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Steven Joyce is a pillock

Written By: - Date published: 7:16 pm, August 2nd, 2014 - 131 comments
Categories: grant robertson, national, same old national, Steven Joyce - Tags:

steven joyce idiot

I know at the Standard that we try to have a civilised debate about current events and allow all points of view to be expressed.  I also prefer to discuss the merits of issues and I agree with Labour’s positive campaign for this election.

But let me say this clearly.  Steven Joyce is a pillock.  He is that bad that I am beginning to think that Judith Collins would be the best leader for National after Key goes.

If you want evidence then watch the interview this morning’s debate with Grant Robertson on TV3’s The Nation.

Joyce was rude, interrupted incessantly, refused to let others express an opinion and laughed like a Hyena.

Grant Robertson did remarkably well, gave Joyce space and then pointed out that Joyce was refusing to allow a proper debate of the issues.

There was a commercial break and then things improved.  Obviously the riot act was read to Joyce and equal uninterrupted time was allowed to both parties, at least for a while.

This video should be played as often as possible.  It will cement National’s arrogant born to rule reputation that after this display it clearly deserves.

Edit: Apparently during the break Stephen Joyce said to Grant Robertson “you are just an angry little man” and Robertson replied “get out of my face”.  Joyce’s understanding of reality is, well, weird …

131 comments on “Steven Joyce is a pillock ”

  1. Philj 1

    xox
    He can’t be a pillock, he’s the best the Nats have got! Sad, but GW Bush got elected.

    • BLiP 1.1

      The fact that he’s supposedly “the best the Nats have got” is hardly evidence of Steven Joyce not being a pillock. The more likely reason for his irrational behaviour on “The Nation” is that he was laying down the “xenophobia” meme in advance of the public learning that National Ltd™ has just handed over conservation land to Shanghai Pengxin.

      Fuckers.

  2. Steve W 2

    Joyce is a business man. They typically abhore democracy. Joyce insisting on being on the party list only is a demonstration of his aversion to fronting up to Everyman. He would be a horrendous leader of the National Party. They would have to have a death wish to make him leader.

  3. srylands 3

    I wouldn’t say he was rude. I think he was expressing mild frustration at the xenophobia being expressed around land sales. He is only human.

    Anyway, he will probably be the PM in 2016 so best get used to him.

    BTW it is a little ironic you whinging about “rudeness”. As I point out incessantly, many commentators are rude to me here all the time. It is simply part of left culture. They can’t help it. So just because Joyce was mildly frustrated does not make him rude. You should get some perspective.

    • mickysavage 3.1

      I wouldn’t say he was rude. I think he was expressing mild frustration at the xenophobia being expressed around land sales. He is only human.

      He interrupted Robertson from the start even before Robertson had a chance to talk about anything. This was not frustration. It was a planned attack to stop the opposition from being heard.

      • felix 3.1.1

        I agree it was deliberate and I think Joyce actually believed he was doing a good job of it.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1

          Joyce would have been coached through this.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1

            Yep, all the RWNJ politicians are.

          • Dumrse 3.1.1.1.2

            Better a bit of coaching than continually stumbling and mumbling.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Pfft. The Left has Captain Mumblefuck for that, and he’s doing pretty well now he’s a bit more focused.

              I especially enjoyed the bits towards the end where you could hear Joyce making little moaning noises, half-formed words and lip-bites, as though it had dawned on him how he was coming across and yet not quite able to contain it.

              Poetry 😆

      • geoff 3.1.2

        I think Joyce probably coached Simon Bridges before that Campbell Live interview.

    • felix 3.2

      There was no xenophobia expressed. If you think there was it’s probably because all you could hear was Joyce yelling “xenophobia” over the top of everyone.

      There were three people in the “discussion” and ONE of the talked non-stop over the whole thing.

      If you don’t think that’s rude it’s probably because you’re as big a prick as Joyce is.

    • McFlock 3.3

      Whereas you seem to not be able to help being a hypocrite.

      Joyce is as big a jerk as you, and that’s saying something.

    • Pascals bookie 3.4

      Given how closely Joyce worked on the Brash campaign for National, where Brash was going on about immigrants “spitting in the street” and stuff, nah I don’t reckon he was upset about any xenophobia he perceived.

