Show me the jobs

46 comments on “Show me the jobs ”

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1. fender 1

   5 November 2011 at 12:45 pm

   Oh please don’t let facts get involved, we can’t deal with them, we’re too busy being brainwashed by a crooked media and a PM who shows no respect for the truth. We’re too dumb to see the wood for the trees and are having too much fun admiring the forth form schoolboy sense of humour our PM possesses.
   This National Party election campaign is a farse and the continual high rating for such a pack of crooks is demoralizing and raises serious concerns about the intelligence of NZ’rs.
   • mik e 1.1

     5 November 2011 at 12:55 pm

     what about the 100,000 gone for good to Australia
     The numbers of people not receiving the Benefit because of harsh regime national pushes and the numbers that have given up looking for work that can’t receive a benefit.
     • mik e 1.1.1

       5 November 2011 at 1:04 pm

       When national put these made up figures out there they have been just wild forecasts that have been so far out of reality there a joke so this figure of 50,000 more jobs is going the same way as all the other propaganda 50,000 more jobs extrapolated will= 150,000 more unemployed and leaving for Australia!~
       Labour has through out history had much higher employment and economic Growth
       But National are perceived as better at running the economy because they are associated with business and business has a big influence over the Media because thats who pays their income.
       So National always get a better run in the Media until they finally bring the economy to its Knees. Thats when the media turn on them.
       That scenario is not far away.
2. queenstfarmer 2

   5 November 2011 at 12:51 pm

   That is very much a minority view.

   Voters back National over economy – poll
   An attack by John Key on Labour’s credibility in last night’s leaders debate comes as a new poll shows voters think the Government is doing a good job of managing the economy.

   Whether or not the Govt has “the worst economic record in generations” is a subjective thing – so obviously partisan Labour activists will say it is – and economists may argue about it over time. But what is certain is that the Govt has been operating in worst global economic conditions in generations, not to mention NZ’s worst natural disaster in generations (if not ever).

   That, I suggest, is why the polls show fair-minded Kiwis are backing the Govt on the economy.
   • KJT 2.1

     5 November 2011 at 1:01 pm

     That is a problem. Kiwi’s overseas are known for assuming people are honest until proven otherwise.

     I.E. We are a bit naive about crooked people.

     The worst economic circumstance for some time. Which is debatable, does not excuse things like a fire sale of income earning assets to National party funders.
   • Lanthanide 2.2

     5 November 2011 at 1:07 pm

     “That, I suggest, is why the polls show fair-minded Kiwis are backing the Govt on the economy.”

     Which ignores the fact that the government is only able to cope with these events as well as it has because of the previous Labour government’s deliberate intention of paying back the debt that they had inherited from the previous National government.
     • queenstfarmer 2.2.1

       5 November 2011 at 3:48 pm

       Possibly, but you do not actually know what people took into account when answering. For example my assessment, had I been asked, would take into account the decade of deficits projected to have been left by the previous Labour Govt. Other people may not share that assessment. But you cannot make a blanket claim that anything was or was not “ignored”.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1

         5 November 2011 at 3:58 pm

         “Decade of deficits”. Why are your lies so transparent? Either it’s the global economic crisis created by John Key and his enablers at Merril Lynch et al that has led to this situation (which you argue isn’t Brand Key’s fault), or it’s the Labour party. It can’t be both, so you’d better choose one, but don’t forget to factor Blinglish’s praise for Labour’s economic management into your bullshit.
         • queenstfarmer 2.2.1.1.1

           5 November 2011 at 4:33 pm

           When did I make an “it must be one or the other” argument? (I note you warning against such arguments a short time ago). And where did I argue something (what?) “isn’t Brand Key’s fault”?

