The best you can hope for, after the Local Government elections

55 comments on “The best you can hope for, after the Local Government elections ”

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1. esoteric pineapples 1

   11 October 2016 at 8:46 am

   I think Hundterwasser is a massively over-rated artist. He is a poor version of Art Noveau’s Antoni Guadi. Whereas Guadi brought all the elements of colour and form into a beautiful and original cohesive whole where the sum was greater than the parts, Hundterwasser is more like a successful version of your enthusiastic amateur artist who is inspired to do mosaics after being inspired by Guadi, lots of enthusiasm but not much innate talent.

   Still probably a good idea to have a museum as it would attract lots of people who don’t know the difference (and there’s a lot of them) to Whangarei. If Hundterwasser was actually a very good artist, a museum of his art would ironically struggle to attract an audience.
   • Stuart Munro 1.1

     11 October 2016 at 10:03 am

     Do you mean Gaudi? I think Hundertwasser is more environmentally concerned, and concerned with individual creation of living spaces – it is a demotic approach.
   • RedLogix 1.2

     11 October 2016 at 10:15 am

     Yeah I don’t know the difference and will happily pay money to go to a Hundertwasser museum in Whangarei. I like accessibility in my art. And plenty of boobies.
     • Anno1701 1.2.1

       11 October 2016 at 10:22 am

       “And plenty of boobies.”

       +1 !!
       • McFlock 1.2.1.1

         11 October 2016 at 11:57 am

         in art they’re symbolic 🙂
         • Anno1701 1.2.1.1.1

           11 October 2016 at 12:09 pm

           “in art they’re symbolic”

           still boobies tho…
           • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1.1

             11 October 2016 at 12:31 pm

             nope, in art they are depicted in order to communicate vulnerability, honesty, caring, maturity, nourishment, and/or calm, depending on context.

             In derivative, insipid artworks they’re a cheap way to increase the sticker price.

             In erotica they’re “boobies”.
             • Anno1701 …

               12 October 2016 at 2:34 pm

               “nope,”

               uhmm i pretty sure i know what a pair of tits looks like….
               • McFlock …

                 12 October 2016 at 3:02 pm

                 Ah, but what do they mean?

                 Fun times or fibrillation? Solace or solitude? Violence or vulnerability?

                 That’s what makes it art 😉
2. james 2

   11 October 2016 at 9:05 am

   “The best thing to hope for in Whangarei is that they open that Hundterwasser museum inside three years. Just to stick it to to the bogan councillors who tried to kill it.”

   Yep – the best thing the newly elected local government can do is to build something out of spite ignoring all the other things that could make Whangarei a better place to live and work.

   Of course – because you disagree with the councillors who have more exposure to the issues than yourself who decided not go forward with it – best we call them a name as well.
   • Anno1701 2.1

     11 October 2016 at 12:17 pm

     yep because the one thing Whangarei is ABSOLUTELY gagging for is some art , I dontknwo how they have survived o far TBH

     I mean we all know ow much the working classes enjoy a bit of European Art with their Chardonnays..
     • Roflcopter 2.1.1

       11 October 2016 at 12:42 pm

       Some of the best contemporary Māori artists are from up that way, you ignorant troll.
       • left_forward 2.1.1.1

         11 October 2016 at 3:55 pm

         Yes, it would indeed be good if the Hundterwasser project actually did support the development of Māori and community visual arts in Northland, but that doesn’t appear to be central to the project – it’s been about a Hunderterwasser exterior so far, and little about what will go on inside the space. When you consider the recent canning of the very successful art education courses in Hokianga by Northtec (because they didn’t lead to ‘real’ jobs) it doesn’t bode too well.
       • Anno1701 2.1.1.2

         12 October 2016 at 2:32 pm

         [deleted]

         [make a political point if you are going to abuse someone. And given current affairs, that gender-based abusive term is even less tolerated than usual – weka]
         • Anno1701 2.1.1.2.1

           12 October 2016 at 3:42 pm

           affected, over-refined, and ineffectual.

           no longer capable of effective action

           better ?

