Second Kremlin Killer Unmasked, Putin Untroubled

Written By: - Date published: 12:57 pm, October 9th, 2018 - 185 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, capitalism, class war, corruption, Deep stuff, democracy under attack, Dirty Politics, International, Politics, Russia, Spying, Syria - Tags: , ,

Website Bellingcat claims to have identified the second spy involved in the  poisoning of Sergei Skripal. He’s Alexander Mishkin, a doctor working for Russia’s GRU intelligence agency.

The website said it had tracked down Mishkin’s real identity after being given a scanned copy of his actual passport. Bellingcat confirmed Mishkins details with people who knew him and by using open source information.

In September, Bellingcat identified the other spy as Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga, a special forces veteran.

Mishkin and Chepiga allegedly poisoned Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury in March using the Soviet nerve agent novichok. Both arrived and left the UK using false identities; Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov.

It’s terrific investigative work by Bellingcat, though it will lead nowhere. The two men will never face justice for their crimes, though there may be karmic retribution if Moscow decides it would be cleaner if they just disappeared.

The Salisbury poisonings will go down in history as one of the most incompetent spying operations this century. The only similar case I can think of is the Rainbow Warrior bombing, where the French killers were that over confident that they stayed on in NZ holidaying when they could have easily left.

Mishkin and Chepiga’s bizarro TV interview needs to be seen in the context of an organisation, and a state, that simply doesn’t give a toss about the truth.

So why does this all matter?

The Russian Federation is a mafia state. It has aligned itself with some of the most odious regimes in the world, both in terms of state and non-state players. It has used (and probably bankrolled) the right wing anti-democracy website Wikileaks in a successful attempt to subvert the last American election. It continues cyber warfare in the US and elsewhere, working to erode trust in democratic institutions.

Why does it do this?

It is in Russia’s interest to bypass democratic norms. It makes a fair bit of its overseas earnings in the energy industry, in deals with dodgy ‘businessmen’ that are mostly free from independent Governmental oversight. It is able to spread its influence in the middle and far East by undermining cooperation between western countries and their allies. It is able to invade and annex the territory of neighbouring countries because the it has actively worked to lower the bar of what is acceptable diplomatic behaviour.

Russia does these things because it is profitable. The pursuit of money is the prime driver of the Putin gang. like most corpulent capitalists, there is just one golden rule; he who has the gold makes the rules.

The downside is that Russia blatantly thumbing it’s nose at the norms of the civilised world encourages other states to behave monstrously as well.

Two days ago, the Saudi Government kidnapped, killed and dismembered journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

They committed this crime in their own consulate in the sovereign country of Turkey. There is no doubt that Khashoggi entered the consulate and the Saudi’s do not deny that. However, in a claim that could have come from the Kremlin, they say that every security camera in the building mystriously stopped recording when Khashoggi walked through the door. Apparently with a straight face, the Saudi’s are claiming to still be searching the building for him.

This is the kind of atrocity that Russia’s behaviour enables. The Salisbury poisoning may have failed in its prime objective, killing only an innocent local, Dawn Burgess, but it has succeeded in making the terrible acceptable.

A former editor of the Guardian, CP Snow, once said comment is free, but facts are sacred.

These days, comment is meaningless and facts are running scared.

If Moscow can’t be held accountable, if the Kremlin can’t be shamed, what hope is there in for the majority of the world’s citizens who live in similarly nasty regimes? If the oppressed can no longer aspire to freedom, because the very definition of freedom has been blurred, what is to be done?

 

 

185 comments on “Second Kremlin Killer Unmasked, Putin Untroubled”

  1. Michelle 1

    pure evil and we as a country need to be careful with these types of people and leaders really we should not be doing any business with these types of countries keep away from them we don’t want them her either.

    • Morrissey 1.1

      Are you talking about the U.K. or the U.S. or Australia?

      • Gosman 1.1.1

        No I think Michelle is meaning Russia. You know the country that likely sent government agents to kill people in a foreign nation.

      • Ed 1.1.2

        I’m not sure Michelle has a full grasp of the facts.

      • reason 1.1.3

        “The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter.”== Robert Parry

        To understand Putin …. and his high popularity in Russia …. then you have to understand before Putin.

        The doco below explains, how in typical fashion …. the west engineered the downfall of a Government with Flaws …. and replaced it with something much much worse.

        Rampant Corruption and looting of Russians state Assetts then took place …. and they quickly became one of the most unequal society s on earth ….

        While rich pirates and Oligarchs made out like bandits.

