Student debt, it’s the interest that matters

Written By: - Date published: 4:36 pm, April 10th, 2008 - 48 comments
Categories: education, labour, national - Tags: , ,

Today, outstanding student loan debt reaches $10 billion. That’s a fair old swag of money but what has been ignored in the coverage so far is that this debt is interest-free. Now, an economist will tell you that the price of money is the interest rate, so student loans are free money. It’s not quite as simple as that because, as a loan holder, you have to pay 10 cents in every dollar you earn over $18184 towards the debt but, still, student debts are nowhere near as expensive as they were when there was interest on them.

Say you borrowed $10,000 each year for three years ending this year and the loan would be repaid by compulsory repayments alone. Here’s how it would look with Labour’s interest-free policy, just interest after studying, and interest all the time, like when National was last in power (normal assumptions: inflation 2.5%, real wage growth 2.5% starting at $40,000, interest rate 7%).

studyloan.JPG
Total repayments in 2008 dollars-
Interest-free: $26338, 10 years
No interest while studying: $41409, 15 years
Interest all the time: $45842, 17 years

Because inflation means an interest-free loan is actually worth less in real terms over time; the interest-free $30,000 will cost only $26,000 in today’s dollars to pay back over 10 years. If there was still interest once study had finished repayments would be 57% more. Under National’s interest all the time policy, you would pay 74% more than you do under Labour’s policy and it would take seven years longer.

Labour could do better for tertiary students, there ought to be a universial allowance for starters, but they’re much better off than when National was piling interest on their shoulders.

48 comments on “Student debt, it’s the interest that matters”

  1. Lampie 1

    I think the increase is because it is more affordable plus interesting to see if there is an increase in part-time students and if so how this affects the overall statistics. I pay while still finishing off papers and by the way, my wife’s one is dropping like a stone under Labour

  2. Billy 2

    “there ought to be a universial allowance for starters”

    What a dingbat of an idea. The poor struggling taxpayer already pays 74% of the true cost of tertiary education. How spoilt, ungrateful and self-important do you have to be to say that that’s not enough.

    All those middle class kids getting subsidies from truck drivers so that they can become lawyers and enrich themselves by charging the truck driver legal fees post-graduation.

  3. Lampie 3

    What I would find interesting Steve is the make up of those debts, i.e. full time versus part time AND what percentage of that $10 billion is studies now finished so loans are now been repaid. Also as mentioned I have a loan but also current paying it while in study, wouldn’t that skew the stats?

    $10 billion may sound a lot but is it really a concern? That is what I would like to know, cheers

  4. Lampie 4

    Also another thing, IRD lumps all your loan as one where StudyLink has them seperate (as most would apply every year). Which stat is used and man I get confused 🙁

  5. r0b 5

    Education is a public good Billy. Your education enriches not only you, but (unlikely as it sounds!) it enriches the whole country. Where are we going to get innovation and growth and a growing economy from, if not from education?

    The tragedy of the student loan system is that it creates exactly the wrong incentives for young people graduating. There they are with with an expensive and valuable education. Their (often huge) student debt is a powerful motivation to just walk out of this country, taking their education with them, and never come back. It’s insane!

    Now, what is worse for the tax payer? (1)Pay 74% of the cost of an education that walks overseas (and ends up building a competing economy), or, (2) pay 100% of the cost of an education that is more likely to stay in NZ, and build our economy, and pay taxes here.

    I vote for Option 2. I think student debt is a scandal. Free education!

  6. Billy 6

    I understand the average loan is $16k. Hardly much of a contribution to a quality education.

  7. Lampie 7

    I vote for Option 2. I think student debt is a scandal. Free education!

    You can’t win r0b, all these Nappy supporters saying we need free education like Ireland and when you agree they will say “no way, pay the full cost”.

  8. Matthew Pilott 8

    All those truck drivers not having to work and save so hard, so they can send their kids to university because they aspire to get them degrees. Gosh it’s awful billy – and it would only get worse with an allowance.

    And, given a degree increases your average earnings, well, the average tax contribution per citizen would increase if they further encouraged people to study. Even worse!

    Steve – I think there need to be greatly increased subsidies for the trades and institutes and so on, actually. I think that would be a better use of money than for allowances – university has become a default for many people, as you can carry on like you did at Mum & Dad’s, even if you end up with a 40k loan. Make the alternatives equally as advertised and attractive.