    • tricledrown 3.5

      Xenophobia yeah right so we sell land to china but they won,t sell any to us .
      Their not making anymore land the worlds population is still heading up to unsustainable levels.
      once we sell land to the Chinese there is no way they are going to let it go as they are smarter than the rwnjs that run this country for a quick short term buck , the wheels are falling off the rock star economy because National are relying on a cyclical commodity boom.
      While China is thinking long term buying anything it needs to keep its economy growing long term while brain fade Key is only worried about winning the next election at all costs and lining up his Knighthood so he can retire to Hawaiikey and pick his 5eyed spy boneass.
      5eyedspyland how much of a boneass are you taking to undermine democracy in New Zealand!

      • mpledger 3.5.1

        When ever China wants anything from us they reduce the demand for our milk, the milk prices tumble and the politicians go nuts and give them anything. The recent low prices for milk is China saying “if you don’t sell that land to us, we’re going to stop buying your milk”.

        We don’t need a Key as prime minister who bends over backwards to benefit the Americans and the Chinese – we need someone who can actually play their game and win. And friggin diversify our exports so we can’t be held over a barrel like this.

    • well..y’see..miserylands..

      ..yr vile randian/far-right political beliefs are far ‘ruder’ than any words used against you could be..

      ..fascists are always big on mannered-politeness..eh..?

      ..and you’d like a good crisp uniform..eh..?

      ..neatly-trimmed lawn-edges..

      ..house like a nana-house..all doilies and recently-vacuumed..?

      ..am i warm..?

    • Weepus beard 3.7

      A future prime minister would not be caught dead putting on a display like that and would need to read off their notes. A future prime minister would know their stuff.

    • emergency mike 3.8

      “BTW it is a little ironic you whinging about “rudeness”. As I point out incessantly, many commentators are rude to me here all the time.”

      Yeah, but that’s because you’re blatant, lame, idiotic sock puppet distraction tr0ll on a blog. As opposed to Robertson who is deputy Labour leader trying to have a rational discussion on a TV show. Not quite the same thing if you fink about it.

      “It is simply part of left culture. They can’t help it.”

      Uh uh, because there’s no rabid lefty hating culture over at whalespew, that nexus of polite, open, bipartisan debate.

      “So just because Joyce was mildly frustrated does not make him rude.”

      It’s the constant sniping comments while Robertson was speaking that made him rude. He didn’t look remotely frustrated. More like he was enjoying being rude. Having a good ol’ time.

    • Rodel 3.9

      “mildly frustrated?”
      Been reading a bit of Frank Luntz have we?

    • Draco T Bastard 3.10

      I wouldn’t say he was rude.

      This coming from the person who’s always complaining about how rude people are to him.

      It is simply part of left culture.

      No, it’s part of the RWNJ culture as you’ve just proved by being a rude fucken arsehole and defending the rudeness of Joyce.

      I think he was expressing mild frustration at the xenophobia being expressed around land sales.

      There was no xenophobia, only the logical thing to do to protect NZ’s interests – stop selling our wealth to foreigners.

    • Foreign waka 3.11

      NZ is waiting for a government that is looking after them in the first instance and this has nothing to do with xenophobia. It is actually the job that the public employed them to do and pay through their nose via taxes. You seem to forget that we are not talking about a corporation that wants to deal in accordance to the limits that the law can be stretched to and grey areas exploited. We are talking about a cabinet that is suppose to be answerable to the wider population. Looking at the statements of Mr Joyce – you could have fooled me.

    • David H 3.12

      Oh horseshit. He started from the outset shouting and trying to be, and succeeding, the loudest in the room. Anything of substance come out of his mouth? NO

    • Liberal Realist 3.13

      Maybe people born and brought up on Planet Key (such as shills like yourself) think that Joyce’s conduct was just ‘mild frustration’… What a unpleasant place ‘Planet Key’ must be….

      Meanwhile the rest of us born and brought up in the real world think this sort of conduct is beyond rude, more like ‘disrespectful bullying’ with a good dose of Tory hubris.

      Try harder spylands.

    • Vaughan 3.14

      srylands said: “. . .He is only human. . .”

      Please submit conclusive evidence of this!

  4. Weepus beard 4

    Jaysus, what a shit show. That was embarrassing.

  5. Kat 5

    “you don’t invest in railway lines that nobody uses”

    This man is knowingly complicit in the economic sabotage of new Zealand.

    Or, he is, truly ‘an idiot’.

    Or both.

