Suicide, Mike King, and mental health services

38 comments on “Suicide, Mike King, and mental health services ”

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1. Draco T Bastard 1

   19 May 2017 at 8:20 am

   What needs to be looked at is government policies effects upon the suicide rate. Especially policies that punish people for being poor, the beneficiary bashing that this government has engaged in since forever.

   We all know that these policies have some effect but we need to know what effect and then undo them.
   • Cinny 1.1

     19 May 2017 at 9:32 am

     Strongly agree with you Draco.

     Why are people so soul destroyed that they are killing themselves?

     There will be many reasons, but the one thing they probably all have in common, is they are sick of suffering, they are feeling so hurt and so desperate that the only way they can find to take away their suffering is suicide.

     We can all do something every day, it’s called being kind, acknowledging others and showing respect to EVERYONE, no matter how they look or what they do. Help others to feel valued and important.

     Such behaviour should be demonstrated by our government, and clearly it is not. And the greedy money prioritising Tory fools can’t even seem to comprehend that a happy population would drive the economy through the roof.

     The government could do so much more, and it needs to be action in many different areas. But they choose not to, the National Party chooses not to.

     This year I’m voting for change, I’m choosing to do something about it.
     • greywarshark 1.1.1

       19 May 2017 at 11:00 am

       I think in Freudian thinking about our minds, love and money, food and physical comforts are all connected. And it seems in ‘Affluenza’ terms, that the love-money thing can get out of balance, in that the more excess money one gets, the less love there is in the soul for others outsides one’s own intimate relationships.

       We need to understand human thinking, and take an overview of humankind, and reflect in an inner view of how we think of others and ourselves. We need to love our own souls, something that isn’t talked or thought about much. But our minds are affected by our needy thoughts, perhaps we need to be the ‘best we can be’, being instilled by parents, school, sports.

       But put it another way that is easier on the inner psyche, and think ‘do everything as well as you can’, but look for your interest, your potential and find a way to excel at that. Much more positive. And the result, less need to grasp and hold onto money as the main boost to your psyche.

       If we had a point when you said ‘enough is enough’ and could relax, then you would be able to share more without anxiety of being bereft in the world, or needing it to add to your standing, perhaps (mentally) the only thing going for you.

       But universities are having their Humanities funding cut. So where will the study of human behaviour and its understanding go then? Better that we all be turned into psychologically programmed pigeons pecking at the money source and finally tearing our feathers out. That is the government’s program for us. And even if they deny this, having no policy about something, actually constitutes a policy of neglect of that something.

       Put a little sweetness in your day with Nat King Cole and Nature Boy. (A great piece of performance.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0XJCJ1Srw
       ‘The greatest thing you’ll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return.’

       and interesting to compare others – beautiful, many passed.
       Swedish The Real Group (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDsjZXrYIZk
       More arcapella jazz from Afro Blue 7.41m
       (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzX0-05KHG4
       David Bowie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_YtyyfUF8g
       Michael Jackson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEI5VXyS0qw
       Cher (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwL7NNct3g
       Ella Fitzgerald (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBfuoMpabHY
       • Cinny 1.1.1.1

         19 May 2017 at 4:20 pm

         Oh snap, I’ve been watching a BBC doco series about Freuds nephew Edward Bernays who invented the public relations profession, it’s disturbingly fascinating.

         Made back in 2002 but still so relevant today. The Century of the Self

         “This series is about how those in power have used Freud’s theories to try and control the dangerous crowd in an age of mass democracy.”

         It’s about controlling people via their emotions. Am so understanding where you are coming from GWS.

         Cheers for links to sweet beats. Here’s one for you.

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIiPLVR6NA
         • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1

           19 May 2017 at 7:36 pm

           Thanks Cinny and One Two
           Good to know that it struck a heart string and beat when one writes.

           And Cinny I must watch that thing on Bernays as I’ve only heard bits. I heard that he turned round the strong social disdain for women smoking by organising a set of beautiful women celebrating being emancipated by smoking, and turned around a societal ban in no time. How can that be applied to getting young people voting???

