering? Even while Iran’s drones and missiles were still being launched, Helen Clark was live on TVNZ expertly summing up the latest crisis in the Middle ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    4 days ago

  • Govt ignored economic analysis of smokefree reversal
    Costello did not pass on analysis of the benefits of the smokefree reforms to Cabinet, emphasising instead the extra tax revenues of repealing them. Photo: Hagen Hopkins, Getty Images TL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 7:26 am today are:The Lead: Casey Costello never passed on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • True Blue.
    True loveYou're the one I'm dreaming ofYour heart fits me like a gloveAnd I'm gonna be true blueBaby, I love youI’ve written about the job cuts in our news media last week. The impact on individuals, and the loss to Aotearoa of voices covering our news from different angles.That by ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • Who is running New Zealand’s foreign policy?
    While commentators, including former Prime Minister Helen Clark, are noting a subtle shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy, which now places more emphasis on the United States, many have missed a key element of the shift. What National said before the election is not what the government is doing now. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #15
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 7, 2024 thru Sat, April 13, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week is about adults in the room setting terms and conditions of ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Feline Friends and Fragile Fauna The Complexities of Cats in New Zealand’s Conservation Efforts

    Cats, with their independent spirit and beguiling purrs, have captured the hearts of humans for millennia. In New Zealand, felines are no exception, boasting the highest national cat ownership rate globally [definition cat nz cat foundation]. An estimated 1.134 million pet cats grace Kiwi households, compared to 683,000 dogs ...

    Gareth’s WorldBy admin
    5 days ago

  • Or is that just they want us to think?
    Nice guy, that Peter Williams. Amiable, a calm air of no-nonsense capability, a winning smile. Everything you look for in a TV presenter and newsreader.I used to see him sometimes when I went to TVNZ to be a talking head or a panellist and we would yarn. Nice guy, that ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Did global warming stop in 1998?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Did global warming stop in ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • Arguing over a moot point.
    I have been following recent debates in the corporate and social media about whether it is a good idea for NZ to join what is known as “AUKUS Pillar Two.” AUKUS is the Australian-UK-US nuclear submarine building agreement in which … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago

  • No Longer Trusted: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    Turning Point: “What has turned me away from the mainstream news media is the very strong message that its been sending out for the last few years.” “And what message might that be?” “That the people who own it, the people who run it, and the people who provide its content, really don’t ...
    Bowalley Road
    6 days ago

  • Mortgage rates at 10% anyone?
    No – nothing about that in PM Luxon’s nine-point plan to improve the lives of New Zealanders. But beyond our shores Jamie Dimon, the long-serving head of global bank J.P. Morgan Chase, reckons that the chances of a goldilocks soft landing for the economy are “a lot lower” than the ...
    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    6 days ago

  • Sad tales from the left
    Michael Bassett writes –  Have you noticed the odd way in which the media are handling the government’s crackdown on surplus employees in the Public Service? Very few reporters mention the crazy way in which State Service numbers rocketed ahead by more than 16,000 during Labour’s six years, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • In Whose Best Interests?
    On The Spot: The question Q+A host, Jack Tame, put to the Workplace & Safety Minister, Act’s Brooke van Velden, was disarmingly simple: “Are income tax cuts right now in the best interests of lowering inflation?”JACK TAME has tested another MP on his Sunday morning current affairs show, Q+A. Minister for Workplace ...
    Bowalley Road
    6 days ago

  • Don’t Question, Don’t Complain.
    It has to start somewhereIt has to start sometimeWhat better place than here?What better time than now?So it turns out that I owe you all an apology.It seems that all of the terrible things this government is doing, impacting the lives of many, aren’t necessarily ‘bad’ per se. Those things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • Auckland faces 25% water inflation shock
    Three Waters became a focus of anti-Government protests under Labour, but its dumping by the new Government hasn’t solved councils’ funding problems and will eventually hit the back pockets of everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The six news items that stood out to me at 8:06 am today are:The Government ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • Small accomplishments and large ironies
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • The Song of Saqua: Volume VII
    In order to catch up to the actual progress of the D&D campaign, I present you with another couple of sessions. These were actually held back to back, on a Monday and Tuesday evening. Session XV Alas, Goatslayer had another lycanthropic transformation… though this time, he ran off into the ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    6 days ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
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