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Say NO to the $140m SkyCity bailout

Written By: - Date published: 12:32 pm, February 11th, 2015 - 86 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: , , , ,

SkyCity bailout petition

The Labour Party is organising a petition against the $140 million bailout SkyCity is demanding – and John Key is insisting we have to pay to prevent getting an “eyesore” of a convention centre.

You can sign the petition here.

 

86 comments on “Say NO to the $140m SkyCity bailout ”

  1. Heartbleeding Liberal 1

    It’s disturbing that taxpayers will prop up an industry that is dependent on exploitation for its profits.

  2. mickysavage 2

    Wow the Taxpayer’s union also has a petition going if people are also inclined to sign theirs …

    As said on twitter:

    “That weird moment when Labour, the Greens and the Taxpayers Union are all on the same side #skycity”

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Great! The 0.2% are on side!

    • Enough is Enough 2.2

      Add DPF, Hooton and the whole ensemble of other Right Wing Nut Jobs to that side of the argument.

      • Tracey 2.2.1

        has david seymour been given any lines yet?

        • Murray Rawshark 2.2.1.1

          David Seymour says “Hi. Hi. Hi. It’s better that money stolen from honest wealth creators be turned over to the private sector, who will manage it wisely, than left in the hands of faceless government bureaucrats trying to impose socialism on us. Hi.”

          • Tracey 2.2.1.1.1

            Chuckling but…

            It seems he is saying he doesnt agree with the original deal but shuks now ACT has given confidence and supply he just HAS to vote for the budget even if it includes money to Sky Cityt

    • Tracey 2.3

      bill english says walk away rather than put taxpayer money in. key says put money in if no other option. key says he and bill are in agreement.

      turei caught key on the hop.

      read more here

      http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/66046983/Govt-at-odds-over-SkyCity-convention-centre

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.3.1

        Key was unprepared, when facing questions from Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei on the documents.

        You beat me to it Tracey 🙂

        “Unprepared”, eh. When was the last time Fearfacts were so critical?

  3. The Taxpayers’ Union has started a similar petition, and has accused John Key of “spinning faster than a roulette wheel”. See http://www.taxpayers.org.nz/skycity

    • Awesome, so people can freely choose which organisation they want to give their email address to. Though given the recent TU press release which published John Minto’s phone number at the bottom in some bizarre little intimidation stunt might sway people in one particular direction.

      • Skinny 3.1.1

        I am no big fan of petitions, well more the effectiveness, or lack of. I prefer the blunt
        instrument approach of a campaign.

        Start with a boycott from entering SkyCity, chosen days to mass protest outside their lifeblood sucking empire. Hit them in their pockets and watch their share price tumble.

    • Skinny 3.2

      One has to be suspicious when yourself, Hide and now the Taxpayer Association all come out barking like mad dogs against honest John.

      So what’s the handle of the new ACT Party and when is the party launch?

      • rawshark-yeshe 3.2.1

        lolz … how about F.A.C.T. .. Fearlessly Accounting Corporate Treason 😀

        • Skinny 3.2.1.1

          That little twerp killed my sisters cat speeding down their quiet street in Epsom. His name is now mud too the whole neighborhood who loved that cat. The little boy racer will get a cuff around his ears if I ever catch up with him.

        • tracey 3.2.1.2

          chuckle

          OR

          Taxpayers union

      • Tracey 3.2.2

        LOL at rebranding… Is Seymour still on hols? No one tell him Parliament has convened?

  4. mickysavage 4

    Question time today …

    “1. ANDREW LITTLE to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his promise to New Zealanders that “the construction of the new convention centre will not cost taxpayers or ratepayers a cent”; if not, why not?

    5. Dr DAVID CLARK to the Minister for Economic Development: How much extra money, if any, is the Government prepared to give SkyCity as part of the convention centre deal?”

  5. Enough is Enough 5

    There is no way this will happen.

    Even DPF is slamming this proposed bailout.

    There is universal opposition like I have never seen before. Not even the mining of sensitive land had this much opposition.