           Your demand that “It can’t be both, so you’d better choose one” is an ideological approach, not a reason-based one.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1.1.1

             5 November 2011 at 5:38 pm

             Sorry, perhaps I was being too cryptic. Brand Key has consistently eschewed any responsibility for the state of the economy, citing international influences as their excuse. Labour had nine years of surplus as their track record, which National’s very own Double Dipton acknowledged was as a result of their fiscal prudence. Your feeble attempt to lay a “forecast” decade of deficits at Labour’s door? You can take that up with Double Dipton I guess.
             • freelunch …

               5 November 2011 at 6:56 pm

               Its actually in the Budget 2008 BEFU (the one signed by Michael Cullen). CASH deficits starting at $3.5 billion in 2008/09. If you bothered to actually read source documents you’d realise that.

               “Core Crown residual cash is in deficit for most of the forecast period. The cash deficits are around $3.5 billion for each forecast year from 2008/09.

               Net core Crown cash flow from operations decreases in line with movements in core Crown revenue and core Crown expenses.”

               http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/befu2008/befu08-pt4of9.pdf

               You can’t crank up spending while introducing tax cuts without something giving.
               • freelunch …

                 5 November 2011 at 7:07 pm

                 Any “good” outgoing government screws the books for the incoming one. Labour did in the early 1990s. National did in the late 1990s. Labour did again in 2008. National will do it in 2020.

                 Get with programme – it’s politics not tiddlywinks.

                 [lprent: You were banned. Changing handles doesn’t change that. Cleaning out all comments that do not have replies.

                 It is a pity as you appear to have value. But you also appear to be too stupid to learn.

                 Adding you to autospam and doubling the ban. ]
                 • Colonial Viper …

                   5 November 2011 at 9:00 pm

                   Labour did again in 2008. National will do it in 2020.

                   lolololololololololololololol

                   Labour left Bill English with NZ’s books in the best net debt position for a decade.

                   National hasn’t waited until 2020 to screw us back into debt, at a rate of $300M pw of new borrowing, they already did that.

                   Tiddlywinks indeed.
                 • freelunch …

                   6 November 2011 at 7:20 am

                   Great so I get no right of reply and my “ban” was at a time you admitted to being “grumpy” and reversed someone else’s ban for something worse than my supposed offense.

                   But your blog. I’m just trying to keep posters honest – left or right

                   [lprent: My being grumpy affects the length of ban, not the cause of getting one. It is a reason to avoid giving me cause to look at you when I am moderating. You never know exactly how much risk you are running – good for stopping people gaming the risks.

                   I guess you didn’t look at why I banned you? Why is that? Too arrogant to think that the site rules applied to you? That appears to be the case and appears to be common trait amongst those I have to ban.

                   There are many reasons why this site has gone from nothing to the largest political blog. One relies on having authors willing to write. So a high value is placed on not having them subject to direct or indirect attacks – including trying to tell them what they should write.

                   You did. It is defined as a Darwin award level of offense and deserves the harshest sentence.

                   But because your comments ad been good to that point, you merely got an educational tap. Most newbies would have gotten months for the same offense. Bash the authors facts, offer alternate explanations, point out flaws – I don’t care. Tell them what they should write or tear into them personally and you risk me noticing. I need them a damn sight more than I need you.

                   Perhaps you should read the policy and learn to abide by their rather generous limits. Then you only get to see me arguing with you rather than executing site defense on you. ]
               • Colonial Viper …

                 5 November 2011 at 9:03 pm

                 “Core Crown residual cash is in deficit for most of the forecast period. The cash deficits are around $3.5 billion for each forecast year from 2008/09.

                 That’s what Labour left National you say?

                 So how is it that National took that forecast $3.5B in annual cash deficits and heroically made it more than $15B in annual cash deficits???

                 English and Key – no plan except to borrow like drunken sailors.
             • Hami Shearlie …

               5 November 2011 at 11:01 pm

               And ask Double-Dipton to please give the taxpayers the cool half million he still owes us for being paid to live in his own house. Or did he think we’d forgotten?
               • Vicky32 …

                 6 November 2011 at 5:15 pm

                 Or did he think we’d forgotten?

