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Steven Joyce rewrites history

Written By: - Date published: 8:53 am, December 20th, 2016 - 62 comments
Categories: making shit up, Media, national, same old national, Steven Joyce, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

It is the second week of post John Key National and they are already struggling.

Following on from the decision to bail out of the Mt Albert by election because of the concern of receiving a further shellacking National is trying to avoid accusations that it has chickened out by rewriting history.

From Radio New Zealand:

National’s campaign manager Steven Joyce said the decision not to stand in Mt Albert was a tactical one.

“This is a very safe Labour seat, if you add the Labour and green votes together it’s hugely safe, our view is simply to conserve our resources and have the General Election at the end of the year.”

They [Labour] made their own decision for example not to stand in Northland and that was fine for them,” Mr Joyce said.

When it was pointed to Mr Joyce that Labour did field a candidate in the Northland by-election he responded “oh they did, but they didn’t – they just said ‘you guys will vote for Winston’ [Peters] and they did.”

“When they said they stood I think that’s a relative term.”

It takes extraordinary linguistic gymnastics to suggest that standing a candidate in an election is the same as not standing a candidate.  Only on Planet Key.  Or is that now Planet Joyce?

62 comments on “Steven Joyce rewrites history ”

  1. Sacha 1

    Good on Benedict Collins for calling him on it. Real journalism.

    • Cinny 1.1

      +1

      Some Tories claim that it is OK with voters in Mt Roskill, this decision.

      But I would like to see NZ media actively go to Mt Roskill and talk to many people from as many walks of life as they can find in that electorate, and really discover if it is ok with voters, especially the tories if they find any willing to talk about it.

      I feel this is a lack of democracy and accountability by the outgoing government. Mr Dildo says it is strategy, it looks to me like a failing campaign manager who (loving this wording from Mickys write up) likes to play linguistic gymnastics.

      • Cinny 1.1.1

        lolz sorry I mean Mt Albert not Mt Roskill I’ll call that a by election blonde moment lmao

      • Skinny 1.1.2

        I find it incredible no one has questioned why Joyce is still the National Party campaign manager? I see it as a clear conflict of interest him being both their campaign manager and the Finance Minister.

        Joyce has a history of offering up pork barrel/corporate welfare, so in his new ministerial position one can fairly well assume he may deal out plenty of pork from the taxpayers trough to his mates. Think we will heat up the pork offerings during the by-election 🙂

  2. framu 2

    theres also the fact that in the mt albert case, were talking about the majority party in the sitting govt, with a new PM, not running, a year out from the election

    sure theres arguments as to tactics and all that – but to ignore the context is a bit of a stretch when making comparisons

  3. Carolyn_nth 3

    Northland – kinda like National not standing a candidate in Epsom – tho Epsom with some convoluted nods, winks, and cups of tea.

    • Sacha 3.1

      A Northland equivalent would have been Labour and the Greens throwing the seat to Mana. Funnily enough, that’s not what happened. Act is only in parliament because of a single Nat-strong electorate.

      • Carolyn_nth 3.1.1

        True.

        I was just thinking of a fairly superficial “not standing” while standing comparison.

  4. doug hood 4

    like “pretty legal”

    • Ben Clark 4.1

      Yes, standing is a “relative” thing apparently. And things are not legal/illegal, but “pretty legal” (does he think those laws he passes only kind of need to be met?).

      Next thing he’ll be a “little bit” pregnant…

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

        does he think those laws he passes only kind of need to be met?

        That’s exactly what he and the rest of National think. Just look at their complaints about being caught speeding. They complain that it’s a revenue collecting method instead of law enforcement.

  5. Nick 5

    Planet dildo

  6. Anne 6

    “This is a very safe Labour seat, if you add the Labour and green votes together it’s hugely safe,…

    Oh I see, so how will that work out? Say there’s an election 6 month’s after the by-election… does that mean the Lab. candidate will be the MP for 3 months and then the Green candidate has the next 3 months?

    Attempting to confuse voters by mixing up the electorate vote and the party vote?

  7. Muttonbird 7

    I can see National not standing in several seats in the general election, especially in Auckland which they seem to have conceded, and accepted is broken through their lack of vision and harmful immigration policy

    It will seriously damage their party vote.

  8. aerobubble 8

    National will likely back an independent, so its just a boring story. pr requirements mean the brand must be in our faces all the time. Like Trump. Superficial media, attention seekings apply there.

    Labour crying about National voters getting no say in the by election, just more lacklastre from pr heads. The practices of playing within the rules, like Epson are not underhanded, they actually suggest the party has an interest in the process.