  6. emergency mike 6

    Key has set the example for casually bullshitting through a debate, but Collins, Joyce, Brownlee, Bridges, Parata, Bennett & co don’t have his knack for doing it with a ‘not bovvered’ easy going manner. All they know is an arrogant bullying STFU style.

    It goes to show how much National needs Key. He’s the jokey blokey laughing smiling front man they need to protect their image from what would otherwise be a monolithic sea of smarmy arrogance. Once Key goes, a significant portion of National voters will think twice about voting for a gang of uniformly self-impressed wankers.

  7. Nordy 7

    I agree MS.

    It was an appalling ‘performance’ by Joyce in so many respects.

    The lasting impression was of a child who for so long had his own way, suddenly being expected to behave.

    I’m sure it would be very informative to see/hear what occured during the break.

    I was impressed with Grant’s composure and tactical nouse to allow Joyce’s arrogance to ‘shine’, but at the same time keep to his message and the policy presciption that Labour will bring to the serious economic issues facing the regions.

    It was as if Joyce had forgotten he wasn’t in the Hosue and therefore he wasn’t ‘protected’ by the absolute disgrace that is the Speaker.

    It would make a useful training video of what not to do when you are the Minister and you want to persuade the voting public to let you continue to be Minister.

    • Tamati 7.1

      It was a pretty pathetic performance by Joyce, but I doubt he’ll care. The only people watching these shows on Saturday mornings are political junkies who already know who they’re voting for.

      • Ergo Robertina 7.1.1

        It’s like Parliament though – few people watch or attend, but it has a big effect on party morale, especially now heading into electioneering mode.

    • georgecom 7.2

      I thought Joyce was totally owned by Robertson. Maybe Joyce was not expecting it however he quickly found himself on the back foot. Robertson had wonderful one liners time and again to negatively frame whatever Joyce said. Joyce found himself being reframed and outframed time and again. Rarely was he able to control the pace and focus of the debate, that was what he certainly would have been wanting to do before the interview started. Robertson well owned him

  8. felix 8

    I counted around 60 interruptions from Joyce in the first 10 mins alone. That’s 1 every 10 seconds – including one where he talked over the presenter at full volume for a full consecutive 10 seconds as she was addressing the camera.

    The man is a fucking child.

    • karol 8.1

      Joyce started the interruptions, but then Robertson did a lot of interrupting and talking over Joyce afterwards.

      However, talking over others is a Nat MO, and Robertson did need to hold his own. When Robertson did talk back and over Joyce, Joyce got increasingly nasty and arrogant – as if he’s not used to being challenged.

      Robertson listened quietly to Joyce’s first answer. Then when Robertson got his first question, Joyce kept making comments over the top of him.

      It’s a difficult balance to keep – not putting up with the Nats constantly interrupting and talking over the opposition, while not looking like the opposition are just as bad at interrupting and talking over.

      I noticed on 3 News that it was reported as Robertson and Joyce being as bad as each other.

      More than the interrupting, Joyce’s manner was pretty awful – arrogant, sneering at Labour, dismissive, smug, condescending, disparaging of Labour and Robertson, without making a significant policy point… all of those sort of things.

      • Weepus beard 8.1.1

        Seriously, I don’t think anyone impartial could view them being as bad as each other.

        Mercifully, Joyce didn’t bring out a clanger like Mr John Key did when he described someone’s red shirt as being “gay”, or mincing up the runway for Air New Zealand.

        It won’t be far off if the Nats find themselves under more pressure.

        • Lanthanide 8.1.1.1

          “or mincing up the runway for Air New Zealand.”

          It was the rugby world cup (remember that?) uniforms he was showing off.

      • mickysavage 8.1.2

        Robertson had the choice of saying nothing and looking weak or responding. It is a really fine line. I thought he actually measured it right.

        As for anyone thinking that they were as bad as each other …

        • karol 8.1.2.1

          I tried to look at it objectively, noting who was doing the interrupting and talking over – on that characteristic, Robertson did give about as good as he got… though joyce started it.

          In terms of personal style and manner – Joyce was pretty bullish, arrogant, and awful, and it did look a bit like he was attacking the smaller man with specs.

          • mickysavage 8.1.2.1.1

            The interesting question is how should Labour respond to this sort of situation in the future. I actually think that a more nuanced passive response may be best.

            • karol 8.1.2.1.1.1

              Well, that is a difficult one – it’s a fine line. I guess they need to be assertive and not allow the Nats to keep interrupting and talking over them. And also not allow them to keep on with long winded spin and mis-truths.

