Tertiary education: keep it public

24 comments on “Tertiary education: keep it public ”

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1. greywarshark 1

   9 June 2017 at 12:11 pm

   Done plus two.
2. tc 2

   9 June 2017 at 1:20 pm

   The gutting of institutions will continue till the haters and wreckers get turfed from office.

   goldsmith is a nastier version of his mentor, john banks.
3. Sorrwerdna 3

   9 June 2017 at 2:40 pm

   “A privatised tertiary education system, subsidised with public money, only benefits its owners”. Bollocks – a very small amount of research will show that private sector students achieve equal if not better course, qualification, retention and progression results when compared alongside the public sector. This is just union inspired dribble.
   • mpledger 3.1

     9 June 2017 at 3:02 pm

     How the Government Lets For-Profit Colleges Rip Off Students and Taxpayers
     “Why did the federal bureaucrat tell the for-profit college it should try to sell more shampoo? The question sounds like the opening line of a joke, but there’s no punchline here. Instead, the answer is part of the story of how predatory for-profit colleges continue to be rewarded with billions of dollars of federal taxpayer money despite repeated evidence that they provide a low-quality education at inflated prices.”
     http://time.com/money/4308023/how-the-government-lets-for-profit-colleges-rip-off-students-and-taxpayers/

     For-profit colleges have been a disaster in the States. They target poor people via phone solicitation with unrealistic promises who get left with useless qualifications and huge debt … and that’s if they make it to the finish like. And then they close leaving people stranded without qualifications and huge debt.
     • Sorrwerdna 3.1.1

       9 June 2017 at 3:11 pm

       earth to mpledger -this is NZ we live in not the US. The system of rules, regulation and compliance that surrounds the education sector in NZ goes along towards preventing this from happening here.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

         9 June 2017 at 3:26 pm

         And what we’ve seen of charter schools in NZ matches what’s happening in the US. In fact, they seem to be an even rip bigger off.
         • Sorrwerdna 3.1.1.1.1

           9 June 2017 at 3:51 pm

           What have we seen with Charter Schools?? (aside from Whangaruru)
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1

             9 June 2017 at 3:58 pm

             https://thestandard.org.nz/charter-schools-fiddling-their-results/
             https://thestandard.org.nz/charter-schools-f/
             https://thestandard.org.nz/nrt-charter-schools-are-corrupt/
             https://thestandard.org.nz/charter-schools-a-failed-idea/
             https://thestandard.org.nz/all-aboard-the-charter-schools-gravy-train/

             The evidence is pretty solid that they’re a bad idea. Same as with private education in general.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.2

     9 June 2017 at 3:05 pm

     a very small amount of research will show that private sector students achieve equal if not better course, qualification, retention and progression results when compared alongside the public sector.

     Then you’ll be able to provide that research won’t you?

     Meanwhile, in the real world:

     It is often assumed that private schools do a better job educating children than public schools, but a new book, “The Public School Advantage,” which is being published this week, shows this isn’t the case. Here’s a piece the authors, Christopher Lubienski, a professor in the Department of Educational Organization and Leadership at the College of Education at University of Illinois, and Sarah Theule Lubienski, professor of mathematics education in the College of Education at the University of Illinois. The Lubienskis looked at two huge datasets of student mathematics performance and found that public school students outperform private school ones, when adjusted for demographics.
     • Sorrwerdna 3.2.1

       9 June 2017 at 3:15 pm

       Here you go Draco – everything you didn’t want to know about performance
       http://www.tec.govt.nz/funding/funding-and-performance/performance/teo/ptes/
       • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

         9 June 2017 at 3:24 pm

         And that tells me absolutely nothing. After all, we need to see the educational achievement against similar public education.

         And when I say educational achievement I’m asking if those courses that are done by PTEs are as good as the ones done by in the public sector. Because the evidence shows that they don’t come close because of the private sector not keeping up with modern educational standards.
         • Sorrwerdna 3.2.1.1.1

           9 June 2017 at 3:36 pm

           Draco -the website in that link I provided will also access performance for Unis, Wananga’s and Polys.
           “evidence shows that they don’t come close because of the private sector not keeping up with modern educational standards” – do you have this evidence??
           It is the role of NZQA to ensure consistency across all sectors for equivalent qualifications -sure there have been some dubious operators in the past but the industry is now even more heavily regulated to prevent it happening again.
           • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1.1

             9 June 2017 at 3:53 pm

             “evidence shows that they don’t come close because of the private sector not keeping up with modern educational standards” – do you have this evidence??

