Salvation Army: welfare proposals ‘defining moment’

26 comments on “Salvation Army: welfare proposals ‘defining moment’ ”

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1. Tiger Mountain 1

   21 February 2011 at 12:04 pm

   The sallies are correct, the welfare ‘reforms’ will officially define a moment when once and for all the tories turned their backs on nearly one third of the population. A virtual declaration of war on the most vulnerable new zealanders.

   Tomorrows release of the Rebstock report will also define the start of Keys election year “turbocharged” bash the dirty filthy benes onslaught, to assist his re-election.
   • the pyschology and message to the 75% of new zealanders who give or take a dollar or two, are worse off since 2008 is: if you are doing it hard put the boot into those doing it harder.
   • the jobs are not there, but it does not matter, the Natz spinners just need you to scapegoat and vote for them.
   Revolting stuff, please don’t just leave it to the usual unemployed networks to protest, get involved, it could be you some time soon that is driven half crazy by WINZ/MSD as you sink into the underclass.
2. Robert Winter 2

   21 February 2011 at 12:15 pm

   Campbell Roberts, and his team, are, in Social Policy and especially Housing terms, a constant force for good. They took Labour to task quite properly in the three terms of Labour-led power. They are equally tough on the current government. We need more of this type of informed, engaged commentary.
3. Colonial Viper 3

   21 February 2011 at 12:16 pm

   From the front of the report. Listen up Labour. National have no problem introducing radical change to benefit the wealthy. Now we need radical change to benefit the poor, the working class, the middle class.

   There has been nothing bold in the Government’s political agenda despite any rhetoric which would have us think otherwise. In hindsight there was nothing bold in the last Government’s agenda either—simply a seriesof programmes which dealt pragmatically with the problems of the day without really ever addressing the underlying causes of these problems. The failure of the Labour-­led
   Governmets of 1999 to 2008 to deal with the housing bubble is a case in point.
4. SPC 4

   21 February 2011 at 12:25 pm

   It’s interesting that the report explicitly excluded focus on the rate of benefit but

   1. there is the suggestion of lower rates after the first year (when historically there has been a higher rate on longer term benefits because the base benefit for the dole is set at a temporary subsistence level – and this was all prior to the 91 cut-backs).
   2. there are costs to be met to comply with work-testing that reduce the amount of discretionary money available. Such as cost of application – letters etc/CV preparation etc/using library email if one does not have a home PC/compliance visits to W and I/and the most expensive of all travel to interviews – apparently W and I tell people to visit workplaces to cold call completely unaware people do not have any money to afford this.

   We are apparantly going to see people with children having less money to feed their children (or pay power bills etc) because of their work test costs – and then after a year of that then having their benefit reduced if they are still on a benefit they have to look for work while they have even less money left over to support their children.

   One thing about it all that I suspect that the government has not factored in – Treasury forecasts of unemployment falling to 6% this year and 5% next can no longer be accurate. Because if someone is work-tested they are then categorised as unemployed. That means we will jump up the international ladder and give the government the notoriety it deserves.

   The irony of it is that this will cost the government extra and benficiaries will be worse off – and child poverty will incrrease. It reminds me of 90’s work for the dole – but on a grander scale.

   In the USA they now use debt cards in place of food stamps and some propose that these be coloured orange (prison uniform colour) – so one can more easily appreciate the ghetto language and symbolism. The old term for it was poor laws.

   The point is to make those in work pathetically grateful and feel that they are of a separate and included in the system group – fearful and compliant for having it so good – but only in a relative sense. A brave new world market where no one dares to get left behind or else.
   • Vicky32 4.1

     21 February 2011 at 7:09 pm

     “In the USA they now use debt cards in place of food stamps and some propose that these be coloured orange (prison uniform colour) – so one can more easily appreciate the ghetto language and symbolism. The old term for it was poor laws.”
     Oh, for heaven’s sake! Unbelievable… I can see that it would be popular here, sadly.
     Deb
5. Draco T Bastard 5

   21 February 2011 at 12:42 pm

   Greens: Save On Welfare Without Harsh Cuts

   “The minimum wage is so low that often people working full-time on it still need welfare support to make ends meet,” Green Party Work and Income Spokesperson Catherine Delahunty said

   If you pay people enough then they don’t need government welfare. Simple really and yet the political-right just don’t seem to understand that and actually want to lower wages.
6. billy fish 6

   21 February 2011 at 12:53 pm

   I am picking that the NACT governments response to Social Welfare issues will be an exact copy of the UK Governments responses.
   There are so many similarities of message and “substance” that one would almost think the policy is coming from the same source.
   Plus the U turns on unpopular but disposable policy is scarily similar
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     21 February 2011 at 1:04 pm

     Well Labour NZ should be in frequent contact with Labour UK and the Fabians then 🙂
   • Draco T Bastard 6.2

     21 February 2011 at 1:44 pm

     There are so many similarities of message and “substance” that one would almost think the policy is coming from the same source.

     It probably is.
     • Bunji 6.2.1

       21 February 2011 at 1:57 pm

       Conservatives & National are both Crosby|Textor clients…
       • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1

         21 February 2011 at 1:59 pm

         LOL…C|T are probably just retitling the powerpoints they do for one crowd, doing a few ‘find and replace’ searches and charging the second crowd for it as well. Perfect.
   • Jum 6.3

     22 February 2011 at 12:18 am

     You’ll be wanting to check out Lord Ashcroft’s profile then, lad, and his conservative group’s plan to control all countries.