    • ScottGN 5.1

      Which is presumably why the Herald is now running spin from SkyCity that suggest they may be amenable to contributing more money.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11399811

    • Tracey 5.2

      The right care about their money being wasted, they dont give a shit about the lives SkyCity’s business model destroys. Casinos are a form of legalised theft with machines set to only pay out once a day and/or at certain points…they CANNOT lose

      • Naturesong 5.2.1

        Mild misunderstanding of how pokie machines in function.

        They’re programmed to return, on average X dollars out, for every $100.00 dollars played.
        Pokie machines being set (programmed) to returning between $87.50 through to $92.50 for every $100.00 bet is pretty standard.

        So, a punter puts $100.00 into the machine.
        After placing bets for that $100, on average $87.50 will be returned to said punter.
        That $87.50 is then bet, and will return on average $76.56
        The $76.56 is again bet and will return … etc

        Casinos make money by following two basic principles;
        1. Get punters coming back – fleecing everyone of their last dollar is counter productive.
        Much better to have a punter return to the casino a dozen times a year and lose $300.00 each time, than have them lose $5000.00 once and never ever come back
        2. Maximise betting turnover.
        Rate of bets turned over per hour is key to ensuring the house advantage really starts to cut.
        Machines and skilled croupiers are the limit of number of bets per hour by the house.
        To encourage punters to bet faster, peer pressure, creating a sense of urgency and excitement (stress) works for table games. Pokie machines use flashing lights and sounds to create that urgency.

        So, pokie machine can lose quite big on a single day, or hour, but over a month or year, the average return will level out to $87.50 (or whatever the advantage is set to) returned for every $100.00 bet.

        To add some context, english roulette returns $97.30 (rounded up) for every $100.00 bet,
        For dice, the pass line: $98.59 returned
        And for baccarat (and punto banco) the player hand returns $98.76, and the bank $98.94

        • Tracey 5.2.1.1

          Thanks naturesong

          Are those payout percentages correct for the casino’s in NZ?

          • Tracey 5.2.1.1.1

            Footnote: I am mathematically challenged

          • Naturesong 5.2.1.1.2

            The table games are correct – they’re pretty standard across Aussie, NZ, UK, europe.

            With pokies it really depends on the establishment.
            I wouldn’t be surprised to see pubs in NZ running a 12.5% house adv.
            The casinos are smarter than that.
            But, that’s just me guessing. There is legislation and regulation that should be accessable.

            I’ve been out of the industry for a few years now, and havent worked at sky city for more than 15 years. Last time I was upto date with NZ casino regulations was when Labour passed teh Gambling Act 2003, largely in response to Collins swapping casino licence favours for a convention centre when she was head of the CCA.

            edit: information about how nasty the machines can be set probably in the DIA site somewhere.

  6. Atiawa 6

    Every household should be asked to participate in a postal survey asking basic questions on;
    1 Our defence forces involvement in Iraq.
    2 The SkyCity convention centre.
    3 Jobs & wages.
    4 The environment.
    5.If a general election was held tomorrow, who would you support?
    6 Housing and it’s cost
    7 ?

    People can fill out the survey on-line or return their completed survey form (pre-paid) via NZ Post.
    I would be prepared to donate $200 as a contribution to costs and offer time for the delivery of the survey forms.
    We need to be more pro-active around these important issues and concentrate our time & resources on informing our communities rather than being reliant upon msm.
    Besides people like to be asked their opinion on issues.

    • Rosie 6.1

      Hi Atiawa,

      If you were a member of Action Station http://www.actionstation.org.nz/ you would have received such a survey! They sent out a survey to members last weekend asking them to rate the issues they felt were most important. Some of your questions were in there, housing, jobs & wages, environment but others such as TPPA, climate change, Te Tiriti and a few others.

      The purpose was to gauge the issues people felt most strongly about, and direct their campaign energy into those areas.