    Hell they might be, I’m basing this more upon perception than anything else, but that’s where the shortages are developing.

  9. Billy 9

    R0b, you mammering common-kissing horn-beast, it’s not free, you’re just asking someone else to pay for it. And since it’s mainly rich kids who go to university, it’s a subsidy of the wealthy by the poor. What is the public good in educating people to become wealthy accountants? And to whine that you have to pay 26% of something that improves you is just unchin-snouted.

  10. r0b 10

    You can’t win r0b

    Of course I can’t win, but I can go down grumbling!

    Good point re Ireland.

  11. Matthew Pilott 11

    Billy, the loan might be 16k, but the cost given to a student (this is pure heresay) is only about 1/4 of the cost of tertiary study – so make it closer to $75k…

    Anyone got stats on that?

  12. BeShakey 12

    Billy – the mean loan will be skewed by people studying part time or just taking a paper. A better representation of the ‘average’ would be the median. Putting that aside, even if the median was very low there might still be a problem. Doctors and dentists for instance are often cited as having extraordinarily large loans. Surprise surprise they also either charge very large fees, need higher salaries to entice them to stay here, or just leave. Which means that you can wave bye bye to the 74% of their education that you paid for, simply because you were stingy about the last 16%. Of course, even with free education people will leave the country for a time, but needing high pay to pay off an enormous loan can’t help.

  13. Matthew Pilott 13

    And since it’s mainly rich kids who go to university, it’s a subsidy of the wealthy by the poor. What is the public good in educating people to become wealthy accountants?

    It’s alright billy, we tax the bejesus out of them (the rich ones) afterwards don’t we? Makes up for it, don’t you think? If it helps, just imagine that top tax rate is purely to fund university study.

  14. Billy 14

    Jesus BeShakey, with maths like that I hope the taxpayer didn’t front up for with a free education for you.

    Of course, what we should be aiming for is a situation where everyone subsidises everyone else so that we all end up with what we started with, less of course the costs of collection and paying it out.

  15. r0b 15

    Billy, beware my sting thou errant flap-mouthed wagtail!

    it’s not free, you’re just asking someone else to pay for it

    Your taxes pay for my education, I work in this country and my taxes pay for your retirement. It’s not a matter of petty accounting, it’s a social contract. A bigger world view.

    And since it’s mainly rich kids who go to university, it’s a subsidy of the wealthy by the poor

    I don’t have any stats, but that that claim is a lot less true than it was. Society is changing. And I’m not sure the maths works out on “the poor” (who pay less tax) subsidising the wealthy either. But rich and poor alike we need doctors and teachers and agricultural scientists and a growing economy…

    What is the public good in educating people to become wealthy accountants?

    … and yes even a few accountants.

    And to whine that you have to pay 26% of something that improves you is just unchin-snouted.

    And once again, addle-pate, education is a public good.

  16. higherstandard 16

    rob

    Nice to see you’re being amplivagant with you’re verbiage in support of the barbarocracy

  17. r0b 17

    I aim to please HS! But Billy and I aren’t just indulging in random logolepsy, believe it or not there is method in the madness:

    NZ Growing Faster Than Aussie, US, Japan, and UK

  18. randal 18

    with that gobful hs your loan must be about $500,000! tell us plebs what you really mean in plain english please. mine is 60 grand and everybody thinks I’m stupid…hahahahahaha

  19. r0b 19

    Randal, roughly translated HS said that he was glad I was using so many fancy words in support of the ruling barbarians.

    How many of your friends have loans of a similar size? How does such a loan effect your (or their) plans for the future?

  20. insider 20

    I’m more right than left but a definite believer in free education just because it is a great leveller and opportunity giver, not just for young people but older ones too, no matter what your background.

    The weakness of the loans scheme is IMO that it stifles creativity and options too early. When you are just leaving school, you are forced early on to choose your life direction because the cost issues can be to high to try things and see what you are good at. Remove that pressure and you may find people are more productive long term.

    I suspect people go for accounting because they want a good job that will pay their loans off, not because they ‘want’ to be accountants.

    Anyway, that’s my theory

  21. Dean 21

    Rob:

    “The tragedy of the student loan system is that it creates exactly the wrong incentives for young people graduating. There they are with with an expensive and valuable education. Their (often huge) student debt is a powerful motivation to just walk out of this country, taking their education with them, and never come back. It’s insane!”