              It also requires a good interviewer/moderator to not allow them to get away with it.

              Above all, the opposition candidates/MPs need to keep calm and keep making their main points.

              Joyce let himself get rattled and showed his arrogance – he let his reasoned/able mask slip when he was challenged.

              • Clemgeopin

                “Joyce let himself get rattled’

                I think he, along with Key, probably had a sleepless night knowing that this VERY HUGE land sale to a foreign entity which got exposed is a game changer for this election. People overwhelmingly opposed the power company asset sales. Now these stupid Nat idiots have gone arrogantly ahead with this sale with absolutely no respect for us, the people or the country’s long term interest. I think he, along with Key and most Nats know that they have now lost this election. I think it is THAT which rattled him.

                • Clemgeopin

                  I also think that the Nats wanted this sale secretly finalised quickly before the election because I suspect that the Nats are sensing that they will lose.

            • AmaKiwi 8.1.2.1.1.2

              Demand Oxford Union debating rules.

              In Parliament MPs are told how many minutes they have.

              End of fucking story.

              This was NOT a debate. It was a brawl.

    • srylands 8.2

      You are losing perspective. Joyce is one of the great moderates of National, and as leader will maintain the solid grip on the centre left that Key has established. A real possibility is that Labour will lose both the 2014 and 2017 elections, and post 2020 we will have a National-Labour coalition with Joyce as PM and Kelvin Davis or Jacinda as Deputy PM.

      This scenario would establish stable government, and consign the green taliban to the dust bin.

      • Weepus beard 8.2.1

        If that display was moderate, then I’d hate to see aggressive.

        • miravox 8.2.1.1

          Yep, Weepus beard. A person can’t be moderate with all that aggressive finger pointing going on. Turn the sound off and you can still tell he’s an aggressive bully boy with no intention to hear any other views.

      • mickysavage 8.2.2

        He may be a moderate but he is an arrogant pillock. So who are the extremists?

      • karol 8.2.3

        The Green Taliban…? seriously? That is some total and fantastical mis-representation.

        The Taliban and the Greens have about as much in common as Ghandi and US private militias.

        • Grumpy 8.2.3.1

          They have a hatred of Israel in common……….

          • felix 8.2.3.1.1

            Nope, that’s not true either. Find one example – just one, Grumpy – of anyone speaking for the Greens expressing “hatred of Israel”.

            Fucking liar.

            ps you’ve been advocating mass murder of children lately Grumpy, so make it a good one eh?

          • karol 8.2.3.1.2

            The Green Party is anti-violence as a means of conflict resolution. It’s in their charter.

            Kennedy Graham laid out the reasoning for the Green party stance on Gaza last week. He puts their position firmly in the context of international law. There’s no hatred there. Only a desire to see the end of the killing and a determination to find a solution based on logic and international law.

            His conclusion:

            It seems that, on the basis of either of the two arguments, the firing of rockets by Hamas and the retaliatory rain of death and destruction both violate their respective legal obligations. Each side has its responsibilities.

            But the huge asymmetry in casualties would be a factor in any legal judgement of state responsibility or individual leadership liability under international criminal law.
            […]
            Two principles – the right of self-defence and the obligation of proportionality / discrimination – derive from customary international law. Does one over-ride the other? No. Do they exist, side-by-side? Yes. Does the latter act as an imperative constraint on the former? Yes.

          • Foreign waka 8.2.3.1.3

            If you want to defend Israel, defend the faith and you will find that there is no room for killing – full stop.

      • Clemgeopin 8.2.4

        Well done srylands. You have two good qualities: You make me laugh, but also make me wonder why I am wasting my time! But hey, you have every right to express your point of view!

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.5

        You are losing perspective. Joyce is one of the great moderates of National, and as leader will maintain the solid grip on the centre left that Key has established

        Poor old Shitlands, tasked with making a silk purse.

      • Lanthanide 8.2.6

        Wow, and you wonder why you don’t get any respect around here?

        Either you’re clueless, or deliberately trolling.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.6.1

          He’s S Rylands, a merchant of faith-based right-wing policy proposals, and he’s frightened now his market fundamentalist dogma is on the wane. It clouds his mind.

          Stiff upper lip Rylands old chap, no blubbing.