      Action station, incidentally has a Sky City petition going as well. (for what it’s worth. I’m also of the opinion that petitions are not amazingly effective but sign them anyway, as I did with the Labour Party one above, when it turned up in my in box this morning, and I’ll sign the Actions Station one too. Not the TU one though. I don’t want those fruit loops getting their hands on my deets).

  7. fisiani 7

    Any link to John Key insisting we have to pay? When he answers at 2.01pm will you retract?

    verb (used without object)
    1.
    to be emphatic, firm, or resolute on some matter of desire, demand, intention, etc.:
    He insists on checking every shipment.
    2.
    to lay emphasis in assertion:
    to insist on the justice of a claim.
    3.
    to dwell with earnestness or emphasis (usually followed by on or upon):
    to insist on a point in a discussion.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

      Sky’s mouthpiece passed on their threats, if that’s what you mean.

      • fisiani 7.1.1

        FFS I even posted a definition of insist. Another scurrilous defamation of Honest John,

        • framu 7.1.1.1

          why dont you start a court case then – go on, off you trot

        • McFlock 7.1.1.2

          moving from “less attractive” to “eyesore” certainly seems to fit the bill of “dwelling” and “emphasis”.

          Which makes the use of the word “insists” pretty reasonable. So your claim of a “scurrilous defamation of Honest John” is a scurrilous defamation of the copywriter, an outright lie about the “Whatever it takes/got the mobile number from the phone book” John’s character, and an example of the intellectual famine afflicting Nact supporters/voters/caucusmembers/ministers.

          • fisiani 7.1.1.2.1

            Listen to Question Time. Not a hint of insistence.

            • crashcart 7.1.1.2.1.1

              The fact that the only thing you can find to defend JJK on is the definition of insisst shows how far you are having to reach to shill for him on this topic. Welcome to the 3% Fissy.

            • McFlock 7.1.1.2.1.2

              In the lobby he used the words “less attractive” and “eyesore”.
              Doesn’t matter where he dwelled on and emphasised the point, the claim was that he’d he dwelled on and emphasised the point.

        • thatguynz 7.1.1.3

          Honest John? Is the sky even blue up there on Planet Key Fizzy Anus?

        • fisiani 7.1.1.4

          60 minutes since Honest John answered in Parliament and no insistence. Do the decent thing and change the intro. You know it’s another lie.

          • Sabine 7.1.1.4.1

            honest
            ˈɒnɪst/Submit
            adjective
            1.
            free of deceit; truthful and sincere.
            “I haven’t been totally honest with you”
            synonyms: truthful, sincere, candid, frank, direct, open, forthright, straight, straightforward, genuine, blunt, plain-spoken, plain-speaking, matter-of-fact, outspoken, as straight as a die, straight from the shoulder;
            More
            antonyms: insincere, biased
            morally correct or virtuous.
            “I did the only right and honest thing”
            synonyms: morally correct, upright, honourable, moral, ethical, principled, righteous, right-minded, respectable; More
            fairly earned, especially through hard work.
            “he’s struggling to make an honest living”
            (of an action) done with good intentions even if unsuccessful or misguided.
            “he’d made an honest mistake”
            synonyms: genuine, real, authentic, actual, true; More
            simple, unpretentious, and unsophisticated.
            “good honest food with no gimmicks”
            adverbinformal
            adverb: honest
            1.
            used to persuade someone of the truth of something.
            “you’ll like it when you get there, honest”

            John Key is a lot of things, but honest he is not.

          • McFlock 7.1.1.4.2

            Where does it say in the intro that Key insisted in the House?

            Methinks you doth squeal and squirm too much.

            • fisiani 7.1.1.4.2.1

              So quote any instance of him insisting. You cannot . No one can. Typical over egging and exaggeration. No wonder the Left are ignored.

              • tracey

                IF the taxpayer has to pay a cent toward it, do you think Key will pull out? To answer you must assume that the only option is to pay from taxpayer or not have it, so which way do you think Key will go in that scenario?

              • McFlock

                Using your own definition of “insist”, try googling it before you let your lust do the talking.
                Reality. It has a well-known liberal bias.