           Although it appears

           “ignorant troll” is more than acceptable…
3. Lanthanide 3

   11 October 2016 at 9:35 am

   So you had a post before the election, saying why everyone should vote, because the local council impacts on everyone’s daily lives so much. And now you have a post after the election, that basically says nothing much is going to change anywhere.
   • Siobhan 3.1

     11 October 2016 at 10:01 am

     Indeed.
     And this from a person who is politically engaged, knows the issues, knows the players, understands the game.

     No wonder the great unwashed don’t bother voting.

     Though to their credit, ADVANTAGE didn’t take part in yesterday’s conversation about online voting, which quickly deteriorated into a conversation about chopping off the little finger of anyone who didn’t vote.
   • Ad 3.2

     11 October 2016 at 10:06 am

     Kenny Rogers said don’t fall in love with a dreamer.
     • Anno1701 3.2.1

       12 October 2016 at 3:42 pm

       “Kenny Rogers said don’t fall in love with a dreamer”

       he also dropped in to see what condition his condition is in

       mans a genius !
   • McFlock 3.3

     11 October 2016 at 12:07 pm

     Small victories like sewage or museums are change for the better, and long term.

     I actually quite liked the post – the different issues for all the regions, and the small concrete achievements that we can demand of our elected officials in between the big hits like “living wage” policies.

     Improving lives isn’t just about realigning/erasing the monetary system or the entire employer/employee relationship. It’s also about sewage, and water, and art. Potholes and public transport. Things for which we can and should hold our elected representatives accountable, because the business associations sure as shit do it from their end.

     Frankly, the post struck me as being deceptively positive.
     • Lanthanide 3.3.1

       11 October 2016 at 12:13 pm

       My point is that the previous article said we should all vote, because it impacts on our daily lives so much all the small things they have control over, like dog control laws and water quality etc.

       I replied by saying there was no argument as to why would should vote for candidate A over candidate B, because all candidates campaign on the same things – no one campaigns that they will do bad things in office. So it doesn’t really matter who we vote for either way.

       And now this post basically refutes the argument that the first post made, and confirms my reply – none of the small things identified like dog control laws or water quality will change as a result of the elections, the new councils can be assumed to do as good a job as the previous councils on all these points.

       If the previous post had said things like “In Kaipara you should vote for the person most likely to build you a sewerage system”, then fine. But it didn’t say that, it focussed on all the minutia that aren’t going to change anyway.

       And in any event, how do you actually know that someone who says they can build the sewerage plant better, can actually execute on that promise?
       • McFlock 3.3.1.1

         11 October 2016 at 12:24 pm

         Look at the one about the Hundterwasser museum “Just to stick it to to the bogan councillors who tried to kill it”. So yeah, there is hope for a different outcome with different councillors.

         Not everywhere, by any means. But most councils have something that can be done better or differently.

         “And in any event, how do you actually know that someone who says they can build the sewerage plant better, can actually execute on that promise?”
         Well, that’s the eternal conundrum vor voters, and why you turn up to election meetings and look at the different candidates. It’s not perfect, but it lops off the half to a quarter of candidates who are either mad or bad. So you vote for someone who can do better than them.
         • Lanthanide 3.3.1.1.1

           11 October 2016 at 2:38 pm

           “Look at the one about the Hundterwasser museum “Just to stick it to to the bogan councillors who tried to kill it”. So yeah, there is hope for a different outcome with different councillors.”

           So why write a post that says you should vote because local councils control dog park laws and drinking water?