      • Jilly Bee 8.2.7

        C’mon srylands, or should I call you Steve? Sheesh I nearly choked on a bloody good glass of Sauv Blanc when I first read your comment and had to clean up my keyboard and desktop. I don’t wish to spend my energy on a long rebuttal of your hypothesis – I’ll just quote that rather volatile tennis player of a few years ago – John McEnroe; ‘you cannot be serious’.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.8

        You are losing perspective.

        Nope, we’ve got the perspective just fine – National are out to fuck ov er NZ for their own personal gain. The rich have been doing this for at least 5000 years and it always brings about the destruction of the civilisation that they screw over.

        Joyce is one of the great moderates of National

        Psychopaths are never moderate.

        This scenario would establish stable government

        No, that would be the death knell for NZ. National really are that bad and they’re getting worse.

      • Foreign waka 8.2.9

        If this is to pass, NZ would finally be a oligarchy. I hope you are aware of that?

      • Crunchtime 8.2.10

        Srylands = fantasy lands.

    • Clemgeopin 8.3

      May be he is [deleted]

      • karol 8.3.1

        Please. You are doing older women a major disservice there.

        • Clemgeopin 8.3.1.1

          Point taken. Comment deleted.

          • karol 8.3.1.1.1

            Thanks, Clem. It looks like your deletion has thrown out the nested numbering. I’ll delete the words from the comment and restore it so the numbering remains stable.

  9. Weepus beard 9

    I’ve got no love for him. As the minister for economic development he has already presided over the swift death of my industry. What else am I to do as a voter?

  10. Clemgeopin 10

    I will be positive. I say Steven Joyce will be the very BEST National party leader EVER ! Keep him on! He is more charming and sweeter than the Oravida milk spoon. Joyce, oh, Joyce, what joy! Even The Exclusive Brethren like and trust him! Remember that eye rolling episode? This morning on The Nation Joyce was so intense and so worked up, as if someone had just pulled a rug under his feet, that I was thoroughly and deeply engrossed watching his unstoppable interjections, quivering lumpy lips, hissy fitfulls of splattering spit, confused furious face, fuming nostrils, dancing cheeks and chins that whatever he did say did not register much with me at all! But hey, who cares! He is good. Very very good for the Nats! Crosby Textor have trained him exceedingly well for their millions of dollars worth of profitable portfolio! He comes across as a faithful lieutenant of the Team Hash Key loyal cadre. Nats after all, are ‘working’ for our own as well as the foreign deserving wealthy! Let us give Joyce a tick. A very big tick! Send Key back to Hawaii. Joyce for PM!

  11. Rodel 11

    Joyce is New Zealand’s version of Sean Hannity with a bit less finesse.Must not let anyone else have an opinion and must never never let them use facts that differ from my facts.

    Crosby Textor’s Linguis interruptus?

  12. local Kiwi. 12

    Pity Steven Joyce has not kept listening & working with anyone who tried to work with him.

    A group of us were involved with Steven Joyce as part of a community group during our campaign to get the Napier Gisborne rail service patronage increased during the two years between 2009 in 2011.

    This was to prove to him when a two year trial time was given to the four regional rail services that were under threat of closure due to Steven Joyce heavily leaning on Kiwirail to “pull up your socks or else” in 2009.

    The threat which forced Kiwirail to come out with a 10yr turnaround plan that was proposing a closure up to four rail branch lines, namely, North Auckland, Stratford, Wairarapa, & Gisborne lines.

    After repeated requests we successfully brokered a community representation where five of us were to meet with him in Napier in March 2011.

    He listened and was seemingly intent on offering some help, during the half hour and received documentation from us to respond to later.

    The letter of response four months later was more supportive of our efforts to prove the rail service was viable as we had spent 18 months fleshing out countless customers for increased freight levels and gave him the evidence.

    He in his letter warmly offered support and recommended we continue to work with Kiwirail on this and also stated that as Kiwirail was given funding to buy new locomotives & wagons we would be able to expect increased amounts of new rolling stock to handle the increased freight for the line.

    We kept up solid communication with Steven Joyce and all other transport related cabinet Ministers and John Key also.
    At the end of the 2011/2012 financial year we had increased the freight levels 63% and several large customers were lining up to greatly increase further freight levels we predicted to easily reach 100 000 tonnes in the next 12 months. This was Kiwirails “breakeven point” of which we were surpassing and had ready waiting customers to vastly increase freight from there.

    Then came the March 25th 2012 storm that washed out a section of the rail line between Gisborne south to Mahia, due to deferred repairs to culverts and drains.