                Over-egging and exagerration? All this effort over the precise definition of a single word. You must be shitting yourself.

                And there’s still the full story about Sabin to come out – I wonder who key will try to throw under the bus? Tolley? Maybe she’ll make a tilt for the leadership if he tries. Before Collins can be rehabilitated and while Joyce is up to his neck in sky city.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Tolley is strong, and has the numbers. Whoa, I’m channeling Fisiani.

                  • tracey

                    John Key is strong. He is the most popular prime minister in the history of the world and that equates to honesty. He has 110% support in caucus and it would be suicide to think you could challenge him. All credit to them for wanting to be leader but the best popular prime minister will easily win the day…

                    THAT is channelling Fisi

          • English Breakfast 7.1.1.4.3

            Technically you’re right fisi…Key has not insisted on anything at this point. And I have no idea where the $140m comes from either. But what sticks in my craw is that the Govt should have just come out from day 1 and said NO MORE MONEY!

    • Tracey 7.2

      “Joyce said the concept drawings were not an “eyesore” but had not proved possible for $402m. Fleshing those out to full drawings had pushed up the cost.

      Government cash was his “least preferred option” but he could not rule that out as a result of current talks with SkyCity.”

      Can you now point to Key contradicting Joyce?

    • freedom 7.3

      Remember Honest John insisting there would be no increase in G.S.T ?

    • vto 7.4

      fisiani, why did Key agree to a $402m “eyesore” in 2013?

  8. mickysavage 8

    Reposted from previously. I am interested in links between Sky and Key. There is this, Mark Unsworth of lobbyists Saunders Unsworth is or at least was SkyCity’s lobbyist and is a close friend of Key’s chief of staff Wayne Eagleson. In fact according to Farrar they have been best of mates for many years. It would be interesting to see how many times Unsworth has met recently with Eagleson or Key or Joyce …

    http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/skycity-pokies-deal-causing-key-more-angst-2012041820#axzz3RNRcwo62

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/sin_city.html

    • McFlock 8.1

      Hosking apparently gets $50k a year from Sky city, according to the herald.

      Hosking did a big rant in favour of key just before the KDC moment of truth on seven sharp, 15/9/2014. i linked to it on open mike that day, now the bloody link’s broken.

      Key gives sky more pokies and is in the pipeline for money.

      I’m sure it’s pure coincidence that a sky city functionary endorses key just before a major media event and five days from the election.

    • English Breakfast 8.2

      That’s incredibly tiresome…more of the left’s misguided obsession with Key. The guy’s incredibly popular, get over it and support policies that will win back the centre.

  9. Ever since my eye fell on the Skytower, SkyCity has been an eyesore.
    Privatising the view of the harbour with a prick to sell bets is an eye poke.

    • Molly 9.1

      My response to the building, so economically but concisely described. Thanks Dave.

      • Every since Sauron’s SkyCity’s tower of perdition elevated itself above the people of Auckland, a great malevolent “I” (international capital) has been upon NZ. Welcome to Mordor, people.

        Saruman: [inside Orthanc] Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency. Concealed within his fortress, the lord of Mordor sees all. His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh. You know of what I speak, Gandalf. A great eye, lidless, wreathed in flame.

        Gandalf: The Eye of Sauron.

        Saruman: He has gathered all evil to him. Very soon he will have summoned an army great enough to launch an assault upon Middle Earth.

        [Gandalf touches the Palantir, sees the Eye of Sauron]
        […]
        [Gandalf tries to leave, but is stopped]

        Saruman: You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron! There are none who can. Against the power of Mordor there can be no victory. We must join with him, Gandalf. We must join with Sauron. It would be wise, my friend.

        Gandalf: Tell me, friend, when did Saruman the wise abandon reason for madness?

        Saruman: I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, but you have elected the way of pain!