                 Almost certainly! 🙂
           • bbfloyd 2.2.1.1.1.2

             6 November 2011 at 12:06 pm

             and quoting a proven tory propaganda unit, which is what the herald and their exclusive brethren in the news media amount to isn’t idealogical? spare me the pseudo intellectual double talk queeny… you’re education seems to have stalled… waste of a good mind really… shame..
   • Draco T Bastard 2.3

     5 November 2011 at 3:46 pm

     Whether or not the Govt has “the worst economic record in generations” is a subjective thing

     No it isn’t you moron. The figure and facts clearly show that this NAct government are the worst financial managers we’ve ever had.
     • Lanthanide 2.3.1

       5 November 2011 at 5:21 pm

       Because a Labour government would have magically saved NZ from the global economic crisis?

       I think Labour would have done a better job than National, but the problem is we can only look at the evidence that exists in front of us. This evidence shows that National didn’t do as bad a job as they could have.
       • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1

         5 November 2011 at 5:35 pm

         This evidence shows that National didn’t do as bad a job as they could have.

         National didn’t run the economy as badly as say, Krusty the Clown might have?

         Well then, pass marks all round.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.2

         5 November 2011 at 6:28 pm

         We can project some things:

         1.) Tax cuts – we can certainly project what would have happened to the balance sheets if NAct hadn’t decided to borrow to give their rich mates a tax cut
         2.) The Cullen fund – we can do that one too and see quite clearly that we would have been better off borrowing to keep the funding going (although, without the tax cuts we wouldn’t have needed to borrow as much).
         3.) RoNS – we can see how much we would save by not going ahead with these an putting the money into PT instead

         And there’s more where we can look at what this government did and compare it with what the other parties would have done and project out. When we do that it becomes obvious that this government has a habit of making bad decisions. In fact, I can’t think of a single decision of theirs that could be considered a good decision.
         • Lanthanide 2.3.1.2.1

           5 November 2011 at 11:02 pm

           Not much money has actually been spent on the RoNS yet. In fact even a Labour government coming in in 2014 could scrap most of them and save most of the money from being spent, assuming peak oil doesn’t derail the whole scheme anyway.

           Also the Cullen Fund has made a loss of 7.71% this year so far.
           • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.2.1.1

             6 November 2011 at 7:47 am

             Also the Cullen Fund has made a loss of 7.71% this year so far.

             The continuing (and manufactured) volatility in the global financial markets is of huge concern.

             In basic terms, the global bankster occupation has been stealing from pension funds via the use of contrived artificial volatility, political manipulation and tools like high frequency trading.

             If you look over the last year in which the Cullen Fund lost so much money, you will find that many of the major investment banks managed to achieve months of unbroken daily trading profits.

             The casino is rigged.
   • Rodel 2.4

     6 November 2011 at 10:35 am

     Subjective? That’s a keyism. High school maths would suggest otherwise.
     There is a difference between 460,000 people on benefits and 250,000.
   • Richard Down South 2.5

     7 November 2011 at 8:31 pm

     Or perhaps theyre asking people driving 100k+ cars? 😉
3. Fortran 3

   5 November 2011 at 1:42 pm

   mik e

   Many New Zealanders have left for Australia, without any benefits, and am not sure they actually understand that point (until a crises). I have heard that many Maori have taken their children away from gangs and drugs which proliferate here. You cannot get into Australia with a criminal record, not even a holiday ( in nearly all cases-you need a visa before setting out, which may get you a limited visa); this means that our better Maori going are the ones we need to keep here.
   • mik e 3.1

     5 November 2011 at 5:34 pm

     Fotran Racist generalization!Out of date narrow minded bigot.
4. Tombstone 4

   5 November 2011 at 2:18 pm

   Where are the fucking jobs Key! You demanded Labour show you the money and they have, so show some balls yourself you spineless smug bastard and show us the jobs. If it’s expected of one then it should be expected of all, especially the major players. Goff needs to zero in on Key and demand he show the job numbers and when he refuses he needs to show him up for the hypocrite that he so obviously is.
   • Tombstone 4.1