    Actually I think the tragedy is more like why we see user pays education to be such a bad thing in this country, when plenty of other countries have it and don’t experience anywhere near the “brain drain” New Zealand does.

    Do you have any ideas why this is the case?

  22. randal 22

    Rob…I have a good degree but am nearly a senior and I cant get a job…I have stopped worryng about it, whats 60 g’s out of $5billion…so much for getting an education

  23. Dave 23

    I’ve got a monster loan ($60,000-ish) after studying for 5 years full time. Good news is that I have an MA. And work in finance. And I think most people would agree that being educated is a good thing.

    Because of the interest free repayments I’ve stayed in the country. Sense of obligation and all that. As soon as interest gets put back on I’ll make like John Key and bugger off overseas to make my millions in London (and pay them my taxes). For me the social contract starts and ends with the interest. Add the interest – remove the social contract.

    We can argue for hours about whether this is a reasonable decision on the part of people like me. Yes the State paid for a large chunk of my education. Thanks truck drivers! And the State benefits from that investment. But the thing that has changed is that twenty-somethings like myself have learned that we don’t have to accept what we’re told. We learned from the 80s and 90s. And now we can make some of the terms. The playing field is more even. (Thanks near-full employment!)

    So – you can argue that it’s only fair that I should pay interest on my loan. But then you can’t complain when I leave. And I’m not the only one by any stretch. You think the brain drain is bad now? Ha. Vote National – and then see what a real brain drain is.

    NB: Few people I know have a $16,000 loan – unless they’re second year or work 20 hours a week on top of their study. Good on them for that – but I would love to see the more relevant stat of ‘what is the median loan for graduate in the last five years>’

  24. DS 24

    “What a dingbat of an idea. The poor struggling taxpayer already pays 74% of the true cost of tertiary education. How spoilt, ungrateful and self-important do you have to be to say that that’s not enough.”

    The baby-boomer generation who implemented the student loan system DID NOT HAVE TO PAY A CENT for their university education. Did they allow their children the same avenues of education that they had enjoyed, in an era where a Knowledge Economy is seemingly so important? No they didn’t. They screwed over their kids, just as they screwed over their own parents.

    As for a universal student allowance favouring the rich, the current system assumes that parents will provide for their children until they’re 25. Which is, frankly, bullshit. Moreover, the really rich can use trust loopholes to get around the income requirement if they so choose. And there are administrative costs relating to deciding whether or not someone qualifies for allowance. Make the allowance universal and you get rid of a load of bureaucratic costs at a stroke.

  25. mike 25

    “It’s alright billy, we tax the bejesus out of them (the rich ones)”
    No Matthew the envy tax kicks in at 60k. If you think that is rich then you are much sillier than I thought.
    Yr use of ‘we’ is interesting – its a real them and us fight for you lefty folk eh.

  26. DS 26

    “No Matthew the envy tax kicks in at 60k. If you think that is rich then you are much sillier than I thought.”

    Mike, if you think 39% is a tax level that reflects envy then you are much sillier than I thought. If implementing a 39% tax rate makes us a bunch of evil envious socialists, what on earth does that make the USA of the 1950s, which had top tax rates above 90%?

  27. big bruv 27

    You have to laugh at all the stupid socialists who want “free” education, just where do you think that money comes from in the first place?

    I agree with Billy, the real working man (the people YOU lot are supposed to represent) already subsidizes tertiary education to the tune of 74%, on top of that they the election bribe interest free loans.

    It is about time students thanked the tax payer for the subsidy they already receive and forget about demanding more money from the working man.

  28. Billy 28

    I am also interested in this idea that the state has to subsidise a “public good”. Many have observed that, when half or more cut, I am significantly more charming, witty and handsome. Surely the public interest is therefore best served by keeping me pissed. Will te state be subsidising my Stolli bill?

  29. AndrewE 29

    BeShakey said: “Which means that you can wave bye bye to the 74% of their education that you paid for, simply because you were stingy about the last 16%.”

    Oh dear, mathematical education sorely needed!

  30. Leftie 30

    I don’t see why education can’t be free from my point of view. The money in the first place would come from the taxes i’ve paid for years, continue to pay as I study, and will pay with my new career. I could sure get it done a lot quicker if it was free. If I want to upskill myself then this seems a fair deal.

    Broaden your mind big bruv.