  10. JanMeyer 10

    The correct neoliberal stance on this is crystal clear (hence Taxpayer Union, Hooten, Farrar et al) – say no to $140m! Labour’s position is a little cloudier, but has the advantage of being populist

  11. Tom Gould 11

    Even a reduced profit of $50m each year until 2048 is worth about $1.6 billion, plenty enough to pay for the cost over-runs and expansion plans. Funny how big-business NZ big-mouth Phil has caught laryngitis when corporate welfare is on the table? Different story when it’s a bunch of cleaners wanting a living wage, eh? That would destroy the economy.

  12. freedom 12

    Gotta love the PM’s new line that by questioning the costs associated to a project, a person is now said to be in support of that project. Cue slow clap 😕

  13. tracey 13

    Key says he is backing the SkyCity deal because it is the only one that will not cost taxpayers a cent.

    “I’ve spoken to lots of different parties about potential deals for them to put together a convention centre,” Key said.

    “It’s blindingly obvious it won’t pay for itself. In the case of SkyCity it is obvious that they would want different parts and different ways of making money.”

    Tibble says Ngati Whatua’s offer is still on the table, but admits it can not compete with the $350 million offer from SkyCity.”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/calls-govt-rethink-skycity-deal-4839815

    If you apply logic, then now it is going to cost taxpayers a cent, Key won’t back it (see his 2012 statement in bold)

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      Applying logic and facts to what National is doing will only get you the RWNJ whingers in here telling you that you’re wrong, i.e, see fisi up thread.

  14. Papa Tuanuku 14

    can they take it to the net step? a boycott is needed so that folks can put a stake in the sand

  15. tracey 15

    The Herald and Clare trevitt holding the government to account and letting the public know about th eimportant issues of the day

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11400333

    • ScottGN 15.1

      Trevett’s already earned her crust for the day Tracey. She was entrusted to wheel out the government’s pre-emptive spin around Sabin this morning in an effort to try and shut down the Opposition’s attacks in QT.

  16. Lie #21 added to BLiP’s list of convention centre porkies
    https://offkey.hackpad.com/Sky-City-Deal-6R58VItucDv

    “New Zealand is getting a new convention centre at no cost at all with the risks taken by the operators.” FALSE

    (drop me a message if you want to edit the list(s) … robertpnz AT hotmail DOT com )

  17. McGrath 17

    Key cannot see the wood for the trees on this one, and you have to wonder how and why. Both Left and Right are against cash for Sky City. Any handover of taxpayers cash will see him lose the next election.

    • b waghorn 17.1

      Not many things give me a pain in my guts but the thought of tax payers money of which a large share comes from people who couldn’t afford shares in sky city ,will go to ,as some greasy looking Aussie headman said on the news, “make sure it works for the share holders” .
      Makes a man want to ……..

  18. RedBaronCV 18

    This is so spectactularly greedy on the part of Sky City that you have to watch in amazement – and wonder why they are so sure that the deal won’t be dropped.

    Something the shareholders need to ask –

  19. Observer (Tokoroa) 19

    @ John Key

    I have a question for you. But it can wait.

    It is appallingly sad that the smartest and cutest and happiest man ever to live in god’s own country, has been duped legally by two or three minor Gambling Executives.

    They made friends with him. Helped him possibly to slur. Promised him fame and political benefits. And simultaneously took him down for about $100 million. Poor bastard.

    Billy English tripping along, with small steps, just behind the great man promising his own forever adoration until death.

    And behind this duo, A well fed Caucus pleading with their own blood and the lives of their children that they will support the Poor Bastard in everything, all the time.

    Further behind, but just as adoring, the electors of Auckland. The super deluded of the New Zealand population.

    I give you the above tortured adoring, non critical, daisy chain to contemplate. I also invite you to say how wonderful John Key is to get our National Debt up from $10 Billion 6 years ago to an impressive $100 Billion today.

    Auckland has more problems than any nation could possibly cope with. It is a mess.

    But please tell me John which piece or part of Auckland CBD is not an eyesore?

  20. Observer (Tokoroa) 20

    Apparently:

    the poor bastard is being bitten for $140 Million.

    Jingo – I hope they leave a bit of money for the Convention Center’s single most important accessory. Auckland prostitutes. These are claimed to be the best in the world.