        Two New Zealanders …. the Chandler Bro s …. who feature in this NZ rich list … basically got rich,…. in part, ….. by stealing from poor and average Russian citizens

        1 – Graeme Hart – $7b
        2 – Richard Chandler – $4.2b
        3 – Todd Family – $3.3b
        4 – Erceg Family – $3.3b
        5 – Michael Friedlander – $1.5b
        6 – Christopher Chandler – $1.4b
        7 – Goodman Family – $1.35b
        8 – Stephen Jennings – $1b
        9 – Michael Fay – $900m
        9 – Douglas Myers – $900m
        9 – David Richwhite – $900m

        Three others on the list of our Oligarchs got rich, in part …. by getting their hands on New Zealanders state assets ( Graem Hart , michael Fay, David richwhite ) ….

        “Hart gained a big break when he purchased the Government Printing Office for less than its capital value in 1990. The purchase was 1.4x earnings and Hart was provided generous payment terms. Then New Zealand Prime Minister David Lange initially refused to sign off on the transaction

        Two others are Drug sellers / pushers ( Myers, Erceg ) … getting rich from the pushing and selling the drug ethanol.

        ****************************

        Regarding Russia and Putin again ….. John Pilger is worth a read

        “The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter. Robert Parry, one of America’s most distinguished investigative journalists, who revealed the Iran-Contra scandal, wrote recently, “No European government, since Adolf Hitler’s Germany, has seen fit to dispatch Nazi storm troopers to wage war on a domestic population, but the Kiev regime has and has done so knowingly. Yet across the West’s media/political spectrum, there has been a studious effort to cover up this reality even to the point of ignoring facts that have been well established..” http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-rise-of-fascism-is-again-the-issue

        • Ed 1.1.3.1

          Thank you reason – looks very interesting.
          Pilger is superb and courageous.
          Abby Martin is equally brave and independent.

        • joe90 1.1.3.2

          Jennings made his fortune as one of Putin’s favourite kleptocrats.

          https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/stephen-jennings-exit-is-a-big-loss-for-russia-19666

          • reason 1.1.3.2.1

            Thanks for the Info Joe90 …. that makes 6 of our Oligarchs on that rich list who got rich from the great international asset sales scams.

            The best thing new Zealand could do for Russian citizens …. or Malaysian ones …. Chinese etc ….. Is remove ourselves from the spider web of tax havens / offshore banking.

            Its what John Key plugged us into ….. and its the biggest driver of kleptocracy, inequality, corruption and poverty in the world.

            Its one of the main pillars which supports corrupt regimes …..

    • Dukeofurl 1.2

      A quote for the ages:

      ‘In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.
      – Winston Churchill, Tehran 1943

      • gsays 1.2.1

        What floors me is that for all if the UK’s resources and powers, after months of investigating, came up with a highly disputable ‘series of events’.
        Now this website has ‘identified’ the other spy.

        Suddenly the inevitable sausage party breaks out on TS, cause the Russians have done something that the US, UK and Israel have made a habit of for donkeys years.

        It’s a mighty long bow to draw, stating the barbaric actions of the Saudis in Turkey is because of the Ruskies.

        Remember the words of Bill Hicks – “All governments are liars and murderers”.

        I can’t help but feel the real motivation for this post is nah nah na nah na.

  2. Dukeofurl 2

    Any one thinking that Bellingcat has unmasked any one has watched too many Zorro movies.
    Its a Kardashian level of credibility.

    • Stuart Munro 2.1

      I’m sure the Putinistas want to pretend that.

      The fact remains the MH17 investigation endorsed all of their conclusions.

      • Ed 2.1.1

        Says Stuart from his foxhole in Latvia…..

      • Dukeofurl 2.1.2

        “The fact remains the MH17 investigation endorsed all of their conclusions.”

        Are you sure on that . because they dont say that at all

        https://www.government.nl/topics/mh17-incident/investigation-by-the-dutch-safety-board
        check …. government website

        what they did say was
        .The OVV made no pronouncements about guilt or liability. These matters were not addressed in the Board’s investigation.

        Are you sure that bellingcat made no determination of guilt or liability because thats what the Dutch OVV say.
        Broadly the investigation came to these conclusions.
        ‘The crash of flight MH17 on 17 July 2014 was caused by the detonation of a 9N314M-type warhead launched from the eastern part of Ukraine using a Buk missile system.”
        A missile launched from Eastern Ukraine !

        • Stuart Munro 2.1.2.1

          I guess you didn’t follow the investigation. It is all still there on Bellingcat.

          But to get the full flavor you need the contemporaneous Russian propaganda – Russian official claims it was a Ukrainian fighter (supported by photoshopped video).

          The report pointed out that a fighter interception would’ve left traces on the wreckage – bullet holes. A fighter also would not be likely to mistake the identity of a commercial jet, they can see it, but a BUK crew depends on a radar image.