     5 November 2011 at 4:55 pm

     Just a small correction to my post – Key should be forced to explain in detail how he came about those numbers and how it is that he’s suddenly able to create thousands of jobs as though by magic. I suspect that the rationale behind all of this is quite insidious and riddled with half truths and that’s why even National supporters should have the mental fortitude to ask themselves how it is that John can create the jobs now in stark contrast to the past three years where under his leadership quite the opposite has occured. Rather than create jobs thousands have been lost. Surely that in itself must be enough for people to question why all this talk of creating thousands of jobs is suddenly achievable and couldn’t have been implemented from the beginning? It’s not as though the current world economy or even our own economy is in any better shape so it doesn’t quite stack up to me. Am I missing something
     • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

       5 November 2011 at 5:01 pm

       Well, you’ve got the substance, but you haven’t got Johnkey’s style.
5. vto 5

   5 November 2011 at 3:22 pm

   Is 59,000 double what it was last election? Wasn’t there about 50-60,000 then?
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     5 November 2011 at 4:56 pm

     There are two numbers to pay attention to, one is the number of people on the dole and the other are the unemployment numbers.

     The number of people on the dole has gone up something like 1.9x under National.

     The unber of people unemployed has gone up something like 1.5x under National.
6. pat 6

   5 November 2011 at 4:16 pm

   Its interesting that there are national politicians who are standing in electorits that wont even go to public meetings to discuss peoples views or expressions,this is nonsense,those politicians who thumb their nose at the voters deserve to have a huge loss in the election for ignoring the electoric rights,those voters need to find another party that is willing to discuss issues and then leave those politicians who ignored the call for a meeting out of their preference when voting,this would make them sit up and take notice,that the voting public are not going to be toyed with.
   • Hami Shearlie 6.1

     5 November 2011 at 11:10 pm

     If they are so proud of their record in Govt, why hide from all their fans, otherwise known as voters?
7. seeker 7

   5 November 2011 at 5:01 pm

   @queenstfarmer

   “Possibly, but you do not actually know what people took into account when answering.”

   I think John key has done a very good job of getting people to trust him – after all this is the money traders’ skillset which allows them to get the gullible to trust them so they can exploit them effectively for their client.
   John Key has now got such a mesmerised faithful followng that he can assert any falsehood to them and they will believe it without question. Even if they are presented with the real truth in black and white -or on a spread sheet, they will believe the blarney from ‘quack doctor salesman’ unkey munkey over and above anything else. Key’s backers must be so happy with him. He has learned well from Ashcroft’s dirty tricks department and yet can still appear “so nice, funny and blokey”.
   The words “anti” and “Christ” spring to mind as a warning.

   Finally can anyone tell me if Key’s assertion that “we have created 53,000 ” new jobs over the last two years is fict or faction. If fact how, where, what……???
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     5 November 2011 at 5:30 pm

     Sure we’ve created 53,000 new jobs, its just that 112,000 were lost in the same period.

     (net job losses since National took power = 59,000).
     • seeker 7.1.1

       5 November 2011 at 6:45 pm

       Cheers CV. Wanting to verify all key’s magical numerical sayings now. I know he’s a numbers whizz – I just want to appreciate just how much of a whizz he is.

       So at the moment Key says ‘we have created 53000 jobs in two years’ means, (without his famous positive/misleading spin) we still need to find the 60,000 more which we helped to lose by cutting jobs to save money to pay for huge tax cuts for some of you (ie.our favourites.) and thereby placing these people on the demoralising , poverty enhancing dole? Great way to run a country! Demoralise, starve and undermine it’s people .