     He is an adviser of Cameron’s. In fact, didn’t he get a plum job in the new government? He travelled here to advise JKeyll just before the 2008 election. He travels the world advising conservative parties, whether in government or not to plot the takeover of governments and the sovereignty of citizens.

     Want to know something really scary? Pictures of Cameron and wife/Key and wife – scarily similar in face, dress colour and style. Sends a chill down the back; nobody seems to have noticed there are clones in Parliament…
7. joe90 7

   21 February 2011 at 1:06 pm

   Once upon a time I gave generously to the sallies but then they outed themselves…. as bigots wrapped up as caring Christians.
   • ianmac 7.1

     21 February 2011 at 2:08 pm

     Yes. At the time I was a bit pipped about their stance but then on balance they do get stuck in, get their hands dirty even if under the cloak of Religion. So they once again my favourite National charity.
   • Vicky32 7.2

     21 February 2011 at 7:12 pm

     Sorry, that’s just juvenile, to put your sex life before other peoples’ needs.
     Deb
     • The Voice of Reason 7.2.1

       21 February 2011 at 7:28 pm

       You appear to assume that Joe90 and/or Ianmac are gay, Deb. That sort of trivialises a significantly popular movement toward equality and fairness in NZ. I’m not gay, which is a matter of chance, but I marched up the appropriately named Queen St back in the eighties to get some semblance of balance into our laws. I stopped giving to the Salvo’s at the same time, after they attacked the reform bill as being the work of the devil (I paraphrase).

       The Salvation Army do good work. Their spokesperson is on the money regarding poverty. But the last time I looked they were still old testament bigots when it came to sexuality.
       • Vicky32 7.2.1.1

         21 February 2011 at 7:36 pm

         “But the last time I looked they were still old testament bigots when it came to sexuality.”
         By your standards, so am I! (An ‘Old-Testament bigot’…) It’s interesting that many of the people who get angriest about the condemnation of gayness in the OT, the people who like to pretend that rules about mixed fabrics are somehow relevant, and that the OT is as binding on Christians as the NT is, don’t know that the NT is no happier with gaiety than the old!
         So, by you, it’s okay to condemn people who help others, not because they harm gays or even want to, but because they don’t whole-heartedly approve and applaud?
         Those who say “I’ll never give even 20c to help the poor if it goes to a church” are the bigots, not us.
         Deb (in sorrow and disappointment.)
         • The Voice of Reason 7.2.1.1.1

           21 February 2011 at 8:02 pm

           Well, thanks for clearing that up for me, Deb! It’s comforting to know the happy clappy NT is just as biased as the OT. I don’t usually condemn religious bigots, per se, I just don’t give them my money because I know it goes, at least in part, to promoting their delusions of moral superiority. Because there is no god, all churches are led by liars and followed by fools.

           I thought I was quite generous in my assessment of the good work the Salvation Army does, but that’s as far as it goes. And the little good work individuals church members do cannot diminish the greater acts of evil that organised religions have bought to the world, usually in god’s name, but actually for the profit of the minority in control.

           Still, I do quite like the Xmas break, so we’ll be keeping that after the revolution.
           • Jum 7.2.1.1.1.1

             22 February 2011 at 12:33 am

             Captcha: Informations

             No, The Voice of Reason, In the beginning there was a God and she was woman until the Christians came along, pinched the pagan rites by calling them something else and closed down all the sacred centres for worshipping the God of woman and they’ve been trying to destroy womankind ever since. So after the revolution, we’ll get back to worshipping our woman God.
       • joe90 7.2.1.2

         21 February 2011 at 7:54 pm

         Not gay and TVR has hit the nail on the head, old testament bigots with an interest in some else’s bedroom proclivities.
8. Jum 8

   22 February 2011 at 12:27 am

   I used to donate to the Sally Army until I saw a huge back of their magazine advertisement for the Promisekeepers, yet another religious extreme right American invention, that promised to be good men and husbands as long as their wives stopped wanting to be treated as equal human beings.

   They have huge rallies in Auckland annually when all these men, who can’t handle independent thinking women, congregate to learn ways of controlling their women – sick as.

   I still visit their shops so give money, but not in larger cash donations anymore.
9. randal 9

   22 February 2011 at 11:33 am

   dont forget all the boy racer cars, all the stainless steel imports for fat exhausts, and all the P sold to make everybody’s motor go faster.
   new zealand had an orgy of excess and nobody wants to won up.
   it looks like this is the way we will always conduct ourselves.
   from excess to bashing up the poor with no inbetweens nor any idea of how to moderate the kiwi desire for toys and drugs.
   • Colonial Viper 9.1

     22 February 2011 at 12:23 pm

     There’s an underlying malaise amongst too many groups of people. The young who are proactive get away from it by leaving the country. Many others sort of stagnate in a kind of stakeless, futureless view of their role in NZ.

     No wonder the use of antidepressants in kids is soaring.

Links to post

1. The Standard: posted on 20 February 2011 at 9:47 pm
2. Christina Fischer: posted on 21 February 2011 at 8:49 am
3. Samantha Davis: posted on 21 February 2011 at 9:34 am

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