          The route of the BUK was fully traced right back to the Russian airbase where the stunt flying that tipped Bellingcat off happened before Russia could come up with a unified official story.

          Of course, if you’re straining to confirm the Russian line, you’re going to find Bellingcat rather hard going.

          • Dukeofurl 2.1.2.1.1

            Ive just shown you telling lies, SM by claiming a Dutch Investigation endorsed anything

            Im sticking with the Dutch OVV conclusions :
            a Buk missile launched from eastern Ukraine.

            Its no mystery the Russian -Ukraine separatists had been shooting down Ukraine transport planes in the area in the previous weeks.

            tell us what was bellingcats conclusions about the shooting down of A Russian airliner over the Black sea in 2001.
            To make it easy for you ,Ukraine admitted liability from an ‘errant S200 missile’ fired during war games by its military.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

            Who would have guessed in a war zone missiles could be ‘errant’, when Bellingcat knows better.

            • Stuart Munro 2.1.2.1.1.1

              I don’t think you’ve shown squat, DoU.

              “Its no mystery the Russian -Ukraine separatists had been shooting down Ukraine transport planes in the area in the previous weeks.”

              News to me.

              “tell us what was bellingcats conclusions about the shooting down of A Russian airliner over the Black sea in 2001”

              Since Bellingcat dates from 2012, and MH17 from 2014, they had no conclusions about it.

              Good to see you working so hard to defend the indefensible however.

              Yes, Bellingcat does know better. Suspend your prejudice for an hour or two and read up on MH17. You might learn something.

    • Gosman 2.2

      Why exactly? They seem to have nailed this.

      • Dukeofurl 2.2.1

        seems pretty vague to me
        ‘The crash of flight MH17 on 17 July 2014 was caused by the detonation of a 9N314M-type warhead launched from the eastern part of Ukraine using a Buk missile system.’

        Russia has claimed , with photo type evidence that bellingcat loves, that ‘Ukraine’s 156th air defence regiment armed with Buk-M1 systems was in the area of the conflict. The regiment’s command centre and the first unit were in the area of Avdeyevka, near Donetsk, the second unit was near Mariupol, and the third, near Lugansk. All in all the[Ukrainian] regiment[in the area] had 17 Buk-M1 systems at its disposal.’

        But it could well be Russian sourced units which had previously shot down Ukraine’s jets.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_aircraft_losses_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis
        Ukrainian Air Force – 14 July 2014: A Ukrainian Antonov An-26
        Ukrainian Air Force – 16 July 2014: A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25
        [MH17 17th july]
        Ukrainian Air Force – 23 July 2014: Two Sukhoi Su-25
        Ukrainian Air Force – 7 August 2014 Mig 29

        Those are the hits around the relevant period , sure to be plenty of misses. But as everyone forgets, except me , it was a war zone. Thats what happens.

        • Stuart Munro 2.2.1.1

          Were Russian aircraft ground attacking Ukrainian forces around those dates, oh desperate little wannabe Putin exculpator?

          Why would that be unlikely?

          Keep reading – you’ll get there eventually – once you wake up to what kind of regime you’re so desperately defending.

          • Dukeofurl 2.2.1.1.1

            Munro said it was news that Ukrainian planes were being shot down- I gave a list!!

            I also gave example when Ukraine forces shot down Russian airliner- by accident !…. just shows how good their training is for the Ukraine anti aircraft missile soldiers.

            The Ukrainians didnt even have the excuse of it being a war zone, where things can go wrong.

            • Dukeofurl 2.2.1.1.1.1

              I can give an example of a missile system which confused an airliner for an attacking fighter- and shot it down,

              When the UN navy shot down an Iranian airliner- for some reason the tracking system ‘confused it’ for something else, an attacking fighter jet. Purists would quibble and say airliners dont act like attacking jets but who are we to to question the highly trained US navy.
              You could also say MH17 was coming from wrong direction, but hey the featureless plain spreads out for 100s of miles, which way was the russian border that day when you drive down roads

              • Stuart Munro

                But you evidently still haven’t read Bellingcat’s detailed investigation, from the stunt aerobatics, to the journey across Russia, repeated photos from different sources of the Buk responsible, accounts of a BUK returning, and so forth.

                You are trying to invent a possibility to contest a full account. I understand why, as a menkurt dupe of the Russian propaganda machine, you need to do so if you want to persuade anybody of anything. The facts are just so inconvenient.

                “it was a war zone”

                It was an invasion pretending to be a separatist movement.

        • Ed 2.2.1.2

          “oh desperate little wannabe Putin exculpator?”

          You always know Stuart’s arguments are on the ropes when he resorts to insults.