    Labours inability to fight a corner, show its engaged, rather than its wornout refrain of procedural engagement, saying its connecting, rather than connecting. Labour are a constituency party, Greens a list party, so do the maths, you get more MPs n splitting the vote pay list Green, local seat Labour. Sure proportinally its whatever, but should enough voters do so, they get more local MPs, like in Epsom. And you have to wonder why its okay for National to play inside the rules but not Labour. Since having ng more local voices, overhang MPs like the Maori party.

    Maybe then votes might start seeing a Labour party fighting for them, heaven forefend.

    • Cinny 8.1

      Regardless of your opinion Aerobubble and mine too, I wonder what the people of Mt Albert really think about this lack of democracy?

      • Fisiani 8.1.1

        What lack of democracy. They get to vote. The outcome is already known so a master stroke from Bill. The carping here is because they cannot have a victory. All that matters is whether National gets more or less than 50% in October

        • Skinny 8.1.1.1

          Umm are you not worried by chickening out of the by-election Bill English will slip back to Mr Twenty One % by July?

          • fisiani 8.1.1.1.1

            I fully expect National to rise in the next poll and stay high till the election. I actually believe that there will never be another Labour government.

            • the pigman 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Great — I will be sure to have this engraved in your 2017/2020 political headstone.

              Not even the most deluded Natbots believe in indefinite one party rule.

            • Skinny 8.1.1.1.1.2

              Aim high, fall big, ouch!

            • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1.3

              These are David Farrar’s thoughts exactly.

              I imagine the Bill English shotgun government will get some kind of poll bump so you are not exactly Nostradamus there. Don’t expect that bump to be sustained though after he pulls away from Auckland communities and gets bogged down by the media.

        • Cinny 8.1.1.2

          Fisiani… a lack of government representation for the voters, the largest political party in NZ refuses to represent the people of Mt Albert.. yeah that’s really democratic, I’m sure that won’t help the outgoing government win votes next election.

          “The carping here is because they cannot have a victory”

          I’d say the problem is the people of Mt Albert unable to ask the government any questions re policy at the by election.

          Tories will say it’s strategy, simply because that’s what they want it to be, strategy makes it sound so much more palatable to them. Time will tell how that works out.

          If their so called strategy was to save money for the general or if they were really concerned about the cost of a by election to the tax payer they would simply hold an early election. But noooooo apparently it’s strategy. Funny old world isn’t it?

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.3

          Haha haha hah

          Nobody is carping on here. We’re pointing out that National lost big time.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.4

          Not carping on at all. Just noting that National lost big time.

      • aerobubble 8.1.2

        nAtional will give a independant the nod, no lost democracy. Whinging about it is boring. Do better like declare how lousy National are short of money, crap with money and rhe economy, how investment is not a bad word. free trade who does not want lower costs of business, who would support ttpa when it locks in big pharma, big global energy, to profits no matter what. Its just a disgrace Labour talks about unfair processes when they are not. Its smart for people to split their vote as they get twice the representatives from thier area. Epsom has FOUR local MPs, ACT, NAt, Gren and i possbly a LAB list. Get off your tight nanny arses and fight for something damnit.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    The problem that National has now that Key has stood down is that none of the rest of them lie as well as Key did.

    • tc 9.1

      Exactly draco. Shonky could sell snow to eskimoes, a skill theyve relied on for years.

      The chief BS artist has gone now so the opposition should be putting a blowtorch to the likes of joyce, bennetts (both of them abhorrent), smith, coleman who will have to spin their own yarns now.

    • mosa 9.2

      Yes Draco

      Joyce and his claim of not standing a candidate to save resources is a case in point.

      They have huge funds at their disposal it just means they can choose what battles they think will have a chance in and in Mt Alberts case hoping their supporters wont feel ignored.

      This will all be forgotten history by the time of the general election.

      • Anne 9.2.1

        Yes. That’s what they’re banking on – the p*** poor memory of the voters. Plus there’s a good chance of another routing – just like the electorate next door. Two routings in a row – very bad look.

  10. “This is a very safe Labour seat…

    Er, around 3500 more people voted National than Labour in the Mt Albert electorate in 2014 (10,823 Labour vs 14,359 National). That’s a very safe Labour seat?

    …if you add the Labour and green votes together it’s hugely safe…

    The Green Party got 8005 votes, so that makes 18,828 Labour-Green vs 15,434 National-ACT-Conservatives. So, yes more people voted left than right, but it’s not what you’d call “hugely safe.”

    Still, I guess it’s no more bullshit-laden than anything else Joyce says.

  11. Gristle 11

    Does this mean that for the 2017 General Election National will not have candidates in any electorate that is a “very safe Labour seat”?