           If you can’t beat ’em join ’em.
         • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.2

           20 May 2017 at 12:49 pm

           Cinny and perhaps One Two
           There was an interesting woman interviewed by Kim Hill this morning who has something to say on lots of bases about women, humanity, travel, personal journeys etc.

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201844552/ariel-levy-the-rules-do-not-apply
           author interview
           10:05 am today
           Ariel Levy – The rules do not apply
           From Saturday Morning, 10:05 am today
           Listen duration 21′ :30″
           Ariel Levy is a journalist and writer based in New York. She joined The New Yorker as a staff writer in 2008, tackling topics such as the world’s reaction to intersex South African runner Caster Semenya, and Edith Windsor, the plaintiff in the Supreme Court case that brought down the Defense of Marriage Act. Levy won a National Magazine Award in 2013 for the essay “Thanksgiving in Mongolia”, where she details a miscarriage in a hotel room while on assignment in Ulaanbaatar.

           The loss caused Levy to examine the unravelling of her life, a process that led her to author the New York Times best-seller The Rules Do Not Apply (2017). Her first book was Female Chauvinist Pigs (2006), which looked at the rise of ‘raunch’ culture.
           ………………………………………………………………………………..

           http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201844547/tommy-rhattigan-bread-jam-and-terror
           A great interview with a street wise kid who narrowly missed being one of the Moors Murders victims and has got himself through it and has found himself enough to be strong, and talk about it and warm and understanding.
           Tommy Rhattigan. The value of counselling is a theme, and also the iniquitous practice of splitting up children from homes that had difficulties.
           I’ve encountered this before. A mechanical process by a pathetically uninformed and uncaring system.

           author interview crime
           8:12 am today
           Tommy Rhattigan – Bread, jam and terror
           From Saturday Morning, 8:12 am today
           Listen duration 37′ :22″
           Tommy Rhattigan was a seven-year-old Manchester boy when he was lured to the house of Myra Hindley and Ian Brady with a promise of bread and jam. Born the eighth of 13 children, he’d been sent out by alcoholic parents to beg on the streets of Hulme, a rundown suburb of Manchester, when he was targeted by the pair – later to be known as the Moors Murderers. He escaped out a window at some point in the encounter – an action he believes saved him from becoming the sixth murder victim.

           Rhattigan, who’s now based in Kent, kept his story secret until 2013, and published a book on that encounter and his life, 1963: A slice of bread and jam earlier this year.

           Ian Brady died this week at the age of 79 at a high-security hospital on Merseyside in North West England after battling a lung and chest condition. Myra Hindley died in prison in 2002.
       • One Two 1.1.1.2

         19 May 2017 at 6:21 pm

         Being astute requires time to stop and feel in touch with ones own emotions…then be mindful to connect to all living beings around us…

         Frameworks have been constructed to ensure that very few have the peace of mind to think and feel a connectedness to other living beings..

         Our species is under a very old, and very organised set of abusive frameworks

         Your comments are deeply appreciated, greywarshark
2. gsays 2

   19 May 2017 at 8:54 am

   What surprised me was the estimate of another 500 people a year suicide, but it is not recorded as such.

   Close to 1 a week, not reported.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     19 May 2017 at 9:03 am

     That would be an extra ten per week unreported as suicide.
     • gsays 2.1.1

       19 May 2017 at 9:18 am

       Yes, cheers, my maths is better than that.
   • Incognito 2.2

     19 May 2017 at 9:03 am

     500 unreported cases is more than 10 a week or more than one a day.

     Think about it for a moment: today it is highly likely that 2 Kiwis will commit suicide. And tomorrow another 2, etc.