  3. Morrissey 3

    OPEN LETTER TO TE REO PUTAKE

    Could you direct us to the indignant post you wrote following Israel’s assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel in 2010?

    After that, could you direct us to at least one of the indignant posts you wrote after one of the thousands of extra-judicial assassinations carried out by U.S. drones over the last decade in Pakistan, Yemen, and Afghanistan?

    Thanks in anticipation,

    Morrissey Breen

    • Gosman 3.1

      For your sake I hope Lprent is not on moderation duty. He tends to take a dim view of people demanding contributors do something.

    • Adrian Thornton 3.2

      Yes I would like to see those posts as well.

    • gsays 3.3

      C’mon Morrissey, it’s only bad if The Russians do it.

      • Ed 3.3.1

        That would appear to be the view of several commentators here.

      • Morrissey 3.3.2

        Well said, my friend. Be careful, though—there’s an ethereal presence lurking which will clothe whatever you write with [a threatening square-bracketed reprimand in bold type].

      • Not so, gsays. There have been many, many posts on TS pointing the bone at other countries that have behaved appallingly. However, Russia is the villain du jour because they have been exposed in recent times as having engaged in hacking, subverting democracy and, in Salisbury, an extra-judicial killing. If you think TS needs a post exposing another country’s perfidy then please let us know. Even better, write a guest post.

        • Morrissey 3.3.3.1

          having engaged in hacking, subverting democracy and, in Salisbury, an extra-judicial killing.

          The U.S. and Israel do all that, to a far greater and more lethal extent.

  4. Dukeofurl 4

    And there is more :
    “This is the kind of atrocity that Russia’s behaviour enables. ” [The killing in the Saudi Consulate]
    Pleeeease , have you not heard of the Saudi involvement , with US backing , in the Yemen civil war.
    No mention of enabling there is there. Apparently not as though Saudi strongarm antics arent well known.

    Ask Canada about that … or is that too Putins fault when they ‘stand up for human rights’
    https://www.arabianbusiness.com/politics-economics/403190-canada-refuses-to-give-ground-in-dispute-with-saudi-arabia
    or in simple terms
    “Earlier this month the Saudi government expelled Canada’s ambassador, recalled its own envoy and froze all new trade and investments after the North American nation denounced a crackdown on rights activists there.[Saudi Arabia]

  5. Aaron 5

    Dude, you sound like a CIA asset sent to mislead us :-).

    For anyone wanting accurate analysis of this issue try former UK ambassdor Craig Murray’s blog, he’s been tearing the whole Russian conspiracy thing to shreds.

    Here’s a good example https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-incredible-case-of-boshirov-and-petrovs-visas/

  6. I do agree that the atrocities committed by states against individuals they don’t like will increase. I think many countries do it including the countries you mention. I think they think they can get away with it and they are probably correct. No country is immune. I despair sometimes.

  7. alwyn 7

    One of the related postings to this item is the following.
    https://thestandard.org.nz/ardern-was-right-to-hold-back-on-russia/
    I wonder if MickySavage would care to comment now on the views he expressed in April that Jacinda, and Corbyn, were right in refusing to accept that the Russians were responsible for the poisonings in Britain?

    • Hanswurst 7.1

      Leaving aside any questions regarding the legitimacy of this most recent information, what you are saying is akin to criticising a court for not condemning an alleged criminal the moment they are charged. It’s absolutely nuts.

    • Dukeofurl 7.2

      because an outfit like bellingcat has some claims ?

      Does your ‘White helmet’ fit a bit too tightly Alwyn

      • Gosman 7.2.1

        What element of the information that Bellingcat has provided do you object to?

        Did you think the interview of the two suspects broadcast on RT was believable?

        • Dukeofurl 7.2.1.1

          I prefer Agatha Christie for mysteries to be solved from an array of improbable s

        • David Mac 7.2.1.2

          Yup, I think we could look at a million Russian bucket-lists and not see ‘A winter visit to Salisbury Cathedral’ on one of them.

          It has become impossible to sort the bona fide from the fabricated on the internet information highway and the end result is our increasing tendency to treat everything with suspicion and believe nothing. The unfortunate by-product is a connected global population that stands for nothing and tolerates everything.

          • Dukeofurl 7.2.1.2.1

            Heard of Stonehenge?
            Would that be on a bucket list of yours?
            Next question is what city is closest to this ancient wonder.

            But what you have proved by your few sentences is that the answer you want can be got by the question you ask. It’s manipulation 101

            • Anne 7.2.1.2.1.1

              I thought the main reason they visited Salisbury was because they wanted to look at a church spire cos, y’know, it’s a real tall spire.