  31. big bruv 31

    Lefite

    Its just another case of Labour shafting the working man

  32. DS 32

    “I agree with Billy, the real working man (the people YOU lot are supposed to represent) already subsidizes tertiary education to the tune of 74%, on top of that they the election bribe interest free loans.”

    To use the previous example of truck-drivers (the Tory propensity to shed crocodile tears over the plight of the great unwashed masses has always been a source of amusement), those trucks would have nothing to drive on without university-educated civil engineers.

    But hey, those civil engineers-in-training are just bludging off the taxpayer, aren’t they? Just like all those biologists, chemists, mathematicians, computer scientists, and doctors. Who needs ’em? Let’s make ’em pay 100% of their tertiary education – that’ll teach ’em! Ruddy little ignoramuses actually have the nerve to expect the same sort of educational opportunities their parents’ generation had (or as exist in virtually anywhere else in the Western World).

    In fact, why stop there? Why not make everyone pay their own primary and secondary school costs? That way we can return all that tax money to those poor long-suffering inhabitants of Remuera.

  33. randal 33

    dave you are a liar. you lie on tr*d*m*, you lie in the cesspit and you cant tell the truth about anything. you are an angry man with no friends and then you come and lie here even though you say you hate liars. well look in the mirror and deal with it and stop bothering decent people.

  34. Billy 34

    randal, I think I am starting to see why no-one wants to employ you.

  35. Dave 35

    Randal: dave you are a liar. you lie on tr*d*m*, you lie in the cesspit and you cant tell the truth about anything. you are an angry man with no friends and then you come and lie here even though you say you hate liars. well look in the mirror and deal with it and stop bothering decent people.

    Wow. I think that pretty much rebutted every point I made.

    Insightful. Witty. And coherent.

    Well done.

  36. Leftie 36

    big bruv
    “Its just another case of Labour shafting the working man”

    Nope, National started the student loan scheme but I don’t need to remind you of that. Another case of the working man being shafted by National.

  37. r0b 37

    Dean: Actually I think the tragedy is more like why we see user pays education to be such a bad thing in this country, when plenty of other countries have it and don’t experience anywhere near the “brain drain’ New Zealand does. Do you have any ideas why this is the case?

    I don’t know how other countries handle their education costs Dean, I’m not an expert. I suspect that user pays education is regarded as a bad thing in plenty of countries. In NZ I think it interacts with an already strong tradition of the Big OE (young Kiwis travel for many reasons, not all of them economic). The combination is disastrous. I personally know of several (extended) family members and children of friends who have left NZ to escape their student loans.

    randal: Rob I have a good degree but am nearly a senior and I cant get a job I have stopped worryng about it, whats 60 g’s out of $5billion so much for getting an education

    Very sorry to hear it Randal. Don’t give up.

  38. Matthew Pilott 38

    “It’s alright billy, we tax the bejesus out of them (the rich ones)’
    No Matthew the envy tax kicks in at 60k. If you think that is rich then you are much sillier than I thought.
    Yr use of ‘we’ is interesting – its a real them and us fight for you lefty folk eh.

    Envy tax, my favourite. I won’t start on that piece of bigotry again, but it’s a real us versus them thing for you isn’t it?

    Just think, in a comment where you tried to paint someone else as using the us versus them thing, you then used a “you lefty folk” type generalisation. That could have been a clever ironic remark, but I doubt it… Did you think about what you were writing?!?

    P.S you’re assuming I’m not being “envy taxed”? I might have been part of the “them” getting the bejesus taxed out of by “you”, but you assume otherwise… More crass stereotyping is it – I’m from the left, so I must be poor and envious of those on 60k ?

  39. mike 39

    “I’m from the left, so I must be poor and envious of those on 60k ?”
    No you sound more like a latte’ liberal, champagne socialist to me Matt..

  40. RedLogix 40

    No you sound more like a latte’ liberal, champagne socialist to me Matt..

    I’ve always wondered what was the driver behind this banal and commonplace epithet. After all what could be more praiseworthy than a wealthy person who has not allowed their wealth to become a barrier between them and caring for those less fortunate?

    Is the nastiness nothing more than the dark guilt of those lessor folk who know (but would never admit) that they do not measure up?

  41. DS 41

    “I’ve always wondered what was the driver behind this banal and commonplace epithet.”