     And then think about the suffering surrounding these individuals, before and after, and the many more that suffer in silence without adequate accessible help; it is truly gobsmacking …
     • gsays 2.2.1

       19 May 2017 at 9:21 am

       Apparently you are a lefty for being concerned.
       • Cinny 2.2.1.1

         19 May 2017 at 9:35 am

         Nah G, you are a caring human to be concerned. And this year your vote will reflect your real concern on this issue among others.
3. Cinny 3

   19 May 2017 at 9:37 am

   Kudos Mike Smith for telling NZ how it really is this week. Proud of you Sir.
4. mauī 4

   19 May 2017 at 9:57 am

   Culturally I think we’re in denial about suicide. For instance you never read news reports of someone dying and the cause of death being linked to suicide, barring some famous people. I think media actively suppress reporting on suicides too because there’s so much stigma around it. In contrast we hear about every road death, intersting eh? There’s various reasons I guess, the possibility of shaming and the fact its a taboo topic.

   Edit: Labours policy of mental health teams working with GPs sounds really encouraging too, good stuff.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     19 May 2017 at 12:58 pm

     For instance you never read news reports of someone dying and the cause of death being linked to suicide, barring some famous people.

     That’s because it’s illegal to do so.
5. marty mars 5

   19 May 2017 at 10:48 am

   I work in suicide prevention – at the coalface and this is a very big issue facing the country. Yes another 500 suicides a year to add because they are not classified as suicide – that will make it 1100 or so a year plus the others – driving off road, into traffic, and so on.

   Very complex talking to someone who thinks ending life is an answer to the problem – often as Mike King says they just want their (emotional usually) pain to stop, go away, not be there.

   I hope labours plan works and they get the chance to enact it because a lot is not working now. Kia kaha Mike King – no target? no plan – no plan? what the fuck are we wasting money on you talking heads then eh?
   • r0b 5.1

     19 May 2017 at 11:44 am

     Thank you for the work that you do. I can’t imagine it.
   • gsays 5.2

     19 May 2017 at 3:14 pm

     Hi Marty, well done from me too.

     There are ways we can help/volunteer.
     Putting up our hand and helping youthline, helping coach sport or simply listening when someone speaks.
     Truly listening.
     • David Mac 5.2.1

       19 May 2017 at 8:04 pm

       Yup, feeling wanted and needed is a fundamental life force in a social animal like us. When it’s not there, the road to not being here is short.
   • One Two 5.3

     19 May 2017 at 7:39 pm

     Too all those who are formerly or informally involved in the supporting of our brothers and sisters..

     We are all equally responsible for the well being of others…

     Once that understanding completely envelopes our planet…peace and joy will truly exist
   • joe90 5.4

     19 May 2017 at 9:38 pm

     I work in suicide prevention

     respect, marty
6. riffer 6

   19 May 2017 at 11:22 am

   We only really seem to pay suicide any attention when it happens to someone we love, or when it’s somebody famous, like the reports of Chris Cornell’s death yesterday.

   The rest of the time it’s like some dirty little secret that no-one wants to talk about. And it’s the ultimate expression of how our society is failing its members.

   I don’t know the answer, but I sure as hell don’t think the cult of the individual is the right direction to be constantly looking.

   Sigh…
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     19 May 2017 at 1:02 pm

     The cult of the individual seems to be a cause of a lot of the suffering that we’re seeing.
   • gsays 6.2

     19 May 2017 at 3:16 pm

     Hi Marty, well done from me too.

     There are ways we can help/volunteer.
     Putting up our hand and helping youthline, helping coach sport or simply listening when someone speaks.
     Truly listening.
7. Mrs Brillo 7

   19 May 2017 at 3:38 pm

   In my experience of working with the teams that produce such reports – over a number of years and government departments – the reports are focussed and targeted up till the point where they go to a) a senior departmental official, or more likely, b) the minister’s office in draft.
   At this point they tend to be returned with sections crossed out, usually sections involving specific numbers and goals and deadlines, or contentious recommendations. “Approved” for publishing in their amended form.
   Not saying this happened here, not saying it didn’t…. but it happened more often than I was comfortable with. Seemed to be the regular modus operandi.
   • McFlock 7.1

     19 May 2017 at 3:55 pm

     Yes, I’ve encountered similar things as well.