              All the way from Russia for two days to see a church spire. Gosh, they were keen.

            • David Mac 7.2.1.2.1.2

              Ha! I like your brain Duke.

              Yes, we are all easily led down the path paved with what we’d like to believe.

              Can we agree that any paunchy man post 50’s posing shirtless on a stallion with a wilderness background is not to be forgiven.

              re: Your Stonehenge point. If a visitor to Auckland I can imagine there would be footage of me going to Kelly Tarltons, catching the ferry over to Devonport and having lunch in a cafe over there. Walking the length of Queen Street, sneaking a look in The Civic Theatre (It’s in the Lonely Planet) and going up the Sky Tower.

              But me and my mate trudging through the suburban snow of Glen Eden, a few streets over from the Skripal’s joint …doesn’t it strike you as odd?

            • Gosman 7.2.1.2.1.3

              They didn’t visit Stonehenge only the Cathedral. They didn’t even visit the Cathedral on the first day despite the center of Salisbury still being walkable despite the weather

              • Dukeofurl

                Stonehenge was the reason to go to Salisbury, Cathedral is likely what they recommend in visitor centres as well. I think the bus tours were cancelled for weather reasons

                You know , the visitor centers list the sights and you sometimes only pick one because its easiest to get to and you have the time gap for an hour or so.

                • Gosman

                  Stop right there. They claimed that the Cathedral was the main reason they went to Salisbury. The timings around visiting suggests they did not go to Stonehenge as there was not enough time. You are expecting people to accept the idea that two men flew in to London jumped on a train to Salisbury, did not visit the Cathedral or anything else on that day but then went back to London, stayed the night in a Hotel in London (not Salisbury), caught a train back to Salisbury the next day, visitited the Cathedral and nothing else, and then caught the train back to London and flew out without visiting ANY other sights in the UK?

                • veutoviper

                  Why Stonehenge was not the reason was done to death in the earlier posts. I know this because I was one of the ones who did very detailed research! It was closed most of the time that weekend; when it is open you need prior bookings in most circumstances; the only bus services from Salisbury to/from Stonehenge run from the railway station, not the town although there are also round trip bus trips from London (very limited though at that time of the year) which they did not use, too far to walk from Salisbury, etc etc.

          • Ed 7.2.1.2.2

            And then there are those who believe everything the British establishment tells them.
            Did you believe what you were told about Iraq and wmd?

            • David Mac 7.2.1.2.2.1

              Hi Ed, I take all commentary with a grain of salt. In these days of agenda driven reporting I think it is the wise approach.

              What I try not to do is consider some reporters as constantly speaking the gospel truth and contrary views wallpapering with nothing but lies. I’m not always successful at this because we all carry bias but it’s what I try to do.

  8. “Democratic norms?? ”
    “This is the kind of atrocity that Russia’s behaviour enables.”

    You mean like UK’s MI5 granting its informants legal cover to participate in crimes that may extend to murder, torture and sexual assault?

    Are you completely sure who is encouraging who when it comes to outrageous acts of the State? Who would you define as ‘the good guys”?

    And I’m linking this article as this weeks token expose of state abuse by ‘the good guys’, because the list of assassinations, illegal and indefinite detention, misinformation, spying on citizens, and the dismantling of democratically elected Governments who just happen to have the ‘wrong’ leaders is just too long…

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/04/mi5-sought-immunity-for-agents-criminal-acts-tribunal-told

    Russia and Putin are appalling, and i’m grateful not to live there..but to think that the UK, America etc aren’t involved in the same activities is pretty weird. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be in their state cross hairs..and as for the Guardians ‘sacred facts’, well I’m pretty sure they just keep that on their site to make themselves feel better as they yet again block comments on their latest Corbyn or Palestine/Israel article.

    And, incidentally,..there is still no evidence to say this was a State ordered/approved hit. As I’m sure you would agree, Russia is a pretty wild place with a loose alignment of Oligarchs and ex military types. Being a double crossing spy type isn’t exactly a friend winning activity.

  9. Dukeofurl 9

    In Red Square at any time , for the amusement of tourists and for some $$, there can be 15 Lenin look- a- likes and maybe 10 Stalins.
    They even get a bit territorial.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3152940/Street-performers-impersonating-Joseph-Stalin-Vladimir-Lenin-fight.html

    has TRP offered up his answers to this eternal mystery- because they look like someone but clearly they arent .

    • Gosman 9.1

      Did you watch the interview with the two Russian suspects and do you think their explanation for why they were in Salisbury was believable?

      • Michelle 9.1.1

        I watched the so called Russian tourist act and it was a joke them trying to pretend they were tourist and to make matters worse their leader must think we are all stupid. Thank goodness they are miles away from us those people give me the creeps especially putin.