    It was at this point that the Government turned the screw on the communities of Gisborne & H.B and left them with no service at all and a list of excuses as to why they found it uneconomic to repair.

    Steven Joyce was until that time well respected by us and all others we worked with, and since then John Key replaced him with Gerry Brownlee as Minister of Transport and Steven Joyce has turned his back on HB and Gisborne so how can anyone respect these Ministers now after all this as they put up posters all over the communities saying “National is working for you”?

    We hope he works for us all again to prove the earlier support he pledged in our letter we hold today.

    Many will not vote for them for this otherwise, and I told Gerry Brownlee when we met him in Gisborne April 2014.

    All it would have taken was a poultry $4 million to have got the service up and running then when we were riding the wave of rail success, and what have these communities gotten since their sale of their assets?
    Broken promises that is what they have got.

    Like Gisborne mayor Meng Foon and HB mayors said to Government, “fix the line” but are they listening?

    • mickysavage 12.1

      Thanks local. Rail lines are fascinating things. You build them or you improve the rail service and good things happen. The problem is they are community benefits. Things improve but some individuals may not make a profit.

    • RedBaronCV 12.2

      Thank you Good to see the back story on this and I’m upset your efforts to build a stronger profitable community good were trodden on.

  13. Beryl Streep 13

    Grant Robertson definitely came across as the better man in that debate and I say that as a likely Nats voter this year. Steven Joyce came across as rude, flippant and arrogant.

    Did you notice how he used the secondary camera to give a conceited look straight to the viewers after every thing he said? The producers cottoned on to this after the first few minutes and stopped using that camera.

    To be honest though, I mostly agree with Joyce’s side of the argument but if I was an impartial viewer then I definitely would have tuned out to him due to his arrogance.

    Voters need to hear both sides of political arguments and make their own mind up. When one side is talking over the other side it makes that difficult. He does the same thing in his radio slot with Annette King and it annoys me to no end. I’m not sure where he’s getting the advice that it’s a good strategy because it really isn’t.

    • Lanthanide 13.1

      He desperately tried the same thing with David Parker a few weeks ago on Morning Report, they had DP on first, then brought Joyce on and implied to him he’d get unfettered right of reply, then DP came back and it really threw Joyce for a loop, he tried to do his talk-over tactic but DP wasn’t having any of it. Was a very good performance by DP and showed a clearly rattled Joyce.

      • Beryl Streep 13.1.1

        I get the feeling Steven Joyce is listening to his own advice and modelling his media persona on Rob Muldoon.

        The difference is that Muldoon had his own entrenched group of supporters (Rob’s Mob). He built this support base over a long political career as Finance Minister, Deputy PM, Opposition Leader and then PM.

        Steven Joyce has none of that. There’s no “Joyce’s Voices” fan club cheering him on from the sidelines. He’s just a two term list MP who’s now a cabinet minister for some reason and acts like an arrogant pillock on national radio and TV.

        Someone in the Nats should tell him to pull his head in, he’s doing them no favours.

        • Clemgeopin 13.1.1.1

          No, no no! Don’t tell him to put his head in! After Key, Joyce is their (and our) best hope!

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.2

          Beryl, wake up. Steven Joyce embodies National Party values, his performance was a perfect expression of everything they represent.

          You enable them. Shame on you.

        • georgecom 13.1.1.3

          yup, I am thinking he is turning into a taller Muldoon. Looking more and more like Robbie as the days go bye.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      Voters need to hear both sides of political arguments and make their own mind up. When one side is talking over the other side it makes that difficult.

      Which is why the RWNJs do it. Their own arguments don’t stand up to daylight and so they try to drown out their opposition by yelling over them.

      I’m not sure where he’s getting the advice that it’s a good strategy because it really isn’t.

      Every single PR firm that supports right-wing candidates will be giving that advice.

      • Colonial Viper 13.2.1

        And the obvious detail. There are usually far more than 2 sides to any political argument, as Labour and National are slowly learning.

    • Foreign waka 13.3

      Yes, and behavior like this is a sign that he feels that playing by the rules will not give him the price he desires. It also says a lot about the National Party’s belief where they are at rather then the spin of the media.

  14. anker 14

    Definitely need a strategy with Joyce. One of Joyce’s strategies is to laugh at Labour or whoever he is debated with and this attempt to ridicule is part of the arrogance but the smoke screen to divert attention from their terrible policies.

    • AmaKiwi 14.1

      Oxford Union debating rules.