     The officials work within the constraints of what their political masters are willing to consider – which is how things should be, but it’s a bugger when the political master finds reality to be inconvenient.
     • One Two 7.1.1

       19 May 2017 at 7:42 pm

       Those who do not take a stand, ensure the decline..

       Working within political masters constraints…how it should be…

       No, that is not how it should be
       • McFlock 7.1.1.1

         19 May 2017 at 7:54 pm

         this ain’t the thread for your vacuities dipshit.
         • One Two 7.1.1.1.1

           19 May 2017 at 8:57 pm

           It is a very serious thread. One of the most serious subjects possible which can be discussed. As such it deserves the tabling of thoughts and ideas which bring out deeper thinking on the subject, and the questioning of those thoughts and ideas, which ‘might’ miss a mark

           That is why I responded to your comment, which I believe is an incorrect perspective

           I should have elaborated as to why I thought it was incorrect, and for that I take some responsibility

           So I will say it again…

           Those who do not stand up against poor politics, policy and bullying, abusive behaviour, to continue their own ‘well being’, are in large part responsible. .

           Because they can take a direct stand, where others outside are mostly relegated to petitioning, and being part of the abuse…

           ‘I’m just going my job’….

           The time is past for that attitude, and its going to cost even more lives, dead and broken circles of humans, flora and fauna!

           To those who have ‘stood up’ to their own detriment, and put themselves in harms way, or at a disadvantage. .

           The world needs more of you…very quickly

           Everyone else who deludes themselves….examine inside, you ‘all know’ what must be done to halt the death/abuse frameworks…because they’re coming for ‘everything’

           “If you tolerate this, then your children will be next”
           • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1.1

             19 May 2017 at 9:14 pm

             Oh, fucking bullshit.

             Firstly, we live in a democracy. Our bureaucracy answers to the elected ministers. Otherwise it’s not a democracy.

             Secondly, every individual has to make their own call on how much they can do. Mike King made a solid decision, and good on him for it. But I’m not going to judge the support staff and bureaucrats who try to take the best possible plan they can past a minister who doesn’t give a flying fuck and doesn’t want his government to address the problem.

             Alternatively, you’ll approve of bureaucrats subverting democracy as long as you agree with them, but you haven’t realised that it will eventuate in someone doing something you disagree with and you don’t even get the opportunity to vote against them.

             But all this is a digression, and you write like someone whose biggest moral crisis was “toast or corn flakes for breakfast?” It’s very bold of you to demand that others throw down their careers in circumstances of which you obviously have no knowledge.
             • One Two …

               19 May 2017 at 9:55 pm

               “Digression”. …

               Of course it’s not!, but keep throwing insults and deflecting yet..again

               I “understand all’ circumstances because I have been, have seen have heard, have lived. Therefore I can imagine what the very worst case scenarious equate to even if I’ve not ‘lived that’ particular scenario. Because ‘life’

               Walking in anothers shoes through thought, prayer, meditation and imagination…every single day lucky enough to have the opportunity ‘of this life’ to do so, and learn grow and give back

               Of course there are shades and degrees…but that’s ultimately not going to stop the rampant abuse, it ultimately endorses it, and enables the propagation of it

               You don’t get it, that’s ok. These are my thoughts, my levels!
               • McFlock …

                 19 May 2017 at 10:01 pm

                 🙄
   • David Mac 7.2

     19 May 2017 at 6:59 pm

     I caught Mike talking on the wireless about what got his goat and it was the issues you raise Mrs Brillo. He said he was keen to see a goal of zero suicides per year adopted. He relinquished his idealistic number and was under the impression that the tools to reduce the number by 20% would be highlighted and implemented.

     He suggested to achieve this we review and discover what programs are working and stoke the fires under them. Pretty basic stuff assumed Mike.

     I saw the document on TV, it looks like the manual for a Jumbo Jet, page after page of how great we’re going to be. HOW? Yells Mike.