        • Dukeofurl 9.1.1.1

          So you didnt find this to be ‘creepy’

          Italian court finds CIA agents guilty of kidnapping terrorism suspect
          https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/04/cia-guilty-rendition-abu-omar

          Imagine that , having a trial and stuff. I suppose today we just go to bellingcat – some guy with a computer in his basement- for the answers.

          • Ed 9.1.1.1.1

            Michelle does not appear to be particularly well-informed.
            I sense a new troll has arrived.

            [And I sense an old troll will soon be leaving us… Michelle is entitled to her opinion, Ed. You can try to rebut it, if you can muster an argument, but do not resort to pointless attacks. TRP]

        • David Mac 9.1.1.2

          I agree Michelle, I think the cctv footage of the 2 Russians walking within a few streets of Skripal’s home was damning.

          Imagine a similar situation in Auckland, 2 alleged spies ambling down a suburban street in Panmure, two streets over from the target’s home. Not damning evidence but my alarm bells are clanging.

      • Ed 9.1.2

        Do you still believe the White Helmets are a peaceful rescue organisation?
        Do you still believe the stories about Iraq and WMDs?

      • Dukeofurl 9.1.3

        “Do you think their explanation for why they were in Salisbury was believable?”

        Well based on the idea of ‘truth can be determined from watching people explain’ – I would say bollocks to having an answer to that.

        Unlike you Gosman , I refute first and then ask a new question.
        Do you believe the UK security services have no explanation and no
        video of the Skripals movements around Salisbury that day ?

        And hows your though process on the Red Square impersonators- and do you think that a physical resemblance makes you that person.

        • Gosman 9.1.3.1

          I asked if you believed the two suspects explanations for their movements. It is unclear if you do or not. Do you think these two really flew all the way from Russia just to visit Salisbury cathedral?

          • Dukeofurl 9.1.3.1.1

            Stonehenge .

            have you heard of it, its just outside Salisbury. Its a must see and yes I would visit the Cathedral if in the town for Stonehenge, its is really something.
            You must have been a tourist, surely. You do end up visiting some mundane things but of course the whole purpose is to have memories

  10. corodale 10

    This Khabib is the dangerous Russian to watch:

    Khabib adds 3mn Instagram followers in just 24 hours after UFC win over McGregor https://www.rt.com/sport/440684-khabib-3-million-instagram-mcgregor/
    https://www.rt.com/sport/440559-khabib-conor-ufc229-lightweight-title/
    https://www.rt.com/sport/440690-what-next-khabib-mcgregor-ufc/

    The Irishman over-did the pre-match trash-talk, then lost to the better opponent. The Irishman was even stupid enough to smear against Khabib’s Russian team-mate, calling him a “terrorist snitch” (long story involving Egypt and FBI…)

    The background to that MMA megafight at UFC 229 in Las Vegas, would be more than enough for a political science doctoral thesis.

  11. Ed 11

    This is arrant nonsense.
    So false, I wonder if it’s been written simply to get a response.
    For the facts, read Craig Murray.

    • McFlock 11.1

      The guy who didn’t realise that two people can walk down different corridors at the same time?

      lols

      • Ed 11.1.1

        So you regard Bellingcat as more reliable.
        Have you read all Murray has written on Salisbury?
        Or just the right wing establishment smears against him?
        It sounds mighty like the latter.

        • McFlock 11.1.1.1

          I read his post about the timestamps. Enough for me.

          • Ed 11.1.1.1.1

            You read this because you were directed to it by a right wing blog, I’m guessing.
            Before rushing to judgment you should read all his writing on the matter.
            It appears you can be persuaded of a matter based on very little evidence.

            • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Your psychic skills fail you again.

              I read the CM timestamp fail-article because it was linked to by someone here when it first came out. Because the timestamp thing was, on the face of it, anomalous. Because I do actually look at multiple sides of a story. I just try to avoid deranged bullshit. The fact is that he clocked off immediately into smoking-gun-conspiracy-exposed BS without considering that utilitarian corridors in the same facility tend to look the same.

              But then I also look at the type of folks here who link to CM. Folks with foot-thick lead blinkers, for whom Russia can do no wrong. Not people prone to thoughtfully turning an issue over and looking at it from different angles.

              As for Bellingcat, their identity ideas seem plausible, but we’ll never know. Maybe in 40 years someone will say something in a memoir, but nobody will face justice at any level. They made it home safe.

  12. Adrian Thornton 12

    You know I have never seen this kind of obsession and outrage when Mossad assassinate whomever they like, whenever they like, indiscriminately anywhere in the world…makes you really wonder who the so called useful idiots really are…

    • Ed 12.1

      The CIA would be proud of this propaganda.