      Each debater gets an allotted time for an uninterrupted reply.

      This was NOT a debate. It was a brawl.

      They are not allowed to do it in Parliament. Labour should not allow it in television debates either.

  15. But let me say this clearly. Steven Joyce is a pillock.

    You’re too kind – having just watched it, I’d go for “obnoxious arsehole.” Watching him ignore the poor woman tasked with trying to get him to act like he was fit for polite company, I was surprised they didn’t just turn his mic off.

    • Clemgeopin 15.1

      She should have pepper sprayed him! THAT would have been such a memorable WORLD news! Imagine the twitter feeds and parodies!

    • AmaKiwi 15.2

      Unfortunately they did not appear to have individual microphones. In the future Labour should demand they do and demand microphones be cut off when the other speaker is using her/his allotted time to answer the question put by the moderator.

      This was a shameful abuse of the term “debate.”

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.1

        Yep. If they can’t behave themselves I’m sure there’s a separate sound studio they can be confined to 🙂

  16. Clemgeopin 16

    Saw this interesting Steven Joyce analysis by a world economist and economic forecaster on TV3, cursesy of a poster named Steeve.
    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1197/9964/original.jpg !

  17. CeeH 17

    So proud of Grant Robertson – stayed on course and never waivered. Steven Joyce with all his weak and pathetic interjecting couldnt overpower him. Also noticed Grant wasnt afraid to face him or look him in the eye – sometimes a good way to deal with bullies and Steven Joyce to me came across as one. Your message is heard Mr GR – loud and clear – yes we do not want our land sold and yes we want better value for New Zealand and all who dwell or visit here! The Nats hear it too but choose to be tone deaf. Mr GR when you go into debate or any Labour MP or advocate and especially David Cunliffe we are with you – all the way – rise or fall. Between National and Labour – Labour is the party who thinks and hopes for ALL people. National’s neo-liberal thinking sux!
    A song I would like to contribute to the million out there who did not vote – a song about ‘High Hopes’

    And yes I am a Nutini fan which I do not apologise for, but I do apologise in advance if I should not be posting stuff like this here – much respect to the standard authors and contributors.

  18. Stuart Munro 18

    It may be that folk attacked the wrong leg of Sorrylands assertion there – moderate being a relative term and National neo-liberalism ranging from extreme, through raging (Joyce), to fanaticism (that silly boy Bill who can never balance a budget). So there is a sense in which Joyce is moderate.

    But he is not great.

    A couple more performances like that and NZ’s MSM will call time on the Gnats extended media honeymoon.

  19. felix 19

    I reckon most muggles would be pretty shocked to find out that this is the guy Key has had running New Zealand for the last 6 years.

  20. Brian 20

    I found the fact that he was almost continually pointing and wagging his finger annoying. He tried and failed the smarmy “talk over the top” thing, coupled with interjections about something irrelevant from the past, and failed. He just came across as rude. Seeking out the camera after he thought he had “scored” looked disingenuous too.

  21. One Anonymous Bloke 21

    A fantastic performance by Joyce. He’s definitely the man to lead National once Dear Leader has been used up. They’re in safe hands for sure.

  22. anker 22

    OAB @ 21……lol ++

  23. Delia 23

    Joyce is living proof that once John Key heads back to Hawaii, the National govt will not be back in power for at least twenty years.

  24. irascible 24

    Fully expect the Joyce tactic to be used by the National Party hacks from Key down wards through out the campaign. The spin will be that this demonstrates strong leadership and positive policy even though neither of which will be on display.

  25. vto 25

    Not surprised to an entire post about Joyce then.

    Steven Joyce is a wanker, an arrogant tosspot wanker, or as you put it, a pillock.

    That was unbelievable by Joyce.

    Child-like.

    • Hami Shearlie 25.1

      It really was fascinatingly awful, the worst “trainwreck” (lol)!!! – Joyce was rattled before Grant Robertson said anything at all – He must have been awake the night before, rueing the day the Nats shafted poor old Colon Craig – Old “Col” got his own back, and the Nats have been “out-natted” by NZ’s answer to Frank Spencer!

  26. TheContrarian 26

    Yah, Joyce is a complete mutant. What a horrible shit-show.

    Grant Robertson however, I really like that guy. He has future leader, if not PM, written all over.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 26.1

      Joyce is the best the National Party can offer, which is why Dear Leader had to be parachuted into the role in the first place.