       However, I remember Key saying on The Press debate last Tuesday something like ‘you don’t know how much I’ve had to fight the right to save you from even worse things- things could have been even worse for you……’ meaning not just Goff, to whom he was sort of speaking, but us his listening victims/citizens.

       He really seemed to be appealing to our understanding of how hard it’s been for him. But if he hadn’t let the right use his beguiling, charming, fabricating, skillset to get them into power- none of us, little innocent him includedd, would have been going through this ghastly Nact nightmare for the last three years, and he’s still trying for another 3 to blight our lives.

       Do the honourable thing John, don’t let the horrible right use you anymore. You’re not Jerry Maguire. Please go to Hawaii now John, just go (promise we’ll lobby for a star in your own name to be put on Hollywood’s walk of fame – between Tom Cruise and Peter Jackson, howzat? )
8. pat 8

   5 November 2011 at 10:12 pm

   Every media outlet is praising key and putting down Goff, its rather frustrating trying to find something decent to read about,Key on a pedestal on every online paper even on tv,you cant get away from it,has he bought space and told them what to print and say? there are many issues the media should be taking key and english to task on and it just doesn’t happen.
   Key’s attack on Goff in ch ch over ‘show us the money’ was planned,nats advisors and minders knew the figures were not completed and had to be signed off,so in key’s notes this is what he had to do,people out there blamed Goff,its so damn annoying,Key the murdoch of nz media.
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     5 November 2011 at 10:33 pm

     The fight back from Goff should have been “Labour’s policies are fully costed and that detail is in an upcoming launch. Sorry John, we don’t release our policy for your convenience, we do it at ours.”

     When Key continued to press

     “John, you’re just wasting the audience’s time now. We don’t release our policy for your convenience, and the reason you want to talk about Labour policy is because National has no plan of its own.”
     • Bazar 8.1.1

       5 November 2011 at 11:16 pm

       “Sorry John, we don’t release our policy for your convenience, we do it at ours.””

       And the obvious follow up is to point out its actually the voters who are inconvenienced by such a late showing, if there is anything to show at all.

       In fact that statement shows an incredible amount of arrogance. And while labour voters might find it satisfying, its the swing voters he needs to convince and arrogance like that is probably not helpful.

       The second statement isn’t ideal either.
       It has Goff presuming to speak for the audience, provides no retort to whatever Key’s statement was, and shows a Labour unwilling to talk about their policies.

       Those are not vote winning moves.
       • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1

         5 November 2011 at 11:36 pm

         And the obvious follow up is to point out its actually the voters who are inconvenienced by such a late showing, if there is anything to show at all.

         Bullshit.

         What voters are inconvenienced by is a National Party completely bereft of a plan for the future, and ducking hard questions on their own numbers (where are the 170,000 new jobs?) by using pointless distraction tactics.

         John Key is basically trying to sit on the ball and run the clock down on Labour.

         Those are not vote winning moves.

         From you, this is high praise I’m hitting my mark.
         • Bazar 8.1.1.1.1

           6 November 2011 at 2:15 am

           “From you, this is high praise I’m hitting my mark.”

           Well done Viper, you have seen though my cleverly concealed attempt at steering you down the rigthwing path.

           Indeed it is in Goffs best interest to come to a debating show, and when asked a questions he feels he shouldn’t have to answer, not answer at all.
           You obviously already know that when publicly debating, its more important to do things your way, rather then to win the audience over to your way/side of thinking.

           I shall be looking forward to any other sage teachings you can give for Goff this election month with abated breath.
           • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1.1

             6 November 2011 at 7:38 am

             😀 lol mr transparent
     • Rodel 8.1.2

       6 November 2011 at 10:42 am

       Absolutely spot on comment!
       He can still say that.
9. randal 9

   5 November 2011 at 10:48 pm

   go back to post one and fenders assertion that we have a crooked media and then you realise that no matter what we say here the media are bent and in thrall to the tories. It is an uphill struggle all the way but the people of new zealand will boot them out this time and opt for a fair and honest government.

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