      • marty mars 12.1.1

        Seems to me like all of the spy organisations are really well below the standard of yesteryear. Maybe some old heads to teach them decent tradectaft are needed. Probably full of bureaucrats and sneaky bastards now days.

  13. Booker 13

    “Right wing anti-democracy site Wikileaks”

    Lol. So right wing and anti-democratic they publish video evidence of Reuter’s journalists being killed by US forces and huge caches of documents revealing how dodgy the US dealings in Iraq really were. No public interest there, only anti-democracy!

    • adam 13.1

      The same brigade who now bag wikileaks are the same who cheered loudly when it was publishing leaks which hurt Bush. But dare to turn the spotlight on a corrupt one of their own, and watch the hate gets unleashed.

    • Hi, Booker. You’ve perfectly illustrated why Wikileaks are right wing. Their only target is democracy.

      By focussing on the actions of governments, they function to weaken trust in democracy. You’ll note that they never attack big corporations, never release tranches of emails from polluters, never expose big business. They never rock their paymasters’ boats.

      Think it through. They’re not on our side. The release of Wkileak’s internal emails showed a rabidly right wing group of people working diligently to get Trump elected, with the support of the Russian state.

      Are these your kind of folk? I’m hoping not.

      Wikileaks know what side they’re on. They’re fleas, willing tools of capital.

      • adam 13.2.1

        Some links would be nice, as it stands – hearsay, boarding on just some stuff you made up.

        By the way did you read the DNC emails? I’d question if you really are a friend to democracy by the above misrepresentation of what went on.

      • David Mac 13.2.2

        I hadn’t considered that view Booker/TRP, thanks. A wolf in sheep’s clothing.

        It’s so easy to get caught up in the sensationalism an outfit like that are up to and overlook ‘What’s in it for them?’

        I’m not sure I’m a full-blown subscriber but it’s taken me places I haven’t been before and I like to travel.

      • Morrissey 13.2.3

        Wikileaks are right wing.

        ????

        The Democratic Party “leadership” and their deeply flawed candidate were, and are, right wing.

        To expose their villainy, as Wikileaks did so effectively, means that Wikileaks is…. right wing?

        You can’t be serious. And you’re not.

        • te reo putake 13.2.3.1

          Grab a coffee, Moz, you’re not thinking clearly. It’s not a mutually exclusive position. They can both be right wing and still not be best buds.

          Wikileaks is clearly a political organisation that acts to expose the failings of democratic institutions. They are not the least bit interested exposing the far greater evils of late stage capitalism, because they will never bite the hand that feeds.

          The leaked wikileaks emails make it very clear that they were working for the election of Donald Trump, who is also right wing. They did that in collusion to some degree with Russia, also right wing.

          There is nothing left wing in what wikileaks do. They’re not on our side.

          • Morrissey 13.2.3.1.1

            The DNC is not a democratic institution. The secret and illegal intrigues of the U.S. and U.K. governments are not democratic.

            WikiLeaks exposed all this.

            Your allegations about Russian collusion—-I note that you’re now modifying that to “collusion to some degree with Russia”—are flimsy and unsupported by evidence. Unless, of course, you trust those paragons of truth, “anonymous CIA sources.”

  14. vaughanm 14

    Hey TE REO PUTAKE, shame on you! For Truth & Accuracy I’m giving you 0/10.

    Your propaganda skills are wasted here – you need to apply for a position at the BBC. This pro-GCHQ, MI6, CIA, NSA et al dribble, looks like a cut & paste job directly from the British Bombing Corporation website. . .

  15. SPC 15

    Sure the GRU look like amateurs, but the next hit men will have a thorough on-line death before being sent abroad.

    The more interesting thing is those who refuse to belief it or who squirrel – but they do it too. If you’ve condemned one side for it, condemn the other also. Anything less leaves some on the left as one eyed anti-western critics.

    • Anne 15.1

      If you’ve condemned one side for it, condemn the other also. Anything less leaves some on the left as one eyed anti-western critics.

      QFT.

  16. Anne 16

    Russia does these things because it is profitable. The pursuit of money is the prime driver of the Putin gang. Like most corpulent capitalists, there is just one golden rule; he who has the gold makes the rules.

    What is the difference between Russia and the United States? There is no difference imo. Both of them under their current leadership are equally as bad as one another. The pursuit of all encompassing power set against a backdrop of corruption and political and economic malpractice is the name of the game. And who are their ultimate victims? Their own countrymen/women who they have beguiled with false promises and fake news stories.

    I hope however that “karma” does exist, and that both Putin and Trump – along with their respective enablers – get their just desserts in the fullness of time.