  27. Hypo Krite 27

    Didnt see the interview but the word xenophobia has been kicked around.

    Speaking of which, didn’t Key just recently bang on about Tonga taking low interest loans (better rates than Western Banks) from the Chinese?

    http://fijione.tv/nz-wont-bail-out-pacific-says-key/:

    “If they take loans from China, as we say about the same thing about any loans they might take, look in the end you got to recognise that New Zealand does not bail out other loans that you might take from another nationality as long as you are comfortable with that, as long as your lenders are comfortable, then that’s fine

    JK

    The Tongan prime minister, Lord Tu’ivakano, says Tonga is not going to turn down loans that are much more affordable than those offered by commercial banks”

    Whats the word I am looking for?????

  28. dave 28

    if hes the best national has got no wonder they mismanaged the economy !arrogant out of touch born to rule do you know who iam types !they must go !

  29. repateet 29

    Joyce usually speaks in sober tones which makes what he is saying sound plausible, reasoned and well thought out.
    Often though what he actually says is nonsense or at best questionable. He acts studious and sounds studious and the interviewers let him get away it with thinking he is studious.
    He is matter-of-factly stating rubbish and propaganda in an authoritative, calm way knowing the interviewers and media won’t challenge him and that many of the dumb audience will be sitting there thinking “Gee, he knows what he’s on about.”
    In the political sense and context, he is a creep in Rolf’s clothing.

  30. Liberal Realist 30

    I think ‘Ignorant Fucktard Bully’ would be more appropriate.

    1. Joyce constantly interrupting Roberston in the first segment.
    2. Joyce constantly ignoring the host, talking over Lisa and Grant.
    3. Joyce making up figures to support his arguments as he talks over Robertson.

    I wonder if Joyce interrupts his boss like he did both Lisa and Grant, during caucus meetings? Doubt it…

    • Clemgeopin 30.1

      Being such a pillock, probably interrupts while making love too!

      • fdx 30.1.1

        What a hideous image. Somehow I cannot ever imagine Joyce whispering sweet nothings into the ear of his lover. In reality it would be more akin to a stag in rutting season.

        • adam 30.1.1.1

          Joyce love making

          1. Joyce constantly interrupts partner during the cuddles/kisses and warm up phase.
          2. Joyce constantly ignoring partners plea to make them lubricant
          3. Joyce making up a figure about his penis length, then interrupting partner constantly – finally coming to soon, at the sound of his own – which he thinks is lovely – voice.

          Sorry it flashed in my head, please forgive me.

          • Liberal Realist 30.1.1.1.1

            Shudder the thought! I don’t know if this can be forgiven!

            You did make me laugh out aloud though!

  31. ronjeremy 31

    David Brent from The Office. Absolutly no self awareness how rediculous he comes across.The glances continually at the camera really nailed the role.

  32. TheContrarian 32

    “I know at the Standard that we try to have a civilised debate about current events and allow all points of view to be expressed.”

    Dissent is rarely tolerated. While many points of view are expressed, derision usually follows with quick haste. Civilised debate takes a back seat.

    But given the navel gazing of people who are really “into politics” it aint surprising

    • Clemgeopin 32.1

      Dissent with depth is tolerated. Dissent with dishonest dissing is not. Why should it be?

  33. BruceTheMoose 33

    Joyce was never went there to debate anything. He went there with a predetermined agenda of justifying his government’s underhanded program of selling yet further NZ assets to foreign ownership, notably to Chinese interests, as this has obviously been part of Key and his closest cohorts side of their secret deal in the free trade agreements between the countries. In his desperate attempt to defend and shut down the whole subject of selling prime productive land to their preferred foreign purchasers, Joyce only made himself look a arrogant obnoxious twit. Proves just how desperate they are to try and snuff out the subject before it gets further traction as a bigger election issue.

  34. Philj 34

    xox
    Oi reckon Joycee boy has a future … in acting. Hobbit, hitman, mafiosi … .Suggestions please. His time is running out.

  35. Local Kiwi 35

    AmaKiwi – How to combat overbearing National Ministers.

    “Unfortunately they did not appear to have individual microphones.”

    ” In the future Labour should demand they do and demand microphones be cut off when the other speaker is using her/his allotted time to answer the question put by the moderator.”

    This was a shameful abuse of the term “debate.”

    Sad to have to do but all media should have this available.

    Well done AmaKiwi+++++++++++1000%

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