    It’s the best way “to conserve our [National Party] resources.”

    • Ben Clark 11.1

      I thought they always had enough resources for 2 general elections in a row if a stable result couldn’t be met? And now they can’t afford a by-election…

      • Carolyn_nth 11.1.1

        Maybe loads of financial backers are exiting with John Key? Probably not, but….?

        • tc 11.1.1.1

          Not so much exiting but probably got what they paid for so no need to continue contributing to the nats at the same levels possibly.

          More focus on the sinecures and comfy post govt positions the likes of bill, steven and chris will get. Just look at where ryall and power ended up as a guide.

  12. Janet 12

    Saving money for the Eminem case? Cos ‘pretty legal’ may not be legal enough.

    • Siobhan 12.1

      Barry Soper: Mt Albert byelection waste of money

      Barry Soper: Right flag wins referendum
      “One can only hope that Labour can now finally move on from its feeble opposition to the money spent….”

      So in ” NewstalkZB – Herald Land’ Flag referendums are good, Democratic process…not so much.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11769892

    • michelle 12.2

      Saving money what a joke from the party that gave 11.5 to Saudi and no trade deal, spent 20 something million on a flag no one wanted, then there is all the consultant fees we don’t know about, add the pulla rebstock 500 k for her leaky MFAT report and the pay out to the two state servants whom she discredited.
      ACC costs ( being taken to court by John Miller) with people denied ACC entitlements costing us millions. We must not forget Nick Hagers’ daughter how much did she get for the police raid all of this makes the gnats saving money stance bullshert to say the least.

  13. Greg 13

    It wasn’t dildo bagins who went to mt doom frodo wasn’t yellow unlike old dildo bagins

  14. red-blooded 14

    Of course, the theory with MMP is that you vote for the person you think will best represent your electorate, and the party you think will be best at governing the whole country. Most people put both their votes in the same place, basically treating both as Party votes, but not all. Last time, a significant number of people trusted Phil Goff on a personal level, but still wanted a National-led government. Goff is off the scene, so those people (theoretically) were ripe for the picking. It seems to me that National are treating those people with contempt.

    Having said that, Joyce is probably right – Labour are going to win, and now they have to expend resources that National get to keep in the war chest for later in the year. A good reason to donate to Labour (hint, hint…).

    • How’s about. -The natz backroom assassination team are assembled now, and have already identified and greased selected media hands with the money they could and usually would put into a by election. The assassination groups snipers -{via media lapdogs} can now, from a distance, snipe away at all opposition parties thoughts promises, actions ,views .Prepare responses. not have to think on the hoof , wait for slipups to attack, guage/poll public thoughts, be forewarned of likely opposition directions. They were in for a hiding anyway and this way awkward questions wont need to be answered.

  15. Bigdog 15

    I just noticed someone on FB suggested that to make it easier,Joyce should go by the name STILDO.I like it😂

    • Cinny 15.1

      There once was a fella called Stildo
      Poor bastard looked like a Dildo…

      “Stildo” loves that nice one ty for sharing.

  16. repateet 16

    There are so many holes in what Joyce says and does he surely is in line for his own TV show: Country Colander [Not sure about the spelling.] (I mean of the first word)

  17. Bill 17

    Sure. Labour stood in Northland. But it was with a hugely theatrical nod and a wink to the electorate there. National just robbed Labour of a lot of oxygen by not standing in Mt Albert.

    And sure, if you’re a Labour supporter, you can claim they’re running scared (even if that makes no sense), but the fact remains that when Labour wins the by-election as they may have done anyway, it will receive about as much notice as a by-line on page 6 or 23.

    And the campaign itself will receive bugger all coverage beyond the reporting of the fact that National aren’t standing a candidate.

    • Muttonbird 17.1

      You’re desperate. 🙂

      • Bill 17.1.1

        Me? I’m just calling it as I see it from a left perspective that’s openly tired of the tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum of centrist ‘bound and gagged’ NZ parliamentary politics.

      • infused 17.1.2

        I always find it funny when people say the right are so desperate… look in the mirror my dude. National are not the ones polling in the 20’s.

        • WILD KATIPO 17.1.2.1

          ” National are not the ones polling in the 20’s. ”

          No, but their leader / party did back in 2002.

          Seriously ….. Dipper and Pullyer?

          Even you have to admit both of them have been portrayed as either a joke or ineffectual. Or both. They’re like the Odd Couple , Laurel and Hardy… and how is this related to Mt Albert ? … well… quite directly as many of the above comments point out.