           Why not write a post that says you should vote because local councils can build museums, or not?
           • McFlock 3.3.1.1.1.1

             11 October 2016 at 2:44 pm

             Seriously?
             they’re all the same thing: local and frequently unglamourous issues that can significantly improve the lives portions of the local community. If the elected representatives choose to act in the interests of the community, rather than just the local elite (be it farmers or the local chamber of commerce).
           • Ad 3.3.1.1.1.2

             11 October 2016 at 7:55 pm

             Walk. Chew gum. Amazing!
4. weka 4

   11 October 2016 at 10:32 am

   Thanks for a post that understands the South Island exists Ad 😉
   • Ad 4.1

     11 October 2016 at 1:35 pm

     Delighted.
     (I married into central)
5. KJT 5

   11 October 2016 at 2:44 pm

   The Hundertwasser.
   A costly white elephant that the majority in Whangarei were against, for very good reasons.

   Now happening after a gerrymandered poll where the options were split to ensure the Hundertwasser would go ahead.
   A prime example of a few councillers determined to build a monument, against the majorities common sense assessment.

   And a waste of money that could have been used to build the town basin area up, with some excellent and original plans that we had some years ago, which would have made Whangarei a unique city. Showcasing the Pacific, Māori and local history.

   I rather like Hundertwassers art,. The small folly they are building is quit neat.

   But i am sure that the supporters of cladding an incongruous building Hundertwasser style, will not be paying for it’s inevitable loses when the thousands of extra tourists do not materialise
6. Robert Glennie 6

   11 October 2016 at 3:59 pm

   As a Cantabrian and former ECan staff member, I am more interested in seeing how Nick Smith and John Key react to the ecologists that I and others voted for. We want our rivers back. Recreation contributes $1.7 billion to the New Zealand economy per annum and a significant bit of that comes from water based activities.

   It is true that there might be a prolonged drought ongoing that means some waterways are running lower than usual, but the 100% use of the known ground water resource is definitely not a natural thing. Nor is the degradation of water quality from cows crapping and peeing in them and in irrigation courses. The subsequent increase in nitrates is certainly not a natural thing.
7. Penny Bright 7

   12 October 2016 at 8:43 am

   I shall be increasing the pressure for the LAW to be upheld regarding transparency in the spending of Auckland Council and CCO public monies on private sector consultants and contractors under s.17 of the Public Records Act 2005.

   What I expect Auckland Mayoral Phil Goff to do is to make the following information about spending on consultants and contractors available for public scrutiny on the front page of Auckland Council and CCO websites under ‘Procurement – Awarded Contracts’:

   * The unique contract number.

   * The name of the consultant / contractor.

   * A brief description of the scope of the contract.

   * The contract start / finish dates.

   * The exact dollar value of each and every contract.

   * How the contract was awarded – by direct appointment or public tender.

   The first step, in checking for cost-effectiveness in public spending, is to find out exactly where the costs fall.

   THIS is the first step ….

   Penny Bright

   ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’

   [lprent: This is a central government issue as they are the people charged with changing this type of law. Normally I’d boot this to OpenMike. In this case, it is sort f on topic. So I’m putting it into tomorrow and at the end of this post’s comments to prevent it diverting the comments on this post too much. It should allow those who like arguing about legalities to talk about it, while making sure that people who want to talk about the actual substance of the post can see something less tedious and boring. ]
   • james 7.1

     11 October 2016 at 9:07 am

     Penny – I doubt Mr Goff will be listening to you very much at all.
     • Sacha 7.1.1

       11 October 2016 at 9:54 am

       Not about which law covers the release of information rather than the creation of it, that’s for sure.
   • Stunned Mullet 7.2

     11 October 2016 at 9:26 am

     Mad trout is still mad.
   • Lanthanide 7.3

     11 October 2016 at 9:38 am

     Why would anyone do work with the government, if the cost of their contract will be publicised to all their competitors?

     You know, “commercially sensitive” isn’t always just an umbrella term used as an excuse to hide information from the public.
     • Penny Bright 7.3.1

       11 October 2016 at 9:47 am

       errr…. because it’s the LAW?