     I feel a bit this way about Whanau Ora, it has contracted agencies that are kicking big goals. Shouldn’t we be looking at what’s working and give it a push along. It seems such a logical way to improve outcomes, I feel Mike’s frustration.
8. Whispering Kate 8

   19 May 2017 at 3:48 pm

   Mike King way saying that people found at the bottom of cliffs, people who had drugs or alcohol in their bodies and had left a note, or obvious car road crashes were not included in the official stats. This is a disgraceful state of mismanagement and total disregard for the serious state of the nation’s mental health. This lot in government are a callous god awful bunch of wankers.

   We have the power at the polling booth so let us hope and pray we all exercise it wisely this year and get rid of this awful shameful lot.
   • greywarshark 8.1

     22 May 2017 at 11:58 am

     Whispering Kate
     “This is an unforgiveable state of deliberate mismanagement of sensitive but vital information and statistics….” FIFY

     And I endorse: ” This lot in government are a callous god awful bunch of wankers. “
9. JC 9

   19 May 2017 at 9:51 pm

   “Doctors angry at ‘secret’ Westport deal”

   “Angry West Coast senior doctors say the Government’s plans for a public/private partnership to fund Westport’s new integrated family health centre (IFHC) will suck millions of dollars from health care.
   They vented their fury about the ‘secret’ deal today less than an hour before a public/private deal involving the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) was confirmed.”

   “The deal is being brokered by a so-called partnership group, on behalf of the Government, and the DHB has been sidelined in the whole process.”

   https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast/doctors-angry-secret-westport-deal

   “If this deal proceeds, over time it will strip millions of dollars from health care on the West Coast – yet there’s been no transparency or public consultation. It’s a secret deal being pushed through, with the DHB expected to live with the consequences.

   WTF! The Blighted Future!

   http://morganfoundation.org.nz/childrens-mental-wellbeing-income-wealth-deprivation/

   None of us are untouched by mental health we can all demand better for children

   “Mental health disorders touch all of us in some way. Many of us have personal experience or a family member or friend who has struggled with mental health issues (whether we were aware of it or not). New Zealanders from all over the political spectrum have spoken bravely of their own experiences. It is the job of any Government to ensure all New Zealand citizens are getting what they need to be well, based on what we know works. Children need the best we can give them, to ensure they have a good chance to experience a life free from the burden of low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and self-harm. We know what works, lets insist it gets done.”
10. greywarshark 10

    22 May 2017 at 11:54 am

    Johnny Cash
    When it comes to existentialist failure: Johnny Cash reveals the pain in this song, ‘Hurt’.
    The thoughts, memories and knowledge that must be suppressed so we can go on living positively and hopeful for good. We must let them in only in a controlled trickle or we are at risk of being swept away by depression. Love one another as I have loved you. Jesus Christ (and he doesn’t say that you have to be ‘Christian’ to do this. And those who are unloveable, be wary of and try to treat them fairly.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

    JOHNNY CASH LYRICS
    “Hurt”
    (originally by Nine Inch Nails)
    from AZLyrics

    I hurt myself today
    To see if I still feel
    I focus on the pain
    The only thing that’s real
    The needle tears a hole
    The old familiar sting
    Try to kill it all away
    But I remember everything

    [Chorus:]
    What have I become
    My sweetest friend
    Everyone I know goes away
    In the end
    And you could have it all
    My empire of dirt
    I will let you down
    I will make you hurt

    I wear this crown of thorns
    Upon my liar’s chair
    Full of broken thoughts
    I cannot repair
    Beneath the stains of time
    The feelings disappear
    You are someone else
    I am still right here

    [Chorus:]
    What have I become
    My sweetest friend
    Everyone I know goes away
    In the end
    And you could have it all
    My empire of dirt
    I will let you down
    I will make you hurt

    If I could start again
    A million miles away
    I would keep myself
    I would find a way

    and Gonna Cut you Down
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc

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