    • David Mac 16.1

      I agree Anne, violence begets violence.

      ” As I smacked my daughters bottom I declared “Don’t hit your Sister.”

    • McFlock 16.2

      I love what the USA aspired to be and has never actually met. Sometimes it gets closer than others.

      With Russia, this is as good as it gets.

      That’s the main difference at the moment, I recon.

      • Anne 16.2.1

        I love what the USA aspired to be and has never actually met.

        Yes. I do too. Imagine what a “great” country it would have been if they had lived up to their aspirations. They didn’t. In fact over the years they helped trash the lives of many, many thousands of ordinary and innocent people both in America and beyond, including individuals in allied countries such as New Zealand. I can assure you of that from personal experience.

        McCarthyism did not die with Senator Joe McCarthy.

      • Ed 16.2.2

        The first people of Africa and North America may not agree with the imperialistic genocidal aspirations of the United States.

        • McFlock 16.2.2.1

          Where are those aspirations mentioned in the Constitution or Bill of Rights?

          • Ed 16.2.2.1.1

            Better ask McFlock – he brought it up.

            • McFlock 16.2.2.1.1.1

              Go read the founding documents of the USA and think about them.
              You might become less of a dickhead.

              • Ed

                What are you talking about?
                And as for the nonsense about putinescas etc, show me one bit of evidence where Morrissey, Maui or I have shown support for Putin.
                Questioning the western propaganda machine does not equate to that.
                Did you believe the wmd lie in Iraq?
                Why haven’t you learnt from it?

                • McFlock

                  Dude, you jerks could write regular posts on the evils of western states, and we could all ignore them or comment as we see fit.

                  But you three don’t do that, do you. No. You lot see fit to deflect conversations about Russia with how bad the US is, or posts about Trump with comments about Clinton.

                  Have any of you written a post, or do you just derail other threads with irrelevancies? Because if it’s the latter, then yes: that is defending Putin.

                  • Ed

                    I lead many discussions.
                    You obviously aren’t paying attention.
                    Common themes.

                    Ukraine
                    Climate change
                    Plant based diets
                    Corbyn
                    Neoliberalism
                    Syria

                    • McFlock

                      You “lead” lol many discussions on those topics in other people’s posts and open mike.

                      Open mike fair enough. But look at the post we’re on. And look at the topics of the subthreads you’ve “led”.

                      Have the guts to write your own fucking posts rather than deflecting attention away from Putin just because other people are bad, too.

  17. Gabby 17

    I doubt if the Saddies have anything to learn from Pootie’s mob when it comes to savagery.

  18. mauī 18

    The Great George Galloway responds. As an aside it’s quite a worry that authorities have seemingly lost control of this investigation and we’re now up to speculation and drip feeding from third parties.

  19. joe90 19

    The costs of propping up his murderous mate Assad must be biting.

    This morning’s headline in Russia’s Vedomosti newspaper: “They’ve turned their backs on Putin…Russians are continuing to lose faith” in the Kremlin leader. Here’s today’s video review of the Russian press. pic.twitter.com/SDxtQrTdD3— Steve Rosenberg (@BBCSteveR) October 8, 2018

    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1049230231725383681

  20. SPC 20

    One wonders how some here would operate a news site given they see information embarrasing to Russia as warmongering, they being peace lovers and all.

    Censorship for the sake of peace? Censorship for the sake of security? Censorship of alternative opinion because it is “unwoke” or “not politically correct”?

    Well evidenced here – “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”

    • marty mars 20.1

      It really shows that some people hate their countries, their society and their communities so much they’d rather believe news stories deriding them. This is expected as our world cracks under the pressure and some, who can’t face the truth of their complicity in the world’s ills as part of ‘western’ culture, try to blame anyone other than taking responsibility and owning their part. Seems like a lot of bush’s reading storybooks for children while the actual shit is hitting the fan to me.

      • SPC 20.1.1

        In convergence, the next generation struggling with matching their predecessors in owning their own home and having a quality of life (many have poor working conditions), the economy centred around the interest of capital, governments operating within that financial system and a global market designed by and for the corporate, the voting citizen indoctrinated to compliance to their easily managed identity self-interest to support one or the other of two parties that do not challenge any of this.

        Then then there global challenges that the market cannot solve – inequality, planetary habitat risk and the inevitable rise of a non democratic nation to economic and military supremacy (China). Meanwhile the two old powers of the Cold War are throwing their marbles about. One to take advantage to pose as an equal (restoring Russian national pride) and the other, while it still has the strength to have them reach areas beyond the American continent (only 20 years after being a unilateral super power thinking to could do what it liked).

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