             Posted in my original link. I really doubt that it would be any different in NZ considering National’s implementation of National Standards and charter schools that showed all indications of being based around 19th century schooling.

             It is the role of NZQA to ensure consistency across all sectors for equivalent qualifications -sure there have been some dubious operators in the past but the industry is now even more heavily regulated to prevent it happening again.

             So it’s costing us even more and charter schools are showing us that those regulations aren’t working too well…

             Oh, wait, charter schools aren’t regulated and, are in fact, specifically removed from the same regulations as state schools. They don’t have to do National Standards nor do they have to have trained teachers.

             Now, why would that be you reckon?
             • Sorrwerdna …

               9 June 2017 at 4:12 pm

               The Charter school model is working extremely well in NZ. I would think that deep down a large number of public sector teachers have an appreciation for them in knowing that they have taken the nuisance students off their hands so they can focus on their better students.
               The benefit of the NZ qualification system for the PTE sector is that it allows achievement of National and NZ Certificates/Diplomas/Degrees in multiple subject areas from Level 1-7 without the need to be a degree trained teacher.
             • Sorrwerdna …

               9 June 2017 at 4:16 pm

               NZQA works on a cost recovery model for all PTE’s
           • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1.2

             9 June 2017 at 4:03 pm

             Draco -the website in that link I provided will also access performance for Unis, Wananga’s and Polys.

             Then you’ll be able to provide the research that shows just how well the education compares.

             Although, I think you’re just going to keep on distracting from the fact that you can’t back up your belief.
             • Sorrwerdna …

               9 June 2017 at 4:14 pm

               I’m not exactly sure what further research you need to compare between the Public & Private sectors -are the performance results not enough?
               • Drowsy M. Kram …

                 9 June 2017 at 7:04 pm

                 You assert @ 3.1.1 that ‘this’ couldn’t happen in NZ!

                 Get real – do you work in the NZ tertiary education sector (industry)? NZ’s system of rules, regulations and compliance (you approve?) certainly doesn’t PREVENT greed, corruption and unethical behaviour from flourishing, but it does occasionally detect the tip of a growing iceberg.

                 http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/330899/private-tertiary-institution-closed-after-widespread-plagiarism

                 http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/323018/nzqa-shuts-down-auckland-tertiary-institution
                 • Sorrwerdna …

                   12 June 2017 at 12:56 pm

                   Drowsy – Yes I am involved in the tertiary sector. You will find the majority of issues relate to the international education sector or new comers to the industry who lack the experience. You will also be pleased to know that a lot of private providers are owned by non-profit trusts.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 9 June 2017 at 7:21 pm

                 You haven’t provided the performance results nor, especially, the academic comparisons.

                 You’re just insisting the everyone believes your unfounded beliefs despite all the evidence that proves those beliefs wrong.
                 • Sorrwerdna …

                   12 June 2017 at 12:51 pm

                   Sorry Draco that you do not appear to be able to extrapolate the performance results from the link I provided. I thought it was extremely straightforward.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     12 June 2017 at 1:05 pm

                     You can’t extrapolate without the data and you simply don’t have the data. What you do have is far too limited to produce any conclusions which means that all your doing is using that limited data to try and prop up your delusional beliefs.
4. saveNZ 4

   9 June 2017 at 7:31 pm

   Unfucking believable. Have the Natz got no shame? Just more dumbing down of the population into our low wage economy and stealing public money for private cronies that is the National party’s agenda.

   They have caused every other crisis from housing to pollution, I guess they want to add tertiary education to the crisis list with their carnage.
   • The New Student 4.1

     10 June 2017 at 2:15 am

     +1

     Public money for Public services.

     If you’re for-profit then go make some instead of expecting a handout

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