    Without Auckland’s daughters, the Convention Center will be a huge disaster. Think of the Money the National Party will lose!

  21. tc 21

    Its not a bailout, there is no crises that requires addressing with taxpayer funds. Its corporare handouts to a hugely profitable existing monopoly to expand their already ugly footprint. Bailout is not the correct term.

  22. Its not a “bail out” …it’s payback time for all the funding National needed to get back into power in order to make all this happen for those rich pricks who choose to run pokies and prostitutes to make their millions. This is corruption of democracy..pure and simple.

  23. freedom 23

    A snappy little segment from Campbell Live last night where they did a bit of fund raising for Sky City. Contains some excellent ‘from the street’ responses.

  24. vto 24

    So why did Steven Joyce and John Key agree to a $402m “eyesore” in the first place?

    What a couple of absolute muppets. No excuse.

  25. vto 25

    I cant believe people (the MSM) are buying the line that you cannot get “world class” architecture for $402m. Ffs what a load of shit.

    You can get world class architecture for $400million, $40million, $4million, even $400,000….

    Blatant bullshite

  26. Sabine 26

    Sky City running Radio ads, touting how much money it spends on community …Staff….:)

    anyone happy to run a counter ad touting how much the gambling addiction costs the community?

    or how much the government spend on propping up poverty wages for its Staff via accom benefits, hardship benefits, medical grants etc. etc.

    gosh,

    aotearoa = banana republic

  27. Observer (Tokoroa) 27

    @ Sabine

    I have no idea why John Key and Bill English have wanted to take us down the dirty path of untrammeled Gambling and Prostitution.

    Their dirty politics just gets dirtier and dirtier and involves the whole nation in it.

    The Sky City doesn’t pay Tax on its slimy adverts. So the Community gets very little, given the $millions they take from weak people’s pockets.

    • Sabine 27.1

      i know.

      but prostitutes, gambling, alcohol all do well in hard times.

      and we are smack dab in the middle of hard times.

  28. Adrian Hall 28

    Completely opposed to tax payer money or rates going to a company that just reported $11m per month profit for the last 6 months.
    Would rather have a referendum on this than the stupid idea of changing the flag.

    Will the tax payer then be a 25% shareholder of the convention centre once built?

    • aerobubble 28.1

      Oh no its much worse than that. Look at the benefits…

      i. extension of licence, no need to tender and risk losing out, or paying for the
      extended licience, where did you think the 400+ million in value come from,
      taxpayers of course will not be getting any revenue from the monopoly holder,
      removing the uncertainty increased the value of sky shares,

      ii. reversing the trend of fewer pokies, sky city get effectively take pokies off local pubs and house them centrally, and govt will build a subway station to funnel gamblers from an even larger catchment,

      iii. skycity get to pickup prime land from govt own tv company, wait theres more, sky city want to build the convention center on their main block and use the site to build a hotel, thus leaving the convention center to house, well more usual casino activities, like may movies or stage shows, or gaming tables for high rollers when conventions are not on, which they no doubt will whine for more money from govt
      for running at a loss,

      Govt gets to build the extension of sky city, that was always going to be a multi functional center, and gift cheap land, renew liciences at lower rate, get more pokies, a subway station… ..and taxpayers get what, a national convention center, no, by the time sky city had its architects mold and shape it, it’ll will be more casino hotel than convention center

  29. Observer (Tokoroa) 30

    Hi Aerobubble

    Your detailed comment is important. John key and Bill English have made an utter hash of this. It is a difficult thing to think of a more smelly dirty muck up.

    They were taken for a ride by a couple of gambling executives. Crikey!

    No wonder these two clowns have lifted our National debt of $10 Billion Dollars, 6 yrs ago – to a current $100 Billion today. Great stuff !

    I suppose key will shove the GST up again – to drain the pockets of ordinary people to pay for the massive waste. It is likely that John Key’s wealthy friends won’t be asked to pay a cent. Nor Bill English’ friends.

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