       Public Records Act 2005

       http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345729.html

       17. Requirement to create and maintain records

       (1)Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.

       Kind regards

       Penny Bright

       ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’
       • Sacha 7.3.1.1

         11 October 2016 at 9:58 am

         Sigh. For the benefit of new readers (and certainly not because Ms Bright is likely to listen this or any time), the PRA governs the *keeping* of records, not their release. That’s stipulated in the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act (LGOIMA). Like the OIA, it contains exceptions for commercial transactions in some situations, for the reason Lanth has noted.
       • Lanthanide 7.3.1.2

         11 October 2016 at 10:00 am

         Please demonstrate how they are failing to comply with this law.
         • Penny Bright 7.3.1.2.1

           11 October 2016 at 10:23 am

           Seen this?

           This is the Select Committee Report of the Local Government and Environment Select Committee, in response to Petition 2014/33
           which I initiated.

           https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/51DBSCH_SCR69296_1/924613ec7fb831c4e74bd062f73287ac2ceb5081

           The petitioner believes that the transparency of CCO operations would be improved if the Public Records Act 2005, specifically section 17 (Requirement to create and maintain records), was “implemented and enforced in a proper way”.

           The petitioner acknowledged that some Auckland CCOs have made progress towards providing more transparent information.

           She praised Watercare Services Limited for acting on some of her concerns.

           However, she says that more needs to be done.

           In particular, she believes that all Auckland CCOs should clearly and uniformly display information on their websites about the procurement of their awarded contracts.

           She suggests that the following standard information be made readily available to the public:

            the unique contract number

            the name of the consultant or contractor

            a brief description of the scope of the contract

            the start and finish dates for the contract

            the monetary value of the contract (including subcontractors)

            whether the contract was awarded by direct appointment or public tender.

           To require all CCOs to clearly display this information—given that, according to the petitioner, they are not classed as local authorities for the purposes of the Local Government (Rating) Act—the petitioner sees value in making minor legislative changes to one or more of the following Acts: the Local Government Act, the Local Government (Rating) Act, or the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009.

           We asked the petitioner whether she had tried using the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987 to obtain information about contracts.

           The petitioner said that she has not received the level of information that she has requested.

           Usually, this is on the grounds that the information is commercially sensitive.

           The petitioner considers that this information should not be classed as commercially sensitive once a contract has been awarded.

           We note that CCOs are subject to the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act and if people are dissatisfied with the information provided as a result of requests they should seek redress through the Ombudsman.

           Conclusion

           We would like to thank the OAG for its report on the governance and accountability of CCOs.

           The report provided us with useful information that helped us consider Ms Bright’s petition.

           We also would like to thank the petitioner for coming down from Auckland to speak to us about her petition.

           We agree that ratepayers should be able to easily access information about how public money collected through rates is spent.

           We support the petitioner’s plea for transparency and standardisation of the information that Auckland CCOs provide to the public.

           ….”

           Penny Bright

           ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’
           • Lanthanide 7.3.1.2.1.1

             11 October 2016 at 11:03 am

             So no actual evidence that they aren’t complying with the law, merely that a select committee agrees with you that the law should be changed.
             • Sacha …

               11 October 2016 at 11:22 am

               “The petitioner believes” – is all they can politely say about that loopy argument.

               “We support the petitioner’s plea for transparency and standardisation of the information that Auckland CCOs *provide to* the public.” – which relies on using the LGOIMA, not the PRA. Nowhere do the select committee agree with changing the latter law, because they are smarter than that.
               • Lanthanide …

                 11 October 2016 at 11:51 am

                 True, but they also said this:
                 “We agree that ratepayers should be able to easily access information about how public money collected through rates is spent.”
                 • Sacha …

                   11 October 2016 at 1:31 pm

                   Access is controlled by the LGOIMA. The select committee members know that, unlike the petitioner.
     • KJT 7.3.2

       11 October 2016 at 2:48 pm

       If you take on a public contract paid for by rate/tax payers, why should the cost be secret?
       Don’t your employers have a right to know what they are paying?