    Basically, it goes back to the US Republican Party (the undisputed masters of framing political language). In the 1970s they sought to splinter the New Deal coalition that had sustained Democratic Party dominance in the US since the 1930s, and so tried to win over blue-collar workers by creating this image of “welfare queens, limousine liberals,” etc. And it worked: for thirty years, the term “liberal” has been a dirty word in swathes of the US, simply because Republican propaganda has created this image of leftists being elitists (an image that gets downright Orwellian if you consider what the Right represents).

    Right-wingers here are simply following the lead of their American counterparts. They’ve been rather less successful though, if only because New Zealanders tend to vote on their economic interest (you generally don’t see poor people voting National, for instance, whereas most of the poorest states in the US invariably vote Republican).

  42. higherstandard 42

    DS

    “You generally don’t see poor people voting for National ”

    Who do the “poor people” vote for ? And God forbid who do they vote for if they turn into “rich people”

  43. IrishBill 43

    MJ Savage had a line about that HS, it went something like “they came in their rags to vote us in then came in their motorcars to vote us out.”

  44. higherstandard 44

    Great line IB

    If only our current batch of politicians had a similar grasp of the English language.

  45. RedLogix 45

    DS,

    Ah yes. I like your explanation. I guess I forgot the principle contribution American has made to the world… marketing. Delivered via Hollywood and Madison Avenue.

  46. higherstandard 46

    Bit more than that maybe Red – I know it’s fashionable to blame the worlds ills on the USA but it’s be a very different world without their influence over the last 100 years and I very much doubt it would be a better one.

  47. Matthew Pilott 47

    HS – if nothing else, can we blame the US for the ills inflicted upon the english language? I’m sure they’re behind the decline of the semicolon, to say nothing of the abomination that is apostrophe usage.

    P.S Top contribution mike, keep it up; it’s a shame there’s no easy political stereotype for the inane…

  48. higherstandard 48

    MP

    In the aforementioned blame we are in complete agreement.

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    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    6 days ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    6 days ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    6 days ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    7 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    7 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further details of Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall visit to New Zealand
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed further details on the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall’s visit to New Zealand next month. Their Royal Highnesses will visit New Zealand from 17-23 November – their third joint visit to New Zealand and first in four years. They arrive in Auckland ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • O’Connor in Thailand to push for RCEP deal
    Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth and Minister of Agriculture, Damien O’Connor, heads to Thailand today to attend the final Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) Ministerial meeting, as negotiations enter their final stages. “The RCEP Agreement would anchor New Zealand in a regional agreement that covers 16 countries, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Young Pacific people can access earning and learning opportunities in Hawke’s Bay, Otago and South...
    Pacific young people living in the Hawke’s Bay, Southland and Otago regions will have access to support services that have proved successful in helping young people find new earning and learning opportunities. “Tupu Aotearoa is about changing Pacific young peoples’ lives. Our young people are talented, they are smart, they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Protecting wellbeing – ACC HQSC Trauma Forum
    Introduction As the Minister for ACC I thank you all for the work that you do supporting New Zealanders in their literally most vulnerable moments. From those who hold people’s lives in their hands, to the people who research technique, technology and trends, your work is highly valued. A special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ economy in good shape – notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch
    Notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch – Wednesday 9 October 2019 Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • World Mental Health Day a reminder of the importance of mental health work
    Minister of Health Dr David Clark and Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare say this year’s World Mental Health Day theme is a reminder of why the Government’s work on mental health is so important. “This year the World Federation for Mental Health has made suicide prevention the main theme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Cultural Ministers Meeting
    Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni will represent the government at Australia’s Meeting of Cultural Ministers in Adelaide this week. “This year’s meeting is special because New Zealand is expected to become an International Member of the Meeting of Cultural Ministers at this Australian forum,” Carmel Sepuloni said. “The meeting is an opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 608 claims resolved by GCCRS in first year
    The Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service has resolved 608 insurance and EQC claims in its first year in operation, Minister Megan Woods has announced. The government service, which celebrates its first birthday today, provides a one stop shop to help Cantabrians still battling to get their homes repaired or rebuilt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy in good shape
    Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There has been an increasing amount of attention paid to the outlook ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZTA to refocus on safety following review
    The Government is acting swiftly to strengthen NZTA’s regulatory role following a review into the Transport Agency, and Ministry of Transport’s performance as its monitor, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. An independent review by Martin Jenkins has found NZTA failed to properly regulate the transport sector under the previous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint Cooperation Statement on Climate Change between the Netherlands and New Zealand
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