          The fact is, … Key is gone. NONE of the current line up have either the sleazy used car salesman acumen of Key or his ability to twist the truth. ALL of them have embarrassing pasts and are well known for it. And they cannot keep bathing in the afterglow of the Key persona forever. That , like the rules of entropy , means even that will decay.

          This is no ‘ strategic’ ploy by this govt – its simply a govt that wants to present some sort of perceived ‘intelligent game plan ‘ instead of the general decline it knows is now going to inevitably happen.

          Again,… after the embarrassment of Northland followed by Roskill … it is hard to really believe anything Dildo says… lets be honest here.

          They have no answer.

          Poor David Farrar…

          Trying to make a silk purse from the proverbial sows ear from this fetid , motley bunch will give him nightmares.

        • Muttonbird 17.1.2.2

          I always find it funny when people retreat to the latest polls when feeling under pressure.

  18. JustMe 18

    If my memory serves me correct but in the lead-up to the Northland by-election John Key(the now ex-pm)warned that a change of MP in Northand would result in problems for the TPPA. What an opportunistic scare-monger(as per usual for Key)he was.
    Key even said in the lead up to the previous general election that a change of government would result in a credit downgrade by Standards and Poor. Again a Key tactic that was again a load of bullocks.
    The reason Key got in at the last election was due to typical Kiwi apathy. There was opportunity for Kiwis to vote but they didn’t. And for those who didn’t vote and probably complain to this day about the then Key and now English government…… well you have only yourselves to blame.
    Steven Joyce is abit of a no-hoper. It took him more than 3 days to bother to go to the Bay of Plenty region after the Rena hit the Astrolab reef. We can hardly expect him to place any great priority on anything unless there is the possibility of votes involved.
    The impression I get in regards to the English government not putting up a National MP for Mt Albert is they intend to do abit of political manipulation. That is they will try to create through innuendo the belief that a by-election within 11 months out from the next general election(if held in November 2017) is a waste of NZ taxpayers money and we must blame the Labour Party for the need of a by-election. The typical National ploy of blame everyone else at every opportunity in attempt to look good through a beguiled with all things National government NZ media.

  19. fisiani 19

    There is no mood for political change in NZ. The only question is whether National will get above or below 50%.

    • Muttonbird 19.1

      English is not going to maintain the same everyman facade that so beguiled the selfish half of the electorate during the now gone Key years.

      Even the once compliant youth wing of the msm is having a crack at English, something they wouldn’t have dared do to Key.

      No, momentum is important and National has stalled while the opposition is becoming energetic.

      • Sacha 19.1.1

        Timing of the election is a big factor. The world’s looming economic troubles can only be downplayed for so long before voters get anxious ..

      • WILD KATIPO 19.1.2

        Id have to agree… English , Bennett, et al,… have none of the machismo charismo of Key.

        The nearest one that has got it is Collins.

        And we all know what her treatment by Blinglish is sposed to represent.

        …. L0L !….. Oravida Collins!

        Enough said!

        And even if they do well in the coming election , it will be touch and go . We are now looking at the decline of National. There just isn’t anyone to replace Key. None of them can think fast enough on their feet , all of them are gaffe prone , none are particularly inspiring and all have some serious past issues.

        The whole National party iilusionary mirage will take about 8 months to crumble. If that.

        That’s about the time Key will then be forgotten and passe’ , … failed party policy’s ( particularly social policy’s eg : housing , welfare, homelessness ) will cause popular discontent and criticism by the media as they realize they have nothing left to lose and their security blanket Key is no longer there to provide a bulwark, … and if a large number of people get burned with a popping of the housing bubble…. this govt will be lucky if they are not tarred and feathered and drummed unceremoniously out of town.

        And for National ?…

        It’ll be back to the future to the year 2002 all over again.

        • Hanswurst 19.1.2.1

          all of them are gaffe prone

          Key was highly gaffe-prone, probably more so than any of the current line-up bar Bennett. He just had a laid back and unassuming demeanour that resonated with the public over the last few years.

          Bill English is certainly competent, and I think that, as unlikely as he is to chime with the electorate on a personal level in the same way that Key did, the appearance of being on top of his game, and the change from the handwavy, slapdash air that Key transmitted could well aid National’s image.

          The opposition could well have a harder time pushing Little as a solid, reliable alternative now than they would have to the bubbly, lightweight and bumbling ways of the outgoing Prime Minister, since the new (old) fellow already exudes those qualities.

          Aside from the obvious focus on important issues like housing and wages, the opposition would perhaps be best ignoring English as far as possible and focussing on manifest idiots like Bennett and Bridges. While not an idiot, Joyce can be relied on to make an ass of himself in the public eye without any outside help.

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