       That is an invitation for corruption.
       • Sacha 7.3.2.1

         11 October 2016 at 4:32 pm

         It is hard to get the best price for contracted work if you release previous ones. That means poorer use of public money.

         You may be correct about the trade-off between that and corruption, but it’s a basis for the current setup. Some of this stuff goes back to Michael Bassett’s local government changes which reflect the tenor of his libertarian cabal who infested Labour’s cabinet at the time.

         Like many people, I’d prefer to see in-house services except where the expertise sought is genuinely rare or there is a similar sort of advantage like access to knowledge shared across other organisations – that’s sometimes the case with resource management lawyers who work for multiple councils, for instance. Shares the load of keeping up to date with law and policy changes. For smaller councils, that can make a big difference.
         • McFlock 7.3.2.1.1

           11 October 2016 at 4:39 pm

           It is hard to get the best price for contracted work if you release previous ones.

           Why?

           I mean, most tenderers would have a reasonable idea of ballpark price for a given service, and they still don’t know what the other tenders are for the next round.

           And if someone new to the region/industry goes “holy shit, I can do that for half the price”, that can be even better.
           • Sacha 7.3.2.1.1.1

             11 October 2016 at 7:39 pm

             I’m not in procurement. Best ask someone who is why that’s gospel in their world. The fixation on cheapest bid over quality or innovation is a broader problem.
   • Penny Bright 7.4

     11 October 2016 at 10:14 am

     Actually – I think that we’re now far closer to the ‘Rule of Law’ being implemented and enforced regarding transparency in the spending of public monies on private consultants and contractors than ever before.

     What is being unveiled now in the Auckland High Court, is evidence which proves how, in my view, contracting breed$ corruption.

     How can you have proper transparency or accountability without full and accurate public records available for public scrutiny?

     Perhaps you missed this?
     _________________________

     Corruption at council widespread, says Crown

     http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11717850

     “…Dickey said the Court would hear from nearly a dozen former staffers from RDC and Auckland Transport who would show – sometimes reluctantly as they were themselves implicated – that corruption was widespread and had become deep-rooted.

     “The extensive provision of benefits to staff at all levels of their teams resulted in a culture where corruption flourished and was normalised, with no questions asked,” he said.

     “There was very little chance of disgruntled or principled employees speaking out as everyone was being ‘looked after’ or was compromised.”

     Kind regards

     Penny Bright

     ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’
     • One Anonymous Bloke 7.4.1

       11 October 2016 at 11:22 am

       In summation, Penny Bright has now correctly predicted 200 out of 1 case of corruption.
     • Anno1701 7.4.2

       11 October 2016 at 12:19 pm

       you really need to change the

       “‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’”

       to

       “SELF APPOINTED ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’”

       the former is misleading…
       • Lanthanide 7.4.2.1

         11 October 2016 at 2:39 pm

         I think all ‘watchdogs’ are self-appointed, otherwise they’d have actual titles / offices.
       • KJT 7.4.2.2

         11 October 2016 at 3:27 pm

         Just as well we have ‘self appointed’ watchdogs.

         The paid ones are obviously failing us.
         • Sacha 7.4.2.2.1

           11 October 2016 at 4:33 pm

           How do you think those council staff ended up in court?
           • Ad 7.4.2.2.1.1

             11 October 2016 at 7:52 pm

             They got there because an exceptionally smart and diligent senior staff member at AT figured out something felt wrong, did their job launching a long and detailed investigation, came to a set of conclusions, and handed it to the Serious Fraud Office.

             Systems works.

             Penny Bright not needed.
             • Sacha …

               11 October 2016 at 8:08 pm

               Case progress: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11726811
             • KJT …

               11 October 2016 at 9:16 pm

               Hasn’t worked for hotels in the Pacific and many other examples of contracts, legislation or assets for sale.

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